HOMEBREW Digest #2472 Tue 29 July 1997

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		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com

  Brewing water pH strangeness (John_E_Schnupp)
  Unfair Competitions or Poor Losers? (John Sullivan)
  Any problems w/animal dander affecting beer? (Kate Cone)
  Hops and milk production? (AJN)
  Apology to Jeff Renner and HBD readers ("Alan McKay")
  Malta, Botulism and Canning Foods ("Alan McKay")
  O2 et all (TheTHP)
  Misc/AHA/Legal stuff (Louis Bonham)
  Re: MINI KEGS (Joe Rolfe)
  Yeasty taste with liquid yeast ("Jennings, James")
  Re: Hombrew on CNN (Oliver Weatherbee)
  Re: lawnmower beer (Glyn Crossno)
  Mash efficiency (Mark Arneson)
  Delaware brewing (Matthew Arnold)
  Two Dogs Lemon Brew/Lawnmower brew (Barry Finley)
  dry ice in fermenter/yeast cake problem? (Rae Christopher J)
  RE: Thoughts wanted on 1.5 litre mini kegs (Rory Stenerson)
  HomeMade Crystal Malt -- Questions (KennyEddy)
  RE: Blue Moon / Results of my accidental full decoction (Matt Gadow)
  A big thanks--Was new kegger needs help (Paul R Buettner)
  Lambic/AHA Commitments (RANDY ERICKSON)
  Re:  Formula for calculating %-alcohol needed (Andrew E Howard)
  Homebrewing on TV ("Richard Cuff")
  Re: Victorian traditions; a "pipe" (Scott Murman)
  Chile Beer ("BRIAN F. THUMM")
  Rubber Gasket update (Gordon & Cindy Camp)
  Re: Contest Entry (NAZELROD)
  Re: Contest Entry (Dion Hollenbeck)
  Botulism facts and figures ("Alan McKay")
  Cylindriconical Fermenter (Joe Stone)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 00:10:15 -0700 From: John_E_Schnupp at amat.com Subject: Brewing water pH strangeness Jim's "problem?" >I read my tap water pH at ~6.4 but when I boil it for about >20 mins to remove chlorine I get areading of ~ 8.8. What is the temp of the pH readings? I can't remember which way the pH changes in relation to temp but I do know that the effect is significant, especially if your pH meter (do you use a meter or paper?) is not temperature compensated. Assuming the temp is correct, what strength is your acid? John Schnupp, N3CNL Colchester, VT 95 XLH 1200 Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 06:19:41 -0700 From: John Sullivan <sullvan at anet-stl.com> Subject: Unfair Competitions or Poor Losers? Dennis or Jennifer or Dennis & Jennifer wrote: >I have a question to all the seasoned contest winners. We just recently >got the results to a contest that we entered by checking >http://www.ghgcorp.com/rlivingston/rendezbrew.html I found it a little >stange that almost every winner was from the club that sponsered the >contest?? We are not being "poor losers" I just would like to know if >anybody has a way to weed out the not so fair contests and enter the >good ones. Any suggestions or thoughts about results like to ones >posted on the Lunar Rendezbrew page would be appreciated. I checked that site out. There were six clubs with winning entries and at least six entries for individuals not associated with a club. This is normal as far as my experience goes. At homebrew competitions (unless you are dealing with one of the large National comps), the host club always enters more beer than other local clubs. Other local clubs enter more beers than non-local clubs. Non-local clubs enter more beers than unaffiliated individuals. As a result, more winners come from the host and local clubs. Your posting might have been more gracious if you hadn't associated your losing with the competition in question. By doing this you have insinuated publicly that this competition may not be on the up and up. Clubs that have annual competitions have little to gain by rigging things and a lot to lose. My club's main source of annual income after dues is our annual competition. You would not long have a homebrew competition if someone is slamming your competition publicly as being unfair. Even though all of judging is a crapshoot, you might just want to consider the possibility that your entries did not measure up to those entered by the FINE RESPECTED local homebrew clubs that were mentioned in the list of winners on that home page. I am not from that region, but I am familiar with the reputation of the Bay Area Mashtronauts and Foam Rangers. I probably should not have even responded to this since you are going to be flamed big time anyway. John Sullivan St. Louis, MO Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 07:35:59 -0400 (EDT) From: katecone at ime.net (Kate Cone) Subject: Any problems w/animal dander affecting beer? We just got a new dog, and her kennel is in the room adjacent to my "brewery" (extra kitchen). There is no door to the kitchen, and although I'm trying to be meticulous about vacuuming up dog hair, I'm wondering if anyone has had a problem with dander, etc. affecting their beer. I'm hoping to brew this week. I'll wipe all surfaces down w/bleach & water solution. Kate Cone Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 07:19:55 -0400 (EDT) From: AJN <neitzkea at frc.com> Subject: Hops and milk production? Hi all I was talking to my in-laws yesterday (they rent a house on a dairy farm), and they were telling me of a practice that the farmers used to do a long time ago. Apparently, the farmers would have the spent hops from a local brewery brought in for the cows to eat. This was to make milk production (supposedly) go up. This practice is no longer allowed, does anybody know why milk production goes up when hops are used as feed? Does anybody know why this is no longer allowed? Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 07:52:54 -0400 From: "Alan McKay" <Alan.McKay.amckay at nt.com> Subject: Apology to Jeff Renner and HBD readers Hi folks, I'd like to publicly apologize to Jeff Renner for calling him a "yahoo" in a recent HBD. As much as I disagree with his guesswork on canning wort, the language I used was uncalled for. My apologies extend as well to the fine people who read this forum. I tend to get a big emotional about something as serious as dying, and don't like to see guesswork being propagated. Mr. Renner may be a fine brewer, but the fact that even the Siebel institute couldn't provide an answer on canning wort shows that knowing how to brew beer and knowing how to can foods are two entirely different things altogether. We shouldn't forget that. But it still doesn't excuse the tone of my message. sorry, -Alan McKay Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 08:19:17 -0400 From: "Alan McKay" <Alan.McKay.amckay at nt.com> Subject: Malta, Botulism and Canning Foods HBD readers, Well, it seems as though up in as deep as I've ever been in my life. Please accept in my defense the following letter, which I just sent to someone's private Email. There are some very important points in here which explain my feelings on this issue. -Alan Well, I haven't actually done the research myself, so I obviously don't have the answers first-hand. However, I was an active home-canner before becoming a homebrewer, and have read several good books on the topic, some of which go into detail about some of the research that's been done ("Putting Food By", for example). Yes, there is danger in everything we do, which is exactly why my page on home canning states explicity that you should only be doing it if you've personally read a good book on it. This sentiment is also echoed in the newsgroups and the FAQs of those groups. (http://www.magma.ca/~bodnsatz/brew/tips/yeast/pressure-can.html) Everything I've read stresses very solemnly that boiling water canning just isn't safe above pH 4.6, since botulism spores can survive up to 230+F, and above that pH. As I stated in my apology that I just posted to HBD, brewing beer and canning foods are 2 entirely different things. The fact that even the Siebel Institute couldn't provide an answer on this matter stresses that point, and should make homebrewers all the more wary. To make matters worse, a recent issue of Zymurgy actually gave details on canning starter wort with the "open kettle" method (i.e. pour boiling wort into jars and screw on the lids, no processing afterwards). When there is so much mis-information in the homebrewing community about this matter, as homebrewer and home canner, I feel it my duty to try to educate people. Then people come along with their guesswork and destroy all that hard work. That's extremely frustrating. Would you take advice on making beer from someone who's never read a single book on the topic? I hope not. Why then should you take advice on canning wort from someone who's never read a single thing on that? I have no idea what "Malta" is, nor how it is made. I do, however, know what I've read about canning foods and liquids, and it points to the above practices being unsafe. Anyway, it still doesn't excuse the tone of my message, which is why I posted the apology. In the future I'll try to keep from getting so hot under the collar. cheers, -Alan Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 08:22:33 -0400 (EDT) From: TheTHP at aol.com Subject: O2 et all Jason, My O2 setup was 67$ .05 micron stainless stintered stone, regulator and small bottle. 1 lb? The size you usually see for propane welding torches. Not a bargain but it is the "OXYGENATOR" TM. $20 for the stone isnt bad, its by far the most expensive part. Directions say to boil it 10 min Before and After use. PITA, but it works. and Boy does it work! 3 day ferments every time! Im real happy with mine, but O2 is O2 and you can bet Sams club or Home Depot has better prices on refill bottles that buying the "OXYGENATOR" TM. Im not an employee... just a happy homebrewer...! Pete's I'm still collecting a pete's wicked ale recipes, I have 6 so far but only 2 all grain. Ray Daniels outlines a strategy for Petes in his book Designing Great Beers so I guess thats 3. Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 08:23:19 -0500 From: Louis Bonham <lkbonham at phoenix.net> Subject: Misc/AHA/Legal stuff A few comments:====== John Kessel takes Jim Liddil to task for his perceived slam of other NHC winners. Methinks Mr. Kessel is unaware of the fact that Jim Liddil also won BoS at the NHC a couple of years ago with, surprise, a plambic. And he had to put up with a bunch of comments such as the one he made in obvious jest. ====== David Houseman reports, in general terms, about how the new Board of Advisors and the "new" AHA staff are really going to do things differently. I wish Mr. Houseman all the luck in this endeavor, but forgive me if I'm a bit skeptical at this point. The reason, quite simply, if that even if the AHA staff is all new, they still don't any of the major shots. Even Jim Parker, who's doing a great job of trying to get the ox out of the ditch, won't even discuss certain issues (such as the lack of democracy in the AHA) because, by his own admission, he has no ability to do anything about it. The real issue: is the AHA going to evolve from being CP's captive organization? For example, if the Board of Advisors "advised" that it would be better for the AHA to focus on the domestic situation, become less revenue-driven, and dump the Cult of Charlie Worship, what would happen? Would Charlie and Cathy accede to this advice, or would we see a repeat of the BJCP fiasco? Is real change in the air? I hope so. However, given Charlie's nonattendance at the Board of Advisors' meetings in Cleveland, and his stated position on complaints (too busy having fun to even be bothered with reading them), I fear that history is repeating itself. ========== Oliver claims that HOTD Brewery in Oregon can, in fact, legally produce a true eisbock (Eve) because "they do not commercially produce Eve . . . . [and] it was for their own personal consumption and their friends/guests." Wrongo. To legally distill a beverage in the US, you *must* have a BATF (and probably a state distillery) permit, period. There is *no* exemption for "personal consumption" -- without the proper permits, they can not produce an eisbock legally any more than I can run a still in my backyard. If they're not selling it, great. But that doesn't make it legal, nor does it remove the potential sanctions (confiscation of equipment, among others) if they get caught. Bottom line: so long as ice distilling is considered distilling by the regulators, YOU CAN'T LEGALLY MAKE EISBOCK IN THE U.S. WITHOUT A PERMIT! Pardon the shouting, but I'd hate to see someone get into major trouble based on an inaccurate statement of the law. Louis K. Bonham lkbonham at phoenix.net Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 09:19:03 -0400 (EDT) From: Joe Rolfe <onbc at shore.net> Subject: Re: MINI KEGS i had tried them one several different batches, i never got a batch out of them that i really liked. i could always (blind taste - too!) detect a tinny/metal note in kegs that were stored for over a normal referement in the keg time frame (about 2 wks). if the keg were filled with precarbed beer, and drunk quickly (within a week) i had trouble picking the tinny/metal flavor out... most of them came from europe, and were to be made at one time here in the states. they were fairly expensive - even in container lots...no deals here... the ones we had were a pain to wash, you have to be careful with the strength and chemistry of the cleaning solution , and the had an internal seam that i could not trust. the bungs were somewhat trouble to extract, replace these every so often. commercially it is a good package, alot better than those damn clear growlers. and a bunch of breweries reuse them wth some resonable success. joe Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 08:19:18 -0500 From: "Jennings, James" <James.Jennings at COMPAQ.com> Subject: Yeasty taste with liquid yeast Greetings HB Collective! Forgive me if I'm reviving a long dead thread but has anyone ever noticed a yeasty taste in their final product when using liquid yeast? When I have used dried yeast, I've never had this problem (and, "No", I'm not shaking the bottle before drinking and "Yes", I'm using two stage fermentation and proper de-contamination techniques.). I normally kick back and just absorb but, after a ruined batch by my buddy and myself (well, not ruined-we still drank both of them), I just need to know what I'm doing wrong. Thanks! James Jennings Systems Engineer Compaq Computer Corporation Email: James.Jennings at compaq.com Phone: 281-514-8968 Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 09:35:30 -0400 From: oliver at triton.cms.udel.edu (Oliver Weatherbee) Subject: Re: Hombrew on CNN Alan Talman in HBD #2471 talked about the CNN piece on homebrew. For anyone interested, a text version of this story can be found on the CNN website at http://cnn.com/CNN/Programs/americanedge/program/brew/ . One thing not to good for the AHA/Papazian is a description of him being carried into the convention in a casket from which he is screaming "Party!". ________________________________________________________ Oliver Weatherbee oliver at triton.cms.udel.edu First State Brewers http://triton.cms.udel.edu/~oliver/firststate/ ________________________________________________________ Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 20:49:01 -0500 From: Glyn Crossno <Crossno at novell2.tn.cubic.com> Subject: Re: lawnmower beer "I have trouble understanding the concept. People seem to mean a light, wimpy flavored beer - possible with the mistaken concept that this is refreshing. Am I understanding this correctly? " I can't resist. If I ?wanted? a wimpy beer I *might* try an american lager. I want flavor, but not a high FG. Lawnmower beer to me is a beer I can drink all day long, I have a big yard/field. And then carry some more down to the lake and drink while I cool/wash off. Here in my part of TN with the hot dry weather I'm picking my batch of hops! Glyn Crossno Estill Springs, TN Crossno at novell2.tn.cubic.com - -- Have you hugged your bines today? Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 09:48:10 -0400 From: Mark Arneson <marnes at hom.net> Subject: Mash efficiency Hi all, I can't seem to find a formula for calculating my mash efficiency. I think they're comming out a little low (and I think I know why) but I'd like to know what to expect. Thanx in advance! Mark marnes at bigfoot.com Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 14:17:03 GMT From: mra at skyfry.com (Matthew Arnold) Subject: Delaware brewing >Just today the Delaware Attorney General's office reversed the July 10, >1997 Alcoholic Beverage Control Commission's stated ban on homebrewing >in the First State! They still have to look at competitions and >transport, but we are on our way to having these approved by the >legislature (General Assembly) in January! And no worries over raids and >seizure of brewing equipment! Thank you AG!!!! Welcome back indeed! It's good to see that (at last) there is a bit of sanity amongst the powers that be! Now everybody can get back to brewing and fretting over botulism. Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 10:27:18 -0400 (EDT) From: Barry Finley <bfinley at arches.uga.edu> Subject: Two Dogs Lemon Brew/Lawnmower brew Sorry to be bringing this up again, 'cause I know that all of this was discussed a few weeks ago but my hard drive crashed over the weekend. I was planning on brewing a lemon brew similar to Two Dogs, but all of the information that I had has gone to the big hard drive in the sky. If anyone has any interesting information or recepies, could you please send them to me. Also, I briefly remember that one recepie called for several different types of lemons. What were they and how can I get them? Are they expensive? Thanks in advance for any help you can give. On another note, I have been observing the lawnmower beer posts for a few years. Happens every summer. It has been suggested that a heavily hopped ale works good. Sounds good to me to, but to tell you the truth, Working outside during a Georgia Summer for a few hours has a tendency to cause one to become so thirsty that only pure water will get the job done. Anyone that visited Atlanta during the Olympics will understand what I'm talking about. I quench my thirst with water, I quench my taste buds with home brew! Everone have a wonderful summer and drink plenty of water if you live in a humid area. Dehydration can lead to a great many problems, some of them very serious. Heat exhaustion and heat stroke can be life threatning events. Stay healty and brew on. ************************* Barry C. Finley College of Education The University of Georgia ************************* Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 10:32:37 -0400 (EDT) From: Rae Christopher J <3cjr7 at qlink.queensu.ca> Subject: dry ice in fermenter/yeast cake problem? i'm still brewing a lovely barley wine. it has been in the secondary for about two weeks, and still bubbles at about 1 or 2 blurps per min. this is fine, it is what i expected. so the question is this: since i'll be leaving it in the fermenter for another two or more weeks, should i transfer it to a second glass carbouy? i refer to my three books on brewing, and it looks like this would be a good idea, as the yeast starts to break down after a couple of weeks of sitting at the bottom. i'm using wyeast 1728, scottish ale, with an og of 1.110, currently 1.035. should i transfer it? on that note, i've been thinking for some time about transferring beer in general. idealy, when going from the primary to the secondary, i shouldn't oxidize the beer. not having the money to get a co2 injector, i thought...what if i just dropped a handful of dry ice (frozen co2) into the secondary. as it sublimated, it would form a layer of co2 at the bottom, where the beer goes. as it filled with beer, the layer of co2 would rise. the beer would not get oxidized. the problems i expect include: sudden temp change shocking yeast. sudden temp change breaking glass carbout. has anyone any experience in this? if you reply personally, i'll summarize and post. BTW, i'll be posting the full story (and boy, was it wacky) of the barley wine when i bottle. ___________________________________________________________ This is Chris' signature: C____ R__ &% His home page is at http://qlink.queensu.ca/~3cjr7/ Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 10:39:20 -0400 From: Rory Stenerson <71762.1664 at compuserve.com> Subject: RE: Thoughts wanted on 1.5 litre mini kegs Lady Godiva wrote: = "Has anyone had experience with the 'mini kegs'? I am interested in buyi= ng 4 of them, but want to hear from someone who has used them." Yes, you'll get plenty of fiz in the 5litre mini kegs so back off on your= priming sugar or DME. Suggest 3/4 dry cup for priming. There is a relatively larger volume of beer to head space in the container. We real= ly like the mini kegs because they're so space efficient and they're great t= o take to parties, (like bringing a six pack.) Wish you joy of your homebrewing, Rory Stenerson, V.P. - State College Underground Maltsters, S.C.U.M. State College, PA USA 71762.1664 at compuserve.com Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 11:06:09 -0400 (EDT) From: KennyEddy at aol.com Subject: HomeMade Crystal Malt -- Questions I made some crystal malt this weekend, and ended up with my best-tasting batch yet. But I have a few questions that maybe you could help me with. First, let me outline the process I used so that the questions make more sense: 1. Soak pale-ale malt overnight in water. Keep refrigerated to prevent spoilage. Grain absorbed about 1/2 quart water per pound, so use 3/4 to 1 quart of water per pound of grain. 2. Drain malt well in a strainer, then place in covered casserole dish. Place in pre-heated 150F oven. 3. Allow to hold at 150F for two hours. 4. Remove grain from casserole dish. Spread on cookie sheet and place back in oven, uncovered. Raise heat to 250F. 5. Turn grain occasionally. Monitor color & flavor by removing a few grains, *allowing to cool*, and tasting. Should be crunchy. Remove when desired color is achieved. Comments on each step: Step 1) The grain smelled and tasted a bit funky coming out of the fridge, but not really enough to cause concern. Could just be normal for wet malt. The final product came out fine but perhaps limiting the soak time to only a few hours would be better. The soaking water was clear when drained off (except for some chaff) so I don't think much starch was carried out of the husks. The sweetness of the final product backs up this conjecture. Steps 2 & 3) The malt, having been in the refrigerator, was "cold" when I placed it in the casserole dish. Also, the wet malt was probably 3 to 4 inches deep in the dish. So, it took FOREVER to warm up to 150F. I'd guess it took at least two hours to warm up (I checked periodically but didn't really note the time), and then another couple hours to "mash". Two things could be done differently here. Either add boiling water to the strained cold malt (about 1 quart per pound; steep a couple minutes to level off the temperature, then drain), to heat it to near 150F before putting in the casserole dish, or (probably better) spread very thin on a large cookie sheet or two to allow the heat to reach all the grain more quickly. In either case, keep it covered to retain moisture during "mashing". I used a casserole dish for easier handling but any covered arrangement should work. Step 5) I found that the malt is chewy and sticky while hot but gets dry & crunchy quickly as it cools, so be sure to sample the malt after it sits on the counter for a few minutes, NOT right out of the oven. Apparently the sugars are pretty much "melted" at 250F but set up hard when cooled. I let the malt stay in the oven a long time until I figured this out, thinking the malt was still "wet". Start to finish, I bet the stuff was in the oven nine hours! I weighed the grain before soaking, after soaking, and after cooking. I started with 19 ounces of pale malt, which turned into 36 ounces of wet malt, which turned into 18 ounces of crystal malt. ***** The resulting product was delicious! I compared it with some store-bought crystal and thought it blew it away, at least just on a flavor basis. Probably would be great with milk in a cereal bowl. The commercial stuff was not very sweet and actually tasted kinda crappy alongside the home-made stuff; mine was quite caramelly. But that rasied a couple of questions. 1) If my malt is noticibly sweeter than commercial crystal, does that mean it contains more simple sugars, and therefore would be highly fermentable? The slow temperature rise presumably allowed beta amylase to clean out the starch reserves long before alpha had much of a chance. However, the sugars seemed to be quite caramelized (based on the taste); does this affect fermentability? 2) I guess it's *possible* that the crystal I've been buying is just plain no good -- poor quality or old. The store I get it from stores the malt (Hugh Baird if I'm not mistaken) in sealed buckets, and I think their turnover is pretty good, but who knows. Is good-quality commercial crystal supposed to be this sweet? Or did I make a sugary roasted malt, but not crystal? 3) Would a higher "mash" temperature -- say 160F -- be better in this regard? Should I expect less perceived sweetness if I can get to 160F quickly (avoiding a lot of beta-amylase activity)? I plan to "make" some chocolate / black malt soon; my next brew will be a porter made with these homemade specailty grains (just for fun). Homegrown hops would be the ultimate final touch! I would definitely not hesitate to brew with this stuff, though whether the result would be the same as breewing with "real" crystal is a question. However, if the consensus seems to be that the sugars in the crystal malt I made are going to ferment completely out, I might try making another batch of crystal with some of the changes outlined above. Thanks in advance for any comments. ***** Ken Schwartz El Paso, TX KennyEddy at aol.com http://members.aol.com/kennyeddy Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 09:10:44 -0700 From: Matt Gadow <mgadow at ix.netcom.com> Subject: RE: Blue Moon / Results of my accidental full decoction Chiming in on the Belgian Wit beer thread, I also promised to post results of an accidental decoction of my witbeer (forgot to turn off the cooker when it hit 154deg!) from a couple of weeks ago. The witbeer finished nicely, and did not darken substantially above style. Preliminary tastings while at Lake Powell (after one week in the corny) were a bit astringent, but ice was at a premium, and the beer was left a little warm. Upon return, and some cold conditioning (45deg) for an additional 10 days, the beer has cleaned up nicely! For the record (and the thread), I didn't end up adding any lactic acid at kegging, since I sparged with lactic-acidified water, and the sourness seemed about right at kegging time. In fact a comparative tasting last night at a party resulted in some comments that mine was "better than" the blue moon that was being served at the party. Better consisted of "fresher taste", and "more pronounced spiciness" (bitter orange and coriander). In addition to the additional conditioning time, I think that this style benefits from a little bit colder serving temp than my usual ~50 pale ale serving temp. Where do we find those dual chamber, twin thermostat refrigerators again? Wow! My beer, better than a Coors micro! Now that's some praise. Not to jump on Kit's case or anything, but I would also (politely) suggest that Celis or Hoegarden would be a much better target than Blue Moon, although of all of the big boy micros, at least this one wasn't called "Blue Dog", and it actually tastes somehat like the style it represents. I was at a ski resort last winter, and they were serving Blue Moon (p)wit ON TAP! Better than Bud, Bud Light, or 50/50! Matt Gadow mgadow at ix.nospnetcom.com "if you're not livin on the edge, You're takin up too much space" Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 09:27:07 -0600 From: Paul R Buettner <paulr at dzn.com> Subject: A big thanks--Was new kegger needs help Greetings All: I want to thank all those who supplied me with such help on my new keg system. I was covered up with e-mail. Opinions differed but the forced method won out 3 to 1. I used a old kit I had, Morgans Iron Bark Dark, two lbs. light malt powder, dry yeast ( I did rehydrate) and no hops. I when with this because I expected to toss out the first batch, well we about sucked the stainless of the inside of the keg. I had broken the first rule of homebrewing, I worried. I now have 5 cases of 22oz. bottles in the way. Again thanks to all who offered help. Paul Paul R. Buettner paulr at dzn.com El Paso Texas Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 10:34:09 -0700 From: RANDY ERICKSON <RANDYE at mid.org> Subject: Lambic/AHA Commitments John Kessel takes exception to Jim's comment: "And who would have thought another plambic would win hboy? I guess everything else was not very good." and then goes on to defend the style. John, when you selectively edited Jim's post, you left off a very important part, I quote: ":-)" That's a sideways smiley face. On the 'net that means, "I just made a joke, you may laugh if you wish." Jim is a bit of a lambic fanatic -- I'm positive he's just as thrilled about a lambic brewer winning HBOY as the rest of us are. And I'm sure he meant no offense to the other winners at the Nationals. ------------------------------ In a related post, David Houseman writes: Jim asks: Ok so I have a question for all those who went to the AHA conference. Particularly for the AHA "Advisors". Has the AHA presented a plan for actual change? Are they going to address the various concerns raised here and on rcb? Or will they continue to only provide lip service? Sez David: "I don't have the time to make a complete report at this time but will provide some insight from my point of view. First of all, we discussed only briefly any past problems. These were, in the collective view, problems brought about by the past AHA staff, which has entirely changed. So trying to rehash past sins would not be very useful." I appreciate David's comments, but I am having a hard time accepting his viewpoint. I would sure like some additional information. I was under the impression that it was the management of the AHA who were behind the efforts to drop the BJCP in favor of an AHA-controlled judging program that would be "fun" rather than education-based, not the staff. If the bad old staff were responsible, does that mean that this project will be scrapped now? Also the AHA has decided to form a new retailers' trade association to compete with the HWBTA and presumably make a couple of bucks in the bargain. Was this a plan from the good staff or the bad staff? It seems a little unfair and a little unbelievable to blame all of the AHA's problems, many of which are perceived as profit motivated, on now-absent indians with no responsibility being taken by the chiefs. Jim asked two specific questions, both of which seem deserving of an answer: "Has the AHA presented a plan for actual change? Are they going to address the various concerns raised here and on rcb?" I have seen quite an increase in the use of the words "new" and "better", but I have not seen a lot of hard facts. Can David or anyone else shed a little light? David also says "Of course results are what counts but I can assure you that the new BOA (some 12+) are committed to working with the AHA to make significant changes." I agree, it's the results that matter. Can anyone describe how the BOA will work with the AHA, especially with respect to disagreements? I am involved with an advisory panel working with a State agency, and it can be pretty toothless at times. Thanks -- Randy Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 13:05:15 EDT From: aehoward at juno.com (Andrew E Howard) Subject: Re: Formula for calculating %-alcohol needed I understand that this is correct: Alcohol by weight = [76.08(OG-FG)] / [1.775-OG] Alcohol by volume = abw x [FG/0.794] Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 13:05:57 -0400 From: "Richard Cuff" <rdcuff at worldnet.att.net> Subject: Homebrewing on TV In HBD #2471, Alan Talman wrote about the mention of homebrewing on CNN. Homebrewing also was featured last night (Sunday, 27 July) on HGTV - that's "Home & Garden Television", a cable channel - in their program "What's Your Hobby?" This program has people talking about their hobbies; according to a friend, the segment on homebrew walked through the basic brewing method. I suspect the program on homebrewing will be rebroadcast at some point, but HGTV's web site (http://www.hgtv.com) was acting up this morning when I tried to pull up schedule details. Richard Cuff Lutherville, MD Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 10:42:42 -0700 From: Scott Murman <smurman at best.com> Subject: Re: Victorian traditions; a "pipe" The discussion of the origins of the word pipe reminded me that I had a project I'd been meaning to get to. We were discussing the origins of some of the strange brewing terms on IRC one evening, and so I started looking them up on webster. I collected them to an HTML page, and I was hoping to expand it. Perhaps the collective can help by suggesting other terms of interest or providing more information. The link is on my web page http://www.best.com/~smurman/zymurgy. I'll add pipe and hogshead to the page. BTW, for any others of you who enjoy words and their meaning or origins, there is a great email server called A Word A Day. Info on it is available at http://www.wordsmith.org/awad/index.html. SM Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 14:42:05 -0400 From: "BRIAN F. THUMM" <THUMMBF at GWSMTP.NU.COM> Subject: Chile Beer If you have enough chilies, you can make your chile beer a la Cave Creek Chile Beer - with an individual chile in each bottle. Cave Creek Chile Beer has a noticeable chile flvor, and they don't do anything special to the chile. They don't split it open or anything. It is added to the bottle, and it steeps for weeks in the bottle. Great with Mexican food.... Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 15:16:47 -0400 From: Gordon & Cindy Camp <revcamp at epix.net> Subject: Rubber Gasket update Thanks to all who put their $.02 in on this issue. To let you know the most suggested suggestion was to rebottle and cork, followed by sealing wax. Well I've rebottled most of the mead and am experimenting with several waxed bottles. I'll let you know the results in 21 years. Actually when Graeme turns 16 and he goes on my car insurance I'll probably open em and drown my pain. Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 97 15:09:24 EST5 From: NAZELROD at UUE.vitro.com Subject: Re: Contest Entry Dennis & Jennifer Britten <djbnajke at iserv.net> Wrote: >I have a question to all the seasoned contest winners. We just >recently >got the results to a contest that we entered by checking >http://www.ghgcorp.com/rlivingston/rendezbrew.html. I found it a >little >stange that almost every winner was from the club that sponsered the >contest?? We are not being "poor losers" I just would like to know >if >anybody has a way to weed out the not so fair contests and enter the >good ones. Any suggestions or thoughts about results like to ones >posted on the Lunar Rendezbrew page would be appreciated. I am not a seasoned contest winner, but I will respond anyway. During my many years of lurking on the HBD, I have casually looked at the results of many contests. I do not find these results unusual. I think "almost every winner was from the club that sponsored the contest" is a bit of an overstatement. Here is a tally of the results: Bay Area Mashtronauts - 28 winners Foam Rangers - 14 winners Brew Bayou - 8 winners Kuykendahl Gran Brewers - 2 winners Brewed 66 Wort Hogs - 2 winners Winston-Salem Wort Hawgs - 1 winner Unaffiliated - 8 winners Total 63 There were probably more entries from the sponsoring club than from other clubs and individuals. Also entries that are not local are at a disadvantage. During shipping they are exposed to high temperatures and rough handling. There are just two reasons why the sponsoring club would have more winners. Now, as for suggestions, join a local club. You can get opinions and feedback about the beer you make from the more experienced members of the club. Good Luck Gary Nazelrod Return to table of contents
Date: 28 Jul 1997 12:22:53 -0700 From: Dion Hollenbeck <hollen at vigra.com> Subject: Re: Contest Entry >> Dennis Britten writes: Dennis> I have a question to all the seasoned contest winners. We Dennis> just recently got the results to a contest that we entered by Dennis> checking http://www.ghgcorp.com/rlivingston/rendezbrew.html. I Dennis> found it a little stange that almost every winner was from the Dennis> club that sponsered the contest?? We are not being "poor Dennis> losers" I just would like to know if anybody has a way to weed Dennis> out the not so fair contests and enter the good ones. Any Dennis> suggestions or thoughts about results like to ones posted on Dennis> the Lunar Rendezbrew page would be appreciated. I am not familiar with this contest, but I would be very reluctant to question their integrity. I would also go so far as to say that there are no " not so fair contests". I have never heard of the integrity of any competition being questioned, yes, some individual judgings by an individual judge may have been piss poor and/or way off the mark, but organizers go to great lengths to keep contests fair and objective. What you see as many winners from the sponsoring club probably came about because of the following. For a club or association of clubs to put on a competition, they have to be quite serious. It is a major undertaking, and requires lots of dedication and expertise to do it right. When a club gets to the point where they can field a compeition, they most likely have many really good brewers. And those brewers, it being their own event, will want to outdo themselves getting entries ready and will most likely enter lots of categories. Good brewers entering lots of categories are most likely to take lots of ribbons. In our annual competition, at least 1/4 of our 2-300 entries are usually from our club. We have many excellent brewers. We conduct our competition with the utmost scrupulous care to ensure entry anonymity and fair judging. Out of about 80 ribbons awarded, we almost always manage to take at least 20 of them. I would like to hear from other people who have participated in competitions if they have ever heard about the integrity of the results being in question. If this phenomena exists, the "competition community" and the judging community need to be made aware of it. Check out with the club and see how many entries were from their club vs. others. The turnout of other entries may have just be really poor, thereby giving those who DID enter an advantage, even with complete impartiality in effect. dion QUAFF President Organizer America's Finest City Homebrew Competition March 8, 1997 Quality Ale and Fermentation Fraternity, Sponsor http://www.vigra.com/~hollen/AFCHBC.html - --- Dion Hollenbeck (619)597-7080x164 Email: hollen at vigra.com http://www.vigra.com/~hollen Sr. Software Engineer - Vigra Div. of Visicom Labs San Diego, California Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 13:24:02 -0400 From: "Alan McKay" <Alan.McKay.amckay at nt.com> Subject: Botulism facts and figures Yes, I know that many of you are getting sick of this dead horse we keep flogging, but given the rude and nasty nature of a recent post of mine, I feel compelled to respond to Simon A Wesley's post which contains data on Botulism. I'm impressed that someone was able to come up with this data so quickly. I guess the WWW and the Internet is a mixed blessing in that. The danger is, of course, that it makes people look like experts who really don't know what they are talking about (apply that to me, if you like). The flip side is that if you want to do some digging, the data is out there. Somewhere. With that in mind, I must say it's good to see some figures put on these things, to allow us to put it into perspective. That's sort of what I was trying to do before, although it seems that I was armed with some mis-information (see below). I guess my mis-information wasn't really much better than the no-information that many people seemed to be propagating. So much for believing everything you read -- even in a book as good as the one I was using. This would seem to me to be one of those circumstances where I'm forced to re-examine my beliefs. Fortunately, unlike some people (and I'm not implying anyone here at all -- I'm just saying this completely in general terms), I'm usually eager to discover errs in my beliefs, and just as eager to replace them with something a little more factual. It looks as though my food-processing bible may have been over-exaggerating the risk of Botulism, based on the numbers dug up by Mr Wesley. It also appears as though they've misrepresented the facts of the early 70's "outbreak". In any case, I still take it as fact that pressure-canning will reduce the risk. I don't think that can really be argued. Of course, since the risk already appears to be so low, I guess we each have to make up our own minds as to whether or not it's worth the extra trouble. One thing I'd like to see is whether or not there is an inordinate percentage of those cases who'd consumed home-canned foods. Perhaps Mr Wesley can point us to the URL where he dug up the data so that we can all have a peek. Personally, I'll likely continue to pressure-can my wort. However, I might not be quite so vocal when someone claims that boiling-water canning is just fine. Once again, I apologize to all of you fine folks. I've just had one of my fairly deep-rooted beliefs shattered, and I'm the first to admit it. That's all for now. cheers, -Alan McKay Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 14:48:22 -0700 From: Joe Stone <joestone at cisco.com> Subject: Cylindriconical Fermenter I called in a few favors in order to have a 60 degree cone welded onto a 10 G Cornelius keg. A 1" SS male pipe thread fitting was welded to the end of the cone. I opted for a 1" male pipe thread fitting in conjunction with a brass ball valve in order to keep the total cost of the project under $60. Now I have a very attractive (electro-polished) 11 G cylindriconical fermenter and I realize that I'm not exactly sure what to do with it. I'm hoping that someone with a similar fermenter is willing to share his/her fermentation process. I probably won't be able to fill the fermenter directly from my counter-flow chiller due to the height of the fermenter. I will probably have to chill into a 6.5 G glass carboy and rack into the cylindriconical fermenter. Or invest in another pump. Fill via the bottom drain? Blow-off is not a consideration. I normally brew 5 G batches. The liquid-out dip tube is still its original length (it reaches to about where the cylinder meets the cone). I have considered using a longer dip tube which would reach closer to the bottom of the cone and use CO2 pressure to rack. I worry about the amount of trub that will be racked into the keg in using the cylindriconical fermenter as a secondary (even after purging the trub using the bottom drain). I don't filter my beer. Please CC my E-mail with your response. Thanks. Joe Return to table of contents
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