HOMEBREW Digest #2495 Fri 29 August 1997

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		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com

  Re: When to add crystal and other specialty malts (brian_dixon)
  Guiness and nutrition (jared froedetrt)
  Classic American Pilsner (was Sam Adams clones) (Jeff Renner)
  Re:pH meters or ColorpHast? (Charlie Scandrett)
  Wyeast 1272 vs. 1056 American Ale yeasts (Mark Warrington)
  These Awful Things (Randy Erickson)
  re: Wheat Beer (Meercat)
  Re: Peristaltic Pump for RIMS (PBSys)
  Re: Natural Gas vs. Propane, CO (Art Steinmetz)
  hmm . . . ("Dulisse, Brian K [PRI]")
  Lids/caramalts/IPAs/122F (Jim Busch)
  Brainless in Botswana ("Dave Draper")
  Hop growing - tales from the backyard (Paul Sovcik)
  Salvator/Celis/starch ("Kerr, David")
  Nuttiness (Mark T A Nesdoly)
  122F Rest - some real world data (Charles Burns)
  re:cold break separation (Charles Burns)
  BJCP Training - Its FUN! (Charles Burns)
  Thanks (Glyn Crossno)
  storage temps (Joe Shope)
  Redhook Winterhook Recipe Request (Chas Douglass)
  Re: No-Sparge Gravity Prediction ("Bryan Cronk")
  Ornamental hops ("Don Van Valkenburg")
  Fruit Beer Question? (Christopher Tkach)
  starch in fermenter/Driving Miss DMS (Natalie Martina)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 27 Aug 97 11:21:21 -0700 From: brian_dixon at om.cv.hp.com Subject: Re: When to add crystal and other specialty malts >Subject: When to add crystal and other specialty malts > >Question for the "all grainers" out there: > >Should I be adding crystal, munich and other specialty malts during the >regular mash or is it better to add them during mash out ? It seems to me >that if they are added to the mash their starch would be converted to sugars >by the base malt's enzymes. Will the flavor stay behind or be lost ? OTOH if >I add at mashout then starch conversion will not take place and the wort will >end up with unconverted starch. Is this good or bad ? I am confused. What is >the HBD concensus ? > >Cheers >Ian Smith >isrs at rela.uucp.netcom.com Ian, I believe the concensus will be to add everything to the mash rather than adding them at the mash-out. Depending on which specialty malts you're talking about, especially crystals that are darker than 10-20 L or so and anything as dark as chocolate or darker, you _could_ add them at mash-out if you wanted too. The issue I can see with that is the affect on pH that these other grains have. If you add them to the mash, then add your salt additions to the mash and tune things to get the best pH (say 5.3), then you can be pretty sure that your boil pH and fermentation pH will be pretty darn close to perfect. If you set up your mash without the specialty grains and adjust the pH so that the enzymes in the mash are optimized, then add the specialty grains at mash-out, then you risk the boil pH being lowered too much and being less than optimal. Same goes for the fermentation pH. You might even end up making salt additions to the mash that would be inappropriate to the style because the pH that you were optimizing did _not_ show the affect of the specialty grains that are in the style that you are brewing. Since I brew mostly darker beers, this seems more of an issue to me. Brewing light ales and lagers that have small additions of specialty grains may allow you to add the specialty grains to the mash-out with less risk of imbalancing the pH in the boil and fermentation. Brian ....................................................................... Item Subject: WINMAIL.DAT Couldn't convert Microsoft Mail Message Data item to text at a gateway. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 14:53:18 -0400 From: jared froedetrt <froedter at pilot.msu.edu> Subject: Guiness and nutrition Here's something i recieved in my mailbox from a friend. Taken from Q&A in NEW SCIENTIST magazine: Q. I have heard that it is possible to live on Guinness and milk alone. Is this true, or even partially true? A. This is not quite true. Guinness does contain many vitamins and minerals in small quantities, but is lacking vitamin C, as well as calcium and fat. So, to fulfil all of your daily nutritional requirements you would need to drink a glass of orange juice, two glasses of milk, and 47 pints of Guinness. _/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/\ Jared Froedtert \ froedter at pilot.msu.edu | Lansing, MI / \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_/ Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 15:33:09 -0400 From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu> Subject: Classic American Pilsner (was Sam Adams clones) In HBD 2489, Bob Fesnire (Dgofus at aol.com) of Pottstown, PA didn't ask the question I herein answer: > >I am 8 months into my homebrewing career and seeing that fall is slowly >approaching, I am preparing a wish list of beers to brew. I would like to >tackle a few lager type brews this winter. Any help, suggestions or >guidlines? I enjoy Sam Adams lager and would like a recipe for that. I also >likew Marzen-Fest brews and would like to try. Any recipes would be very >helpful. Can anyone reccomend good recipe books? What about the various >brewing Magazines? Thanks in advance. Private E-mail OK. Since you're willing to tackle a lager, how about brewing a really great style that is truly a historic one, not just Jim Koch's grandfather's pretend one (not that SA isn't a nice lager). Specifically, a Classic American Pilsner, which is what German and Bohemian brewers started making when they arrived here in the last century and were faced with different ingredients, most especially high protein barley. The most fundamental difference between CAP and European classic pilsners is CORN, about 20-25%. That's right, I am advocating using an adjunct. I know that most homebrewers, especially in the beginning, want to make something completely different from commercial American mega-brews, and this means strong, dark, bitter and all malt. But this is a great style, and American lagers were all more or less this until they began to be watered down post-WWII. Since I posted the praise of CAP in HBD #1687 (3/23/95) and wrote an article in Brewing Techniques (Sept/Pct '95), this has become an AHA recognized style, thanks to the efforts of Pete Garafalo, Del Lansing, George Fix and others, and it has been doing well in competitions* (againsts other classic Pilsners - German and Bohemian). I still get an unsolicited fan letter (from fans of the beer, not of me) every couple weeks or so from someone who has just brewed it and has become another enthusiastic convert. My original recipe for "Your Father's Mustache" is in Cat's Meow at http://brewery.org/brewery/cm3/recs/02_41.html. I have since modified it to a higher hopping level (low to mid 30's) and by using Hallertauer and/or Saaz for first wort hopping (FWH) and late additions, all of which are historically accurate. Being a glutton for punishment, I also use corn grits, which I mash separately with ~30% of the corn's weight of malt, then boil 75 minutes and add to the main malt which has been resting at 40C, then heat directly to 60C for 30 minutes, then heat to 70C for 30 minutes before mashing out. Flaked corn is much easier and is also authentic. While I used Yeast Culture Kit Co. New Ulm yeast (perhaps Wyeast Am. lager is the same?), I have had fine examples brewed with other lager yeasts. I still like Cluster hops for bittering. Some character seems to remain, which is also authentic. I tried FWH with Cluster and got a "black currant" flavor which I disliked. * Post script - Since I wrote the above last week (but never got around to sending it), my lastest iteration of "Your Father's Mustache" (described above) took Best of Show in the 219 entry Michigan State Fair. I say this not to blow my own horn (well, maybe a little) but rather to try to encourage more brewers to try this great style. Jeff -=-=-=-=-=- Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan c/o nerenner at umich.edu "I have found that alcohol taken in sufficient quantity produces all the effects of drunkenness." Oscar Wilde (1854-1900), Irish author, playwright and wit. Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 07:41:01 +1000 From: Charlie Scandrett <merino at squirrel.com.au> Subject: Re:pH meters or ColorpHast? Ian Smith asks >Should I invest in a PH meter or just use the ColorPhast papers ? Does >anyone have any advice/experience ? Which one doesn't have any circutry or probes that degrade, which one can be dropped and is already calibrated, which one can be bought in only the range you need (say 4 to 8) and which one can be used easily and accurately by a reasonably intelligent Rhesus monkey? BTW: the reference temp on the packet is important, the accuracy will be +or- 0.2. Ask yourself, "if I was 0.2 off the ideal target in pH, would I correct?" Not bloody likely, so 0.2 accuracy will be enough. Never buy cheap ones, ColorpHast is a good brand. Charlie (Brisbane, Australia) Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 17:56:39 +0000 From: Mark Warrington <warringt at erols.com> Subject: Wyeast 1272 vs. 1056 American Ale yeasts Can someone give me an idea of the difference in fermentation these two yeasts exhibit? I have read that 1272 is "fruitier and more highly flocculant" than the 1056. What will this do to a brown ale? - -- - -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Mark Warrington warringt at erols.com ***WARNING*** Pursuant to US Code of Federal Regulations Title 47 Section 64.1200, any and all unsolicited commercial E-mail sent to this address is subject to a download and archival fee in the amount of US$500. Criminal penalties may also apply. E-mailing denotes acceptance of these terms. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 20:16:57 -0700 From: Randy Erickson <RANDYE at mid.org> Subject: These Awful Things Sheena McGrath, CAMRA member, urges us to avoid widgeted draft brews because they're bland, gassy, and awful. I admire CAMRA and envy a country that has an institution such as real ale to preserve. And when I was in the UK last year, I sought out real ale whenever I could. In the US however, and especially off the beaten path, this less-than-ideal packaging is as good as it gets. And it's a lot better than the mega-swill we usually get. I don't actually disagree with Sheena, but I am in the "it's better than nothing" camp. BTW, If you have a Trader Joe's store near you, you may want to get down there soon. They have an eight-pack of pint drafts called "Famous Ales of England" for $8. Two each of Boddingtons Pub Ale Draught, Fuggles Imperial Draught, Castle Eden Ale Draught, and Flowers Original Draught. Pretty decent, IMO. Cheers -- Randy in Modesto Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 22:33:34 -0700 From: Meercat <steveq at imagina.com> Subject: re: Wheat Beer In Digest #2494 Kevin MacRae asked the following: > >A few questions: >1. Was swirling the 3056 batch a good idea? > Since you are fermenting in a carboy, you can assume that there was a layer of CO2 on the top of the krauesen and swirling the batch should not have hurt it at all. >2. Before swirling the carboy, was the 3056 batch > in good shape (even though I saw no bubbling)? > Not really sure what shape it was in but I would assume it was going okay. That must have been a really think head of krauesen on it though 8) >3. I refuse to worry about introducing nasties into > the brew by collapsing the krausen, but is it > a valid concern? > I doubt very much if you introduced any nasties into the brew by collapsing the krauesen. Actually, you might have gotten some hop resins back in but if it took back off again like you said then they would probably be deposited back into the gunk again anyway. Not to worry I am sure. >4. What happened? > Can't answer this one 8) Steve - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Steve <<Meercat>> Quarterman - Homebrewer & Cybergolfer Homebrewing homepage - http://zymurgy.dm.net/ Homebrewing chats - irc.dm.net:6667 #zymurgy Channel Fridays at 10p Eastern Personal HomePage - http://www.dm.net/~steveq/ ICQ UIN 109308 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 07:48:33 -0400 From: PBSys at softhome.net Subject: Re: Peristaltic Pump for RIMS Peristaltic pumps will work fine. My question would be if 1 qt. per minute would be enough flow, espescially if you had to pump up several feet. Most RIMS use pumps that pump at 5 gal per min at 0' head As to not having to be in contact with the pump head - Why would that make a difference? You will still boil the wort after the mash. The real negative is the cost. Most I've seen are in the 300 to 500 $ range Bob PBS URL http://www.wp.com/hosi/pbscat.html Brew Systems, Maxichiller & SS Hopback Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 07:54:00 -0400 From: Art Steinmetz <asteinm at pipeline.com> Subject: Re: Natural Gas vs. Propane, CO >Don't discount carbon monoxide as another problem requiring ventilation. I >brew in a 2-1/2 car garage and use three propane fired Metal Fusion >Products (Cajun) ring burners...the CO level reached three digits inside of ten minutes >and kept climbing. Even with the garage doors open six inches, I still get >dangerous double digit levels. I use a SABCO RIMS fitted for natural gas. in a basement room. I have a Nighthawk CO monitor. When I start a burn the CO level spikes up to 50-60 ppm and then drops to 30-40. This is with a modest size ceiling fan venting to the outside and the room door open. According to the brochure 50ppm is the max "continuous safe exposure level." The alarm goes off if >100 is reached. With the door closed and the fan off I can quickly trigger an alarm. BTW, IMHO the SABCO provided jet burners aren't appropriate for the lower pressure of natgas since anything less than wide open or more than one burner on at a time creates a yellow candle flame. - -- Art asteinm at pipeline.com Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 08:59:55 -0400 From: "Dulisse, Brian K [PRI]" <BDulisse at prius.jnj.com> Subject: hmm . . . got this from a friend, thought i'd pass it along. i'm pretty skeptical . . . - ---------- > >Courtesy of Pete's Wicked Ale.... > > > >It was the accepted practice in Babylonia 4,000 years ago that for a month > >after the wedding, the bride's father would supply his son-in-law with all > >the mead he could drink. Mead is a honey beer, and because their calendar > >was lunar based, this period was called the "honey month" - or what we know > >today as the "honeymoon". > > > >Before thermometers were invented, brewers would dip a thumb or finger into > >the mix to find the right temperature for adding yeast. Too cold, and the > >yeast wouldn't grow. Too hot, and the yeast would die. This thumb in the > >beer is where we get the phrase "rule of thumb". > > > >In English pubs, ale is ordered by pints and quarts. So in old England, when > >customers got unruly, the bartender would yell at them to mind their own > >pints and quarts and settle down. It's where we get the phrase "mind your > >P's and Q's". > > > >Beer was the reason the Pilgrims landed at Plymouth Rock. It's clear from > >the Mayflower's log that the crew didn't want to waste beer looking for a > >better site. The log goes on to state that the passengers "were hasted > >ashore and made to drink water that the seamen might have the more beer". > > > >After consuming a bucket or two of vibrant brew they called aul, or ale, the > >Vikings would head fearlessly into battle often without armor or even shirts. > > In fact, the term "berserk" means "bare shirt" in Norse, and eventually took > >on the meaning of their wild battles. > > > >In 1740 Admiral Vernon of the British fleet decided to water down the navy's > >rum. Needless to say, the sailors weren't too pleased and called Admiral > >Vernon, Old Grog, after the stiff wool grogram coats he wore. The term "grog" > >soon began to mean the watered down drink itself. When you were drunk on > >this grog, you were "groggy," a word still in use today. > > > >Many years ago in England, pub frequenters had a whistle baked into the rim > >or handle of their ceramic cups. When they needed a refill, they used the > >whistle to get some service. "Wet your whistle," is the phrase inspired by > >this practice. > > > >In the middle ages, "nunchion" was the word for liquid lunches. It was a > >combination of the words "noon scheken," or noon drinking. In those days, a > >large chunk of bread was called lunch. So if you ate bread with your > >nunchion, you had what we still today call a luncheon. Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 10:04:38 -0400 (EDT) From: Jim Busch <busch at eosdev2.gsfc.nasa.gov> Subject: Lids/caramalts/IPAs/122F Regarding boiling with or without lids. Once you obtain a good hard boil it is highly desirable to boil without the lid. Condensation of the water vapor needs to be prevented from returning to the boil kettle. It does not taste good and contains all types of harsh compounds that one does not want in the wort. <To all the micro brewers out there... Don't be afraid, it's ok to use hops! I have yet to hear someone tell me that Victorys HopDevil IPA is underhopped! In fact I hear it compared with other aggressive IPAs including Anderson Valley and Bear Republics. <From: "David R. Burley" <Dave_Burley at compuserve.com> <Subject: 122F hold Dave, the need for a 122F rest is pretty much gone. I know several Bavarian brewmasters with Weihenstephan Diploms who routinely dough in around 132-135F with German pils malts in the hope of retaining some minimum degree of head retention. Ill stick with the opinions and practices of Diploms and Prof Narziss on this one. I also think you should go back and read Fix's posts on this subject, in particular his 40/60/70C mash program. Or better yet, get some German Pils malz (Durst and Weyermann are good examples) and do a few pilot brews using a 15-30 min rest at 122F on one and a 15-30 min rest at 132F on the other. BTW, I have a two part series on this subject running in the current and next issue of Brewing Techniques. <Can anyone explain the difference (if any) between the Belgian caramel malts (CaraVienne, CaraMunich, etc) and say British crystal malt of similar color? <I assume that different base malts are used, but are different processes <used, or are they pretty much the same animal? For example, if I made two <ales using identical base malt, but in one I used 60L crystal and in the <other I used CaraMunich, what differences between the finished beers might I <expect? Cara-, Crystal and caramel all refer to the same type of malting process, so the same type of color malts are made. The differences arise from the source of the barley, many US caramel malts originate from 6 row barley but some maltsters are now making 2 row caramel malts. Other differences arise from the genetic type of barley grown and the regional effects of climate and soil on the barley. Other differences arise from the culture of malting in each county. Be sure to get good numbers on lovibond/SRM for each type of malt and experiment away. So while each is similar you can find unique differences in the finished beer. Prost! Jim Busch Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 09:23:19 -6 From: "Dave Draper" <ddraper at utdallas.edu> Subject: Brainless in Botswana Dear Friends, Thanks to all who gently reminded me of probably the most important reason to choose to remain lidless: allowing DMS to escape the boiler. I *knew* that, really, I did. Really. Ken S. asks, what if there were no rhetorical questions? To which I can only respond "Apathy? Who cares about apathy?" Cheers, Dave in Dallas - --- ***************************************************************************** Dave Draper, Dept Geosciences, U. Texas at Dallas, Richardson TX 75083 ddraper at utdallas.edu (commercial email unwelcome) WWW: hbd.org/~ddraper Beer page: http://hbd.org/~ddraper/beer.html ...we are usually at the mercy of gravity. ---A.J. deLange Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 09:02:20 -0500 From: Paul Sovcik <pjs at uic.edu> Subject: Hop growing - tales from the backyard I have finally started my hop harvest from my second and third year hop plants, and I thought I might relate my experiences to those who are considering hop farming. I started this a few years ago and was unable to get much of the information I needed (even with the help of the net), so maybe this post will help someone out there.... I have three hop plants, a Fuggle, Cascade and an Eroica. All of these are planted against a six foot high wooden fence, with a trellis-like top occupying the top 12 inches of the fence. I was unsure how the plants would do on such a low fence, but my yard/wife simply wouldnt support 15 foot high hop poles. The Cascade is in full sun, the Fuggle and Eroica get sun 60-70% of the day. Fertilization and watering were spotty (at least by me), but we had a good amount of rain this summer, so I wasnt worrying. To survive, these plants would need to be low-maintainence plants. The only care they recieved was for me to weave the new growth horizontally along the top part of the fence every few days so the plant wouldnt keep growing up without support and eventually snap the bines (which happened once during a period of extremely fast growth). The results? A huge supply of hops from the Cascade plant - presumably related to the fact that it is in full sun. I have harvested half the plant or less, and already have a Playmate cooler full of cones. The Fuggle has not produced the same amount, but it looks like at least half the harvest of the Cascade. The Eroica has not been much of a producer at all, but this is probably because I have been discriminating against it from the start since I planted it too closely to the Fuggle and I would rather have Fuggle than Eroica hops at harvest. Problems? Well, the Cascade plant has some strange disease/parasite that has been marching up it, attacking the old growth first and causing the leaves to turn brown/rust color and die. The tips of the scales on the older cones are affected too, I think. I have no idea what this could be - my books dont give much help. My other problem is drying these cones on an industrial (to me) scale. I am going to pick every few days and spread them on screens in my back shed to dry. I guess I will be packaging in Ziplock bags, since my old method of baby jars will exceed my supply of baby jars by quite a bit! Hope this helped those of you who are botanically challenged and who are vertically challenged in your garden. If a doof like me can grow hops, anyone can. Also, if anyone in the Chicago area wants an Eroica plant, Ill be happy to dig it up for you! Fuggle and Cascade rhizomes are also yours for the taking! -paul Paul Sovcik Western Springs, IL PJS at uic.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 10:47:18 -0400 From: "Kerr, David" <David.Kerr at ummc.ummed.edu> Subject: Salvator/Celis/starch Nathan asks: "...What contributes to that beautiful nuttiness in Salvator?" Decoction mash - or do they pressure cook? ;-) and ..."my impression from posts here is that Pierre uses malted wheat in Celis White. Any truth to this? " Look at http://www.celis.com/beer/beer.html for some good info - 50% raw Texas winter wheat is used. Eric Fouch writes: "*Never* do you want to let starches get into the fermenter] I'm taking a chance using the "N" word" Never except when brewing pLambic, Wit, etc. - they can benefit from unconverted starches by providing food for lactic acid producing bacteria. Dave Kerr "Be good and you will be lonely" - Mark Twain Return to table of contents
Date-warning: Date header was inserted by mail.usask.ca From: Mark T A Nesdoly <mtn290 at mail.usask.ca> Subject: Nuttiness Hello all, Nathan asks about nuttiness in Salvator in HBD #2494. I don't know how it's achieved in Salvator, but I can tell you how to achieve it yourself. I just finished reading Ray Daniels' book _Designing Breat Beers_ (excellent read, BTW). In his chapter covering porters, he listed a couple of vague recipes from the early 1800s that caught my eye. Their major ingredients were pale, amber and brown malt. He also included a step-by-step "how to" in order to create your own amber & brown malt. So I brewed a batch of brown porter, with amber & brown malt each making up about 30% of the grist. When I was finished grinding the grain, I was overwhelmed by the smell of... peanut butter! While I was mashing, again, the smell of peanut butter! The wort tasted fantastic; I can't wait until it's done fermenting. If you're interested, here's the directions to make amber & brown malt: Spread pale malt to a depth of 1/2" to 3/4" in a cookie sheet. I can fit about 3 lbs on my cookie sheet. Roast the malt accordingly (it's not necessary to stir the grain; I didn't, and the roast was very consistent throughout the pan): Amber malt: 230 F 45 minutes 300 F 45 - 50 minutes You know you're done when the colour inside a few cut-open grains is uniformly "light buff". I have no idea what colour "buff" is, but that's the way that Ray Daniels puts it. Mine looked beige. Brown malt: Same procedure as for amber malt, then: 350 F 30 minutes You know you're done when the inside of the grains looks like the colour of the lighter shades of brown wrapping paper. - -- Mark Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 28 Aug 97 09:43 PDT From: cburns at egusd.k12.ca.us (Charles Burns) Subject: 122F Rest - some real world data Dave B. responds to (the other) Charley on 122F rest: (the other charley says): >Actually I criticise the suggestion that it's a worthwhile rest at all. >I'd recommend you obliterate it from your library before children or >other innocents see it. (dave b. says) Well, Charley, I would like to see the evidence from which you formed your opinion, since most of the commercial brewing world, as far as I know, and all of the authors I know of say that a 122F(50C) rest is suggested and is practiced. (Charley b(me)) says: I went over to the local brewpub yesterday and had lunch with a friend and spent a good 15 minutes discussing this issue with the brewer. Bill makes excellent beers, has the state and national ribbons to prove it in addition to a thriving brewpub. I went at the question a roundabout way and asked him about chill haze. He said that for both his "Big, But Blonde" and "Sloughouse Pale Ale" (both Cal State Fair winners) employ at 120F rest for 15-20 minutes before boosting to sacharification temps. He uses 100% domestic malts in these two beers, keeping the grain bills very simple. They are both light in body, but have plenty to hold up the hops and alcohol. As I stated the other day, I fooled around with 135F rest and it worked ok, but I didn't see a huge benefit. My next light ale will use a 120F for 15-20 minutes. I may even go buy some domestic pale ale (I normally use English) malt to try it. Anyway, Bill said he did have a slight chill haze problem until he added that 120F rest. So, works great in theory, but will it work in reality? Charley (making a barleywine this weekend) in N. Cal. Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 28 Aug 97 09:44 PDT From: cburns at egusd.k12.ca.us (Charles Burns) Subject: re:cold break separation Jorge Blasig (in hbd2494) asks about separating trub from wort in the kettle. Here's what works for me: After cooling the wort down to less than 80F (my ale target anyway) swirl the chiller around in the cool wort to form a whirlpool. Swirl as fast as you can without sloshing the wort out of the kettle. Then pull out the chiller, cover the kettle and let it sit for at least 10 minutes. I ususally let mine sit for 20 minutes while I do cleanup, get yeast ready and finish up with sanitation. After the wort sits for a while, you'll find all the trub and hop spooge in a pile in the middle of the kettle bottom. Then just syphon from the edges working the tip of the racking cane down the side of the kettle till you get to the bottom. In my case there's always 1.5 to 2 quarts of gunk left at the bottom. I let this sit overnight outside (covered) where its cool. The next morning I pour this through a very fine strainer into a quart jar. This becomes my starter wort for future brews. I stick in the fridge and when I need it, I reboil it for a few minutes (no botulism, ecoli or ebola), chill and pitch the starter pack. By the way, your beer should be fine as long as you don't leave in the primary with all that trub for any longer than it takes to finish primary fermentation. Rack to a secondary when it settles down. Charley - --------------------------------------------------------------- Charles Burns, Director, Information Systems Elk Grove Unified School District cburns at egusd.k12.ca.us, http://www.egusd.k12.ca.us 916-686-7710 (voice), 916-686-4451 (fax) Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 28 Aug 97 10:09 PDT From: cburns at egusd.k12.ca.us (Charles Burns) Subject: BJCP Training - Its FUN! I really look forward to our monthly Homebrew Club meetings. We do a little business, have a raffle or two and then get down to serious stuff - evaluating and tasting the style of the month, both commercial and homebrew examples. Now imagine doing just the fun part (evaluating and consuming) and doing it every week! Last night I hosted the first of 10 meetings of our study group for the next 10 weeks. I imagined a boring night of memorizing styles, history, ingredients. Boy was I wrong! Our study group leader expects us to do that boring stuff on our own time and come prepared to dive right in to serious evaluations. Well, sort of serious. I heard more off color humor last night in two hours than I've heard in the last two years. So, what did I learn on my first night? Its good to host the meetings so you don't have to drive home afterward. We did light lagers last night and we must have sampled 9 different ones. Without a doubt, Pilsener UrQuell stood out from all of them. I know, that won't help me judge but it sure was a great beer. All the beers from Germany seem to come in green bottles, while American ones are all brown. Just never noticed that before. And I learned my nose needs LOTS of training. Of all the judging criteria, aroma must be the most difficult and most subjective. I guess the funniest part was when we found out Brian, the study group leader, is slightly allergic to hops! Every time he sniffed a hoppy beer he let out a little sneeze. Brian is our human hop detector! Well, its a tough job (judging) but somebody's got to do it, right? I really enjoyed the meeting with Brian, Brian and Beth and look forward to the next 9 weeks. I may not take the test or I may not pass it, but by gawd, this is really going to be fun! Charley (in training) Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 12:40:53 -0500 From: Glyn Crossno <Crossno at novell2.tn.cubic.com> Subject: Thanks It took awhile, but finally the first all grain batch. Other than not having enough hands and one hand having blisters from cracking 20 lbs. of grain on the homemade mill. The rectangular cooler with slotted copper manifold worked well. Gravity was a little low, which I contribute that to the mill and my batch sparge technique. Both of which will be better next time. Thanks, Glyn Estill Springs, TN Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 01:55:08 +0000 From: jshope at bioserver.vsb.usu.edu (Joe Shope) Subject: storage temps Brethren, My brewing partner and I recently brewed an IPA. After bottling we split the beer and each took 1 case. My beer is stored in my basement (60-65F) and his at his house (80-90F). The beer is now 4 weeks old (born/bottled on 7/27/97) and while mine is intense and fresh my partner's has an off taste to it. Since there was no selection in the bottling process I have concluded that the storage temperature must be the cause of the flavor change. I did look at a sample under a microscope and didn't find any "nasties". We drank a couple of my bottles and he said they were not even close to the flavor of his. My questions are: 1.) Has anyone else experienced warm temperatures causing deteriation of flavor? 2.) Is there a temperature at which this begins to occur? 3.) Is there any data on temperature / flavor? I searched through the old digests and found similar questions, but no responses to them. Joe Shope Head Brewer / Bottle Washer Apostate Brewing, Co Cache Valley, UT Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 14:02:14 -0700 From: Chas Douglass <ChasD at Halcyon.Com> Subject: Redhook Winterhook Recipe Request I've searched both Cat's Meow and the HBD archive and haven't found one. Does anyone have one they would share? I'm an extract brewer, but I'm comfortable converting recipes, so I'll take whatever you might have. Redhook advertises Winterhook as a "christmas ale" (or was that "winter ale"?, anyway) so I'm open to other suggestions as well, but I'd really like a Winterhook clone. advTHANKSance Chas Douglass Return to table of contents
Date: 28 Aug 1997 16:35 CDT From: "Bryan Cronk" <bcronk at nortel.ca> Subject: Re: No-Sparge Gravity Prediction To Charles Burns' question: My plan is to take only the first runnings and make only 2.5 to 3 gallons of finished beer. Question is, how do I predict the gravity of first runnings?" Ken Schwartz replies: Predicitng OG for no-sparge and batch-sparge recipes is not much different than for "normal" recipes, you just need to think about how much sugar you're getting into how much volume of water. [stuff deleted] The idea now is to divide the *total points* by the *total volume* to get specific gravity. Your total points (i.e., total sugar) stays fixed; the more volume you have (via sparging or straight dilution, for example), the lower your SG, but it's the same *amount* of sugar. - -------------------- This would be true if you assume that you will capture all of the sugar that's in the mash in the first runnings. However, this isn't the case at all. If it were, there would be no need to sparge - just take the first runnings, add water, and boil. In order to determine how much sugar you left in the mash kettle, I'd say some imperical study is in order. This doesn't help you in estimating your O.G. unless you brew another beer first, but I'd suggest that the S.G. of the first runnings (normalized) as a percentage of the total S.G. (again, normalized based on some given volume) is a constant, providing you are using the same ratio of mash water to grain, and you drain all of the mash water. Once you know this constant, you can apply it to any beer. Of course, the caveat is that I may be all wrong about this, but hey, it sounds good. Cheers, Bryan Cronk Raleigh, NC Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 97 00:32:47 UT From: "Don Van Valkenburg" <DONVANV at classic.msn.com> Subject: Ornamental hops Regarding the recient thread on ornamental hops -- it is possible they could be usable for brewing. Here is something I posted a while back on two common ornamentals. Sunbeam was developed and registered as an ornamental hop by Al Haunold (recently retired) who at Corvallis, Oregon, developed many hops currently in use today; Mt. Hood, Ultra, Crystal, Willamette just to name a few. Sunbeam was registered with the USDA as an ornamental hop, along with its sister hop Bianca. However, the literature also says that it could be used for brewing purposes. Here are some excerpts from the registration that was filed with the USDA: "Sunbeam and Bianca originated from a cross made by geneticist Alfred Haunold in 1990 on the diploid virus-free selection Saazer 38 (USDA #21522) with a tetraploid European-type aroma male (USDA #21617M)." Both Sunbeam and Bianca are diploids, which supports the assumption of open pollination. "Sunbeam has bright colored red stems throughout the growing season, which makes it particularly attractive in contrast to its yellow lemon-colored foliage. It is a female hop which matures early to medium early (about Aug. 25 in W. Oregon) with medium low yield potential. The cones are of medium size and yellowish green. Sunbeam's quality characteristics, largely inherited from the Saazer mother, are 4-5% alpha acids, 2.5 % beta acids, a cohumulone content of 36 percent, and an oil content similar to that of Saazer (about 1-1.2 ml/100g)." "Sunbeam and Bianca were observed as single plants for three years in an aroma breeding nursery near Corvallis, Oregon where they grew vigorously in early spring and reached the top of the trellis (5.5 meters) at approximately the same time as other seedlings or commercial cultivars growing nearby. Their foliage remained brilliantly yellow throughout the spring and early summer but showed some burning in mid- to late summer in direct sunlight, brobably due to insufficient protection by reduced chlorophyll pigmentation in the leaves. in semi-shade or in the greenhouse, under simulated semi-shaded conditions, leaves remained attractive and undamaged throuhout the growing season." Hope this is helpfull. Don Van Valkenburg DONVANV at MSN.COM Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 23:01:44 -0300 From: Christopher Tkach <tkach at ctron.com> Subject: Fruit Beer Question? Hi All- I just finished racking a blueberry ale into the tertiary fermentor. I measured the SG and it was at 1.010, and when I tasted it, it was a bit sour, not an infection sour, but a blueberry sour, which I'm assuming came from the blueberries, it does have a slight blueberry flavor but its masked by the sourness that is present. So I was thinking about adding some dextrose before bottling to help raise the SG a bit and maybe bring the blueberry taste to the front perhaps, while masking the sourness a bit. Has anyone attempted this with any success? My recipe is below...any help would be appreciated. - Chris For 5.0 gal... 4 lbs 2-Row Klages (MASH) 0.5 lbs Crystal 10L (German Light) (MASH) 0.5 lbs Wheat Malt (MASH) 0.5 lbs Cara-Pils Dextrine (MASH) 3 lbs Light Dry Malt Extract (EXTRACT) 0.5 lbs Crystal 50L (English) (MASH) 1 oz Cascade 3.3% BOIL 60 minutes 0.5 oz Willamette 4.8% FINISHING 5 minutes 1 tsp Irish Moss 1 pkg Wyeast 1007 German Ale (stepped up w/ starter) 1.0 lbs Frozen Blueberries (handpicked, steeped 15min at end of boil) 3.25 lbs Defrosted Blueberries (handpicked, added to secondary) Infusion mash at 154F (no protein rest, no mash out, although it did stick!) OG = 1.056 SG = 1.017 (when racked to secondary) Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 22:30:16 +0000 From: Natalie Martina <nmartina at mail.utexas.edu> Subject: starch in fermenter/Driving Miss DMS Eric.Fouch at STC001 begs me to respond: > Ian asks about when to add specialty malts. I'm sure you'll get lots of > responses, but since I'm already here- *Never* do you want to let starches get > into the fermenter] I'm taking a chance using the "N" word, and maybe > somebody will find an example to the contrary, but 'till then, I'll > reiterate, NEVER let starch get into the fermenter. In lambic brewing a kind of backwards decoction mash called a "turbid" mash is used to extract starch from the mash. This starch makes it to the fermenter and serves to nourish slower-growing/later appearing bugs in the long lambic ferment, since the starch is not utilized by the first rounds of fermentation. ********************* I have always wanted to comment on the "vigorous boil to drive off DMS" concept, and since it has been brought up again, I will. Speaking as someone who has a vial of pure DMS lying around I can say that it is some of the most volatile stuff I've ever experienced. Opening the vial in a laboratory fume hood fills the room with the dead crab aroma characteristic of high concentrations of DMS, despite ft/sec air flow rates in the other direction! Is it really possible that a lid heated by continuous condensation of steam could really condense a significant amount of DMS? And if so, wouldn't a short period of lid- lessness at the end of the boil suffice to eliminate this problem? I'm really: Jeremy Bergsman jeremybb at leland.stanford.edu using my wife's account. Return to table of contents
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