---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com


Contents:
  RE:  Reverse Osmosis Water ("Kris Jacobs")
  LABCO Legal Banter ("Jay Spies")
  Re: pantyhose beer (Mark T A Nesdoly)
  Re: homebrew club liability ("Joel Plutchak")
  yeast sludge and kegging ("Anton Verhulst")
  2nd Annual Music City Brew-off (Steve)
  Home-Made RO Water (KennyEddy)
  RE:  Full volume boil and hop utilization (Danny Breidenbach)
  HBD Meeting at GABF (Alpinessj)
  Little Apple Brewing Company ("A.S. Tomb")
  Newcastle & Brown Sugar (OCaball299)
  steam generators ("MICHAEL L. TEED")
  BJCP Study Guide/ Plastic Quick-Connects (Wade Hutchison)
  Little Apple Brewery (Norm Pyle)
  Color as calculated vs. real in glass ("Michel J. Brown")
  St. Louis Micro/Pico Brewery ("Ernst, Joseph G.")
  Keg Conversions (David Root)
  More HBD at GBDF, Hazelnut Porter (Mark Tumarkin)
  Beer Stores (john woolsey)
  Preparing Yeast culture media ??? (Jim Wallace)
  RO units 101 (Gary Knull)
  BJCP Exam Study (Peter M Garofalo)
  RE: homebrew club liabiity ("Neil E. Okamoto")
  half full carboys for aerating (Mike Allred)
  Wyeast's pLambic Blend -- Which bacteria does it contain? (Jean-Sebastien and Melanie)
  Little Apple Brewing (Rick Olivo)
  Yeast shock (Jeff Renner)
  Pantyhose etc. (aquinn)
  Peach State Brewoff results (egross)
  Fermentation Temp Profiles (Charlie Scandrett)


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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 09:52:27 +0000
From: "Kris Jacobs" <jtsnake at serv01.net-link.net>
Subject: RE:  Reverse Osmosis Water

Scott Bridges wrote:
> 
> Speaking of RO water, I saw a home RO set up in the local home
> improvement store (Lowe's, my home away from home).  It was about $200
> bucks.  I don't recall the manufacturer.  Anyone familiar with these
> kinds of units?  How good are they really?  My water is really high in
> carbonates, which makes it less than optimal brewing water.  I use an
> under-sink filter now, but I know I'm still off the temporary hardness
> chart.  I have to acidify the #%&$ out of my brewing water.  If it
> really does take all the ions out of the water, I'd consider buying it.
> In addition to having better brewing water (can anybody say "pilsner?"),
> it would get rid of all that chalky-lookin' stuff (calcium carbonate?)
> that deposits on and corrodes my plumbing fixtures.  Anybody use one of
> these, or know how they operate?
> 
> TIA,
> Scott

I am getting an under-the-sink RO unit Monday morning.  I just had to 
replace the water softener in my apartment building.  I got a few 
bids, and ended up forking over the $3000 for a Kinetico water 
conditioner.  We have got the best water now outta the tap ever.  In 
speaking with my local Kinetico dealer, he said that they _rent_  
Kinetico RO units, too.  (Right when he saw my Culligan water 
cooler...  ;)
My ground water is hard as hell & full of iron -- I made a batch 
shortly after the old water softener failed and the mash water turned 
the color of amber ale once it got hot -- yuk!  I am looking forward 
to brewing Monday nite with some High Quality water.
 
If you're gonna go RO, I wouldn't get an el-cheapo from Lowe's.  
The Kinetico RO is $1000 for an outright buy -- I am renting mine for 
20 bucks a month, and I am responsible for changing filters.  It 
would be 25 bucks a month to have my dealer's guys do it.  I am not 
affiliated with Kinetico in anyway other than being a very impressed 
and happy customer.  Check 'em out -- it's worth having good water:  
http://www.kinetico.com

Kris Jacobs
JPA Mash Works
Galesburg, MI


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Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 10:16:06 +0000
From: "Jay Spies" <spiesjl at mda.state.md.us>
Subject: LABCO Legal Banter

All -

There has been much discussion recently centered around the 
"ownership" of Rob's BW recipie, and its subsequent posting on the 
internet.  Since several legal threads have surfaced, I thought that 
I would chime in with my .02, being a lawyer.  The question of who 
owns the intellectual property rights to the BW recipie depends 
greatly *when* that recipie was made.  If it was made on Little Apple 
time, using Little Apple facilities and workspace, etc., then Mr. 
Loeb(?) does in fact own the recipie.  (Bear in mind that I still 
strongly feel that he is a prick of herculean proportions, and has 
absolutely no business conducting brewing of any sort).  If however, 
the recipie was formulated on Rob's own time (at home, or otherwise) 
then HE owns it.  The fact that Little Apple brewed the recipie in 
its brewery using Rob's recipie does not convert its ownership.  All 
things being equal, I'm betting that being the gentleman that he is, 
Rob will be content to let this issue go to its final resting place.  
Sorry for the bandwidth, but I just wanted to weigh in.  BTW, boycott 
away on Little Apple.  I hope they go under.  Also, thanks for the 
many responses I received to my post about 10-gallon Gott coolers.  I 
just ordered 2 from Wal-Mart online (www.wal-mart.com) if anyone is 
interested.

Brew away . . .
Jay Spies


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Date-warning: Date header was inserted by mail.usask.ca
From: Mark T A Nesdoly <mtn290 at mail.usask.ca>
Subject: Re: pantyhose beer

Al Korzonas warns against the use of pantyhose for a hop bag in HBD #2510.

I've extensively used pantyhose as a hop bag, but for dry hopping in a corny
keg only.  I'd tend to agree that actually boiling the pantyhose would
release some dye into the wort, but I suppose that you could avoid that by
buying undyed pantyhose.  My fiancee assures me that such a thing exists, so
you should be able to find it.

- -- Mark

[And I haven't noticed any off-flavours or dye in the beers that I
dry-hopped using this methpodjsfpkdsj afkdfmksv ;las
fklz;' xckA dfSS>KDfgklsjs .,SDVF;KSJSDKN.V,.ksdgjgklx vnvm, 


Why am I naked in front of the computer?


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Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 09:45:41 -0500
From: "Joel Plutchak" <joel at bolt.atmos.uiuc.edu>
Subject: Re: homebrew club liability

   In HBD #2510, John Landreman <jlandrem at atmel.com> asks about
personal liability for homebrew club members/officers, and
specifically mentions a waiver and incorporation.
   Our club here has been talking about it for awhile, and I've
looked into the mechanics (not the legal aspects) of the situation
just a bit.  My tenuous understanding is that a waiver is worth
roughly the same amount as the ink that's used to sign it (though
we did add a disclaimer to our membership form this year much like
the competition judge waiver).
   I also found that it costs $50 to incorporate (in IL), and
$150 to apply for non-profit status from the IRS.  For a small
club like ours, that's a pretty hefty chunk of our budget.
   In short, I'm extremely interested in hearing more about both
the legal and tax ramifications of running a homebrew club.
- --
Joel Plutchak
Boneyard Union of Zymurgical Zealots (B.U.Z.Z.)
Champaign, Illinois

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Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 11:17:54 -0400
From: "Anton Verhulst" <verhulst at zk3.dec.com>
Subject: yeast sludge and kegging



>Survey Said: Only issue is possibility of sediment.  A yeasty beer or
>two was tolerable to some, not others.  Simplest advice - rack when
>primary is clear, make sure to leave sediment behind - i.e. don't get
>greedy for that last bit of green beer out of the primary and end up
>getting sludge!

I hate wasting any beer - I worked hard to make it.  I too rack into the
keg when the primary is pretty clear and am careful not to pick up any sediment.
I then take the remains from the fermenter, store it in a pot that will
fit in the fridge, and let it settle for a few days.  With a small diameter
hose, I then transfer the beer into a 2 liter soda bottle, attach a
"Carbonator", force carbonate, and serve.  I've recovered as much as 3
liters of beer from a 10 gallon batch this way.

- --Tony V

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Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 10:28:14 -0500 (CDT)
From: Steve <JOHNSONS at UANSV5.VANDERBILT.EDU>
Subject: 2nd Annual Music City Brew-off

Apparently in our post earlier about the 2nd Annual Music City Brew-off on
October 25, our server spit out a minor error in our address for our webpage:

The correct URL for our webpage and information about the competition should
be:

http://theporch.com/~homebrew1

Sorry for any inconvenience this may have caused anyone!
Steve Johnson, Pres
Music City Brewers
Nashville, TN

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Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 12:00:16 -0400 (EDT)
From: KennyEddy at aol.com
Subject: Home-Made RO Water

Scott Bridges asked about the $200 RO water filters for home use.

Using RO water for brewing (and usually adding salts) is a great way to
control the quality of the most abundant ingredient in your beer -- water.
 But for my money, I'll spend 20 minutes at lunchtime driving to the local
casa de agua and filling my two 5-gallon plastic carboys with RO water for 30
cents a gallon.  Since I use about 10 gallons of brewing water per brew, it
would take me 67 batches to start to see "return" on a $200 investment.

Another potential shortcoming with RO filters is that they only produce a few
gallons a day.  You'll have to process & store your water for a couple days
leading up to brewday.

I know of one HBD-frequenter who uses a home RO filter, and I assume there
must be others; maybe they could comment on their experiences.

*****

Ken Schwartz
El Paso, TX
KennyEddy at aol.com
http://members.aol.com/kennyeddy


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Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 12:20:20 -0400
From: Danny Breidenbach <dbreidenbach at nctm.org>
Subject: RE:  Full volume boil and hop utilization

The URL to the hop FAQ gave me more than I bargained for, personally. 
Getting back to Jeff's original question though, to which I can relate,
how about a qualitative, rule-of-thumb kind of answer to the question: 
how much should I adjust hopping when doing a full boil as opposed to
the partial boil usually associated with extract brewing?  Speaking as a
homebrewer who would dream of a 122 degree rest, and who rarely checks
S.G., I'd simply like to know *about* how much to fudge things so an old
favorite extract/partial boil recipe doesn't totally knock my socks off
with hoppiness when I attempt an all-grain/full boil version.

Whatever happened to seat o' the pants brewing, anyway?
- --Danny Boy

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Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 12:42:46 -0400 (EDT)
From: Alpinessj at aol.com
Subject: HBD Meeting at GABF

I think that is a great idea. As, for the place, I found a good one last
night - The Falling Rock, in LoDo, about a block away from Coors Field. 

KROC - Keg Ran Out Homebrew Club had a meeting there last night. The
owner/mgr of the place is a really nice guy (unlike the owner of LABC), the
place is new and he needs the business, it is big enough for a LARGE crowd
(Two stories, plus outdoor patio), and (best for last) has 69 TAPS!!! (no
bud-coor-millors). If you are not sold yet, one of the taps is Anchor Old
Foghorn which they serve in PINTS FOR $3.50!!!

Someone mentioned a time of Thursday, Oct 2nd at 8:00 pm. Sound good to me.

Now, how do we reach a consensus? Do we want to vote? If so, a "YEAH for
Falling Rock" would do in your normal postings (we don't want a repeat of the
BT thread with Falling Rock).

If we decide on Falling Rock, I will post directions and phone number later.

Cheers,

Scott Jackson
Denver, CO

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Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 11:48:34 -0500 (CDT)
From: "A.S. Tomb" <astomb at ksu.edu>
Subject: Little Apple Brewing Company

Greetings Homebrewers:
        I have read with interest and even amusement what has been written
about the Little Apple Brewing Company, the barleywine and LABC's former
brewer, Rob Moline.  At first I found it interesting what people would write
who had strong feelings and little information, but then it turned nasty,
cluttered the mailbox of a former student and even suggested a boycott of my
favorite watering hole.  This thread no longer serves the purpose of the
HBD. There are two sides to the story.  
         I have been a frequent visitor at the Little Apple Brewing Co for
over two years.  I know and like Rob Moline.   He is an excellent craft
brewer  who was able to turn out consistently fine beer under less than
ideal conditions.  He is extremely knowledgable about brewing craft beer.
Rob was very generous to share things with me as I started to homebrew.  I
am glad he never kept count of the the questions I asked.  He was good for
the "hombrewing community" of Manhattan, Kansas.  I miss him and his family
and I am probably going to miss his beers too.   
        I was very sad to see him leave, but I was sadder still to see the
way that he left.  I think he let his frustrations and anger with the
manager cloud his judgement.  He took the awards that were won by the
brewery while he was the brewer, cancelled the brewery's entries to the GABF
and was disruptive as he removed his personal property from the bar and
brewery.  
        There has been anger, frustration and wrong doing on both sides. We
could have lost the brewery in this flap.  I am thankful that the management
of the Little Apple Brewing Company has chosen to continue the brewing of
craft beer.  The new brewer Bret Kimbrough, who was trained by Rob Moline,
has two of his beers on line ( a wheat and a IPA) and several in
conditioning.  The beer is slightly different but still very good.  The pale
ale is thinner and will not hold up the stout.  I am looking forward to his
changes.
        I think that calls for a boycott from a 1,000 miles away by a person
who has never set foot in our brewpub and  who does not understand the
complexities of this situation is an over reaction at best.(If  you never
set foot in Kansas, it will not bother me.)  I think that the name calling
and cluttering of a student's mailbox are very wrong it should stop.  It is
time to move on. Rob has.  We have at the bar. 

Spencer Tomb 
Homebrewer 
Continuing Patron of the Little Apple Brewing Company 


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Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 15:22:07 -0400 (EDT)
From: OCaball299 at aol.com
Subject: Newcastle & Brown Sugar

Dear collective,

First and foremost I would like to thank those of you who have responded to
my queestion about maintaing Lager temps in summer.  I'll let you know what I
decide to do, but since I live in the Chicago area, I might just wait 10
minutes to let the weather change.

Secondly, I have another question.  Below is a recipe I found, I think in the
Cats Meow... for a newcastle extract clone.  I have a friend who has reviewed
it and suggests I reduce the Chocolate amount and add Brown Sugar.  I also
have another source who says that Brown Sugar is BAD for homebrew and would
substitute Molasses...

I would appreciate any input anyone can provide.  I would like to make this
batch soon.

*****************************************
Brown Ale

Classification: brown ale, Newcastle clone, extract 

Source: Horacio Lertora (NHOMEBREW at ids.net), r.c.b, 5/15/96 

This is very similar to Newcastle. 

Ingredients:

1 can Munton's Plain Amber Malt Extract 3.3 lbs
2 lbs. Munton's Plain Light Dry Malt Extract 
1 lb. Crushed Grain Mix (1/2 50 L Crystal & 1/2 Chocolate) 
2 oz. Willamette Whole Flower Hops 4.9% 
Prime with 3/4 cup Corn Sugar 
1 teaspoon irish moss 1/2 way thru boil 
WYeast #1028 London Ale or RTP English Ale Yeast 

Procedure:

Steep grain until boiling, remove - add extracts - bring to boil, drop in
hops for entire 45 min. boil (irish moss 25 min. into boil) 2 weeks
fermentation. 2 weeks bottled. All at room temp. 

Specifics:

O.G. 1.046 
F.G. 1.015 
*****************************************

TIA
Omar Caballero - Aurora, IL

"Today is only yesterday's tommorrow" - Uriah Heep
(So have another Homebrew)

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Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 14:34:49 -0500
From: "MICHAEL L. TEED" <MS08653 at msbg.med.ge.com>
Subject: steam generators

 .int homebrew at hbd.org

 Can someone direct me to any web sites related to using steam generators
 for mashing? I recall some discussions in the past and would be interested
 in checking them out. TIA.

 Mike Teed


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Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 15:45:01 -0400
From: Wade Hutchison <whutchis at bucknell.edu>
Subject: BJCP Study Guide/ Plastic Quick-Connects

>
>Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 11:32:30 -0400 (EDT)
>From: "Randy A. Shreve" <rashreve at interpath.com>
>Subject: WANTED:  A step by step BJCP study guide
>
>Fellow beer lovers:
>
>At a recent meeting of the Carolina BrewMasters in Charlotte, NC, I was
>discussing
>preparation for the BJCP exam with a fellow member.  He had recently taken
>the test
>with less than stellar results (I haven't taken the plunge yet myself!).
>
>Tim had a great idea:  a step by step study guide is needed!  I have seen
>the BJCP 
What about the article in the May-August Brewing Techniques - the author 
presented a study guide, and some essay advice.  Check it out.


>
>Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 12:02:31 -0500
>From: djt2 at po.cwru.edu (Dennis J. Templeton)
>Subject: US Plastics for valves, connects, fittings
>
>Two queries asked for sources of plastic valves and quick disconnects. A
>fine source is US Plastics; 1-800-537-9724. If it's plastic, they have it.
>
>Dennis

I just got a catalog at work from Omega Engineering "New Horizon's in Fluid
Handling Special ed. vol 16, No. 2. " which has a full line of Thermoplastic
Couplings (in PolySulfone, which is listed as repeated autoclave capable,
chemical resistant and designed for food and beverage serving, good for 
100 psi (!) up to 280 F).  These are available in sizes from 3/8" up to 
3/4" with NPT or hose-barb fittings or Garden Hose connections in 3/4".
Fittings average $10.00 for the body and $6.00 for the insert, and come in
full flow or shut-off versions.  I intend to pick some up for the RIMS system
that I'm working on.
Omega can be reached at 1-800-826-6342, and takes Visa/MC.  Call, and I
believe
that they'll send you catalogs for free (we certainly get enough of them
around
here for nothing)
Omega also sells thermocouples, pressure guages, termostats, PID
controllers, you
name it in sensors, they sell it.
	-----wade


	whutchis at bucknell.edu
	Wade Hutchison, College Engineer
	Bucknell University, College of Engineering
	http://www.eg.bucknell.edu/~whutchis

	

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Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 14:23:53 -0600
From: Norm Pyle <normanp at gr.hp.com>
Subject: Little Apple Brewery

I haven't posted to the HBD in quite some time, but I just
had to comment on this Little Apple fiasco.  During the
initial research for my Brewing Techniques column on Little
Apple (written by Curt Schroeder) I heard stories about
the GM at Little Apple.  Frankly, at the time, I thought
they were overblown.  After the recent HBD posting, it has
become crystal clear that what I heard at the time was
politely filtered to avoid revealing the true nature of
this guy.  His online tirade proved to me that Rob Moline,
at the time, was biting his lip to keep from telling us
what he really thought, and is, IMO, a true gentleman.

Rob was revealed to me as a very good brewer, a hard
worker, and ingenious in his ability to turn a non-
existant budget (controlled by guess who?) into a gem of
a brewpub.  I wish him well in his new life.  As for
Little Apple, as hard as Curt and I worked on that article,
I can actually say I'm sorry it is in print with my name
associated with it.  At least Rob was shown in a good light,
which is something he deserves.

Sorry to litter the HBD with this non-brewing subject matter.

Cheers,
Norm
norm_pyle at bigfoot.com

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Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 04:13:53 -0700
From: "Michel J. Brown" <hommade at spiritone.com>
Subject: Color as calculated vs. real in glass


I just got my English Brown Ale ready for consumption, and noticed that it
seems a bit lighter than you would have expected, given the grain bill.The
SRM (calculated) was supposed to be 16.9, a coppery amber color. Yet it
appears to be about the color of a light English mild, around 10-12 SRM
IMHO. The IBU's were spot on at 20.6, and the beer tastes great, just paler
than what you would think given that I added 1/4# of C120, 1/4# of
CaraMunich, and 3/4# of Victory and Aromatic (each) to 8# of DWC Pale Ale.
I even boiled for 90 minutes, so as to improve melanoidin production, yet
still I feel that it might be a bit darker than what I actually got. Btw,
the Entire Firken Butt Porter turned out awesomely, albeit a tad darker for
a Brown Porter (yeah, I know, but I don't like two threads!) at 45.2 SRM
(dark, but clear). Any ideas on what gives with the Brown Ale? TTYAL, God
Bless, and ILBCNU!

			    Dr. Michel J. Brown, D.C.
        		              homemade at spiritone.com 
	           http://www.spiritone.com/~homemade/index.html
	               "Big Man don't drink no stinking light beer!"
                           "Big Man drink beer what got BIG TASTE!"
                                       Big Man Brewing (R) 1996

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Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 15:53:29 -0500
From: "Ernst, Joseph G." <ernstjg at Maritz.com>
Subject: St. Louis Micro/Pico Brewery

Eric Schoville writes:

>	I am on business in St. Louis.  I've tried Morgan Street 
>Brewery (Average Beer, Great Food) and the Taproom (Good-Excellent 
>Beer, Good Food).  Any other recommendations?

I am certainly not a beer expert, but I have had very good beer and food
at Trailhead Brewing Co.  They are located in St. Charles on Riverside
drive (about 15 minutes from the airport).  I think the beer at the
Taproom is superior, but not by a large margin.  

Joe Ernst
ernstjg at maritz.com


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Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 19:30:23 -0400
From: David Root <droot at concentric.net>
Subject: Keg Conversions

        I am a welder, and I don't use bulkhead fittings.  I just
drilled a hole in the bottom above the seam, and used pipe 
fittings and flat washers.  Then I can take it apart for cleaning
If i want to.  A Plasma cutter is the only way to go to cut the
top out of a keg.  Less than 5 minutes for 2 kegs.  Should 
cost the shops minum charge or some homebrew.  Be sure to
leave the beer in the keg or put some water in to avoid spatter
stuck inside the keg.
David Root Lockport NY     droot at concentric.net


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Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 19:52:46 -0400
From: Mark Tumarkin <tumarkin at mindspring.com>
Subject: More HBD at GBDF, Hazelnut Porter

Hi all,

I have been talking to Ken Schwartz about options for a HBD meeting at the
GABF, we have been tossing several options around, including the
possibility of meeting at my hotel room if the local brew-pubs were too
crowded. Brian Rezac of the AHA has also emailed me about this. He and Jim
Parker have come up with a terrific option. I won't say more about it until
he let's me know if he wants to post about it himself, or have me forward
on his idea. One of us will post about it shortly.

In reference to the flack the AHA has taken here in the past, I would agree
with Brian's post in response to Dave Draper's concerns about the AHA style
standards - give them a chance. It is a new group of people, and Brian (at
least) is interested and responsive. Obviously, by looking at his posts, he
reads and participates in the HBD - both in his official capacity and also
as a homebrewer. He has responded to my recent question concerning what
catagory to enter my "hoppy porter". Obviously I also have concerns about
style catagories and would like to see some changes. The ideal thing would
be to have the AHA folks be both active homebrewers and responsive to our
concerns - so far Brian seems to fit the bill. 

- -------

On another more directly brewing-oriented note, a while back I had posted
concerning a batch of Hazelnut Porter I had made. I had used a hazelnut
extract  and was unhappy about the results. There was too much of a sweet
"extract" flavor. It was drinkable, but not terrific. It was bottled in
June of 1996. Most of it was consumed (or I must admit that I gave away a
fair amount of it at X-mas in some mixed sampler sixpack gifts). Well, I
had a few bottles sitting at the back of the fridge and hadn't had any for
a long while. 

Last night I pulled one out. What a pleasant surprise. Aging for over a
year had taken all the "extract" taste away. It now has a very pleasing
nutty flavor with a woody character that was extremely nice. I should say
it "had" a pleasing flavor because I've already finished the last couple of
bottles and wish I had more! This was one beer that extended aging really
improved.


Mark Tumarkin
The Brewery in the Jungle

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Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 20:17:50 -0500
From: john woolsey <woolz at arn.net>
Subject: Beer Stores

        I will be in Denver for the GABF and would like to find out if a
local could tell me where a good liquor store to find rare brews is located.
Close to downtown? I would like to find some lambic. Private email ok.
cheers 


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Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 20:40:39 -0500
From: Jim Wallace <jwallace at crocker.com>
Subject: Preparing Yeast culture media ???

Looking for help from the yeast ranchers out there... I have been culturing
my own yeast for a while now but am still having a major problem in
preparing the media.

It seems when I prepare the agar and pour it into the tubes or petri dishes
I get a LOT of condensation.  I prepare the media in a pressure cooker and
leave the caps cracked open 1/4-1/2 a turn but the condensation never goes
away. the dishes are even worse even though I let the agar cool down to a
point where I can easily hold it before I pour. 

What do others do to eliminate this problem.   
___________________________________________
       JIM WALLACE ... jwallace at crocker.com
               www.crocker.com/~jwallace  
___________________________________________


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Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 20:10:39 -0600
From: Gary Knull <gknull at gpu.srv.ualberta.ca>
Subject: RO units 101

Scott wrote,

>Speaking of RO water, I saw a home RO set up in the local home
>improvement store (Lowe's, my home away from home).  It was about $200
>bucks.  I don't recall the manufacturer.  Anyone familiar with these
>kinds of units?  How good are they really?  My water is really high in
>carbonates, which makes it less than optimal brewing water.  I use an
>under-sink filter now, but I know I'm still off the temporary hardness
>chart.  I have to acidify the #%&$ out of my brewing water.  If it
>really does take all the ions out of the water, I'd consider buying it.
>In addition to having better brewing water (can anybody say "pilsner?"),
>it would get rid of all that chalky-lookin' stuff (calcium carbonate?)
>that deposits on and corrodes my plumbing fixtures.  Anybody use one of
>these, or know how they operate?

1. A whole-house RO unit to save your pipes would be prohibitively
expensive. Forget that.

2. RO filters use a semi-permeable membrane through which water is forced
under pressure.  Pure water passes through the membrane while the dissolved
and particulate materials are left behind. This material is constantly
washed away by a flow of water that goes to the sewer, called reject water.
The amount of reject water is 70 - 90 % of the feed water; you only get 10 -
30 % as product water. This is one reason it would be expensive to have a
whole-house system.

3. RO membranes are damaged by chlorine and by feedwater temperatures above
80F and by hydrogen sulfide,  and by pH not within the range for the
membrane. Salts, hardness, iron, etc., in the water will foul the membrane.
You will need a charcoal filter to take out the chlorine, then a water
softener to take out the minerals. RO membranes are made to take out the
sodium introduced by the water softener (they are often called desalination
systems).

4. Unless you're going to collect water for brewing over a period of hours,
you'll need a more powerful unit than the under-sink $200 variety. I have a
100 gallon per day unit (and a 12 gallon collection tank) that can nicely
keep up with my  four-batches-per-day brewing streaks plus all other
household drinking needs. The larger units have a pump that forces the water
through the membrane at about 200 lbs pressure and is more efficient, ie.
produces purer water, than the under sink units which depend on city water
pressure to operate.

5. Brace yourself. Sell the skiddoo or boat or something and shell out $500
for a water softener and $3000 for the industrial RO unit.

6. You might just decide that, unless you have more money than you know what
to do with,  acidifying your water is not too bad an idea. I used acid
myself for years, 30% suphuric or 80% phoshporic depending on the beer
style. Then you should have a pH meter to get accurate results, but pH
meters look cheap after this.


Gary Knull
Edmonton, Alberta


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Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 00:07:00 EDT
From: pgarofalo at juno.com (Peter M Garofalo)
Subject: BJCP Exam Study

Randy Shreve wites, in HBD #2510:

> a great idea:  a step by step study guide is needed!  I have seen
>the BJCP study guide available on the net.

Yes, such an *outline* exists: refer to Scott Bickham's article, "Master
the Essentials of Beer Evaluation--How to Prepare for and Pass the BJCP
Exam" in the May-August 1997 issue of Brewing Techniques (Vol. 5, Number
3). Scott is eminently qualified to offer study advice, as he is the one
who is responsible for putting the exam together.

The BJCP study guide is currently being re-written, with input from some
of the finest judges and brewers in the country.

Peter Garofalo
BJCP Exam Committee member
Syracuse, NY

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Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 02:13:11 -0700
From: "Neil E. Okamoto" <neilo at hooked.net>
Subject: RE: homebrew club liabiity


> There was an article in the Summer 1995 issue of Zymurgy that discussed
> incorporating your club as a non-profit corporation. By doing this, the
> corporation can be sued but in most cases the individual officers can not.

Are you sure about this? My recollection from my fraternity days is that the 
officers
could (and likely would) be named in any action against the chapter house.  I 
don't
remember non-profit status having any bearing one way or the other.



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Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 08:38:56 -0600
From: Mike Allred <mballred at xmission.com>
Subject: half full carboys for aerating

FWIW, I tried something last night that worked very well.  I have always had
a problem with getting enough oxygen into my wort.  Last night I racked a 5
gallon batch from my brew pot equally into two carboys.  The half full
carboys are a lot lighter (hence I can stand to shake them longer) and I
have a lot more air to mix with (verses the very small bubble that I usually
have with a full carboy).  After about 2 minutes of shaking the carboy was =
=BE
full with foam and wort.  I pitched my starter evenly between them and 7
hours latter I they were both bubbling away nicely.  I racked the wort from
one carboy into the other one and was able to leave behind the cold break
from one (another bonus since most of my break material was in the second
carboy).  This is the most effective way of aerating wort without pumps and
oxygen tanks that I have come across.  Of course I am always open to a
better way if you know of one.


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Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 14:16:34 -0400
From: Jean-Sebastien and Melanie <jsm-mv at geocities.com>
Subject: Wyeast's pLambic Blend -- Which bacteria does it contain?

I'm getting ready to age some barleywine in a french oak cask (I'm
ordering it on Monday), and I'd like to add a lactic/sour character to
it. My plan is to culture up a Wyeast pLambic blend and add it to the
cask. Hopefully the bacteria will impregnate the wood and I can simply
re-use this cask whenever I want to sour some beer (most of my porters,
stouts, old ales, and barleywines).

My questions are, which bacteria/yeast are in Wyeast's pLambic blend?
Which by-products/flavors can I expect besides Lactic Acid? How long
does the Wyeast pLambic inoculated beer need to be aged?

Thanks,
js.
- --
Jean-Sebastien and Melanie <mailto:jsm-mv at geocities.com>
Personal Home Page <http://www.geocities.com/NapaValley/5603/>
"Our Homebrewery, Award Winning Recipes, & Technical References"

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Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 16:42:23 -0500
From: Rick Olivo <ashpress at win.bright.net>
Subject: Little Apple Brewing

This is a copy of an e-mail I have sent to the owner of Little Apple
Brewing. As you may know, the new head brewer of this firm recently posted
on AOL a recipe created by the former head brewer, without his permission.
I believe this community should unite in our disapproval of this whole
shabby affair, the particulars of which have been a matter of some
discussion at this venue in recent days.

I read with dismay your words about homebrewers who use the internet, and
in particular the Home Brew Digest. Your intemperate remarks, your
appalling arrogance and the obnoxious manner in general with which you
stated your case strikes me as being extremely insulting and insures that I
will never visit your place of business, and I will actively do all in my
power to inform all of my friends that it would be in their best interests
to do likewise. You talk about the nature of business; many of your points
are quite correct. However, there seems to be one small point you seemed to
have missed. My father, an independent businessman himself, once told me
one of the most important things in business was "never shit in your own
nest." In otherwords, never insult the customers who keep you in business.
With your utterly insensitive remarks to the home brewing community that
uses HBD you have done just that. You are quite right. It is a free
country. In a free country, customers vote with their feet. When they walk
away from your place of business, perhaps you will understand the magnitude
of your error. As for Rob's ownership of the recipies he has come up with;
I suggest you more closely study the laws regarding intellectual property.
Unless you had a specific agreement with the gentleman, explicitly spelling
out this matter, I suspect you may be in for a rather rude shock. As far as
his awards, monetary and otherwise being the property of the business, in
law, you may be correct, but it strikes me as being rather "Scroogelike"
(not to mention unprofessional) to usurp credit for another man's work. As,
I may add, is the posting of Mr. Moline's recipie. Clearly this is an act
that is beyond the pale. Theft is theft, and the theft of intellectual
property no less than physical property. I am a writer. I make my living
with the words I wrtie. I work very hard to produce a salable product, and
I take umbrage when someone uses the results of my creative abilities
without my permission. I see no difference in the instant case; ordinary
decency requires you to seek the permission of a creator before using his
creation for your own ends. I shake my head at this whole sordid affair,
which is as contempable as any I have seen in a very long time. I feel you
have done the entire craft beer movement a distinct disservice. 

Rick Olivo/aka Strange Brewer

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Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 21:00:51 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu>
Subject: Yeast shock

A cautionary tale:

I guess I thought it couldn't happen to me.  I live a good life.  I love my
wife and kids.  I vote in all primary and general elections.  I brush after
every meal.  But it did happen.  Oh, the shame of it.  Shocked yeast!

It all began when I saved 600 ml of a German lager yeast from the primary
of a CAP under 300 ml beer at 38F.  After 6 weeks it still smelled good, so
I took half of it and added 500 ml wort plus yeast nutrient in a gallon jug
at 70F.  After 6 hours it was foamy.  After 24 hours, it was still foamy,
so I put it in the fridge for two days until I brewed (8 gallons of
Munchner dunkel), then pitched it in 52F wort.  I usually expect low
kraeusen 24 hrs after pitching this amount of yeast, but even after 60 hrs,
I got only a bubble or two with vigorous swirling of the carboys.  I must
have shocked the yeast by dropping it from 70F to 40F over only a few
hours.  Fortuunately, I still had the remaining 300 ml yeast, so I pitched
it, and after 24 hours had low kraeusen, and 6 hours later, high kraeusen.
I'm a little concerned about what might have been growing in my wort while
I was waiting for the yeast to take off, but hey, whatcha gonna do?

So, I guess the moral of the story is, don't drop the temperature of your
yeast too fast (I've heard 10F in 24 hours).  I'd played fast and loose
with this before and hadn't had trouble, but it caught up with me.  Perhaps
the yeast was weakened by the lost dormancy.  Hope the dunkel turns out OK.

Jeff

 -=-=-=-=-=-
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan c/o nerenner at umich.edu

"I have found that alcohol taken in sufficient quantity produces all the
effects of drunkenness."  Oscar Wilde (1854-1900), Irish author, playwright
and wit.



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Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 23:20:54 +0000
From: aquinn at postoffice.worldnet.att.net
Subject: Pantyhose etc.

On : Wed, 17 Sep 1997 14:13:14 -0500 (CDT)
korz at xnet.com discussed
> Subject: pantyhose beer

8< clip

This could bring a whole new meaning to the "entire butt" thread.

Cheers
Tony

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Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 00:35:01 -0400 (EDT)
From: egross at emory.edu
Subject: Peach State Brewoff results

 170 entries, 7 canceled-at-the-last-minute judges,2 no-show judges,half
the stewards flaked/spazed/forgot/blew us off. still,we persevered.The
winners please:
 AHA category,  winners followed by subcategory of winning beer

	1       1. joe merlino, athens,ga (1A)
		2. evan kraus, atlanta    (1B)
		3. gary michel, orlando,fl(1B)

	2/3	1. lawton gafford,smyrna,ga(2E)
		2. o.ogletree/p.eckloff,watkinsville,ga (3C)
		3. evan kraus (2F)

	4	1. brian buckowski,smyrna,ga (4D)
		2. tom comkowycz,rex,ga (4A)
		3. john allen, alpharetta,ga (4A)

	5	1. john allen (5B)
		2. david pappas, ocoee,fl (5B)
		3. jim suggs,locust grove,ga (5B)

	6/24	1. david pappas (6A)
		2. gary michel (24A)
		3. john allen (6A)

	7/8	1. chuck jones,roswell,ga (7C)
		2. tyler freeman,whitwell,tn (7C)
		3. gary michel again (7A)

	9	1. evan kraus (9A)
		2. david pappas (9A)
		3. brian buckowski (9B)

	10	1. steve vallancourt,ocoee,fl (10B)
		2. chris bishop,harrisburg,nc (10A)
		3. paul patino,winder,ga (10A)

	11	1. david feldman,atlanta (11D)
		2. ann swenson,athens,ga (11E)
		3. tad seyler,athens,ga (11)

12/13/17/18	1. r.wampler/k.mccrae,hampton,ga (17A)
		2. d+p.waltman,atlanta (13A)
		3. mike moulton,mableton,ga (12A)

	15	1. brian travis, lawrenceville,ga (15B)
		2. evan kraus (15C)
		3. chris terenzi (15C)

	16	1. brian travis (16D)
		2. r+j.mason,atlanta (16C)
		3. del price, doraville,ga (16E)

	19	1. paul patino (19D)
		2. brian buckowski (19B)
		3. jim suggs (19B)

	21/22	1. d+p.waltman (21A)
		2. tom moore, covington,ga (22A)
		3. gary michel (22A)

	23	1. brian buckowski (23B)
		2. nancy sampson,orlando,fl (23B)
		3. barry browne,atlanta (23A)

	25-27	1. lee,atlanta (27B)
		2. stuart thurmond,kennesaw,ga (27A)
		3. gary michel (26B)

	BOS	1. steve vallencourt,ocoee,fl (10B)
		2. lee,atlanta,(27B)
		3. john allen,alpharetta,ga (5B)

thank you to all the wonderful judges,especially to those who drove far
and those who judged on friday evening as well, thanx to the great
stewards,thanx to the other organizer, chris terenzi, thanx to steve and
the crew at john harvard's brewhouse , thanx to all the entrants,thank you
especially for those that stayed to clean up,rich and janine mason deserve
special mention there,thanx to jim griggers for helping me load my car
before it got towed by the evil valet dude across the street,thanx to
david pappas for a fun conversation about the results for the PSBO and the
central florida homebrewers.congratulations to all the winners. expect
ribbons and score sheets in about two weeks. lee



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Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 15:19:00 +1000
From: Charlie Scandrett <merino at squirrel.com.au>
Subject: Fermentation Temp Profiles

Dave Draper asks
 "If an ale has its primary  fermentation temp controlled by the fridge, say
at 68F/20C, until
  gravity is only a couple of points above terminal, and I then rack
  to a second fermentor that goes to a warmer place (indoors, max
  80F/27C), will I lose the advantages I gained by primary-fermenting
  at 68/20? Will there be enough yeast activity occurring in the second
  fermentor to throw esters and other high-temp fermentation byproducts
  that were the reason I got a fridge in the first place?"

The short answer is NO, you will improve your beer. (usually)

The long answer is a post on Esters that I am preparing. However the basics
of fermentation profiles is on record.

During the vigorous *growth* phase of  primary fermentation, yeast produce
as byproducts:  Alcohols, Esters,  Diacetyl (ketones), Aldehydes (different
ones to alcohol precursors and staling products), as well as Sulphurous and
Phenolic volatiles.
Two important fermentation  byproducts, diacetyl and acetaldehyde, are
metabolically broken down by yeast when the useful carbohydrates begin to
run out. This phase is what has been termed "secondary fermentation". Also,
during secondary, volatiles like esters, sulphur compounds and phenolics are
scrubbed out by CO2 evolution. Because this process is slower than primary
fermentation, many commercial breweries adopt a cold fermentation-warm
maturation profile in order to shorten ageing times and get a more vigorous
CO2 evolution for scrubbing. These unwanted compounds are the byproducts of
*growth* and will not be significantly produced during secondary.

For lagers in Germany, this is typically Pitch at 6C, raise to 9C over 2
days, drop trub & dead yeast, hold at 9C for 2 days, raise to 12C over 2
days, drop yeast, hold for 4 days warm maturation (until diacetyl < 0.1
mg/litre). Then crash cool to -1C for 10 days. For ales in the UK, this is
typically Pitch at 16C, let rise to 19C over 3 days, hold at 22C for a day,
and crash cool to 2C for a week.

 The other function of traditional secondary maturation is sedimentation of
colloidal matter. This is best done at reduced temperature and pH. For a
homebrewing  or commercial bottle conditioner, this can be finished off in
the bottle as they will have sediment anyway. For a filtering and
counterpressure-filling brewer, the warm secondary phase of a few days
needs to be followed by a week at close to 0C temperatures, perhaps two
weeks for lagers. With warm secondary fermentation, there is no need for an
extended cold lagering of months, any further reduction of green beer
flavours of diacetyl and acetaldehyde would need laboratory analysis to
notice as they would already be well below flavour thresholds..

Ther are also cold primary-cold secondary profiles used, (including with
krausen), as well as warm primary (sometimes under pressure)-cold secondary,
and cold primary-accelerated secondary( a two day rest at 24C for lagers!)
profiles. It is important to realise that all methods work if you can
monitor the compounds that you are trying to control, there is no correct
method, different brewers are using different process levers.

That said, a simple and reliable profile would be, pitching 2-5C below ideal
primary temperature, then  letting the metabolic heat of fermentation raise
the temp to the ideal target over a day or so, then holding till 90% of the
apparent attenuation limit, then raising 5-7C for 2 days, followed by a week
reduced to near 2C. This will work very well for most yeasts and produce
clean tasting beer.

Charlie (Brisbane, Australia)


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---