---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com


Contents:
  RE: Grits? in HBD 2443 ("Grant W. Knechtel")
  Stainless Cooler -- Thanks ("John L. Heubel")
  Technology Malting and Brewing (Fred Waltman)
  Re: Motorising that bastard Corona! (JONATHAN BOVARD)
  easymasher sparging (Dave Whitman)
  champagne clarity (Dave Whitman)
  Subscribe, unsubscribe, queue, cancel, etc... (Some Guy)
  RE: Scotch Ales/Juggling (Bill Ridgely)
  Wit (Kit Anderson)
  N2 Dispensing Question (Brian_Moore)
  Cut Your Nipples Everybody! (John Goldthwaite)
  Removing yeast sediment from Champagne (Larry Johnson)
  Planning trip tp Portland, ME...Pleeze help me (BIGGINS)
  William's Mash Kit (Wesley McDaniel)
  Motor Mill / Wit / RIMS batch sparge ("Bridges, Scott")
  Equipment search (Wesley McDaniel)
  Removal of Champagne "Trub" ("Penn, Thomas")
  Re: Technology Brewing and Malting (Steve Piatz)
  Peat Taste in Extract Brews ("Lee Carpenter")
  Scotch Thread / Pat's HB Shop Woes (RANDY ERICKSON)
  iodophor, sparging, corn (Kent Tracy)
  Chest Freezer Taps (Glenn Raudins)
  RE: Champagne and clarity ("Mark Nelson")
  Manners ("Bridges, Scott")
  A cool little sparge filter (Mike Spinelli)
  Cherry plambic ("Grant W. Knechtel")


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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 19:27:06 -0700
From: "Grant W. Knechtel" <GWK at hartcrowser.com>
Subject: RE: Grits? in HBD 2443

Mark Rancourt asked if anyone had used grits as an adjunct.  I used grits
(polenta, actually) instead of flaked maize in a pre prohibition pilsner.  They
worked fine, I did boil them with a small amount of milled 6-row to gelatinize. 
They were considerably less expensive than buying the flaked maize from the brew
store.  I can't see the logic in buying an adjunct that costs more than base
malt, unless it contributes a unique character to the beer.  The beer turned out
great - it was my first attempt at a lager, and I was very pleased.

Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 22:08:01 -0500
From: "John L. Heubel" <jlheubel at wf.net>
Subject: Stainless Cooler -- Thanks

To the collective,

Thanks for all the emails about my stainless vacuum bottle.
  To summarize:
	The vacuum, if it is still intact,  would effectively negate direct
heating due to its insulating capabilities.  Should have thought of this
myself.  One response said these coolers are so good I could heat my sparge
water the night prior and it would still be within a couple degrees when
needed.

	Drilling the wall so I could fill it with water to use like a double
boiler would enable heat transfer, but would still be fairly slow, even
with the water at boiling.  Steam pressure may build up too much creating a
hazardous situation, life and limbs strewn about the brewery :o( , and
without constant attention, the water may boil off leading to overheating
the metal bottom.

	The cooler is indeed 304 Stainless with a welded nipple (3/8" I think),
and with a larger threaded end.  It doesn't have the actual spigot, but I
should be able to get a stainless ball valve which should work even better.
 The Do NOT USE FOR MILK label was due to military contract requirements.

The Plan...
Clean it up really well with a hot TSP soak and measure temp loss to
determine the state of the vacuum.  Use as is for sparge water and/or mash
tun once I go back and find the infusion mash heat calculations I thought I
wouldn't need due to my normal direct heat/ice cubes for fine tuning
temperature steps.  Go back to the scrap yard every week to find more of
these coolers :o).

John Heubel
Wichita Falls, TX

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Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 22:54:24 -0700 (PDT)
From: Fred Waltman <waltman at netcom.com>
Subject: Technology Malting and Brewing


Glenn Raudins asks about Technology Malting and Brewing:

Let me say right off that I am not enough of an expert to judge the book 
on a technical basis. It is a more more difficult read than Malting and 
Brewing Science -- mainly because there are way to many typos and the 
translation is a bit awkward (not that I could do better.). It is also 
more of a practical book than a scientific book -- great if you plan on 
large scale brewing, but not too much there for homebrewers, esp. if you 
already have M&BS.

When I ordered it, I asked if there were plans to distribute it in the US 
(in case I wanted more copies) and at that time (last fall) I was told 
there were not any plans for US distribution. But that may have changed. 
You could always try amazon.com

Fred Waltman
Culver City, CA (Los Angeles area)
http://www.brewsupply.com


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Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 16:43:14 +1000 (EST)
From: JONATHAN BOVARD <j.bovard at student.qut.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Motorising that bastard Corona!


In my local paper "the Trading post" you often seen electric motors with
gearboxes for sale around $70-100. All you need then are two pulleys and a
belt which can often be bought from washing machine reconditioners. You
probably would want to spin at around 50-80rpm.
Cheers
JB
j.bovard at student.qut.edu.au


Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 08:22:31
From: Dave Whitman <dwhitman at rohmhaas.com>
Subject: easymasher sparging

In HBD#2444, aab1 at chrysler.com asks about improving yield:

>Speaking of easymashers and channeling and batch sparging, I've been
>"Fly Sparging" with my easymasher, adding water by hand using a small bowl
>sitting on the grain bed to prevent disturbing it too much. My
>efficiency seems to only be around 55% ~ 60% tops.  My mash techniques
have been a single infusion at 150 for 70min. My grain is crushed at the
homebrew
>shop using a knurled(standard, I think) phil-mill (also I think). I
>usually spend about 45min to an hour sparging.

One thing I recommend is tasting samples from your grain bed after
sparging, looking for sweet spots (indicating residual sugar).  Using this
test, I found a "dead" spot in my lauter tun that wasn't getting adequately
washed out.  Now towards the end of my sparge, I let the bed go almost dry,
and pour water directly over the dead spot to get the sugar that's trapped
there.  My yield went from a mean of 28 pt*gal/lb to around 31 with this
change.

Watch your temperature control during the conversion rest.  There was a
time when I got lazy for a few batches and stopped putting my mash tun into
a warm oven to hold the temperature constant.  It was cooling down during
the rest, and my yield suffered.

Try adding a 30 minute rest at 40C/104F at the beginning of your mash.  Dr.
Fix has posted data showing improved yields with such a rest.  When I
started using it I managed to convince myself that I got a couple extra
points, although I never did a statistical test to confirm this and I was
fiddling with enough other things that the observations were badly
confounded.  I've seen speculation that the rest allows time for enzymes to
dissolve, or that it allows pre-swelling of starch granules.

>One thought I had was to replace the easymash screen with a circular
>copper slotted manifold, maybe with a part jutting into the center as
>well (like an upper case G).

I did this (a simple "O", not a "G") and am very happy with the result,
although there was no obvious increase in mash yield.  The benefits I
perceived all had to do with the boil:

1. easier stirring w/o the #$ at %& tube running through the middle of the pot.

2. can use whirlpooling to minimize hot and cold break, since the loop
avoids the central pile of break material.

3. The slots are less prone to plugging up with break material than the
screen.

4. By putting the slots on the manifold bottom, I can drain the pot much
more completely, wasting less wort.  I literally can get all but about 10
ml of the wort, vs. a liter or more with the EM.


- ---
Dave Whitman          "The opinions expressed are those of the author, and not
dwhitman at rohmhaas.com  Rohm and Haas Co."


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Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 08:37:23
From: Dave Whitman <dwhitman at rohmhaas.com>
Subject: champagne clarity

In HBD#2444, andrew_stavrolakis at harvard.edu asks:

>It's my understanding that proper champagne is fermented in the bottle.
>
>How then, do champagne manufacturers remove the yeast sediment from their
>bottles, producing such a crystal clear beverage?
>

The process is relatively mind-boggling.  

They store the bottles upside down so the yield collects in the bottle neck
(simple enough).  

Now for the mind-boggling part.  If memory serves, they dip the bottle neck
in l(N2)or some other cold bath to freeze a plug of the wine as an _in
situ_ stopper, remove the cork, ?scoop? out the yeast, then recap.  The
frozen plug keeps the champagne under pressure during yeast removal.
- ---
Dave Whitman          "The opinions expressed are those of the author, and not
dwhitman at rohmhaas.com  Rohm and Haas Co."


Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 08:21:09 -0400 (EDT)
From: Some Guy <pbabcock at oeonline.com>
Subject: Subscribe, unsubscribe, queue, cancel, etc...

Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your lager!

Just a quick note regarding the sending of commands to the 
homebrew-request line:

   o Commands MUST be in the BODY note. Subjects don't cut it.
   o Commands must be LOWER - er - lower case.
   o Subscribe/unsubscribe requests MUST be sent from the 
     address being subscribed/unsubscribed. The server will
     subscribe or unsubscribe the address from which the note came 
     ignoring any address you might put following the unsubscribe
     command. If this were not so, Dave Burley and Algis Korzonas
     would have unsubscribed each other long ago! (Just kidding! 
     they're both great guys!) 
   o Spam-proofed addresses cannot be reached by the server, and, 
     therefor, cannot be subscribed nor responded to. The server
     is set up to DELETE addresses it cannot reach. Keep this in 
     mind when posting and "commanding" the digest!


See ya!

Pat Babcock               | "Beer is my obsession, and I'm late for
pbabcock at oeonline.com     |  therapy..." -PGB
brewbeerd at aol.com         | "Let a good beer be the exclamation point
janitor@ brew.oeonline.com |  at the end of your day as every sentence
Home Brew Digest Janitor  |  requires proper punctuation." -PGB
Webmaster of the Home Brew Page http://oeonline.com/~pbabcock/brew.html
                 Home of the Home Brew Flea Market


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Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 08:52:14 -0400 (EDT)
From: Bill Ridgely <RIDGELY at A1.CBER.FDA.GOV>
Subject: RE: Scotch Ales/Juggling

In HBD #2444, Jim Busch responds to a posting about the perceived 
vinous character of some Scotch ales:

        >I wonder how much of this is a result of phenolics from 
        >wild yeast. The practice of yeast pressing would 
        >indicate to me a high probability of wild yeasts 
        >becoming resident.  Maybe Bill Ridgely could chime in 
        >here with his expert opinion.  I know Bill made some 
        >fantastic Scotch ales with dry yeast but when cultured 
        >the results were not nearly as pleasing.

I can't recall drinking many ales in Scotland with a vinous 
character, but certainly some of the stronger ones imported to 
the states may suffer from various degrees of oxidation, 
imparting that distinctive "sherry" character.

The Scottish practice of pressing and repitching, however, 
certainly leaves open the possibility of some wild yeast or 
bacteria getting into a ferment. Wendy and I brought back samples 
of pressed yeast from several Scottish breweries (Belhaven, 
Caledonian, MacLays) and brewed with them, producing good, 
full-bodied, authentic ales each time. However, subsequent brews 
using preserved cake lacked the same character, and in at least 
one case (an unfortunate 70 shilling heavy ale brewed for a cask 
ale class at Jim's), produced a contaminated ferment. Wendy's 
cultures of the yeast cakes showed them to contain various 
degrees of bacterial and wild yeast contamination.

Anyone who has seen a yeast press at work in a Scottish brewery 
(a pretty messy operation) can see the potential problems, as 
well as the reason huge amounts of pressed cake are pitched in 
subsequent batches. The intent is for the large volume of "good" 
yeast to overwhelm the wild yeast and bacteria. This seems to 
work well for the most part, but I suspect some character must be 
contributed by these wild beasties.

BTW, in response to the juggling survey - I juggle occasionally, 
although I've never gotten beyond 3 objects. It keeps my hands 
occupied during those long sparges and boils :-).

Bill Ridgely
Alexandria, VA


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Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 09:22:58 -0400
From: Kit Anderson <kitridge at bigfoot.com>
Subject: Wit

Jim Busch responded;

><Add the orange peel and coriander to secondary so the aromatics don't get
><scrubbed.
>
>Here I really dont concur.  Some boiling of both coriander and orange peel is
>desirable.  If one wants to enhance the effect then additional spices can
>be added to the fermenter but thats not a typical procedure in Belgium.
>I have spoken with a brewer at Hoegaarden about this.  Be sure to use the 
>right Curacao peels and high quality whole coriander seed, freshly crushed
>just prior to use.

Toast the whole coriander seeds, cool and grind. I used to add it at knock
out, but I really like the coriander flavor better when it is added to
secondary.

The orange peel can be boiled or added at secondary. I have found most US
judges expect citrus aroma. Orange in particular. A lot of this comes from
the right yeast. I haven't found Curacao to add any orange aroma. So I add
sweet orange peel to the secondary for the judges.

The only time I didn't get a score above 38 was when I used corainder from
Penzey's. It was fresher and therefore much more intense than store bought.
Makes good chili, though.

- ---
Kit Anderson	
Bath, Maine	   <kitridge at bigfoot.com>		

I suppose that it's theoretically possible for a Yankee to
make decent barbecue. But it sure ain't a pretty thought!
                                        -Smokey Pitts


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Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 08:08:59 -0500
From: Brian_Moore at amat.com
Subject: N2 Dispensing Question




Hello,

I've been following the recent discussions about using N2 do dispense
homebrew with great interest.  Hopefully there's still a little life left
in the topic.

I would really like to add some N2 capability to my current draft set-up.
I am currently using just the liquid hoses and the hand-held picinic-style
faucets to dispense from corny kegs.  I will soon be constructing a draft
tower of sorts with regular shanks and faucets.  I am wondering if I need
one of those Guinness style faucets to get the proper effect with N2 or if
I can just use a standard faucet.

Any experience or advice would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks,

Brian



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Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 09:18:53 -0400 (EDT)
From: ir358 at cleveland.Freenet.Edu (John Goldthwaite)
Subject: Cut Your Nipples Everybody!

Malty Dogs, One and All,
This is directed primarily for beginners and newbies. Tired of
losing precious liquid when racking from primary to 2ndary and
again from 2ndary to bottling bucket?  Cut the nipple off the 
end of the orange thingy that attaches to the racking cane. 
You'll need to hold it just off the sediment layer coming out
of primary, and tilt the bucket as it gets down to the dregs.
Sediment layer in 2ndary is pretty thin so you can rest it on
the bottom of the carboy. Tilt the carboy too and you will lose
almost nothing going to bottling bucket. I used to lose at least
a quart before I started doing this. Loss now is probably less
than a pint. I owe this idea to Lorne Franklin who doesn't use
the orange thingy at all. I wasn't crazy about going that far,
so I just cut the nipple off and it's been workin' great ever
since. Lorne, ironically is of Scottish descent, Clan of the
Cave Bear, I think, but let's not go there today! Now, I want
you all to go pound Stout. 

- --
"Gonna drink all day, gonna rock all night,
The law come to getcha if you don't walk right..."[Garcia/Hunter]

Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 10:01:17 -0400
From: Larry Johnson <maltster at ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Removing yeast sediment from Champagne

Andrew asks:

>It's my understanding that proper champagne is fermented in the bottle.
>How then, do champagne manufacturers remove the yeast sediment from their
>bottles, producing such a crystal clear beverage?

I have seen photos of one method (there are sure to be others) where the
bottle is inverted and the sediment allowed to settle down to the neck of
the bottle.  That part of the bottle is then frozen and the ice "plug" that
forms (which, by the way, contains the sediment) is removed.  The bottle is
then corked.  I presume that the very cold temperatures, careful handling,
and minimum time with the bottle open keep the wine from losing too much of
its carbonation.


Most people stumble over the truth now and then,
but they usually manage to pick themselves up and
go on anyway.   -   W. Churchill

Larry Johnson - Athens, GA - maltster at ix.netcom.com

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Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 10:04:29 -0400
From: BIGGINS at murray.fordham.edu
Subject: Planning trip tp Portland, ME...Pleeze help me

Greeting y'all...

I'm planning a trip to Portland, Maine and I would appreciate any and all
brewery and brewpub info anyone has.  I would like to visit as many as possible.
I'm driving up from Westchester County, 15 miles north of NYC.  My route takes
me through Hartford, CT and Boston.  

Please email me.  Private email is fine.  I thank everyone in advance for their
help.

Note:  yes, I am a homebrewer but stopped this winter, as my fermentation was
attracting mice.  Now that the weather is warm, I should start again, but 
unfortuantely I'm moving into NYC soon (grad school) so it looks unlikey that
I will be able to do it anytime soon.  Oh darn!  At least the brewpubs will
keep me satisfied (and the Yorkville Brewery will be 2 blocks away from me.
Too bad it couldn't be the Heartland).

Again any help is appreciated.  Bunches o' thanx.

John Biggins
Dept, of Chemistry
Fordham University
Bronx, NY

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Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 09:10:58 -0500 (CDT)
From: Wesley McDaniel <wmcdanie at marlin.utmb.edu>
Subject: William's Mash Kit

Does anyone here have any experience with the William's Mash Kit?  Would 
you recommend it for a brewer about to make the quantum leap into 
all-grain goodness?  It looks like a pretty good set up.  However, I am 
unsure about how well it works.  Any advise would be greatly appreciated.
			Thanks in advance

- -----------------------------------------------------------------
   Wesley McDaniel              wesley.mcdaniel at utmb.edu
      University of Texas Medical Branch, Galveston
- -----------------------------------------------------------------


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Date: Thu, 19 Jun 97 10:21:00 EDT
From: "Bridges, Scott" <bridgess at mmsmtp.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM>
Subject: Motor Mill / Wit / RIMS batch sparge



I'll throw my $ into the motorizing mill thread....

I have a MaltMill that I motorized using a 100 (approx) rpm used GE gear 
motor that I got from one of the surplus mail order places.  I added a power 
cord and household light switch.  Works great.  The motor  was about $25 
incl capacitor.  I can't take credit for the design.  I stole it from fellow 
Palmetto State Brewer, Jim Griggers.  As I recall, Jack Schmidling 
recommends keeping the MM under 400 rpm.
****************************

Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 10:42:35 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jim Busch <busch at eosdev2.gsfc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Traditional Wits/Scotch ales

>Mark notes Martin Lodahl's BT article (which is very good IMO)
>
><Use the right yeast. BrewTek and Yeast Culture Kit Co have the best wit
><yeasts.
>Excellent advice!
>
><Add the orange peel and coriander to secondary so the aromatics don't get
><scrubbed.
>
>Here I really dont concur.  Some boiling of both coriander and orange peel 
is
>desirable.  If one wants to enhance the effect then additional spices can
>be added to the fermenter but thats not a typical procedure in Belgium.
>I have spoken with a brewer at Hoegaarden about this.  Be sure to use the
>right Curacao peels and high quality whole coriander seed, freshly crushed
>just prior to use.

I'm not familiar with either the BrewTek or YCKC Wit yeast, but I have 
brewed numerous times with Wyeast Wit 3944.  I've taste tested my Wit 
head-to-head with Celis (and separately Celis with Hoegaarden).  My Wit was 
very similar to Celis (and I couldn't distinguish bet. Celis and Hoegaarden 
 -- ok, it was at the last stop on a pub crawl).  What different profile 
would you get using these other yeasts over Wyeast?  I'm curious what 
difference I could expect in a Wit fermented with them.

My normal approach to adding spices in a Wit is to add 1/2 with 15 min left 
in the boil and 1/2 at flame out.  This seems to keep some amount of flavor 
and aroma of the spices.  I use about 2 oz. of both coriander and Curacao 
orange peel in total.

**************************
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 97 08:13:30 PDT
From: hollen at vigra.com
Subject: Re: Batch Sparging

>>> KennyEddy  writes:
>
>K> Dion Hollenbeck brings up an interesting point about using a RIMS
>K> with batch-sparging.  Since the wort has been circulating through
>K> most or all of the mash, at a rate higher than the typical non-RIMS
>K> sparge, the first runoff can be done at full-throttle as Dion
>K> suggests.  For the second runoff, recirculating after adding the
>K> water would be simple and again would allow a faster runoff.  In
>K> this case, batch-sparging may actually be faster than
>K> full-sparging.
>
>While doing a second recirculation may be useful to boost extraction
>rate, I have never done it.  I drain, fill with sparge water, drain,
>fill, drain.....  usually for 3-4 cycles.
>
>dion

I'm enjoying this RIMS batch sparge discussion.  I've evolved into this very 
kind of approach.  I batch sparge my RIMS similar to Dion.  However, I never 
drain the mash tun completely until the last addition of sparge water.  I've 
always been concerned because of the conventional wisdom that says keep the 
sparge time as long as possible.  Despite the conventional wisdom I've not 
encountered a loss in efficiency due to shortening the sparge time. 
 Altogether, my total sparge time is more like 20-30 minutes.


Scott


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Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 09:15:23 -0500 (CDT)
From: Wesley McDaniel <wmcdanie at marlin.utmb.edu>
Subject: Equipment search

Does anyone in the Houston area know where I might find a large (8-10 
gallon) enamel-on-steel brewing kettle?  Are there any places that can order 
one for me?

- -----------------------------------------------------------------
   Wesley McDaniel              wesley.mcdaniel at utmb.edu
      University of Texas Medical Branch, Galveston
- -----------------------------------------------------------------


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Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 11:13:37 -0400
From: "Penn, Thomas" <penn#m#_thomas at msgw.vf.lmco.com>
Subject: Removal of Champagne "Trub"

Regarding the question of how champagne makers remove the bottle-fermentation
yeast from the bottles:
What they do is invert the bottles, and let the yeast and crap settle in the
neck of the bottle.  When it is settled and cleared, they chill the neck of
the bottle in sub-freezing brine and freeze a "slug" of yeast and crap.  Then
they open the bottles and allow the slug to be pushed out by the carbonation
in the bottle, and voila, clean champagne.  I believe that the rest of the
bottle contents are cold also, so CO2 loss is minimized.  While they have the
bottle open, they often tinker with the stuff and add/mix in other stuff (like
cognac or other vintages of champagne) and give this process the elegant name
"dosage"-pronounced in french as "doh-sahg".  I used to think that
bottle-fermented champagne was a very simple, pure process, but they seem to
do a lot of mucking around with ingredients to make it.  Hope this explains
it.

Tom Penn
Bordentown, NJ

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Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 10:32:17 -0500 (CDT)
From: Steve Piatz <piatz at cray.com>
Subject: Re: Technology Brewing and Malting


Glenn Raudins <raudins at lightscape.com> asks about Technology Brewing
and Malting:

> Has anyone seen the book "Technology Brewing and Malting" available from
> VLB Berlin?  It is supposedly the english translation of THE german
> textbook used in training.  Does anyone know of any retailers this side
> of the Atlantic that may have this book?  Otherwise it is ordering from
> Germany.
> 
> Information on the book can be found on the web at:
> http://www.vlb-berlin.org/english/kunze/index.html

I have the book, I ordered it from VLB.

I haven't finished reading the book, yet.  I find it to be a very good
reference, in the same class as DeClerk.  The text is a very well
produced book with lots of figures, tables and references.  The
descriptions of professional brewing equipment are modern unlike
DeClerck (which was written about 40 years ago).  There is a lot of
information on commercial methods and equipment as expected.  The
technical information is well written and presented in a clear manner
(take a look at the web page for samples).  One nit would be that lot
of the figures are captioned in German with the translation at the
bottom of the figure - I suppose that kept the translation and English
language production costs down.

As a German text the descriptions of beer styles does tend to focus on
German-style beers.  Don't expect to learn about lambic brewing
techniques in this book.
- -- 
Steve Piatz

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Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 11:36:41 -0400
From: "Lee Carpenter" <leec at redrose.net>
Subject: Peat Taste in Extract Brews


Fellow stir-doctors,

What is the best way to impart a natural peat taste in an extract beer? I
want to attempt a clone of S.A. Scotch Ale.


Lee C. Carpenter

"You can't be a real country unless you have a beer and an airline--it
helps if you have some kind of football team, or some nuclear weapons,
but at the very least you need a beer."
                                       -- Frank Zappa

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Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 10:12:57 -0700
From: RANDY ERICKSON <RANDYE at mid.org>
Subject: Scotch Thread / Pat's HB Shop Woes

Ian in Fresno wishes he had never started the Scotch/Scottish thread,
but like most things on the HBD it's taken on a life of its own.  Personally, I
thought the discussions were pretty interesting.  A friend recently visited
Burlington Vermont and brought me back a signed copy of Greg
Noonan's "Scotch Ale" (What a gal!), and I've really enjoyed it.

While the rules are not hard and fast, Greg defines Scotch ale as having
OG's from 1.070 to 1.130 and Scottish ales from 1.030 to 1.050.

The differences between Scottish and English ales are many.  In addition
to the differences already described here recently, the Scots tended to
use shorter boils, lower temperature ferments (on the order of 50
degrees F), and lager-like aging.  There is also a tendency to use small
amounts of roasted barley (2-3%) rather than crystal or caramel malts
for flavor and color.

******************
I read with interest the exchange between Pat Babcock and the (part
time) proprietor of a HB shop out East.  I still don't understand what Pat
did wrong.  We homebrewers tend to be rather impulsive (when we're
not being anal) and when we decide to go buy supplies, we want to do it
now.  I saw Pat as fulfilling his duty as a customer by showing up at the
shop, and can empathize with his expression of frustration in not being
able to get in the door on two separate occasions.

Joe (the proprietor) then went on a disjointed ramble where he defended
his right to show up when he felt like it and accused Pat of trying to hurt
his business.  I might be able to buy this conspiracy theory if this were
Pat's first and only HBD post (like, uh, Joe's), but Pat's a respected
member of our community, dammit, and most everybody here knows
better.  I sure don't think Pat did anything wrong, and am puzzled by the
apology.

I would think that a shop owner would want to know when a customer
was dis-satisfied, rather  than have him take his business elsewhere
(which is what the majority of unhappy customers do).

Randy Erickson
Modesto, California
randye at mid.org (Business)
randye at worldnet.att.net (Home)

Stanislaus Hoppy Cappers
c/o Barley & Wine, Ceres, CA

"Beer makes you feel the way you ought to feel without beer." -- Henry
Lawson



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Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 11:17:35 -0500
From: Kent Tracy <kentt at informix.com>
Subject: iodophor, sparging, corn

As far as iodophor residue is concerned, I worry about residue when
preparing yeast starter bottles.  If the iodophor is not rinsed, is
the residue sufficient to negatively impact the development of a very
small yeast population?

- --------------------------

The batch sparging thread has me wondering... I fail to understand
the significant difference between maintaining a sparge water level
just above the grain bed (as I assume is the ideal for fly sparging),
and a sparge water level of arbitrary depth above the grain bed.
In other words, why trickle water in, balancing the flow, as
opposed to adding "batches"?  Is channeling theoretically the
drawback?  I seem to get similar extraction whether batch sparging
or fly sparging.

- -------------------------

jwilkins wrote:
> I have been told or read someplace (or both)  that enzymes in corn
> start converting sugar to starch as soon as the ear is pulled and
> that this action is stopped by cooking.

Is this plausible?  Do enzymes swing both ways and convert sugars
to starches?  I've heard the same explanation before, but now that
I have some fundamental understanding of enzymatic processes in
brewing, it seems rather backward.  By the way, the 150F rest while
cooking corn to boost sweetness sounds very interesting; I plan on
trying the same experiment!

Kent Tracy
kentt at informix.com
Lenexa, KS


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Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 09:23:52 -0700
From: Glenn Raudins <raudins at lightscape.com>
Subject: Chest Freezer Taps

Rob asks:
>I just bought a chest freezer for my kegs. Does anyone know where to
>buy taps for mounting on the top. Also are there any guidelines 
>for drilling holes in the sides and tops of freezers? (Besides 
>"Avoid drilling holes in the refrigerant lines") :-)

A good supply of tower taps for the top of the chest freezer and taps
with a shank for the front of refrigs, is Superior Products.  You can
find them on the web at http://www.superprod.com or 1-800-328-9800.  I
am considering purchasing a tower tap from them for my chest freezer
(just one of those things you never get around to.)

On drilling into the side of a chest freezer, don't.  From what I
understand you stand no chance of getting a tap through without going
through the cooling tubes.  So that leaves you two choices, either put a
tower tap on top (with some form of re-enforcement in the lid because
they are far too flexible now adays) or build a spacer between the lid
and the body (the hinges usually have an adjustment that will allow
this) and then put a tap with shank through this.  Enjoy

Glenn

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Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 13:00:44 -0400
From: "Mark Nelson" <menelson at mindspring.com>
Subject: RE: Champagne and clarity

Andy S. wrote:

> It's my understanding that proper champagne is fermented in the bottle.
>
>How then, do champagne manufacturers remove the yeast sediment from their
>bottles, producing such a crystal clear beverage?

Having just toured the Korbel champagne house in Sonoma County this
weekend, this is what I learned:

Of utmost importance, Korbel started a microbrewery called Russian River
Brewing.  It's right there at the vineyard!  Everyone seems to be jumping
on the microbrew band wagon.  Pretty passable to good brews, IM very HO.

Now to answer the question at hand, champagne made in the methode
champenoise tradition undergoes a primary fermentation in a large vessel
(at Korbel these were very old oak barrels so there wasn't any oak flavor).
 They are then bottled when the sugar content has dropped - at this point
the wine is still still (so to speak).  The bottle serves as a secondary
fermentation vessel.  The bottles are placed in "riddling" racks at an
angle which lets the yeast settle in the neck of the bottle.  The bottle is
turned one quarter turn and slammed back in the rack each day by, you
guessed it, The Riddler.  When the secondary fermentation is complete, the
neck of the bottle is frozen so the yeast plug is trapped.  The *bottle
cap* is then taken off and the yeast plug magically pops out leaving
carbonated wine still in the bottle.  At this point a small amount of sugar
water is added (called the dossage - made with cane sugar, if I remember
right).  Then a warmed cork is used to cork the bottle, and the metal
cage/label is put on.  A lot of this is mechanized in US champagne
production, much to the dismay of the French purists I imagine.

One interesting note,  The Riddler in the past was the highest paid
employee, and worked in a fencing mask and very heavy gloves in case the
hand-blown and highly pressurized bottles exploded on him.

Since I'm using bandwidth here, another trivial note.  All champagne have
wire cages, with (count 'em) six half twists.  This apparently is a Trivial
Pursuit question.

Also, other methods are used to produce quote-unquote champagnes and
sparkling wines, where the secondary fermentation is also in a large vessel
and the wine is filtered and carbonated at bottling.  This is the main
difference with the "methode" described above.


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Date: Thu, 19 Jun 97 11:34:00 EDT
From: "Bridges, Scott" <bridgess at mmsmtp.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM>
Subject: Manners



2 separate recent occurrences cause me to add the following unbrewing 
comment.....

Pat Writes:
>My sincere and heartfelt apologies.......

I'm not really sure if an apology was necessary or not, since I'm not sure 
you did/said anything out of line.  But, it's nice to know that it concerned 
you enough to apologize anyway.

Then, Ian writes:

>OK Guys! Knock it off! My reply regarding Scottish Ales was ment mostly =
>as a humorous post. It was definitely not meant to spark heated debate.
>
>You guys need to lighten up. Times too short and there are way too many =
>beers to brew to waste time yelling at each other over the e-mail ether.
>
>I regret ever having opened my electronic mouth, now. Does anyone know =
>of a site with a bigger sense of commerderie and humor?

Now, wait just a minute.  I think most of us got (and appreciated) your 
humor, at least I did.  But, unless I missed something, there wasn't even a 
remotely hostile comment made.  There were several opinions stated based on 
personal observations.  All very polite and certainly no yelling.  Healthy 
discussion about differences between English and Scottish ales, IMHO.  I 
think the overall tone of the HBD has improved drastically of late.  Good 
luck finding another group with a bigger sense of comraderie and humor......

Scott






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Date: Thu, 19 Jun 97 17:02:02 est
From: paa3983 at dpsc.dla.mil (Mike Spinelli)
Subject: A cool little sparge filter

HBDers,

Forgive my syntax,  as I've just come from a lunch featuring Franziskaner hefewe
izen, Rogue Nut Brown Nectar and last but not leat, Aventinus Weizenbock.

Anyway, here's a neat little gizmo for those who've while sparging, watch helple
ssly  with horror as small particulates flow thru your hose into your boil tun,
only to collect at the bottom and boil with the rest of your hard earned labor. 
It only took one instance od this to figure a way to capture the crud.

At the end of your sparge hose (the end that rests in the boilt tun), attach a
tee'd barb'ed fitting (see below) mine is brass.  the hose goes in the middle
barb, while a 1' piece of hose goes on each of the other two barbs.  You then
take a nylon hop bag and place the tee inside and sinch the cord tightly down
around the middle sparge hose barb.

With this gizmo, who cares if you see crap flowing towards your precious wort? 
It get's trapped by the gizmo,  As the level of your wort rises you can elevate
the bag so it doesn't sit on the bottom of the kettle.

No matter how your false bottom is configured, there's always a chance some crap
will sneak thru during the sparge.   
 

Works for me.             I   I  --- hose to mash tun
                  ^
            ______      ^ ______
                  <<<        >>>hose barbs       

                (the above gizmo is placed inside the                     nylon
hop bag)

Mike Spinelli
Cherry Hill NJ





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Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 18:41:00 -0700
From: "Grant W. Knechtel" <GWK at hartcrowser.com>
Subject: Cherry plambic

I've got a nice plambic perking away in the brew closet, and it's coming on
cherry season, and I have a newbie kind of question.

Given that true Belgian kriek cherries are getting scarce even in Belgium, can I
make a decent cherry plambic from commonly available American cherries?  Would
bing cherries have enough color to survive a year or more in tertiary with
brettanomyces?  Would they generate enough flavor to make it worth while? 
Should I just forget cherries and stick to raspberries?  If I do cherries,
should I pit the cherries or not?  Michael Jackson says they don't pit the kriek
cherries for kriek lambic, at least those that still use the original methods,
but those are, of course, kriek cherries.  Should I perhaps split the batch and
try both?  Any opinions on how much fruit per gallon?  TIA for the collective
interaction.
 -Grant

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