HOMEBREW Digest #2425 Fri 23 May 1997

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		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com

  Reusing Yeast (Tumarkin)
  Keg Priming plus (PAUL W HAAF JR)
  partial boil extract brews too dark ("Charles L. Ehlers")
  Tinseth hop curve (Jeremy Bergsman)
  Stuck Fermentation (Aaron Kelley)
  headspace (smurman)
  Homebrew shops in Cleveland ("Braam Greyling")
  Headspace & carbonation ("Dave Draper")
  Re: Carbonator Attachments (guym)
  RE: Carbonator problems ("Bridges, Scott")
  RE: Bottle Headspace ("Jeff Hailey")
  Shiner Bock (KennyEddy)
  beer bottle pressure (James R. Layton 972.952.3718 JLAY)
  Force Carbonating at Room Temp/ S=Eric Fouch? (RANDY ERICKSON)
  Re: Spam, spam, spam, spam ("Mark A. Baur")
  AHA NHC 1st Round Chicago - RESULTS ("Roger Deschner  ")
  Draft Systems Kegs/Grolsch Hops-New Homebrewing Books/ Little Apple Brewing ("Rob Moline")
  first all grain low O.G. (Thomas Kramer)
  Need source for propane burner (Ken Johnson)
  HBD Moderation Guidelines (Some guy)
  Bottle Headspace (Aaron Kelley)
  Re:Inverted Carboy Fermenter (Kelly Jones)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 19:39:35 -0400 From: Tumarkin at ix.netcom.com Subject: Reusing Yeast Tim Dugan writes: >I am fortunate enough to be able to brew on two consecutive weekends. >I would like to reuse my yeast from last weekend, this weekend. Can I >simply rack off my first batch to the secondary, and put the second >batch right onto the trub and yeast from the first batch? Or should I >go through the process and was the yeast with sterile water as >described in the Yeast FAQ? I have been doing exactly that on a fairly regular basis. I don't think it is necessary to wash the yeast - that is more important if you plan on storing it rather than reusing it at once. Aerate the second batch as well as you can. It absolutely assures a great starter. Usually I brew a similar style for the second batch. This is also a goodmeans for preparing the yeast to brew a high gravity beer such as anImperial Stout or Barleywine. I have never done it for more than two batches in a row, but I'm sure that this could be extended safely for a larger number of batches - as long as you are careful with sanitation. Eric Tepe asks about the yeast in the Rogue Shakespeare Stout being the brewing yeast or a conditioning yeast. Sorry, I don't have an answer to that but it brings to mind a couple of related yeast questions. First, is there a commercial equivalent of Rogue's PacMan yeast? And second, what commercial yeasts are good choices for conditioning yeasts? And lastly, what general conditions or beer styles call for conditioning yeasts? Mark Tumarkin The Brewery in the Jungle Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 22:30:21 EDT From: haafbrau1 at juno.com (PAUL W HAAF JR) Subject: Keg Priming plus I'm about to keg a Weisse-Peche, and I think I may have made a tad more than 5 gal. Since I will probably have to bottle a Qt. or two, has anybody tried adding priming sugar to the fermenter and then transfering to keg? This way I can just move to bottles when the keg is full. I plan on doing this friday night, so an RSVP would be helpful. Private e-mail is also OK. Thanks in advance. A man's got to believe in something, I believe I'll have another beer! Paul Haaf haafbrau1 at juno.com Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 21:45:32 -0500 From: "Charles L. Ehlers" <clehlers at flinthills.com> Subject: partial boil extract brews too dark Dana Brigham, dbrigham at nsf.gov , on Mon, 19 May 97 11:40:01 EST writes: "I currently boil my extract/partial mash batches in 3 gallon volumes (5 gallon final recipe volume) due to limited overhead space on the stove. I use a 'generic' stainless stock pot, and I have fitted one of those cast iron 'hot plates' to the front 8" burner on my electric range. The hot plate thing does a real good job at evenly distributing the heat (and it stays hot for a *LONG* time after the burner is off). But I am consistently getting darker batches than I plan on. There is some caramelization of the sugars on the bottom of the pot - but not too much, at least to my untrained eye. I do try to stir often (but not constantly) and I do full 60 minute boils. I assume (since most don't say) that the recipes I find in the Internet, homebrew mags and my books are generally for a full 5 gallon boil. So - without cutting back on body/flavor adding ingredients, how can I 'lighten up' the color of my homebrew given my current constraints of not enough room for a pot big enough to do a full 5 gallon boil?" >From my experience (five years--not that much but not insignificant) it's not easy to get a light colored extract brews unless you're using nothing but extra light dried malt extract. Even then, adding grains will darken it. I don't think your "problem" is carmelization or the length of the boil. Any batch I've brewed using malt extract syrup has always been gold colored at the lightest. Extra light DME and nothing else except honey or rice syrup can get you a light, straw colored brew. However, I've learned, and am teaching my friends, that you shouldn't necessarily judge a beer by its color. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 20:16:57 -0700 From: Jeremy Bergsman <jeremybb at leland.Stanford.EDU> Subject: Tinseth hop curve I wrote: > As far as I can > tell, the shape of Tinseth's curve is assumed, not measured, which > suggests to me that he has done his measurements with early additions. In private email Glenn informed me that his curves are based on both literature (which is what I figured) and experiment (which I didn't figure). (I hope that isn't a nettequitte violation!) One point that came up was that he makes sure to stir in his hops. Failure to do this might be responsible for some lag in utilization. I think I stirred them in (I usually do). Anyway, time for more data! - -- Jeremy Bergsman jeremybb at leland.stanford.edu http://www-leland.stanford.edu/~jeremybb Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 23:16:59 -0500 (CDT) From: Aaron Kelley <akelley at cems.umn.edu> Subject: Stuck Fermentation Well, I have run into my first stuck fermentation. I brewed a Smoked Porter with the Wyeast Swedish Porter Ale yeast (#?). OG was 1.060. After a week and a half ferment at 60F the bubbling was down to about every two minutes so I racked to secondary. I realize now that gas evolution is not a sure sign of the completion of fermentation, but it has worked fine for my previous 20 or so batches. Anyway, I dropped the secondary temperature down to 46 for a week ( the beer actually got down to about 37F on the cooldown before I adjusted the refrigerator). I was all prepared to bottle tonight when I took a specific gravity reading. 1.030 is still way too high. I expect it to finish in the 1.015 range. After about one gallon was transferred to the bottling bucket I caught the gravity problem. I promptly transferred back to the secondary. A yeast sediment had formed on the bottom of the carboy. I shook up the carboy as best I could and plan to finish the fermentation upstairs at around 68-70F. Is this adequate to reinitiate fermentation? Will I have to repitch yeast? I guess I will have to wait a day or so to see if fermentation resumes. Has anyone else had problems with this yeast? Did I ferment it too cold. Aaron Kelley Chemical Engineer and Graduate Student Biological Process Technology Institute Department of Chemical Engineering and Material Science University of Minnesota akelley at cems.umn.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 00:14:44 -0700 From: smurman at best.com Subject: headspace David R. Burley wrote: > > Now, I also believe the observations made by responsible observers, so how > do I square these above physical truths with the apparently contradictory > belief that partially filled bottles can be over carbonated? As I read Dave's post I had some thoughts. I agree that it doesn't make sense that a partially filled bottle will create more CO2, but that's the effect I saw, and that's what prompted me to post in the first place; I couldn't square the result with the theory. I have a feeling what we're seeing is not a difference in CO2 saturation, but rather a difference in pressure in the bottle. The higher pressure must equilibriate instantly with the atmospheric pressure. As I mentioned in my original post, this can in some cases even lead to weak shock waves in the bottle neck. This pressure equalization could be causing the severe CO2 expulsion we're seeing. Think of it as similar to pouring a beer quietly and simply dumping a beer into a glass. Which beer would you observe to have more CO2? The violently poured beer would create more foam even though we know both beers are primed at the same rate, and both would have the same amount of CO2 in solution. Aaron Kelley wrote: > The difference may be the oxygen in the headspace. The underfilled > bottle has much more oxygen available than a regular or overfilled > bottle. If the yeast are able to use this oxygen they will degrade > the sugar oxidatively, producing 6 molecules of CO2 per sugar > molecule. When oxygen is not present, yeast must use the fermentative > pathway and produce only 2 CO2 molecules per sugar molecule. This is not really the case. Yeast *much* prefer the fermentative pathway, so if there is any sugar available they will ferment whether or not there is oxygen present or not. Since the primed bottle contains sugar the yeast will not undergo any respiration. The idea that adding oxygen at pitching aids the yeast in their respiration phase is an oft-repeated fallacy. There was an article on this by Tracy Aquila in one of the recent brewing rags. I'm beginning to wish I hadn't been so quick to relieve the pressure on my batch of bottle bombs so that I could do some experiments. SM (that's smurman to you) Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 14:21:34 +200 From: "Braam Greyling" <braam.greyling at azona.co.za> Subject: Homebrew shops in Cleveland Hi Can somebody send me the adress of a homebrew shop in Cleveland that supply Wyeast ? Another friend of mine is going to Cleveland only and he said he will bring me back some Wyeast to South Africa. TIA Braam Greyling I.C. Design Engineer Azona(Pty)Ltd tel +27 12 6641910 fax +27 12 6641393 You can taste a good beer with one sip, but it is better to make thoroughly sure. Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 08:43:20 -6 From: "Dave Draper" <ddraper at utdallas.edu> Subject: Headspace & carbonation Dear Friends, In all these posts discussing the apparent observation of overcarbonation in underfilled bottles, I cannot help but wonder: are people *sure* that it is the *beer* that has a perceived excess of CO2 in it, or are they mistaking the much greater "hiss" when the cap is pried off a low-fill bottle for carbonation? Do these underfilled bottles show greater "fizz" of exsolving CO2 from the beer? In my experience, which I will admit right out was not gained through any systematic exploration of this question, the answer is No. Beers appear to me to have very similar CO2 contents, but the hiss is much louder when the bottle is, say, half filled compared to the normal level (like many, I package every drop I can get out of the batch, regardless of how low the fill is in my last bottle). Perhaps there is something more complicated going on, but Occam's Razor compels me to ask this anyway. In other news, I have received exactly one response to my earlier call for data on fill levels in kegs, and one suggested explanation without any data, so nothing to report on that yet. Cheers, Dave in Dallas - --- ***************************************************************************** Dave Draper, Dept Geosciences, U. Texas at Dallas, Richardson TX 75083 ddraper at utdallas.edu Home page: http://hbd.org/~ddraper Beer page: http://hbd.org/~ddraper/beer.html ...yeast contain the mechanism of their own destruction. ---Charlie Scandrett Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 22 May 97 09:05:44 MDT From: guym at Exabyte.COM Subject: Re: Carbonator Attachments Chas Peterson <CNS_PETERSON at msn.com> writes, > I'm a little frustrated with my "Carbonator" cap (made by Liquid > Bread <snip> > I bought two of these things and both have a nasty habit of the > poppet valve breaking loose from the inside of the carbonator.<snip> > I'm considering using some marine goop or super-glue on the thing. > But is anyone else out there having similar troubles? If not I may > simply return the > product and request a replacement. Chas, I have a Carbonator Cap and it has always worked flawlessly. I have used it to carbonate thousands (well O.K., maybe hundreds) of bottles of beer, water, Kool Aid, flat soda, home made soda, etc. and it has never failed me yet. It sounds like you may have a couple of defective units (I seem to recall hearing some rumblings of a defective run of these things a while back). I'd recommend returning them to the store you purchased them from for replacement (they should be glad to replace them) or directly to Liquid Bread if the store won't do it. -- Guy McConnell /// Huntersville, NC /// guym at exabyte.com /// CoralReefer at compuserve.com /// "Give me oysters and beer, for dinner every day of the year and I'll feel fine..." Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 22 May 97 09:43:00 EDT From: "Bridges, Scott" <bridgess at mmsmtp.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM> Subject: RE: Carbonator problems Chas wrote: >I'm a little frustrated with my "Carbonator" cap (made by Liquid Bread, it >allows you to inject CO2 into a PET bottle or attach a mini-tap to your >regulator). I bought two of these things and both have a nasty habit of the >poppet valve breaking loose from the inside of the carbonator. That is, there >is a small plastic ring that supports the poppet valve against the force of >the CO2 ball-lock attachment from the regulator. This ring appears to simply >"snap" in place, but breaks free when I connect it to the CO2 source (this is >a real PIA -- poppet valve falls into filled PET bottle, beer gets flat, >etc....) > >I'm considering using some marine goop or super-glue on the thing. But is >anyone else out there having similar troubles? If not I may simply return the >product and request a replacement. Chas, I'm posting this instead of emailing it, since others may have this same problem. I encountered this exact same problem last summer. After fuming about it for a while, and trying to figger out how to fix it, I just decided to contact the supplier who sold it to me and return it. He put me in touch with Liquid Bread, the manufacturer. Apparently, they had some quality control problem with a particular batch of these. It is defective, and I don't believe that it's fixable. They gave me a return address to send it back. They replaced it free of charge, and also threw in a second one for my trouble. I consider that to be a good response to the problem. Scott Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 22 May 97 09:00:34 EDT From: "Jeff Hailey" <jeff_hailey at ccmail.eo.ray.com> Subject: RE: Bottle Headspace Aaron Kelley states: >>First, let me try and dispel a myth. For all practical purposes, >>water is an incompressible fluid. This makes it impossible to >>kill yeast by overpressurizing a bottle. The yeast will only >>"feel" atmospheric pressure no matter what the pressure is in >>the headspace of the bottle. To prove to yourself that water >>is incompressible, try taking a syringe filled with water and >>no air. Plug the end and try to press the plunger. It is >>impossible to compress the liquid. This is ABSOLUTELY NOT TRUE! Yes, water is basically incompressable. However, compressability only deals with the change in volume versus the change in pressure. By pressing on the syringe's plunger, you are changeing the pressure of the water in the syringe, but not the volume -- hence the incompressablity of water. Ask anyone who has ever been diving about water pressure. Your ears start to feel the pressure in as little as a couple of feet. Divers get the bends from the solubility of nitrogen at increased pressures. Yeast under pressure will surely feel something -- and I guarantee that it won't be atmospheric pressure. Cheers! Jeff Hailey Brewing in Tulsa, OK Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 10:02:45 -0400 (EDT) From: KennyEddy at aol.com Subject: Shiner Bock Lou Heavner asks about the "bock" from that lil' ol' brewery in Shiner. St Patrick's of Texas (512-832-9045, no affiliation, blah blah blah) sells a partial-mash kit for "Texas Bock" which is described this way in their catalog: 1.5 lb crushed munich 10L 1 lb maize 1/8 lb crushed black patent 4 lb pale syrup extract 1 oz Cluster (bittering) 1/2 oz Hallertau (finishing) 2178 Lager Blend yeast I have not made this recipe so I can't comment on its accuracy, but it certainly looks reasonable. One would of course mash the first three ingredients before adding the extract. Substitute 5 lb American 2-row malt for the extract if all-graining. This recipe yields about a 1.041 SG (assuming 75% efficiency; typical kitchen-kludge partial-mashing might yield lower results). ***** Ken Schwartz El Paso, TX KennyEddy at aol.com http://members.aol.com/kennyeddy Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 10:09:06 -0500 From: layton at sc45.dseg.ti.com (James R. Layton 972.952.3718 JLAY) Subject: beer bottle pressure Aaron Kelly posted: >First, let me try and dispel a myth. For all practical purposes, water >is an incompressible fluid. Agreed. >This makes it impossible to kill yeast by overpressurizing a bottle. Maybe so. I don't know. >The yeast will only "feel" atmospheric pressure no matter what the >pressure is in the headspace of the bottle. This is not correct. Yeast in a sealed bottle of beer will "feel" a pressure equal to the headspace pressure plus a hydraulic pressure which is proportional to the depth at which any particular yeast cell happens to be at. Atmospheric pressure has no effect, it is on the outside of the bottle. Ever swim to the bottom of a 12 ft deep pool? Zero compressibility does not mean zero pressure gradient. Just for fun I calculated the pressure at a depth of 7 inches in a carbonated bottle of beer. I assumed a temperature of 40F, a carbonation level of 2.5 volumes, and an SG of 1.010. >From a chart on force carbonating kegged beer, 2.5 volumes at 40F will mean there is about 12.3 psi pressure in the headspace of the beer. Using an equation which relates fluid pressure to specific gravity and depth I calculated an additional pressure of 0.255 psi. Therefore, a yeast cell near the bottom of a 12 oz longneck bottle full of beer will see approximatly 12.3 + 0.3 = 12.6 psi (gauge pressure). OK, so what? I don't know, I just can't help myself sometimes. I figure that while we are following these advanced academic topics we should challenge posts containing wrong or misleading information. No flame intended. I found the oxidative reduction vs. fermentation question very interesting. Thanks Aaron, I look forward to reading responses to this theory. Jim Layton (Howe, TX) Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 09:35:15 -0700 From: RANDY ERICKSON <RANDYE at mid.org> Subject: Force Carbonating at Room Temp/ S=Eric Fouch? Badger Roullett asks about force carbonating at different temperatures: >>> my questions are... 1) if you carbonate at room temp, what shoudl the co2 settings be? 2) if you carbonate at lower temps (ie. sticking my 3 gallon kegs in the frig) and then take it out. what happens? will i lose the carbonation? 3) if i carbonate at room temp, and then chill to serve what happens? do i lose the carb? <<< For starters, get a hold of the CO2 carbonation table at the Brewery: http://alpha.rollanet.org:80/library/CO2charts.html Basically the pressure you need to apply is a function (second order?, quadratic?) of the temperature and the desired carbonation level, expressed in volumes of CO2. So for a typical carbonation level of 2.5 Volumes of CO2, you would apply 10 psi at 36 degrees F, but you would need 30 psi at 72 degrees for the same degree of carbonation. You don't _lose_ carbonation at any temperature, unless you have a leak in your system. Much more CO2 will dissolve in your beer at a lower temperature so I guess there is some economy (of gas) involved in carbonating at lower temperatures. (Never mind the cost of refrigeration, those of us who rely on the revenues of power companies for our livelihood thank you, trust me). Recall that there are two commonly used definitions of "force carbonation" used in the HBD as well. One camp considers anything other than natural priming to be force carbonation, while the other uses the term to reflect the process of hooking up the CO2 and forcing it to carbonate by shaking the keg until no more gas will dissolve. The "hook it up and leave it alone" process takes days, the "shake like hell" method takes minutes. When I'm not it a great hurry, I favor the leave it alone method. Just be sure to consult the chart to make sure you're in the right pressure range for the temperature the beer is at. ********** Eric Fouch: What the hell is your e-mail address? That junk in your header is undecipherable, at least to me. I found some info on the Lucy event if you're still looking. Cheers, Randy in Modesto Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 08:59:16 -0700 From: "Mark A. Baur" <baur at hpcvlx.cv.hp.com> Subject: Re: Spam, spam, spam, spam The answer to your question lies here, haafbrau1: http://spam.abuse.net/spam/others/simplespam.html Mark A. Baur baur at cv.hp.com TCC-CVL Software Integration T/N: 541-715-7579 Hewlett Packard, Corvallis Visualization Lab Desk: 5UP8 Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 11:43:40 CDT From: "Roger Deschner " <U52983 at UICVM.UIC.EDU> Subject: AHA NHC 1st Round Chicago - RESULTS We have (finally) tabulated the results of judging 824 entries last weekend here in Chicago. Congratulations to the winners, listed below. A big thank-you to the legions of judges who came to Chicago, despite the total lack of hotel rooms, to help us out. Also, special thanks to our capable corps of stewards, without whose skills, confusion would have reigned with so many entries. And it couldn't have been done without Assistant Organizers Tom Fitzpatrick and Brad Reeg, or the tireless efforts of numerous other Chicago Beer Society members who stepped forward for unpacking, data entry, and housing out-of-town judges in their homes. This event was the largest single homebrew competition ever held in the Midwest, and perhaps anywhere in the world outside of the State of Texas. (Judges: Your points have already been sent to the BJCP.) We've also got to recognize our gracious host site - Goose Island Beer Company's microbrewery. (not the brewpub). The brightly-lit bottling room turned out to be perfect for judging, and the machinery was a good backdrop for some unusual photos. Thank them by going out and buying more Goose Island beer! Good luck to these winners in the Second Round in Cleveland! Roger Deschner University of Illinois at Chicago rogerd at uic.edu Aliases: u52983 at uicvm.uic.edu R.Deschner at uic.edu =============== "Civilization was CAUSED by beer." ===================== ====Chicago Region Director, 1997 AHA National Homebrew Competitiion==== PLACE BREWER(S) CLUB Barley Wine 1 Brian St. Clair Bloatarian 2 John Kleczewski Headhunters 3 Chuck Boyce Bloatarian Belgian & French Ale 1 Larry D. Gray Bloatarian 2 Chris De Podesta, Karen De Podesta 3 Thomas Peroulas, Daniel Juliano Boneyard UZZ Belgian-Style Lambic 1 Bert Zelten Green Bay 2 Larry D. Gray Bloatarian 3 Al Korzonas Chi Beer Soc Mild & Brown Ale 1 Michael P. Seachrist 2 Bill Pfeiffer Ann Arbor 3 David M. Johnson First Draft English-Style Pale Ale 1 David Allaben Foam Blowers 2 Joseph Styke, Tom Stawarz 3 Kevin Kutskill American-Style Ale 1 Greg Grosklos 2 Paul Kerchefske Sin City 3 Mike Rivard Chi Beer Soc English Bitter 1 Douglas Bloss 2 Valdymar Kopec 3 Philip Venzke Scottish Ale 1 Nick Schroeder 2 Carl Regenfelder Beer Barons 3 Scott Taxman Porter 1 Stephen Klump Ann Arbor 2 Philip Gravel Urban Knaves 3 Todd Grantham English & Scottish Strong Ale 1 Chuck Wettergreen Headhunters 2 Stephen Klump Ann Arbor 3 Michael Brage, Andres Brage, Yonina Tova Stout 1 Robert Hyndman, Debbie Hyndman Duneland 2 Al Korzonas Chi Beer Soc 3 John Warakomski, Ian Tomlinson Bock 1 Art Steinhoff K. Gambrinus 2 Phil Kaszuba Green Mtn 3 Jim Hodge Chi Beer Soc German Dark Lager 1 Thomas Plunkard Ann Arbor 2 John Stevenson 3 Bill Rogers German Light Lager 1 Stephen Klump Ann Arbor 2 Mike Lelivelt Madison HTG 3 Thomas Plunkard Ann Arbor Classic Pilsener 1 Eric Stockinger 2 Terry Richardson Silverado 3 Mark Knoebl Headhunters American Lager 1 Gerald M. Poss, Jr. 2 Thomas Plunkard Ann Arbor 3 John Stevenson Vienna/Marzen/Oktoberfest 1 Scott Whitaker Foam Blowers 2 Paul Martinez Beer Barons 3 Paul Shick German-Style Ale 1 Valdymar Kopec 2 Eric Stockinger 3 Marc Kullberg Chi Beer Soc German-Style Wheat Beer 1 Mike Rivard Chi Beer Soc 2 Dennis Davison Chi Beer Soc 3 Joseph Styke, Tom Stawarz Smoked Beer 1 Paul Hale, Phil Kaszuba, Rich Evans Green Mtn 2 Mike Bardallis Down River 3 Mark Ratliff Commission Fruit & Vegetable Beer 1 Mike Lelivelt Madison HTG 2 Matthew Werner 3 Tom Schlak Herb & Spice Beer 1 Carl Regenfelder, Robert Kustra Beer Barons 2 Robert Pinkerton Bloatarian 3 Chuck Wettergreen Headhunters Specialty & Experimental Beer 1 Hal Buttermore Ann Arbor 2 Bert Zelten Green Bay 3 Paul Hale, Phil Kaszura, Rich Evans Green Mtn California Common Beer 1 Paul Martinez Beer Barons 2 Philip Gravel Urban Knaves 3 Chuck Bagi Traditional Mead & Braggot 1 Marc Kullberg Chi Beer Soc 2 Al Korzonas Chi Beer Soc 3 Randy Johnson Fruit & Vegetable Mead 1 Hal Buttermore Ann Arbor 2 Marc Kullberg Chi Beer Soc 3 Robb Harris First Draft Herb & Spice Mead 1 Robb Harris First Draft 2 Daria Labinsky, Stan Hieronymus Abnormal 3 Eric Drake, J. Woody Drake Scioto ... Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 22 May 97 10:24:21 PDT From: "Rob Moline" <brewer at kansas.net> Subject: Draft Systems Kegs/Grolsch Hops-New Homebrewing Books/ Little Apple Brewing The Jethro Gump Report >From: "Trollhattan Motors, Inc." <direct at cybertroll.com> >Subject: Help- Kegs & fitting what do I have??? >I have 8 old stainless kegs, they are rounded made by Firestone >for Schaefer Beer Company. It has a wooden bong in the side >and a screw type fitting in the top. Similar to the Hoff-Stevens (SP) >except it has only one hole for the probe. The screw in adapter is >also marked Schaefer / Draft Systems (DS), and has a 3 lug nut to >screw onto the keg. It has a single stainless probe with two o-rings. >The co2 line connects to the of the PLASTIC body of the connector, >via a hose barb. What do I have? With a wooden 'bong' in the side, these must have been made in the 1960's! (Sorry, couldn't help myself!) ;-) This sounds similar to the 4 Draft Systemns kegs given to me by a Miller distributor, except that the valve in the top of my kegs did have a dual probe capability, just like a Hoff Stevens. The problem with this type is that instead of a spring loaded valve for the CO2 side, as in an H-S valve, there was what is called a "Gator Bag", made of a brown rubber material that is similar to some types of back flow prevention devices. These perish with age, and to my knowledge are no longer produced. I called Sabco and ordered 4 new H-S valves and replaced them, so now I am able to use them with the rest of my H-S kegs. 2 of them were particularly difficult to get apart and I had to resort to the trusty Dremel Moto-Tool to cut the retaining rings off. My suggestion, minimally, is to do the same with yours, that is to convert to H-S valves. Optimally, send them to Sabco or Tosca for conversion to a Sankey valve. More expensive, yes, but Sankeys are much easier to work with. They can also restore any damage to the kegs internally, like dents, rust, or leaks. For your bungs, I would approach your nearby friendly brewer at a brewery that uses them. I'm sure they would sell you some, as I'm sure you won't want to buy them in 500 bung packages, nor do you want to pay the prices charged for small orders. Note that there are several sizes of bung, ask if you can borrow one to size it. These cost under 25 cents, depending on the quantity ordered, and the seller. Grolsch Hops. New Homebrewing Books I just yesterday acquired fellow HBD contributor Graham Wheeler and Roger Protz's books, "Brew Classic European Beers At Home," "Brew Your Own Real Ale At Home," and Graham's book "The Camra Guide to Home Brewing." In "BCEBAH," the recipe for Grolsch Premium Lager lists for a 5 US gallon batch 7.45 lbs pilsen malt, 1.3 lb Flaked maize .9 oz Saaz and .6 oz Hallertau at commencement of boil for 90 minutes. Step Infuse or double-decoct . Step at 122 for 20 minute, 144 for 45 minutes and 158 for 45 minutes. OG 1048, FG 1011. 5 % ABV, 4 % ABW, 27 IBU. Irish Moss in kettle for last 15 minutes of boil. No mention of finishing hops. I have not had time to read them yet, but they appear to be probably the most comprehensive books on homebrewing I have yet seen! Nice work, Graham! From: "Fred Mitchell" <ALFRED.W.MITCHELL at cpmx.saic.com> Subject: Little Apple Brewing Company Thank you Fred, you are very kind. I hope to see some more HBD'ers as the 'travel to GABF season' approaches. I will give a free sampler tray to anyone who identifies themselves, to me, as HBD'ers, and give you a tour of the brewery. This offer, of course, can only be honored if I am in the brewery at the time you arrive. Should any of you wish to avail yourselves of this, and call in advance to let me know when you plan to drop in, I will arrange my schedule to accommodate you. Maybe we could talk about beer! Or maybe brewing? Or Beer? Rob Moline Little Apple Brewing Company Manhattan, Kansas (913)-539-5500 "The More I Know About Beer, The More I Realize I Need To Know More About Beer!" Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 13:24:03 -0400 From: Thomas Kramer <tkramer at monad.net> Subject: first all grain low O.G. >Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 13:21:27 -0400 >To: homerbrew at hbd.org >From: Thomas Kramer <tkramer at monad.net> >Subject: first all grain low O.G. > >I finally got my new cajun cooker, and my 1/2 keg converted, and my 5gal rubber maid cooler with a Phil's phalse bottom. I brewed a I.P.A. that called for 10lb Inglish pale mast and 1lb crystal, using a single step infusion at 152F for 90 min. I poured 2.5 gal of 170f water into my cooler and added the grain's but the cover on, and 90 min's latter I did a iodine test, which did not chance color. Them I lautered within 5gal of 170F water through my Phils sparger, and then boiled it for 60 min. Then I but it all back in my cooler to sparge it, added about a 1/2 gal of water to get up to 5gal. The reepie called for a O.G. of 1.054 all I got was 1.030 what could I have done wrong? Is it possible that after I added the water at the end allthough I did shack the carboyed, the water did not mix all the way and when I got my samplt to check O.G. it was part water? Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 12:22:31 -0700 (PDT) From: Ken Johnson <kenjo at pogo.WV.TEK.COM> Subject: Need source for propane burner I need a mail order source for a ring type propane burner. I've seen the 100,000 btu 8" tall King Kooker, and it looks like it would do nicely. Please send me email if you know of a good source. Thanks, kj Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 15:37:03 -0400 (EDT) From: Some guy <pbabcock at mail.oeonline.com> Subject: HBD Moderation Guidelines Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your lager... As alluded to in a previous post, these are the guidelines to which the Janitors shall adhere in administering the moderation feature recently added to the digest. This set of guidelines was painstakingly discussed and honed to the document you see here. The Steering Committee is to be commended for deciding this policy in order to protect the free nature of the Digest, while protecting its bandwidth from undesirable abuses. See ya! -p =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- A policy statement of the Home Brew Digest Deliberated upon by the Home Brew Digest Steering Committee Unanimously agreed upon and concurred by the Janitors Effective 21 May 1997 as follows: In response to increased efforts by spam merchants to post chain letters, X-rated web site advertisements, and similar items to the HBD, the HBD Steering Committee has recently reviewed and discussed the Digest policies. We remain committed to an open forum for the discussion of brewing and beer related matters; however, to keep the HBD from being misused, we have adopted the following Guidelines for the HBD: 1. Our guiding principle is that the HBD should not censor or delete *any* message that deals with beer or brewing. The only exception is where the message *itself* is *clearly* against the law; for example, a post containing an illegal solicitation of investors for a microbrewery would be deleted, but posts discussing marijuana beer or home distilling -- while not encouraged -- would not. 2. The Digest Janitor will try to delete messages that are obvious, indisputable detrius (misplaced unsubscribe requests, chain letters, etc.) and commercial spam with no arguable connection to beer or brewing. 3. Posting blatant commercials to the HBD is *strongly* discouraged. While such messages will not be deleted if they have *any* connection with beer and brewing, the HBD Steering Committee will encourage the HBD readership not to patronize businesses who clearly are abusing the HBD. 4. Brief product or sale announcements, comments about or reviews of products or publications, and query responses that suggest a particular product or merchant (e.g., "In response to XXX's inquiry, my shop has a supply of corny kegs for $15 each") are appropriate HBD messages and *are* encouraged. 5. HBD readers *are* the HBD. They and the marketplace of ideas -- not any person or committee -- are the ultimate arbitrators of what beer and brewing related posts are worthwhile and appropriate for the HBD. However, the Steering Committee requests that HBD contributors remember that this Digest, unlike a USENET newsgroup, has limited bandwidth; i.e., the digest is limited to a certain size each day. For this reason, the Steering Committee gently asks contributors to think carefully before posting messages that most readers consider inappropriate or of marginal utility, such as: A. Personal diatribes or insults; B. Complaints about a message being inappropriate for the HBD (if it really bothers you, send the "offending" party e-mail); C. Complete results of a local competition (preferred: put them on a web site and post a short message identifying and pointing to its URL); D. Lengthy competition announcements (you don't need to list every category); E. Lengthy quotes of earlier messages that add only a "me too" comment. It is the hope that, through the mutual cooperation of the readership and Steering Committee of the HBD, no further actions need be taken to moderate the homebrew digest. Signed, The Home Brew Digest Steering Committee Scott Abene Louis Bonham Greg Day Kelly Jones Spencer Thomas Concurred, The Home Brew Digest Janitors Pat Babcock Karl Lutzen Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 14:51:00 -0500 (CDT) From: Aaron Kelley <akelley at cems.umn.edu> Subject: Bottle Headspace Greg Pickles writes, This does not seem right to me. True, water is essentially incompressible but it can still transfer force. Pressure = force per unit area (if I remember my freshman ME class correctly). Hence anything in the water and the container will be subjected to the same pressure present in the headspace above the liquid. If this were not true, hydrostatic testing of compressed gas bottles would not work and SCUBA divers would not need pressurized air to breath. - ----------------------- I think I need to rephrase my previous statement. Greg is correct that water can transfer pressure. However, yeast are also filled with water. If a balloon filled with air is suspended in water and pressure is applied to the water the balloon will srink. However, if a balloon filled with water is subjected to the same treatment it will not srink, because the water within the balloon is incompressible. The cell membrane of a yeast cell is not like a balloon, because water can flow essentially freely through the membrane. However, an increase in pressure above the liquid does not increase the driving force for water diffusion into the cell and the yeast are fine. - ------------------------------------------------------ Steve Waite writes, What was earlier theorized on the HBD (although so far unverified as far as I remember), is that as HCO3- builds up in solution it changes the osmotic pressure differential across the cell wall and prevents waste products from escaping the cell. It is this pressure difference which kills the yeast. I don't understand the details myself but, that's my take on what's been posted to date. - ------------------------- I don't believe this theory. With all of the protein and other components dissolved in the cytoplasm of the yeast ( the liquid inside the yeast cell) the osmotic pressure is always going to be higher inside the yeast. The other problem with this hypothesis is that osmotic pressure favors the exact opposite reaction. Osmotic pressure forces water toward an area of higher salt concentration. If anything, disolving HCO3 in the beer would cause water to flow toward it, not prevent it from flowing. However, all of this is nil if you believe my first arguement that the higher concentration of dissolved chemicals will always be within the yeast cell. Cells are able to control their osmotic pressure differential. - ------------------------------------------ This problem of differing carbonation is certainly an interesting one. Hopefully with all of the wisdom of the HBD we can come up with a satisfactory one. As for now I still support the increased availability of oxygen in the underfilled bottle. Aaron Kelley Chemical Engineer and Graduate Student Biological Process Technology Institute Department of Chemical Engineering and Material Science University of Minnesota akelley at cems.umn.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 15:42:20 -0700 From: Kelly Jones <kejones at ptdcs2.intel.com> Subject: Re:Inverted Carboy Fermenter Kim Lux described his work to create an inverted carboy fermenter by drilling a hole in the bottom, and affixing a valve to the top (which now becomes the bottom). Sounds like a great setup, but I would like to offer a warning: The work you have done in drilling the hole has created a great many 'microcracks'. These are small cracks in the glass, perhaps invisible to the naked eye, which will serve as initiation sites for stress fractures. Have you ever cut a sheet of glass by scratching a line into it, then stressing it at the line? The same effect at work. Normally, when glass is machined in such a way, the microcracks are healed by 'firepolishing', that is, heating up the edges of the hole with a gas flame, to the point that the glass melts slightly and the cracks flow shut. (If you wanted to do this, you would have to be EXTREMELY careful not to thermally stress the glass to the point of breakage!). Alternately, the glass can be strengthened by etching in HF (a very dangerous acid) which increases the radius of the cracks, thus reducing the stress-rising effect. I would suggest that you be aware of the weakened state of your carboy, and treat it with extreme care: Never set it down on its bottom without some sort of foam cushion for protection, never fill it with hot liquids, and be careful inserting any type of bung. And let us know how it works out for you! Kelly Hillsboro, OR Return to table of contents