---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com


Contents:
  Re: Problems with home grown hops (Mark Witherspoon)
  yeast with brains (Dave Whitman)
  RE: Yeast with Brains ("Mark Nelson")
  Malta and Botulism ("Mark Nelson")
  Breakfast of Champions ("Bridges, Scott")
  Red Beer, Allred ("David R. Burley")
  Hangover Cure??/ Films on beer surface (Joe Rolfe)
  Minneapolis/St. Paul (Wes Clement)
  Seattle Beer (Mark Rancourt)
  Life of a Rubber Gasket? (Gordon & Cindy Camp)
  Re: active fementation in secondary / dry hopping (Sean Mick)
  State of Delaware Enforces Little Known Homebrew Ban! (Mark Warrington)
  Kegging ("Stephen Jordan")
  Don't use your homegrown hops for brewing ("Don Van Valkenburg")
  re: RIMS false bottom design ("C.D. Pritchard")
  I'm going to build a Brewery (bers)
  RE: Don't use your homegrown hops for brewing (Some Guy)
  Re:  Madison, WI brewpub (pdiltz)
  wine making (jdickins)
  ale yeast vs. lager yeast (Brian Amick)
  RE: More on Malta and a wheat beer question (Volker R. Quante)
  Malta -  Final Notes ("Lorena Barquin Sanchez")
  Dallas/chlorine over time/beetles (Samuel Mize)
  Dallas - more data (Samuel Mize)


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Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 07:35:13 -0400
From: bveq97 at nestle.he.boeing.com (Mark Witherspoon)
Subject: Re: Problems with home grown hops

What I tried the first year that I had hops growing was several 
experiments:
	1. Just freeze after picking
	2. Dry for about 2 hrs in a paper bag in my attic
	3. dry on a screen for 2 hrs in my attic
	4. Dry on a clean cookie sheet in the oven
Results:
	1. Mush.. Just mush.  The moisture in the hops expanded in
	the freeze and the hops turned to mush when boiled (also the
	flavor was quite off).
	2. !!!  The best for me.  This protects the hops from attic
	creatures,lets the excessive moisture out and protects from light.
	2 hrs is the best for me.
	3. Good but the smell was more like damp hay when they were done.
	4.  at (&*%$(%  was the response from my wife.  The smell was of 
	small pasture fire..
	
Added the Hop Info site on the web (can't remember where) stated the
best was #2!

Mark Witherspoon

     By US Code Title 47,Sec.227(a)(2)(B), a computer/modem/printer 
     meets the definition of a fax machine.By Sec.227(b)(1)(C), it is
     unlawful to send any unsolicited advertisement to such equipment,
     punishable by action to recover actual monetary loss, or $500,
     whichever is greater, for each violation.
  


Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 08:27:15
From: Dave Whitman <dwhitman at rohmhaas.com>
Subject: yeast with brains

In HBD2465, Greg Moore asks:

>This was also the first time I used irish moss in my boil (15 minutes).
>
>Now the primary has a substance floating on top that can be best
>described as looking like brain matter.
>
>In preperation for racking, I agitated the carboy to try to get the
>brain to sink.  Pieces of it did, but most stayed right on top.
>15 hours after agitation, I can see some pieces of "brain" floating
>in the middle of the beer also.
>
>Is this normal?  Is this something the irish moss helped make

As you suspect, the "brain" is caused by the irish moss.  It's perfectly
normal, and you should be able to leave most of it behind when you rack.
Don't try to filter it, though.  It's soft and slimy and tends to either
plug filters, or slide through screens.
- ---
Dave Whitman          "The opinions expressed are those of the author, and not
dwhitman at rohmhaas.com  Rohm and Haas Co."


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Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 08:39:12 -0400
From: "Mark Nelson" <menelson at mindspring.com>
Subject: RE: Yeast with Brains

>Greg Moore wrote:
>
>Now the primary has a substance floating on top that can be best
>described as looking like brain matter.  

Someone else may know the mechanics of brain formation in your beer, but I
can say that this happened to me once (before I started lurking here), and
it was no problem.  I racked carefully, so that the grey matter didn't end
up in my bottling bucket, but otherwise treated it like a 'normal' batch. 
BTW, there was no off smell, other off colors, etc. in my batch.


Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 08:47:09 -0400
From: "Mark Nelson" <menelson at mindspring.com>
Subject: Malta and Botulism

This may be a dumb question but here goes anyway.

Are there brands of malta without additives such as caramel coloring, etc.,
and perhaps still instead of carbonated?  If so, could these act as
long-term, botulism-free, storable wort for starters?  The cost might be an
issue, compared with making your own starter wort, but thought I'd ask.


Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 18 Jul 97 08:58:00 EDT
From: "Bridges, Scott" <bridgess at mmsmtp.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM>
Subject: Breakfast of Champions



Alan writes:

>If I'm in for a night of above-average drinking, later on in
>the evening I replace every 3rd or 4th beer with a big glass
>of V8, in order to replenish vitamins.
>[snip]
>
>It's not too often that I drink so much that I have to resort
>to beer the next day, but I must say that I'm really glad to
>have found this cure.  I'm almost ashamed to admit that I got
>it from a really bad alcoholic that I knew in high school
>whose "breakfast of champions" was beer **mixed** with tomato
>juice.  (No, I don't mix the two)

Hey Alan,

I follow a similar method, but use water.  Staying hydrated seems to help. 
 I try to keep a glass of water in front of me and alternate sips.

My S2BX liked to drink beer and tomato juice drink mixed when I first met 
her, years ago (not for breakfast, though).  I've not run across anyone else 
who does that.  I could never get accustomed to it.  It just seemed like a 
waste of 2 perfectly good beverages to me.  She grew up in Ontario, maybe 
it's a Canadian thing???

Scott


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Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 08:59:32 -0400
From: "David R. Burley" <Dave_Burley at compuserve.com>
Subject: Red Beer, Allred

Brewsters:

Alan McKay suggests that drinking a glass of V-8 juice
between every three beers will reduce or prevent a
hangover.  Why not drink a "red Beer" as the
Mid-westerners do?  They mix tomato juice and =

Bud to produce a pretty tasty treat as long as the
tomato juice level is high enough. =

Same principle should apply to V-8.
- ---------------------------------------
Mike Allred ( do you detect a theme here?) has a
segmented fermentation He is using yeast slants
and a large starter, yet the fermentation seems to
start and stop.

I have sometimes experienced an apparent stop in
the fermentation on racking because the racking step
decarbonates the brew somewhat, but it will return to
showing *visible* signs of fermenting eventually
( even though it never stopped).  Waiting ten days to
 rack to the secondary may be your problem, particularly
if your yeast have started to floc prematurely.  You may be
removing the majority of your yeast as you rack to the
secondary.  Either you have a second strain yeast
(perhaps a powdery strain) which re-starts
( and takes 5 days to do so) or your original ( highly flocculant)
culture recovers somewhat from the agitation during
the drop to the secondary and finishes out the fermentation.
Stir the fermenter after the main ferment has died down
and rack to the secondary in about 5 days.  Wait a few
(like one or two, normally) hours after stirring to allow the
trub to settle, but so that the yeast stay stirred in before you
rack to the secondary.  This will maximize the yeast you
carry over to the secondary.  Also check your temperature
of fermentation, it may be too low or the calcium content of
your wort may be too high, causing premature flocculation.
- --------------------------------------
Keep on brewin'


Dave Burley
Kinnelon, NJ 07405
103164.3202 at compuserve.com
Dave_Burley at compuserve.com  =

Voice e-mail OK =


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Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 09:25:45 -0400 (EDT)
From: Joe Rolfe <onbc at shore.net>
Subject: Hangover Cure??/ Films on beer surface

for hangovers cure: 
	1) drink local beer
	2) drink beer on yeast



Barry mentioned:
> 
> I found about 10 bottles of a red ale that I made quite some time ago and
> I noticed that there was a white substance floating on top of the ale,
> but not growing on the neck of the bottle. There were no signs of

occasionally - depending on the strain of yeast used (in primary or bottle
conditioning) a yeast will throw a slite film, some texts call this a pelicle
(spelling may be off).  it could be that the yeast was not pure, stable or wild.
if the beer tastes decent after a long period of time it probably is not wild.
some wild ones i have seen produce a ring of blotches around the neck at the 
surface, over atttenuate, and cause phenolics.

i fought with this problem for about a year, before i paid large amounts of
dollars for a pure strain of the yeast i used. the strain i was using was from
a large yeast house here in the states.  in our case it did not have negative
impact on flavor.  in other cases i have heard/read about this was the result 
of a wild yeast invasion, and ruined many batches and nearly caused the brewery
to go out of business. they have since recovered and are making very nice beer
now. 

if you have a scope it is easy to take a quick look and determine (roughly)
what you have. you'll probably want to look at some of the yeast on the bottom
of the bottle - to get a rough idea at what the strain looks like in 
somewhat bad shape (starved/autolyzed).  then take a look at the top film.

if you do not - maybe start preparing plates, and isolate colonies. this might
prevent the potential multistrain issue.  if this does not remove the film
try another strain.  i would doubt that you want to put up the ~$200 - $400
for a tube of pure yeast.

good luck 
joe


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Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 08:23:38 -0600
From: wesc at mails.imed.com (Wes Clement)
Subject: Minneapolis/St. Paul

     I will be in Minneapolis/St. Paul on 7/26 through 7/30. I would like 
     suggestions for Brewpubs, Microbrew, Brew Club events, ect.
     

Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 06:49:21 -0700
From: Mark Rancourt <rancourt at nelson.ca.boeing.com>
Subject: Seattle Beer

George,

This is not to slam Redhook but,
there are far better brews to be had at ELYSIAN BREWERY located at
13th and Pike St. in downtown Seattle.

As long as you are in the neighborhood might just as well hit Pike
Brewery.
Although not one of their's a guest brew is Lindemans Cuve'e Rene'.
A Belgian Lambic Gueuze worthy of dying for.

Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 10:44:19 CDT
From: U18183 at UICVM.UIC.EDU

Subject:     Re: Malta

  There was a thread a long long time ago about using Malta
(specifically Malta Goya) as a pre-packaged starter medium. I did this
once with minimal success, but I have a feeling that my technique may
have left something to be desired ( I think I pitched cold liquid yeast
into room temp Malta and didnt practice strict sanitation).

   Has anyone used Malta for a starter and had success?

 -Paul
Paul Sovcik
Western Springs, IL                PJS at uic.edu


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Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 15:38:08 -0400
From: Gordon & Cindy Camp <revcamp at epix.net>
Subject: Life of a Rubber Gasket?

After the recent birth of my first child (A BOY!) I decided to brew a 
batch of Mead to lay down for his 21st birthday. A tradition similar to 
the English idea of buying a vintage case of Port to lay down. No 
problem, right, wrong? I got fancy and bottled it in 22oz ceramic swing 
tops. Then I realize that the rubber gaskets over time and eposure to 
air will dry out and wither. Is there any help? I figure that layed on 
there sides the inner portions will stay moist, but still I risk losing 
the seal. I have heared of a food grade lubricant for gaskets, would 
that work? Would I need to reapply? How often?  Also, I thought that I 
could seal the outside of the gasket with wax.  Any ideas for a proud 
Papa?

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Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 13:09:50 -0700 (PDT)
From: homebrew at dcn.davis.ca.us (Sean Mick)
Subject: Re: active fementation in secondary / dry hopping

>Just recently I have developed a problem in my process.  My last 3 brews
>have had the same problem. [snip]...The primary goes for about 10 days and I
>rack to my secondary, at this time I'm still (even with the primary rocking
>and rolling) getting gravities to my seconday of about 1.035.  When I rack
>to the seconday time it stops foaming almost completely.  Then after about 5
>days I think that its just fermenting very slowly (very little movement in
>the airlock), so I add about 2 oz of hop pellets.  Then damn, its off again
>so fast that I have to put the blow off tube back on.  The finished beer
>tastes great (I do know what a wild yeast ferment tastes like and this
>doesn't seem to be one) with FG of about 1.008.  I ferment in a fridge at 64
>deg f.  The whole process is taking me about 5 weeks before I can bottle.
>What is going on?

Sound like the cold temp you are fermenting at is keeping a greater amount
of co2 in solution than you are accustomed to, and then when you add hops
to the batch, you create nucleation points and liberate that CO2. Also, I
would wager that when you rack the beer there is some introduction of
oxygen that sends the yeast back into respiration mode. 64F may also be on
the low end for 1028, I dunno. I know that 1056 can ferment down to 50
before it cuts out; I made a psuedo-maibock one time this way, and
surprisingly I had to let the beer mature, "lager," just like the real
thing because of an excess amount of sulphur!

Anyway, sound like you are doing just fine, may want to wait a little
longer before transfer or perform your primary at a slightly higher temp.
to bring your gravity lower before transfer. I'm sure there are those who
would argue this point, though. I've even heard of award winning brewers
who rack off the trub within a few hours of pitching. But unless you are
very sanitary in your brewhouse, this can lead to infection. Just my two
cents.

And, oh yeah, for Greg Moore, the guy who was wondering what that "grey
matter" in his beer was: it's probably swelled Irish Moss. Don't worry,
unless it grows hairs or smells/tastes sour, just rack it off. See ya,


Sean Mick
Mick's Homebrew Supplies
http://www.dcn.davis.ca.us/~homebrew



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Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 16:34:42 -0400
From: Mark Warrington <warringt at a1.esvax.umc.dupont.com>
Subject: State of Delaware Enforces Little Known Homebrew Ban!

Greetings from the People's Republic of Delaware!!!

As has been reported on usenet earlier this week, The First State
Brewers
(http://triton.cms.udel.edu/%7Eoliver/firststate/firststate.html) had
planned to have a "Best of Delaware" homebrew competition sponsored by
and hosted at The Rockford Brewing Company (microbrewery) in Wilmington,
DE this month
(http://triton.cms.udel.edu/%7Eoliver/firststate/DBA/index.html). The
State of Delaware had other plans!
	Exercising a little known anomaly of the Delaware Code (based on 1935
language), wherein "Alcoholic Liquors" are defined as including
distilled spirits, wine and beer, homebrewed beer falls under this
catch-all term! 
	Only wine made for personal consumption is exempted (added 1956).
Therefore, when Title 4, Alcoholic Beverages, talks about unlicensed
manufacture of "alcoholic liquors" it includes by default homebrew! 
	When President Carter signed the law in 1978 making it legal to make
beer and wine for personal consumption the wine hobby people assumed
that beermaking was now legal in Delaware as well as winemaking. ABC
never enforced the ban against beermaking until now. 
	Hopefully this quirk in the code can be addressed as soon as possible
by the legislature and the Attorney General's office and we can get back
to our "hobby!"

Mark Warrington
Tri-State Brewers
tristateb at aol.com

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Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 18:38:17 -0400
From: "Stephen Jordan" <komusubi at together.net>
Subject: Kegging

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

- ------=_NextPart_000_0000_01BC93A9.C26CD640
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

 Hi All,

First I want to say thank-you to everyone that responded to my questions =
about kegging (sorry it has taken so long to thank you all). Now last =
week I kegged for the first time and it was so easy I dont know why I =
waited so long to start.

Which leads me to another question. I have two other batches brewing and =
this weekend will start another. My question is, how many kegs does one =
normally have ? And the other question is , my local homebrew shop wants =
$40 for a used reconditioned keg. is this a good price?

Thanks in advance once again.

Private E-mail to brewthat at hotmail.com or komusubi at together.net

SRJ




- ------=_NextPart_000_0000_01BC93A9.C26CD640
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>

<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.71.1008.3"' name=3DGENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<P><FONT color=3D#000000 face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;Hi All,</FONT></P>
<P><FONT color=3D#000000 face=3DArial size=3D2><FONT>First I want to say =
thank-you to=20
everyone that responded to my questions about kegging (sorry it has =
taken so=20
long to thank you all). Now last week I kegged for the first time and it =
was so=20
easy I dont know why I waited so long to start.</FONT></FONT>
<P><FONT color=3D#000000 face=3DArial size=3D2>Which leads me to another =
question. I=20
have two other batches brewing and this weekend will start another. My =
question=20
is, how many kegs does one normally have ? And the other question is , =
my local=20
homebrew shop wants $40 for a used reconditioned keg. is this a good=20
price?</FONT>
<P><FONT color=3D#000000 face=3DArial size=3D2>Thanks in advance once =
again.</FONT>
<P><FONT size=3D2>Private E-mail to <A=20
href=3D"mailto:brewthat at hotmail.com">brewthat at hotmail.com</A> or <A=20
href=3D"mailto:komusubi at together.net">komusubi at together.net</A></FONT>
<P><FONT face=3D"" size=3D2><FONT color=3D#008080>SRJ</FONT></FONT>
<P><FONT face=3D"" size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</BODY></HTML>

- ------=_NextPart_000_0000_01BC93A9.C26CD640--


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Date: Fri, 18 Jul 97 22:48:09 UT
From: "Don Van Valkenburg" <DONVANV at msn.com>
Subject: Don't use your homegrown hops for brewing

In response to the subject of using homegrown hops in your brewing--Don't.
First of all, if you don't live between 30 and 50 degrees latitude your hop 
plants will probably not grow very well, or if they do will not produce 
sufficient resin (where the essential oils come from) to have any flavor.  
Second, if you are in a good region of the country to grow hops, how do you 
know what the resulting alpha/beta acids are?   We as brewers know that alpha 
can vary considerably in the most favorable region of the country.   For 
example; cascade this year from the Pacific Northwest was as high as 10% from 
some farms.  These typically are blended hops from other yards so the brewer 
would get pellets somewhere around 7%  for the 1996 crop.  This is for a 
variety that usually averages 4.5 to 5%.   

Another consideration of homegrown hops is proper aging.  Although this thread 
has been around before, here is a recap:  Hops should go through a certain 
period of controlled oxidation.  To quote Ralph Olson in a recent HOPUNION 
newsletter;  "While most people come to expect only the newest and freshest 
hops they can obtain, many major breweries will often let their hops age 
before brewing.  Keep in mind that this is controlled aging.  This will tend 
to mellow out the oil profile and this will make for a more mellower,  not 
distinct hop that will be blended with other aged hops.  They will blend 2-3 
years of different hops together. "   This is not only the case for big 
American brewers, but German brewers.  I heard that European hop storage is 
not even refrigerated like American hop dealers!  

Bottom line is enjoy growing your homegrown hop plants like you would any 
other ornamental yard plant, but don't use them for brewing.  And, if you must 
use them, age them well or they will be harsh.  

Don Van Valkenburg
donvanv at msn.com
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Stein_Fillers


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Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 18:49:21 +0700
From: "C.D. Pritchard" <cdp at mail.chattanooga.net>
Subject: re: RIMS false bottom design

"August R Buerkle" <buerkle at seas.upenn.edu> wanted info on the design of
RIMS false bottoms.  

I've used 3 so far:  1) a phil's phloating phalse bottom,  2) a false bottom
using screening removed from a kitchen strainer and  3) a manifold made from
~10' of the outer SS sheathing removed from some plumbing tubing.

By far, #3 has been the best, even with my puny (but cheap) pump.  #3 allows
the highest flow, has very small openings, and it's easy and cheap.  Details
available via the URL below.

c.d. pritchard   cdp at mail.chattanooga.net 
http://caladan.chattanooga.net/~cdp/index.html


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Date: Fri, 18 Jul 97 19:57:58 PDT
From: bers at epix.net
Subject: I'm going to build a Brewery 

Greetings Brewers
	I'm going to build a brewery. I've got a 12'9"x10'9" spring house, 
all the beer gear in one spot. The spring house water temp is 45-50 winter 
and 60-65 summer. There will be a 60 amp service and running water in the 
brewery. The brew system will be a two tier RIMS 10 to 20 gallon. I'm still 
looking for two SS drums in this size. The mash system similar Keith Royster 

http://www.ays.net/RIMS/ (6000 W water wizard element, a Little Giant pump 
3-md-mt-hc and a PID controller)
	Since this will be a fixed system in the spring house, my biggest 
concern at this time is the heat source for the sprage water and boiling 
kettle. I can install a 6" flue and enclose the boiling kettle burner frame 
with 1/8" plate steel with a vent to the flue. Will this provide safe 
ventilation? The tank of LP will be placed outside and piped to the burner.
	I really don't want to if I have to heat the sparge water with a 
electric water heater element I would. Any idea of wattage requierement to 
heat 15 gallons in 30 minutes? 
 	Can I run my sparge water at a rate of 1 gallon in 5 or 6 minutes 
thourgh the RIMS element and get the needed temp. rise (70 to 170 
degrees) 
from this element with the PID controlling the heater? Maybe changing the 

element during sparge from 120 volt to 240 volt would work. If I change 
the 
woltage for sparging will the PID respond corrrect?
	I'm an industrial electrician skilled in control wiring and relay 

work. I can wire this system if the PID and element can handle the load.
	The heater element is a 1"NPSM screw plug and all the copper tee 
I've found are 1" NPT. How do I get the two to thread together.
	Thanks for your time ny other ideas are welcome and E-mail will 
be 
fine.
			Tony	
- -------------------------------------
Name: Tony Maurer
E-mail: bers at epix.net
Date: 7/18/97
Time: 6:20:17 PM
Beer is good! 

- -------------------------------------
Name: Tony Maurer
E-mail: bers at epix.net
Date: 7/18/97
Time: 7:55:35 PM

This message was sent by Chameleon 
- -------------------------------------


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Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 08:05:11 -0400 (EDT)
From: Some Guy <pbabcock at oeonline.com>
Subject: RE: Don't use your homegrown hops for brewing

Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your lager...

Don says not to use your homegrown hops for brewing. I say phoooooooey!

I get a bumper crop of Cascades every year, and I brew mighty fine APA's 
with them to boot. 

Keep in mind that the ability to empirically determine the bittering
potential of a hop is a recent development - far more recent than the
hop's use in beer. Understanding of growing regions has been around a bit
longer, but there are no unimpeachable rules to say what characterisicts a
hop from a given region will have, whether that region is considered
"good" or not! 

You can determine quite a bit about your hops by smelling and tasting them
 - noone I know ever died from chewing a hop cone. Use your senses to
determine the applicability of a hop to your brew - just as our
forefathers did. You'll be a better brewer for it! And, if this really
worries you, simply grow aroma varieties, and only use them at knock out. 

As for aging, most of us just dry them, true; but I've never detected any
harshness. Spread your hops in a layer on a window screen suspended
between two chairs for a couple of weeks (air conditioned basement) or a
couple of days (attic), and you'll do fine. The strobiles ("hop leaves" to
many) tend to open away from the stem a bit and appear less vividly green
on a well-dried hop. There is a percentage water you want to lose (that I
cannot recall at the moment). Since the weight of a hop cone is
predominantly water, you can make a decent determination with a kitchen
scale: Weigh your hops before you dry them, then weigh them when you think
they're done. I doubt any of us really get to use our hops immediately 
upon determining that they are dry, anyway. Maybe this constitute the 
aging Don speaks of and is why I detect no harshness. 

I am (very slowly) working on a home hops growers' page. I have taken 
pictures of hops at the various stages of drying, and will get them up 
there ASAP for reference for the curious. The URL is/will 
http://oeonline.com/~pbabcock/hops


See ya!

Pat Babcock in SE Michigan                pbabcock at oeonline.com
Home Brew Digest Janitor                  janitor@hbd.org
AOL Home Brewing "Maven"                  brewbeerd at aol.com
Ford Manufacturing Engineer               pbabcock.ford at e-mail.com 


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Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 16:59:49 -0500
From: pdiltz at juno.com
Subject: Re:  Madison, WI brewpub

>From: Brian Amick <baamick at seidata.com>
>I'll be in Madison, Wi, next week.  Does anyone know of any
brewpubs(snip) 


Brian, try The Great Dane Pub & Brewing Co.  123 East Doty Street 
608-284-0000.
It's downtown, to the East of the State Capital Bldg. (I won't even try
to direct you, stop somewhere & ask..downtown Mad City is a little
confusing)

Very nice atmosphere, a couple of the selections are hand-pulled,  be
sure to try (if it's still available) "Old Scratch's Wicked Stepmother"
barleywine..


Pete Diltz
 -Trial and Error Brewery-

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Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 22:33:37 GMT
From: jdickins at baste.magibox.net
Subject: wine making

hey all,

I know this has nothing to do with beer, but I have been thinking about
making a red wine recently and I'm wondering about several things:
=46ermenting in a carboy, do the grapes go in and out thru the neck
easily?
What yeast to use to make a cabernet sauvignon?
Will a yeast starter be necessary and if so, what do I use for starter
must?

Better yet, does anyone know of a good web page that describes all this
in gory detail?? I've taken abount an hour and looked but have not found
a good site.

thanks for the help and it might be best to e-mail all replys,
jim

memphis, tn

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Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 22:56:51 -0700
From: Brian Amick <baamick at seidata.com>
Subject: ale yeast vs. lager yeast

I'm wanting to try some recipes for something other than an ale.  
However, I don't have a spare fridge to lager in.  In CP's book he says 
don't worry (of course) about substituting ale yeast for lager yeast or 
vice versa.  If I was to try something like a porter or a bock, would I 
be better off going ahead with a lager yeast at room temp. or using an 
ale yeast in it's place?  How would either of these affect the finished 
product?  Also, I'm thinking about buying an old fridge to put in the 
garage.  How constant would temp. control need to be for lagering?  Would 
a temp. range of 10 degrees (40-50 or 45-55) be too much?  Thanks for any 
help.
Brian Amick 								
		"I like beer.  It makes me a jolly good fellow."	
						Tom T. Hall

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Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 12:20:42 +0200
From: V.R.Quante at t-online.de (Volker R. Quante)
Subject: RE: More on Malta and a wheat beer question

David W. Boyd wrote in #2465:

- --- snip ---

        One question I have is when they served the wheat in addition to
the
normal lemon slice they put some dry rice in the glass.  I had never
seen this
before, is anyone else familiar with the practice and it's purpose?

- --- snip ---

Hi, David,

I lived in Bavaria and other parts of Southern Germany for some years.
There the Wheat - or Hefe-Weissbier, as it is called here in Germany -
is kind of a national symbol and should not be worsened with any
ingredients.

Only in the worse brew pubs - rarely in Bavaria, but especially in
Northern Germany, where they do not know the right customs - they put
rice in the wheat. I guess, they try to force the carbondioxide out of
the beer, resulting in more and longer sustaining foam.

The lemon slice is okay, even in Bavaria they use it for a fresh, fruity
taste in the Wheat, especially in hot summer time.

Volker

- -- 



- -----------------------------------------------------------------------

Volker R. Quante
Major i.G.   -   Dipl. Inform.

- -----------------------------------------------------------------------

privat / private contact:

Brunnenweg 4
D - 53 809 Ruppichteroth Schoenenberg

phone  		+49 - 22 95 - 24 75
fax    		+49 - 25 61 - 91 31 61 06 06
voicemail	+49 - 25 61 - 91 31 68 08 85
e-mail 		v.r.quante at t-online.de

- -----------------------------------------------------------------------

dienstlich / official contact only:

Amt fuer Studien und Uebungen der Bundeswehr (AStudUebBw)
Bereich Sicherheitspolitik und Militaerstrategie

Federal Armed Forces Office for Studies and Exercises (FAFORSE)
Security Policy and Military Strategy Division

Schaumburgweg 3
D 51 545 Waldbroel
phone  +49 - 22 92 - 20 22 - 358
fax    +49 - 22 91 - 20 26
e-mail astuduebbw at t-online.de


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Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 10:24:43 -0400
From: "Lorena Barquin Sanchez" <mbarquin at telcel.net.ve>
Subject: Malta -  Final Notes

Gentlemen:

Final comments on Malta. First, because there is no fermentation, there is
no natural carbonation.  Malta has to be forced carbonated.  Second,
because of the high sugar content and very low level of hop usage,
sanitation is extremely important. In Venezuela, all breweries pasteurize
their Malta production.

Salud,
Lorenzo
Maracay, Venezuela

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Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 14:48:52 -0500 (CDT)
From: Samuel Mize <smize at prime.imagin.net>
Subject: Dallas/chlorine over time/beetles

Greetings,

Notes from a few recent HBDs:

Jeffrey C Lawrence asked about Dallas area brewpubs.

I haven't gotten out to the brewpubs personally, but I got to the TX
Brewers Festival in Dallas.  I believe Copper Tank was there (they
were a block away), I know Routh Street Brewery was.  I think there's
a Two Rows in Dallas that was there.  All the attending brewers had
perfectly good brews, depending of course on your preference -- some
I didn't care for, but none were poorly made or Bud-like.  I don't
know about their food or atmosphere.
 
We did try Hoffbrau, and boy was I shocked.  I had lived in the D/FW
area before and liked the Hoffbrau in Fort Worth, but at the one in
Addison we got pedestrian steaks at expensive prices and lousy
service.  The brewed-there beer was OK.  Maybe it was a bad night.
 
If you're just looking for a good place to get a beer, I can personally
recommend The Flying Saucer (Addison and Fort Worth locations).  The
Ginger Man has a good rep.

 - - - - - - - - -
Rob Kienle left a carboy full of bleach solution for a week or so,
then used it without re-sanitizing:
> My rationale was that it had already been well sanitized after
> sitting there for a week (albeit uncovered) without being disturbed.
 ...
> 1.) Is it acceptable to leave a fermenter sitting full of sanitizer
> between brewing/racking sessions, and thus simplify the brewing/racking

I don't know how strong your solution is, but chlorine will evaporate
off over time.  (It's a gas, after all.)  If you seal the fermenter,
this should work dandy.

OTOH, you only left it for a week, the only source of microbes was
through the narrow neck of the carboy, and the solution probably
stayed at sanitizing strength for a good chunk of time.  If you got
an infection, I'd guess it was from another source.

But if you're going to leave a carboy with bleach solution for a few
days, you should seal it.  It'll stay sanitized and it won't be leaking
chlorine gas into your breathing air.

I don't know if iodophor evaporates out or not.

 - - - - - - - - -
Lee Carpenter writes:
> I especially liked Keith Royster's idea of pureeing [Japanese Beetles] in a
> blender with water and then spraying them on the plants as a repellent!
> Think about it, if you saw a place littered with smelly, pureed humans,
> would you hang around? I'm giving it a try. I have a few thousand in my bag
> traps right now.

I'm assuming you're talking about trying it with beetles!  :-)

 - - - - - - - - -
Best wishes and best brewing to all,
Sam Mize
- -- 
Samuel Mize -- smize at imagin.net -- Team Ada


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Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 22:44:15 -0500 (CDT)
From: Samuel Mize <smize at prime.imagin.net>
Subject: Dallas - more data

More data concerning Dallas, per Jeffrey Lawrence's request:

I thought I'd give a little more info about Dallas. Downtown is a
business district.  On the west end of downtown is the West End, a
commercially developed tourist dining/entertainment district. To the
east of downtown is Deep Ellum (around Elm street), which is an area
of arts, nightlife, and alternative lifestyles.  It contains good
brewpubs, night clubs, weird art shops, head shops, tattoo parlors,
etc.  Greenville Avenue runs North out of Deep Ellum.  It has a lot of
restaurants and clubs along it, getting more average (and somewhat
safer-feeling) as it heads north.  Another area of interest for beer
drinkers is Addison, a city in the north part of the metroplex. This
has some upscale spots, including the Flying Saucer (excellent tavern
with good beer selection), a couple of brewpubs, and restaurants.
 
We tried the Rock Bottom Brewery brewpub in Addison tonight.  This
turns out to be part of a national chain.  The food was good (steak,
pasta, pizza, fish/chips).  Service was excellent, dinners are $8-16.
 
We tried the beer sampler of house brews.  None showed any flaws; all
were well made from well-balanced recipes.  My wife and I have beer
tastes rather like Jack Sprat and his wife, and we both found a couple
of items we liked.  The Palomino Pale Ale has a lot of hop aroma and
flavor, the Coyote Western Ale has more hop bitterness, the Pelican
Brown Ale has a good balance of hops and malt sweetness. We didn't try
the Dallas American Light Ale, substituting for another glass of stout
on the sampler. Oddly enough, the Roadrunner Stout was the blandest
beer to my taste.
 
I thought some background and personal experience might be helpful.
Now back to the brewing data.

Sam Mize
- -- 
Samuel Mize -- smize at imagin.net -- Team Ada


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