---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com


Contents:
  computer controlled 120v lights (temp control)? (dbrigham)
  Substituting light extract for dark ("Richard Cuff")
  Opening Frozen beer ("Randy J. Lee")
  (root) beer (Brian Deck)
  recipes ("John Penn")
  Re: frozen beer (Mike Uchima)
  lager vs. ale fermentation (HOUCK KEITH A)
  3d Annual Metropulse/TN Valley Homebrewers Competition ("Barry Wertheimer")
  yeast flocculation / lemonade brewing (Dave Whitman)
  yet more yeast flocculation (Dave Whitman)
  realbeer server (Jim Liddil)
  Brewery Moving (kfl)
  Shipping Beer Story (long) (Mark T A Nesdoly)
  Alcohol bitterness/sweetness (korz)
  it's the water (BAYEROSPACE)
  Punkin Head Ale Closure (eric fouch)
  Forgive the 'newbie' question please...but ("LadyGodiva")
  RE: Homebrew in Pennsylvania (Rory Stenerson)
  Frozen Beer (Paul Ward)
  Brewing Lemonade/Bottle Kraeusen (eric fouch)
  Sanitation Simplicity Pt 1: Kegs and Carboys (Rob Kienle)
  Sanitation Simplicity Pt 2: Bottles (Rob Kienle)
  SS Perf Plate Hole Size? ("Houseman, David L")
  Re: Bottle of ice questions ("Michael J. Westcott")
  phenolic vs. infection? (mirsjer)
  Re: Zima and other recipes (DGofus)
  Corona bottles (Randy Ricchi)


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Date: Tue, 08 Jul 97 07:24:10 EST
From: dbrigham at nsf.gov
Subject: computer controlled 120v lights (temp control)?

        I have an old Lego (sorry!!!  was for hobby projects) serial to 
        analog computer interface that gives me 8 outputs which I can 
        drive from 0v to 9v DC.  I'd like to use these outputs to 
        control some 120v incandescent lighting to control temperatures 
        in a 'closed box' insulated cooler for lagering.  The analog 
        outputs can be varied over 18 steps, so that equals .5v DC 
        increments.
        
        Does anyone have a simple circuit using a Triac or whatever to 
        use the 0v to 9v DC control current to dim a 120v AC load like a 
        light bulb?
        
        Thanks!!!
        
        Dana Brigham
        National Science Foundation
        dbrigham at nsf.gov


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Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 17:51:19 -0400
From: "Richard Cuff" <rdcuff at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Substituting light extract for dark

Hi all -

I'm somewhat new to the homebrew hobby, but I've already graduated to
specialty malts and liquid yeast, for whatever that's worth.

I've made the investment in a 33 lb pack of bulk M&F light extract to
keep costs down, especially since the delivered cost is under $1.25
per lb.  So far it has kept well.

I'd like to try brewing a porter, but most recipes call for all or a
portion of the extract to be dark extract, along with the chocolate
and/or black patent malt.  Is there a rule of thumb for using light
extract in lieu of dark extract -- e.g. one lb light extract plus 1/4
lb chocolate malt equals one lb dark extract?

Thanks in advance for any insight.

Regards,
Richard Cuff
Lutherville, MD



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Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 07:42:29 -0500
From: "Randy J. Lee"<rjlee at imation.com>
Subject: Opening Frozen beer





BTW: There is a common misconception that Ice beers are somehow frozen to
make them more potent. To do that would be a distillation process;
something the ATF seriously frowns on from a brewer (can't have brewers and
distillers in the same building). Ice beers are indeed frozen slightly
forming ice crystals at the available nucleation sites of some protein
sets, thus precipitating them out. The beer is then warmed up and filtered,
thus removing these other substances. This provides for a smoother brew, or
so they say. That they are higher in alcohol content is purely a marketing
thing; they are brewed that high to start with.

Randy Lee
Viking Brewing Company
Dallas, Wis.



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Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 09:05:10 -0500
From: deck at pathbox.wustl.edu (Brian Deck)
Subject: (root) beer

Hey:
        Does anybody know where I can find a recipe/protocol for root beer?
I remember reading all about it at some point, but I can't remember where
it was and I don't remember quite enough to do it from memory.  My wife
seems to think I should make some for some reason.  Seems like time I could
be using to make real beer, but you know how it goes.  Or maybe you don't,
if you're lucky.

Brian Deck




"I drank what?"

              -Socrates



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Date: 8 Jul 1997 10:19:01 -0400
From: "John Penn" <john_penn at spacemail.jhuapl.edu>
Subject: recipes

                       Subject:                               Time:9:39 AM
  OFFICE MEMO          recipes                                Date:7/8/97

  I checked out the gambrius (?) mug recipes based on that comment about the
Cats Meow being incomplete and I noticed the same problem in the mug recipes
with comments such as "its only been a week and I think this will be good...",
etc.  So far I have found some excellent recipes in the Cats Meow but the best
recipes are those with descriptions of the taste as well as details on the
ingredients and the brewing procedures used.  I like that kind of detail and
you can find it in Papazians recipes in both of his books.  Speaking of
recipes, anyone know a good ESB recipe?  
   As for that Old Ale malt kit, you'd probably be better off using it to make
a Strong English Ale.  I tried to make a Scotch Ale using that kit and some
unhopped light malt and I think there was a lot more bitterness in that kit
than I anticipated.  Might want to check the brewery for hopped malt kit
amounts.
  John Penn


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Date: Tue, 08 Jul 1997 09:20:42 -0500
From: Mike Uchima <uchima at mcs.net>
Subject: Re: frozen beer

OK, I guess I'll have to toss my own $.02 into this debate...

As Dave points out, the pressure isn't enough to depress the freezing
point *that* much, and in any case I suspect that there's enough
particulate matter in a typical bottle of beer (well, homebrew anyway)
that supercooling just isn't possible -- there are too many nucleation
sites for ice crystals. (Yes, I've observed this phenomenon with bottles
of unfiltered homebrew.)

Any gas will cool if allowed to expand -- this is the principle on which
refrigerators work. In a fridge, a gas is compressed (which heats it);
then it is circulated through the coils on the back of the fridge, which
cool it to near ambient (room) temperature; when the gas is subsequently
allowed to expand back to its original volume, it cools to significantly
*below* ambient temperature.

If the beer is very close to freezing already, opening the bottle --
i.e. allowing CO2 bubbles to form and *expand* in the beer -- will lower
the temperature enough to cause it to freeze.

- -- 
== Mike Uchima == uchima at mcs.net ==


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Date: Tue, 08 Jul 1997 14:40:00 +0000 (GMT)
From: HOUCK KEITH A <HOUCK_KEITH_A at LILLY.COM>
Subject: lager vs. ale fermentation

I have brewed a number of lagers which were fermented around 45 degrees F. 
Fermentation is always much slower than with an ale yeast at warmer 
temperatures--not that surprising but I am wondering how normal my 
fermentations are. For comparison purposes, I am interested in the 
observations of others. How much krauesen do you see? For how long? Is 
there visible churning of the wort like with an ale yeast? This past 
weekend, I brewed a Bohemian pilsner and pitched 240 billion yeasts into 
about 6 gal. Fermentation, at 45 degrees, was active the next morning with 
some krauesen. There is now approximately 3/4 inch krauesen, steady 
bubbling in the airlock, but no active churning. Thanks for your 
information.
Keith Houck
Carolina Fermenters Unlimited
Chapel Hill, NC


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Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 10:48:51 EST
From: "Barry Wertheimer" <wertheim at LIBRA.LAW.UTK.EDU>
Subject: 3d Annual Metropulse/TN Valley Homebrewers Competition

Brewers,

The third annual Metropulse/Tennessee Valley Homebrewers Club 
Competition will be held on July 26 in Knoxville, TN.  Entry fees are 
a mere $3, and there are lots of prizes, etc.

For more info, check out the TVHC homepage (look under "What's 
Brewin'") at: http://www.korrnet.org/tvha/
- ---------------------
Barry Wertheimer
wertheim at libra.law.utk.edu
Knoxville, TN

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Date: Tue, 08 Jul 1997 10:56:38
From: Dave Whitman <dwhitman at rohmhaas.com>
Subject: yeast flocculation / lemonade brewing

Steve Alexander and I have been having an off-line discussion about yeast
surface chemistry.  I did a search and came up with this interesting
reference I think is worth sharing with the collective:

****
Mechanisms of flocculation of flocculent yeast during wort fermentation.
I.  Relation between the behavior of the flocculent yeast cell and its
constituent proteins.  Ito, Umeno.  Mem. Coll. Sci., Univ. Kyoto, Ser. A
(1967), 31(2), 107-15.  CODEN: MSKAA4.  Journal written in English.  CAN
67:72455

Abstract
The protein of the flocculent yeast cell was mainly composed of zymocasein,
with an isoelec. point at pH 4.5, which pptd. when the pH was adjusted to
4.5 with acetic acid.  Zymocasein was a nucleoprotein; the yeast cell
behaved as an insol. protein particle with properties like the protein.
When this property of the yeast cells was demonstrated, it became possible
to explain the phenomenon of yeast flocculation.  37 references.
****

I'll try and get a copy of the full paper.  However, the abstract suggests
that if the pH of a fermentation drifted down to pH 4.5, yeast would
flocculate.  
Without actually doing the calculation, I can imagine CO2 driving the pH
into that pH regime.

Wasn't there a recent thread about brewing lemon flavored beers? Folks
experimenting with this should probably watch out for premature
flocculation, and rousing the yeast if necessary to get complete
fermentation.  
- ---
Dave Whitman          "The opinions expressed are those of the author, and not
dwhitman at rohmhaas.com  Rohm and Haas Co."


Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 08 Jul 1997 11:02:34
From: Dave Whitman <dwhitman at rohmhaas.com>
Subject: yet more yeast flocculation

A couple more interesting references on yeast surface chemistry:

****
Settling kinetics of champagne yeast.  Arikan, Ozlem; Ozilgen, Mustafa.
Food Eng. Dep., Middle East Tech. Univ., Ankara, 06531, Turk.  Enzyme
Microb. Technol. (1992), 14(9), 762-6.  CODEN: EMTED2; ISSN: 0141-0229.
Journal written in English.  CAN 117:149646

Abstract
Settling kinetics of champagne yeast were studied...
<big snip of long abstract>
 ...The first stage of the settling phenomenon was slower at pH 3.0,
implying that the isoelec. point of the yeast surfaces was about 3.0.

****
Surface properties of yeast cells:  chemical composition by XPS and
isoelectric point.  Van Haecht, Jean L.; Defosse, Camille; Van den Bogaert,
Bernard; Rouxhet, Paul G.  Fac. Sci. Agron., Univ. Cathol. Louvain,
Louvain-La-Neuve, B-1348, Belg.  Colloids Surf. (1982), 4(4), 343-58.
CODEN: COSUD3.  Journal written in English.  CAN 97:123292

- ---
Dave Whitman          "The opinions expressed are those of the author, and not
dwhitman at rohmhaas.com  Rohm and Haas Co."


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Date: Tue, 08 Jul 1997 08:08:18 -0700
From: Jim Liddil <jliddil at .azcc.arizona.edu>
Subject: realbeer server

> From: "Robert Marshall"
> Subject: The Brewery now at realbeer.com??
>
> Have I been in a time warp, or something? I went to
> alpha.rollanet.org, got the form with all the link buttons, but
> everytime I follow it, it tells me that page has moved to
> realbeer.com/...
>
> When did this happen? It seems that only a couple of weeks ago the
> links were there at alpa.rollanet.org. If it did change, why didn't
> they change the map too?
>
And you noticed how bad the realbeer server and connection is?  I bet at
least 3-4 times a month the thing is impossilbe to get to.  What gives?
So now we move all our resources on to one overworked inaccesible
server?  duh!

Jim


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Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 10:27:54 -0500 (CDT)
From: kfl at umr.edu
Subject: Brewery Moving

Robert Marshall wrote asking about the move of The Brewery to realbeer.com.
Well, cutting a long boring story down to the essentials, The Brewery has 
indeed been in the process of moving to the realbeer.com server over the 
past month.  The reasons are many and I won't bore you with them, other 
than to say, it was either move somewhere or shut down completely.

In regards to the complaint about not updating the map, well, how would 
folks know to update their links if the map just popped them straight to 
the page without first informing the user of the move?  We have lots and 
lots of people who don't come in the front page and the automated jumps 
are better than getting nowhere. 

Now, as to complaints about the host, I've received mail from Jim Liddil
complaining that the realbeer.com server is overloaded and overworked. 
(He also has posted a similar message to this digest).  He complains that 
he gets terrible connections to the server, which I have rarely seen 
(except for recently when they had some power problems).  Life on the 
internet is far from perfect.  We have had substantial complaints that 
access to The Brewery on RollaNet was painfully slow in some areas while 
others thought the connection was great.  It all depends on where you are.

As for their server, under the heaviest load (during backups), the load 
will be above 2.00, but the rest of the time the load is well below 
1.00.  Their system can handle the load.  I did a lot of evaluation before 
committing to the move and this was the best situation I could get for the 
users of The Brewery.

Back to beer talk please.  Complaints to /dev/null



============================================================================
Karl F. Lutzen                     | Computing and Information Services 
Scientific Programmer Analyst II   | University of Missouri - Rolla
E-Mail: kfl at umr.edu                | 114 Math-Computer Science Bldg.    
Fax:    (573) 341-4216             | 1870 Miner Circle                  
Voice:  (573) 341-4841             | Rolla, MO  65409-0360              
============================================================================

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Date-warning: Date header was inserted by mail.usask.ca
From: Mark T A Nesdoly <mtn290 at mail.usask.ca>
Subject: Shipping Beer Story (long)

Hello All,

Just a followup to Dan Morley's/Richard Stueven's comments about DHL
shipping beer to competitions.

I live in Saskatoon, SK Canada, and I've employed UPS to ship my brew to
Canadian competitions four times.  Their policy is not to ship alcohol, but
on those four occasions, the lady behind the counter let me get away with
it.  It pays to be polite & honest!

However, last Monday June 30th, I tried to ship my 2nd round entries to the
NHC in Cleveland via UPS--no go.  Like Dan stated previously, I'd rather be
honest about the contents so customs won't hold up the shipment, rather than
lie about the contents so the courier will accept it.  The same lady was
behind the counter, but because it was going to the 'states, she couldn't
accept it.  Alright.  No big deal, thinks I, I'll just go to DHL since I
just found out that day that they do ship alcohol (thanks to Dan Morley and
the HBD).

Unfortunately, the office was closing just as I got there.  Tuesday July 1st
was a holiday in Canada, so I had to come back the morning of Wednesday July
2nd.  I was beginning to have nightmares about my beer getting held up in
customs and not making it to Cleveland in time for the cutoff date of July
11th.  Oh well.

If there's one thing I've learned in my professional life, it's cover all
the bases so that there's no surprises.  With that in mind, I called the DHL
office in Calgary just to confirm that they do, in fact, ship alcohol.  The
receptionist/whatever lady that answered the phone said no.  Okay.  "Are you
sure?"  I was transferred to another lady and she said yes.  She also stated
that she gets asked that question all the time (maybe she was referring to
Mr. Morley? :-).  I asked exactly what the guidelines were, and she read
them to me out of the manual:

1.  They will ship no more than 6 (six) bottles of alcohol, worth no more
than $50 CDN.

2.  The airwaybill must be marked: "Gift - For Personal Use Only".

3.  The shipment must be to a person, not a company.  In other words, a
residential address.

If those three guidelines are met, they'll ship it.  Only one problem--point
#3 above.  I had an address in Cleveland for "NHC 97 c/o Great Lakes Brewing
Co.", but no specific individual's name.  So I called Great Lakes Brewing
Co. on Wednesday morning, and explained my predicament to the receptionist.
She was very helpful, and gave me the head brewer's name.  I would send my
entries to the head brewer, c/o Great Lakes--not quite a residential
address, but at least the package was going to be marked for an individual,
not just the company.

I then took my parcel to the DHL office here in Saskatoon on Wednesday
morning. They gladly accepted it.  Under "Full Description of Contents" I
wrote "6 (six) home-made beer;  gift - for personal use only".  I marked the
receiver as being the head brewer at Great Lakes with (NHC 97) after his
name.  Hopefully they figure it out.  And as for the declared value of the
shipment--$.60 CDN (the deposit on the bottles).  I paid the receptionist
$71.75 (!!!), and I was on my way.

At 4:30 PM I get a call at home from DHL.  The receptionist informs me that
their driver said they can't ship alcohol.  Oh?  I explain to her that the
Calgary office told me that morning that they do, and I told her the three
guidelines above.  Oh.  Well she'll check on that and get back to me.  

She calls back in fifteen minutes and explains that she just talked to the
Edmonton office, and they said that Calgary didn't quite get it right.
Didn't get what right?  She wouldn't elaborate.  She then tells me that DHL
will ship alcohol but their driver informed her that customs won't let it
into the US, and that I should be aware that it might get held up for some
kind of quarantine period.  Do you still want to try shipping it?

It was about this time that I came to the conclusion that no one at DHL's
Saskatoon office would be able to distinguish their rear end from a hole in
the ground.  I also came to the conclusion that they were trying to
discourage me from shipping my beer.

I told her to try shipping the package anyway--if it gets held up, that's
not their fault.  I was willing to take my chances.  It went out that
evening (July 2nd).

It was delivered yesterday morning (Monday July 7th).  Pretty short quarantine.

All in all, an experience I don't care to repeat.  If I ever have to ship
beer to the US again, I'm going to go in to the DHL office with my cell
phone and call DHL's Calgary office, and get them to explain to the people
here in Saskatoon exactly what are DHL's policies regarding alcohol--since
the people here obviously can't find it out themselves.

On a related note:  Does anyone know why the 500 ml PET (plastic) beer
containers aren't acceptable for the NHC?  Every one of CABA's (Canadian
Amateur Brewer's Association) competitions accepts these containers.  I
would think that they would be far easier to ship since you don't have to
pack plastic containers as carefully as glass.  With that in mind, it would
be far easier to lie to the courier companies regarding the contents of your
parcel--thus less shipping hassles.

Sorry for the long windedness, but I thought that the information above
might prove useful to someone.  

- -- Mark


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Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 10:47:09 -0500 (CDT)
From: korz at xnet.com
Subject: Alcohol bitterness/sweetness

Several days ago, I posted that alcohol added bitterness.
A couple of HBD'ers posted that alcohol (ethanol, specifically)
added sweetness, not bitterness.

I'm afraid I was simply repeating something I read in the HBD or
r.c.b (from 6 or 7 years ago, I think) without ever having doubted
it.  Last night, I did a taste test.  I took 25ml of Finlandia 80 proof
vodka and 50ml of Chicago tapwater and tasted the mixture.  This
works out to about 13.33% alcohol (I'm not sure if proof is measured by
weight or volume).

To my taste, the mixture, relative to plain water, tasted very slightly
sweet, with a hint of sharpness (bitterness?) on the back of the tongue
and the sides of the tongue, near the back.  The primary mouth sensation
was a warming mouthfeel.  Unless there was some interaction between
the ethanol and compounds in beer, I believe that both the additional
perception of sweetness and bitterness would be negligible.

I apologize for the misinformation and appreciate the polite manner
in which other members of the HBD community corrected me.  Thanks!

Al.


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Date:     Tue, 8 Jul 1997 11:02 -0600
From: M257876 at sl1001.mdc.com (BAYEROSPACE)
Subject:  it's the water

collective homebrew conscience:


jeff renner wrote (in reference to brew tour guides):

>  I think they hire people as tour
>guides who know nothing about brewing.  We know more about brewing than
>they, and when we ask questions they don't know, a number of responses are
>possible, depending on their whim or personality. 


witness this gem from a tour guide at anheuser busch in stl:

me:  "so, where do you get the brewing water?"
guide:  "...uhhh....ummm...i think we use mountain water that gets trucked in."


i knew the answer, i was just wanting to hear her tell us all that they use
river water.  i didn't press her on it.

by the way, there's nothing wrong with using river water.  st. louis has very
good water, considering its source. 

thanks to all the responses regarding how to set hop poles.  none involved
swinging a large hammer at the top of a ladder. 


brew hard,

mark bayer

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Date: Tue, 08 Jul 1997 12:34:26 -0400 (EDT)
From: eric fouch <S=fouch%G=eric%DDA=ID=STC021.efouch%Steelcase-Inc at mcimail.com>
Subject: Punkin Head Ale Closure


Date: Tuesday, 8 July 1997 12:28pm ET
To: STC012.HOMEBRE3 at STC010.SNADS
From: Eric.Fouch at STC001
Subject: Punkin Head Ale Closure
In-Reply-To: The letter of Monday, 30 June 1997 3:53pm ET
 
HBD- From one of my earlier ramblings to the HBD:
 
First, an update on the mashed-in-punkin brew.
 
Things went relatively well, actually:
 
The Recipe-
1 large (3 Gallon) Punkin
5# Pale Ale Malt
1.5#s DME
1#s Special B Malt
1#s Crystal Malt
1/4 cup Chocolate Malt
15ozs Libbys Canned Pumpkin
1oz Cascades
Hallertaur
Nutmeg, ginger, cinnamon, clove, allspice, vanilla per your favorite pie
recipe
Irish Moss
 
 
The Process-
Boiled up 3 gallons water.  Cleaned out punkin.  Poured the boiling water
into the punkin and steeped the insides for about 30 min.
 
Drained the punkin (via my aforementioned EM knockoff) and used 2 gals to
preboil the canned pumpkin.  Mashed into the crushed malts inside the punkin
at 150F.  After about 30 mins, I had to decoct back up to 150 F from 135F.
After another 30 mins, the punkin sprang a small leak in the bottom (Hello
Murphy, what took ya so long?).  I was able to collect the leakage and add to
the boil pot.  I sparged with 1.5 gallons 170F water and collected in the boil
pot.  Added 1.5#s DME and started the boil.
60 minute boil with Cascades at start, IM, spices, and Hallertaur at 15
minutes left.
 
Pitched a 1056 starter and got activity at about 6 hours.
Racked to secondary after 7 days (added two tsp. gelatin dissolved in hot
water).
 
Primed with 1/2 cup honey, bottled after 14 days total ferment time;
 
OG- 1.050
SG- 1.015 at racking
FG- 1.010 at bottling
 
Now for closure.
I entered this brew in the U.S. Open down in NC this spring.  It scored a 30
and a 33.  Positive comments were excellent appearence, nice spice flavor.
Increased maltiness and pumpkin spice were suggested opportunities for
improvement.
Next time I'll use some "Pumpkin spice, and perhaps use Wyeast 1338 instead of
good 'ole 4-to-11 yeast.
I still have four bottles left that I might enter somewhere else, or perhaps
I'll just drink 'em in a drunken stupor.  Either way, I'll let you know]]
 
Eric Fouch
efouch at steelcase.com
Bent Dick YactoBrewery
Kentwood, MI
 
Glory may be fleeting, but obscurity is forever.


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Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 09:48:10 -0700
From: "LadyGodiva" <dantre at netxxpress.net>
Subject: Forgive the 'newbie' question please...but

We all have to start somewhere.

My husband has brewed 2 batches at home, and though he is happy with the
flavor, the carbonation leaves something to be desired.

The reipies we have used call for 3/4 c. corn sugar boiled in a pint of
water then pitched into the wort.

His father recommends 1 1/2 c. boiled, then distributed evenly aboung the
bottles (I dont see a difference in method, the sugar gets there either way
right?)

Anyway, I would like input from you. Which is the preferred method? Or do
you Kraeusen? (Which I'd like to try)

Thanks for being so patient with such a newbie.
Lady G.
Yesterday is the past, tomorrow is the future.  Today is a gift, thats why
its called present.


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Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 13:01:58 -0400
From: Rory Stenerson <71762.1664 at compuserve.com>
Subject: RE: Homebrew in Pennsylvania

On Mon, 7 Jul 1997 Michael E. Sandell wrote:

"Hello All,
I am considering retirement in PA.  The AOB web pags says that it is
not legal to homebrew there, there are however homebrew supply
stores!  Does anyone have the facts on the legality of homebrewing in
PA?  Thanks for the assistance."

Greetings Michael,

It is still "unlawful" to homebrew in the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania,
just as it is still unlawful to ride a team of horses faster than a trot =
in
some of our communities <g>.  Unless you try selling your homebrew or you=

open up a cool-aid stand in front of the PA Liquor Control Board Offices
then you should not experience any problems.  PA is host to several
competitions, one just a couple of weeks ago had the fourth largest numbe=
r
of entrants in the country so far this year.

Otherwise, come on out.  You'd be welcome here in our slightly antiquated=

commonwealth...but remember I'm not a lawyer or play one on TV <g>.

Rory Stenerson,
V.P. - State College Underground Maltsters, a.k.a. S.C.U.M.
State College, PA =

71762.1664 at compuserve.com
 =


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Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 14:14:16 -0400 (EDT)
From: Paul Ward <paulw at doc.state.vt.us>
Subject: Frozen Beer

The discussion of what happens with the 'instant' ice beer is fun,
even for us physics challenged slobs (my wife would add physical
fitness challenged).

David Burley appears somewhat sceptical of some of the given reasons
for the observed phenomenom.  Me, I can't say aye or nay on anything
in this topic, but there is one part of the phenomenom that nobody's
mentioned (at least I didn't see it).  The reason for the beer
gushing out of the bottle may have something to do with the rapid
nucleation of CO2 in a diminished quantity of fluid, but I thin, this
may be aided by the expansion of water freezing into ice.  Not just
the fact that the water freezes leaving only the original volume minus water
content to contain the CO2, but the ice expansion would increase the
pressure inside the bottle.  That the 'lighter'components (alcohols,
aromatics, etc.) would rush toward the opening in the bottle first
(rapid CO2 scrubbing) isn't too much of a stretch for my non-techno
imagination.

Of course, I don't have the faintest idea what I'm talking about.

				Paul
- -- 
I serve the State for a living,
I do NOT live to serve the State!

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Date: Tue, 08 Jul 1997 14:48:25 -0400 (EDT)
From: eric fouch <S=fouch%G=eric%DDA=ID=STC021.efouch%Steelcase-Inc at mcimail.com>
Subject: Brewing Lemonade/Bottle Kraeusen


Date: Tuesday, 8 July 1997 2:41pm ET
To: STC012.HOMEBRE3 at STC010.SNADS
From: Eric.Fouch at STC001
Subject: Brewing Lemonade/Bottle Kraeusen
In-Reply-To: HBD 2457
 
HBD-
I whipped up a batch of One-Eyed Dog Jack (TM) last nite per:
2# wheat malt
1# corn sugar
2# honey
6 cans pink lemonade concentrate.
Boiled water, added WME, corn sugar, boiled 15 minutes, added honey, chilled.
Added one can of PLC (why not?).  Diluted to 5 gallons, added 1 packet Coopers
yeast (rehydrated).  Perhaps this is the yeast Two Dogs Lemonade uses?
OG 1.054  This weekend I'll add the other 5 cans of PLC.
 
Last Saturday I bottled up 6 gallons of barleywine, and 5 gallons of Amber
Ale.  A few hours later, I noticed three of the bottles (of Amber Ale) had a
little head of foam.  Never happened before.  After a few days noticed those
bottles had more sediment than the non-kraeusen forming bottles.  Perhaps I
sucked up more yeast sediment into these bottles?  Can't 'member if they were
the first bottles bottled or not.  IMBR?  Did I FTIM?  Am I SOL?  Does this
ever happen at Kalamazoo Brewing Company (DTEHAKBC)?  Would they tell me if it
did?  Has this happened to anyone else?
Private e-mail OK
I'll summarize and post responses
 
Eric Fouch
efouch at steelcase.com
One-Eyed Dog Jack Farm, Animal Husbandry Department,
Kentwood MI


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Date: Tue, 08 Jul 1997 14:44:23 -0500
From: Rob Kienle <rkienle at interaccess.com>
Subject: Sanitation Simplicity Pt 1: Kegs and Carboys

A recent experience in my racking procedures has led me to rethink my
sanitation practices. After kegging a batch about a week ago, I rinsed
and filled the carboy that I had used for the secondary with my standard
solution of chlorine and water. Things got busy around the house and I
didn't get around to emptying the solution from the carboy so it sat
there filled for the entire time. The other day, I was ready to rack
another batch from primary to secondary and decided to simply rinse
(*very* hot water, per usual) the standing chlorine/water solution from
the previous carboy and rack the new beer into it without "resanitizing"
it. My rationale was that it had already been well sanitized after
sitting there for a week (albeit uncovered) without being disturbed.

About a day later, however, I noticed a pretty decent amount of bubbles
rising to the top of the secondary and this activity has continued for
the last three days. Since the beer had already reached 1.010 by the
time I racked it, I became surprised that it would seem to display so
much life and am now somewhat worried that the activity reflects a wild
yeast infection. It doesn't stink or taste bad yet but I'm considering
slamming the whole thing into my kegging fridge to chill it down and
hopefully shock any wild yeasties into submission (which if it's the
normal fermentation I'm observing is still okay since I'm pretty much as
low as I need to be in terms of FG for this batch).

So here are three questions (at last!) this brings up to me relating to
making sanitation procedures more simple:

1.) Is it acceptable to leave a fermenter sitting full of sanitizer
between brewing/racking sessions, and thus simplify the brewing/racking
by avoiding the need for a repeat sanitation procedure? Or do any of the
chemicals responsible for sanitizing the environment become oxidized or
otherwise "burned out" over time and thus allow contamination within the
vessel to occur?

I have followed a similar procedure in my kegging practices by cleaning
the kegs, then filling them with a weak iodophor solution and sealing
them shut, and full of sanitizer, until needed. Since I have experienced
no ill effects from this procedure with iodophor and kegs, it would seem
that it works and "ain't broken." But can the same be said of chlorine
and carboys? Had I sealed the carboy while full of the chlorine, would
things have been different? Or is the beer actually just going through
normal secondary fermentation (no wild yeast) and I'm just being
paranoid (a not uncommon phenomenon).

- --
Cheers4beers,
Rob Kienle
Chicago, IL
rkienle at interaccess.com





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Date: Tue, 08 Jul 1997 14:52:43 -0500
From: Rob Kienle <rkienle at interaccess.com>
Subject: Sanitation Simplicity Pt 2: Bottles

To keep a post on simplicity as simple as possible, I've separated it
into two. My conundrums with kegs and carboys is also reflected with a
concern or two about bottles.

I've recently ordered a counterpressure bottle filler and, in talking to
the supplier about its use, was urged to allow my bottles to air dry
after sanitizing. Like my kegs, I use iodophor to sanitize my bottles
but have never bothered to let them sit around drying (and risking
contamination) before or during a bottling session. My supplier,
however, maintained that I could store the sanitized bottles upside down
in my bottle tree overnight or more without having any problems with
infection or wild yeast. This surprised me and I'm not sure I believe
it; to say the bottles would be safe from contamination just because the
bugs float downward seems way too simple to me. I originally asked the
question of my supplier because I have frequently heard it recommended
to chill the bottles before filling them via a CF filler, but that
didn't make a lot of sense to me either since putting newly sanitized
bottles in a refrigerator (filth heaven) really seems to beg for
trouble.

Hence, what is is the simplest way to handle bottle sanitation when
using a CF filler? Do they need to be chilled? Or can I just do it the
way I always have (when I used to prime instead of force-carbonate) and
fill 'em even with a few drops of very dilute iodophor still present?

- --
Cheers4beers,
Rob Kienle
Chicago, IL
rkienle at interaccess.com




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Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 16:21:30 -0400
From: "Houseman, David L" <David.Houseman at unisys.com>
Subject: SS Perf Plate Hole Size?

I'm either purchasing some stainless steel perforated plate or wire
cloth for a new false bottom or simply purchasing one already made for
that purpose for my 1/2bbl boiler.  My question is what is the optimum
hole size when the vast majority of my hopping is done with pellets in
order to keep hops, irish moss and hot break out of my counter flow
chiller yet still give good thermal transfer and not cause excess
scorching on the boiler bottom?  I seem to recall that most of the
commercial false bottoms are 3/32" holes on 5/32" centers; I would
expect that to be fine for whole hops but what about the use of hop
pellets?  I may also upgrade my 10gal Gott mash/lauter tun from a Phils
Phalse bottom with a ss perf plate/wire cloth to give a greater open
area.  Is the plate with 3/32" hole on 5/32" centers the optimum for
this purpose?

TIA,  

Dave Houseman  

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Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 15:35:03 -0700
From: "Michael J. Westcott" <mikew at sedona.net>
Subject: Re: Bottle of ice questions

The main factor responsible for maintaining the
beer in an unfrozen state when the temperature of 
the ambient surroundings is below the freezing point
of water is the freezing point depression which occurs
when a substance(in this case CO2) is dissolved in a solvent.
The effect is enhanced due to the high bottling pressure which
ensures a large quantity of dissolved CO2(Henry's law).
As the bottle is opened, rapidly decreased pressure
allows the CO2 to come out of solution, thus
the effect on freezing point(depression) is reduced and you have
a solution now at its freezing point, so it freezes!

Michael J. Westcott
Physical sciences/chemistry
Mingus Union High School
Cottonwood, AZ
mikew at sedona.net

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Date: Tue, 08 Jul 1997 21:58:45 -0700
From: mirsjer at charlie.cns.iit.edu
Subject: phenolic vs. infection?

Hi-

last brew session was a major disappointment for me... I was shooting
for an all-grain American pale of about 1.050... got 1.036, I believe
due to oversparging (I never seem to get a 5 gallon yield! - any
suggestions?) My mash temp was not too low.
Anyhow, I fermented with Wyeast 1056-American and had a quick start...
since it's warm here in Chicago, I used the old carboy-in-a-cool water
bath-with a towel trick.
Fermented down to 1.010... kegged... this stuff smells a little funky..
and tastes not-too-great.

How do you determine whether a beer is phenolic or infected?

BTW, this was the 1st time that I boiled ALL of my brew water -in an
attempt to AVOID phenols (ironic, eh?).  
Do other Chicago HBDers boil their water?
Also, I notice some (not too much) small grain particles suspended in a
glass of brew drawn from the keg.  OK, I guess a bit of grain slipped
through, but why is it suspended in the beer?

Thanks!

Jeremy

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Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 23:32:40 -0400 (EDT)
From: DGofus at aol.com
Subject: Re: Zima and other recipes

Help!!!!!! My wife does not enjoy homebrewed beer nearly as much as I. She
does enjoy Zima ( I do too ). Since this drink is touted as a "all malt
beverage", is it possilble to duplicate that on a extract homebrew level?
 Also, I want to brew two beers. 1) A Pete's Wicked Ale 2) A chocolate mint
stout. Any help, guidance, or recipe info would be appreciated. I was told
that the hop flavor and aroma for the Pete's is brewers gold? Many recipes
that I have checked out have various different hops. Thanks in advance, I am
preparing my wish list of brews for when the temps drop to get back to
brewing. Private e-mail okay.

Bob Fesmire
Madman Brewery
Pottstown, PA
Dgofus at aol.com

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Date: Tue, 08 Jul 1997 23:31:40 -0400
From: Randy Ricchi <rricchi at ccisd.k12.mi.us>
Subject: Corona bottles

Larry is looking for a way to get the painted labels off of his Corona
bottles, which he is going to use to bottle his barley wine.  I offer a low
effort solution: why not name your barley wine "Corona Barley Wine"?
Problem solved.

"Should anyone thirst, let them come unto me and drink"

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---