---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com


Contents:
  Re: wheat beer (Scott Murman)
  RE: Hop Growing Question (Tom Lombardo)
  Oxidation in plastic bottles (Rich Hampo)
  Propane vs. Natural Gas / Hop Support Lines / Sparge Bubbles ("F.J. Warner")
  Lagering (Brad Kazmer)
  Stout question (Matthew Arnold)
  Last Call: B.U.Z.Z. Boneyard Brew-Off ("Joel Plutchak")
  Clear German Wheat beers (George De Piro)
  Re:Hop growing (PickleMan)
  coleman cooler mash tun (Ken Johnson)
  Bushy hops (Dave Johnson)
  Secondary ferment (Curt)
  Hop Growing (John Samples)
  Scottish Ale vs. Scotch Ale, ("Samuel W. Darko")
  BBC Longshot Competition ("Houseman, David L")
  polyclar question ("Ellery.Samuels")
  Re: Hop Growing Question: (Matt Harper)
  Canning Wort for Yeast Culturing (SSLOFL)
  Gott Cooler Flash ("Val J. Lipscomb")
  Double Diamond Recipe (JPenn11809)
  Valley Mill & Hops from seeds ("Grant W. Knechtel")
  Re: wheat beer (Rick Dante)
  lemon beer (Kirby Smithe)
  Hempen beer ("Layne and Katrise")


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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Tue, 03 Jun 1997 23:52:06 -0700
From: Scott Murman <smurman at best.com>
Subject: Re: wheat beer 

On Tue, 03 Jun 1997 23:37:04 -0400  ensmingr at npac.syr.edu wrote:
> 
> I lived in southern Germany for a couple years and sampled many
> different brands of wheat beers (Hefe Weizen).  I ordered them from bars
> and restaurants and bought them from stores.  Every one was clear in the
> glass, if poured carefully from the bottle. 

I think most Americans associate wheat beer with Franziskaner, which
is the most poplular wheat beer here (for some reason) and is
decidedly cloudy.  Add to that that many feel the need to squeeze one
or more lemons into the brew, and you can see why some may be confused
about the style.  I personally love wheat beers, brew wheat beers, and
drink wheat beers, and if I follow the German instructions I end up
with a very clear, good tasting wheat beer.  One day I hope to learn
to read German so the instructions won't be so confusing.

SM


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Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 06:10:22 -0500 (CDT)
From: Tom Lombardo <favt3tl at rvcux1.RVC.CC.IL.US>
Subject: RE: Hop Growing Question

George De Piro asks about growing bushier hops by breaking off the top.

George, I've had the same accident, and you're right - they'll grow more
vines and not as tall, which is great if you don't have anything 30 feet
tall for them to climb.  However, a bushy vine will be more difficult to
harvest.  I'm shooting for a tall plant with everything nicely spread out.
(We built a deck on our house with a hops arbor.  I hope the vines will
provide some late-summer shade as well as a nice harvest.)

By the way, even if you don't cut the top, eventually they'll branch out
and the main vine will continue to grow (at least, that's what my cascade
is doing right now).

Hoppy growing,

Tom

*******************************************
Homebrewers get better head.

Tom Lombardo (FAVT3TL at RVCUX1.RVC.CC.IL.US)
*******************************************



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Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 08:20:02 -0400
From: rhampo at ford.com (Rich Hampo)
Subject: Oxidation in plastic bottles

Howdy,

Much has been said about storage of beer in plastic soda bottles
(using carbonator) but I don't recall any concrete experiments.
Has anyone bottled several beers and then sampled them after
different time periods to see when the oxidation is detectable?
Any single datapoints out there? One or two weeks has been thrown
around as a reasonable maximum time to keep beer in a plastic bottle,
as I recall. Anyone want to volunteer to do the experiment?
I only have a single carbonator cap but I know several of you out
there have a bunch....

Brew on!

Richard Hampo
H&H Brewing welcomes the birth of our newest brewer, Michael James Hampo.
He was born on Wednesday the 28th and weighed in at 11 1/3 bottles of beer ;=)
(that's 8lb 8oz in the US....)

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Date: Wed, 04 Jun 1997 08:33:38 -0400
From: "F.J. Warner" <fjwiii at kodak.com>
Subject: Propane vs. Natural Gas / Hop Support Lines / Sparge Bubbles

Thanks to Jim Thomas, Steve Scott, Walt Lewis, and Bruce Heine for their
comments on the compatibility between natural gas and propane.  In a
nutshell, the two gases are delivered at different pressures, with propane
at roughly twice the pressure of natural gas.  Given this, the orifice size
basically needs to be enlarged.

- -------------------------------------------------

>Ian Smith asks:
>
>What should I use to support 2nd year hop vines ? If I use string should 
>I use nylon ? what diameter should I use ? Has anyone used fishing line 
>or would this cut into the vines ? 
>
>Also, is it OK to have the vines growing straight up for 5 feet and then
>at a 45 degree angle ? 

I'm also in the second year for my hops.  I use nylon string (rated at 100#
overkill) and it works nicely.  My hops grow up a post for about 7 ft and
then at a 45 degree angle for another 12 - 15 ft, which the plants followed
right along.  I had a great yield last year and look forward to this years
crop. Good Luck.

- -------------------------------------------------

Thanks for your comment on sparge bubbles Ken Schwartz.  I did happen to
add foundation water to the mash-tun before the grains, however, I did not
bother to make sure any air trapped under the false bottom was released.
I'll pay attention to that on my next mash

- -------------------------------------------------

Thanks again,
Fred Warner
warner at ttc.kodak.com


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Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 02:02:42 -0500 (CDT)
From: Brad Kazmer <kazmerbn at vuse.vanderbilt.edu>
Subject: Lagering



I've been keeping up with the recent discussions about lagers that 
haven't carbonated, possibly due to cold secondary fermentation 
temperatures.  My first attempt at a lager (Oktoberfest OG 1.070) is 5 days 
into the secondary stages and has been dropped in temperature from 52 to 
45.  I was planning to continue dropping until I reached about 33 over a 
couple weeks, raise the temperature back to 52 over a couple days, and 
prime & bottle.  Now I am hesitant because I don't want all of my yeast 
to settle out to leave me with no yeast to produce carbonation.  Should I

	1.  Continue as planned and hope for the best?
	2.  Immediately return my beer to 52, wait a week, prime & bottle,
	and then start lagering all over again?
	3.  Keep my beer at 45 for a week then bottle & prime at 45?
	4.  Do some combination of the above?
	5.  Do absolutely nothing like anything above?
	6.  Relax, don't worry...

Private e-mail would be appreciated.

Brad
kazmerbn at vuse.vanderbilt.edu                      

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Date: Wed, 04 Jun 1997 14:16:04 GMT
From: mra at skyfry.com (Matthew Arnold)
Subject: Stout question

Greetings, oh great homebrewing unconscious!

First of all, thanks to AlK and others for their help with my
Duesseldorf-style Altbier. It is currently sitting in a secondary.
Hopefully I'll be able to try it in a couple of weeks. It was also the
first batch I brewed using my new King Kooker (no affiliation, YMMV).
I don't know how I survived without it. $44 for ~135K BTU ring burner
from Fleet Farm (no affliation again, etc., etc.)

Now my new question: my wife is currently seven-plus months pregnant.
She likes stout (pause for oohs and ahhs), so I promised her I would
brew one for her that would be ready after she gives birth. Here is
the recipe I was going to try, based loosely on Papazian's "Dark
Sleep" Stout and AlK's Medium-Dry Stout. Basically I'm looking for a
Guinness-esque (draught version, of course) Stout with a little extra
sweetness. Her favorite is Sherlock's Home "Stag's Head" Stout.

6.6# John Bull Dark LME
 .5# Roasted Barley
 .5# Flaked Barley
3 oz Fuggles (4.0% AAU--60 minutes)

I was planning on dumping (dropping? Is that the right term?) it on
the yeast cake of Wyeast #1338 European Ale I have from my Altbier.

I know that two key ingredients for Guinness are roasted barley and
unmalted barley. Basically, my question is: can I just
steep/single-infusion-mash the flaked barley? Will it give me the
taste I'm looking for or will I need to mash it with some two-row?

Thanks for any help,
  Matt

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Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 09:56:15 -0500
From: "Joel Plutchak" <joel at bolt.atmos.uiuc.edu>
Subject: Last Call: B.U.Z.Z. Boneyard Brew-Off

This is a brief final call for entries and judges for the Boneyard Union
of Zymurgical Zealots (B.U.Z.Z.) third annual homebrew competition to be
held on Saturday, June 14, 1997.

Further information can be found at:

       http://starfire.ne.uiuc.edu/buzz/contest3.html

A ***Midwest Homebrewer of the Year*** event; Sanctioned by the AHA and BJCP. 

     Any homebrewed beer or mead is eligible; AHA 1997 Style Guidelines;
     Additional special category: No One Gets Out Alive High Gravity Brew-Off
        Starting gravity over 1.070, any style or non-style; judged on
        potency and overall drinkability.  Not eligible for BOS.

   Send entries to:
      Boneyard Brew-Off
      c/o Picadilly Beverage Shop
      505 S. Neil Street
      Champaign IL 61821

   Nominal deadline June 9, 1997; judge entry walk-ins OK with prior notice.
   $5 per entry ($4 each for 4 or more per brewer); 2 bottles per entry. 

Sponsors
========
The B.U.Z.Z. would like to thank the following sponsors:

   * Picadilly Beverage Shops          * CYMBA
   * Two Brothers Brewing Company      * Liquid Bread
   * Northwestern Extract Co.          * Jack Schmidling Productions
   * American Homebrewers Association  * St. Louis Bread Company
   * Hamburg Distributing Co.          * Brew and Grow

For more information about becoming a sponsor, contact me.
- --
Joel Plutchak <plutchak at uiuc.edu>
916 W. Charles Street,  Champaign IL 61821
217-359-4931 (eves & wkends)  |  217-333-8132 (M-F, 8am-4pm)

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Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 09:41:05 -0700
From: George_De_Piro at berlex.com (George De Piro)
Subject: Clear German Wheat beers

     Hi all,
     
     The discussion about the clarity of commercial German Weizens is 
     interesting, especially because it is something that judges should 
     keep in mind when evaluating these beers.
     
     It is true that commercial wheat beers are pretty clear.  I have made 
     Dunkel Weizens that are remarkably clear (the roasted malt somehow 
     aids in the formation and removal of tannin-protein complexes, thus 
     reducing haze).  Making clear, pale Weizens is difficult, for me at 
     least.  Even cold storage for a month results in a beer of only 
     marginal clarity (somewhat clear, but you won't be reading a book 
     through it!).
     
     Could it be that commercial Weizen is clear because of the filtration 
     step these beers go through?  Most brewers filter or centrifuge the 
     beer to remove the top fermenting yeast before adding Kraeusen with 
     lager yeast.  I would bet that this removes a good deal of the haze, 
     too.  Perhaps having the proper knowledge about their malts helps, 
     too.  Knowing how modified the malt is, the brewer can plan a mash 
     schedule that emphasizes the appropriate protein rests to produce a 
     clear beer without compromising head retention.
     
     The bottom line is that you shouldn't fault a Weizen for being too 
     clear, but perhaps it would be more traditional to make it cloudy.
     
     Have fun!
     
     George De Piro  (Nyack, NY)

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Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 08:46:44 -0700 (PDT)
From: PickleMan <wrp2 at axe.humboldt.edu>
Subject: Re:Hop growing

Regarding the question of removing the growing tip of a hop plant:
	I believe the most technical term for what you cut off would be
the shoot-apical meristem, but we know what you meant by the growing tip.
I'm not sure exactly the reason for letting hops grow tall, but I think I
remember somebody telling me that they won't flower as well if they are
shorter, but instead concentrate on growing.  I know in the Yakima valley
of Wa where I used to live, the hops are grown to what looks like 30'
high.  You might be able to prune one of the new shoots back to the
primary branch (before any buds occur or you will end up with the same
situation you have now) and force the plant to continue grrowth in the
remaining shoot.

PickleMan
wrp2 at axe.humboldt.edu


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Date: Wed, 04 Jun 1997 08:49:20 -0700
From: Ken Johnson <kenjo.abc at pogo.abc.wv.TEK.COM>
Subject: coleman cooler mash tun

I've been trying to find a 10 gallon Gott cooler for the longest time
with no luck.  Yesterday I saw a 10 gallon Coleman cooler for $35.  It's
tall like the Gott, but it has a square cross section.  Has anyone
had any experience using the Coleman coolers as mash tuns?

kj

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Date: Wed, 04 Jun 1997 12:11:55 -0400
From: Dave Johnson <djohnso at OPIE.BGSU.EDU>
Subject: Bushy hops

Greetings all,

In HBD #2433 George De Piro asks...

>Can hops be kept short and bushy by cutting off the growing tip 
>(technical botanical term)?

>I'm sure there must be a reason to let them grow tall, though.  Any 
>ideas?

I'm no hop grower (yet) but may be able to shed some light on this 
from a botanical perspective.

Many growers of a well know cousin of hops do not like to pinch or
otherwise lose the growing tip (apical meristem) of a female
plant.  As George accurately notes you get 2 for 1.  A plant that
remains in tact will have only one group of apical flowers ("bud")
plus many axillary "buds". Growers cherish the apical "bud" 
because, sitting at the top, the female plant puts extra pollen
attracting substances into the apical "bud" because its 
the most exposed, therefore has the best chance of pollination 
and successful reproduction.  Its this extra substance the
grower wants.  In fact the grower often goes to great pains to
ensure that female flowers do not get pollinated so as to induce
the plant to pump resources, that would otherwise go to seed set,
into more pollen attracting substances.  So why not pinch, pinch,
and pinch in order to get lots of apical "buds"?  The pie is only so
big and you will never get the quality of the single apical "bud", 
had the plant been left untouched.

I presume this is also applicable to our beloved plant.  So what's
this mean to hop growers?  In short, you should be able to bush
out your hops plants.  I hesitate to speculate about the net effects 
on quality.  I suspect you'll end up with more total buds of a lesser
quality.  The pie is only so big.  A bushed plant will also take up
more surface area on the ground, which may be of concern to the
commercial growers.

I've ramble enough, now its time for the experienced growers to
wade in.  I'm looking forward to being able to grow hops, and
Goldings will be in the mix.

Brewing hard in Ohio,
- -- 
Dave Johnson
Dept. of Biol. Scie.
BGSU
Bowling Green,  Oh 43403
djohnso at opie.bgsu.edu
http://www.bgsu.edu/departments/biology/algae/index.html

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Date: Wed, 04 Jun 1997 12:23:30 -0400
From: Curt <curtcip at interstat.net>
Subject: Secondary ferment

Hi.

I have several questions, so I'll try to present them in some sort of
logical order.

1.  I'm brewing an ESB, and trying to get that draft Fuller's sweetness,
which, I'm guessing (hopefully correctly) is caused by diacatyl.  I used
the Wyeast London 3, and am fermenting at about 65 F.  At what point is
the diacatyl produced?  Is it mainly in the primary, with the secondary
acting to reduce the diacatyl?  If so, should I forgo racking to the
secondary and just keg right from the primary (OG=1.056, by the way). 
Once kegged, am I better off force CO2ing or natural (as far as diacatyl
is concerned).

2.  I also have a steam beer in the primary (brewed this past
Saturday).  In an effort to shorten it's transition into my belly, if I
rack it into a corny keg and let it sit in the fridge at about 40 F or
so for a couple of weeks, will that serve the same purpose as the
secondary, in addition to carbonating it?  If so, would I simply dump
the first pint or so of sludge that comes out, or would I need to then
rack to a serving keg?  Also, would I be building up excessive pressure
in the keg?

Private e-mail is okay.

Thanks a lot,

Curt Abbott
Atco, NJ

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Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 12:28:33 -0400 (EDT)
From: John Samples <samplesj at gusun.acc.georgetown.edu>
Subject: Hop Growing

George de Piro accidentally clipped off the end of his Goldings and
wondered if bushier might be better. A squirrel bit off the ends of about
half my vines this spring. I thought this was a bad thing because I
assumed that a six-foot tall bushy hop plant would produce fewer cones
than a thirty-foot long vine because the latter would many more sidearms
to hold cones. I have also noticed that new shoots that appear after the
end has been clipped off can also be wrapped around the twine and will
continue to grow much like a regular hop vine; they even seem to produce
normal sidearms. 

Ian Smith inquired about nylon as a support line for hops. I have had good
luck with twine which a nice rough surface that I think makes it easier
for the hop to climb; they seem to form relatively tight circles as they
climb. Ian also asks about having hops grow up five feet and then over at
a forty five degree angle. I have a similar setup, and last year - the
first year - I noticed that the first five feet or so of the vines got a
bit less sun and seemed to produce fewer cones. But that may be the nature
of the hop beast.

John Samples
Washington, DC





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Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 11:39:20 -0500 (EST)
From: "Samuel W. Darko" <sdarko at indiana.edu>
Subject: Scottish Ale vs. Scotch Ale, 

I drank the best beer a few weeks ago and I'd like to brew some of my 
own.  It's called Belhaven Scottish Ale.  I tried to look up a recipe on 
the Web, but only found recipies for Scotch Ales.  Could somebody tell me 
if there is a difference?  I'm kinda new to this hobby and I still have a 
lot of questions.  If at all possible could somebody send a recipe 
(extract)?  

TIA

Sam Darko

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Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 13:02:03 -0400
From: "Houseman, David L" <David.Houseman at unisys.com>
Subject: BBC Longshot Competition

I've been out of pocket from EMAIL and am just getting caught up.  Hopefully 
this won't be repetitious.  I can't speak for the Boston Beer Company and 
why they are not having their Longshot competition this year (although rumor 
is that that brand hasn't enjoyed the popularity that their other products 
have).  It was asked in a previous HBD why the AHA hasn't published anything 
about the BBC being the NINKASI award sponsor.  The AHA has been in 
negotiations trying to find a NINKASI since they recently learned that the 
previous sponsor was not going to do so this year.  Signing up BBC was a 
very recent event and they word just hasn't spread yet, although it may now 
be on their WEB site.  It seems to me that this is a very synergistic 
coupling.

Dave Houseman


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Date: Wed,  4 Jun 97 14:45:14  EDT 
From: "Ellery.Samuels" <esamuel at mvsb.nycenet.edu>
Subject: polyclar question

Hello Brew Buddies,

I have in my posession two jars of polyclar.  One is labled Polyclar SB-100
and the other Polyclar 10.  Does anyone out there know the difference between
the two and which is the appropriate one to use in homebrewing.  How much
should be used for 5 gallon batches and when in the process should it be used?

Your advice and help is greatly appreciated.

Mr. Sammy

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Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 14:34:27 -0400
From: Matt Harper <matth at bedford.progress.com>
Subject: Re: Hop Growing Question:


In Digest2433 George De Piro asks:


>     Hi all,
>    
>     This is my first year as a hop farmer, and I have a question:
>     
>     Can hops be kept short and bushy by cutting off the growing tip 
>     (technical botanical term)?
>     
>     I accidentally did just that to my first Goldings vine.  It now
has 
>     two new tips forming just under the break.  It got me thinking,
"Why 
>     the hell let the things grow to be 15 feet tall?  Keep them short
and 
>     bushy and trimming them back."
>     
>     I'm sure there must be a reason to let them grow tall, though.
Any 
>     ideas?
   
A great article was written about this subject in the Zymurgy Special
Hops 
Issue. To Summarize, the yield *will* be affected for more varieties if
they 
are not supported/allowed to climb to their full potenital.  It takes 15

years or so to retrain a variety to not climb as high and still produce
a 
sufficient yield to make it (important here) viable as a *commercially 
produced* hop. 

Some varieties have been trained to only grow 8-10 feet or so, thus
saving 
on the cost of harvest.  However, they also note that the yield is
still smaller than a typical 'tall' vine, so more plantings are 
required for the same yield per acre.  (The shorter plants allow for
closer spacing.)

Why the low yield?  Not sure and I do not recall the article going in to
great detail.  My impression is that it is similar to other plants; they
have a 'target' size by which they either produce properly or they do
not; such as my corn, tomato plants and pole beans.


I like 'em tall.  Makes people ask questions so I get to talk about
brewing. :-)  next year I'll be moving my crop to another part of the
yard and putting up some home fabricated flag poles to handle them.
(Flag pole is not my idea; came from the HBD about 2 years ago.)



 -Matth


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Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 13:45:47 -0500
From: SSLOFL at monsanto.com
Subject: Canning Wort for Yeast Culturing


   On HBD #2433, Brad wrote:

   >  Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 09:04:32 +0000 >  From: bmanbeck at isd.net
   >  Subject: Canning unfermented wort?

   >  I am interested in canning a mini batch (3 gals) of unfermented wort
   >  for storage and then later, use as a yeast starter. I am trying to
   >  gather
   >  information on how other HBDers have done this in the past. Any
   >  procedural hints or other tips would be greatly appreciated. Private
   >  emails are welcomed.

   >  Brad Manbeck
   >  bmanbeck at isd.net


        Thanks, Brad.  You have inspired me to write a paper on how to can
   wort for yeast culturing.  I have been canning wort for over a year and
   a half now, and have had great results.  I love culturing my own yeast,
   and having canned wort readily available makes it much easier.  Canning
   wort for starters is time well spent.  I have been canning even longer
   than I have been brewing, so I have enjoyed applying these skills to my
   brewing hobby. I have taken good notes in the past, so give me a few
   days to write it up and I will post it for you and anyone else out there
   that may need it or find it interesting.


   Shane

   sslofl at ccmail.monsanto.com

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Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 17:01:59 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Val J. Lipscomb" <valjay at NetXpress.com>
Subject: Gott Cooler Flash

Just noticed an ad in todays San Antonio paper that may interest
anyone about to try a Gott-Rubbermaid mashtun. Builders Square
has the 5 gallon cooler for $20.99 (that's a $14 discount) from
now thru Sunday,8 June. If you have a Builders Square in your town,
that's a *really good* price. Usual disclaimer-no affiliation,just
a regular and satisfied customer,etc.,etc.,etc.

Hope someone can use this info!!

Val Lipscomb-brewing in San Antonio


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Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 18:40:01 -0400 (EDT)
From: JPenn11809 at aol.com
Subject: Double Diamond Recipe

I've become enamoured with "Double Diamond", and have been trying to
duplicate it for about a year, with little success.  I've got Dave Line's
recipie, and one from "The Cat's Meow", and while both produce VERY good
beers, they don't replicate this brew.  Has anyone tried this, and tasted the
two in comparison and gotten close?  I've been using malt extracts, only 1
all-grain, used London Ale Yeast, brown sugar, and Williamette hops, but
there is a flavor present in DD that we (me and my local brewstore) just
can't put our fingers on.  Any help would be GREATLY appreciated, and private
EM is fine.

Thanks,
David Penn

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Date: Wed, 04 Jun 1997 15:55:44 -0700
From: "Grant W. Knechtel" <GWK at hartcrowser.com>
Subject: Valley Mill & Hops from seeds

In HBD 2433 
Wes talked about growing hops from seeds.  I'm no expert (I expect first
production this Fall) but you run the risk (about 50/50 I'd guess) of getting
male plants this way.  The females are the ones you want.  If you have male
plants, you run the risk of generating unwanted hybrids with further seeds.  If
I'm not mistaken, hop growing areas go to considerable lengths to keep male
plants carefully controlled for this reason. 

Rob asked about the Valley Mill.  My brew buddy and I bought one a couple of
months ago.  We've put 3 batches through it.  It does a nice job of crushing and
the hopper is a handy size.  I wish the roller was infinitely adjustable instead
of click-stopped,  it always seems like you want a setting in between. 
Efficiency has been the same or a little better than obtained from the brew
store's crusher, around 80%,  probably controlled by mash and sparge methods at
this point.  Savings should start to show up when we get room to store malt in
bulk...Maybe I could substitute bags of malt for those couch pillows...
No affiliation etc.
 -Grant

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Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 16:56:04 -0700 (PDT)
From: Rick Dante <rdante at pnet.net>
Subject: Re: wheat beer


Peter A. Ensminger wrote:


>Date: Tue, 03 Jun 1997 23:37:04 -0400
>From: ensmingr at npac.syr.edu
>Subject: wheat beer
>
>I lived in southern Germany for a couple years and sampled many
>different brands of wheat beers (Hefe Weizen).  I ordered them from bars
>and restaurants and bought them from stores.  Every one was clear in the
>glass, if poured carefully from the bottle.  In contrast, Widmer Wheat
>beer of Oregon, which some seem to think is like a real German Weizen,
>is not true to style in appearance (it's too cloudy) and taste (not
>enough clove character).
>
>Most Germans pour their Wheat beer so that the yeast goes into the
>glass.  A popular way to pour it is to rapidly invert the bottle 180
>degrees into the tall Wheat beer glass, and then slowly raise it up so
>that the beer doesn't gush out.  It is a method which I never perfected,
>but a friend who was an expert demonstrated for me whenever she had the
>chance.
>
>So, real Hefe Weizen is clear if poured carefully.  Of course, a
>Kristall Weizen is also clear, but that's simply because there's no
>yeast in the bottle.

Peter,

I brew Hefe Weizen using a 70/30 wheat to barley ratio with the
proper culture of Weinstephan 368 yeast and I usually perform a triple
decoction mash.  My product tastes better than any Bavarian import I've
sampled because it's fresh, unpasteurized, and I use good ingredients and
technique.  If mine isn't a "real" hefe weizen, I don't know what is.
When fresh, "real" bavarian hefe weizen is always cloudy.  When the great
sin is commited and hefe weizen sits undrunk, it starts to clear up.
Also, sometimes bavarian breweries bottle condition with lager yeast to
improve long term storage.  Lager yeast tends to settle more quickly.
But the real stuff, such as the fresh yeasty stuff that comes of *my* tap,
is cloudy.  It will clear (triple decoction helps) with the sin of time,
but good hefe weizen is fresh hefe weizen and fresh hefe weizen has plenty
of happy yeast swimming in suspension begging to be consumed.  Drink it
that way whenever you can.

Rick

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Date: Wed, 04 Jun 1997 16:59:33 -0700
From: Kirby Smithe <eb65080 at goodnet.com>
Subject: lemon beer

Last winter there was a thread concerning lemon beer.
I had just bottled a batch of _lime_ beer and said I'd report in
when it was time:

On the admittedly un-tested advise of a beer supply
store I put lime juice in a bottle of beer and adjusted
the amount until it tasted right. 

Lime juice was added prior to bottling

Wrong! Not so very good.

I've since read that zest of lemon has been tried. I must agree
that this would be the way to go although it might be a little 
difficult to adjust the quantity.
     Kirby Smithe 
        
 x--->   <-----x
<:>{===={~~~~~~~~~~~~~
   <---x <-----x
         
   Tucson, Arizona

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Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 20:49:00 -0700
From: "Layne and Katrise" <wetpetz at oberon.ark.com>
Subject: Hempen beer

I saw an article in the July 97 issue of all about beer magazine on pg. 69
than fits well with the pot beer thread that has been persistent in the HBD
these days.
	It seems that the Frederick brewing Co. will be making a brew with the
seeds of hemp used as an adjunct.  There is no THC in seed.
	It got me thinking that the seeds are very high in oil content (about
30%).  I would think that this would have a bad affect on the beers head
but the press release says that the seed gives the beer "a rich, creamy
head".
	There is a page at http://www.rella.com/hseednut.html with nutritional
info on Hemp seed.  It states here that Hemp seed is 30% Fat, 23% Protein
and 36% Carbohydrates.
	I would like to try using hemp seed in a small batch of beer to see the
affects and to see what flavors it leaves behind.
	I wonder though if the brewery above is extracting the oil from the seed
first.  I also wonder how much of this I might use as an adjunct.  5%,
more?  I'm sure that if brewers are trying it for the protein and head it
could be a interesting development.  There are also some other good
vitamins and minerals that yeast can use in fermentation.

Layne & Katrise Rossi
wetpetz at oberon.ark.com
Campbell River, BC
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