HOMEBREW Digest #2476 Mon 04 August 1997

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		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com

  carbonation/mixedstrains (korz)
  lowFG/pHswings/maltstorage/teflon/santiary CO2 (korz)
  Keg Baggage? (Craig Wynn)
  Bulkhead Fittings (Jack Schmidling)
  Homeroasted Malt HBD 2475 ("Grant W. Knechtel")
  Eisbock, Labels (Calvin Perilloux)
  legal definitions - EISBOCK (dbrigham)
  RE: soda taps (Michael J. Beaudette)
  mini batches / plambic derivation (Dave Whitman)
  Dry hopping responses (haafbrau1)
  Eisbock ("Ian Wilson")
  RE: Labels.  Use milk (Brian Pickerill)
  Can it!!! (Brian Deck)
  grapefruit taste and smell? (MCer1235)
  Re: Labels (Guy Garnett)
  Small Batches / Labels / Negra Modelo (KennyEddy)
  Pet peeve (Spencer W Thomas)
  Re: At Wit's End -- Another Recipe (Spencer W Thomas)
  RE: RIMS Idea / Question (LaBorde, Ronald)
  Re: A little more on Blue Moon (Spencer W Thomas)
  pMicrobrew ("Kerr, David")
  First Wort Hopping (Brian_Moore)
  Mini Kegs ("BRIAN F. THUMM")
  starters (Greg Moore - SMCC BOS Hardware Engineering)
  yeast harvesting ("Jay Spies")
  Re: A little more on Blue Moon (Graham Barron)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 19:52:02 -0500 (CDT) From: korz at xnet.com Subject: carbonation/mixedstrains Bryan writes: >If you prime or krausen, slightly less fermentable material is necessary due >to the bulk and (for lack of a more scientific explanation) proportionately >less head space than the combined space in two and a half cases of >bottles No, actually, there can't be any reason that 5 gallons in a keg would need less priming sugar than 5 gallons in bottles unless you were filling the bottles so high that the carbonation was inhibited (I still don't have a scientific reason for this). Presuming that you are talking about a 5-gallon keg and 2.5 cases of 12-ounce bottles, the reason you would need less for the keg is because you have less beer: 2.5 cases of 12-ounce bottles is 5.63 gallons. >Force carbonation is preferred by some who object to the residual taste >of priming sugar, and don't have any leftover wort for priming. Chill the >beer in the keg as cold as you can get it. The solubility of CO2 is much >higher in cold beer. Once cold, hook up the CO2 and adjust pressure >to about 30 PSI. Now you have two optoins; either lay the keg on its side >and gently rock back and forth, or leave it overnight (must be kept cold). If Firstly, priming sugar is such a small portion of the sugar profile of wort (which already had contained a much larger percentage of glucose and sucrose than you get when priming) that it can't cause a noticeable flavour change. Next, if you take 50F beer and force-carbonate it to 30psi, you will get foam city. At 50F, I recommend 8 to 15 psi depending on how much carbonation you want. >BTW, once carbonated, use the pressure relief valve on the lid to vent >headspace and replace it with incoming CO2. This eliminates oxygen As Dave said, you need to purge the O2 before you shake the keg. I don't go through all the effort Dave does: I simply shoot a little CO2 into the keg before filling (some CO2 will come out of solution during the racking and all you really need is to protect the first 12 ounces as they splash in), then after filling, I put on the lid and pressurise-purge several times to get the air out of the headspace. *** Regarding the question of whether CO2 in water is sour or bitter, I agree with Dave (again?) and say I feel it's very, very slightly sour. Consider Club Soda versus Tonic Water. The first is mildly sour, the second is decidedly bitter. Note that some mineral waters have a *LOT* of various minerals in them and some of those I've tasted have been slightly bitter. Perhaps that is what Pat is thinking of? *** Mark writes: >I prefer the head of the naturally carbonated beer as it >seems to be finer and longer-lasting than the forced carbonated. Another piece of homebrewing "legend." Can't be true. CO2 is CO2 (when it comes to carbonation) as long as the source is pure (i.e. not combustion). *** Doug writes: >"Many ale yeasts are actually mixtures of two or more strains." >One of the techniques involves taking a sample of beer from a recently >fermented batch and streaking it on an agar plate. The idea is to >isolate *a single yeast cell* so it can grow into a *pure* colony. >Am I wrecking my ale yeast sample by doing this?? IS THIS BATCH >RUINED??? No. The most famous mixed-strain yeast was the old Whitbread yeast which was discontinued and a far more bland (IMO) yeast used in its place. The first strain was a fast-starter, but had low alcohol tolerance. The second was a slow-starter, but finished the job. The second yeast would not flocculate on its own, so the third yeast was added simply to help the second flocculate. *Most* yeasts used commercially are single-strain, but some are multi-strain. >Anyway, the one ale yeast I have on a slant is Wyeast #1968, >Special London Ale. Does anyone know if this is a blend or a >single strain? Both of these are single-strain, to the best of my knowledge. As far as I know, the only multi-strain yeasts sold by Wyeast are the Ale Blend, Lager Blend, and Lambic Blend. Al. Al Korzonas, Palos Hills, IL korz at xnet.com Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 19:54:19 -0500 (CDT) From: korz at xnet.com Subject: lowFG/pHswings/maltstorage/teflon/santiary CO2 Steve writes: >I checked the specific gravity when it was moved to the secondary and it >was already about 1.014. When I dry hopped on 7/24,the specific gravity >was 1.003! I have never had a beer ferment so far down. >The question is, Will the beer carbonate properly with the FG so low? The priming should not be affected by the FG. The beer is probably infected, however, so you may want to taste it before you go through the effort of bottling. *** Jim writes: >I read my tap water pH at ~6.4 but when I >boil it for about 20 mins to remove chlorine I get areading of ~ 8.8. to >further confuse me it only takes about 2 ml of 30% phosphoric acid to get it >back to the 6.5-7 pH range. This is not strange. You have very soft water. Soft water has no buffers and therefore its pH will swing easily. The pH rise you see is due to CO2 being boiled off. *** >Chris writes: >thought...what if i just dropped a handful of dry ice (frozen co2) into >the secondary. <snip> the beer would not get oxidized There is no guarantee that there aren't wild yeasts or bacteria in your dry ice. It can also have oil in it. See my post above... enought CO2 will be released during transfer that you only have to be concerned about the first 12 to 24 ounces. *** Dave writes: >Lastly, if you need an inexpensive source of CO2, make up a fermenting >solution in a bottle with cork and hose attached. Sanitation problems can >be minimized by passing the CO2 through acidic metabisulfite and then >through sterile cotton to minimize aerosols. Finally, I get to disagree with Dave ;^). The cotton will probably remove most of the nasties, but the metabisulphite solution will do nothing. Bubbling a gas through a sanitising solution (iodophor, bleach, etc.) will not kill what's *in* the bubbles... it will only kill what's on the *walls* of the bubbles. Most of the wild stuff in the gas will pass right through untouched. If you are concerned about the sanitation of your CO2, use an inline 0.2 micron filter. *** There was a question about yeast nutrient in mead. Despite the outcome of the Nationals, I don't pretend to be a mead expert. I defer all complicated questions to Dick Dunn, Dan McConnell, and Ken Schram (without whose help I would not have even made my first mead, let alone won a competition with one). This question is easy, I think, so I'll give it a complicated answer... Yeast nutrient usually just diammonium phosphate (DAP). I prefer to use Yeast Energizer (which is a mixture of many different yeast nutrients). DAP is all one colour (white) whereas Yeast Energizer is clearly a mixture of various powders. So, will I keep you in suspense? Naaa... 1997 AHA National 1st place Traditional Mead 3 gal water, 11.5# of Linden tree honey, 2 tsp Fermax Yeast *Energizer*, and a package of Premier Cuvee rehydrated dry yeast. Boil the water, turn off heat, add honey and Fermax, chill with immersion chiller, oxygenate for 1 minute with pure O2, pitch. Ferment at 60-65F for 7 or 8 months, bottle, enjoy. Keys: varietal honey and cool fermentation (minimizes higher alcohols). *** Braam writes: >Should I store the malts that will have to last >long (like Crystal) in the airtight container or should I leave it in >the double lining PVC bags. The darker crystal malts seem to not mind a little humidity, but the palest crystal malts (CaraPils) gets a clovey/medicinal aroma and flavour after a few months... not only do I store CaraPils in a sealed bucket, but I also put in a dessicant. *** Kirk asks about teflon washers. I made my own from a sheet of teflon (expen$ive!). *** I'm off to London for two weeks, so I'll be off-line. If anyone is going to the GBBF, I'll be there virtually every session. I'll be the 6'3" guy with long brown hair, shaggy black beard, gymshoes, and a camera bag. Oh, I'll probably have clothes on too, and definitely a Cask-Conditioned beer in my hand. Al. Al Korzonas, Palos Hills, IL korz at xnet.com Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 23:54:43 GMT From: cwynn at sawyer.ndak.net (Craig Wynn) Subject: Keg Baggage? Can I get on an a US comercial flt.carrying a 5 gal korny? What's going to be asked if I try and check it in as baggage? Could I try and carry it on board? If the answer is yes to any of the above how should I package it? Do put it in a box?=20 How much internal pressure? Should I try labels with "This end up"? I've sent it in the past via UPS. Now I have the chance to visit my pilot brewery investor and I like to hand carry a partial batch of K=F6lsch. craig Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 19:38:49 -0700 From: Jack Schmidling <arf at mc.net> Subject: Bulkhead Fittings From: "Kirk Harralson"<kwh at smtpgwy.roadnet.ups.com> " I'm sure this would work, but I can't imagine using rubber washers without affecting the taste of the wort. I can't imagine how you would taste the amount of rubber that would leach out into a ten gallon batch but that is a separate issue. The problem with rubber is you can't make it tight enough and you have the heat problem. It has been my experience with thousands of EASYMASHERS (R) installed in kettles that a metal to metal seal is all that is required. If you really want a washer use hard fiber. We supply one with the EM but it is really only intended to take up the shoulder where there are no threads when used on real thin kettles. Stainless washers against a stainless kettle might not be the best choice and I would sugest using brass instead. It will conform under pressure to the contour of the kettle. You might also consider er, ah saving yourself all the trouble of hunting down the parts and just buy something designed for the job. js - -- Visit our WEB pages: Beer Stuff.........http://ays.net/jsp Astronomy.......http://user.mc.net/arf ASTROPHOTO OF THE WEEK..... New Every Monday Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 23:19:28 -0700 From: "Grant W. Knechtel" <GWK at hartcrowser.com> Subject: Homeroasted Malt HBD 2475 Ken Schwartz talks about making some home roasted chocolate malt. I think what he describes, though, is a classic brown malt. Should make some great UrPorter. Now back to our regularly scheduled botulism thread... -Grant Neue Des Moines Hausbrauerei Des Moines, Washington Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 1 Aug 1997 06:17:14 -0400 From: Calvin Perilloux <peril at compuserve.com> Subject: Eisbock, Labels Eisbock: At the risk of being pedantic: >"(a) Conditions on concentration. A brewer may not employ any >process of concentration which separates alcohol spirits from any >fermented substance." The law says that you can't remove the spirits from the material that has= = been fermented. It could well be argued that (1) water is not fermented;= barley malt, sugars, etc are fermented, and (2) you are not removing the = spirit from that barley malt/sugar/etc. but are instead removing only ice= , that is to say, water. Had the law been worded simply "concentrating = the alcohol" it would have certainly ruled out Eisbock. = This interpretation naturally relies on the judge/jury's acceptance that = the water and the sugars are separate "substances". Maybe the = argument is a bit of a stretch, or maybe it's shows enough of an = ambiguity to discourage active enforcement against this method of alcohol concentration. As JW in Grapevine put it, the chances = of the BATF bashing down your door for your perhaps contraband = Eisbock are remote. I'd say nearly as remote as dying of botulism from your wort starters. Labels: I use regular laser printer paper (either white or colored works= ) chopped down after printing to label size and stuck on with glue stick. Of three brands I have tried so far, Uhu Stic is the best; the other two = were too slimy. The labels come off in a half minute in hot water, longe= r in cold water, and hence they are not much good if you plan to set your = bottles in a cooler filled with ice water for a picnic. = Calvin Perilloux Bondi Junction, Australia Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 01 Aug 97 07:37:29 EST From: dbrigham at nsf.gov Subject: legal definitions - EISBOCK (sorry in advance for wasting more digest bandwidth on this, but I couldn't help myself) I'm not a lawyer - I don't even play one on TV, but reading that legal definition of what form of distillation is not permitted for brewers shows me that it *IS LEGAL* to brew an EISBOCK in the traditional method. I have copied in the definition from the original post below. Is not making an EISBOCK taking an already fermented beverage, bringing the temperature to around freezing so the *WATER* freezes and can be removed from it? If so, when is the alcohol being seperated from the "fermented substance"? The water being removed is not the "fermented substance". Someone viciously correct me if I am wrong - Dana Brigham (dbrigham at nsf.gov) ******************************************************************************** According to US law ( 27 CFR part 25 section 25.262 "Restrictions and conditions on processes of concentration and reconstitution"): "(a) Conditions on concentration. A brewer may not employ any process of concentration which separates alcohol spirits from any fermented substance." And by definition ( 27 CFR part 252 section 252.11 "Meaning of terms"): "Distilled spirits or spirits. That substance known as ethyl alcohol, ethanol, or spirits of wine, in any form (including all dilutions and mixtures thereof, from whatever source or by whatever process produced) but not denatured spirits." ******************************************************************************** Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 1 Aug 1997 08:15:02 -0600 From: beaudettem at rl.af.mil (Michael J. Beaudette) Subject: RE: soda taps Chris Hansen asks about using a soda tapper for beer, but I was unable to e-mail direct. (Chris?) Chris, I aquired a soda dispenser from my homebrew shop that is what you would see at a deli counter. It had five pull taps, and built in chiller assembly. The unit was about the size of a large computer monitor. The compressor and motor were shot, and other parts had already been scavenged by the soda distributer, but how could I say no for the price of only...free! What I did was to use the tap portion only. With the stainless mounting plate mounted on a picnic color and cold plate inside, I was able to serve 5 styles of homebrew and cider on tap at my wedding party. If your taps are the same as what I have, the plastic behind the tap is about 1.5" in diameter (I do this from memory) and 3-4" long. Inside that is a piece that is shaped similiar to a rocketship nose cone. Remove that. Soda is dispensed at a higher pressure, and is throttled down at the point on dispensing for some reason. I used only the tap portion, and when I tried to dispense homebrew with the "nose cone" installed, I had excessive foaming. With it removed, normal flow. I now have my taps installed in my brew 'fridge, and they dispense as well as my $40 metal taps. For cleaning, I use my favorate cleaner (which ever one I have enough of) in hot water in my "extra" corny keg. You can never have too many. I simply dispense the cleaner through the system the way I would brew, followed by a rinse of water. The taps I have are simple to disassemble completely, allowing for a complete cleaning before use as stale soda does not improve the flavor of a fine pale ale. Chris, go for it a let the digest know what works for you. Good luck a let me know if I can help further. Mike ps- If the unit works for you as is, great, but I suspect you may need to change the line size if it is as small as mine was. It was under a 1/4" ID and caused me nothing but trouble. pps- if the chiller portion works, you should have no problem chilling to serving temperature as most soda is stored at room temperature and force chilled (and often carbonated) and serving. Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 01 Aug 1997 08:22:28 From: Dave Whitman <dwhitman at rohmhaas.com> Subject: mini batches / plambic derivation In HBD#2475, Jim Thomas asks: >Could someone please enlighten me on the placement of the letter "p" in >front of Belgian style beer names, e.g. pwit, plambic, etc. > >Is this some sort of acknowledgement that only REAL Beligian ales are >brewed in Belgium? I have always assumed that this convention started with lambics brewed outside of Belgium ("false lambics"), punning off definition 2 of the the hacker word "pnambic", and then generalized to other belgian-style beers. >From the Jargon File: >pnambic /p*-nam'bik/ > >[Acronym from the scene in the film version of "The Wizard of Oz" >in which the true nature of the wizard is first discovered: >"Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain."] ... > >2. Of or pertaining to a process or function whose apparent operations > are wholly or partially falsified... Also in #2475, Richard Cuff asks for recommendations on making smaller batches. I've done this a few times when I was doing experimental brews. The one thing that tripped me up was overconcentrating during the boil. If like many people, you try for vigorous boil and run your heat source at full blast, you'll boil off a certain amount of water per hour, independent of the batch size. If you cut the batch size, the tendency is to boil off a larger percentage of the wort volume than you would on a regular sized batch unless you adjust the heat down. Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 1 Aug 1997 08:42:24 -0400 From: haafbrau1 at juno.com Subject: Dry hopping responses Due to overwelming response to my inquiry, I wish to thank everyone via HBD for all of your help. The advice(s) given are helpful, and all responses have been saved for future reference. Hopefully, my shoulder/arm will recover soon, so I can get back to this wonderful pasttime. Since it's still too hot though, I'd have to wait a little while to try all this new info out anyway. This means I'll be forced to buy ready-made beer, as my stockpile is dwindling. (missed making my last two batches before the fall). Once again, thanks to everyone who took the time to write. Paul Haaf haafbrau1 at juno.com Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 1 Aug 1997 06:35:54 -0700 From: "Ian Wilson" <ianw at sosinet.net> Subject: Eisbock Jeff McNally points out that the Federal Law states that distillation is the separation of alcoholspirits from any fermented product. This is where the definition becomes too vague to work well. Some BATF people jave defined the Eisbock process as distillation; some have defined it as water removal. There are no current legal precidences that I can find by which an Appeals Court has rendered a written opinion as to a usable, workable definition to this problem. The discussions are moot until: 1) the BATF specifically states that eisbock production is legal; 2) home production of eisbock is legal; 3) Congress passes law, which is signed by Mr. P further defining the distillation process to exclude eisbocks; 4) some poor sap goes and sets himself up as a test case. BTW I'm not an attorney, yet, and no, I won't defend you. Ian Wilson Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 01 Aug 1997 08:40:02 -0500 From: 00bkpickeril at bsuvc.bsu.edu (Brian Pickerill) Subject: RE: Labels. Use milk "Christopher D. Hutton" <bachstar at erols.com> asks: >What are the best labels to use on bottles? I'm looking for easy removal. This has not been covered on the HBD in a long time. MILK is the best thing to apply paper labels so long as you aren't going to store them in a cooler with icewater. Water will make the labels fall off, otherwise, they stick like glue. I find that any milk seems to work fine, (I use skim) and doesn't smell like you think it might. (Admit it, you were thinking it would stink...) Just soak the labels (laser printed, whatever, plain paper) in some milk and place them wet on the clean bottles. Then, wipe them dry from the center of the label out to the edge. WORKS GREAT. Finally, I have not done this, but glue stick is supposed to work well, too. I think it might hold the labels on a bit better if they get wet, but I'm not sure about that. Milk is great because the WHOLE label sticks tight to the bottle. - --Brian Pickerill, Muncie Malt Mashers, Muncie IN Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 1 Aug 1997 08:51:49 -0500 From: deck at pathbox.wustl.edu (Brian Deck) Subject: Can it!!! ALL: I am getting really sick of this botulism thread, and I know I am not the only one. We have firmly established that we cannot agree whether canning wort should be a "generally acceptable" practice or not. No one has done anything more that speculate throughout this whole thread. Can we please just allow those who want to can wort to continue, and those who do not to coninue not doing it? If this is going to continue, let's just change the name to "The Botulism Digest" and those of us who want to unsubscribe can go ahead and find another homebrew forum; one where beer-making is the primary topic. Brian Deck "I drank what?" -Socrates Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 1 Aug 1997 10:10:38 -0400 (EDT) From: MCer1235 at aol.com Subject: grapefruit taste and smell? I tried to make a Foreign Stout last winter but had some problems. I was wondering if anyone could diagnose my problems and suggest better brewing practices. The OG was about 1.070 (estimated). 1)The beer did not carbonate. I used to appropriate amount of sugar for a regular ale, but I believe that yeast either flocculated out or died/got damaged or all of the above. 2) My wife noticed a "rotten" grapefruit smell. My guess is that I fermented to warm. I used about 1/4 quart of slurry from a local brewpub. I believe it was a London Ale type of yeast. Am I correct in my assumptions? Thanks, Rene' Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 01 Aug 1997 10:18:21 -0400 From: Guy Garnett <ggarnett at qrc.com> Subject: Re: Labels "Christopher D. Hutton" <bachstar at erols.com> asks: >What are the best labels to use on bottles? I'm looking for easy removal. Here's what I do, and I've never had a problem getting them off again. I have full-color lable artwork that was prepared by an artist I know. For really spiffy bottles, I have this copied with a color copier, and I cut the labels out (for less-spiffy bottles, I copy it in black-and-white). I stick the labels onto the bottles with an ordinary gluestick (the cheap kind). I just run a line of glue along the edges of the label, and stick it onto the bottle. It comes right off in warm water. I only put labels on a few bottles (that I intend to give away, or that will at least be seen by other folks). For my own use, I have a colored dot on the cap to identify the batch. I have a bunch of those colored-dot stickers that you can get at office supply stores, and I stick a dot to each cap, and write the bottling date on the dot after the bottles are capped. I also stick the same color dot to my sheet of notes about the batch in my notebook. Guy Garnett ggarnett at qrc.com (301)-657-3077x125 - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Dreams do not vanish, so long as people do not abandon them." - L.Matsumoto Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 1 Aug 1997 10:22:44 -0400 (EDT) From: KennyEddy at aol.com Subject: Small Batches / Labels / Negra Modelo Richard Cuff writes: "I'm interested in brewing some 1- or 2-gallon batches of various beers to add some variety to my homebrew experience and to try out some recipes and techniques. As for my experience level, I'm an extract brewer but use specialty grains and liquid yeast." Richard, you are in a perfect position to meddle with all-grain brewing. Your batch size is small which drastically simplifies your equipment requirements. Get a small (say 8-qt) ice chest and modify it to add an outlet and a filter "manifold". Drill a 1" diameter hole through the end wall just high enough to clear the inside bottom. Using a larger hole saw, flat blade bit, or even a sharp utility knife, enlarge the hole on the outside layer only. Push a 3" - 4" piece of 1/2" ID x 5/8" OD vinyl tubing through a Fass-Frisch mini-keg bung (see you HB supplier) with the plastic plug removed so that about 3/4" sticks out the "tapered" side. Push this into the cooler hole so that it seals in place. You might want to drill a couple holes inthe lid and spray in some spray-foam insulation. Inside, cut a length of 1/2" copper pipe and press-fit a cap on one end. Drill 3/32" holes through the pipe along its length every 1/4", or use a hacksaw and cut slots across it. The pipe should be sized so that the open end slips over the tubing inside, and the pipe lays flat on the cooler bottom with the open end flush against the bung and the capped end up against the opposite wall. This should prevent it from coming off during mashing, though do be careful when stirring. Now, on the outside, put a 1/2" hose barb elbow on the free end of the tubing, and add aonther length of tubing sufficient to reach the bottom of your brewpot which is on a chair below the countertop (or whatever your logistics require). Trim the tubing coming from the bung so that the elbow just clears the cooler and the tubing won't sag. A pinch-clamp on the vertical length of tubing should be adequate for flow control. Sparge by scooping hot sparge water from a larger pot on the stove, using a measureing cup, ad pouring it solwly on the grain bed as needed. This rig of course would work with partial-mashing larger batches as well. ***** Christopher D. Hutton asks: "What are the best labels to use on bottles? I'm looking for easy removal." I use a small bead of "Tacky Glue" (found at craft stores) around the perimeter of the label. Sticks quickly and comes off with hot water. ***** Todd Wilson writes: "I must say that one of my favorite beers is Negro Modelo and I don't have a clue as to how one would categorize it other than it is a dark lager. Could someone please post some info on this brew? I would like to try to brew an all grain clone so if anyone has any interesting recipes please pass them along." It's a toss-up between Negra Modelo and Bohemia for my favorite Mexican beer (though I have yet to try Noche Buena). These beers are descendents of the Vienna Lager style once brewed in Europe. The brewmasters who emigrated to Mexico and Central Texas towards the beginning of this century brought the style with them, and it subsequently went extinct in Europe. There was a Vienna recipe in yesterday's HBD2474, and I'm sure a bunch of them are at the Cat's Meow at The Brewery (http://brewery.org). ***** Ken Schwartz El Paso, TX KennyEddy at aol.com http://members.aol.com/kennyeddy Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 01 Aug 1997 10:34:56 -0400 From: Spencer W Thomas <spencer at engin.umich.edu> Subject: Pet peeve When you're reading stuff for information, you don't "pour" over it, unless you accidently spill your beer. You "pore" over it. Remember: pour: To emit in a stream; to cause or allow (a liquid or granular substance) to flow out of a vessel or receptacle; to discharge or shed copiously; also, to emit (rays of light). Said either of a person, or of a thing which discharges a stream pore: To look at something (usu. a book) with fixed attention, in the way of study; to read or study earnestly or with steady application; to be absorbed in reading or study. Thanks for making my day happier. :-) =Spencer Thomas in Ann Arbor, MI (spencer at umich.edu) Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 01 Aug 1997 10:43:23 -0400 From: Spencer W Thomas <spencer at engin.umich.edu> Subject: Re: At Wit's End -- Another Recipe I said: Spencer> The only real flaw was a pronounced diacetyl aroma, Spencer> because I racked the beer into the keg too soon. I had some of this beer last night. Warm, because my keg fridge is dying, but that's another story. The diacetyl is gone. What's left is a refreshing, citric, slightly tart beer. Wonderful! Of course, there's only a gallon or so left. Why is that *always* the case? :-) =Spencer Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 1 Aug 1997 09:51:15 -0500 From: rlabor at lsumc.edu (LaBorde, Ronald) Subject: RE: RIMS Idea / Question From: Darrell <darrell at montrose.net> ...So here's my plan. I use two recirc pumps, one for the sparge water to the heat exchanger, and the other for the mash through the heat exchanger. The sparge recirc would then be controlled by a simple dial thermostat and a thermocouple in the mash. The thermostat can be set for whatever the desired mash temp, and the sparge water would only be recirc'ing (heating) when the mash was below target. The sparge tank could either be heated by a propane burner (original idea), or by an electric water heater element with a water heater thermostat (latest thought). In either case, I don't think I'll have to keep too tight a control on the sparge water temp (so long as it's at or above 170F), since the controller will only be keying off of the mash temp, and not trying to correlate the two.... This sounds workable Darrell. When you stop the sparge recirc, the wort in the chamber will not be overheated thus not killing the enzymes. I am using a 5/8 O.D. coil tossed into the sparge tank and recirc the mash liquor through the coil to control temperatures. When I have reached desired temperature, I stop the recirc. This stops the mash recirc as well as stopping the temperature boost. The sparge water temperature would be too difficult to controll quickly enough to avoid over shooting the desired boost temp. With my method I am not recirculating the mash for the full time, but it is recirculating during boosts, and this seems to be long enough to obtain wort clarity and extract efficiency. Notice I said seems, cause I haven't done any calculations or comparisons yet with other systems. ....1. Eliminates costly electronic controller for heating element.... Yes, I manually controll the sparge/exchange liquor temperature. Things happen more slowly than with the element in a chamber method. ....2. Eliminates the possibility of scorching the mash on the element.... Right-on Darrell. And I only need to brush my teeth, not a heating element.... ....3. Should simplify cleanup (?), since the element is out of the mash.... Seems plausible. ....4. Eliminates one heating element.... Yes, and all three of my tuns are plastic. Don't need any steenkin stainless steel. $$$$. My mash tun is a 10 gallon picnic cooler (insulated) so I get good heat conservation. ....1. Sparge water must be kept hot during entire mash.... No problem, I do this anyhow. ....2. Requires extra recirc pump.... Yup. ....3. Longer time required between steps for step mash.... This caused me some consideration (not worry), and what I do is raise the sparge/exchange liquor to a near boiling temperature to speed up the stepping. Seems to work well. ....I'm mainly ....considering this idea for a single step infusion mash, but I think if ....the sparge were allowed to boil, there might be enough heat to make step ....mashing possible. Cold water could then be added to get the sparge back ....down to 170 F.... ....Whaddaya think?... Stepping was no problem with my setup. Probably for two reasons: 1) I heated the sparge/exchange liquor to near boiling at the beginning, then let the temperatures balance out. 2) I use an insulated cooler for the mash tun. Darrell, I use two pumps in my setup and I get several advantages that make it worth the extra expense of a second pump. One thing, my RIMS is a three tun setup all on the same level. No step ladders in this brewery!. Also, the system was easily built up on a ready made cart. It is a chrome wire two shelf cart, ordered from a catalog. Came with wheels, easy to keep clean, and looks spiffy. I can look into any of my tuns and enjoy the view without any climbing or ladders. I use electric heating elements in the sparge and boiler, so no noisy propane rockets and this allows me to use the wire shelves and simply set the tuns on them with no cutting or modifications to the cart. Happy Brewing Ron Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 01 Aug 1997 10:54:32 -0400 From: Spencer W Thomas <spencer at engin.umich.edu> Subject: Re: A little more on Blue Moon I find myself in a curious position: I'm much harsher on "micro" products than on the "mega" attempts at "craft" beer. Thus, I tend to cut A-B, Coors, etc. some slack when they produce a wimpy version of a classic beer, with the cop-out "At least they're trying." It is an odd form of reverse discrimination. =Spencer Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 1 Aug 1997 10:55:26 -0400 From: "Kerr, David" <David.Kerr at ummc.ummed.edu> Subject: pMicrobrew Jim Thomas asked: "Could someone please enlighten me on the placement of the letter "p" in front of Belgian style beer names, e.g. pwit, plambic, etc. Is this some sort of acknowledgement that only REAL Beligian ales are brewed in Belgium?" "True lambic is only made in the Senne valley outside of Brussels in Belgium. Only here has the microflora been found appropriate for the production of spontaneously-fermented beer." - Lambic Digest FAQ The designation pLambic (pseudo-Lambic) is used to 'fess up to the fact that the beer was brewed elsewhere. The new designation pWit is employed to describe a mildly tangy, spicy, cloudy, faintly aromatic beer from any brewer with a capacity of more than 20K barrels. Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 1 Aug 1997 09:57:33 -0500 From: Brian_Moore at amat.com Subject: First Wort Hopping Greetings all! There's been a few mentions of "first wort hopping" lately. I'm not familiar with this method, but it sounds like you put hops in right as you are starting to collect sparge runnings from the mash. Does anyone know what this adds to the beer? I'm guessing just bitterness since the following boil would tend to drive off all the flavor and aroma (similar to a bittering hop addition). When calculating IBU's should I just treat the FWH like an early (1 hr) hop addition? I'm putting together a 100 IBU IPA recipe and I'd hate to end up with only 95 or so! Brian Moore Austin TX Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 01 Aug 1997 11:08:46 -0400 From: "BRIAN F. THUMM" <THUMMBF at GWSMTP.NU.COM> Subject: Mini Kegs Has anyone ever tried to transfer between mini kegs under pressure? I know that I am not supposed to force carbonate in a mini keg. But, what if I were to naturally carbonate in one mini keg, and then filter into a second mini keg under about 10 psi. Can I do it? I don't think I have the room for corny kegs in my fridge, so I have been looking at mini's, but I don't want to buy a system that won't provide the benefit I desire.... Brian Pier 147 Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 1 Aug 1997 11:24:42 -0400 From: Greg.Moore at East.Sun.COM (Greg Moore - SMCC BOS Hardware Engineering) Subject: starters I hope the collective experience of HBD can help me on this one. For my last two batches of beer, I've made starters. Also, for my last two batches of beer, I've had very cloudy beer. The beer tastes fine, and clears after a month or two in the bottle/keg. Since one of the batches was a repeat batch, and my actual brewing process has not changed from before, I feel that I've done something wrong in the starter process. I'd like to avoid the 1-2 month settling if possible. 1st starter: Smacked pack, (yeast 1084) let it expand over two days, nice and puffed up. Soaked Growler, funnel, airlock in clorine water. Boiled 1/2 LB light DME in 1/2 gallon of water for 15 minutes in a SS pan (regular cooking utensil). Cooled in an ice bath (wort chiller too big for this pot). put wort in growler and pitched yeast (wyeast 1028). Ended up with a little over a quart of liquid in the growler (little over half full). Two days later, I agitated the growler (to get the yeast cake off the bottom) and pitched this into the primary. 2nd starter: Smacked a wyeast 2206 (Bavarian Lager) - after two days, bought a second and smacked it since the first was rather slow for it's age. After two more days, both packs were puffed up. Made two starters, one for each pack, using the starter process above. (still wasn't sure I wanted to use the first one yet). This time, I used Iodopher to sanatize instead of clorine. At brewing, decanted most of the wort from the slow starter, used most of the wort from the fast starter and pitched both into beer. Anyone see anything glaringly wrong with this process? Anyone have some general hints about doing starters? TIA -=G gmoore at wacko.east.sun.com So much beer, so little time. Drink hard. \\|// (o o) =========oOO==(_)==OOo=========== Please sir, may I have some more? Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 1 Aug 1997 11:36:13 +0000 From: "Jay Spies" <BantinRJ at mda.state.md.us> Subject: yeast harvesting All - I would like to make a Chimay style clone, preferably one of Chimay Grand Reserve/Blue Cap, and I have heard of folks harvesting the yeast out of the 750ml bottles and re-using it. I would like to know how this is done, so if anyone has suggestions/instructions, let me know. BTW, does anyone have a good all-grain Chimay Grand Reserve clone recipie? There are a few good ones in the Cat's Meow, but I'd like to get a recipie that someone has already tasted and can vouch for. Private e-mails are fine. Thanks. Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 01 Aug 1997 11:48:27 -0500 From: Graham Barron <gbarron at cq.com> Subject: Re: A little more on Blue Moon Spencer wrote: >I find myself in a curious position: I'm much harsher on "micro" >products than on the "mega" attempts at "craft" beer. Thus, I tend to >cut A-B, Coors, etc. some slack when they produce a wimpy version of a >classic beer, with the cop-out "At least they're trying." Well, I certainly understand where you're coming from. I used to do the same. I used to be a mega-brewer apologist, but then I took a different look at what they're trying to do. I always thought, "Wow, we've really made some headway here. Even A-B, etc., are trying to make good beer!" But then I thought "what are they really trying to do here?" I saw the special on Dateline, the ATF complaint against Sam Adams, all the buyouts of micros, I tried their "microbrews." And their commercials; on the one hand they were singing the praises of their new, "rich, but not bitter, natural and smooth" micros, and the awards they were winning, while on the other hand they poked fun at the craft brewing industry and claimed their crap was the only "real beer." We've probably all seen the TV ad where the two "real men" walk into a bar and say, "Look Joe-Blow, they have a 'beer menu' here. Peach Pale Ale, Hazlenut-Pecan Nut Brown Ale, Double Rich Coffee Chocolate Stout. What is this? [They smile at each other knowingly] . . . give me an Old Budmilloors." They'll simply never be satisfied with less than 100% of the beer market and that's all they're trying to do with these mega-micros -- get back that 3 or 4% (or whatever the number is) that micros/brewpubs/homebrewing has taken away from them. All those mega-micros do is tempt away people who otherwise might be willing to at least try a real microbrew. Imagine this scenario. John Q. Public is in the grocery store. His friends have talked about Sierra Nevada pale ale and Sam Adams Boston Lager and how good they are. Ok, it's on the shelf. "Maybe I'll try it," he thinks to himself. He reaches for it . . . but, wait, what's that right next to it? "Michelob Classic Pale Ale [substitute any megamicro name here]." Hmm. . . "I've always like that Michelob line. You know what they say . . some days are better than others." And look at that great display Michelob has put up. "Smooth, not bitter." Yeah, that's what I like. And that babe in the bathing suit! Wow! Look at the price, too! Only $4.99. How much is this Sierra stuff? $7.99!!! I'm not made of money. I'll just get the Michelob. Walk into the beer section of your main street grocery store Saturday afternoon and you'll probably (if you could read people's minds) see this scenario play out more than once. That's why I won't spend one second of my time defending these guys. They're not trying to make good beer. They're just trying to make more money. Now I'm an ardent capitalist, and the goal of almost any business is to make money, so don't get me wrong. I'm just saying that we, as homebrewers and craft beer lovers, shouldn't support their efforts either in word nor voice nor dollar. I'd love to be convinced that their motivations are otherwise, so other comments/theories requested. Graham L. Barron New Media Congressional Quarterly Washington, D.C. (202) 887-8684 Return to table of contents
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