HOMEBREW Digest #2510 Fri 19 September 1997

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		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com

  Lagering in Steel/New Wyeast (Brian_Moore)
  LABC Response ("Tim M. Dugan")
  WANTED:  A step by step BJCP study guide ("Randy A. Shreve")
  RE:  Full volume boil and hop utilization (dconger)
  Looking for a good Barrel supplier... (Jean-Sebastien Morisset)
  US Plastics for valves, connects, fittings (Dennis J. Templeton)
  Dry Yeasts ("Alan McKay")
  Boycott LABC ("Alex Aaron")
  GABF meeting (Nathan Moore)
  Sparge water pH 4.6 OK? ("Alan McKay")
  Those *^^%#% at LABC (Ahenckler)
  RE: Plastic Valves (Jean-Sebastien Morisset)
  Keg Conversion, continued... ("Eric Schoville")
  Wyeast 1968 ("Rich, Charles")
  Applejack recipe (Dave Schmidt)
  Wine Yeasts (korz)
  pantyhose beer (korz)
  Esters and conditioning (korz)
  Reverse Osmosis water ("Bridges, Scott")
  Wyeast 1968 (korz)
  Mild mash temps (korz)
  Irradiating Beer ("Houseman, David L")
  Laminar Flow Hood & HEPA Filter Summary (KennyEddy)
  AHA Guidelines (part 1) ("Brian M. Rezac")
  AHA Guidelines (part 2) ("Brian M. Rezac")
  Belgian XMass Beer Suggestions ("Paul A. Hausman")
  Reusing/ saving Yeast ("David L. Thomson")
  homebrew club liability (John Landreman)
  Re:Converting pre-boil SG to post-boil SG (Jim Wallace)
  Munich / IPA / LABCO (Matthew Arnold)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 10:12:54 -0500 From: Brian_Moore at amat.com Subject: Lagering in Steel/New Wyeast Greetings all, My two brewing partners and I have recently jumped into lagering with both (actually six) feet. I wanted to request some information from the HBD collective. We currently have five 10 gallon lager batches at different stages of fermentation. We've used either the Wyeast Bavarian Lager or the Wyeast Czech Pils yeast (sometimes both) for all five batches. We've been doing the primary fermentations in glass for about 2-3 weeks at about 50F. We then move them to 5 gallon soda kegs and do secondary and tertiary fermentations at 45F and 35F, respectively. Once we get the beers into the kegs, I usually bleed off the pressure about once a day. Sometimes I miss a day. I am wondering just how much CO2 these beers are producing. I can currently vent the Pils and then come back 10 minutes later and pressure has already built up again. I would like to know whether letting the pressures build up too high for too long will impact the yeast activity (or other characteristics). Also, our last three batches (Dunkle, Bock, Eis/Dopplebock - we'll see) used a combination of the Bavarian and Czech Pils yeast. These three gave off the most horrid sulphury, rotten egg smell during the primary fermentation! It has dissipated quite a bit now, but my chest freezer was putrid for a couple of weeks. I knew this was a characteristic of the Wyeast Munich strain, but I was surprised by smelling it with these strains. I'm curious if the pressure build-up in the kegs while these ferment will carry some of that sulphury smell to the finished beer? Mmmm rotten eggs! Finally, one of the local homebrew shops here was test marketing some new Wyeast strains. One was a "Northwest ESB" yeast. I'm guessing maybe Redhook? The other was some sort of English Ale. Maybe also an ESB. I have not brewed with these yet. Does anyone out there have any information or experience with these? Thanks, Brian in Austin Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 10:31:40 -0500 From: "Tim M. Dugan" <tdugan at netins.net> Subject: LABC Response - -----Original Message----- >From: Bkkimbro at aol.com >Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 09:55:32 -0400 (EDT) >To: mikeb at flash.net >Subject: Re: Barleywine recipe > < Dribble Deleted > >2. As an employee of the company, every product (good or bad) he = produced >was the sole property of the company, just as our chef's food is. < Dribble Deleted > >Russ Loub >Owner/ General Manager >Little Apple Brewing Co. As much as I hate to align myself with this a**hole, I think this point = is being over looked. An employee's work, is the property of the = employer. =20 I am in the process of leaving my present job. I am not in the brewing = industry, but I am a software developer. There are utilities in use by = our customers that I am the sole developer. If I tried walking out of = here next week, claiming that the source code was mine, I would be met = by laughter or security. I was paid to produce a product, and that = product belongs to the company. I doubt the brewing industry is any = different. If my company wants to take the software I wrote and put it = out in the public domain, it is their software to do so as they wish. Am I missing something here? Can the developer of a recipe at Red Hook = take the recipe to Blue Moon? Mr. Moline did say that Little Apple Brewing told him that the recipe = was his. If the recipe was developed before Rob Moline began working as = a brewer at Little Apple Brewing Co., say as a homebrewer, then = obviously it is. But, I fear that the recipe was developed as an = employee of Little Apple Brewing, and any "giving away" that was done = was probably done orally. =20 One thought, I doubt Mr. Loub will be around for long with his attitude. = Mr. Loub sounds exactly like an owner I worked for in a previous life = as a bartender...a person with total lack of respect for his/her = employees. In order to best serve your customers, you need a staff with = high morale. If you treat your employees like crap, they will treat the = customers like crap. And if you treat your employees great, they will = treat the customers great. When the customers are happy, you will = succeed, when they are unhappy, you will fail eventually. I have a great deal of respect and have learned a lot from Mr. Moline, = and I hate being "on the other side". I visited Little Apple Brewing a = little while ago and was quite impressed with both the beers and the = atmosphere. I didn't attempt to talk to Rob Moline, but I understand = that if I did, he would have bent over backwards for me and my family. = Hope you are doing the same somewhere else real soon. Tim M. Dugan tdugan at netins.net P.S. Now, what was that recipe again... Joke, joke, it was only a joke! = ;-) Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 11:32:30 -0400 (EDT) From: "Randy A. Shreve" <rashreve at interpath.com> Subject: WANTED: A step by step BJCP study guide Fellow beer lovers: At a recent meeting of the Carolina BrewMasters in Charlotte, NC, I was discussing preparation for the BJCP exam with a fellow member. He had recently taken the test with less than stellar results (I haven't taken the plunge yet myself!). Tim had a great idea: a step by step study guide is needed! I have seen the BJCP study guide available on the net. Although it is chock full of all kinds of great info, it is really only a reference work. Preparation for this test considering the detailed knowledge needed on all the various sub-topics is a monumental and overwhelming task. How in the world do you get started? What do you study first, and how much of each topic? (Now you can see WHY I haven't taken the plunge yet!) What is needed is a STEP BY STEP study process. For example: let's say we have arbitrarily chosen a six month time frame to prepare for the exam, and there will be monthly meetings for those in the process. Preparation for first meeting: read Chapters 1-5 of "Beer Book" Read Chapters 6-8 of "Another Beer Book". Tasting assignments. Month 1: All about Malt - discussion/lecture Taste certain styles of beer, off flavors, etc. to begin to educate the palate. Other appropriate stuff, guided self-study to prepare for next month, etc. Preparation for next meeting: reading and tasting assignments Month 2: All about Yeast - discussion/lecture More tasting. More appropriate stuff, more guided self-study for the next month, etc. Get the idea? If there is already something available like this in hyperspace, I have missed it! If it doesn't exist, are any of the Great Academic Brew Gurus out there interested in taking on a project like this? Thanks! Randy in Salisbury, NC Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 11:40:36 -0400 From: dconger at roadshow.com Subject: RE: Full volume boil and hop utilization TO: homebrew at hbd.org In HBD 2508, Jeff Beaujon asks about factors affect hop utilization. There is an excellent summary of this deep and somewhat confusing subject in Norm Pyle's Hop FAQ, at: http://realbeer.com/hops/FAQ.html#units . David Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 11:54:29 -0400 From: Jean-Sebastien Morisset <jsmoriss at qc.bell.ca> Subject: Looking for a good Barrel supplier... Oh wise HBD collective, I'm looking to buy a 10 gal Oak Barrel to ferment some Barleywine etc. So far, I've been looking for a French Oak barrel, with a light to medium toast, tight grain, and wide/fat rather than the long/thin type. Are these good qualities? I've only been able to locate a single company (in California) which sells this type of barrel in 7 1/2 gal or 15 gal sizes (I can even choose my prefered forest in France!). Since my largest batch size is 12 gal, am I correct to avoid the 15 gal barrel? Does anyone know of a company selling 10 gal barrels with these characteristics? Thanks, js. - -- Jean-Sebastien and Melanie <mailto:jsm-mv at geocities.com> Personal Home Page <http://www.geocities.com/NapaValley/5603/> "Our Homebrewery, Award Winning Recipes, & Technical References" Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 12:02:31 -0500 From: djt2 at po.cwru.edu (Dennis J. Templeton) Subject: US Plastics for valves, connects, fittings Two queries asked for sources of plastic valves and quick disconnects. A fine source is US Plastics; 1-800-537-9724. If it's plastic, they have it. Dennis Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 12:25:36 -0400 From: "Alan McKay" <Alan.McKay.amckay at nt.com> Subject: Dry Yeasts Jeffrey Kenton writes in HBD 2508 : > "Fellow HBDers, I have received several replies to my search for quality > dried yeast stock, and I hope that I have replied to each person that > emailed me their suggestions. If I have forgotten, please forgive my > oversight. > > The big three are : > 1. Lallemand/Danstar (nottingham, london, etc.) > 2. Edme > 3. Yeast Lab Dry Lager > > These are ranked according to the number of referrals only, not necessarily > according to quality, blah, blah, blah. I am also not affiliated with any > particular company, etc, etc. > > Again, I am amazed at the number of messages I received regarding this. > Thanks to all of those that replied to my query." After a couple of years as a die-hard liquid yeast fanatic (and a yeast bank to prove it :-) ) I decided for various reasons to give dry yeasts another try. After more than a half dozen batches with Cooper's in the gold foil pack, I am extremely impressed with it. Pitching 14 grams (2 packs) shows signs of fermentation after only 2 or 3 hours even with no aeration. Primary fermentation is completed in a remarkable 24 to 30 hours after pitching!!! I've also noticed that even at higher temperatures like 75F (22C) this yeast is able to produce a reasonably clean taste (for an Ale). My assumption is that the yeast is bread for the warmer climes of Australia. That may not be valid, of course, but it makes sense to me. I've used the Yeast Lab Dry Lager once, and it did not start after 30 hours, so I pitched my trusty Cooper's and 30 hours after that the primary was complete, as expected. Of course, I didn't aerate. But given that I never do when using my Cooper's, why should I expect to have to? I've also tried Munton's Gold once. Fermentation went really well (yet not as impressive as the Cooper's). Primary was done in about 2 to 3 days. I've yet to bottle this beer, so can't yet report on how it tastes. Judging by the taste at racking, I'd say it's going to be a hit as well. -Alan - -- Alan McKay Nortel Enterprise Networks Norstar / Companion / Monterey Operations PC Support Prime Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 09:24:05 -0700 From: "Alex Aaron" <aaaron at pacbell.net> Subject: Boycott LABC To everyone: As much as I hate chain letters, this might actually work. Send this message to ten friends, tell them to send it to ten of their friends. Boycott Little Apple Brewing Company. Since they listen to thier customers, they might get the message when they have no customers. Alex Aaron aaaron at pacbell.net http://www.checkmaster.com/internetchecks/alex/index.html Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 10:39:31 -0600 (MDT) From: Nathan Moore <moorent at bechtel.Colorado.EDU> Subject: GABF meeting A HBD meeting does sound fun but a good point was made about the over packing of local brewpubs (and they are pretty full). So how about a local secret. We can meet at Pint's Pub at 211 W 13th Ave, about a 15 min walk from the GABF but still out of the way enough. It is a great British pub that brews a couple including a cask conditioned and has a great selection of rare imports. Some one can just tell the bartender to direct HBD'rs to a certain area. How about thursday at 8:00 PM? Another alternative would be my place, we can all bring a few homebrews and meet for a while. I live about the same distance as Pint's Pub from the GABF and downtown hotels(about 1 mile). Private e-mail if your interested in this option. (We can all plan our boycot of the Little Apple). Nathan Moore Denver, CO Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 12:37:41 -0400 From: "Alan McKay" <Alan.McKay.amckay at nt.com> Subject: Sparge water pH 4.6 OK? Hi folks, I was wondering how far down one should bring the pH of sparge water. In the past I've usually tried to keep it around 5.0 to 5.5 -- in-line with the pH of the mash itself. But for the last couple of batches I've brought it down even further (with acid blend, as always) to 4.6. I know that this lower pH will help me extract less tannins, and will also favour proteases (as I recall). Are there any other plusses or minusses I should be aware of? Just how low can I go? thanks, -Alan - -- Alan McKay Nortel Enterprise Networks Norstar / Companion / Monterey Operations PC Support Prime Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 12:45:38 -0400 (EDT) From: Ahenckler at aol.com Subject: Those *^^%#% at LABC I'm so irked, I wish I were near LABC so I could give this prick a piece of my mind in person. What can I say, but FLAME AWAY! How about everyone just spreading the word about those fun folks at LABC? - Andrew << n proudly say that we now have a brewer who understands the >importance of the customer and meeting there needs. Personally, I have more >important things to do than waste my time on the internet so you won't be >hearing from me again, ever. Get a life. > >Russ Loub >Owner/ General Manager >Little Apple Brewing Co. >> Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 12:55:53 -0400 From: Jean-Sebastien Morisset <jsmoriss at qc.bell.ca> Subject: RE: Plastic Valves > Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 10:31:24 -0500 > From: Ralph Link <rlink at minet.gov.mb.ca> > Subject: Plastic Valves > > Does anyone know if it possible to use high temp. plastic ball valves on a > whole grain system. I am told that there is a valve call a C PVC valve that > can take the high temps. If you know anything about this please respond via > e-mail Don't do it! I've done the whole PVC, CPVC, PP route and came out much poorer in the end. CPVC or PP valves are *more* expensive than Brass valves. Plastic also expands with heat but doesn't shrink all the way back to it's original size. Unless you're glueing your connections, you'll find they've become loose after every use -- A prime cause of HSA. Do yourself a favour and stick with SS, Copper, or Brass. BTW, if you'd like to see a bit of what I went through, the whole story is available on my web page. Later! js. - -- Jean-Sebastien and Melanie <mailto:jsm-mv at geocities.com> Personal Home Page <http://www.geocities.com/NapaValley/5603/> "Our Homebrewery, Award Winning Recipes, & Technical References" Return to table of contents
Date: 17 Sep 97 10:42:20 -0700 From: "Eric Schoville" <ESCHOVIL at us.oracle.com> Subject: Keg Conversion, continued... Hello again, I had several responses to my previous post about cutting the top of sankey kegs asking what type of circular saw blade that I used. Unfortunately, I am not at home this week, because I am on business, so I can not give the mfg name/part number, but I can give some other information. I purchased the blade at Home Despot. It was located with the other circular saw blades in their "Hardware" section. The blade is a fiber reinforced grinding wheel, 6 1/2" in diameter, made specifically for circular saws. They also had a 7 1/4" blade, which would have fit my circular saw, but I thought that I could get a smaller diameter circle with the smaller blade. I think it important to not that the sticker on the blade says that it can be used with metals. I also checked for this grinding wheel at my local ACE Hardware (because I personally do not like Home Depot very much after working both at True Value and Lowe's earlier in life), but they did not have any in stock. Because of this, I would suggest a larger hardware store. I also had a couple of questions about the grinding stone that I used. It is a small cylindrical stone, about 2" long and 1" in diameter that attaches to a drill. I also bought this at Home Depot. After using his on three kegs, it looks like an hourglass instead of the cylinder that it. If I were to get another one, I would recommend one that was quite a bit thicker. I think that it would spin faster and speed grinding. I was really tempted to take the guard off my bench grinder, and use it to grind down the edges, but I thought that it would be a little to risky, so I made due with the small grinding stone. **************************************************************** I also really appreciate all of the responses that I received regarding bulkhead fittings. I am really wondering now if I should try the bulkhead fittings which I have been informed are really expensive, or whether I should go ahead and get a weld job done, or whether I should just use silver solder for the plumbing. Right now I am leaning towards the soldering because I already have the solder and the price is right. I just want to make sure that the fittings are going to be stable. Any comments? ***************************************************************** I am on business in St. Louis. I've tried Morgan Street Brewery (Average Beer, Great Food) and the Taproom (Good-Excellent Beer, Good Food). Any other recommendations? Eric Schoville Norman Conqueror of Absolutely Nothing Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 10:42:51 -0700 From: "Rich, Charles" <CRich at saros.com> Subject: Wyeast 1968 This is my favorite ale yeast. As Wyeast points out, it is very flocculent, but I find that it is also very temperature sensitive too and that is what has triggered mid-ferment dropout for me. If you can keep it above 64-66F and not shock it with temperature swings it'll work well. I keep it at 68F when I use it. If it drops out, I rouse it by slowly swirling the fermenter to stir things up, which also releases CO2. If this fails after a few times, then reviving it at a slightly warmer temperature will usually do it. Dion Hollenbeck's "fermenter in a gabage can of water with an aquarium heater" works if your ambient temps tend to go too low. Cheers Charles Rich Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 13:43:21 -0500 From: Dave Schmidt <dschmidt at microlink.net> Subject: Applejack recipe I'm looking for a recipe for a drink called "apple-jack". Anyone know of any? Thanks, Dave Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 13:56:55 -0500 (CDT) From: korz at xnet.com Subject: Wine Yeasts Mike has a stuck ferment on his "Brown Ale" fermented at 62F with 1028. I don't have any experience with those wine yeasts, but the only concern would be sulphury aromas or excessive higher alcohols, both of which should age out given enough time. I think, however, that your problem was that you were trying to ferment Wyeast #1028 too cold. When you pitched initially, the wort was probably closer to 70F. The green beer was cooling because of the ambient temperature, but the yeast activity is exothermic, so the yeast kept the green beer warmer than 62F. When activity began to slow, the beer cooled down to 62F and the yeast ground to a halt. Despite what the Wyeast flyer says, I believe that Wyeast #1028 really prefers temperatures above 65F. If you pitch a big starter, the yeast may finish the job before slowing down and therefore cooling off. so with a big starter you may be able to ferment down to 60F. Al. Al Korzonas, Palos Hills, IL korz at xnet.com Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 14:13:14 -0500 (CDT) From: korz at xnet.com Subject: pantyhose beer Cory suggests using pantyhose as a hop bag. I would advise against that as the dyes in pantyhose are somewhat beer-soluble. I used to use nylon mesh bags for hops till I put an EasyMasher(tm) in the bottom of my 1st kettle. Ever since then, I only whole hops (pellets clog the EasyMasher) and run the wort out through the bottom. Not only does this remove the hops, but it also filters out some of the break material. I have the photos of my new brewery (similar design) scanned-in, but I now have to upload them to my Web server. It could take a few more weeks to find the time... sigh. Disclaimer: I do not sell EasyMashers, I have *sold* my store, I'm just a satisfied customer of JSP, that's all. Al. Al Korzonas, Palos Hills, IL korz at xnet.com Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 14:44:23 -0500 (CDT) From: korz at xnet.com Subject: Esters and conditioning Jeremy writes: > The extended cold conditioning cleans up the esters, and >allows the flavors to mellow. I have read in numerous books and articles about esterification which is the *creation* of esters from alcohols and acids. Yeast in the conditioning vessel is supposed to be important for this since I've read where the process of esterification is extremely slow on its own. As for the opposite process, I've never read about it in any professional text. Furthermore, my own personal experience indicates that ester levels only increase during aging. An interesting datapoint (only *one* datapoint, mind you!) is that I had a Duesseldorfer Altbier in which I stored half the batch cold (40F) and the rest "warm" (60-70F). After 9 months, I compared the two, blind. Both were slightly fruitier than they were after 2 months, but the one stored *cold* was slightly fruitier than the one stored warm. Just a datapoint. Al. Al Korzonas, Palos Hills, IL korz at xnet.com Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 15:46:00 -0400 From: "Bridges, Scott" <bridgess at mmsmtp.ColumbiaSC.NCR.com> Subject: Reverse Osmosis water Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 03:07:47 -0500 From: Denis Barsalo <denisb at CAM.ORG> Subject: re:"Bring Out The Holy Hand Grenade!" >>answer the question....which spring?,....what's in it?...etc,) .....R.O. >>water will definitely require some salts...... > > I wouldn't say "definitely"! I use R.O. water all the time and i >only add a little bit of salts when I'm brewing ales. For my last two >batches (pilsners), I didn't add anything to the water and they both turned >out great!!! > >Denis Speaking of RO water, I saw a home RO set up in the local home improvement store (Lowe's, my home away from home). It was about $200 bucks. I don't recall the manufacturer. Anyone familiar with these kinds of units? How good are they really? My water is really high in carbonates, which makes it less than optimal brewing water. I use an under-sink filter now, but I know I'm still off the temporary hardness chart. I have to acidify the #%&$ out of my brewing water. If it really does take all the ions out of the water, I'd consider buying it. In addition to having better brewing water (can anybody say "pilsner?"), it would get rid of all that chalky-lookin' stuff (calcium carbonate?) that deposits on and corrodes my plumbing fixtures. Anybody use one of these, or know how they operate? TIA, Scott Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 14:50:41 -0500 (CDT) From: korz at xnet.com Subject: Wyeast 1968 Paul writes: Highly flocculant top-fermenting strain with rich, malty character and balanced fruitiness. This strain is so flocculant that additional aeration is needed. An excellent strain for cask-conditioned ales. Flocculation - high; apparent attenuation - 67-71%. I must disagree. Additional aeration is not necessary, although rousing is. If you swirl the fermenter with the airlock in place (i.e with the headspace of the fermenter all full of CO2), you will get the attenuation that's expected *without* further aeration. This is one of those yeasts, however, that responds well to aeration *during* fermentation. The result will be higher diacetyl levels. Al. Al Korzonas, Palos Hills, IL korz at xnet.com Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 14:56:46 -0500 (CDT) From: korz at xnet.com Subject: Mild mash temps Mark wonders about the low mash temps in "Brew Your Own Real Ale at Home." I agree with you Mark, that higher mash temps (i.e. 158F) would be better. Remember that these beers typically have OGs of 1.030 or 1.035. With such a low OG, a highly-attenuated beer would taste very thin and dry. I recall from at least one of the Mild recipes in that book, that they used an incredible amount of crystal malt (something like 20 or 25% of the grist!). I would shy away from such a high percentage of crystal malt and in stead use about 5% dark crystal, 2 to 5% chocolate and mash at 158F. This will result in lots of dextrins and a higher FG which will give your beer a bigger mouthfeel than you might expect from a 1.030 or 1.035 OG beer. Al. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 16:57:37 -0400 From: "Houseman, David L" <David.Houseman at unisys.com> Subject: Irradiating Beer "The irradiating sources used currently for food prezervation are typically "low power" ones which can punch through plastic, but not significant enough to punch through cans. I don't remeber ever hearing or even thinking about bottles. Point being that it might not be a great sterilizer for production beer." It would be simple enough to irradiate the beer as it flowed in a line from the holding tank to the bottler if it were decided to use this as a form of sterilization. I believe the issue of using irradiation with foods is a contraversial and political one about the health and safety issues of the irradiated products, not a technical one (which has been pointed out). But let's not open this pandora's box; it's not practical for many of us homebrewers, save those still left in Chernoybl. Dave Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 18:08:28 -0400 (EDT) From: KennyEddy at aol.com Subject: Laminar Flow Hood & HEPA Filter Summary Thanks to all who offerred replies to my question about HEPA (high-efficiency particulate air) filters for the Under-$100 Laminar Flow Hood in an old issue of Brewing Techniques. Here's a rundown of replies. Two respondents who actually built the box (with a "real" HEPA filter) said it worked very well. One respondent said the prices in the article are somewhat dated, but that "inexpensive" filters can be had with enough shopping. Another suggested using HEPA respirator mask filters, which are much less expensive, but this could require additional redesign & construction work, and the size and shape of the filters may not be optimal for the application. Still another respondent reminded me that HEPA filters are often sold in catalog stores for appliances such as vacuum cleaners and air cleaner-filters. Using a multiplicity of furnace filters, as I proposed, apparently wasn't a good idea. Perhaps the most thought-provoking reply came from a yeast geneticist who cultures as a daily task at work. He never uses a hood, and has had very few problems with contamination. His home-culturing record is perfect. His success is based on good technique as opposed to special equipment. Here is his list of do's and don'ts: "1) dont touch, sneeze blow or cough exposed media. (liquid or solid) 2) use a flame from a lighter to sterilize lips of bottles and inoculating loops 3) be aware that most of the potential contamination is not comming from the air, but rather from your hands, the floor, the table etc. Therefore, whenever you set something down, you must flame it again. It really helps to wipe down the area with some ethanol or lysol. 4) when keeping plates or slants in the fridge, cover them well. The fridge is teeming with greedy mold spores." Another excellent point he made is well-taken: "If you choose to go ahead with the hood idea, be aware that is it is constructed impropperly, you will end up blowing aroung bacteria and spores, which may make your problem worse!!" ***** Ken Schwartz El Paso, TX KennyEddy at aol.com http://members.aol.com/kennyeddy Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 16:26:05 -0600 From: "Brian M. Rezac" <brian at aob.org> Subject: AHA Guidelines (part 1) In response to Dave Draper's comments on the AHA's Beer Style Guidelines in Homebrew Digest #2507, I would like to first post the Introduction of the Association of Brewer's Beer Style Guidelines to give everyone a better understanding of the basis of the guidelines and how changes are made to them. I will then post my direct response to Dave's comments. Thanks, Brian Rezac, Administrator, AHA ==================================================== Association of Brewer's Beer Style Guidelines Introduction by Charlie Papazian and James Spence. Since 1979, the Association of Brewers has provided beer style descriptions as a reference for brewers and beer competition organizers. The task of creating a realistic set of guidelines is always complex. The beer style guidelines developed for the Association of Brewers use sources from the commercial brewing industry, beer analyses, and consultations with beer industry experts as resources for information. The Association of Brewers' beer style guidelines have, as much as possible, historical significance or a high profile in the current commercial beer market. Often, the historical significance is not clear, or a new beer in a current market may only be a passing fad, and thus, quickly forgotten. Another factor considered is that current commercial examples do not always fit well into the historical record, and instead represent a modern reincarnation of the style. Our decision to include a particular historical beer style takes into consideration the style's brewing traditions and the need to preserve those traditions in today's market. The more a beer style has withstood the test of time and marketplace and consumer acceptance, the more likely it is to be included in the Association of Brewers' style guidelines. The availability of commercial examples plays a large role in whether or not a beer style "makes the list." It is important to consider that not every historical or commercial beer style can be included, nor is every commercial beer representative of the historical tradition (i.e., a brewery labeling a brand as a particular style does not always indicate a fair representation of that style). Please note that almost all of these beer style guidelines have been cross referenced with data from commercially available beers representative of the style. The data referenced for this purpose has been Professor Anton Piendl's comprehensive work published in the German Brauindustrie magazine through the years 1982 through 1994, from the series "Biere Aus Aller Welt." If you have suggestions for adding or changing a style guideline, write to us, making sure to include reasons and documentation for why you think the style should be included. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 16:26:41 -0600 From: "Brian M. Rezac" <brian at aob.org> Subject: AHA Guidelines (part 2) In HBD #2507, Dave Draper wrote: > I have never commented on the AHA's perceived shortcomings, although > much of the writing I have seen on the subject has struck a chord with > me. But this just makes me quite agitated. If GEORGE FIX has to dumb > down a recipe to meet an AHA guideline, something is very, very wrong, > and I say it sure as hell ain't George's concept of what constitutes > Koelsch! > > This is not the first example that has been noted about problems > with the AHA guidelines. I don't much care about the political > contentiousness that has arisen regarding the AHA, but when it comes > the nuts and bolts of beer in this way, it makes me think enough > is enough. An alternative is called for. Who's with me? First of all, I would like to thank Dave for using the term "perceived shortcomings". I won't tell you that the AHA is perfect. We do have "shortcomings", but, in this case, it's only a misperception. The AHA Style Guidelines are just that, guidelines. Style categories have been changed, tweeked, added, eliminated and/or moved just about every year since the AOB started publishing them in 1979. These changes don't happen easily, nor should they. But, if you read the last sentence of my posting, "AHA Guidelines (part 1)", you will see that we actually ask for suggestions for changes or additions. We do, however, ask that you back up your suggestion with reasons and documentation. Let me also add that we base the AHA Style Guidelines on the AOB's Beer Style Guidelines to create a similar standard for both, professional brewers and homebrewers. We also publish the AHA Style Guidelines, with any changes, once a year to prevent confusion as to which style guidelines version is to be used in any particular year. Now lets talk about the Koelsch category and George Fix. I am not certain that you actually compared Dr. Fix's numbers to that of the AHA Style Guidelines. They are actually not that far off. When I saw this, I called Dr. Fix and asked him what he meant by "completely out of category as far as the AHA guidelines are concerned". He said that what he meant by using the word, "completely", is that the Koelsch-style beer brewed by Kurfursten in Bonn is not far out of the AHA specs, but rather, it is a little bit out in three different areas; Original Gravity, IBU's and Color. At this point, I would like to officially agree with Dave on George Fix's "concept of what constitutes Koelsch". Dr. Fix is one of the industry experts that we consult with as resources for information. And, as a matter of fact, Charlie Papazian consulted with Gerorge Fix as to the changes in the Koelsch category for the 1998 version of the AOB's Beer Style Guidelines, which has already been published. The good news is that the Koelsch category did change. The system works. George Fix is thrilled. Brewers everywhere will benefit. I would personally like to thank George Fix for his help. I would also like to thank Dave Draper for bringing this subject to the forum. Though I would like to add that before you get "agitated", look into things. Give us a call. We have a completely new staff here at the AHA and we are actually listening to brewers more than is "perceived". I have included the Koelsch category specifications of the 1997 & 1998 AHA Style Guidelines and George Fix's "beloved Kurfursten". 1997 AHA Style Guidelines 1.042-46 O.G. (10.5-11.5 P) 20-30 IBUs 4-5 SRM (7-10 EBC) Kurfursten 1.050 O.G. (12.5 P) 32 IBUs 6 SRM (12 EBC) 1998 AHA Style Guidelines 1.042-48 O.G. (10.5-12 P) 20-32 IBUs 3.5-6 SRM (7-12 EBC) Thanks for you time (and bandwidth). - Brian Brian Rezac Administrator American Homebrewers Association (303) 447-0816 x 121 (voice) 736 Pearl Street (303) 447-2825 (fax) PO Box 1679 brian at aob.org (e-mail) Boulder, CO 80306-1679 info at aob.org (aob info) U.S.A. http://beertown.org (web) Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 17:43:50 -0400 (EDT) From: "Paul A. Hausman" <paul at lion.com> Subject: Belgian XMass Beer Suggestions I am planning my 1997 Christmas beer, and this year hope to produce a mildly spiced, high gravity beer similar to many of the Belgian Christmas Ales. (Last 3 years have been Brittish styles and I and my X-Mass-gift-list-beer-drinkers have tired of them.) I typically use Wyeast yeasts, and they offer quite a variety of belgian ales, more than one designated for higher gravity brews (surprise?). Does anyone have experience with more than one of these who can offer some comparisons, favorites, horror stories, etc. Private e-mail is fine. If there is any interest, I will be happy to summarize for the list. TIA. - -- Paul A. Hausman <Paul at Lion.com> Lion Technology Inc., Lafayette, NJ, USA Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 20:08:51 -0300 From: "David L. Thomson" <dlt at ici.net> Subject: Reusing/ saving Yeast Hello fellow brewers, My first all grain batch is going rather nicely thanks for all your help over the last two months. The only problem was my wife asking when I would be done in the kitchen. (I didn't really tell her how long an all grain batch takes... I focused on how much cheeper it would be!!) My next question is the american ale yeast I am using is wonderful! And I would like to reuse it. Is this possible? How do I do it? How long is the yeast good for? etc. Thanks Dave Thomson dlt at ici.net Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 14:57:08 -0600 From: jlandrem at atmel.com (John Landreman) Subject: homebrew club liability Greetings, There have been a couple posting lately about homebrew clubs. I would be interested in hearing how different clubs handle the question of personal liability. I would guess that the biggest potential problem would be a club member being involved in a traffic accident that resulted in a personal injury after having too much to drink at a club meeting. There was an article in the Summer 1995 issue of Zymurgy that discussed incorporating your club as a non-profit corporation. By doing this, the corporation can be sued but in most cases the individual officers can not. Do many clubs go through this trouble or do they just keep their fingers crossed that they won't run into any legal problems? Is it possible to include a waiver in the club charter stating that club members accept responsibility for their own actions so that they, or theirs family, can not sue the club (and it's officers) if they are seriously injured or die in an accident after a meeting? As a club officer I find these questions very interesting. Cheers, John Landreman Colorado Springs, CO Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 21:32:19 -0500 From: Jim Wallace <jwallace at crocker.com> Subject: Re:Converting pre-boil SG to post-boil SG Loren Asks: >Does anyone have a formula for predicting the SG of 6 gallons (post-boil) >of wort on the basis of a pre-boil measurement? I don't like to take >measurements after the boil, if I can help it, because of sanitation. - --------------------------------------------------------------------- the relationship of your PreBoil SG vs PostBoil SG is very easy to figure if you consider gravity as a factor of volume (total gravity points_TGP). simply multiply your PreBoil SG by your PreBoil Vol to get your TGP.. to get the PostBoil SG simply divide by your PostBoil vol PreBoilVol x PreBoilSG=TGP=PostBoilVol x PostBoilSG ..example.. Preboil 7.25G at SG 48 =348 TGP .. divide this TGP by 6G (PostBoil Vol) and your PostBoil gravity is 58 (1.058) this is a very important calc and can be very useful in hitting your target final gravity for fermentation. It can be used to determine how much extract to add to get to a higher gravity, how much more needs to be boiled off to get a higher gravity or how much water to add to get a lower gravity. ___________________________________________ JIM WALLACE ... jwallace at crocker.com www.crocker.com/~jwallace ___________________________________________ Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 02:41:11 GMT From: mra at skyfry.com (Matthew Arnold) Subject: Munich / IPA / LABCO First of all, thanks to everyone who responded to my requests regarding Munich malt mashing temps. FWIW, I will probably do a single saccrification rest, or maybe one at 130-135 briefly. This is only a 1-2 pound mash so it's overall impact is small. Thanks also to everyone who replied about my IPA. The bitterness level was decent, but I was disappointed in the Willamette as a flavor/aroma hop. This is a personal opinion thing. I had the opportunity to tour Summit Brewing in the Twin Cities this past weekend and chat with the head brewer. Their very tasty IPA is hopped with all East Kent Goldings. I may try that for my next batch, even if it means using a ton of them. If you are in the Twin Cities area, check out their tour. I also had the opportunity to visit Sherlock's Home brewpub. To my surprise and delight, their seasonal brew is a Duesseldorf-style Altbier! Eagerly, I ordered a pint. It was very nicely malty with a pleasing noble-hop bitterness. In my mind's eye (tongue?) this is the Altbier I've been trying to brew. Highly recommended. Quoting the Russ Loub of LABCO tirade: >Personally, I have more important things to do than waste my time on the >internet so you won't be hearing from me again, ever. Get a life. As a man of the cloth (I am a Lutheran minister) my strong theological beliefs prevent me from using the adjective I would most like to use to describe Mr. Loub's ad hominem riddled tirade. There is no one who is more happy than I that we will never be graced with Mr. Loub's presence again in this forum. As far as any "organized" response on the part of the HBD, I think the Scriptures say it best, "Do not answer a fool according to his folly, or you will be like him yourself." (Proverbs 26:4 NIV) It's enough to make a guy want to talk about botulism! Matt Return to table of contents
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