---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com


Contents:
  A 122F Surprise Indeed - No Head ("Charles Rich")
  Sweetening an Stout??? (Mike Smith)
  Jethro on Irradiation ("Rob Moline")
  HBD at GABF?? (Mark Tumarkin)
  entire butt cont. (Mark Tumarkin)
  Spooky Brew Review/Beer Lasers (eric fouch)
  "Dynasty", "Dallas" and Total Beverage (dconger)
  Wyeast 2565 (Kolsch) (Nathan Moore)
  Thermometers/ siphoning (TheTHP)
  "Dumbing Down" of Craft Brewing (KennyEddy)
  Re: Bottle/Keg Alternative--Plastic bottles (Todd Ehlers)
  Hop plants / Post harvest questions (Manbeck, Brad J.)" <BJM at roisysinc.com>
  135F rest / lactic acid / no bottles! (Brian Bliss)
  Tailgate; philosophy (Samuel Mize)
  Kegging hardware, etc. ("Mark S. Johnston")
  Driving off chlorine (John Rezabek)
  RE: Efficiency Problem ("Capt. Marc Battreall")
  John Palmer (The Holders)
  Jethro on Mark Silva's Comments ("Rob Moline")
  A Style Question (Mark Tumarkin)
  TID: Is it a Homebrew? (Bob.Sutton)
  Re: Fwd: Rob Moline and the Little Apple Debacle (Brewboy1) (Gary Krone)
  The Definitive Butt Treatment (not Preparation H) (Junius Adams)
  Exploding Carboys (Kent Peetz)
  Re: cooler yield/PBW/2-row vs. 6-row (Spencer W Thomas)
  Grain Volume Goof / Dry Yeast Anonymous (KennyEddy)


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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 21:30:56 -0700
From: "Charles Rich" <riches at halcyon.com>
Subject: A 122F Surprise Indeed - No Head

In all the merriment I don't think anyone touched on the principal reason
for doing the 122F rest. The 122F rest is mainly to prevent amino-starved
worts in mashes high in adjuncts, which, because they are unmalted, don't
contribute a share of dietary amino acids needed for healthy yeast. 

Unmalted adjuncts dilute the free amino nutrient (listed as free amino
nitrogen or FAN) provided by the base malt. They yield a lot of sugar for
the yeast but they don't provide enough FAN to sustain reproduction. Even
european pils malts by themselves provide adequate FAN for a no-adjunct
mash.  But cut the grainbill with a lot of corn or unmalted wheat and you
reduce the percent of nitrogen in the wort directly.  A grainbill with 20%+
unmalted wheat, or corn (maize), pumpkins etc. can thin the nutrient pool
to a risky degree.
  
Note that North American 2 and 6-row malt is loaded with FAN and so can
take
heavy dilution, see Jeff Renner's Classic American Pilsner, but low-FAN
malt doesn't take it as well. So, the 122F rest can come to the rescue by
developing more amino acids and peptides - but at the expense of heading,
body and mouthfeel. 

If one is mashing a no-adjunct bill or a very low-adjunct bill (5%), even
euro-pils malts can safely skip the 122F rest - and should - where even a
twenty-minute rest there will appreciably ding your heading.  If more
heading, body and mouthfeel are wanted, and who doesn't - a protein rest
above 131F will develop it further.  If you don't like losing some of your
MMWP because a 122F rest is needed, you can recover some of your losses by
another rest above 131F. Say 132F-138F.

When mashing with adjuncts, because they are unmalted you can also
introduce raw gums (glucans) to the mash, increasing its viscosity and
hampering easy
runoff.  In the recent Brewing Techniques, May-August 1997, 'Advancement:
Step Mash for Customized Worts',  Jim Busch lists 99F-113F as the optimum
glucan rest temperature.  Note that although this temp is also sometimes
used for an acid rest it does not appreciably change pH after dough-in
until after several hours, even in distilled water.  See for yourself.

========================================
Follow up on kitchen protein experiments: Procedure change - Resting the
decanted liquid instead of keeping it in the grain skews the results,
although it  demonstrates the hit that 122F takes, it doesn't show all the
gains from a rest at 132F or higher.  More MMWP (heading proteins) develop
as more protein comes into solution at the higher temperatures. Doh!

========================================
Burner efficiency tip:  I used aluminum roofing flashing for a cheap,
simple thermal jacket around the bottom half of my kettle and it cut my
time to reach boling almost in half.  To keep it evenly spaced, I snipped
1-inch diagonal cuts along the top, every five or six inches, then bent the
triangular tabs inward, pointing toward the kettle.  The tips just touch
the sides of the kettle holding the jacket about an inch away all around.
I held it together with pop-rivets but paperclips would probably do.

========================================
Ken Schwartz (thanks for the Son of Fermentation Chiller, too) re: resting
at higher proteolytic ranges skewing saccharification. You can tune the pH
for the conversion you want, say pH 4.8 for proteins in a thick mash (0.8:1
to 1:1), then later, infuse with water to raise the pH and thin the mash
for a saccharification favoring mash.

Re: SoF Chiller, A wood rasp dresses foam board nicely, a bandsaw even
better.  I can keep 45F in my 75F garage.  Clorox bottles are tougher than
milk jugs.
========================================
Bucket-of-stuff dehumifiers happen to use Calcium Chloride.  Bags of refill
are $1-2.00 ea.
========================================
Re:LBarrowman's nice summary in #2503,  
"4) pH Adjust after mashing" - if you plan a protein rest you might wish to
raise pH after the rest instead of before.  Proteolytic enzymes like low
pH.
"7) Calculate" - Malt spec sheets report numbers on a "dry basis" (0%
moisture) which is theoretical and makes the numbers look impossibly good.
========================================
Mike Spinelli and 4# of oats in a 20 gallon batch.  I use a glucan rest at
105F with oats, but oats can give a slippery mouthfeel if overused.  I
might keep it down to 2-3# .

Cheers,
Charles Rich


Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 15:30:09 +1000
From: Mike Smith <s3113697 at bohm.anu.edu.au>
Subject: Sweetening an Stout???

Could anyone out there help with suggestions on how to sweeten a Stout. We
used a Coopers wort (an Australian brand)and 1kg dark liquod malt and 1kg
dark powered malt. Fermented for 2 weeks at a steady 27 derees c.Its just a
little bitter.

Yours Mike Smith:)


Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 11 Sep 97 01:06:57 PDT
From: "Rob Moline" <brewer at ames.net>
Subject: Jethro on Irradiation

		The Jethro Gump Report
Irradiation.....

	Until Sam Mize pointed out these pages, which I haven't looked at yet,
this was one of the responses.....I don't think Andy will mind my posting
it here... but, I am on the way to Trademark the "Skunkifier"....

>From: aab1 at chrysler.com
>
>'Twont work Capn'.
>
>The original "Bubble Chamber" , a device used to measure the amount of
>ionizing particles in an area was
>inspired by a scientist working at U of M sitting in a bar in Ann Arbor
>staring at the bubbles in his beer after
>a rough day of no progress. It then dawned on him: The ionizing
>particles will form nucleation sites as it
>passes through the beer! Eureka.  He ran out of the bar with his beer
>and invented the first bubble chamber.
>
>So, It boils down to this, It could be done, but it would have to be
>with perfectly flat beer.
>
>-Andy Birko


Andy,
	So, a bubble chamber is a device full of carbonated water, under pressure?
Does this mean that a nuclear attack or accidental detonation would make
glass grenades of all homebrew, (and coke, etc.) with a certain radius?

>Hmm.. Good point. I never even thought about this hazard. I can see
>only one solution: empty every
>bottle as soon as possible to prevent any unnecessary risk.
>-Andy

	So, after this advice, I can only say that when the missiles are coming
in, drink your homebrew! What else would you do?? OK? I know!!

But Seriously...

>From: Samuel Mize <smize at prime.imagin.net>
>Subject: Irradiation; 
>
>You'll hear a lot of paranoia and FUD about using radiation.  As you
>probably already know, Rob, (1) radiation doesn't stay in food --
>except as heat; (2) the chemical changes due to irradiation are
>largely the same as those from the heat of cooking.

	I don't believe that my teeth are radioactive, and they have seen their
share of rays, as has the rest of while doing rays in surgery and
such...but chem changes were unexpected.....

>OTOH, it takes a heap of radiation to sterilize things.  This means
>you have to have a ton of shielding and control systems, and that
>means money.  For a product like beer, that can be pasteurized by
>normal means, it's probably quite uneconomical.  Irradiation is
>best for things like meat or veggies, that CAN'T be heat pasteurized
>and retain any apparent freshness.
>
>And I believe you WILL get some chemical changes, just as you would
>from heat pasteurization.  You're still adding energy to the food.

	My only experiences were from packaged supplies, done by the folks at
Gladesville Hospital, NSW, that were then sent to the irradition
units...but not being informed on this, just thought...why not?  Is it one
of those things that just draws out the fear mongers? Or could it work?

	Thanks, gents!
JG
Rob Moline
Brewer At Large
brewer at ames.net

"The More I Know About Beer, The More I Realize I Need To Know More About
Beer!"

Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 08:20:05 -0400
From: Mark Tumarkin <tumarkin at mindspring.com>
Subject: HBD at GABF??

Ian Smith asks:

>Does anyone know when the Great American Beer Festival starts this year ?

Yes, it starts on Thursday Oct. 2, and runs through Sat. Oct. 4. You can
get more info on the AOB web site at www.aob.org/gabfframeset.htm

This is going to be my first year at the GABF. I'm really looking forward
to tasting a lot of great beers that I have only read about. (Florida has
some really restrictive bottle laws that severely limit the brands sold
here - this law was put through for the benefit of the big brewers, that's
one of my biggest complaints about the budmilloors crowd).

I know that probably a lot of you are also going. Any interest in having an
HBD get-together at a nearby pub after one of the sessions? Maybe after the
Thursday members-only session. They are going to announce the winners early
this year. It would be great to meet you guys, put faces with the names
we've come to know, you all seem like friends that I'd love to hoist a pint
with and discuss the winners. 

If any of you are interested, and especially if you've been to the fest
before and can suggest a good, close location with interesting beer - I'd
love to hear from you. 

Mark Tumarkin
The Brewery in the Jungle

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Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 08:26:42 -0400
From: Mark Tumarkin <tumarkin at mindspring.com>
Subject: entire butt cont.

michel brown writes:

>Thanks to Jonas, Charley, Randy, Mark, Paul, and Tom, I confirmed the
meaning of the Entire part, in relation to Porter ale, and brewing.
However, no clear definition has come to light in regards to the "Butt"
portion of the equation! Pardon my French, I just don't seem to get the
connection in relationship to the use of the word "Butt" in this context.
Where's the Oxford English Dictionary when you need it? TTYAL, ILBCNU!

well, I just went to Websters dictionary web site and found the following:

Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Middle French botte, from Old Proven=E7al
bota, from Late Latin buttis
Date: 14th century
1 : a large cask especially for wine, beer, or water
2 : any of various units of liquid capacity; especially : a measure equal
to 108 imperial gallons (491 liters)

Some sources report that the phrase Entire Butt was popularized by
Harwood's younger brother Billy (Bubba) Harwood who was overheard to say:

               "I can't believe I drank the entire butt."

Michel, I hope that clears up your confusion.

Mark Tumarkin
The Brewery in the Jungle



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Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 10:14:11 -0400 (EDT)
From: eric fouch <S=fouch%G=eric%DDA=ID=STC021.efouch%Steelcase-Inc at MCIMAIL.COM>
Subject: Spooky Brew Review/Beer Lasers


Date: Thursday, 11 September 1997 10:07am ET
To: STC012.HOMEBRE3 at STC010.SNADS
From: Eric.Fouch at STC001
Subject: Spooky Brew Review/Beer Lasers
In-Reply-To: The letter of Wednesday, 10 September 1997 2:41am ET
 
Hey Tom (Fitzpatrick)-
"
Enter one of our special categories
for only $1 :
Smashed Pumpkin Award - send us your
absolute worst concoction for a special
ribbon. All entries must be drinkable!
"
How well would my "Bottle Bomb Berry Barleywine" be recieved?  After 5 mos. in
the bottle, three of the 10 bottles of raspberry barleywine were found (sob])
broken.  I chilled the rest, and opened one (over the sink).  I think it's
drinkable, but you gotta be fast.  I guess it should really be called:
"Bottle Bong Berry Barleywine".  Talk about old faithfull]  The shotglassfull
I was able to salvage tasted pretty darn good.  Not bad for my first gusher.
I've got one in the freezer for tonight- I hope that 12% and an SG of 1.025
(Before the infection) should keep it from freezing, and the temp should keep
it from gushing.  If not, my plans for the other bottles is to drill a 1/32"
hole in the cap and use the resulting beer laser to cut some rust off the ol'
war wagon.
I have been following the fruit pastuerization/sanitation thread quite closely
these days....
 
Eric Fouch
Bent Dick Bottle Bong Brewery
Kentwood, MI


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Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 10:15:02 -0400
From: dconger at roadshow.com
Subject:   "Dynasty", "Dallas" and Total Beverage

TO: homebrew at hbd.org


In a response to a response to a query about the relatively expensive   
entry fee for Total Beverage's upcoming homebrew competition, Al K.   
wrote:

>Excuse me... some of us have businesses whose purposes *are* to serve   
and
>make peoples' lives better.  Turning a profit is necessary to keep the
>business going, but not everyone is in it only for the money.

Al, although I agree with and admire your philosophy, I think a more   
cynical, profit-motive viewpoint can safely be attributed to Total   
Beverage. Total Beverage is owned by Herbert Haft who used to run his   
retail empire with his son Robert. In the 80's, the Hafts were big   
players in the "hostile takeover" business. Herbert disowned Robert in a   
money/power struggle, then put another son, Ronald, in charge. Ronald   
wasn't enough of a yes-man, so he got disowned after a while. Herbert's   
wife Gloria then took the sons' side and ended up in a messy divorce. I   
think at one point the Hafts were on the cover of Kiplinger's and Soap   
Digest in the same week <g>.

Seriously though, I don't think the employees of Total Beverage are   
donating any of their time to the contest -- they probably expect to paid   
their usual hourly wage. The Total Beverage contest then, naturally has a   
higher operating cost than a contest run by a homebrew club, which is   
staffed by volunteers.  

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Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 08:41:55 -0600 (MDT)
From: Nathan Moore <moorent at bechtel.Colorado.EDU>
Subject: Wyeast 2565 (Kolsch)

	Does any one have any notes on the succes of this yeast for making
a Kolsch, or any other style?  Also, does anyone know what exact Hops are
used when brewing this syle in Cologne? 

Nathan Moore
Denver, CO


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Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 10:42:03 -0400 (EDT)
From: TheTHP at aol.com
Subject: Thermometers/ siphoning

Jeremy
I have the same worries about thermometers. I think you have to calibrate
them every time you use them. In theory humidity and barometric pressure will
both have an effect on how dial themometers work. The guys at the brewery
calibrate with ice, EVERY time they brew. While a 5 degree won't have THAT
much effect on total gravity it will have a BIG effect on the body and
fermentability of the beer. My last stout had little body and a thin
mouthfeel, hence I called it a porter and people liked it better. This was
because I didnt calibrate my thermometer and thus mashed at 150 rather than
155 where I should have been. 

Calibration:
Get out a small adjustable wrench a tall glass of boiling water, and a tall &
wide glass full of crushed icecubes and cold water.  On the back of the dial
there is a nut. The nut is attached to the probe and the red indicator inside
the dial. Place the thermometer in a glass allow it to settle in then Hold
onto the nut and rotate the dial accordingly. I use 32F for the cold and 211F
for just previously boiling.

Siphoning:
Basically its the pits. I recommend you quit siphoning an break down and buy
an easy masher (tm) and install it in your kettle. You can try to build one,
if you live in a big city. In Jackson (pop. 60,000) my town, I cant find the
correct spigot for the keg sized one i'm trying to put together (HELP?). This
method is great, but you need to use at least a half oz of whole hops
somewhere other than dry hopping. If you dont the pellet hops will clog the
EM and make draining off a PITA.  Good luck,
***
Dave in Dallas,
 
Sounds like a good explanation to me. If you want to test the theory you
could always take it down to 32F dunk it in the neighbors pool, fish it out
and plug it in ;)
***
Iodine testing
Its been interesting reading other techniques for Iodine testing. I'd like a
formal discussion of these, If you send me a well written up "method" Ill
collect a few and publish them all at once for discussion. Here is what I was
taught at a club meeting.
Take a white porcelain dish. ( I use an upside down coffee mug Kept in the
fridge) and place into it a small sample of mash. Separate out a few bits of
grain that have no husk on them and after the sample has cooled to room temp.
Place a drop of iodine right on the grain bit. Observe the color change. If
it slowly turns brown black, keep going, your not done. If it only stains
Iodine color you might be done. Next find a bit that is embedded in a husk
and test it. Dont watch the husk just the grain bit. Iodine color=done,
black/blue=relax dont worry have another homebrew, rinse the plate really
well (iodine is a poison) and do it again 10 or so minutes later... Anybody
see anything wrong with this? BTW, I've been told there is no difference (in
as far as this testing procedure is concerned) in between the iodine you by
in the drugstore and the idophor we use for sanitizing. They can be used
inter changeably. Yes?
***
Irradiation. I'm really asking for it on this one...but...don't we irradiate
our food every day when we place it in the microwave? Couldnt you irradiate
your wort or even dry hops in the microwave and kill most of the beasties?
***
I have a friend who acquired a co2 tank from a defunct paintball shop. He
says the tank is quite full and that the dip tube goes all the way to the
bottom the tank so it uses the liquid portion of the co2 to refill paint
balls.  Since I don't think this is a desirable effect in homebrewing. I told
him to build box with a doughnut built in so he could safely mount the co2
tank upside down. Thus the dip tube would be in the gas mix not the liquid
mix. Anyone see any problems with this?
***
I went to the flagship store for Borders/Walden books last night and was not
only impressed by the homebrew selection, but also by the number of names I
recognized on the book spines! It seems I've read them all before...I wonder
where...Way to go people!!!!! 
Phil.

Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 11:07:03 -0400 (EDT)
From: KennyEddy at aol.com
Subject: "Dumbing Down" of Craft Brewing

The assertion has been made here that the "dumbing-down" of craft beer is a
phenomenon with some very basic causes (e.g., $).  Mark Silva did an
excellent job in #2504 of showing that that is perhaps an oversimplification.
 I tend to agree.

To illustrate, I can point to our local beer economy.  El Paso is a Bud Lite
on Ice town.  Tecate is routinely served with an entire lime's juice dumped
into the can.  Miller Genuine Draft is considered "dark beer" by some
(seriously).  Some folks drink Shiner Bock smugly thinking they have in their
hands a fine example of traditional German brewing.

Our city's brewpub serves a standard lineup of straight-down-the-middle
styles:  Light Ale, an occasional Raspberry Ale, Amber Ale, Pale Ale, Brown
Ale, and the Stout and Porter take turns rounding out the selection.  The
Light Ale is the biggest seller.  All of these beers are nicely done, but
certainly are not extreme examples of the respective styles.   They have been
a successful restaurant since the 1970's and would probably continue to do
well with or without the brewpub.  But given the local palate, it would make
no sense to produce their beers in the envelope-pushing style of certain
craft brews from more beer-savvy regions such as the Pacific Northwest.

Their brewer has taken a somewhat different tack by presenting beer dinners
and microbrew tastings, bringing in micro and craft beer from around the
region.  While this might at first seem odd, to offer a competitor's beer in
such a manner, the goal is to challenge the patron to be more demanding in
his.her selection of beers, whether at this brewpub or elsewhere, and
hopefully to bring that new taste back to their restaurant for one of their
offerings.  As the head brewer says, "You wouldn't go to a restaurant and
order 'meat' or 'fish', so why order 'beer'?"  In the last two years the
local demand for better beers has resulted in an explosion of brand presence
in local bars, though availability is sometimes variable, as distributorships
have often been less than fair in their dealings with the publicans.

This is evident by driving a short clip up I-10 into New Mexico, where
suddenly even the smallest liquor stores have surprisingly-varied offerings
from the Southwest and the Northwest.  Tastes up the Rio are apparently more
demanding, and I know for a fact that New Mexico liquor distribution laws are
much more friendly than those here in Texas.  Forty miles north, in Las
Cruces, NM, a city of around 50,000, there are three brewpubs, compared to El
Paso's one in a city of 600,000.  Local tastes can apparently vary
drastically over short distances.

There is some conjecture that the homebrewing "fad" is on the wane because
the healthy supply of local brewpubs makes brewing your own a waste of time.
 I disagree with this, at least in my case, because I want more than just the
local pub's lineup of styles, and also because, well, I just like to brew.
 But there may be an element of truth here; the person tempted to try
homebrewing that lives down the street from a world-class pub is likely to be
disappointed in his first hopped-extract kit batch fermented with old Red
Star yeast at 80F in the middle of July.  I'd venture to say that homebrewing
as well as craft and import brews very likely fall into the "fad" category in
a demographic like El Paso.  I can see this in our club membership as well as
in the "beer-friendly" bars.

Is "dumbing-down" an evil or a necessity?  Both, and neither.  It's simply a
reaction to local markets.  Does America need thousands of microbrew labels
distributed nationwide, or does it make more sense to locally provide
according to local tastes?  We as serious homebrewers have a third option,
and so perhaps we can afford to be more critical of the marketplace.

*****

Ken Schwartz
El Paso, TX
KennyEddy at aol.com
http://members.aol.com/kennyeddy


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Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 10:22:32 -0500
From: Todd Ehlers <ehlers at mail.utexas.edu>
Subject: Re: Bottle/Keg Alternative--Plastic bottles

How about plastic soda bottles.  My roommate and I just save all our
tonic-water bottles for the purpose of taking beer out to parks where no
glass is allowed.

There is also a product called the Carbonator, which is basically a cap for
a 2 liter soda bottle with a ball lock valve on the top.  You can use it to
force carbonate the beer after you fill the bottle. The cost $10-12, plus
you need a ball lock quick-connect for your CO2.

I don't have a Carbonator and my beer stays fresh in the plastic bottle for
a day or two, its just not quite as carbonated.

Youngs used to distribute their Ram Rod and their Oatmeal Stout in 2-liter
bottles.  They still may, just not in Texas.

tod ehlers

liberty at onr.com
http://www.onr.com/user/liberty/



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Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 11:10 -0600
From: "BJM (Manbeck, Brad J.)" <BJM at roisysinc.com>
Subject: Hop plants / Post harvest questions

Well I recently harvested my first hop crop. I made a few mistakes and   
learned
quite a bit about growing your own hops. But now I have a couple of   
questions
and comments.

First a comment to any one interested in growing their own. I planted my   
varieties
too close together. This caused two problems. Once the hop plants really
started to grow, they intertwined themselves around one another. This   
hindered
the growth and made it difficult to separate once I harvested them. Be   
sure to
plant them at least six feet apart to avoid the above problems.

On to my questions. When I harvested, I cut the vines about 4 feet up   
from the
ground and left it laying. My thought is that photosynthesis will   
continue and
provide energy to the roots/rhizomes. Is this necessary or can I cut the   
vines off
at the ground after harvest? Since I planted my varieties too close, I   
want to move
them for next year. Is it better to dig up the rhizomes in the fall or   
spring to
replant them?

TIA for any suggestions or comments. Private e-mail is welcomed.

Brad Manbeck
Programmer / Analyst
ROI Systems, Inc.
bjm at roisysinc.com  

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Date: Thu, 11 Sep 97 11:42:19 CDT
From: Brian Bliss <brianb at microware.com>
Subject: 135F rest / lactic acid / no bottles!


On this subject of the 135F protein rest in lieu of a 122F rest.
After looking at records of previous batches & tasting them, and
making a couple specifcally omitting the 122F rest and using 135F,
I'm a beleiver...

- --------------

RangerBill at aol.com wrrites:
> I am having a hard time getting away from bottleing.  There are no clear
> choices out on the market that say's "Take me home!".
> [party pigs / mini-kegs / ... ] ???

Regardless of the container you use to hold your beer, I highly recommend
that you invest in a system that utilizes a large CO2 cylinder & regulator
to supply the pressure (i.e. no party pig smack packs).  You  will find so
many other uses for the CO2 setup once you have it: purging kegs & bottles,
restarting siphons using one of those orange carboy caps, purging bags for
long term storage of hops/grain, couterpressure bottling, and last but not
least, serving keg beer at a party, even if you don't have the refrigerator
space to keep a full tap system around all the time.

This said, you might try attaching some sort of fitting to the party pig or
a mini-keg system.  They do make 3-gal cornelius kegs that can fit in your
regular regrigerator (while possibly sacrificing only a single shelf) -
I beleive St.  Patrick's has them.  As for cost, you should be able to
get set up for $150.  You'll easily go through that amount in pig smack
packs or little 1 oz CO2 cylinders in a couple of years.

bb


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Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 14:21:14 -0500 (CDT)
From: Samuel Mize <smize at prime.imagin.net>
Subject: Tailgate; philosophy

Greetings to all, and especially to:

>From: Greg_T._Smith at notes.pw.com
>Subject: Bottle/Keg Alternative?

>I am planning a tailgate party in a couple of weeks.  I am trying
>to figure a way to get some homebrew there, but they do not allow
>any bottles or kegs (which they consider to be anything under 
>pressure, eliminating mini-kegs, Party Pigs, and the like).  Is
>there any alternative left for me to use?

If the restriction is on GLASS bottles -- due to breakage concerns --
bottle some in PET plastic bottles (soda bottles).

>From: "John R. Bowen" <jbowen at primary.net>
>Subject: Is it a Homebrew?

>I have a philosophical conundrum.  As an experiment, I am brewing a 
>prepared wort kit from The Brew House.
 ...It is 
>prehopped and preboiled--just add water, salts and yeast.
 ...Is this a real Homebrew?

Sure.  It's a weak pre-hopped malt extract.  Some extract kits say to
not boil, just dilute -- most on HBD say to boil anyway, but someone
who doesn't has still brewed at home.

You are selecting components, managing the fermentation process
(temperature control, sanitation), and priming/bottling.

>Certainly I'll drink it and serve it to friends, but is it the sort of 
>thing that I would want to enter into Homebrewing contests?  Can I 
>take pride in any awards?

Pride?  Shock perhaps...

I seriously doubt that you would win an award with a prehopped extract,
weak or normal, but if you do you should be glad and proud.  Not as
proud as a full-extract brewer, perhaps, but it would reflect well on
your materiel selections and your control of the process.

Sam Mize

- -- 
Samuel Mize -- smize at imagin.net -- Team Ada


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Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 20:31:25 -0400
From: "Mark S. Johnston" <msjohnst at talon.net>
Subject: Kegging hardware, etc.

I've decided to try CP bottle filling. Now all I need is a CP filler. I
recall seeing a filler advertised at one time that had springloaded lever
operators on the valves. One only had to tap the handles to purge and
fill. This seemed like an easier method than having to turn handwheels or
knobs to throttle flow. Does anyone know if a filler like this is
available, and from where?

Also, there have been several postings about the use of SS air stones for
force carbonating kegs. Who supplies these? My local shops are high on
beginners, but are a bit behind anyone advancing too far in the hobby. 

Private E-mail is fine. TIA.

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Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 22:21:13 -0400
From: John Rezabek <rezabeks at alpha.wcoil.com>
Subject: Driving off chlorine

My apologies if this subject has been beaten to death already . . . I've
had problems accessing the server (hbd.org ...) that contain the
archives. Al K's post citing "driving off chlorine" as one of the
virtues of pre-boiling water caused me a little concern.

Even in backward and remote Lima, Ohio, the water treatment plant is
using chloramines instead of elemental chlorine. It is preferred by
water treatment chemists for its greater stability (Wotring, Zymurgy '95
grain issue). Evidently it's so stable that not even boiling will remove
it. Activated carbon or carbon-block (see Francis Dunn letter, Zymurgy
97 summer issue) filtration is recommended. While I like plumbing (fire,
molten metals) I do not sell filters. "Omni" universal housings go on
sale for about $12 US around here. A carbon element (good for 500
gallons) is about $8. While I haven't tried it, the "Omni" housing looks
as though it would accomodate any "standard" size element (like the
Ametek variety).

I heard an estimate that 90 to 95% of municipal water treatment plants
are using the chloramine in lieu of elemental chlorine.

Best Regards,
John Rezabek
rezabeks at alpha.wcoil.com

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Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 21:47:00 -0400
From: "Capt. Marc Battreall" <batman at reefnet.com>
Subject: RE: Efficiency Problem

Jeremy wrote:
> 
> Subject: efficiency problem
> Question: I use a metal dial thermometer. Could a margin of error of a
> few (maybe 5) degrees seriously affect my efficiency? I believe now that
> the thermometer is inaccurate.
> How do I calibrate it (assuming that I don't have another thermometer)?
> I put it in a pot of water on the stove - at the start of the boil, it
> read below 212 degrees.
 
 Jeremy,
 
 Funny you had this problem about the same time I was conducting a
 thermometer comparison test of my own. I took 5 thermometers, 2
floating
 glass, 2 solid glass, and a metal probe type which screws into my
 Polarware 10 gallon brewpot/mash/lautertun. The glass ones all have red
 fluid inner elements (which I assume to be alcohol). Placed in a pot of
 water on my stove, I observed the comparative temperatures and the rate
 at which they were reached. As far as accuracy it seems that all 5
 thermometers were within 1 degree of each other thoughout a range
 between 90-200 degrees F. I did note however, that the Polarware model,
 as well as the 2 glass floaters, were about 4-5 degrees behind as far
as
 reaching a stabilized temperature. The lag time seemed to be around 2
 minutes before they caught up to the solid glass models. This finding
 helped me understand why my mash temperatures were so hard to get
 adjusted correctly without over shooting during a recent mashing. From
 now on, I will use my solid glass model (it looks just like a oversized
 oral thermometer that we humans use) in order to prevent overshooting a
 rest temperature because it seemed to react the fastest during my test.
 That way I will know what my Polarware model (and more importantly my
 grist!) will eventually settle out at. I usually don't have this
problem
 when using my Igloo cooler infusion masher because it is alot better at
 holding temps and I don't try to step-mash with it.
 Anyway, maybe this will help your efficiency a little, as I know it did
 for me. I know thru experience that temperature control is "paramount"
 in developing good mash extraction efficiencies.
 As far as calibrating your thermometer, I guess you could buy a second
 one to have a comparison. That would be the most economical way. They
 are only a few dollars.
 
 Good Luck,
 
 Marc
 
 ---------------------------------
 Capt. Marc D. Battreall
 batman at reefnet.com
 
              \\|//
              (o o)
 =========oOO==(_)==OOo===========
 
 Beer is proof that there is a God
                      Ben Franklin


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Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 20:08:23 -0700
From: The Holders <zymie at writeme.com>
Subject: John Palmer

It has been brought to my attention that a link on my page referring to
John Palmer's excellent information on metallurgy no longer works. Does
anyone know if John's pages have been moved, and if so, where?

Wayne Holder AKA Zymie
Long Beach CA
http://andinator.com/zymico


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Date: Fri, 12 Sep 97 02:44:29 PDT
From: "Rob Moline" <brewer at ames.net>
Subject: Jethro on Mark Silva's Comments

Mark Silva On Dumbing Down....
	Mark's comments are kind, but I know he has been working too hard, when he
says....

>we found great brewers in Topeka and Kansas City (Golden
>Tiger had a killer Russian Imperial and Boulevard has earned 10% of the
>market there with great beer).

	I know he meant to say Blind Tiger in Topeka....their Head Brewer at the
time, Kevin Eichelberger, made indeed, a killer Russian.....Kevin has since
gone on to a better position, that of assistant brewer at Free State in
Lawrence....
	And that says a lot about Free State, that an accomplished Head Brewer
would consider it a move up to become an assistant elsewhere...
	And of course, Bill Cherry, Head Brewer of Boulevard, trained in a post
grad degree at UC Davis, easily the most knowledgeable brewer I know. he
also has a great owner in John MacDonald, 
	(Yes, Virginia, there are GREAT places to work in brewing!)
JG

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Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 06:13:01 -0400
From: Mark Tumarkin <tumarkin at mindspring.com>
Subject: A Style Question

Hi all:

I recently brewed a highly hopped porter that turned out excellent, IMHO. I
want to enter it in a competition to see what kind of response it gets. In
looking at the AHA Style guide, I find the following:

>Robust Porter -
>Hop bitterness is medium to high, with hop aroma and flavor ranging from
>negligible to medium. 

>Brown Porter -
>Low to medium malt sweetness is acceptable along with medium hop
bitterness. >This is a light- to medium-bodied beer.  Hop flavor and aroma
may vary from >being negligible to medium in character. 

Basically, I feel my beer is more of a robust porter as far as malt and
body qualities. The hop bitternes is high - which is fine. The problem is
that the style guide calls for hop aroma and flavor to be negligible to
medium - while mine is delightfully high. Since there isn't an 'American
Porter' catagory, what do style should I enter this under? Someone
suggested the Specialty catagory. I'd appreciate any input. 

Mark Tumarkin
The Brewery in the Jungle

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Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 9:08:00 -0400
From: Bob.Sutton at fluordaniel.com
Subject: TID: Is it a Homebrew?

  I have a philosophical conundrum.  As an experiment, 
  I purchased a six pack of Sierra Nevada Pale Ale at 
  my local homebrew supply.  When I got home, I soaked 
  the bottles in tepid water until the labels came off 
  and then affixed some home made labels I designed.  I 
  then quickly removed the bottle caps and replaced 
  them using caps I bought from my supplier. If I had a 
  keg setup, I would have poured then carefully into 
  the CO2 purged keg.
  
  What could be simpler?
  
  Is this a real Homebrew?  Yes, I'm drinking it at 
  home, and ...
  
  
  Bob
  Fruit Fly Brewhaus
  Yesterdays' Technology Today

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Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 08:24:54 -0500
From: Gary Krone <gkrone at inconsys.com>
Subject: Re: Fwd: Rob Moline and the Little Apple Debacle (Brewboy1)

>Before I begin, let me apologize for the amount of bandwith this post may
>take.  

 ...

>Mr. Kimbrough has actually invited each and everyone of us to ask questions
>about this beer.  Personally, I should thank him for extending the invitation
>by taking him up on the offer, yet I think I already spoiled any chances with
>my first email.  So, my suggestion to the entire HDB is to come up with some
>questions for Mr. Kimbrough since he has so graciously offered this recipe to
>the world.  I should prompt those of you interested in this line of
>questioning to keep it simple since he he did say "this is not my recipe, so
>I can't answer questions which are too specific about it, but I will try to
>help you with it if I can."  Once again, the address is bkkimbro at aol.com
>
>I have been giving this issue much thought and I believe some of the most
>appropriate questions might be along the following lines:
>
>1.) What is a Barleywine?
>2.) Why is it called Barleywine?
>3.) What color is the Barleywine?
>4.) How's it taste?
>
>My guess is we can all unite on this issue and help the Jethro cause once
>again.
>
>I have borrowed enough bandwith for now,
>Please, do what you feel is right, but at the very least send Rob some
>support.

Why don't we get Mr. Moline's input onb what should be done.  It's not often
that that victim gets to choose the punishment.

What do you say Rob?

Gary Krone
gkrone at inconsystems.com



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Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 09:55:37 -0400
From: Junius Adams <AdamsJ at gwgate.nhlbi.nih.gov>
Subject: The Definitive Butt Treatment (not Preparation H)

The discussion of butts has convinced me we need the
metric system badly.  In any event, I hope the following clarifes 
the issue:

Noggin (Brit.) - 0.03125 gal (Brit.) - .1420652 L
Pottle (Brit.) - 0.5 gal (Brit.) - 2.272980 L
Bucket (Brit.) - 4 gal (Brit.) - 18.18435 L
Firkin (Brit.) - 9 gal (Brit.) - 40.91364 L
Firkin (Brit.) - 1.200949 Firkins (US)
Firkin (US) - 9 gal (US) - 34.06775 L
Kilderkin (Brit.) - 18 gal (Brit.) - 81.82957 L
Hogshead - 52.458506 gal (Brit.) - 63 gal (US) - 238.47427 L
Puncheon (Brit.) - 69.94467 gal (Brit.) -  84 gal (US) - 317.97510 L
Butt (Brit.) - 104.9170122 gal (Brit.) - 126 gal (US) - 476.9619 L
Tun - 209.8340244 gal (Brit.) - 252 gal (US) - 953.9237736 L

Barring any typographical errors, this should be correct.  The
data came from The Handbook of Chemistry and Physics.

Cheers!

Jay Adams

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Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 09:07:20 -0500
From: kpeetz at actt.engr.uark.edu (Kent Peetz)
Subject: Exploding Carboys

Can you say hops on the ceiling?  Ok, so there are no revelations about
acids, alphas, or other technical stuff here but maybe someone will get
a laugh.  I made my first batch using a 5gal carboy as a primary this
week.  I have previously used a 6gal bucket or 6gal carboy that belonged
to a friend.  Since I had heard so much about blow-off tubes, I thought
it sould be no problem. I used my long plastic siphon tube and some
clear hose run into a gallon jug full of bleach water.  I came home on
the second day to find my batch of brew bubbling slowly away in the back
bathroom bathtub.  I wondered why it had hop and foam residue around the
top of the carboy like it had really taken off but was now going at such
a slow rate.  As I was changing clothes in the next room I found out
why.  I heard a POP and went to see what it was.  The stopper had blown
out of the carboy and foam was shooting out the carboy about 2 inches
high and running all over the place.  I panicked.  I put the stopper
back in and noticed the tube looked clogged.  As I reached over to
inspect the tube, the stopper blew back out with considerable force. 
Hops and foam on the ceiling, on the walls, in my hair, up my nose, and
worst of all, all over the clothes my wife had cleaned and pressed that
were waiting to go to the consignment shop!  I guess I should strain the
hops out before using a 5gal carboy as a primary.

For other novices out there, USE LARGE BLOW OFF TUBES AND CHECK THEM
OFTEN!
- --
Brewing in the dog house.
 
Kent Peetz	
kpeetz at actt.engr.uark.edu

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Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 10:06:23 -0400
From: Spencer W Thomas <spencer at engin.umich.edu>
Subject: Re: cooler yield/PBW/2-row vs. 6-row 

>>>>> "Al" == Al Korzonas <korz at XNET.COM> writes:

	with respect to PBW film formation:

    Al> If you use an acid-based sanitizer (like one of the Iodophors
    Al> *with* phosphoric acid -- no, not all have the phosphoric acid
    Al> added -- or peracetic acid) you can soak for weeks... the acid
    Al> will take the calcium carbonate off in a flash.

So, if you follow the practice recommended by Five Star of washing
with PBW and sanitizing with StarSan, you're in good shape.  This is
what you get in their "homebrewers" kit.

=S

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Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 10:05:09 -0400 (EDT)
From: KennyEddy at aol.com
Subject: Grain Volume Goof / Dry Yeast Anonymous

I wrote:

"Another thing to tuck away for reference is that crushed grain will occupy
about 0.8 gal/lb when mixed with mash water.  That should help you determine
whether your mash tun has enough capacity for the amount of grain & water you
need."

This should be *0.08 gal / lb*.  Big difference.

*****

I'll chime in, in agreement with Jethro, that Lallemand dry yeasts are a fine
addition to the homebrewer's arsenal.  Sold by HB suppliers everywhere under
the Danstar label, they have four readily-available yeasts with various
properties.  I've used Nottingham twice, and the beer turned out nicely with
none of the goofies often associated with dry yeast.  If nothing else,
keeping a few packs around "for emergencies" or even for "impulse brewing"
makes sense at 75 cents a pack.

Check out the info at http://www.lallemand.com/

*****

Ian WIlson asks about sparge water:

  In designing a recipe, I determine the following:

  Grain bill weight		16lbs
  Final Volume 		9 gallons
  Total volume of water based on Ray Daniels work sheet from
  "Designing Great Beers"
  			16 gallons

  Mash in at 1.33 gal/lb	5.3 gal

  Of the remaining 10.7 gallons of water to put 9 gallons in 
  the fermenter, how much of this should be assigned to 
  sparge volume?  Obviously, sparging with  10.7 gallons is 
  rediculous.

An oft-quoted rule of thumb is to sparge with the same amount of water as was
used to mash.  This seems to work out for me in practice; for a 10-lb grain
bill I'd mash with 3.3 gal water and I end up with 6-1/2 gal in the boiler.
 What isn't obvious perhaps is the water left in the mashtun.  If the goal is
to keep the liquid level in the mashtun above the grain, then obviously there
is a lot of water left over.  This third fraction of water is still "needed",
but ends up as "waste" and doesn't make it to your brew.

So if you mash in with X gallons, which as a rule of thumb is half the total
sparged volume (another X), and after sparging you leave the mashtun as full
as when you mashed (a third X), you have a total volume water requirement of
about three times your mash volume.  At 1.33 qt/lb this translates to 1.33 qt
x 3 = 4 qt = 1 gal / lb total need.  In your case, you mashed in with 5.3
gal; 5.3 x 3 is pretty darn close to 16.

*****

Ken Schwartz
El Paso, TX
KennyEddy at aol.com
http://members.aol.com/kennyeddy


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---