HOMEBREW Digest #2496 Mon 01 September 1997

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		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
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  122 rest/micro hoppiness/fruit beer ("C&S Peterson")
  Mash Efficiency (LBarrowman)
  Wet freezer (Jim Daley)
  Wood alcohol (Brent Irvine)
  What about Anchor "Our Special Ale" Recipe (Wade Hutchison)
  Oud Bruin Anyone? (jjb)
  Crystal vs. caramel (David Johnson)
  Lemon Weiss ("david dow")
  Salvator ("Jim Hunter")
  Re: hmm . . .) ("Ted Major")
  RE: Classic American Pilsner ("Darren W. Gaylor")
  Req. for help from electrically hip HBDer(s) ("Dave Draper")
  malts (Dave Sapsis)
  Beery Linguistic Origins (Rob Kienle)
  7 gal Rubbermaid Mash Tun ("Rosenzweig,Steve")
  122F/wheat rest/break in starters (smurman)
  Re-cork Chimay/Affligem Bottles with Homebrew? (jjb)
  Re: Pete's beer tidbits (Steve Jackson)
  storage temps (James R. Layton 972.952.3718 JLAY)
  Michigan State Fair results (Spencer W Thomas)
  Re: Mash temp at sparge (brian_dixon)
  A.J. DeLange?  Parts 3 & 4? (brian_dixon)
  hot liqour tank, new beer trend... ("Bryan L. Gros")
  Re: Overnight mashing summary (John D Elsworth)
  RE: Strike Water Temps ("Capt. Marc Battreall")
  1997 Dixie Cup Homebrew Competition web site (Sean Lamb)
  "Famous Ales of England" ("Grant W. Knechtel")
  Death of botulism and BATF (Samuel Mize)
  Fruit beer sweetness ("Grant W. Knechtel")
  Wyeast 1272 vs. 1056 American Ale yeasts ("Michael Kowalczyk")

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 29 Aug 97 11:54:00 UT From: "C&S Peterson" <CNS_PETERSON at classic.msn.com> Subject: 122 rest/micro hoppiness/fruit beer HBDers - Dave B quoted my results from using a 122 rest in an all-wheat beer and I just wanted to set the record straight -- I think my post may have been mis-leading. I included in my post on 122 rests was a read-out of overnight mashing of the first decoction in a double decoction mash. The post provided a "headless" all-wheat beer as evidence that the 122 rest degrades heading properties of even beers expected to be loaded with MWM protiens. Dave deduced that the overnight mashing technique was used in the production of this wheat beer (a natural association since I did not provide details on how the mash of the all-wheat was performed -- sorry, my mistake) The all-wheat beer I mentioned in fact did not use the overnight decoction rest. This beer was made with a "traditional" double decoction. The whole mash was raised to 122, given a 30 minute rest, the first decoction was pulled, saccrafied, boiled, and recombined. The main mash sat at 122 for a long time (few hours). When I got the headless result on this beer is when I decided in future beers to start the main mash later in the decoction, and eventually to keep the main mash (less the decoction fraction) at 130 or above for no more than 30 minutes. Now, given that this was done for a doppel and a fest, and I still had some beers with troublesome heading properties. Which is kind of curious since only 1/3 of the mash had seen the 122 rest, albeit an extended one. So, maybe some other components (lipids?) were pulled out during the extra-long 122 rest of the overnight decoction fraction and these killed the otherwise OK heading properties in the main mash fraction. Just conjecture on my part. Micro hoppiness too tame? I guess I would have to agree that there are a lot of IPAs out there using the name but not deliverying. Plenty of pilseners too. Of course there are exceptionally good example of these styles, as Jim B. points out. Which really gets to what I was concerned about before -- my hope is that b-pubs and micros offer balanced line-ups, with hoppy beers as well as malty, roasted, smoked, etc as desired. What I don't like to see is pubs/micros that simply say, "lets take X style, hop the hell out of it and boost the gravity" as a RULE. This approach works great, and in fact invents new styles. But then I would hope these brewers would also have the creativity to make, say, a malty beer starting at 10 degrees. Or a toasted American Wheat. Or any of the creative syles we as homebrewers fool with. Are we seeing the toning down of pub/micro styles to appeal to the masses? I find that trend most disturbing..........its how we got Bud. But unfortuantely a trend that is present in many other countries. Britian is filled with middle of the road beers, as is Germany. While on the whole the drinking is better in these beer loving regions, I am often disappointed when I get to these countries and find it difficult to get exceptional beers (or maybe my expectations are just inflated). You can certainly get some really great beers there, but there are tons of toned down bitters, IPA, helles, dunkels, etc along the way. Is this where the US micros are heading? Hope not..... Finally, there was a question on boosting the flavor of a Blueberry Ale. My suggestion is that most of the "flavor" at this point is already in the beer. The best way you can increase this impression is to boost the aroma. Try to find some natural blueberry extract (in the small 1.5 ounce bottles -- not the large jars at the homebrew store) -- adding this at bottling will help bring through that blueberry flavor you're looking for. Lactose will also help sweeten, if you can't find malto-dextrine powder. Chas Peterson Laytonsville, Md Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 08:13:52 -0400 (EDT) From: LBarrowman at aol.com Subject: Mash Efficiency There has been a lot of talk about different methods of mashing. Everyone has an opinion on the variables that affect wort make up and final beer product. I do enjoy all of these discussions and save many of them for reference. I am still on training wheels as far as all-grain brewing is concerned so my question is a bit more basic. How do I improve my efficiency? I thought I was getting around 70% until I consulted an article in March/April BT. According to that source I am closer to 60%. Also, the author claims homebrewers should expect no more than 65-68%. Other homebrewers seem to get anywhere from 50% to an unbelievable 90+. I would appreciate some thoughts from the collective. Here are my stats: batch size - 10 gallons mash tun - rectangular cooler w/ slotted in/outlet manifolds pH control - nada temperature control - nada misc. mechanical appurtenances - none I have been doing simple infusion mashes and mash in/out temperatures are in the correct ranges. I have tried mashing for 90 min. to overnight. Iodine says I am converted. Sparging takes ~45+ min. I recirculate the first 4 - 5 quarts of runnings. I will post a summary. Thanks, Laura Charlotte NC Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 08:43:21 -0400 From: Jim Daley <jgdaley at gw.dec.state.ny.us> Subject: Wet freezer I recently purchased a chest freezer for keg storage. I hooked up a temperature regulator and keep it at about 42 degrees F. Everything works great except that the inside of the freezer gets WET! Its not set cold enough to freeze, but does act as a giant condenser. I don't open it that much (once a week maybe), but there still is quite a bit of dampness inside it. On the bottom along the sides there is a little standing water. It smells kind of musty. Two questions: 1. What can be done to alleviate the problem? 2. Is the inside of the freezer a breeding ground for beer infection (e.g., when hooking up a keg that has been store in there for a while)? Thanks, Jim Daley Albany, New York jgdaley at gw.dec.state.ny.us Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 97 8:48:45 EDT From: Brent Irvine <brenirvi at enoreo.on.ca> Subject: Wood alcohol I noticed an article from one of the digest's subscriber's at UofT, and he mentioned wood alcohol. Over the past year or so, there have been problems in my area (north eastern Ontario) with illegal vodka with wood alcohol in it. Last spring four persons died, and just last week, another person was brought to hospital with severe symptoms of the poisoning. Can anyone clarify as to whether or not any of this insidious substance makes its way into our beautiful pastime of creating our custom beers or wines? Are there traces of it when we make each batch? If so, is there any harm for us, or is it in such minute quantities, that its concentration is harmless. Nobody seems to have these answers. Any doctors or brewers with PhD in micro who would be able to shed some light? Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 09:02:24 -0400 From: Wade Hutchison <whutchis at bucknell.edu> Subject: What about Anchor "Our Special Ale" Recipe >------------------------------ > >Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 14:02:14 -0700 >From: Chas Douglass <ChasD at Halcyon.Com> >Subject: Redhook Winterhook Recipe Request > >Redhook advertises Winterhook as a "christmas ale" (or was that "winter >ale"?, anyway) so I'm open to other suggestions as well, but I'd really >like a Winterhook clone. > >advTHANKSance > >Chas Douglass > On a related note, does anyone have a recipe, or even a good guess at the spices used, for the Anchor "Our Special Ale" that they do each year for Christmas. I'm ready this week or next to put up the christmas beer for this year, and I'd love to try something approaching the Anchor beer. whutchis at bucknell.edu Wade Hutchison, College Engineer Bucknell University, College of Engineering http://www.eg.bucknell.edu/~whutchis Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 9:18:32 -0500 From: jjb at vnf.com Subject: Oud Bruin Anyone? I'm thinking of trying to make an oud bruin style Belgian, sort of as a bri= dge on the path to brewing a faux lambic=2E Has anyone tried to brew one of these beers, or have any recipes they would care to share=2E I'm particularly interested in: (1) success (or necessity) of using any oak cask, (2) suitable microflora, and (3) blending=2E Thanks - --John Buchovecky (jjb at vnf=2Ecom) Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 07:37:46 -0700 From: David Johnson <dmjalj at inwave.com> Subject: Crystal vs. caramel Brewers, In reading Jim Busch's and Ken Schwartz' posts I am inspired to quote from someone I also admire. I have trouble understanding parts of this section of Noonan's "New Brewing Lager Beer" : "Crystal and Caramel malts are similar products, but they should not be considered interchangeable. Caramel malts have a higher moisture content, are not completely saccharified, and are not kilned to the point that the endosperm is entirely glassy." he goes on to describe the processing of both types. Does this mean that there is at least some starch in caramel malts and that they should be mashed? He then discusses CaraPils processing before going on :"'crystal' versions of the malt are completely saccharified during kilning. they both increase the sweetness, fullness, foam retention, and storage stability of beers without appreciably increasing the color." "Other caramel malts are treated similarly but are colored at higher temperatures-240 to275 degrees F (116to 135 dgrees C). Caramel malts as 5 to 15 percent of the grain bill give a caramel often raisenlike flavor and 'chewey' character to beers. Ascaramel malt color increases, bitterness and roastiness increase accordingly." "Caramel malts were traditionally used by continental lager brewers, wheras crystal malts were favored by British ale brewers. The distinctive complex flavors of caramel malts have there place in brewing, but unfortunately, modern maltsters are eschewing the production the production of crisper-flavored crystal malts in favor of the easier-to-process caramel malts. In fact, most modern maltings no longer make a distinction between caramel and crystal malts." This appears to be true reading Brewing Techniques recent Market Guide. There are few named "crystal" malts but then go on to describe themselves as caramel malts or describe a process that sounds more like caramel malts. Baird and Durst seem to do this. Paul's and Beeston seem to be among the few that may be producing real crystal. I don't believe that they are widely available on a homebrew level. So are we spinning our wheels here? "True crystal malts are completely saccharified in a...(discussion of process)...They give flavors that are crisper and cleaner than caramel malts; the lighter-colored crystal malts especially give less bitterness and pungency than caramel malts." Sorry for making a post that is largely quoting from someone else, but we all are "standing on the shoulders of giants." dave Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 09:54:26 -0400 From: "david dow" <dinkydav at ime.net> Subject: Lemon Weiss I nave just drank a great beer that I want to make better. I made a Hefe-weizen that came out just great! What I want to make now is a lemon weiss. I know that I need to add a lemon extract. What I don't is how much. If I add too much, it will over power the beer, not enough and it does nothing. Does anyone have an idea how much is enough? I could probably use real lemons, couldn't I? Any help will be appreciated. dinky dave Return to table of contents
Date: 29 Aug 1997 07:05:48 -0800 From: "Jim Hunter" <Jim.Hunter at quickmail.llnl.gov> Subject: Salvator Speaking of Paulaner Salvator, does any one have an all grain recipe for such? Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 10:51:33 -0400 From: "Ted Major"<tmajor at exrhub.exr.com> Subject: Re: hmm . . .) Close, but not quite on this one: > >After consuming a bucket or two of vibrant brew they called aul, or ale, the > >Vikings would head fearlessly into battle often without armor or even shirts. > > In fact, the term "berserk" means "bare shirt" in Norse, and eventually took > >on the meaning of their wild battles. "berserk" and berserker" are derived not from "bare shirt" but from "bear shirt," referring to a shirt made of bear hide. The shirt formed a totem for the warriors who were protected by the bear spirit (as well as the thick bear hide itself), and often in the sagas were actually transformed into bears. It relates to a folklore motif called by Panzer the "bear's son tale," which has to do with a hero who is descended from a bear. These heroes often are unpromising as youths and later perform great deeds in adulthood. The quintessential bear's son hero is Bothvar Bjarki of the Icelandic saga (literally "Bearson little bear"), and other heores associated with the bear son motif are Odysseus and Beowulf. now if I could just bring this discussion back to brewing . . . Thanks again to Jeff Renner for reintroducing Classic American Pilsener as a style. And speaking of adjuncts, I highly recommend a dose of corn in a Cream Ale, another classic American style. According to Wahl & Henius, at the turn of the century brewers used as much as 30% corn in the grist. I was mighty pleased with the cream ale I brewed last spring. Let's hear it for that great American ingredient, Maize! Like Jeff, I used yellow corn grits (essentially coarse corn meal). Unfortunately, they cost about $1 a pound in the grocery here in Goergia, as much as barley malt in the homebrew store, and a good bit more trouble. Does anyone have experience using hominy grits (which of course are much cheaper than yellow grits here in the South) in brewing? Ted Major Athens, Georgia tmajor at parallel.park.ga.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 08:08:10 -0700 From: "Darren W. Gaylor" <dwgaylor at pacifier.com> Subject: RE: Classic American Pilsner I heartily recommend brewing a Classic American Pilsner. Last spring I = brewed such a beer (thanks to some input by Jeff). It was excellent. = I, too, did a double mash with corn grits (actually a fun process) but = have used flaked maize in the past. =20 I'd like to thank those responsible for reviving a truly classic beer. = (Special thanks to Jeff Renner for convincing me to raise my sights a = little and not brew a lawnmower beer.) Darren W. Gaylor Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 10:37:04 -6 From: "Dave Draper" <ddraper at utdallas.edu> Subject: Req. for help from electrically hip HBDer(s) Dear Friends, This is a request for assistance from anyone who is comfortable with the electrical systems of refrigerators. My newly-acquired used brewing fridge appears to have died on me. The symptom is that, when attempting to plug it in, there is an immediate flash at the wall plug and the plug's built-in mini circuit breaker trips (thank goodness the plug has one of those). For the brief instant that this flash is happening, power does arrive at the fridge (I can hear the motor and see the inside light bulb light up). It ran fine for the first 4 or 5 days, then I found it dead with this symptom happening. I have verified that it is only the fridge that does this (other things run fine off the same plug). There is, I am pretty sure, nothing else on this circuit (it's the only plug in the garage) and in any case there have been no unusual loads placed on the house's electrical system for the time I have had the fridge. Although I have enough experience in things electrical from my lab work to be able to follow knowledgeable instructions, I don't have the confidence to get in there and start messing with things without having a better idea of what I am doing. Private email only, please, and many thanks for any assistance. Cheers, Dave in Dallas - --- *************************************************************************** David S. Draper, Geosciences, Univ Texas at Dallas, Richardson TX 75083 ddraper at utdallas.edu (commercial email unwelcome) WWW: hbd.org/~ddraper E-probe lab page: http://www.utdallas.edu/~ddraper/probe.html ...That's right, you're not from Texas... but Texas wants you anyway... Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 08:33:36 -0700 From: Dave Sapsis <DAVE_SAPSIS at fire.ca.gov> Subject: malts Regarding the recent thread on malts and their apparent needs for low temp protien rests, It is interesting to note that even Continental pils malts are highly modified in protien terms...the maltsters are doing much of the work that was formerly reserved for the mashtun, much to the dismay of some traditionalists. FWIW, I have noticed a significantly reduced body when holding both American and British malts for any time at all around 50C (122F). Sometimes this is a good thing, as I find more trouble with too much body in some styles I make in the warm months, than the opposite. In reviewing some data I have, I found an interesting malt source that is probably amongst the lowest prtien mod available (and from England of all places!): Crisp has a " Finest Pilsner Lager Malt" with a "typical analysis" of 39% STN -- still pretty high and probably not deserving of a peptidase rest. These malts are now available on the west coast, but I have only used their pale and crystal. I have a contact for the distributor if people are interested. What I wonder about is the specs on the 6-row pale that is being used in most of the huge breweries here in the states. In following up what Jim said regarding the similarity and differences in cara-malts, it gets even more confusing than that: Stamped on the bag of British Hugh Baird caravienne malt is a Lovibond range (29-37) and below that: "Product of Belgium". It is a short channel, but sheeesh! Kudos to Andy Walsh and Jim Lidill -- now i know why my American wheat beers (mit Tett) taste like Boddingtons ;-) David Sapsis Fire and Fuels Specialist CDF Fire and Resource Assessment Program 916.227.1338 dave_sapsis at fire.ca.gov Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 10:50:40 -0500 From: Rob Kienle <rkienle at interaccess.com> Subject: Beery Linguistic Origins On a recent trip to Goose Island Brewery here in Chicago, I noted a sign they have that claims that the term "Bridal" originates from the expression "Bride's Ale." According to the sign, at some point in the past (not sure when or where), the family of the bride would brew a special batch of ale to dispense at the wedding, and perhaps to sell afterwards in order to help defray the costs of the celebration. Can anyone out there verify the accuracy of this claim or shed any further insights into the details? - -- Cheers4beers, Rob Kienle Chicago, IL rkienle at interaccess.com Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 08:47:58 PDT From: "Rosenzweig,Steve" <Steve_Rosenzweig at wb.xerox.com> Subject: 7 gal Rubbermaid Mash Tun Last season I did 10 all grain batches on a stove top in a 5 gal pot with a JS easymasher. Worked great, much better efficiency than the two bucket method, and I like the temperature control the pot provided for a three step mash. Although I was always too lazy to use an insulating jacket to hold temps, rather stirring, checking temp, and firing up the stove every 15 minutes or so. Timing and temp holding got a little tight for the brews after March 17th, the birth of my first brewing assistant! Two things drove me to try out a new mash tun this season: not enough room in the 5 gal pot for much more than 12# of grain (and I'm too cheap to buy a bigger one!), and having a new 6 month old brewing assistant this season will take some time and attention away from my brew day. With the new mash tun I will likely stick to single temp infusions (at least at first), and not have to worry about temp fluctuations if I have to attend to the baby (great justification to go gadgeteering, eh?) I bought one of those new 7 gallon Rubbermaid/Home Depot coolers to convert into a mash tun, and I must say, converting it was easier than I thought! Here is a synopsis of my system for those interested. The plastic spigot comes right out by unscrewing the nut on the inside, leaving a rubber grommet around the hole. A 1/2 inch copper pipe fits somewhat snugly through this grommet, but not tight enough to convince me it wouldn't leak under mash conditions! I removed the grommet and replaced it with a rubber bung from a 5L mini-keg (after overcarbing many of my mini kegs, denting them beyond recognition, I have plenty bungs and stoppers left! - besides I graduated to 5 gal cornies since picking up a used beermeister anyway!) The 1/2 inch copper tube did fit through the hole of the rubber bung, but it is an awfully tight fit! (I've got the blisters on my hands to prove it - the key was in using a long piece of copper to leverage it in and then cut it off to size) I am somewhat concerned about the stress that this will cause on the plastic surrounding the hole, especially at mash temps, so we'll just have to wait and see how this will work. Worse comes to worse, I may have to use a close fitting with some rubber washers and nuts and rig up another way to connect to my spigot and manifold. I put a valve on the outside, 1/2 inch compression fit to 3/8 inch compression, with a 90 degree bend so with a short piece of 3/8 copper tube pointing down, I can just attach my drain hose and adjust the flow with the valve. My theory is that the valve is the same type you might use for a hot water supply, so it should be fine at mash temps, but again, experience will tell. On the inside I put a 1/2 inch copper manifold, using 90 degree elbows and tees to make roughly a square with one crossbeam in it. (No cheesy ascii art for me- you'll just have to imagine a theta!) The last step is to make the holes on the bottom of my manifold pipes. I will take one of two approaches here, either drill a series of small (1/16 - 1/32 ?) holes in the pipes of the manifold for the bottom, or I will make a series of cuts with the thinnest hacksaw blade I can find about 1/2 inch apart at an angle to the pipe about 1/8 - 1/4 way through the pipe, again along what will be the bottom. Question: Any pros or cons regarding which approach to take here? Does anyone strongly advocate either way, and why? I may just try both over a couple of clone batches to see if there is any difference I can tell, copper pipe isn't prohibitively expensive to experiment on! Since I can easily take this all apart for cleaning, I can also easily tinker with the design! Another possible improvement is to add a tee and a standpipe opposite the output such that I could underlet water straight to the bottom in the event of a stuck sparge . . . oooh I love tinkering! So this system should afford me a little more flexibility in my brew day due to the temperature stability, and my recipe selection since I can move upwards of 16-17# of grain. I'm still stuck on the stove top, at least until Xmas! Hopefully Santa will see that double burner circled in the Cabela's catalog! And one of these days I'll run across that perfect SS brewpot . . . Sorry for the length, hope this is useful for someone else thinking of creating their own mash tun. Any and all opinions, comments, or ranting is welcome - especially on the hole/cut issue! Stephen ps- thanks to all who resurrected, run and maintain the HBD! Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 11:09:41 -0700 From: smurman at best.com Subject: 122F/wheat rest/break in starters Regarding the 122F vs. 135F protein rest. There's a very good page at the IOB web-site discussing haze. One of their findings is that a 122F rest reduces the haze-forming proteins relative to a 135F rest. This was the case regardless of whether the malt was highly- modified or not. I've heard this from other sources, and one of the Charlies mentioned that a brewer friend of his also has this same result. OTOH, as others have mentioned, with modern malts there is usually very little benefit to including a 122F rest for reducing the (average) protein length. A 135F rest can be beneficial for reducing the HMWP to MMWP for better head stability and formation, replacing some of the MMWP that has been lost in the malting process. It seems to me it's a question of trying to remove the potential haze-forming proteins vs. trying to maximize the amount of MMWP in the wort. Which you choose will probably depend on the malt you're using, they style you're brewing, &c., &c. What would really help is if maltsters would give us some data to work with. George and Laurie Fix just released a book that deals with these very issues and how they relate to modern malts. Perhaps George could stop by and give us a preview of what they recommend? (Bueller? Bueller?) // Speaking of rest temperatures. There's been recent talk of hefeweizen yeast strains, but one thing that I don't think is stressed strongly enough is the inclusion of a rest near 110F when brewing a weizen beer. This is not a rest designed to reduce the pH of the mash, although it does have that added benefit, but rather it is a "glucan rest", for lack of a better term. A rest near 110F creates ferulic acid from malted wheat (and other malts as well??), which is one of the main components that the weizen yeast strain uses to create the banana and clove phenols representative of the style. Other yeast strains cannot convert ferulic acid into 4-vinyl-guaiacol (banana-clove flavor), but if you don't include a 110F rest, the ferulic acid won't be present, and your weizen yeast won't be able to perform the desired conversion either. I think some of the talk of the desirability of a high temperature ferment (near 70F) using these yeast strains in order to produce "enough phenols" for the style is the result of not using a 110F rest. I regularly ferment at 65F, and I get a wonderful hefeweizen flavor. // This last subject does not discuss botulism at all. Please read on anyway:) We've discussed canning starters at length. I take the last quart of wort that is left in my kettle, strain it through its' own wet hops, and then pressure can that to make my next starter. This gives me a hopped wort full of protein break material which should be ideal as a yeast starter environment (to my mind anyway). Recently, I've been wondering about just how much protein break material I'm dumping into my fermenter if I add this entire starter. I'm especially wondering because I'm going to try experimenting with Irish moss for a couple of batches. I'm also concerned because the pressure cooking *really* generates a lot of break material. Am I dumping a concentrated batch of protein break material into my fermenter, or is this just a "drop in the bucket"? Should this break material drop to the bottom of the fermenter, or will it distribute through the wort in some sort of molecular-chain matrix? Do others who use similar methods try to decant the wort from the break material when preparing a starter? If you've read this far, congratulations - you're a homebrew junkie. SM Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 13:45:30 -0500 From: jjb at vnf.com Subject: Re-cork Chimay/Affligem Bottles with Homebrew? Does anyone know whether it's possible to recork large Belgian bottles with homebrew=2E I'd like to reuse' em if possible=2E They're nice and th= ick for those high gravity brews=2E - --John Buchovecky (jjb at vnf=2Ecom) Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 11:50:34 -0700 (PDT) From: Steve Jackson <stevejackson at rocketmail.com> Subject: Re: Pete's beer tidbits Brian K. Dulisse posted material orginating fromthe Pete's Wicked people about several English words and phrases that supposedly have the origins in beer and/or brewing. I don't know about the validity of the others, but I know this one is false: > >In English pubs, ale is ordered by pints and quarts. So in old England, when > >customers got unruly, the bartender would yell at them to mind their own > >pints and quarts and settle down. It's where we get the phrase "mind your > >P's and Q's". Mind your P's and Q's is actually an old typesetting term. In the old days, type had to be set manually. Each letter was imprinted on a lead slug (can't remember the technical term anymore). Of course, the letters were mirror images of the printed form, since the ink was applied to the block of set type and the paper pressed against the block. "Mind your P's and Q's" referred to the fact that, in their mirrored form, a lower case p looks like a lower case q, and vice versa (the same problem applies with lower case b and d). Even though they look like each other on the type block, there are actually subtle differencs in the construction of the two letters (in most standard serif fonts, the diameter of the circle on the q is slightly bigger than the circle of the p), which would cause a document that used q's in place of p's to look funny. The cliche was used as a reminder to typesetters to keep use the proper letter. -Steve _____________________________________________________________________ Sent by RocketMail. Get your free e-mail at http://www.rocketmail.com Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 15:17:34 -0500 From: layton at sc45.dseg.ti.com (James R. Layton 972.952.3718 JLAY) Subject: storage temps Joe Shope wrote about flavor change in beer stored 4 weeks at 80-90F vs. same beer stored at 60-65F. Here's a guess: search old HBDs for "hot side aeration" or "hsa". There were lots of posts on this subject in years past. I've read that it can affect shelf life. Then again, I don't think you will find anyone saying that storing homebrew at 80-90F is a good thing to do. Even the finest beers will go down hill pretty fast if treated like that. I'll bet that the sorry state I find many import beers to be in is a result of warm storage in a shipping container on the boat ride over, followed by a few weeks of unrefrigerated ground transportation and warehouse storage. Then its the green bottles, sunshine, and fluorescent lights. The poor beer doesn't stand a chance even after it has been filtered and pasteurized. Having said that, I just purchased a six of Spaten octoberfest last week which was outstanding. I think the fresh stuff is coming in now. Jim Layton (Howe, TX) Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 16:33:52 -0400 From: Spencer W Thomas <spencer at engin.umich.edu> Subject: Michigan State Fair results Results from the 1997 Michigan State Fair homebrew competition can be found at http://realbeer.com/spencer/msf97 The competition drew 219 entries from 59 brewers. Best of show went to Jeff Renner for his American-style Pilsner, "Your Father's Mustache". =Spencer Thomas in Ann Arbor, MI (spencer at umich.edu) Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 97 09:23:41 -0700 From: brian_dixon at om.cv.hp.com Subject: Re: Mash temp at sparge >Subject: Mash temp at sparge > >There has been some discussion lately of the importance of keeping the >mash temperature high throughout the sparge in order to achieve good >extraction. This makes some sense to me but this past weekend I >inadvertently violated this practice. [snip] >grain and liquid. By this time the grain bed temp had fallen to 120-130F. >My sparge water was still hot but the runoff was not. In spite of all this >I got my usual 75-80 percent extraction rate. Any comments? > >John Wilkinson - Grapevine, Texas - jwilkins at imtn.dsccc.com I use an uninsulated plastic bucket with a Phil's Phalse bottom (same setup as you but a bucket instead of an Igloo cooler). My runoff temps are typically around 120-130 F as you mention, and I get 88% efficiency, sometimes better. Go figure! BUT, if the temperature drops below that at all, the sparge immediately slows and threatens to quit on me. The key is keeping the sparge water temperature between 170-175 F. Because of this, I intend to move to an insulated system like you, but certainly not because my extraction efficiency suffered. Brian PS: I sparge for about an hour and I also do a mash-out for 10 minutes at 165 F. These things help. (I do not do the George Fix 104 F rest, which also increases efficiency...but may some day). ....................................................................... Item Subject: WINMAIL.DAT Couldn't convert Microsoft Mail Message Data item to text at a gateway. Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 97 10:24:46 -0700 From: brian_dixon at om.cv.hp.com Subject: A.J. DeLange? Parts 3 & 4? Did anyone see parts 3 and 4 of AJ's 4-part series on water chemistry get posted? I saved off the first 2 parts, and I assume that AJ got busy and hasn't had a chance to post the other 2 parts ... but just in case I missed them, I wanted to ask for them from someone who DID catch them. TIA, Brian ....................................................................... Item Subject: WINMAIL.DAT Couldn't convert Microsoft Mail Message Data item to text at a gateway. Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 14:44:44 -0700 From: "Bryan L. Gros" <gros at bigfoot.com> Subject: hot liqour tank, new beer trend... Todd Ehlers <ehlers at mail.utexas.edu> wrote: >snip... >We then use a five gallon insulated soda-keg for a hot liquor tank--when >the mash temp has been reached and the steam isn't needed for the mash, we >remove the steam line and inject the steam into a full soda-keg, raising it >to sparge water temp. This way we don't need to use the kettle for a hot >liquor tank. ... >(The soda keg is insulated with a jacket made of wet suit material made by >a company called Below Forty. It was a little pricey ($25) but we've been >happy with it. It's obviously equally good at keeping a soda keg cold.) I use a GOTT for a hot liquor tank. Cheaper than a soda keg, and it comes insulated. With 7 gallon GOTTs available, now, all the better. *** I think I've noticed the next big thing in craft brewing.......... Copper beers! Red ales seem to be declining, and at my local pub earlier this week, I noticed two copper beers. A copper wheat and a copper ale. both from breweries in northern california. Anyone have a recipe for ....(just kidding) - Bryan gros at bigfoot.com Oakland, CA Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 19:59:59 -0400 From: elsworth at connix.com (John D Elsworth) Subject: Re: Overnight mashing summary Based on feedback (thanks Scott and Al) about my note last week about extended mashes, I wish to clarify a couple of points. While any lactobacillus present in the mash will be destroyed when the wort is boiled, any lactic acid (and associated sour taste) that it had formed before then will, of course, remain. See earlier note about likelihood of infection, though. Although you might, at first, expect the beer resulting from an extended mash to be thin because dextrins will be broken down over time by beta-amylase, this is not necessarily the case. At temperatures above 140F, alpha- and beta-amylases are not stable. Apparently at typical mash temperatures, beta-amylase is denatured within an hour, and alph-amylase within 2 hours. So even if the mash is extended the amount of dextrins formed may not drop off too much after 2 hours. Mash thickness, however, will have some bearing enzyme stability - enzymes are more stable in thicker mashes, I believe. So it seems, theoretically at least, that you could get a good full bodied beer with an extended mash. Any comments? Has anyone done a proper comparison of beers made with different mash times? Are there any other enzymes that contibute to saccrification? Cheers, John Elsworth Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 10:15:35 -0400 From: "Capt. Marc Battreall" <batman at reefnet.com> Subject: RE: Strike Water Temps In HBD2492 Bill from Glassboro, NJ asked about mash strike water temp calculation in regards to grain temp. Bill, There is a public domain program out there that does just what you want. It's called "Infusion Mash Temperature Calculator" written by Pat Anderson. I have a copy that I downloaded from The Brewerys' website. (I think that's where I got it). Go to The Real Beer Page and you can find it there. It's a neat little program and appears to be very accurate, at least in my experience. I use it's calculations and also compare the results with another piece of software and the differences are so small that you couldn't read them on the average thermometer anyway. Good Luck and Happy Mashing! Marc - -------------------------------------------------- Capt. Marc D. Battreall batman at reefnet.com Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 19:06:24 -0600 From: slamb at ghg.net (Sean Lamb) Subject: 1997 Dixie Cup Homebrew Competition web site The 1997 Dixie Cup will be held in Houston, Texas the weekend of 24 and 25 October, 1997 Entry deadline is 10 October Entry fee is $6 For more information, email me or see the Dixie Cup web pages at: http://www.ghg.net/slamb/dc14.html Sean Lamb One of the Happy Humanoids in Friendswood, TX http://www.ghgcorp.com/slamb Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 18:38:12 -0700 From: "Grant W. Knechtel" <GWK at hartcrowser.com> Subject: "Famous Ales of England" In HBD 2495 Randy in Modesto wrote (in part) about Pub draft cans: >In the US however, and especially off the beaten path, this >less-than-ideal packaging is as good as it gets. And it's a lot better than >the mega-swill we usually get. I don't actually disagree with Sheena, >but I am in the "it's better than nothing" camp. >BTW, If you have a Trader Joe's store near you, you may want to get >down there soon. They have an eight-pack of pint drafts called >"Famous Ales of England" for $8. Two each of Boddingtons Pub Ale >Draught, Fuggles Imperial Draught, Castle Eden Ale Draught, and >Flowers Original Draught. >Pretty decent, IMO. I was just finishing one of those 8-packs I got as a gift: consider this a review. Pub draft cans - they do make a nice creamy head on the beer. I had no trouble with them shooting all over the room, but was careful to have a large glass handy for the pour. I didn't try drinking from the can, which the directions said was also acceptable. The beer - well, except for the "Fuggles Imperial Draught" they all tasted very similar. The Fuggles also, except with noticeable Fuggles taste and slight Fuggles aroma. I noted a metallic taste to all the beers. I also note this when drinking Megaswill beers from a can. Bland, gassy and awful? Bland and gassy, yes, but not as much so as American Standard Lager and not awful at all. Comparable to Real Ale? Never. Would I buy this beer? If there was no choice between this and Budmilloors in cans, yes. If the Budmilloors was in bottles, I'd have to think about it. Price might enter in. If a decent microbrew was available, I'd buy that without reference to price. In my neck of the woods, good craft brew is about the same price. Good homebrew will always be my first choice. -Grant Neue Des Moines Hausbrauerei Des Moines, Washington Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 20:40:41 -0500 (CDT) From: Samuel Mize <smize at prime.imagin.net> Subject: Death of botulism and BATF Greetings, We've been having fun griping about the botulism and BATF/eisbock threads. I'd like to point out that what really killed them was someone actually going out, doing authoritative research, and posting real data. Neither shouting within the thread nor shouting about the thread had much impact. Also, I learned interesting and important homebrewing-related things from both threads. Nobody left angry or felt personally insulted at the end, as far as I could see. This is just worlds better than so many online forums. Congratulations, HBD!!! Sam Mize - -- Samuel Mize -- smize at imagin.net -- Team Ada Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 19:27:58 -0700 From: "Grant W. Knechtel" <GWK at hartcrowser.com> Subject: Fruit beer sweetness In HBD 2495 Chris asked about getting more blueberry flavor and more body in a fruit beer by adding dextrose before bottling. Adding additional highly fermentable sugar will not add fruit flavor (i.e. sweetness) unless you pasteurize or sterile filter. It will give you bottle bombs if added at bottling, will raise your alcohol if allowed to ferment out. At this point, you can learn to like tart beer, or add sugar after pouring. The tartness may moderate some during conditioning. You could try adding malto-dextrin at bottling, I haven't tried this and some maintain it to be worthless in adding sweetness (which would increase the perception of fruit). Your recipe looks like it had a fair amount of non-fermentable sugars. Next time, you could try mashing at higher temperature (say at 158), using less attenuative yeast, such as Wyeast 1338 (no affiliation, etc.) , or adding more fruit, in the neighborhood of 2 to 3 lbs per gallon. BTW, the beer sounds good (I like tart beer). -Grant Neue Des Moines Hausbrauerei Des Moines, Washington Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 30 Aug 1997 07:39:37 -0700 From: "Michael Kowalczyk" <mikekowal at megsinet.net> Subject: Wyeast 1272 vs. 1056 American Ale yeasts Mark Warrington writes: Can someone give me an idea of the difference in fermentation these two yeasts exhibit? I have read that 1272 is "fruitier and more highly flocculant" than the 1056. What will this do to a brown ale? I prefer 1272 because the higher flocculant qualities means my beers clear faster means I can drink them earlier and have to brew again faster (My kind of vicious circle!). I brewed 3 beers with 1272 and 4 beers with 1056. Fermentation temps around 68 - 73. I was real surprised that 1272 was not fruity. I'm looking at my notes, and all of the 1272 taste descriptions say "crisp". As a matter of fact, I had a beer made with this yeast recently that I found in a friends basement (he has more will power than I) and couldn't really remember which yeast I used. Whereas its pretty obvious when 1056 is used. The closest thing to a brown I brewed with this yeast is a porter. It turned out very well. The crisp taste and lack of "fruit" was perfect for the style I was shooting for. I brewed a brown with 1056 and wasn't happy with the fruit taste I get from 1056. Anyone know what commercial beers use 1272? Return to table of contents
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