---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com


Contents:
  CO2 _is_ bitter (Some Guy)
  [Joke: Stout Fellow] ("Chris A. Smith")
  How to make an all-grain Chili Brew?!? ("Mark Rose")
  Formula for calculating %-alcohol needed ("Thilo")
  iodophor longevity, lawnmower beer (Tumarkin)
  Re: Canned Wort, Malta and Botulism (Jeff Renner)
  lambic (prkessel)
  Re: Keg Mobility ("Ted Major")
  Judging ("Randy J. Lee")
  Victorian traditions; a "pipe" (Paul Mahoney)
  Re: Brewing Blue Moon? (Graham Barron)
  AHA Commitments ("Houseman, David L")
  HOTD Eve (Oliver Weatherbee)
  Oxygen in Kegs (LaBorde, Ronald)
  Homegrown / Homedried hops (Miguel de Salas)
  Delaware AG reverses Homebrew Ban!!!!!!!!!!! (Mark Warrington)
  RE: Legal? ("Michael E. Dingas")
  Plating out yeast (Douglas Flagg)
  Priming question (Steve)
  Botulism Data ("Simon A. Wesley")
  Yeast Ranching 101 (nkanous)
  Thoughts wanted on 1.5 litre mini kegs ("LadyGodiva")
  homebrew on CNN (AlannnnT)
  shelf life of root beer extract (kathy)
  Contest Entry (Dennis & Jennifer Britten)
  Brewing water pH strangeness (Jim Wallace)


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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 17:40:56 -0400 (EDT)
From: Some Guy <pbabcock at oeonline.com>
Subject: CO2 _is_ bitter

Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your lager...

Dave Burley sez...
"Nope.  CO2 is sour, as it is an acid when dissolved in water or beer. 
Acids are sour and bases are bitter."

Um, I beg to differ, Dave! Carbonate some water and drink it. Perhaps it 
is an effect of the nucleation of CO2 bubbles on the bumps and valleys of 
the ol' wagging tongue, but I perceive CO2 dissolved in water (carbonic 
acid to you chemically inclined) to the point of supersaturation (like 
our beer) to be bitter, too...

(Yeah, I know, but I am forced to READ the Digest before anyone else - by 
the moderation function - so forgive me if I reply to it now and again...)

See ya!

Pat Babcock in SE Michigan                pbabcock at oeonline.com
Home Brew Digest Janitor                  janitor@hbd.org
AOL Home Brewing "Maven"                  brewbeerd at aol.com
Ford Manufacturing Engineer               pbabcock.ford at e-mail.com 




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Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 08:48:28 +1300
From: "Chris A. Smith" <casmith at metro.telecom.samsung.co.kr>
Subject: [Joke: Stout Fellow]

Brenda O'Malley is home as usual, making dinner, when Tim
Finnegan arrives at her door.

"Brenda, may I come in?" he asks.  "I've
somethin' to tell ya."

"Of course you can come in, you're always welcome, Tim. But
where's my husband?"

"That's what I'm here to be tellin' ya, Brenda. There was an
accident down at the Guinness brewery..."

"Oh, God no!" cries Brenda.  "Please don't tell me..."

"I must, Brenda.  Your husband Mick is dead and gone.  I'm
sorry."

Brenda reached a hand out to her side, found the arm of the
rocking chair by the fireplace, pulled the chair to her and collapsed
into it. She wept for many minutes.  Finally she looked up at Tim. "How
did it happen, Tim?"

"It was terrible, Brenda.  He fell into a vat of Guinness Stout
and drowned."

"Oh my dear Jesus!  But you must tell me true, Tim.  Did he at
least go quickly?"

"Well, no Brenda ... no."

"No?"

"Fact is, he got out three times to pee."


- -- 


Chris A. Smith
Switching Systems Group
Samsung Electronics Co., Ltd.
Seoul, Korea

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Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 19:54:54 -0400
From: "Mark Rose" <mrose at visi.net>
Subject: How to make an all-grain Chili Brew?!?

 I am planning on brewing a Jalepeneo spiced pale ale on Monday.  I have a
huge jar of chopped Jalepeneos in the fridge, but have no idea how much to
add or when, or how.  I would like it to be spicy, but drinkable for most.

I am guessing the best way would be to add them to the secondary, about 3.0
oz worth.  What do you all think??

The Cats Meow mentioned some brews, but most of them had weird results
(either infections or mold growing in the secondary).  Is this the norm?
Can the peppers be sanitized without ruining their flavor?

Mark Rose
Hampton, VA



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Date:          Fri, 25 Jul 1997 09:34:48 CAT
From: "Thilo" <THILO at vaccino.ovi.ac.za>
Subject:       Formula for calculating %-alcohol needed

Hi,
I need a formula that I can use in a program to calculate potential 
alcohol or estimated alcohol from FG and OG values.

Thanks.
Thilo at vaccino.ovi.ac.za

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Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 07:12:11 -0400
From: Tumarkin at ix.netcom.com
Subject: iodophor longevity, lawnmower beer

Hi, homebrewers;

Mark Snyder writes:

>Help!  I've recently gotten on a brewing binge and have three batches
>currently in the fermenters.Two in the secondary and one in theprimary.
>I'll be bottling these beers over three successive weekends and was
>wondering whether I could prepare my iodophor solution for my bottles, 
>etc.and use it over the two week period without losing sanitization
>effectiveness.  I plan to cover the container to prevent
>oxidation/evaporation although I don't know if this is even a factor.

Iodophor is an iodine based sanitizer. My experience has been that it is
quite stable and long lasting if you keep the container sealed. I
usually keep my bottling bucket full of solution between uses. It does
tend to stain the plastic but otherwise I've seen no problems. Iodophor
generally comes in a concentrated form with instructions to dilute it to
around 12.5 ppm. I have been told that as long as the solution appears
brown colored it is still strong enough to be effective. You can always
add a little more if it appears to be getting too light. I don't think
using too much is a problem (within limits!). Just be sure to let it
fully air dry before using. I haven't had a problem with iodine taste
but some posters seem to think this is at least a potential concern. 

With the traffic on the Digest being at it's usual low summer level, I'm
going to waste a little bandwidth on a summer topic. From time to time I
have seen posts that make reference to lawnmower beer. I have trouble
understanding the concept. People seem to mean a light, wimpy flavored
beer - possible with the mistaken concept that this is refreshing. Am I
understanding this correctly?  

Here in south Florida, summer brings a combination of heat and humidity
that can be staggering. In our sub-tropical  climate the grass grows   
like a jungle. You pretty much have to mow it every week, certainly at
least every other week, or you risk losing your house. When I'm done
mowing my yard, I am hot and sweaty and in need of serious refreshment.
I need a majorly hopped pale ale (maybe that's why they shipped that
stuff to the colonial soldiers in the first place)or even a stout to cut
my thirst and restore my depleted energy - remember, stout's not just
for breakfast anymore. That's my idea of a lawnmower beer. If I want
something light I might go for a tasty wheat, but please don't offer me
a wimpy thin lawnmower beer, but then again YMMV. 

Hoppy summer brewing, 

Mark Tumarkin
The Brewery in the Jungle

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Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 07:40:42 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu>
Subject: Re: Canned Wort, Malta and Botulism

>Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 11:35:38 -0500
>From: "Alan McKay" <Alan.McKay.amckay at nt.com>
>Subject: Canned Wort, Malta and Botulism
>
>
>Just when we're finally making some progress convincing people that
>there is a
>danger of botulism when using improperly canned starters, we get some
>yahoo
>who doesn't have a clue what he's talking about (yet tries to make it
>sound like he
>does) who comes out and makes comments like the below :

Alan

I think I have made enough serious contributions to HBD over the years to
rate more than this belittling putdown, and I resent it.

The point I was making is that I do not see the difference between canned
wort (212F for tens of minutes), and pasteurized malta, which is nothing
but wort and is treated at lower temperatures for shorter times, if it
indeed is only passteurized, not pressure processed, as was reported by our
correspondent in Venezuela.  Presumably (but only presumably) malta is
bottled with modern methods which result in virtually no air being
incorporated ( CO2 blast followed by filling with neck filled with foam
before capping).  Since these two seem to be the same product, I wonder
what the difference is, and why Latin Americans aren't dying of malta
botulism.

I am completely familiar with "Putting Food By" and similar advice, which
does not address wort, so far as I know.  That was my point.  They are very
conservative.

Does anyone know for sure the bottling and processing for malta?  It would
certainly be nice if a brewing microbiologist who works with Clostridium
botulinus (I know we have at least one) would do a controlled experiment
and see what does happen.  Of course, the legal implications any advice
would be daunting, which is why we continue to

Now that I've continued this discussion, I'm leaving for a week vacation,
so I'll have to follow it later.

Jeff

 -=-=-=-=-
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan c/o nerenner at umich.edu
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943. 



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Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 07:09:58 -0700
From: prkessel at waonline.com
Subject: lambic

From: John Kessel
RE: Lambic

Regarding Homebrewer of the year, Jim Liddil writes, "And who would have 
thought another plambic would win hboy?  I guess everything else was not 
very good."  I take offense to Jim's assumption that Charlie's beer was 
not great, but that the other beers were bad.  All you people who won 
medals at nationals this year have just been insulted, I think.  First of 
all, a lambic is as good or better than any other style of beer.  I hope 
homebrewers are not worried about sour beer face like beer novices are 
worried about bitter beer face.  Second, I had the good luck to judge BOS 
this year at the Bluebonnet Competition in Dallas.  This same beer won 
best of show, hands down.  As good as everything else was, this beer not 
only nailed the style but it had flair and beauty.  Clearly we were not 
wrong, because it did the same thing at nationals.  I tire of brewers 
wanting a classic pilsner to win BOS.  Why does it matter what style the 
beer is in, if it is the best beer on the table?  Don't insult the other 
brewers who won at nationals by saying that their beers are not very 
good.  Instead, enjoy that someone brewed a lambic that was better than 
all the other great beers (of any style) at this years nationals.

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Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 08:49:15 -0400
From: "Ted Major"<tmajor at exrhub.exr.com>
Subject: Re: Keg Mobility





Mark Thomson <mthomson at mail.xula.edu> asks about lightweight means
to keep a 5-gallon keg cold.
The neighborhood beer store here in Athens sells a "keg kooler," which is
basically
mylar coated bubble-wrap sized to fit a Sankey keg.  It's advertised to
keep a keg
cold for 8 hours without ice.  I can't vouch for that, but it did keep the
corny keg
of cream ale cold all the way to the beach and over four days on only a few
 bags of ice.
They sell for about $4 here, so it seems like a pretty affordable,
lightweight insulation.


Ted Major



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Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 08:04:17 -0500
From: "Randy J. Lee"<rjlee at imation.com>
Subject: Judging





I need Advice and Guidance. I would like details and nuances of what it
takes to host a homebrew competition. Gory details welcome.

TIA

Randy Lee
rjlee at imation.com

Von a dem skvareheads from Visconsin.



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Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 09:33:45 -0700
From: Paul Mahoney <pmahoney at www.co.roanoke.va.us>
Subject: Victorian traditions; a "pipe"

Loius Bonham wrote in the July 25 edition of HBD:

  "Victorian tradition was tolay down
not a case of port for a lad's 21st BD, but a "pipe"
of port.  I forget the precise number of bottles in a "pipe",
but I believe it was something like 50 cases (600 bottles) or
more."

	My Webster's New Collegiate Dictionary includes the following 
defition of "pipe": various units of liquid capacity based on the size of 
pipe; esp. a unit equal to two hogsheads.
A "hogshead" is defined as : a large cask or barrel, one containing from 
63 to 140 gallons; a US unit equal to 63 gallons.
	This is a LOT of liquid!  How is it that we lost all of our 
Victorian traditions?  Why didn't my father do this for me?  Probably 
because we were Irish, not British!

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Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 12:06:49 -0500
From: Graham Barron <gbarron at cq.com>
Subject: Re: Brewing Blue Moon?

Kit Lemmonds wrote in HOMEBREW Digest #2470:

>Hey guys and gals,
>
>I've been trying to brew a close facsimile to Blue Moon Belgian White for
>the last few months with some success.  The only thing I'm missing in my
>batches is the tang or tartness abundant in Blue Moon.  Does anyone have any
>ideas about how Blue Moon gets this tartness?  I've even considered adding a
>little vitamin C to the secondary fermenter since it is water soluble, but I
>want to hold off before I try anything too crazy.
>
>Any pointers or suggestions are greatly appreciated.


I certainly don't want to be critical of other's beer preferences.  I mean,
as a constitutional right, people have the right to like certain beers.
But it is beyond me why, with all of the absolutely fabulous white beers
out there, anyone would want to replicate the Blue Moon version.  I don't
know if this has been discussed previously on the HBD, but I was shocked
and amazed to see that the Blue Moon/Coors interpretation of the Belgian
White style won first place in the category at the World Beer Championships
(or whatever it's called).  The beer is a very pale, weak, bland version of
the style (in my own view, of course).  Celis White, Hoegardden (sp.),
Blanche du Bruges (sp.) they all blow Blue Moon away.  It's kind of scary
that Coors can throw something like that out there and it win all these
awards and beat out truer (not to mention tastier) versions of the style.
Mind you I don't worship at the altar of beer style guidelines or anything,
but Celis and Hoegardden really define White Beer, and Senator, Blue Moon
is not real white.

Anyway, I hope nobody, especially Kit, takes this a personal attack on
anyone's beer choices.  We don't all have to agree and I'm sure some of you
would take exception with my beer choices.  I am curious, though, if anyone
else had the same reaction to the Blue Moon awards.

In the mean time, in brewing a couple of drinkable white beers myself, I've
found that adding a touch of 88% Lactic acid at bottling can add that
tartness to the final product.  I can't remember off the top of my head how
much I used to put in for 5 gal.  I want to say a couple of tablespoons or
something.  Someone else will probably be able to confirm.  Lactic acid
should be available from your homebrew shop expressly for white beers.

Drink well, everyone.




Graham L. Barron
New Media
Congressional Quarterly
Washington, D.C.
(202) 887-8684

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Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 09:03:18 -0400
From: "Houseman, David L" <David.Houseman at unisys.com>
Subject: AHA Commitments

Jim asks:
Ok so I have a question for all those who went to the AHA conference. 
Particularly for the AHA "Advisors".  Has the AHA presented a plan for
acutal change?  Are they going to address the various concerns raised
here and on rcb?  Or will they continue to only provide lip service? 
And who would have thought another plambic would win hboy?  I guess
everything else was not very good. :-)

I don't have the time to make a complete report at this time but will
provide some insight from my point of view.  First of all, we discussed
only briefly any past problems.  These were, in the collective view,
problems brought about by the past AHA staff, which has entirely
changed.  So trying to rehash past sins would not be very useful.

We did spend a great deal of time talking about how the AHA and Zymurgy
can be of more value to brewers.  How to get and retain members.  How to
better work with clubs and with the homebrew suppliers.  How to make the
AHA more meaningful to its members.   A number of ideas have been
brought forward and the AHA's new staff professes a very real desire and
willingness to work with us.  They are very "client" oriented.  Many are
new to the AHA so we may have to account for some learning curve, but I
was satisfied with their commitment.  

Minutes of the Board of Advisors meeting were taken and are to be
distributed to us.  When I recieve a copy, that will help remind me of
some of the specifics of our discussions so that I can provide a more
complete report.  If one of the other BOA members can do that from
memory (I didn't take notes) go right ahead; don't wait on me -- I off
on some business trips.

Of course results are what counts but I can assure you that the new BOA
(some 12+) are committed to working with the AHA to make significant
changes.

Dave Houseman

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Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 12:40:34 -0400
From: oliver at triton.cms.udel.edu (Oliver Weatherbee)
Subject: HOTD Eve


I was surprised that no one else responded to the query of HOTD
Eve beer and by Louis Bonham's little discourse on the permits
required for ice distilling etc.

HOTD does not have a problem and does not need a permit because
they do not commercially produce Eve. In the past they have
done an ice-distilled version of Adam and called it Eve but
it was for their own personal consumption and their friends/guests.
Some has been passed along as gifts and so several people
have had a chance to try it. I myself lucked into a sample
earlier this year, its a great beer.

BTW, Hair of the Dog Brewing Company is out of Portland, Oregon.
They have a webpage at www.hairofthedog.com. The distribution
of their beers seems to have increased as late, I know I can
get them in PA and MD. If you get a chance, Adam (a strong ale)
and Golden Rose (a tripel) are well worth the price. Just talking
about it has convinced me sample some of the Adam I laid down last 
year when I get home tonight.

 - Oliver



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Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 14:16:36 -0500
From: rlabor at lsumc.edu (LaBorde, Ronald)
Subject: Oxygen in Kegs

From: "David R. Burley" 

 ...I force carbonate through the 'out' line to bubble the CO2 up
through the beer and avoid all that rockin' and rollin'  although I do g
          give the keg a shake periodically until the gas no longer
flows in....

Yup - That's what I did a few times, but I noticed that after a short
while, all the gas sounds slowed to a near standstill until I rocked the
keg, then I could hear plenty of gas flowing into the keg again.

I saw a different method used where the keg was layed on it's side, the
gas put into the gas in line, and the keg rocked back and forth with
one's foot for a few minutes.  It is my conclusion that it is NOT
neccessary to flow the gas into the liquid in line.  I think all you are
accomplishing here is wearing out the threads on your fittings.

Since then I have been using this method and will never bother to use
the liquid in line.

Comments????

Happy Brewing

Ron





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Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 10:38:07 +1000
From: Miguel de Salas <mm_de at postoffice.utas.edu.au>
Subject: Homegrown / Homedried hops

Hello all
Since I started the thread asking about possible reasons why my homegrown
and homedried hops have a cooked straw aroma, I think I should clarify a few
things.

First of all I live (and grow my hops) in Tasmania, source of world famous
hops (guinness, carlsberg, heineken apparently import much of the crop, as
well as AB, who, regardless of their finished product (Budweiser), have to
be credited with state of the art techniques, and using only arome hops for
bittering their beer).  Tasmania is free of all hop diseases except aphids
and spider mites. I grow my hops from rootstock obtained from commercial
growers, on a northerly aspect (sunny in the southern hemisphere), and with
a setup of poles and wires very similar to commercial gardens.
After this I doubt that the finished product differs much from the
commercial produce, when fresh, as the handling, climate, sun hours, etc,
are the same. After harvesting, the process to which they are subjected is
different, though.
I dry my hops gently, never exceeding 75 F (It would be hard to exceed that,
it gets soooo cold) whereas commercial growers use carefully monitored
conditions.
I source my hops from my garden, and also have dried at home commercially
grown hops which I picked myself just before the harvesters went past.

Problem is both batches have had this cooked straw/hay aroma. The hops are
dry when I freeze them, and when I use them (I dry them till the strigs are
brittle). I should clarify that the aroma is delightful when the hops are
dry, and it is not until I immerse them in boiling wort that these smells
start coming off. It smells like I just chucked a handful of semi-composted
lawn clippings in my wort. :)

So I can't locate the source of the problem. Currently I am thinking they
might need seasoning, but, having contacts in Australian Hop Marketers, I
have used hops three days out of the kiln, four days off the plant, without
encountering this problem.

I do believe this forum is for expressing opinions, and personal flames are
a thing of private mail, so please refrain from trying to make people look
stupid. It is not about power relations, but about brewing. This is not
about trying to demonstrate how one is superior and the others inferior. I
am referring to the personal criticism in a posted flame criticising Don Van
Valkenburg. If his opinion is that one should not use homegrown hops cause
it is more complicated than just buying them, then he is entitled to it. 

Sorry for the wasted bandwidth.

Cheers
Miguel.


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Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 22:15:15 +0000
From: Mark Warrington <warringt at erols.com>
Subject: Delaware AG reverses Homebrew Ban!!!!!!!!!!!

Just today the Delaware Attorney General's office reversed the July 10,
1997 Alcoholic Beverage Control Commission's stated ban on homebrewing
in the First State! They still have to look at competitions and
transport, but we are on our way to having these approved by the
legislature (General Assembly) in January! And no worries over raids and
seizure of brewing equipment! Thank you AG!!!!

										Mark Warrington
										Tri-State Brewers
										tristate at aol.com
										http://users.aol.com/tristateb/welcome.html

PS	First State's web page is back!
	http://triton.cms.udel.edu/~oliver/firststate/firststate.html
	
	Welcome back, guys!!!!!

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Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 21:34:01 -0400
From: "Michael E. Dingas" <dingasm at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: RE: Legal?

David Johnson Wrote:
<Subject: Legal?

<Fellow brewers,
<	I just recieved a request from my wife's sister for some brew to=20
<use in a raffle at the family reunion. I questioned the legality of =
this=20
<and suggested that it would work better as a door prize. Is this a=20
<reasonable suggestion? If there is a way to make sure that it would be =
my=20
<wife's other sister, I might call the BATF myself.

I once heard of a 'charity' event which sold tickets for an old worn-out =
blanket that had long since outlived its usefulness. For each ticket =
bought, a free beer was provided. That blanket must have been a beauty =
'cause my understanding is that LOTS of tickets were sold! Was it legal? =
Don't know. Was it true? Don't know that, either. Will it help you out? =
Hope so.

mike



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Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 12:17:37 -0400
From: Douglas Flagg <dflagg at agate.net>
Subject: Plating out yeast

I was re-reading Terry Foster's "Pale Ale" book (from the Classic Beer
Style Series) the other night.  In the section of yeast he states:
"Many ale yeasts are actually mixtures of two or more strains."
Now a little light went off in my head because I have been yeast
farming to try and have my own selections of yeast available for
whenever I wish to brew.

One of the techniques involves taking a sample of beer from a recently
fermented batch and streaking it on an agar plate.  The idea is to 
isolate *a single yeast cell* so it can grow into a *pure* colony.
Am I wreaking my ale yeast sample by doing this??  IS THIS BATCH
RUINED???

I do notice that my ale brews do not seem to ferment nor taste the
same from batch to batch, but hey, they never do anyway. (neither
do my lager batches) and they are supposed to be *pure*

Anyway, the one ale yeast I have on a slant is Wyeast #1968,
Special London Ale.  Does anyone know if this is a blend or a
single strain?

Thanks

Doug

dflagg at orono.sdi.agate.net


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Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 13:15:56 -0500
From: Steve <srockey at egyptian.net>
Subject: Priming question

I need the help of the collective.

	I brewed my first all grain, a California Common.  I used Wyeast #2112 =
California Lager yeast.  The beer was brewed on 6/27, was racked to =
secondary a week or so after that, and has been fermenting ever since.  =
I checked the specific gravity when it was moved to the secondary and it =
was already about 1.014.  When I dry hopped on 7/24,the specific gravity =
was 1.003!  I have never had a beer ferment so far down. =20

	The question is, Will the beer carbonate properly with the FG so low?  =
I do not keg the beer, I use bottles only for now.  I usually prime with =
3/4 cup of corn sugar to five gallons of beer.

	Any and all responses will be greatly appreciated.

				Thanks,

				Steve Rockey
				srockey at egyptian.net


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Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 15:59:20 -0700
From: "Simon A. Wesley" <Wesley at bnlarm.bnl.gov>
Subject: Botulism Data

Hi Folks,
	I know the subject of botulism and canned wort has been beaten to
death, but I would like to contribute some actual data on this subject
for your consideration.  I was a bit irritated when I read a recent post
on botulism so I decided to look up the actual numbers at the Center for
Disease Control (CDC) website. Here is a summary of what I found. The
average number of reported cases of foodborne botulism, which the CDC
classifies as a "Notifiable Disease",  during the period of 1985-1994
was 28.9 cases. This includes two sharp peaks associated with specific
commercial food product contamination incidents.  For example there were
50 cases in 1985  many of wich were attributed to "Fermented fish/sea
Products, AL". 
	More importantly the average annual number of deaths during the period
1982-1991 was 2.9 deaths. (7 in 1985). Indicating that roughly 10% of
the people who contract botulism poisoning actually die.

Here is one factual error from the offending post which I would like
point out from the CDC data.

>As pointed out in "Putting Food By", Botulism incidents in the US
>increased in
>the early 70's at roughly the same rate as the increase in home-canning.
> (There
>was a home-canning craze in the early 70's ).  This was primarily from
>people
>using (or misusing) grandma's methods.

>unhumbly and disgruntledly yours,
> -Alan

According to the CDC data the outbreaks which occured in the mid 70's
(Specifically in 1977 and 1978) were attributed to:
"Jalapeno Peppers, MI" (1977) and
"Potato Salad, NM"(1978).  
	Personally I trust the information from the CDC more than I trust
"Putting Food By"  in this matter.
	One other comment about their analysis regarding the correlation of the
increase in cases to the increase in home canning over a period of a few
years.  Because the case rates are so low there is a lot of statistical
fluctuation in the data.  This means that if rate is 30/yr one year and
the rate jumps to 40/yr the next no significant conclusions can be
drawn.
	I hope that this information will help each of you to make intelligent
risk assesment decisions regarding the processes you chose to use for
canning wort.  I take no particular position for public consumption.

				Respectfully and Humbly yours
				one "clueless" "Yahoo"
				AKA S. A. Wesley

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Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 20:37:31 -0400 (EDT)
From: nkanous at tir.com (nkanous)
Subject: Yeast Ranching 101

Greetings to the collective.  I'm interested in opinions of yeast ranchers
out there on the best way for ranching yeast.  I've read about storage on
agar slants, in glycol/water solutions (glycol?), and sterile distilled
water storage.  I suppose I could also make malt solutions like the Yeast
Lab slants.  I would like to hear pro's and con's of the individual methods
and those preferred by ranchers out there.  Private e-mail would be great
and I could post a synopsis.  TIA

Nathan in Frankenmuth MI


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Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 22:27:28 -0700
From: "LadyGodiva" <lady_godiva at unforgettable.com>
Subject: Thoughts wanted on 1.5 litre mini kegs

Hi all!  Lady G again.  Thanks so much to everyone who offered advice re my
carbonation query.  We found that the 22 oz bottles had a lot more fizz
than the 12 ozers.  Go figure!

Has anyone had experience with the 'mini kegs'?  I am interested in buying
4 of them, but want to hear from someone who has used them.

Thanks bunches in advance!

Lady G.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Yesterday is the past, tomorrow is the future.  Today is a gift, thats why
its called present.


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Date: Sun, 27 Jul 1997 09:05:34 -0400 (EDT)
From: AlannnnT at aol.com
Subject: homebrew on CNN

Unless I missed the discussion, it appears that no one has mentioned the CNN
broadcast about homebewing. In case you didn't see it, I'll highlight.
It was about 15 minutes long, and featured Charlie P as the guru of
homebrewers.
While it was very light stuff it was very respectful of the people who take
beer seriously. The reporter even made his own extract brew and presented it
to judges in New Oreleans for lambasting. 
Given the silly footage availible in a convention hall full of drinking and
carousing CNN took the high road and refrained from cheap shots.

What made this interesting is that CNN produced this piece as part of a
series about personal freedoms in America, a series that also included a
piece about the NRA and responsible handgun use. In both cases CNN could have
villified both groups by being "anties" and showing only the lunatics
involved in either hobby. CNN also briefy touched on the ambiguous legal
position some states have about homebrewing. All in all, I think CNN
presented a positive image for homebrewing. 

Please, please, please don't let my mention of NRA and freedom and homerewing
start a thread about guns- CNN connected them -I didn't - And I don't want
to.

Best Brewing to All
Alan Talman
 


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Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 21:20:22 -0500
From: kathy <kbooth at scnc.waverly.k12.mi.us>
Subject: shelf life of root beer extract

A friend (widow-lady) was cleaning out her husband's home brew materials
from the early 1980's.  She gave me many packs of Hires Root Beer
Extract and I'm wondering if it has a 15 year shelf life.  

TIA for any of your advices  jim booth, lansing, mi



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Date: Sun, 27 Jul 1997 21:47:38 +0000
From: Dennis & Jennifer Britten <djbnajke at iserv.net>
Subject: Contest Entry

I have a question to all the seasoned contest winners.  We just recently
got the results to a contest that we entered by checking
http://www.ghgcorp.com/rlivingston/rendezbrew.html. I found it a little
stange that almost every winner was from the club that sponsered the
contest??  We are not being "poor losers" I just would like to know if
anybody has a way to weed out the not so fair contests and enter the
good ones.  Any suggestions or thoughts about results like to ones
posted on the Lunar Rendezbrew page would be appreciated.

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Date: Sun, 27 Jul 1997 21:56:22 -0500
From: Jim Wallace <jwallace at crocker.com>
Subject: Brewing water pH strangeness

I have been brewing all grain for about a year now but my water is providing
a quirk I can not  understand:... I read my tap water pH at ~6.4 but when I
boil it for about 20 mins to remove chlorine I get areading of ~ 8.8. to
further confuse me it only takes about 2 ml of 30% phosphoric acid to get it
back to the 6.5-7 pH range. 
Any water experts out there with an explanation for this wierdness ??
___________________________________________
       JIM WALLACE ... jwallace at crocker.com
               www.crocker.com/~jwallace  
___________________________________________


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