HOMEBREW Digest #2446 Mon 23 June 1997

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		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com

  Champagne/Yeast Removal (john.hamilton)
  Re: Motorized Mill (Joe Rolfe)
  Re: Motorising that *** Corona!  (on the cheap) (Spencer W Thomas)
  Pat's HB Shop Woes (Spencer W Thomas)
  Chest Fever ("C.PEKARIK")
  photoperiodism in hops/shipping beer (ensmingr)
  Bottle Pasteurization (KennyEddy)
  Batch vs Fly (KennyEddy)
  Re: Cherry plambic ("Joel Plutchak")
  Decoction Theories Put To Test (Rob Kienle)
  Closed System Pressurized Fermentation (Anonymous)
  wit (Kit Anderson)
  Sterile filters (Arnaud Viez)
  Kegging at WARM tempetures... (Volt Computer)" <a-branro at MICROSOFT.com>
  Beer Engine Question ("Roy R. Rimmele")
  Pub Without Beer Help ("Roy R. Rimmele")
  Quebec Fishing/drinking expedition, Diastatic Extract ("David R. Burley")
  Brewing with blackberries (Kevin Woolard)
  Re: Scotch Thread / Pat's HB Shop Woes ("Brian Dixon")
  IBU Calculation ("Layne and Katrise")
  RE: pLambic Kriek ("atonalcm")
  barley wine hurrah! (Rae Christopher J)
  Brewsletter Software? (Randy Erickson)
  Wits for Judges! (Jim Busch)
  Batch Sparging ("Kelly C. Heflin")
  Re:Batch Sparging / Copper ring (Gary Knull)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 16:02:21 +1000 From: john.hamilton at deetya.gov.au Subject: Champagne/Yeast Removal I used to make sparkling wines many years ago. I used as my main resource a book from the British Amateur Winemaker series called Making Wines With a Sparkle. Basically the main points were that when bottling you had to be very careful about the sugar available for the 'secondary' fermentation - I used a clinitest urine testing kit - as once used by diabetics. Too much sugar = explosive bottles. Note that champagne yeast can ferment to dryness levels and pressures which incapacitate our beer yeasts. Next was the 'reumage' or what someone else has called the 'riddling' process. This was achieved with much success by placing the inverted bottles in a plastic crate sitting on 1 inch of sponge in the boot of my car and driving around for a couple of weeks - the shaking settled all the yeast into the special secondary fermentation caps which had hollows in them to collect the yeast. Finally, dry ice was used to freeze the yeast into the caps for the 'degorgement' when the cap was removed and the slug of frozen yeast, champagne was ejected. Note the bottle was very cold when this was attempted and I once had a bottle explode on me. I was wearing a full face mask and a thick leather welders apron while handling the bottle under a thick blanket as I was totally sh*t scared of this happening - fortunately due to the extreme coldness of the bottle and the very small airspace I had left in the bottle, the explosion was not anything like I'd expected and I came out unharmed. I'd recommend that you take very precaution you can until you can find out what level of carbonation/pressures you get. Read the book, it's an eye opener and give some great advice. Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 09:00:45 -0400 (EDT) From: Joe Rolfe <onbc at shore.net> Subject: Re: Motorized Mill try a riding lawnmower transmission, then you have several "forward" speeds and a reverse that can help back "crap" out. coupling the motor to the mill should be done with some type of slip joint/belts to the OSHA person - i did not intend to suggest electrical short cuts in my previous post...but you would be surprised to see how many commercial breweries do not even follow the local regs as to milling. most local inforcement people have no clue what "brewery" means. most do not even know what tag out/lock out means or "confined space". sorry for the confusion.... joe Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 09:04:09 -0400 From: Spencer W Thomas <spencer at engin.umich.edu> Subject: Re: Motorising that *** Corona! (on the cheap) A couple of years ago, I took the cue from a post to the HBD and found a used ice cream maker motor for $3. I looked for an older one with a metal "gear" in the bottom, after chewing up the plastic "gear" in the one on my (working) ice cream maker. A couple pieces of wood, a few bolts, some solder, and a lot of filing produced a motorized Corona mill. Yeah, it's kind of slow, but I don't have to stand there and watch it. The ice cream maker motor has an automatic cutoff if it jams (with a rock, e.g.), since it's designed to turn the ice cream canister until it stops (which means the ice cream is done). So, look around at local junk stores and flea markets. There are probably still some out there, just waiting for a new life. =Spencer Thomas in Ann Arbor, MI (spencer at umich.edu) Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 09:23:02 -0400 From: Spencer W Thomas <spencer at engin.umich.edu> Subject: Pat's HB Shop Woes Well, I can see both sides. Pat's unhappy because the store wasn't open. On the other hand, Joe's in a bind. One idea for Joe: even if you can't afford help, are there local homebrewers (who you trust) who would be willing to fill in for you in exchange for a discount or some free supplies? I have a friend who has an arrangement like this with a local homebrew shop. Seems like a win-win situation in general. =Spencer Thomas in Ann Arbor, MI (spencer at umich.edu) Return to table of contents
Date: 20 Jun 97 09:32:29 EDT From: "C.PEKARIK" <74163.1163 at CompuServe.COM> Subject: Chest Fever Hello After all the talk of the tap towers, $$$$$$!!! YES You can drill through walls of a chest freezer. Granted, if you blindly make holes you're bound to hit a tube but if you pull off the plastic top of the wall and pull out insulation to view location of cooling tubes. On the 2 freezers I've converted, the tubes ran horizontally at 2" intervals and the shank hole is 1".....tons of room. I was (at 1st) concerned that the tighening of the tap shank nuts would dent in the freezer walls and hurt the cooling tubes but all went well as long as you don't crank the heck out of it. After measuring the tube locations, I was able to mount a 15 1/2" SS drip tray, Co2 dist. mantifold and small holes for Co2 in, attaching all stuff with self tapping screws. Replace insulation and away you go. The only draw back .....too easy access for children. And the plus, aside from cheaper cost, not only do you do elbow bends daily but tone up with deep knee bends too. I welcome any questions. Larry Kress RR # 22, Station Preston, Cambridge, Ontario, Canada Email: 74163.1163 at compuserve.com (Email # is my mates but I live here too) Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 10:10:23 -0400 From: ensmingr at npac.syr.edu Subject: photoperiodism in hops/shipping beer The recent thread on photoperiodism in hops rang a little bell in my head. So I did a little reading and discovered information which may interest some of you. The first unequivocal demonstration of photoperiodic induction of flowering was by the Frenchman Julien Tournois with the plant Humulus japonicus (Japanese hops). In his 1913 paper, Turnois concluded 'precocious flowering in young plants of hemp and hops occurs when they are exposed to very short periods of illumination' (1913, Ann Sci Nat Bot [Paris] ser.19, 49). Regretably, this was Turnois' last paper, for he was killed in 1914 as a soldier in WW-I. For a more accessible discussion on the history of research on photoperiodism and flowering, see: Evans, LT (1969) The Induction of Flowering. Cornell University Press. ................................................................. Regarding the recent thread on shipping beer ... I contacted UPS, USPS, FedEx, and RPS and asked them about their policies on shipping beer bottles. USPS, FedEx, and RPS said they would not ship beer bottles. UPS said it does not allow INTERstate shipping of beer bottles. It does allow INTRAstate shipping of beer bottles in California, Michigan, Illinois, and New York. As a part-time UPS employee, I will add that I have personally unloaded several 48 foot trucks loaded entirely with 12-packs of beer bottles from one of those clubs ('Beer Across America'?). Cheers! Peter A. Ensminger ensmingr at npac.syr.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 11:17:51 -0400 (EDT) From: KennyEddy at aol.com Subject: Bottle Pasteurization Allen Czajkow asks about pasteurizing beer in the bottle: "Finally, in the most recent edition of the Mead Lovers Digest, there was a comment that someone had killed yeast by putting the bottles into a 140 degree hot water bath for about an hour. Any thoughts on what this may do to beer? After the bath, the remaining active yeast flocced and dropped out of suspension very quickly. It seems to me that this might improve the beers stability over time if you are force carbonating anyway, want to stop the fermentation at some level of resdiual sugars (especially if doing extract and can't control the mash temp/time), or may be used if you want to bottle a still beer (ala Sam Adams Triple Bock). Or am I completely crazy for even concidering this? - IMNTK." During the malta thread a few weeks ago, I had thought of Charlie Pappazian's assertion that holding the bottles at such-and-such temperature for such-and-such period would pasteurize the product (since there's lots of sugar and no alcohol, malta's shelf life presumably is short without such measures). Don't know if this is valid but my thought was that if the product in the bottle (whatever it is) is carbonated, that heating would drive off the CO2 form solution and overpressurize the bottle. This could result in flying bottlecaps or exploding bottles. Any thoughts? ***** Ken Schwartz El Paso, TX KennyEddy at aol.com http://members.aol.com/kennyeddy Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 11:16:26 -0400 (EDT) From: KennyEddy at aol.com Subject: Batch vs Fly Kent Tracy asks about batch sparging vs "fly sparging": "The batch sparging thread has me wondering... I fail to understand the significant difference between maintaining a sparge water level just above the grain bed (as I assume is the ideal for fly sparging), and a sparge water level of arbitrary depth above the grain bed. In other words, why trickle water in, balancing the flow, as opposed to adding "batches"? Is channeling theoretically the drawback? I seem to get similar extraction whether batch sparging or fly sparging." In my experience, adding too much water to the mash tun (i.e., more than a couple inches over the grain bed), especially early-on, could potentially leave a lot of dissolved sugar in the top of the water, which may never make it to the kettle when the desired volume has been sparged. I like to sparge relatively close to the top of the grain for the first portion of the sparge; only after the water on top is quite clear do I allow the depth to increase. At this point, what I have is basically a plain-water plunger pushing out sugar-water below. Just where on God's Green Earth did the term "fly sparging" come from? I've had flies visit my brewery before, but I try like hell to keep them out of the sparge... ***** Ken Schwartz El Paso, TX KennyEddy at aol.com http://members.aol.com/kennyeddy Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 10:05:37 -0500 From: "Joel Plutchak" <joel at bolt.atmos.uiuc.edu> Subject: Re: Cherry plambic In HDB #2445, Grant W. Knechtel asked: [Heavily edited] >...it's coming on cherry season, and I have a newbie kind of question. >...can I make a decent cherry plambic from commonly available American >cherries? Would they generate enough flavor to make it worth while? >...should I pit the cherries or not? Any opinions on how much fruit >per gallon? TIA for the collective interaction. I'm sorta in the same boat. I've never brewed with berries, but right now I've got a tree full of rapidly ripening cherries of some sort in my front yard. Something like a cherry stout keeps coming to mind, but I'm utterly ignorant about how to evaluate the quality of the cherries, what quantity to use, when to use them, how to process them, etc. Any tips or pointers to procedures would be heartily appreciated; I'd like to get something at least approaching drinkability without going through a huge amount of experimentation. - -- Joel Plutchak Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 10:28:58 -0500 From: Rob Kienle <rkienle at interaccess.com> Subject: Decoction Theories Put To Test After long hiatus from my last frustrated decoction (the beer has always turned out fine but the brewing's a pain - looonnng conversion times mostly), and after careful re-reading of Noonan and a review of saved posts from the endless decoction thread of this Spring...I conducted my first "reinformed" decoction last weekend. Two assumptions: 1) At least half the original purpose of decoction mashing was to manage temperature rests, and my 20th-century approach gives me a more convenient way for managing temps. Hence I relied mostly on direct heat application to manage protein rests and avoid sac/dex temp ranges while managing the decoction. Because this was in part a test, I used just a single large decoct so I could give it sufficient attention. 2) This was the third test batch for an altbier. The previous two were infusion mashed; this one was meant as a comparison of a traditional ingredient mix (ie, no crystal) vs a spiked (ie slight amounts of crystal) infusion. In the previous batches, generated with a 135 dough-in/protein rest (see HBD thread on avoiding 122), I noticed a tremendous amount of break in the primary. Batch 1, cold aging as we speak, still appears cloudy and Batch 2 is in secondary prior to cold aging (the verdict's out). Hence, given the malts I'm using (all imported), I reconsidere the 122 rest to help reduce break and improve clarity. Again based on the HBD thread, I had a quandry about using the 122 rest while decocting without degrading too many medium-weight proteins. I also wanted to avoid going to my 149 sac rest (appropriate for an alt) too soon, since even a smooth decoct will take an hour to complete. Hence my decision to use technology and not the decoct to mediate temp rises. The rationale, thankfully, is much more involved than the procedure. I doughed in at 104 for 15 mins, then applied heat to rise to 122. Held about 20 mins and pulled about 30-40% very thick decoction, to which I added a small amount of water to aid in conversion and heated to 150. When the main mash had rested at 122 for 30 mins, while still working on the decoct, I direct-heated the mash from the low PR temp to 135 and parked there throughout the remainder of my decoct manipulation. An hour and a half later I had successfully converted the decoct to a negative iodine and 30 min boil, and re-introduced it to the mash. The mash only went to about 142 so I again added heat to rise to 149. An hour later the iodine checked out quite negatively and I was overjoyed. An important point for me, I think, was that in studying the traditional German 40-50-60-70 technique, I finally figured out that even when using the decoct for temp rises, both thick decocts are made *before* getting to sac temps (one between 40-50, and the other between 50-60). So I'm quite sure my prevous problems were due to returning unconverted starches to a converted mash if a thick decoction is taken during sac or dex resting. On my next batch, I may attempt two decocts (I believe a third, thin decoct is unnecessary in modern times since all the thin stuff gets boiled anyway), though I am undecided as to when to pull them. The point I wanted to make through this lengthy post is that the HBD theories tested out most excellently and that having the ability to manage mash temps separately from decoct manipulation gives us a distinct advantage over our antique counterparts, and we should use this advantage accordingly. In addition, the use of a *limited* 122 rest (limited based on the ability to boost its temp to a safer *long-term* parking spot of 135 independently of decoct manipulation) seems to have paid off well. This third batch had considerably less initial sediment in the primary than my previous two. I should note, however, that unlike my previous tries, I allowed the hot wort (irish-moss enhanced) to sit for a full 20 minutes to settle out before racking into the primary (through hop-layered false bottom and CF chiller). Not sure if this was a factor. Time will tell as to the clarity, taste, etc. of the finished beer. For now I'm happy to report that I hit my projected 1.048 SG right on target and with verified starch conversion all along the way. - ------- Cheers4Beers, Rob Kienle Chicago, IL rkienle at interaccess.com Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 17:46:38 +0200 (MET DST) From: nobody at REPLAY.COM (Anonymous) Subject: Closed System Pressurized Fermentation To the collective; Thanks in advance for your help on this. I've just finished reading Teri Fahrendorf's excellent article _Closed System Pressurized Fermentation_ in the 1992 special issue of Zymurgy. Does anybody out there in beer land actually use this process? It certainly sounds like the way to go. Some questions: ...I can't seem to find some of the equipment needed for the setup, at least at the homebrew shops around me, any suggestions ? ...How do you take specific gravity readings in a closed system to know when to transfer to the secondary, or is it just guesswork at that point? I'm sure you could siphon from the out/liquid connect, but wouldn't you just get the yucchy sediment layer? ...After vigorous activity and blowoff in the primary, how do you top off in the secondary to get a full five gallons while maintaining a closed system? Don't want to waste the bandwidth in case no one responds, but in the event you do, I can post a more detailed description of Teri's process. Again, thanks. By the way, sorry for the dummy email address, I can't do it any other way right now. Obviously, I can't receive private email. BoboBrazil - --- Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 09:09:27 -0400 From: Kit Anderson <kitridge at bigfoot.com> Subject: wit >I'm not familiar with either the BrewTek or YCKC Wit yeast, but I have >brewed numerous times with Wyeast Wit 3944. I've taste tested my Wit >head-to-head with Celis (and separately Celis with Hoegaarden). My Wit was >very similar to Celis (and I couldn't distinguish bet. Celis and Hoegaarden > -- ok, it was at the last stop on a pub crawl). What different profile >would you get using these other yeasts over Wyeast? I'm curious what >difference I could expect in a Wit fermented with them. BrewTek and YCKC taste the same. Breadier and less phenolic than Wyeast. BrewTek's culture is on steriods. Very vigorous and it will be done in 5-7 days. Wyeast takes weeks. Funny... it didn't use to. >My normal approach to adding spices in a Wit is to add 1/2 with 15 min left >in the boil and 1/2 at flame out. This seems to keep some amount of flavor >and aroma of the spices. I use about 2 oz. of both coriander and Curacao >orange peel in total. Try adding half at the last 10 minutes and half in secondary. - --- Kit Anderson Bath, Maine <kitridge at bigfoot.com> I suppose that it's theoretically possible for a Yankee to make decent barbecue. But it sure ain't a pretty thought! -Smokey Pitts Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 19:10:16 +0200 (MET DST) From: Arnaud Viez <aviez at teaser.fr> Subject: Sterile filters Hello brewers, am I the only french homebrewer writing here? I am studying the opportunity of the creation of a micro-brewery, brewing english-type brands. We plan to bottle our beer, without refermentation, and so without adding any yeast in the bottles. For the beer to have a comfortable shelf life, we don't want to use pasteurization (sorry for this awful word, I won't do it again), and we have been told that the use of sterile filters is very safe and will avoid any contamination or instability of the bottled beer. Is there anyone having information about that, or any opinion? -------------------------------------------------- | Arnaud VIEZ, Saint-Quentin-en-Yvelines, France | | Web : http://www.teaser.fr/~aviez | | Minitel : 3614 Teaser bal Guinness | | Skrivit din e brezhoneg ! | -------------------------------------------------- Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 09:52:32 -0700 From: "Brander Roullett (Volt Computer)" <a-branro at MICROSOFT.com> Subject: Kegging at WARM tempetures... I have been trying to get into kegging, and been having problem with FOAMing in a big way. I have been told that i need to keep the kegs cool, but i cannot afford (space and money) to get a beer fridge, plus i wanna take them camping and stuff with me (medieval style, i do SCA) so thats not really an option either... what tricks have the experienced keggers used to to Carbonate at warmer tempetures? Any advice you all can give is great.... Plus anyone build a portable bar out of wood with a draft system? i would like to build a case for 3 kegs that has an extended (upwards) back peice that has 3 taps in it. build it with wheels (like a handtruck) and make it look like a free standing cabinet (hide the hoses)... i would love to hear how other people have done portable draft systems... Brander (Badger) Roullett badger at nwlink.com a-branro at microsoft.com Brewing: http://www.nwlink.com/~badger/badgbeer.html - ----------------------In The SCA---------------------- Lord Frederick Badger of Amberhaven, TWIT, Squire to Sir Nicholaus Red Tree Pursuivant-Madrone, An Tir Marshal-College of St Bunstable It's not enough to be able to pick up a sword. You have to know which end to poke into the enemy. - (Terry Pratchett, Lords and Ladies) Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 97 11:58:01 -0400 From: "Roy R. Rimmele" <flossbos at mindport.net> Subject: Beer Engine Question I'm interested in possibly obtaining and using a beer engine with a "corny" keg instead of a CO2 bottle. I know that many of the pubs draw their ales...with these 'pumps' in the UK. I have a couple of questions about them though as I'm still a relatively new homebrewer. If a beer engine is used, will the beer have to be used in a short period of time to keep it from going flat? Or assuming that priming sugar was used, will the CO2 formed be sufficient to keep the beer pressurized and 'fresh'? If this is too basic, I apologize, as I said I've only been brewing for a short period of time........Roy > Roy R. Rimmele > flossbos at mindport.net > flossboss at aol.com 'So much beer.....so little time! Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 97 12:06:26 -0400 From: "Roy R. Rimmele" <flossbos at mindport.net> Subject: Pub Without Beer Help I've been fortunate enough to be in London several times in the past couple of years. Unfortunately, when I was there I was not a home brewer, hence my query for help. Does anyone out there have any information about a store in the Convent Garden area of London, called 'A Pub Without Beer'. I'm interested in either writing or calling them. They carry anything you can think of beer/pub related. (I don't think they do home brew supplies). i.e. glasses, coasters, pitchers, towels, mirrors........and I think beer engines. I'm looking for a correct mailing address, and or telephone number so I can contact them. Can anyone help. Thanks.......Roy > Roy R. Rimmele > flossbos at mindport.net > flossboss at aol.com 'So much beer.....so little time! Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 13:25:29 -0400 From: "David R. Burley" <Dave_Burley at compuserve.com> Subject: Quebec Fishing/drinking expedition, Diastatic Extract Brewsters: Wow! was I impressed with Quebec and Montreal specifically. Not only did I have a great time fishing for Walleye and Pike in the La Verendrye Park at Domaine Shannon, Jacques Bourdouxhe's recommendations of locally produced Belgian style beers were right on the money. Following Jacques' instructions we went to a supermarket (!!!) to buy these beers. La Fin Du Monde - a Gueuze style was exceptional but all were extremely good and to type. Picture this. A bunch of fisherman, and an outdoor writer/international bow-only bear hunter sitting in a cabin in full outdoor regalia in the Canadian Northwoods evaluating beers. Writer/bear hunter says "Nice bouquet" when offered a La Fin. Later after we had a "evaluated" a few more ( Duvel clones, Bocks, etc, etc.) he said "I don't now about you, but I'm getting hammered" On the way back we stopped in Montreal and stayed at a small hotel in the Vieux Montreal area. Shades of Old Paris! Jacques unfortunately had another appointment, so we missed the opportunity to meet. But there was a beer festival in the pavillion at the old port area. 200 international beers provided by local distributors for a fair price by the glass! Many, many Belgian beers to my surprise. My lawnmower beer drinking buddy fell in love with the bananas in La Chouffe and the many faces of Rodenbach Gran Cru ( great with the Saucisse Toulouse avec Moutarde - French Style grilled sausage on a roll with mustard)). After we had sampled many types, he said "I never imagined such variety in tastes." Now we only have 249,999,999 more to convince. Claude at the Boreale booth was a fisherman ( "Ah, yes you Americans always go for the big Pike!") and we talked for a long time about fishing while he provided the Rouge glass by continuing glass for free. Great time. I recommend you re-visit Montreal/Quebec for the French ambiance, excellent food, friendly people as well as the availability of great local and imported beers. - -------------------------------------- In response to many private and HBD questions (Heiner Lieth, for example) here are my recommendations for handling diastatic malt extracts. The following techniques can be an excellent stepping-stone to all-grain brewing. Too often extract brewers blindly follow the recipe to add things like flaked barley and other starchy adjuncts without treating this recipe any differently than a straight extract recipe. Starchy adjuncts need to be handled differently. Use Diastatic malt extracts to reduce starch haze and free up your crystals', Chocolate's, etc full taste. If the can doesn't say diastatic - it isn't. Try EDME's offering of diastatic extracts. No Affiliation. Yadda, yadda. Starchy adjuncts have nothing to offer except problems without the diastatic power of the extract First rule - ONLY use pre-gelatinized adjuncts - like flaked barley or corn, or pre-gelatininize any adjuncts like corn meal or cream of wheat by cooking before use. Second rule - keep the amount of starch containing adjuncts to less then 20 - 30% of the grist depending on the diastatic power of the extract. 10% is a good place to start. Third rule - When handling diastatic malts do not add the extracts at the boil, but hold them in solution in the presence of the milled or flaked, gelatinized adjuncts at 155-158 for 15 -30 minutes before removing the grain bag, rinsing and then boiling. So here's how it goes. Add the adjuncts in a grain bag to hot water, add the extract, allow to stand 15-30 minutes at 158F to prevent losing any dextrins originating in the extract, remove the grain bag, rinse with hot water and boil, add hops, etc. The temperature of the strike liquor (brewing water) will depend on the amount of adjuncts used and the volume of the water in the boiler. - ------------------------------------------------------------------- Keith asks about the number of atmospheres of CO2 to carbonate wine for imitation bubbly. Numbers like 3-5 atmospheres are typical, but dangerous if you use old glass *Champagne* bottles, as scratches weaken the glass considerably. Never try to reuse US weak thin walled sparkling wine bottles at this high a pressure as they will not stand it reliably. True Champagne bottles have a crown cork type top like a beer bottle and are very heavy glass with a deep punt (indent) in the bottom. Best way is to carbonate in a keg, Counter Pressure fill the *cold* bottles with *cold* carbonated wine. Stopper and wire the tops down immediately. I recommend starting with plastic bottles to determine the carbonation you like, as they should work fine and be much less dangerous. - ------------------------------------------------------------------ On a related topic Andrew Stavrolakis asks: >It's my understanding that proper champagne is fermented in the bottle. >How then, do champagne manufacturers remove the yeast sediment from their >bottles, producing such a crystal clear beverage? In the "methode Champagneoise", after fermentation with priming sugar (or young fermenting wine) in the bottle is complete, the wine is "riddled" by slowly upending (over several days or weeks) the crown corked (like a beer bottle) bottle until all the yeast has collected in the cap. The neck is frozen in a salt/ice mixture to trap the yeast residue in the ice and the cap removed, the ice plug is blown out (degorgement) and the degorgeur's thumb quickly placed over the neck, the "dosage" of wine/sugar/brandy in various ratios are added depending on the champagne style (extra brut, brut, etc.) and the cork is inserted and wired down. The high pressure in the bottle (5-6 atmospheres at the beginning) makes this procedure necessary to have a completely clear wine all the way through. Sometimes Italian sparkling wines are less carbonated and can be poured into a number of waiting glasses off the lees like we do bottle conditioned beer. Of course, mama always gets the last cloudy glass "for her complexion". Ain't mamas great the word over?! Bulk method carbonates in a tank with CO2, filters and bottles. Some bottles which say fermented in THE bottle (rather than fermented in THIS bottle or methode' Champagnoise) are fermented in the bottle, aged on the yeast and then the carbonated wine withdrawn from the bottle under pressure, filtered and rebottled in clean bottles to avoid the extremely labor intensive riddling and disgorging process. This latter method makes a wine nearly as good as the Methode Champ.. if it is aged on the yeast for more than a yeast as in the original method. - ---------------------------------------- Keep on brewin' Dave Burley Kinnelon, NJ 07405 103164.3202 at compuserve.com Dave_Burley at compuserve.com Voice e-mail OK Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 97 11:04:26 PDT From: kev at flyer.gvg.tek.com (Kevin Woolard) Subject: Brewing with blackberries Oh wise ones of the brew, I am going to have a bumper crop of blackberries at my house (Northern Cal.), and I would very much like to include some in my next beer. Does anyone have a favorite recipe? I have never brewed with fresh fruit so any advice would be appreciated. Direct e-mail is fine. Brew on!! Kevin Woolard Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 11:40:25 +0100 From: "Brian Dixon" <brian_dixon at om.cv.hp.com> Subject: Re: Scotch Thread / Pat's HB Shop Woes [snip] >The differences between Scottish and English ales are many. In addition >to the differences already described here recently, the Scots tended to >use shorter boils, lower temperature ferments (on the order of 50 >degrees F), and lager-like aging. There is also a tendency to use small >amounts of roasted barley (2-3%) rather than crystal or caramel malts >for flavor and color. [snip] Randy, I think you'll like Noonan's book on Scotch and Scottish ales. For example, it'll clarify some things like your comment above about shorter boils (etc). On that note, I believe (check the book) that longer not shorter boils are used and is what's responsible for some of the caramel flavor found in Scotch and Scottish ales. Somewhere in there are instructions for caramelizing the wort a bit by lautering right into the boil pot while the boil pot is on a fairly high heat. The initial wort gets caramelized, but quits caramelizing as the depth of wort prevents high temperatures in the boil pot. I'll take a look in the book and see if I can find out more on this stuff (now that you mention it). The comment on the roasted barley surprised me too, but I can't think why. It's been 2-3 months since I last looked at Noonan's book, so I'll take a fresh new look at it myself. Brian Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 11:44:26 -0700 From: "Layne and Katrise" <wetpetz at oberon.ark.com> Subject: IBU Calculation Hey all, I have questions for the brewers with spread sheet brew calculators. I've been working on a great little spreadsheet to figure out what my recipes should do for me in reality. I've been using Papazian's Utilization chart to get my bitterness extraction down with a constant of 1.35 in the following formula. IBU = #oz hops x %Alpha Acid x %Utilization >------------------------------------- >total gallons x Constant My question is this. How can I adjust the resulting IBU value when I am using whole hops and plugs? I've been using the above calculation for pellets. Should I adjust the %Utilization by -10% or should I use a different Constant for whole hops? Is there a formula I can use in a spreadsheet to give me a %Utilization number based on wort boil gravity? I hate having to compare the numbers to a chart to get an approximate %Utilization number for my calculator. Does anyone use a different Constant other that 1.35? If so Why? Thanks all, Layne & Katrise Rossi wetpetz at oberon.ark.com Campbell River, BC *********************************************************** To try and fail is better than failing because we didn't try! *********************************************************** Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 1996 15:28:18 -0400 From: "atonalcm" <atonalcm at bestweb.net> Subject: RE: pLambic Kriek >From: "Grant W. Knechtel" <GWK at hartcrowser.com> >Subject: Cherry plambic >....can I make a decent cherry plambic from commonly available American cherries? You might want to use a portion of "sour cherries" (around 25%-50%) to approximate the Sharbeek (sp) cherries. Otherwise the cherry flavor might seem a little like the cherry flavor you would get in cherry flavored Jello. >Would bing cherries have enough color to survive a year or more in tertiary with brettanomyces? I'm not sure what color you are shooting for, but the color range for a Kriek is rather "wide open"! >If I do cherries, should I pit the cherries or not? DO NOT PIT THEM!! :>) The inclusion of the pits adds to the complexity of the cherry flavor profile....If you include the pits, it should prevent it from tasting like cherry syrup. >Should I perhaps split the batch and try both? [pitted and not pitted] no, use all the pits. >Any opinions on how much fruit per gallon? I've seen some seemingly authentic recipies with up to 2 lbs of cherries per gallon of wort. Good Luck Chris Milmerstadt Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 16:01:32 -0400 (EDT) From: Rae Christopher J <3cjr7 at qlink.queensu.ca> Subject: barley wine hurrah! in about 14 days i will begin a marvelous endeavor, but i'd like the collective's final word on my recipe and plan, as it would be a major shame to waste all this wort and money... recipe: 1# 40L crystal malt hold at 170F for 45 mins, with grains in a grain bag, in 2 gal filtered h2o. remove bag and wash with 1 gal h2o at 170F add: 12# light malt extract syrup (unhopped) 2# honey 2 oz chinook plugs boil for 30 mins add: 3 oz fuggles 1 tsp irish moss boil for 30 mins add: 1 oz fuggles remove from heat and steep 2 mins, then immersion chill strain, and pour onto yeast cake from last batch --Wyeast 1728 (scottish ale?). beware exploding krausen. ferment for ~ a week at 70F, so sg gets below 1.020, then transfer to glass carbouy. ferment ~ one month at 60F. add a pack of dry champagne yeast, and ferment one more week, or until fermentation is complete (this was recomended in case the 1728 can't handle the high alcohol, which is unlikely). add finings (1 tsp gelatin in 3 oz boiled, cooled water). let sit 3 days. add 1.25 cups extra light dry malt extract. bottle. let age 'till new year's...drink...mmm. am i about to make a grievous error? i can't think of any, but i do miss the obvious on occasion. am i using enough hops at each stage? am i adding the irish moss at the correct time? please reply to me personally; i'll digest the responses, and update the collective from my brewing diary as the brewing progresses. ___________________________________________________________ This is Chris' signature: C____ R__ &% His home page is at http://qlink.queensu.ca/~3cjr7/ Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 14:20:25 -0700 From: Randy Erickson <RANDYE at mid.org> Subject: Brewsletter Software? Greetings all: This is a bit off topic, but it turns out the person who publishes our club newsletter cannot continue, and we are at risk of losing it if someone doesn't step up. Since I'm one of the few who has a (barely) decent computer and a printer, I'm inclined to offer my help, but I have absolutely no desktop publishing experience. Can anyone affiliated with publishing a club newsletter offer any advice or experience? Are there any relatively affordable programs out there which are easy for a tech type (but no artist) to use? Is there anything suitable that I'm overlooking (like in MS Office)? Thanks very much -- Randy in Modesto Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 17:59:23 -0400 (EDT) From: Jim Busch <busch at eosdev2.gsfc.nasa.gov> Subject: Wits for Judges! Glad to see that Bill Ridgely still reads the digest! <nyone who has seen a yeast press at work in a Scottish brewery <(a pretty messy operation) can see the potential problems, as <well as the reason huge amounts of pressed cake are pitched in <subsequent batches. Brings back images of my last tour through Fullers where they employ a gigantic yeast press containing scores of plates and some really nasty drippings! Whoever said brewing had to be impeccibly clean has not visited old UK or Belgian brewhouses! As much as Im a proponent of super clean well made Germanic lagers, I sometimes feel we have lost or are losing some of the character and charm of the old world methods of brewing. While I welcome the consistency of the recent years Pilsner Urquell I also miss the occasional special pint that seems to exceed all typical ones in its prefection. While the average state of some beers may improve with technology I think we dismiss some of the individual character that is sometimes wonderful. Or maybe Ive just been away from Belgium and Franconia for too long! Kit clears up some of his reasoning behind spicing his wit in the secondary: <The orange peel can be boiled or added at secondary. I have found most US <judges expect citrus aroma. Orange in particular. A lot of this comes from <the right yeast. I haven't found Curacao to add any orange aroma. So I add <sweet orange peel to the secondary for the judges. Well there you have it! Kit wants to WIN RIBBONS, ;-) Sheesh and I just want to be able to replicate Celis or Hoegaarden. Silly me. I will note that the most aggressivly citrus Witbier Ive ever had is Raaf from the Netherlands. There is something about the poundability and refreshing character found in a Raaf on a nice day in Amsterdam. Or maybe its just that everyday seems nicer in Amsterdam.... <g>. I think Im getting nostalgic as I plan my next beer hunt! <The only time I didn't get a score above 38 was when I used corainder from <Penzey's. Hey if your brewing a Celis clone it should get a 50! Come on judges, dont be afraid to score a beer highly when it deserves it. If Im served a VogelBrau Pils or Prima Pils clone Ill judge it a 50. <Subject: Cut Your Nipples Everybody! And I expected this to be followed by a solicitation on yet another XXX web site! ;-) <I'm not familiar with either the BrewTek or YCKC Wit yeast, but I have <brewed numerous times with Wyeast Wit 3944. I also really like beers made from Wyeast Wit yeast. This yeast also makes very fine Belgian strong ales, you can even add some orange peel to the secondary. <g>. I just prefer to do business with Dr. Dan at YCKC, a personal thing you know. Prost! Jim Busch Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 20:18:42 +0000 From: "Kelly C. Heflin" <kheflin at mail.monmouth.com> Subject: Batch Sparging I've really enjoyed the posts about batch sparging. Always thought about it but never did it. I think I'm gonna go with the quick drain of the mash the add water and recirculate til clear. then quick drain again. Sounds like a good system. OK I;ll bite. I brew and juggle. Hey guess what. I also ride a unicycle...not while drinking or brewing.... there must be something funny here...don't know what it is... kelly Kelly Heflin kheflin at monmouth.com Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 18:30:37 -0600 From: Gary Knull <gknull at gpu.srv.ualberta.ca> Subject: Re:Batch Sparging / Copper ring "Bryan L. Gros" <grosbl at ctrvax.Vanderbilt.Edu> wrote: >People have been discussing the idea that it is easier to drain the >grain bed of liquid during the sparge rather than trying to monitor >the inflow and outflow of sparge water. > >I use such a copper ring to deliver my sparge water. I keep the hot >sparge water in a 5 gallon Gott to which I have added a ball valve >in place of the spigot. After recirculating the runoff a bit, I run the >wort from the mashtun (via a ball valve in the bottom of a converted >keg) to the boiler and raise the Gott up to deliver the sparge water >on top of the grain. It is a pretty simple thing, in my experience, to >match the flows. You watch for about five minutes to get them >in synch and check again in 20 minutes. Aiming for a one hour >sparge, the outflow is pretty low, so it requires very little >monitoring to be sure the level of sparge water is not too high or >too low. > >Just my experience. You're right, I didn't give it much of a chance and never got proficient at it. In the meantime, I got hooked on batch sparging and couldn't resist expounding on the benefits of it, real or imagined. I still feel that there is a time saving to be made with batch sparging without losing efficiency, especially using multiple rinses but I have no figures to back this up, other than the one time a year or so ago when I tried the traditional sparge and got no better efficiency. With all this batch-sparging talk, though, I see a number of experiments in my future to determine runoff SG and pH and sparge- time vs efficiency. Not that I feel the need to convert the traditional spargers among us; we all tend to hold on to our own procedures quite tenaciously. But if the results look interesting enough, I'll post them. Beers to you all, Gary Knull Edmonton, AB Canada Return to table of contents
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