---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com


Contents:
  Controlling Fermentation Temps (David Whitwell)
  Hop Back,Arty Acronymn ("David R. Burley")
  Blue Moon (Kit Anderson)
  Minnesota Brewfest and Competition (Steve Piatz)
  Carbonation & fill level, an experiment (Spencer W Thomas)
  Gas Flow Characteristics (eric fouch)
  Re: Foreign Stout ( serious answer ) (Jacques Bourdouxhe)
  Budweiser's born-on bull (Steve Jackson)
  Re: Cold Box ("Ted Major")
  more fun than botulism and eisbock talk ("Kerr, David")
  Hop disease diag (th22)
  Celis White clone (Sean Mick)
  Rice syrup solids (Sean Mick)
  DWC malt quality (Sean Mick)
  5l mini kegs - Jim Graham (Alpinessj)
  Minikeg bung in Gott ("Val J. Lipscomb")
  Flaked barley & DME (MIS, SalemVA)"
  Losing My Head (and body) (Charles Burns)
  When to pick hops ? (Ian Smith)
  Filtering beer ("Robert C. Sprecher, M.D.")
  Re: Hop back (Joe Stone)
  The Hop Research Department of Wye College (Andy Walsh)
  Aureus hops ("Kevin F. Schramer")
  pH Problems ("Joseph G. Spears")
  Indianapolis Propane Burners (DAVE BRADLEY IC742 6-7932)
  how to measure extract weight by volume (Eugene Sonn)
  Low Water pH (A. J. deLange)
  Re: Honey Brown (Rory Stenerson)
  Re: yellowing hop leaves (Jay Reeves)
  Buying LME from Williams Brewing? ("Bret A. Schuhmacher")


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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 06:48:17 -0700
From: dwhitwell at foxcomm.net (David Whitwell)
Subject: Controlling Fermentation Temps

O Great Brewing Collective:

I've seen the recent discussion of temperature controllers both here and on
RCB, and I finally decided to chime in with something I found on the web.

At http://hbd.org/users/mtippin/  (sound familiar?)  is Marty's Homebrew
Gadgets Page (man, this guy is my kinda gadget junkie), and near the bottom
is a link to http://members.aol.com/kennyeddy/chiller/chiller.html  which
has plans for building your own fermentation chiller, using polystyrene and
frozen plastic milk jugs.  The author says his unit can be built for ~$70
if you use all new parts.  I modified it to be a bit sturdier, but the cost
was well under $50 because I scrounged stuff.

Why?  Because that leaves my spare fridge open to store homebrew, my frozen
hops, and uses a heck of a lot less power than a fridge temp controller
would.

Brew On!
David Whitwell
Half-Whit Brewing
"Because Half the whit's Brew, and Half the Whit's Don't"


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Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 09:50:41 -0400
From: "David R. Burley" <Dave_Burley at compuserve.com>
Subject: Hop Back,Arty Acronymn

Brewsters:

Compuserve lied.  I still have the same transmission
 problem.  Sorry about this inconvenience.
- ----------------------------------------------
Braam Greyling asks for information on a
 hop back construction.

I know what I mean by hop back, but I'm
 not sure I know what you mean, since these
 pages and publications have used the term
 to be some sort of inline filter into which you
 can also dry hop! while racking the wort..

In the British brewing industry the hop back is
 most often a shallow tank with a bottom filled
 with narrow slots which can be covered by a =

sliding plate also with slots.  The hot boiled wort
 is pumped to the hop back with the plates in the
 "closed' position and allowed to settle.
 The plate is slid to "open" and the wort is then
 filtered through the hop bed to remove the hot
 break and the hops simultaneously. This wort
 is then directed to the cooler and aerated
 before fermentation. =


I basically do the same thing when I rack my
 hot, whirlpooled wort through a "Choreboy"
an unsoaped copper or SS metal turnings
 kitchen scrubber pad ( see back issues for
 more discussion) at the bottom of my racking
 cane leading from my wort boiler to my Cc
 cooler setup.  This performs amazingly well,
 with no clogs and when the transfer is complete
 the whole leaf hops I use are wet, but there is no
 liquid left.  The hot break is trapped by the hops
 just as in the commercial variety. Cheap, simple =

and works better than anything else I ever tried
 ( and that's a lot of things).
- ----------------------------------------------  =

Privately accosted by the acronym police again,
 I reply RT is " room temperature".  In STP terms
 ( I.e. Standard Temperature and Pressure) it is 20C ( 68F).

 In Britain of course that would be 62F (16C)
( as I recall my chilly Welsh Post-doctoral days)
 and in most of the US 68F =

or in my Grandma's house 85F (30C)!
- ---------------------------------------------
Keep on brewin'


Dave Burley
Kinnelon, NJ 07405
103164.3202 at compuserve.com
Dave_Burley at compuserve.com  =

Voice e-mail OK =


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Date: Thu, 07 Aug 1997 09:52:49 -0400
From: Kit Anderson <kitridge at bigfoot.com>
Subject: Blue Moon

Marc wrote;

>Kit wanted to replicate the tartness in Blue Moon ale.

No...Kit didn't. Who started this ugly rumor? Blue Moon isn't tart enough.
It isn't anything enough. It should be called White Lite. Tartness in a real
wit is achieved with 88% lactic acid.

Your OG was 1059 and you couldn't tell it apart from BM? I'll wager BM isn't
bigger than 1042. Your recipe has no wheat so, although it sounds delicious,
it isn't a wit either.

- ---
Kit Anderson	   ICQ#2242257
Bath, Maine	   <kitridge at bigfoot.com>		

I suppose that it's theoretically possible for a Yankee to
make decent barbecue. But it sure ain't a pretty thought!
                                        -Smokey Pitts


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Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 08:58:33 -0500 (CDT)
From: Steve Piatz <piatz at cray.com>
Subject: Minnesota Brewfest and Competition


The Minnesota Brewfest is the weekend of October 11 and 12.  The event
includes a homebrew competition as well as a single malt scotch tasting
and a cask conditioned ale tasting both conducted by Michael Jackson.
See http://reality.sgi.com/piatz_craypark/brewfest.html for complete
details of the events.  The online stuff doesn't have the entry form
and the bottle labels (yet), you can the standard AHA sanctioned
competition forms (I would like to just be able to link to the AHA's
server rather than generating my own forms).

If you can't read WEB pages send me an email and I can snail mail a
copy to you.

The competition has most of the standard styles placed in 14
categories.  The prizes are great; $100 for each first place, $50 for
second and $25 for third, each is in addition to a very nice medal.
This year the Minnesota Brewfest is one of the competitions
participating in the Midwest Homebrewer of the Year Award.

Entries are accepted between 11:00 am on Monday September 22nd and 6:00
pm on Sunday September 28th.

If you are interested in judging the competition please let me know.
We anticipate judging both the weekend of the event and the weekend
prior to the event.

- -- 
Steve Piatz             Cray Research, a Silicon Graphics Company
piatz at cray.com          655F Lone Oak Drive
612-683-5268            Eagan, MN 55121

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Date: Thu, 07 Aug 1997 10:00:49 -0400
From: Spencer W Thomas <spencer at engin.umich.edu>
Subject: Carbonation & fill level, an experiment

Bottom line: Unfortunately, the result of the experiment is that we
need to do it again, because of problems in learning to use the
equipment.  (We should have started with some Budmilloors, instead.)

Participants: Spencer Thomas (instigator), Stephen Klump (brewer),
Jeff Knaggs (owner of test equipment).

Stephen bottled 2 bottles each of a batch of pale ale with a high
fill, regular fill, and low fill.  High fill was to the rim, regular
about 1 inch down, and low to the shoulder of the bottle.

The bottles were allowed to condition naturally for about 4 weeks.
Spencer then drove them to the Quay Street Brewing Co. in Port Huron,
where Jeff Knaggs has a Zahm-Nagel carbonation tester.

We used a jury rig to fill the tester from the bottles.  This rig was,
we think, the main cause of our problems, as it leaked quite a bit.
We ended up needing to use both (12 oz) bottles of each sample for
each test, so we could only make 3 measurements.

The results were totally inconclusive, as the "measured" carbonation
increased in the order of testing: regular, low, high.

Jeff has figured out a new rig using stainless-steel tubing instead of
vinyl, which he thinks will work much better next time.  Now it's just
a matter of getting some 22oz bottles filled and conditioned for
testing.

=Spencer Thomas in Ann Arbor, MI        (spencer at umich.edu)

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Date: Thu, 07 Aug 1997 10:17:39 -0400 (EDT)
From: eric fouch <S=fouch%G=eric%DDA=ID=STC021.efouch%Steelcase-Inc at MCIMAIL.COM>
Subject: Gas Flow Characteristics


Date: Thursday, 7 August 1997 10:11am ET
To: STC012.HOMEBRE3 at STC010.SNADS, Craig.DeBruyn
From: Eric.Fouch at STC001
Subject: Gas Flow Characteristics
In-Reply-To: The letter of Thursday, 7 August 1997 2:36am ET
 
HBD-
To all the gas flow gurus, a paltry conundrum:
I want to have 13 liters per minute gas flow (propane) maintained at the
lowest possible pressure. Actually, 10 psi is my optimum low pressure. Two
questions: 1) What is the best configuration of the regulator and flow meter?
Should the regulator be between the flow meter and the tank, or between the
flow meter and the burner (providing back pressure)?
Observation: With the regulator between the flow meter and the tank, the flame
at the burner appears to be larger. 2) Is pressure drop in the line a major
factor? Will a 20 foot line behave the same (in terms of flame size and BTU
output) as a 50 foot line for the same regulator/flow meter configuration?
 
OK, technically three questions, but the last two are pretty much paraphrases
of each other.  I'll drink a Coors product as penance.
 
TIA
EJF
efouch at steelcase.com
"Mothers are the neccessity of intervention"  -Me


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Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 11:27:51 -0400
From: bourdouj at ERE.UMontreal.CA (Jacques Bourdouxhe)
Subject: Re: Foreign Stout ( serious answer )


Hi Brauwmeisters,

Dave Draper ( in Dallas )  wants to know the characteristics unique to
Foreign Stout.
According to Graham WHeeler's book " Brew classic European beers at home "
Guinness Foreign Extra Stout ( FES ) has the following specifications:
O.G. 1.073
Alcohol content: 7.2% by volume
Bitterness 65 EBU
Color 200 EBC
" A world classic,its roots in the early porters and stouts of London and
Dublin. The beer is a blend of regular stout and a second beer that is
matured in oak vessels. It has the horse-blanket aroma that is a result of
attack from wild Brettanomyces yeast... "

So, it seems that a FES should be:
strong, hoppy and ... include a wild yeast.
Conclusions: If you want to brew a FES true to style, you'd better
subscribe to the Lambic Digest or maybe blend it with some Rodenbach
Grand-Cru . I think FES is a unique  and VIABLE style and should not be
killed by Dave.
I hope this helps.

Now, I have 2 questions:
1)  Why is it called " Foreign "? is it because it is or was brewed only
for export and is not available in Ireland, like IPA was brewed for export
to India?
2) Where can I buy Guinness FES in Canada?

Jacques " support you local Bretts " in Montreal


*************************************************
* Oh beer! O Hodgson, Guinness, Allsop, Bass!   *
* Names that should be on every infant's tongue *
* ( Charles Stuart Calverley )                  *
*************************************************



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Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 08:28:28 -0700 (PDT)
From: Steve Jackson <stevejackson at rocketmail.com>
Subject: Budweiser's born-on bull

I know this isn't really homebrew related, but I figured the
collective would find this amusing.

There was a small item in the alternative weekly here in Indianapolis
this week about a guy drinking a Budweiser that was "born on" July 10,
the exact same day he was drinking the beer. Bud's local distributor
attempted to write it off by saying that A-B's Columbus plant, where
Indy's Bud is produced, is brewing 24-7, so it's possible that an
early morning truck heading out of Columbus on the 10th made it to
Indy, and the distributor got the beer to the bar and the bar got the
beer into the customer's hands all on the same day.

Notwithstanding the fact that I've never seen a distributor move beer
that quickly, something seems more than a little fishy about Bud's
"born on" dates here. Even for as something as thin as Bud produced by
heavily industrial mechanisms, there's no way in hell that a
fermentation could be completed in a day. And I would guess Bud's
"exclusive beechwood aging" takes a bit longer than a few hours as
well.

Just goes to show what a multi-million-dollar marketing budget can do.





_____________________________________________________________________
Sent by RocketMail. Get your free e-mail at http://www.rocketmail.com


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Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 13:08:17 -0400
From: "Ted Major"<tmajor at exrhub.exr.com>
Subject: Re: Cold Box





In today's HBD, Dave Burley suggests a cold box for Jim Graham, who doesn't
have room for a beer refrigerator.

It just so happens that I built a prototype this weekend.  I'll put up a
more detailed account on a web page with photos after I refine it a bit,
but here is the rough-and-ready version.

I picked up 50 feet of .25" ID soft copper tubing at the local building
supply warehouse, along with a few extra hose clamps.  I used a keg to make
a neat coil that fits into a Styrofoam cooler (until I get a nicer one for
the task).  I put it in-line between the liquid out and picnic tap and
filled the cooler with ice and water (the icemaker in the refrigerator
didn't make enough ice to fill the cooler).  On the whole, it worked well
enough, cooling the beer from 65F to about 45F.  It took about 35 PSI of
CO2 to move the beer trough the coil, but room temp beer needs more
pressure to maintain carbonation.  It leaked a little bit where the beer
line met the copper tubing, but I think I can take care of that.   I think
a full bag of ice would also cool more efficiently than the insufficient
amount of ice I used for the test.

Ted Major
Athens, Georgia



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Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 13:24:19 -0400
From: "Kerr, David" <David.Kerr at ummc.ummed.edu>
Subject: more fun than botulism and eisbock talk

Nathan L. Kanous II wrote:
"It seems to me that I have heard (and have in fact tasted) a distinct
grapefruit taste when using Chinook hops."
Graham Barron weighed in with:
"I've always found Cascades have the strongest grapefruit aroma and
flavor."

I sampled Shipyard's "Fuggles IPA" last week and was overwhelmed by the
grapefruit aroma and flavor.  Assuming Fuggles hops are used in this
brew (yeah, I know what happens when you ass-u-me), does mean that:
UK Fuggles=Cascade=US Hallertauer Mittlefruher=US Tettnanger
or
US Fuggles=Cascade=?
If only I has a gas chromatograph...
Dave "I'm my own grandpa" Kerr  


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Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 14:57:29 -0400 (EDT)
From: th22 at cornell.edu
Subject: Hop disease diag

        A few days ago someone (sorry, I deleted your post) inquired as to
possible reasons for yellowing of the lower leaves of their hop plants.
David Burley suggested that it could be caused by Verticillium wilt, which
Dave attributed to a virus, and further said that the symptoms on his
tomato plants disappeared after switching to a VFN variety.
        Ooh!  Ooh!  Here's my chance to contribute!  I'm a pseudo plant
pathologist (I study plant-pathogen interactions at the molecular level)
but I've had enough traditional plant path to know that Verticillium is in
fact a fungus, not a virus.  The symptoms on tomato are mild wilting which
is most pronounced during the hot part of the day.  Plants generally
recover late in the day and look fine in the morning.  Advanced symptoms
include marginal and interveinal necrosis of the (typically lower) leaves
which often has a v-shape with the wide end at the leaf margin.  If you
pull an infected plant and cut away the epidermal tissue, the vascular
tissue will be brown, and fungal hyphae will be visible under a dissecting
microscope or possibly with a good hand lens.
        On HOPS (aha, some brewing info!) the leaves generally don't droop
as they do on tomato, but the leaves do wither while remaining fairly
rigid.  Upper leaves will wither if the plant is severely infected.  If a
bine is pulled, the crown will remain attached to the stem (unlike a
Fusarium-infected bine) and the vascular tissue will be brown.  This
browning is a key diagnostic symptom, as many problems can cause wilts.  In
both tomato and hops, leaves will have grayish patches of sporulating fungi
on them late in the season.  Verticillium wilt typically occurs in wet or
poorly drained soils, and is worst on Fuggles.
        I checked our Crop Protection Chemical Control manuals for some
labeled chemicals for use on hops.  The only labeled chemicals are all
pre-plant soil fumigants.  They include Telone II and C-17, and Vapam, and
can only be applied by Certified Applicators.  On tomato, Benomyl and
carbendazim fungicides can be used as soil drenches.  I'd suggest pulling
some of your diseased plants immidiately after harvest and checking them
for the characteristic brown vasculature.  You could also check the roots
for nematodes.  If your plants are in poor soil nitrogen fertilizer may
help, but the affected leaves won't recover their former green glow.
        Good luck!!

Tom Herlache
th22 at cornell.edu



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Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 13:25:18 -0700 (PDT)
From: homebrew at dcn.davis.ca.us (Sean Mick)
Subject: Celis White clone

Barry,

I liked what you had to say on the HBD today. I also thought it was
inappropriate for people to chime in that Blue Moon was a hack and not to
"style" (whatever that means for a category that only has a few commercial
examples!), and then not even address the question/request for a clone.

I recently brewed a Belgian White that was meant to be somewhere in the
neighborhood of either Celis White or Hoegaarden Witbier. You may also want
to check out the Cat's Meow for a recipe called Zoso White, which I think
is supposed to be similar. Pierre Celis uses Cascade & Willamette for
hopping, and Coriander & Curacao Orange Peel for aroma. Raw Texas Winter
Wheat makes up roughly 50% of the grist, with the rest being domestic pale
malt (I would guess Briess or Great Western). The yeast is most likely from
Hoegaarden, but some have commented (Michael Jackson included) that the
yeast profile is somewhat softer than that of Hoegaarden. Since you want an
extract recipe, I would suggest finding a domestic wheat extract (50/50 or
thereabouts), using roughly 7 lbs. for 5 gallons, and then use enough of
the Cascade and Willamette to bitter at ~20 IBUs. There should be no hop
aroma, some hop flavor, though. Use 1 oz. Orange peel and 1/2 oz. Coriander
for the final 5 minutes. Buy Wyeast # 3944 Witbier yeast, White Labs Wit
yeast (from San Diego, ready to pitch), or similar yeast from a competitor
(or culture it from Hoegaarden bottle). Ferment at ~66F until done, should
reach a FG of about 1.006-1.010 (depending on fermentability of extract).
My all-grain recipe reached 1.006. Here's what I did, for reference:

4.5# Belgian Pils malt
3# White wheat
1# Flaked wheat
1/2# Flaked Oats
1 oz. Domestic Kent Goldings-60 min
1/2 oz. Czech Saaz -20 min
1/2 oz. Orange Peel-5 min
3/4 oz. Coriander-5 min
1/2 oz. Orange Peel - dry herb in secondary
1 coriander seed whole in each bottle (per Charlie Papazian's suggestion)
White Labs Wit yeast (from Hoegaarden)
10 ml Lactic Acid at bottling (actually, I used almost 1/4 of a 2 oz. 88%
sol'n bottle)
OG~1.050, FG 1.006
IBU~ 20

Mashed in at 135, raised to 150F for 1 hour. Boiled 1 hour with above
hopping schedule, full 6.5 gallon boil (reduced to 5 over hour).

If I had it to do over, I'd add all of the Orange Peel at the boiling, like
indicated above. My beer has a pronounced coriander presence, so I would
guess I have Charlie P to thank for that. Otherwise it is effervescent,
tart, and refreshing. Color is right on for "style." Don't forget to
pulverize the Orange Peel and coriander, like in a coffee grinder. Also,
you should add Lactic Acid at bottling time, 5-10 ml should do nicely. You
are shooting for 3.6-4.0 pH.

Good luck! Let me know how it turns out.

Sean Mick
Mick's Homebrew Supplies
http://www.dcn.davis.ca.us/~homebrew



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Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 13:45:20 -0700 (PDT)
From: homebrew at dcn.davis.ca.us (Sean Mick)
Subject: Rice syrup solids

>My HB shop sells rice syrup solids.  What is the SG contribution of this
>fermentable per pound.

Bernard,

According to my sources, rice syrup solids should yield ~45 points/lb/gal.
 IOW 1.045 Specific gravity for 1# in 1 gallon of water. Don't know
fermentability %,
but it should be more fermentable than most malt extracts, since it is
meant to lighten beer's
 flavor and body.

See ya,

Sean Mick
Mick's Homebrew Supplies
http://www.dcn.davis.ca.us/~homebrew



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Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 14:03:37 -0700 (PDT)
From: homebrew at dcn.davis.ca.us (Sean Mick)
Subject: DWC malt quality

Keith Busby <kbusby at ou.edu> wrote:
>A homebrew supplier I talked with recently has stopped selling DWC malt on
>the grounds that its quality has become inconsistent recently. Is this a
>widespread view?
>Graham L. Barron responded:

>I've always found DWC to be of the highest quality and regularly of high
>quality, at that.  DWC seemed always to make the best Belgians and German
>lagers.

I'd have to agree with Graham. I sell almost the complete line of DWC malts
and have not been let down yet. I use them regularly in my own brewing. I
have noticed that Special B can have quite a range of colors from year to
year, which will affect the roasty character a bit. Personally, their
Munich malt is my favorite, but all the others are quite nice. I would
recommend them to anyone, especially over some of the domestic malt when
being considered for a Belgian or German brew. I have not tried most of the
German malts due to difficulty in consistently obtaining them, however. I
may change my mind on some recommendations once I get ahold of some
Weyermann malt. Storage, and dealing with a reputable wholesaler could
explain some of your shop owner's difficulties. I buy from West coast
distributors in 50lb. sacks, so I know that I am getting genuine DWC (made
exclusively for Schreier). I sincerely hope your shop finds a way to keep
the line of malts available for you.

Sean Mick






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Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 17:02:52 -0400 (EDT)
From: Alpinessj at aol.com
Subject: 5l mini kegs - Jim Graham

I have not seen an answer to any of Jim's questions over the last couple of
 days so I'll give my input.
 
 I started using the 5l mini's because I did not want to get into the 5
gallon
 corny's and C02 dispensing system (actually, my wife would not let me). But
 w/ 1 keg and 22 oz bottles each batch did not take a lot of time to bottle.
 
 I basically treated the 5l mini as a big bottle as far as priming goes.
 However, since there is less head space per given volume of beer, you have
to
 cut back on the amount of priming solution. I found that half strength of a
 normal bottling priming solution worked well. I would pour half my priming
 solution in the bottling bucket, then rack the beer in, fill the 5l mini,
 pour the rest of the priming solution in, gently stir, then finish bottling
 as normal.
 
 Buying the 5l mini's with beer already in them works fine, but you can't
 follow the instructions or use the taps that come with them. They tell you
to
 dispense the beer by turning the keg upside down (using gravity to push out
 the beer) and cut a hole in the top to prevent a vacuum. If you dispense
them
 with the taps meant for homebrew  and the C02 cartridges you'll be fine.
 
 Lastly, a word on the Carbonator. I have never used this to carbonate the 5l
 mini's, but I found it very usefull in dispensing the beer when you get
tired
 of buying the C02 cartridges. If you use a grolsh-type washer to make a good
 seal, you can screw it into the back of the tap instead of the C02 cartridge
 attachment and then hook it up to a ball-lock C02 dispenser. This provides
 for a smoother pour because you can regulate the C02 much better, and it is
 actually cheaper than buying the cartridges in the long run(I can fill my 10
 lb cylinder for $11 and it lasts 6 to 12 months). The cartridges are still
 good if you go on a camping trip or hiking where you don't want to lug
around
 a big C02 cannister.
 
 Anyway, hope this helps and I'm sorry this went so long.

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Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 16:30:08 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Val J. Lipscomb" <valjay at NetXpress.com>
Subject: Minikeg bung in Gott

In HBD #2478,Ken Schwartz says:

> BTW this use of the bung as a bulkhead works great in a standard Gott-type
>cooler, but since the hole is a bit off the floor of the cooler, the >manifold
>arrangement needs to be different than I described.  Try two 45-deg couplers
>to drop from the hole to the floor level.

 
In my set-up,I raised the copper manifold using short pieces of 1/2"
copper tubing screwed to the bottom of the manifold.This gives a space
for draff to collect under the manifold and IMHO results in a clearer
runoff. Mine takes a thick wall 3/8" vinyl tube through the bung to
a 3/8 X 1/2 coupler on the manifold. I got the idea from a fellow
club member who has his manifold sitting on a bed of 1/2" marbles.
Works for me,YMMV.

Val Lipscomb-brewing in San Antonio


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Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 16:38:06 -0400
From: "Moyer, Douglas E (MIS, SalemVA)"
Subject: Flaked barley & DME

All,
	I spent some (company) time perusing the HBD archives on using
flaked barley in an extract stout. The primary opinions are as follows:

1) Go ahead & steep for 30 min.  at  150 deg.
2) Steep with the extract at 155-158 deg for 15-30 min, only if the
extract is diastatic.
3) Do not steep--will not provide head retention & will cause haze (not
visible in a stout). Partial mash with equal amounts of pale malt  at  155
deg for 1 hour.

I am using Munton's amber dry malt extract, which my homebrew supply
owner *thinks* has very little diastatic power.

Based on the experience of those of you that are extract-brewing, how
should I use the flaked barley (1 lb for 5 gallons)? I am not going to
build a mash tun at this time. Will I get any head retention if I steep?
(I really don't care about the haze, since I will be using 1 lb of
roasted black barley.) I am willing to try to do a partial mash using a
crock pot (to hold heat) and a strainer if I need to do so. If I need to
do a partial mash, is equal parts of pale malt the way to go?

I am planning on brewing on Sunday, so I would like to get a private
email response by this afternoon (Friday). I will summarize to the group
if I get anything worth summarizing. ;-)


Doug Moyer
Big Lick Brewing Collective
"Big Lick--looking for better head."

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Date: Thu, 7 Aug 97 16:34 PDT
From: cburns at egusd.k12.ca.us (Charles Burns)
Subject: Losing My Head (and body)

Clarification. My beer gets clearer as time goes on, not cloudier. Also as 
time goes on, it loses body and head retention. Dave B suggests it may be an 
infection. Last week I spent 4 hours cleaning the brewery, basement and 
refrigerator because it was beginning to smell musty/mildewey. It's spick 
and span now and also sanitized becuase I wiped everything down with a 
bleach solution after washing. I even took apart all the taps in the fridge, 
sanitized those and cleaned all the hoses too. Worked up a good sweat. If 
the problem was sanitation, it ain't no more. We'll see how the pale ale I 
brewed on Sunday turns out.

Charley


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Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 17:36:31 -0600 (MDT)
From: Ian Smith <rela!isrs at netcom.com>
Subject: When to pick hops ?


Does anyone know how to tell if and when to pick hops from the vine ? I 
have lots of green clusters right now which smell great but cant decide 
if it is time to pick them.

Also there has been talk of a "grassy" smell/taste associated with home grown
hops on the HBD. Does anyone know how to avoid/eliminate this ? I plan on
using a food dehydrator to dry my hops - how do I know when they are dry ? 

Cheers
Ian Smith
isrs at rela.uucp.netcom.com


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Date: Thu, 07 Aug 1997 21:07:30 -0500
From: "Robert C. Sprecher, M.D." <rcs8 at en.com>
Subject: Filtering beer

What's the best filter size to use for filtering beer.

I've seen 0.5, 1, 5, 10, and 20 micron filters. Any recommendations?

Thanks.

Rob Sprecher
 


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Date: Thu, 07 Aug 1997 18:12:24 -0700
From: Joe Stone <joestone at cisco.com>
Subject: Re: Hop back

Does anyone have any experience with the S.S. hopback offered by Ken
Johnsen at Precision Brewing Systems?  The P.B.S. hopback is listed at
$84.95.  Their web page,

	http://www.wp.com/hosi/pbscat.html

describes the hopback as,

   * All Stainless Steel Construction
   * Screws into the bottom drain (1/2") of your boiler (we recomend
     you use an SS compression fitting)
        o 3/8" SS compression adapter available for 3/8" drains
        o Can also connect to your drain via 1/2" id tubing
   * No loss of height between kettle drain & line out of hopback.
   * Easy to open and clean.
   * holds up to 1.5 oz. of leaf hops.

through private E-mail, Ken has described the hopback as,

> Vessel is all stainless (tank, in/outlet, cover & screen. Measures
> 5 3/4" high by 5" diameter. Capacity is 1 qt. Inlet is 1/2" od tube 
> about 3/4" below top. Outlet is also 1/2" and comes off 180 degrees
> from inlet. Cover is held on by wing nut.

  This is not intended to be an advertisement for P.B.S.  I'm not 
affiliated with P.B.S., but I have had Ken modify four Vollrath pots
for me.  Overall, I was happy with the quality of the work and I am
considering purchasing his hopback.

  Any thoughts?

Joe

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Date: Fri, 08 Aug 1997 11:17:39 -0700
From: Andy Walsh <awalsh at crl.com.au>
Subject: The Hop Research Department of Wye College

Before any readers prematurely dismiss the claims of Colin Green as
being those of a raving lunatic (that US Tettnanger = Fuggle and real
Tettnanger is the same variety as Saaz anyway, from the samples he has
tested), I thought I should say a little about the Hop Research
Department of Wye College, where he works.

The Hop Research Department holds *the* elite stocks of all hops grown
in Britain. Material derived from these stocks is supplied to specialist
propagation firms, then to the growing industry. Hop varieties bred at
Wye have formed the basis of most of the hop breeding programmes
throughout the world. It has been the main centre for scientific
research on hops in Britain for over 100 years and has become
established as a world leader in most aspects of hop research.

The article was published in the Journal of the Institute of Brewing.
This is one of the most highly regarded technical publications on
brewing in existence, and all articles are rigorously screened by
experts from the industry before going to print. Colin Green's
statements would have arisen from months of extensive research at Wye
beforehand.

So before dismissing these claims out of hand, just ask yourself, "Do I
know as much about hop breeding as Colin Green would?" If the answer is
yes, you're probably in the wrong job.

Andy.

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Date: Thu, 07 Aug 1997 23:00:53 -0700
From: "Kevin F. Schramer" <humulus at megsinet.net>
Subject: Aureus hops

I received several hop plants a few months ago from a french company:
fuggles, wye challenger and aureus....i know about the fuggles and wye
challenger....but I can't seem to find out anything about the Aureus.
Can anyone out there shed some light on this hop variety?  It will be
greatly appreciated, especially since it will be living in my yard.
thanks
kevin F schramer
humulus at megsinet.net

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Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 07:35:29 -0400
From: "Joseph G. Spears" <jspears at twave.net>
Subject: pH Problems

If your pH is 5.0, you should raise it for all of your water to 
protect your plumbing system as well as to improve your brewing.  
This s done with an acid neutralizer added to your plumbing system as 
the water enters your house.  They are not expensive, adjust 
pH and add  calcium to the water.  

Joe Spears CWS-V
Certified Water Specilist

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Date: Fri, 08 Aug 1997 11:55:33 +0000 (GMT)
From: DAVE BRADLEY IC742 6-7932 <BRADLEY_DAVID_A at LILLY.COM>
Subject: Indianapolis Propane Burners

For those in Indy, I just saw a good deal at the sporting
goods store Galyan's, located in Castleton.  They were
clearing out some camping equipment, including a two-
burner propane stove w/stand, for $79.  Now that is
a fair price, but the interesting thing I noticed was
this Cache Cooker unit has two ring-style burners identical in
appearance to the Superb units.  Each burner is rated
for 30K BTU.  Carpe burners!!  If I didn't already have
two pseudo-ring high-pressure burners, I'd have bought this.
Its a good deal.  The stand they're in are probably OK for
5g batches, but the burners themselves are easily removed
for custom mounting.  Galyan's also is selling the
high pressure pseudo-ring single burners for $29.
No affiliation, just sharing what I saw....

Dave in Indy
Home of the 3-B Brewery, (v.) Ltd.



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Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 08:34:55 -0400 (EDT)
From: Eugene Sonn <eugene at dreamscape.com>
Subject: how to measure extract weight by volume

HBDers,
	I've got a strange request.  Because I'm brewing several batches
in short order, I bought a 15 kilogram vat of malt extract.  Here's the
question: how do I measure out the appropriate number of POUNDS of extract
without a scale?  Does anyone have a good approximation for how many cups
of extract equal a pound?  I've consulted all the homebrew books I have
access to as well as the Joy of Cooking.  Private e-mail would be great
unless you feel everyone would benefit from the answer to this very
specific question.

Eugene Sonn
eugene at nova.dreamscape.com


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Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 08:52:15 -0500
From: ajdel at NOSPAMmindspring.com (A. J. deLange)
Subject: Low Water pH

Rick Pauley asked what could be done about water at pH 5. I would guess
that this water comes from a well in which case it is quite possible that
the pH can be raised to a reasonable value simply by letting dissolved CO2
escape. Try pouring a couple of quarts back and forth between buckets a few
times and see if the pH increases. If it does, keep going to see how high
the pH can be raised by this process. You might be surprised.

If this is sucessful then, obviously, aeration will do the trick. Boiling
will also remove CO2 and raise pH but may also precipitate chalk lowering
calcium ion concentration (usually bad) and simultaneously lowering
alkalinity (usually good).

If aeration does not raise the pH then have the water checked. There really
isn't anything I can think of which should find it's way into the water
naturally other than CO2 which would lower pH this much (I don't consider
sulfuric or nitiric acid from acid rain "natural").

Cheers, AJ

Numquam in dubio, saepe in errore.

Remove NOSPAM to reply.



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Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 09:59:45 -0400
From: Rory Stenerson <71762.1664 at compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: Honey Brown

John Penn wrote in the last HBD:

"I also recently made an ESB from a recipe provided by another HBD lurker=
,
Dave
Kerr, and substituted 1 # of honey for the 1 # of sugar in the recipe.  I=
n
spite of my initial impression of "honey" beers, I must say I think I lik=
e
having a little honey in the beer.  It makes for a lighter tasting ale wi=
th
more kick than you'd expect and there's a certain flavor to the honey tha=
t
I
like but cannot describe."

Cheers to you John, may I also suggest that you use locally produced hone=
y
in your future formulations?  There is a big difference between the honey=

you can get from a local beekeeper and honey found on the supermarket
shelves.  If you wish, send me via e-mail your city and state you live in=

and I'll send you the name of a local beekeepers association.  They will =
be
able to help you select a floral variety that may really enhance your nex=
t
brew.

Prost,

****************************************************************
*               I believe that the phenomena of nature         *
*               is the expression of infinitive intelligence   *
*               I express my belief that all forms of life     *
*               are manifestations of spirit                   *
*               and thus, we are all children of God,  Peace   *
****************************************************************
* Rory Stenerson
* V.P. State College Underground Maltsters, S.C.U.M. =

* Member - Centre County Beekeepers Association    =

* State College, PA USA                           =

* Email: 71762.1664 at compuserve.com               =

*                                               =

****************************************************************

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Date: Fri, 08 Aug 1997 09:12:15
From: Jay Reeves <jay at or.com>
Subject: Re: yellowing hop leaves

There was some talk a few weeks ago about the leaves yellowing
on home-grown hops.  Someone (sorry, forgot who) I think mentioned
that it was a chemical deficiency and that putting some magnesium
sulfate on the mounds would correct the problem (or at least it did
for them).

I did just that to my plants and yellowing has occured since then
to leaves that were green at the time of the MgSO4 application.

My wife and I happened to be out in Yakima, Washington last week
and toured HopUnion and Roy Farms.  Everyone knows that HopUnion
is a hop broker/processor.  Roy Farms is one of the largest hop
growers in the Yakima Valley (not to mention they are also one
of the larger fruit producers of the area -- yes, fruit alongside
hops).  We talked with Leslie Roy (one of three brothers that have
been at hop growing all their life) and I asked about yellowing
leaves.  It's strange, because he finished my question before I
could -- obviously it was a problem he was all too aware of.

He said the yellowing older leaves were a result of either
irregularities in the watering patterns, or not enough sun.

Leslie said that if the plant experiences periods of dry along
with periods of wet, the older, lower leaves will turn yellow
and drop (he didn't explain why that is - can anyone here?).
He recommended that the best solution to this was to ensure
that the plants receive water on a daily basis, but warned
not to overwater.  He said that a drip-irrigation system was
ideal for this and easy to do, even for the hobby-grower.

Leslie also said that shade (or not enough sun) will cause the
older, lower leaves to yellow in the same way.  His explanation
was that the plant senses a decrease in sunlight and "thinks"
it does not need the leaves for photosynthesis, so it drops
them.  He said yellowing from that doesn't physically hurt the
plant, although yellowing from watering irregularities could.

I mentioned the deal about adding magnesium-sulfate and he said
that if the yellowing was due to a chemical imbalance in the
soil, the entire plant would be affected, not just the lower,
older leaves.

I wonder if by applying the MgSO4 by the person that posted
about it, that you didn't just happen to water them a little
more thinking that it would get the MgSO4 into the ground
better, and thus it was actually the extra water that did the
trick and not the MgSO4?  Just speculation....

The drip-irrigation systems I observed in place in the fields
were of a hard, black plastic, 1/2"-3/4" diameter hose
(technical name?) with small holes punched in it every few feet.
Water was run through these continuosly, providing water to
the plants.  This type of system would be easy to make.  I
believe this type of hose may be used in plumbing.

The other irrigation system I saw in fields had a small ditch
between the rows, constantly being fed water from a shut-off
valve at the end of each row.

Leslie said that the ground around it only needs to be kept
moist, not saturated with water.  Another thing he said was
not to fertilize after the burrs start to develop because
the plant would go into a growth mode and quit putting its
energy into hop development.   In the "big-boys" hop fields,
the fertilizer is injected into the water.

If anyone ever finds themselves in Yakima, you owe it to
yourself to call ahead and arrange a tour at each of these
places, but please call ahead.  They are very nice people
and are willing to talk all day about hops, just as brewers
are willing to talk all day about beer.  I wouldn't recommend
going when they are processing the hops because they may be
too busy.  We were shown the entire process that the hops go
through from the field to the bail at Roy Farms, and the
processing that HopUnion does in pelletizing and packaging.

BTW, they're going to start picking the hops in 2-3 weeks
and will continue into October.  The Tett's are in full
swing and will be the first to go, with everything else
right behind them.

		-Jay Reeves
		Huntsville, Alabama



                                
NOTE: Any replies need to manually change
the "or" in the "reply to" field to "ro"
 - sorry, but blame the spamers for that!

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Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 10:42:28 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Bret A. Schuhmacher" <bas at healthcare.com>
Subject: Buying LME from Williams Brewing?


Williams Brewing (www.williamsbrewing.com) seems pretty good - great
prices, nice web site where you can track your order, etc. - but I'm
worried about buying LME from them.  They sell in pre-packaged 6#
bags.  I usually buy from other places that have big drums of LME that
I can get say, 7.3# in a bucket.  Is the inability to get the exact
amount a big problem when brewing?  Do you make up the difference
between 6# and 7.3# with DME?  How/where do you store extra LME
(like if you bought 12# from Williams and used 7.3#)?  Does it go
bad?  

Thanks,

Bret
- -- 
A nuclear war can ruin your whole day.

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---