---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com


Contents:
  venting, 1" NPSM fitting, kegs (John_E_Schnupp)
  Brew Clubs in Maine (Richard Buckberg)
  Follow-up to "Can I Save This Batch?"... ("Bessette, Bob")
  Re: Don't use your homegrown hops for brewing (Aeoleus)
  RE:  Beer Brains ("Mark Nelson")
  Homegrown Hops (DAN PILLSBURY)
  Toronto (Rust1d)
  Re: huh..dont use homegrown hops?? (Joe Rolfe)
  Brewpubs in Madison WI ("Nathan L. Kanous II")
  Hops drying, Grapes/wine, lager fermentations, ("David R. Burley")
  Canned wort, malta and botulism (Jeff Renner)
  eisbock icing (HOUCK KEITH A)
  Re: I'm going to build a brewery ("Michael Wood")
  RE:  Madison, WI brewpubs, Congratulations (Steve Potter)
  Culturing Yeast from Wyeast Packs ("Capt. Marc Battreall")
  Chilling before Bottling ("Rodroy Fingerhead")
  Kegging (RANDY ERICKSON)
  Kolsch = plager (Paul Niebergall)
  legal homebrewing (bryangros)
  Frogs?? (Mark Polnasek)
  Batch Sparging Formulation Spreadsheet (KennyEddy)
  Picnic Cooler Mash Tun (MCer1235)
  Rubber gaskets, long life of (Rick Olivo)
  hop help summary; chili beers (Bradley Sevetson)
  CO2 pressure vs. yeast growth (Andy Walsh)
  Delaware Homebrew Ban continued... (Mark Warrington)
  RIMS summary (Eamonn McKernan)
  Homegrown hops/Gasket problems (GuyG4)


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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 00:52:54 -0700
From: John_E_Schnupp at amat.com
Subject: venting, 1" NPSM fitting, kegs




Coming out of lurk mode to respond to a couple of things
I saw in a recent digest,

>I can install a 6" flue and enclose the boiling kettle burner frame
>with 1/8" plate steel with a vent to the flue. Will this provide safe
>ventilation?
My brew area is in the laundry room, in my basement.  I have a 4"
exhaust fan.  The local gas company service tech saw my set-up and
told me it was sufficient.  Make sure the exhaust is at least 4' away
from any fresh air inlet.  The exhaust fan provides enough draw to
keep the room from becoming too warm, I'm also a smoke and it removes
the cigarette smoke on short order too.

>The heater element is a 1"NPSM screw plug and all the copper tee
>I've found are 1" NPT. How do I get the two to thread together.
I was able to find a brass fitting on a water filter housing.  I cut
the threaded end off of the filter and effectively had a nut.  This
nut fit inside of a 1.5" T.  I pounded the T flat to the sides of the
nut (make some relieving cuts in the T for a tighter fit) and then
soldered them together with lead-free (silver) solder.  I sent this
idea the C.D. and I believe I saw something close to it in his
Electric Wort Boiler in the Heater Detail figure.

>My question is, how many kegs does one normally have ?
I have 6.  I use 3 gallon kegs (it was a fridge space issue).  My
fridge holds 4 kegs if properly arranged.  I typically do not have
all 6 filled at once, but if I do have more than 4 filled I store the
remainder in the coolest corner of the basement (68o even on the
warmest VT day).

>And the other question is , my local homebrew shop wants $40 for
>a used reconditioned keg. is this a good price?
I paid $35 for my used kegs.  I'd say it isn't too bad, especially if
you need one right now.  You may do better if you shop around.  If
kegs are acquired over time the initial $$$ outlay will be less, I
started with just one.  Also, think about purchasing any size, style
of keg for cheap and then swapping for the ones you want.  Bartering
is great.

John Schnupp, N3CNL
Colchester, VT
'95 XLH 1200



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Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 04:12:47 -0700 (PDT)
From: Richard Buckberg <buck at well.com>
Subject: Brew Clubs in Maine


Hello!

I just moved from San Francisco to Portland, Maine area.  Anyone know of any
homebrew clubs in the area?  Also, what are the best homebrew supply stores
in the area?

Thanks, all.  Really looking forward to unpacking my brewing gear.

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Date: Mon, 21 Jul 97 07:30:00 PDT
From: "Bessette, Bob" <bob.bessette at lamrc.com>
Subject: Follow-up to "Can I Save This Batch?"...


Fellow HBDers,
  I was the one who wrote in last week with a story about my beer having 
what appeared to be a whitish mold on the surface in the secondary.  Well, I 
checked my records and it was in the secondary for 3 1/2 months (I know, 
shame on me...).  I took off the airlock and smelled it anyway and the aroma 
was quite good.  I then tasted it and it was even better!  So this past 
weekend I ended up bottling it.  I am still a little unsure as to what the 
whitish mold was.  It was only on top of the beer and not within the beer 
itself.  During bottling time I drank the equivalent of about a glass of 
this as-yet uncarbonated beer and it tasted excellent.  So, I don't think I 
have anything to fear at this point.  My guess is that this will probably be 
the best batch I ever made.  For some reason I think that the mold was 
somehow related to the dryhopping.  I used Willamette pellets in a muslin 
bag.  Anyway,  I am not going to worry about it since I think I have a 
winner here.  Thanks to all who suggested to try the beer anyway and not to 
give up hope.  My beer store proprietor says that he oftentimes leaves his 
beer in the secondary for up to 5 months at a time.  Thanks again to all and 
I plan on getting back into my brewing mode in the near future...

Bob Bessette

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Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 08:32:16 -0400
From: Aeoleus <osiris at net-link.net>
Subject: Re: Don't use your homegrown hops for brewing

> Bottom line is enjoy growing your homegrown hop plants like you would any
> other ornamental yard plant, but don't use them for brewing.  And, if you must
> use them, age them well or they will be harsh.

I'm more of a Meadmaster than a brewer, but I do brew beer and I have
recently sunk two rhizomes.  I say this to the people who look at me
strange and ask me "why don't you just buy beer?"  First and foremost
I brew so that I can create things that can't be bought in a store.
Mead, for instance, is not commercially available here in Southwest
Michigan, and Cider wasn't either until just recently.  I've brewed
with things like molasses, blueberries, and cloves.  I have my own
unique tastes, and I'm sure every brewer knows what I'm talking about.

The other reason I brew is the same reason I bother to grow my own hops.
Two hundred years ago when this great country was founded, people
couldn't go to the store and buy commercially ground and tested hop
pellets to add to their beer.  Two thousand years ago, people didn't
have things like gelatin and sparkaloid.  My brewing reflects the trial
and error of the brewers of the past, and the more I go to the store
and buy the components of my beer and mead, the more I might as well
go to the store and buy my beer off the shelf.  Ancient brewers had to
make do with what they had in the way of the hops that they grew, and
so will I.  I feel that brewing differently is an insult to them.

Not everyone has the same reasons for brewing, and maybe hop pellets do
make a more consistantly superior product.  But now that I can grow my
own, just like my ancestors did, that is what I'll do and that is what
I'll use.  Brewing is not just about beer.  It's about the way things
used to be.

(whew!  that was a little longer than it should have been!) :)

- -- Brian Ream                                         Kalamazoo Michigan
- -- mailto:osiris at net-link.net            http://www.net-link.net/~osiris
- -- Never call someone stupid and misspell it.

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Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 08:37:08 -0400
From: "Mark Nelson" <menelson at mindspring.com>
Subject: RE:  Beer Brains

Sean and Dave both wrote that the brains effect might have been caused by
Irish Moss in the brew.  In my case, I used the normal amount of Irish Moss
(maybe 1/2 teaspoon for the 5 gallon batch), but got *lots* of brains. 
Several baseball-sized clumps of grey matter.  I don't think the 1/2 tsp of
Irish Moss could have caused this, right?  Just thought I'd throw that 2
cents in.


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Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 08:04:08 -0500
From: lordofbrewing at webtv.net (DAN PILLSBURY)
Subject: Homegrown Hops

I have been using homegrown EKG for a couple of years now with good
success. Hops can certainly still be used for flavor and aroma and I
also dry hop with the homegrown.  Perhaps the original poster is having
drying or storage difficulties....

Cheers,
Dan

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Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 09:17:43 -0400 (EDT)
From: Rust1d <rust1d at usa.net>
Subject: Toronto

Will be driving from Philly to Toronto and would like to know what the
locals do for fun, good food, and great beer. I found 8 brewpubs on the Net
so far but would like some personal opinions.

Thanks

John Varady                     http://www.netaxs.com/~vectorsys/varady
Boneyard Brewing                The HomeBrew Recipe Calculating Program
Lafayette Hill, PA              * New email address ***> rust1d at usa.net



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Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 09:52:40 -0400 (EDT)
From: Joe Rolfe <onbc at shore.net>
Subject: Re: huh..dont use homegrown hops??

 i say phooey too, it is the freshest hop your going to get.
sure age them if you must....

the only true problem is you do not know (unless tested)
the oil content.  but this is a great way to learn how
to brew by the seat of the pants.  throw some in wait ten minutes
sample, repeat....you will be able to brew better than using these
calculations (with regard to ibu).

good luck
joe

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Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 10:06:03 -0400
From: "Nathan L. Kanous II" <nkanous at tir.com>
Subject: Brewpubs in Madison WI

Last week:
>From: Brian Amick <baamick at seidata.com>
>I'll be in Madison, Wi, next week.  Does anyone know of anybrewpubs(snip) 

I have to say that the Great Dane is the main brewpub in Madison.
I also have to plug the Angelic Brewing Co..  Although the Angelic
had a rough start, nearly closing the doors at one point, they have
developed a nice business.  The beers are good.  They aren't the
best I have ever had, but I would not skip this pub.  I also prefer
some of the menu items over those available at the Great Dane.  As
long as you have enough time, go to both.  I can't think of the name
of the third pub.  It was very new when I left Madison and was not
as successful as the other two.  Dining was not as good, and beers 
were still in their infancy with some quirks to be worked out.  If
it is still in business, I would suspect that the beers have improved.

Additionally, if you have the time, go to the Essen Haus.  A german
restaurant on the East Side with a multitude of german beers on 
tap.  Worth the stop.
  
Hope this helps and is not too late.

Nathan in Frankenmuth, MI

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Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 10:55:05 -0400
From: "David R. Burley" <Dave_Burley at compuserve.com>
Subject: Hops drying, Grapes/wine, lager fermentations,

Brewsters:

Mark Witherspoon ends up recommending a drying
 time of 2 hours in a paper bag in the attic for his
 homegrown hops.

Mark do you really mean 2 hours or do you mean =

2 days?  or 2 weeks?  I can't imagine two hours =

as doing much based on my experience. How big
 was the bag and how many hops in the bag.
Were your hops too mature when you picked them?

Hops should be soft, very slightly papery and green
 with a very light yellow border with lupulin powder
 apparent and not crisp when picked.

  Green hops are about 80% moisture, so they =

need drying well in a thin layer to prevent mildew.
 A *little* oxidation during drying is good as it brings
 up the flowery tones of the hops. Hallertauer hops
 are routinely aged for a year by German brewers
 for this purpose. In the good old days the British,
 likewise, aged the hundred-weight  "pockets" of
 dried compressed hops for at least several months
 before use, to mellow the spiciness. These were
 gradually blended off into the older hops to maintain
 constant quality.

Count out thirty or so cones, place them very  loosely
 in a single layer cheesecloth bag and dry them along
 with the other hops.  Weigh the bag daily over the
 drying period and when you get the same weight
 after a few weighings the hops are as dry as you will
 get them.
 If you don't have a scale then rig up a ruler "balance"
 to allow you to weigh to constant weight.  Seal them
 in "boil in a bag" plastic bags with a vacuum sealer
 if you have one or in lidded glass jars and freeze them.
 Otherwise, keep them as cool as possible and as
 free from oxygen as you can. Keep them in the dark.

I agree with Pat Babcock that just because you don't
have a solid alpha acid number, doesn't mean that
 you shouldn't  use your hops. Especially as aroma
 hops where alpha acid content is unimportant.
=2E
As Pat said, for thousands of years beer was made without
access to the alpha number of the hops.  Start out assuming
your hops are in the normal range and adjust on successive
brews. Freezing them will stabilize this number over time.
 --------------------------------------------------
J Dickens asks:

> I have been thinking about
>making a red wine recently and I'm wondering about several things:
>fermenting in a carboy, do the grapes go in and out thru the neck
>easily?
>What yeast to use to make a cabernet sauvignon?

 Do not ferment the crushed, destemmed  grapes
 in a carboy, rather in an open fermenter
 ( e.g. a plastic bucket or garbage can, etc.)
  covered with a plastic sheet for a week or so
 before pressing off the  fermenting wine into a carboy. =

 Your Hb/Wine hobby shop can recommend a good wine yeast.
 Treat with 1/8 tsp metabisulfite per 5 gallons after crushing
 and before fermentation. An hour or so later add your yeast *starter*.
- ---------------------------------------------------
Brian Amrick asks about the effect of using a lager
 versus an ale yeast in making a lager style beer and
 about  the use of a spare refrigerator.

My answer, based on a series of experiments with warm
 fermentations and a number of yeasts. Use the Czech
 style lager yeast from Wyeast.  Ferment it cool if you can,
 otherwise don't worry. I have used it at 65F  without any real
 problem as long as I leave it on the clean ( I.e. racked off the
 primary sludge)  yeast to clean up the by-products of fermentation.
 Allow it to sit for a month or so in the fridge.  Bottles and kegs
 behave similarly. When the naturally carbonated bottle or
 naturally carbonated keg goes clear after about a month at
 normal fridge temperatures, it is excellent.

Ale yeast will not be as good as they will not metabolize their
 by-products at low temperatures and higher fermentation
 temperatures will give a spicier taste.
- ---------------------------------------------------

Keep on brewin'


Dave Burley
Kinnelon, NJ 07405
103164.3202 at compuserve.com
Dave_Burley at compuserve.com  =

Voice e-mail OK =


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Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 10:25:53 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu>
Subject: Canned wort, malta and botulism

Brewers

1)  Thousands of homebrewers have canned wort for starters for years with
no known problems from botulism (surely we'd have heard of it if there were
cases - botulism is rare enough to rate news coverage).

2)  Millions of Latin Americans and others drink pasturized wort called
malta every year without any apparent botulism problems.

3)  I draw from this what seems to me to be an obvious conclusion.  Where
theory and observation conflict, as in this case, the theory must be
re-examined.  It would seem that theorists are being VERY cautious since
botulism is so deadly.  I think we are safe using canned wort for starters.

Jeff

 -=-=-=-=-
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan c/o nerenner at umich.edu
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943. 



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Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 15:47:09 +0000 (GMT)
From: HOUCK KEITH A <HOUCK_KEITH_A at LILLY.COM>
Subject: eisbock icing

I have an eisbock in the primary fermenter right now and would like 
suggestions on the lagering and freezing process. First, is the freezing 
and removal of ice done before or after lagering? Also, I have come across 
several ideas for the freezing and ice removal but am looking for more. 
Without access to a chest freezer, can dry ice be used alternatively? Might 
this result in too rapid freezing and not selective freezing of water? All 
ideas would be appreciated. Thanks.

Keith Houck
Chapel Hill, NC


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Date:          Mon, 21 Jul 1997 09:32:26 +0000
From: "Michael Wood" <thor at dnai.com>
Subject:       Re: I'm going to build a brewery

Tony Maurer wrote:

>	I'm going to build a brewery. I've got a 12'9"x10'9" spring house, 
>all the beer gear in one spot. The spring house water temp is 45-50 winter 
>and 60-65 summer. There will be a 60 amp service and running water in the 
>brewery. The brew system will be a two tier RIMS 10 to 20 gallon. I'm still 
>looking for two SS drums in this size. The mash system similar Keith Royster 
>http://www.ays.net/RIMS/ (6000 W water wizard element, a Little Giant pump 
>3-md-mt-hc and a PID controller)

Sounds like a great project! 
I was planning on making changes to my current system to make it 
electrical in August. I currently use propane to fire everything but this 
necessitates going outdoors to do the breweing. 

>The heater element is a 1"NPSM screw plug and all the copper tee 
> I've found are 1" NPT. How do I get the two to thread together.

My proposed plan was not to use the threaded element but use the 
bolt on type element and make the appropriate flange for my hot 
liquor tank and boil kettle. If you've ever seen the bolt on type 
(its also at graingers), it has four holes on the plate the holds the 
element. The one I bought has two gaskets, one a flat one that Im 
assuming is used to seal the element to the flange with bolts. The 
other is a donut shaped gasket that I think also must help in sealing 
the element. 

My plan was to make the bolt on fittings out of stainless and then 
weld the fittings to my hot liquor tank and brew kettle. The flange 
would look like this:
(excuse my ascii drawing)
      _______
     ! *        * !    the * are the bolts,
     !      #      !    the # is the hole for the element.
     ! *____* !
     
Im not really planning on using the donut shaped gasket. Maybe 
someone out there knows how its used. My only guess is that the 
inside of the hole for the element has some sort of cylinder with a 
hole at the end that is used to compress the fitting.

As far as the electrical goes, theres a great aritcle by Ken Schwartz 
on building a 5 gallon electric system 
( http://users.aol.com/kennyeddy/plasticbrew/electric.html ). He aslo 
addresses larger systems at the end of his article so you can figure 
out how longs its going to take to heat up your water.

As for the controller for the heat, I was playing with the idea of a 
computer controlled element using a modified 220V dimmer module from 
Jameco. 

Anyways, I hope this is helpful.

THOR (aka Michael Wood)

 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
email addresses: mikew at ricochet.net, thor at onthemenu.com
                 thor at dnai.com, thor at expressway.com

Raw Web page  at  http://www.dnai.com/~thor/index.html

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Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 12:11:44 -0500
From: Steve Potter <spotter at MERITER.COM>
Subject: RE:  Madison, WI brewpubs, Congratulations

This may not be a timely reply to Brain Amick's questions about
brewpubs in Madison, WI but I just arrived back home  today from the
AHA Convention.

While the Great Dane is a good brewpub, the real gem in Madison is the
Angelic.  They only have 5 beers at a time on tap, but they are of
uniformly high quality.  My personal favorite is the ESB.  It pushes the
upper end of the style and might be better classified as Strong Bitter if I
could stop drinking it for long enough for it to mature.  The Blonde Ale
won a gold at the GABF last year, and several other of the beers have
won medals in various competitions.   

While in Madison area, drive across the city limits to Middleton -- home
of Capital Brewing.  It is a great lager micro.  They give tours Thursday
and Fridays at 3:30 and at 1:00 and 3:30 on Saturdays.

For those of you wondering why there have not been any posts from Al
K the past few days -- he was busy picking up a medal for his mead at
the convention.  And at long last, George Fix won homebrewer of the
year.    

Cheers!
Steve

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Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 14:13:02 -0400
From: "Capt. Marc Battreall" <batman at reefnet.com>
Subject: Culturing Yeast from Wyeast Packs

Just got finished reading (again) Dave Draper's article
of the many ways to culture yeast from different sources.
One of the methods describes culturing yeast to slants from
a pack of Wyeast after it has been ruptured and allowed to
propagate in the normal fashion.
I was wondering if anyone out there has tried this, or better
yet, tried culturing it from the pure yeast strain packet 
inside the outer pouch without rupturing it?

Personal direct responses are fine as are responses to HBD.

Thanks,

Marc Battreall
batman at reefnet.com

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Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 11:27:01 PDT
From: "Rodroy Fingerhead" <sjbh64 at hotmail.com>
Subject: Chilling before Bottling

I've got a lager, at ale temps, in secondary ferment.  I know that if
I put it in the fridge, it will clear very nicely.  The problem is that
while I can pry that much space free for a few days to a week, there's 
just no way my wife will yield that much storage space for any length
of time.  So, can I put the brew in the fridge until it clears, then
take it out, prime it, bottle it, and store it at basement temps, or 
will the cooling then warming have an adverse effect on the beer.  
Or, should I simply get a divorce.  Don't get me wrong, she's a 
wonderful wife and mother, but beer is beer, after all!

Thanks

Rodroy Fingerhead

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

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Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 12:46:39 -0700
From: RANDY ERICKSON <RANDYE at mid.org>
Subject:  Kegging

"Stephen Jordan" <komusubi at together.net> asks about kegging:

>>> Which leads me to another question. I have two other batches
brewing and this weekend will start another. My question is, how many
kegs does one normally have ? 
<<<
Well I have 5 kegs, but they're all full right now, so I guess the minimum
number is at least 6  ;-)

>>> And the other question is my local homebrew shop wants $40 for a
used reconditioned keg, is this a good price?
<<<
I bought my first two from a mail order place in Texas for $20 each and
neither worked as received.  The first had worn out poppets, and the
second had a broken dip tube assembly and the wrong lid.  While it didn't
cost a whole lot of money, the time spent, aggravation, and
inconvenience were great.  I bought my third keg from the local shop for
$40, and to me, it was well worth it because I got a decent product.

I bought my last two kegs from HopTech for $25 each, and they were in
very good shape.

I've also seen adds for 6 for $100, but as always, caveat emptor!

Cheers -- Randy

Randy Erickson
Modesto, California
randye at mid.org

Stanislaus Hoppy Cappers
c/o Barley & Wine, Ceres, CA

"Suppose you were an idiot and suppose you were a member of
Congress.  But I repeat myself." -- Mark Twain



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Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 15:03:05 -0500
From: Paul Niebergall <pnieb at burnsmcd.com>
Subject:  Kolsch = plager

Greetings:

Brian writes in HBD 2466 about trying to make a different beer (other
than ale) without a spare fridge.

I have found that I can make something of a lager (psuedo lager or
plager) with Wyeast Kolsch yeast (sorry - I forgot the number).  I use 10
pounds of german lager malt (Ireks works good) for a five gallon batch.  I
also through in lots of Sazz hops (boiling and finishing) to get a good
flavor.  

The last batch I made this way fermented at about 65 degrees F for 2
weeks.  I then transfered to secondary for another month before bottling.
At all times the beer was between 65 and 70 degrees F.  The beer was
so good, I seriously thought of entering it as a pilsner in a contest.  It was
about as close to a pils as any beer I've ever tasted - light, very smooth,
dry finish, no esters or strange flavors.   Even my friends who don't like
my home brew because of that ale taste will drink my plager.  

Anyway it may not be a true lager, but it the Kolsch strain makes a damn
fine beer that would probably pass for a lager (even to trained tasters)
I've have made three batches of this beer in the last 18 months and
every time it came out excellent.  This fall I'm considering making a plager
bock and see how well the Kolsch strain does at darker beers.

Has anyone else out there had good results with imitating a lager with
the Kolsch strain??  Please e-mail or post your results.

Nazdrowie,

Paul Niebergall



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Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 13:21:42 -0700
From: bryangros at juno.com
Subject: legal homebrewing

Mark Warrington <warringt at a1.esvax.umc.dupont.com> writes:
>Exercising a little known anomaly of the Delaware Code (based on 1935
>language), wherein "Alcoholic Liquors" are defined as including
>distilled spirits, wine and beer, homebrewed beer falls under this
>catch-all term! 
>	Only wine made for personal consumption is exempted (added
1956).
>Therefore, when Title 4, Alcoholic Beverages, talks about unlicensed
>manufacture of "alcoholic liquors" it includes by default homebrew! 

Same thing in Tennessee. 
Home production of alcohol was illegal, but an exception for winemaking
was added at some point.

Earlier this year, legislators were contacted, bills were introduced,
and beer became part of this exception in April.  While there are many
legislators in the bible belt who automatically vote no for anything to
do
with alcohol, there was no real opposition to the bill.

You just have to find out which of your legislators tends to sponsor
alcohol related legislation and contact them.  The AHA also provided
us with assistance with locating volunteer homebrewers across the
state.

Good luck.

   - Bryan Gros
     Gros at bigfoot.com
     Oakland, CA (formerly of Nashville)

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Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 16:39:37 -0400
From: Mark Polnasek <dolt at mnsinc.com>
Subject: Frogs??

Dennis Miller got it right the other night on his show:
"Would you really want to drink a beer that was recommended by frogs?"

            Mark P.

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Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 18:32:48 -0400 (EDT)
From: KennyEddy at aol.com
Subject: Batch Sparging Formulation Spreadsheet

I put together a simple spreadsheet to help you design a batch-sparge recipe.
 It can be downloaded from

ftp://members.aol.com/kennyeddy/files/bsparge.zip

Contained in the zip file is a readme.txt file with a discussion of batch
sparging and instructions for using the spreadsheet, along with a sample
recipe & process.

Although I did a couple of no-sparge batches last winter, I have to be honest
and admit that I haven't actually batch-sparged, but the "theory'  behind the
spreadsheet should be sound.  Of course, should you find any problems with it
or have any questions or comments, you can always feel free to e-mail me.

*****

Ken Schwartz
El Paso, TX
KennyEddy at aol.com
http://members.aol.com/kennyeddy


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Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 18:34:24 -0400 (EDT)
From: MCer1235 at aol.com
Subject: Picnic Cooler Mash Tun

Hi!

I am considering making a Rectangular cooler mash/lauter tun so I can move to
all grain brewing and I have a couple of questions.

What are the benefits of PVC or Copper tubbing?

Is there any benefit from a suction break tube?

Private Email is fine if prefered.

Rene'


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Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 18:48:45 -0500
From: Rick Olivo <ashpress at win.bright.net>
Subject: Rubber gaskets, long life of

The big enemies of rubber of any kind are ozone in the atmosphere,
ultraviolet light and loss of volatiles within the rubber compound over
time. Rubber is an inherently unstable compound which is only partially
treated through the vulcanization process. Silicone "rubber" is not a
rubber at all but a long-chain polymer that has infinately better
long-term storage characteristics. I would suggest trying to find the
appropriate size seals in silicone rubber in the future. Neoprene rubber
is an alternative, being much longer-lived in trying conditions than
regular rubber. I think it may be quite difficult to find these items in
the propper size. So then the question of survival for the requiste 21
years becomes a question of blocking the causes of rubber deterioration.
UV light shouldn't be much of a problem. I assume you are not going to
leave the mead lying about in bright sunlight... Sealing the cap area in
a matrix of some impermeable substance appears to be the next best
solution. Maderias and sherries stored for long periods of time used
"sealing wax" which was not a wax we think of in terms of candles and so
on, but rather a thermoplastic like material. Hot glue as a substitute?
Pitch was also used for the same purpose. I know there is a vinyl
material used to coat tool handles. Is this a possiblility? I doubt that
ordinary paraffine based waxes would have the requiste staying power,
but bees wax may do the trick if it is kept in a cool dark area. There
are also materials like RTV sealant that could serve, but I would worry
about the strong acetic acid odor getting into the mead. I do know there
are silicone caulks that doe not use acetic acid. Could be a real pain
to get off, though... Hope this helps you out.

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Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 19:14:20 -0400
From: sevetson at milbrandt.wustl.edu (Bradley Sevetson)
Subject: hop help summary; chili beers



Fellow Brewing Maniacs:

       Thanks for all the responses to my question a few weeks ago regarding 
my struggling Centennial plant with its yellowing leaves.  Here's a summary 
of the advice I received:

        1.  Several people said that I might have a nutrient deficiency, 
with the guesses ranging from magnesium to iron to nitrogen.  They suggested 
fertilizing to correct the problem.
        2.  Several people mentioned the practice of pruning the lower 3-4 
feet of the plant, which is where my yellowing leaves happened to be, in 
order to discourage insects from climbing up.
        3.  One person emphasized the importance of twining vines clockwise, 
and thinning the shoots coming out of the ground to the healthiest 6-10.

        So what did I do?  First I added epsom salts, because someone wrote 
me that tomatoes have exactly the same appearance when low in magnesium.  
Unfortunately, this did nothing.
        A week or so later I added fertilizer (Miracid--one respondent told 
me that hops like a slightly acidic pH, plus it was what I had in the 
garage) and almost immediately I got a burst of growth, with one shoot 
flying out of the ground so quickly that it's halfway up my trellis already. 
 New shoots are coming out all over the plant.  However, this also had no 
effect on the leaves that had already turned yellow, although some of the 
new shoots are emanating from this central vine.
        My guess is that the whatever happened to the yellowing leaves went 
too far to be reversed.  But maybe I'll be surprised.  I'm not too 
optimistic about getting cones from this plant at this point.
        BTW, I also disagree with the recent post discouraging use of 
homegrown hops in your beer.  Last year I had great luck dryhopping with a 
batch of Cascades---the closest to that Sierra Nevada aroma that I've ever 
achieved. I let them dry on a cookie sheet in the basement for two weeks, 
then left them in the freezer for about 6 months.  When I put them in the 
freezer they smelled pretty grassy, but after months of slow (but 
uncontrolled) oxidation in my imperfectly sealed plastic bags they tasted 
real good.  Of course using them for bittering would be more of a crapshoot 
without an alpha acid test, but unless you have lots of them why waste them 
on bittering?

*****************************************************************************
CHILI BEER QUESTION:

        I want to make a nice summer chili beer that's got lots of chili 
flavor but is not too spicy-hot.  My model is the chili beer served at the 
Flat Branch in Columbia, MO; I've tried some in New Mexico that were well 
made but a little hot for my tastes (particularly at Eske's in Taos).  I'm 
thinking it should be a light ale, gently hopped, maybe with 10-20% wheat 
and a fairly neutral yeast. (Incidentally, the Flat Branch offers theirs 
with tomato juice.)  But how do you do the peppers?  And are jalapenos a 
good choice?  Our waiter told us one time that they use whole jalapenos, 
lots of them, in the secondary, and since they're never cut open you don't 
get a high level of spicinesss but the pepper flavor really comes through.  
Does anyone believe this?
        I've also seen suggestions that chilis be sliced open, deseeded, and 
steamed before being thrown in the secondary.  And of course some people add 
a chili per bottle.  If I get some interesting ideas, I'd be happy to do a 
split batch and let you know the results.

                                        Thanks for your help,

                                        Brad Sevetson
                                        St. Louis, MO
         


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Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 11:49:41 -0700
From: Andy Walsh <awalsh at crl.com.au>
Subject: CO2 pressure vs. yeast growth

I'll try and keep this brief.
There is quite close agreement in the papers I have read on the
influence of CO2 pressures on yeast growth.
Renger et al (JIB,92 - details posted earlier) have found *very close*
agreement amongst the various studies (Norstedt/75, Rice/77 and their
own). They have scaled the results from each, such that 1ATM CO2 gives
100% final biomass, to reduce other fermentation conditions on results
(yeast variety, temp, agitation, wort composition etc.). An ASCII graph
follows:

biomass concentration (%)
150|
   |
   |  x
   |     x
   |
100|        x0*
   |             0 
   |             x 
   |
   |                x 0*
50 |
   |
   |
   |                             
   |                             *
0  |__________________________________________
   0         1         2         3         4 CO2 pressure (ATM)
x Norstedt
0 Rice
* Renger

This graph shows a reasonably (inverse) linear relationship between CO2
pressure and yeast growth. Note the lower limit at 3ATM, which
corresponds to minimal growth (ie. final biomass similar to original
pitching mass).

Other comparisons show similarities between ester and fusel production
with CO2 pressure, which are attributed mainly to yeast growth effects.

>From the same paper,
"The influence of size and geometry of brewery fermentation vessels on
beer flavour and aroma formation is generally attributed to carbon
dioxide pressure."

This is really no big deal. From a homebrew perspective, it is much
easier to keep CO2 pressure more or less constant rather than other
factors affecting yeast growth (eg. effective pitching rate and
oxygenation will generally vary over a very wide range, and thus have
far greater variable influence on yeast growth, hence flavour profile).

Andy.

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Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 22:54:14 +0000
From: Mark Warrington <warringt at erols.com>
Subject: Delaware Homebrew Ban continued...

>Subject: State of Delaware Enforces Little Known Homebrew Ban!
>
>Greetings from the People's Republic of Delaware!!!
>
>As has been reported on usenet earlier this week, The First State
>Brewers
>(http://triton.cms.udel.edu/%7Eoliver/firststate/firststate.html) had
>planned to have a "Best of Delaware" homebrew competition sponsored by
>and hosted at The Rockford Brewing Company (microbrewery) in Wilmington,
>DE this month
>(http://triton.cms.udel.edu/%7Eoliver/firststate/DBA/index.html). The
>State of Delaware had other plans!
>        Exercising a little known anomaly of the Delaware Code (based on 1935
>language), wherein "Alcoholic Liquors" are defined as including
>distilled spirits, wine and beer, homebrewed beer falls under this
>catch-all term! 
>        Only wine made for personal consumption is exempted (added 1956).
>Therefore, when Title 4, Alcoholic Beverages, talks about unlicensed
>manufacture of "alcoholic liquors" it includes by default homebrew! 
>        When President Carter signed the law in 1978 making it legal to make
>beer and wine for personal consumption the wine hobby people assumed
>that beermaking was now legal in Delaware as well as winemaking. ABC
>never enforced the ban against beermaking until now. 
>        Hopefully this quirk in the code can be addressed as soon as possible
>by the legislature and the Attorney General's office and we can get back
>to our "hobby!"
>
>Mark Warrington
>Tri-State Brewers
>tristateb at aol.com

A couple of additions....I forgot to include Tri-State Brewers URL:
http://users.aol.com/tristateb/welcome.html
We have the text of the Delaware Code regarding Alcoholic Beverages and
the text of the letter from the ABC to First State Brewers.

Also, First State Brewers (above) have taken their web page down until
this thing is resolved. They are concerned that it will be made public
by the Wilmington News-Journal paper (a Gannett subsidiary with vast
possible circulation) and could raise the ire of the ABC to start
punitive actions which they have not done so far.
I feel that open discussion is positive, so I will keep our pages on
line. (They are in Virginia to be safe!!!) Our club covers Pennsylvania
and Maryland too, so we don't feel we are promoting criminal behavior by
providing links to information around the country and world. If
something is illegal in your jurisdiction then you should obey the law
of that jurisdiction. Until this is resolved in Delaware we will brew in
Maryland or not at all! (I'm looking for land in Cecil County, MD to
build on as we speak!)

Smile!

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Date: 	Mon, 21 Jul 1997 23:24:14 -0400
From: Eamonn McKernan <eamonn at atmosp.physics.utoronto.ca>
Subject: RIMS summary

Greetings brewers and brewsters,
	I thought I'd post a summary of the responses that I got to 
my RIMS question. As you might recall, I kept getting stuck 
recirculations. 
	- Some people blamed my pump. It is pretty powerful, but I 
throttle it WAY back (downstream of the pump), and still have problems. 
	- Some warned me to be careful about getting air in my system. I 
used to have air in my heating chamber, but I solved that problem. Air 
anywhere in the system would prevent good flow, not increase it. I can 
get huge flow if I want, it just sticks the recirculation sooner. 
Continually sucking air would cause cavitation-like noises from the pump 
which I would detect (I don't). Air could lead to HSA, not sticking.
	- I was told that the only solution was to build a lauter grant. 
This was described recently in this hallowed forum. I figure that if most 
RIMSers can get away without such an added complication, so should I.  
	- I was warned not to run the pump during dough-in, and to let 
things settle for 10 min before starting the pump. I do. There seems to 
be some confusion on this point though. Some feel that the recirculation 
should start immediately after dough-in.
	- I was advised to have a thin mash. > 1.5 qt/# + underlet. 
Thinning of the mash doesn't seem to help.
	- I was told to hook up a sight tube to my small fitting. This is 
what I had it welded in for, but couldn't easily locate glass tubing. 
Plastic hose could serve me for now though. This will help me monitor 
suction, and throttle back when the flow is too fast. A good idea. 
	- Open area could be improved. Many RIMSers have less, so I should 
be OK. 

	And the winners are...

 	- Michael Wood and Jeremy Bergsman independently advided me that 
the SS mesh I am using is probably too fine, and is getting gummed up 
with small particles, restricting the flow. I believe I heard about using 
mesh from the original Rodney Morris article. Is the  mesh truly the 
culprit? I thing I'll go looking for those thicker gauge aluminum mesh 
pizza pans (presently I have a pizza pan with drilled holes  covered with 
20 gauge SS mesh). I could look for some SS to cut and drill, but for 
now, a fast, simple replacement manifold is called for. I  figure it'll 
be a $10-$15 test. If I can't find thick mesh, I'll have to hit the drill 
press though...

	Thanks to all for the helpful advice.
	Eamonn McKernan

	eamonn at atmosp.physics.utoronto.ca




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Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 23:45:48 -0400 (EDT)
From: GuyG4 at aol.com
Subject: Homegrown hops/Gasket problems

In Monday's HBD, several decry problems with homegrown hops.  Don
VanValkenburg sez "don't use 'em at all, use only for ornamentals", citing
perfectly valid reasoning. Don, just send 'em, postpaid to me, flowers only
mind you, and I'll dispose of 'em for you.  I'll keep 'em away from my
neighbors yappy dog, too.

Mark Witherspoon in Seattle sez drying for 2 hours in a paperbag presented
the best results. Well, I dried some on a window screen in a hot garage in
Spokane for 4 days, and still they were'nt dry enough. Heckfire, when I lived
in Puget Sound, I didn't get dry myself for two years!!!! Dry 'em more, and
they'll smell like hops, not like grass.  Pat Babcock, as seems to be so
often the case, explained succinctly that they oughta be used.  I'm growing
Nugget, Perle, and Saaz in my yard, my neighbor grows Cascade, Fuggles, and
Willamette.  We've got enough for us and everybody else.  No, I don't know
what the AA% is of these hops, and I don't care.  They make good
beer....which is good enough, I guess.  

Gordon Camp is trying to store barleywine until his son's 21st birthday in a
swingtop bottle.  My advice: melt some wax at least 3" deep in a pot.  Cover
the top of the bottle with petroleum jelly, or keglube, or what have you.
 Dip the bottle into the wax beyond the level of petroleum jelly or keglube.
 I'd only do this with some of the bottles, seeing if the gaskets on others
stayed OK...hedging one's bet, if you will.  Good luck.  And a toast to your
son.

GuyG4 at aol.com
Guy Gregory
Lightning Creek Home Brewery
Spokane, WA 

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---