---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com


Contents:
  enough pointy headed drivel! (Andy Walsh)
  Home Depot Coolers (Mark_Snyder)
  1997 Capitol District Open (Ray Renner)
  Tips on force carbonation (Steve Scott)
  Adding Pasteurized Fruit to Secondary ("Robert D. Dittmar")
  RE: Steeping Grains and Low Carbonation (LaBorde, Ronald)
  geez, i touched a nerve (Jeff Sturman)
  GABF, AHA and $$$ (Jeff Sturman)
  Yeasts (Charles Hudak)
  Trials and Tribulations in the Commercial Brewing World (Kinney Baughman)
  steeping volume (Al Korzonas)
  filters for chloramines (kathy)
  Creativity - there is no disagreement (Samuel Mize)
  Boiling point vs altitude. (Ian Smith)
  I'M ALE'in ("WG05 Janssen Skylard L. A01")
  sour me brown (Dave Sapsis)
  The Jethro Gump Report ("Rob Moline")
  3rd Annual KROC World Brewers Forum (John Adams)
  1997 Great American Beer Festival (John Adams)
  Re: Mike's Pumpkin Ale Question (Jim Bentson)
  GABF Report ("Louis K. Bonham")


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Date: Wed, 08 Oct 1997 20:42:01 +1000
From: Andy Walsh <awalsh at crl.com.au>
Subject: enough pointy headed drivel!

After the Great Britain Beer Festival, in London, all the brewery
presidents decided to go out for a beer.

The guy from Corona sits down and says "Hey Senor, I would like the
world's best beer, a Corona."  The bartender dusts off a bottle from the
shelf and gives it to him.

The guy from Budweiser says "I'd like the best beer in the world, give
me 'The King Of Beers', a Budweiser."  The bartender gives him one.

The guy from Coors says "I'd like the only beer made with Rocky Mountain
spring water, give me a Coors."  He gets it.

The guy from Guiness sits down and says "Give me a Coke."  The bartender
is a little taken aback, but gives him what he ordered.

The other brewery presidents look over at him and ask "Why aren't you
drinking a Guiness?" and the Guiness president replies "Well, if you
guys aren't drinking beer, neither will I."




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Date: Wed, 8 Oct 1997 08:18:37 -0500
From: Mark_Snyder at wastemanagement.com
Subject: Home Depot Coolers




Mark Snyder
10/08/97 08:18 AM
Greetings, all!

Just a short note to the collective:

I continue to hear references to Home Depot's 7 gallon cooler.  However, I
have checked HDs as I travel, seen pallets of the things in stores and have
found nothing but the 5 gallon coolers in Tennessee, Georgia and Florida.
I even checked with a sales rep/clerk to see if the 7 gallon was even
available, and they could find nothing but the 5'er.  What gives?  Where
are you boys located that have the 7 gallon available?

I'd love to have a 7 gallon for the same price as a 5, but I'm about to
throw in the towel and buy the 5 gallon at MacFrugals for $14.99!  Thanks
for your help.



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Date: Wed, 08 Oct 1997 09:57:42 -0400
From: Ray Renner <Renner_R at mediasoft.net>
Subject: 1997 Capitol District Open

Announcing the 1997 Capitol District Open

A Washinton, DC Homebrew Competition
Saturday, November 15, 1997

Sponsored by:
Dulles Regional Brewing Society (DReBS)
Brewers Association of Northern Virginia (BANOVA)

Entries will be accepted from
October 27, 1997 to November 11, 1997

For entry forms, visit
http://www.mediasoft.net/renner/DReBS.htm

For more information contact:
Ray Renner
Phone: (703)834-5000x2032
Email:  Renner_R at mediasoft.net

We are also looking for judges for this event.
If you are interested contact:
Jay Adams
Phone: (301)435-0056
Email: AdamsJ at gwgate.nhlbi.nih.gov




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Date: Wed, 08 Oct 1997 10:01:38 -0400
From: sscott at lightlink.com (Steve Scott)
Subject: Tips on force carbonation

I recently got a kegging setup and didn't have very good luck at my
first attempt at force carbonation.  I'd sure appreciate what works well
for you.  I'm especially interested in ways that work time after time.
Please e-mail responses as well if you could.  Thanks in advance.


** The problem with the average family today is that it's=20
impossible to support it and the government on one income.

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Date: Wed, 08 Oct 1997 09:11:36 +0000
From: "Robert D. Dittmar" <Robert.D.Dittmar at STLS.frb.org>
Subject: Adding Pasteurized Fruit to Secondary

     HBD Collective:
     
     I have been tempted into making fruit beers recently by the near 
     giveaway prices on fresh fruit at the local farmer's market.  I 
     currently have a blueberry porter in the secondary, but have yet to 
     bottle it.
     
     I like the idea of adding fruit to a secondary fermenter so that the 
     yeast has a chance at it.  When making my porter, I tried pastuerizing 
     the fruit by bringing it to 150 degrees F and holding it at that 
     temperature for about half an hour.  My question to those who have 
     tried this method of using fruit is:  Do you let the fruit cool down 
     after pasteurizing it, or do you just rack the beer onto the hot 
     fruit?  I just racked onto the hot fruit for my porter, and as I said, 
     I have yet to know whether that was ill-advised or not.
     
     Before I try it again with 11 lbs of strawberries at 150 degrees F, I 
     hoped for some advice on the subject from those who have been 
     successful with pasteurization.
     
     Thanks for the advice.
     
     Rob Dittmar

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Date: Wed, 8 Oct 1997 09:46:10 -0500
From: rlabor at lsumc.edu (LaBorde, Ronald)
Subject: RE: Steeping Grains and Low Carbonation

 ...Nicholas Bonfilio asks about low carbonation when bottle priming...

Could be several things affecting the carbonation:
 
First, you mention 3/4 cup of corn sugar.  When I put sugar into a cup,
the packing of the granules can make a big difference.  So try filling
the cup, then rapping it sharply on the counter and notice how the
compaction affects the measurement.  Try to pack it more and see if it
helps. (Ever try to put coffee grounds back into a factory packed bag?)

Second, your bottle caps could be slowly leaking.  Try as a comparison
to bottle a few Grolsh type swing top bottles with the rubber washers
and see it you have better carbonation.

Third, you did not mention if you kept the bottles at room temperature
for the two weeks of carbonation - do.

Fourth, are you rinsing all the sanitizer out of the bottles?

Fifth, etc... surely must be more reasons I don't know.

Happy Brewing

Ron




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Date: Wed, 8 Oct 1997 09:59:19 -0700
From: brewshop at coffey.com (Jeff Sturman)
Subject: geez, i touched a nerve

Apparently my guesstimated home brewing figures rubbed some people the
wrong way, and as always some people completely misinterpreted my
intentions.  Even some small people attacked me personally.

I love the HBD (read every one since about march 1994).  I love all grain
brewing, and I strongly urge anyone interested to go all grain.  I love
chemistry and biology, especially as they relate to brewing.  I wasn't
knocking the HBD or anyone associated with it.  I owe a great deal to this
forum as it has helped me immensely in my own brewing as well as in the
operation of my home brew shop.

But I stand by my guesstimates (+/- 10%) (That oughta really irritate some
people :) )  As for the Zymurgy survey, that survey was answered by Zymurgy
readers.  I'll guarantee that at least 1/3 of my customers has never read a
single paragraph from Zymurgy magazine.  And I know for a fact that less
than 10% of my customers subscribe to Zymurgy (or any other brewing
magaizines for that matter.)  That survey is hooey when it comes to the
total home brewing community.

The one thing I do regret is stating:

>...but by no means should we ever credit ourselves for the advancement of
>the >hobby, for we don't very closely represent the hobbyists.

What I was trying to say is that the industry is *driven* by the hobbyists
(ie sales and profits).  HBD-types surely are responsible for most of the
advancements made in home brewing during the past 20 years, but HBD-types
are an extremely small percentage of the home brewing population.  Sorry I
came across otherwise.

One thing I might suggest, even though I dread the potential results,  is
to print out my guesstimates and take them down to your local home brew
shop and ask the owner/manager if they agree with them.  If not, which ones
and why.  I would be quite interested in getting some feedback, both for
and against my guesstimates.  All feedback welcome, even personal attacks
from the small people.

Here they are (revisions in brackets):

~ 98% + of my home brewing customers use extracts [usually with specialty
grains but not always, but no mashing involved]

~ 50% use dry yeast [some occasionally use liquid yeast for a weizen or a
steam beer, but mainly this 50% uses dry yeast]

~ 5% know what amylase is;  The other 95% don't want to know. [Actually,
maybe 10% know, 90% don't care]

~ 33% ferment in plastic, single stage

~ 25% brew with untreated tap water

~ 25% don't own a single home brewing book or magazine [this may be a
little high, but it is at least 10%]

~ 95% sanitize with bleach and tap water

~ 90% would quit brewing if they were required to understand any chemistry
or                     biology [beyond basic fermentation science,
temperatures, etc]

~ 98% are male

[< 10% of home brewers subscribe to any home brewing magazines]

Again, sorry for offending the collective.  I was just trying to put this
hobby into perspective.

Jeff
casper, wy




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Date: Wed, 8 Oct 1997 09:59:27 -0700
From: brewshop at coffey.com (Jeff Sturman)
Subject: GABF, AHA and $$$

First, the GABF went up to $30/session this year.  Then they won't replace
a broken glass at the festival, but instead charge for a new one, even
though some drunk person bumped into me and made me drop my glass.  Last
year, and years previous, they replaced broken glasses for free.  They
outlawed backpacks/sacks last year but fortunately provided bags for
festival goers.  This year they were too cheap to even provide bags.  Now
the latest issue of Zymurgy, the special issue, went up to $9.95 per copy.
Charlie must have built a big house...

jeff
casper, wy

****************************************************************
*            Basement Brewin' Home Brew Supply Shop            *
*       2637 East Second Street (Hilltop Shopping Center)      *
*                   Casper, Wyoming  82609                     *
*           Full Line of Beer Brewin' and Wine Makin'          *
*                 Equipment and Ingredients                    *
*                     Open 7 days a week                       *
*       Professional and Freindly Service and Assistance       *
*          http://www.coffey.com/~brewshop/BBHome.html         *
*                    brewshop at coffey.com                       *
*                    Jeff Sturman, owner                       *
****************************************************************



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Date: Wed, 08 Oct 1997 10:15:16 -0700
From: Charles Hudak <cwhudak at gemini.adnc.com>
Subject: Yeasts

Hey gang,

FYI, there's a new yeast wrangler in town!

Check out http://www.whitelab.com

This guy sells to alot of the brewpubs and micros here in San Diego. His
standard packages are pitchable quantities for 5G batches so you don't need
to make a starter. He also does pitchable amounts from 1BBL to 15BBL or
more for a lot cheaper than Wyeast.

His prices are *very* reasonable and he'll ship.

Charles

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Date: Wed, 8 Oct 1997 13:25:31 -0400 (EDT)
From: Kinney Baughman <krb at porter.appstate.edu>
Subject: Trials and Tribulations in the Commercial Brewing World

Greetings all:

Wow!  Has it been this long since I've contributed to the HBD!?  I used to
look forward to this forum everyday and now I hardly have time to read it.
Clearly, my priorities have gotten skewed.

Much of that, though, is due to the fact that I decided to make the jump
from homebrewer to commercial brewer and my spare time got zapped in the
process. 

For several months, I've been meaning to post the final installment of the
"Tumbleweed Report"  (which should now be called the "Cottonwood Report") 
to sum up my experiences in the wild and wacky project that was
Tumbleweed/Cottonwood.  Part of what I wanted to share had to do with the
muck and the mire that can be the commercial brewing world.  This will
have to suffice in the meantime. 

The recent misfortunes of my good friend and colleague, Rob Moline has
prompted to put my .02 in about the increasingly hostile climate of the
commercial brewing world insofar as the brewers are concerned.  For as
Bill said in his post today I, too, find myself out of a brewing job. 
(BTW. I've been consulting for a brewpub [Huske Hardware House Brewing
Company] in Fayetteville, NC and not Richmond, VA.) 

After 5 years of putting my heart and soul (and did I mention money?) into
"my" brewery, when it came time to finally cash in on all my and my
staff's hard work, the owner misrepresented himself to the wallet-guys who
wanted to build a full-scale brewpub in town, negotiated himself the "head
of brewing operations" while I was out of town at the AHA national
conference and effectively squeezed me out of what I (naively?) thought
should have been my job.

Oh, sure.  I was given an opportunity to become a part of the "team". 
Bart Conway, the owner of Cottonwood the restaurant, was given major
ownership in the establishment so he could "run" the brewery.  (Mind you,
a man who's never brewed a batch of beer in his life and wouldn't know a
mash tun from a ton of bricks.) I was offered 3% ownership if I could come
up with $25000.  "Oh!  You don't have the money?  That's OK.  We'll pay
you $100 a month, apply the rest of your fee towards purchasing your
fair and just 3% and we'll all be one big happy family!"

My reply to that insult was: "Boys, I just *look* stupid!"

Thus, a memorable chapter of my life came to a close.  I found myself
standing on the sidelines as a brand new 15 bbl. 1/4 million dollar
brewhouse was built under the name "Cottonwood", a name I and my staff
(Brian Lee and Craig Seaver) helped put on the map.  One of the many
ironies in this sad story is that I couldn't even get Mr. Conway to pay me
on time much less spend the least amount of money on the old Cottonwood
brewery.  All told, we only had about $2000 in the old brewhouse!! 

It was a hard and bitter pill to swallow, I'll tell you.  It's been hard
to talk much less write about.

So for all of you aspiring commercial brewers, please, please, please
learn from the guys like Rob Moline, Thom Thomlinson of Tom Cat Brewing
Company in Raleigh, NC (who also just recently got the axe) and myself,
you cannot take the attitude of a homebrewer into the commercial brewing
world.  As homebrewers, we're all anxious to help each other out, devote
our time to helping others make better beer and generally do all we can to
spread the word about our craft. 

But the wallet guys who run the commercial brewing world don't give a
rat's a$$ about anything except the bottom line.  They don't care about
the people who make them whatever success they have achieved.  They only
care about money.  Honor?  Loyalty?  Gratitude?  How does that figure on
the bottom line?

If you get the opportunity to brew commercially then be afraid, be very,
very afraid. Get a good lawyer.  Draw up an iron clad contract and don't
ever, ever do any f*&#*g owners any f*&#*g favors!  They'll laugh at you
behind your back for being an ignorant, stupid fool.  It still makes my
skin crawl when I think about the brewpot I got for Bart and didn't charge
him for it.  For the time I spent building the custom hop backs and
chillers and finding dirt cheap kegs ... and didn't charge him for it. 
He's been laughing at me for years ... all the way to the bank.

Congratulations go to Rob for his scholarship to Siebel.  There's no one
who deserves it more.  Rob and I first met in these electronic halls 7
years ago.  About 3 years ago he called me one day to ask permission to
use my .sig line, "Beer is my business and I'm late for work" on some
T-Shirts he was doing at Little Apple.  Now, in the past, I've had a most
difficult time keeping people from using my slogan as their own.  Rob
Moline is not only the only man on the face of the earth to ever give me
proper attribution but he's also the only man to pay me a "royalty" for
its use.  When we finally met face to face at the GABF 2 years ago, he
says: "Kinney Baughman, I'm Rob Moline and I've got something for you." 
At that point, he deftly reached into his pocket, pulled out an already
signed check and placed it securely in my hand! 

Ladies and Gentleman, that's a class act!

So last year, when I ran into him again, he pulls out the only Cuban cigar
I've ever seen and says, "Let's go smoke this puppy".  I said "I can't
right now.  We'll wait until you win that Gold!"

And damned if he didn't!!

Cheers and more luck to everyone than we've had.

 ___ ----------------------------------------------------------- ___
|   |                   Kinney Baughman                         |   |
|   |               krb at porter.appstate.edu                     |   |
 \ /                                                             \ /
  |        "Beer is my business and I'm late for work"            |
   ---------------------------------------------------------------



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Date: Wed, 8 Oct 1997 12:43:00 -0500 (CDT)
From: Al Korzonas <korz at xnet.com>
Subject: steeping volume

Charley writes:
>Nick, when you are merely extracting colors, flavors and existing sugars 
>from the grains, steeping is fine and I believe can be done in as much 
>volume of water as you wish. My brother is an extract brewer and he steeps 
>his specialty grains in 7 gallons as the water at 160F for 30 minutes.

Whoa!  It depends greatly on your water.  I have medium-"carbonate" water
(105ppm carbonate/bicarbonate) and I moved to full-boils before I moved
to all-grain.  So, during that period, I was steeping my crystal and
specialty malts in 6.5 gallons of water.  I was also getting comments
from judges that my paler beers were astringent.  "Pish posh" I thought
at first, but then checked the pH of 1 pound of medium crystal in 6.5
gallons of water: 7.8!!!  Yikes!  Since then if I ever steep grains, I
never use more than one gallon of water per pound.

You can get away with more if your water has less carbonate/bicarbonate
or if you are using dark malts which actually acidify your steep.  By
the way, I also had an irritating chill haze during that period.

Al.

Al Korzonas, Palos Hills, IL
korz at xnet.com

My new website (still under construction, but up-and-running):
     http://www.brewinfo.com/brewinfo/

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Date: Wed, 08 Oct 1997 08:15:46 -0500
From: kathy <kbooth at scnc.waverly.k12.mi.us>
Subject: filters for chloramines

Check with your supplier about carbon filtering out chloramines.  This
thread ran a couple of years ago with a manufacturer rep/tech person
saying it takes a special type of carbon filter to do the job.

I personally talked to the tech person at the manufacturer of carbon
filters for Sears, and he agreed that their carbon filters didn't remove
chloramines.      Cheers....jim booth, lansing, mi



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Date: Wed, 8 Oct 1997 15:02:37 -0500 (CDT)
From: Samuel Mize <smize at prime.imagin.net>
Subject: Creativity - there is no disagreement

Greetings to all, and especially to:

> HOMEBREW Digest #2525		             Wed 08 October 1997
> From: Jim Cave <cave at psc.org>
> Subject: Alan Moen's article
> 
> 	I know Alan Moen  and have enjoyed numerous discussions, debates, and
> judging sessions with him in the past.
 ... I also think he's a pretty good brewer and judge.

That's great!  I don't recall any posting suggesting otherwise -- if
one did, let me join you in deploring it.

> I read his article and I agree with his sentiment on this issue.

I think you agree in philosophy with Doug Moyer (with whom I agreed).
The disagreement is on what Mr. Moen intended to say.  I haven't read
the article, so I can't judge that.

Mr. Moyer's understanding of the article was that beers should not
exceed the existing style guidelines, NOT that beers should be
labeled properly.

Mr. Moyer asked:

> 	What do the rest of you think? Is it a cardinal sin to brew beers that
> don't fit into a particular style?

And your reply said:

> 	Would you be happy if someone sold you pot roast under the name of
> "tenderloin"?
 ...
> If you really want to get creative there is always the Specialty
> category.

So the points of agreement seem to be:

* If you label a beer to be of style XXX, it should BE of style XXX.

* If you're brewing outside of, or ignoring, style guidelines, you
  should NOT use standard designations, or you should make clear to
  your consumers the difference.

  For instance, Texas has weird labelling laws that require certain
  designations and disallow others.  So you might label something as
  "A Pale Ale, but with a smoky character" instead of just the legally
  required "Ale" or "Pale Ale."

* If you don't mislead people, go for it!  Brew that pumpkin and
  spruce stout!  You might win a contest with it -- but you
  definitely SHOULDN'T win if you call it "American Standard," no
  matter how good it is.

Best to all,
Sam Mize

- -- 
Samuel Mize -- smize at imagin.net -- Team Ada
(personal net account)

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Date: Wed, 8 Oct 1997 14:10:14 -0600 (MDT)
From: Ian Smith <rela!isrs at netcom.com>
Subject: Boiling point vs altitude.

Does anyone know at what temperature water boils in Boulder, CO. altitude 
5360 feet ? I would prefer a chart, table or equation if possible. I 
would like to calibrate my thermometers so the value should be as 
accurate as possible (within +/- 0.1 deg C ???).

Cheers
Ian Smith
isrs at rela.uucp.netcom.com



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Date: Wed, 8 Oct 1997 12:30:41 -0700
From: "WG05 Janssen Skylard L. A01" <SJanssen at vinson.navy.mil>
Subject: I'M ALE'in

	I'm new to H/B world with 10 batch to claim, all of which are ALE
extract and specialty gain  brews. I live in a apartment so all my
bottled beer is stored outside in my shed after conditioning indoors 3-4
weeks.  With winter coming on and the temps starting to drop below 45
and lower will this have any adverse effects on my Ale's.
				SINCERELY, I'm ALE'in

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Date: Wed, 8 Oct 1997 14:33:39 -0700
From: Dave Sapsis <DAVE_SAPSIS at fire.ca.gov>
Subject: sour me brown

Jim Cave, while defending the Alan Moen op/ed piece in the recent
Brewing Techniques, opines:

>but a brown ale that has soured and gone off is =
>a far cry from a Flanders brown or a Roddenbach and it is simply =
>dishonest to attempt to fool judges into thinking or judging otherwise.


Now, I too am in agreement with Jim, regarding the *intent* of Alan's
piece.  I do not beleieve that he in any way meant to stifle the general
creativity of brewers.  However, their is both a historical context, and
a consumer expectation that goes along with styles, and lately the NA
craft beer market has been besieged by bastards of style that to my mind
do not speak toward creativity.  They basically are attempting to
coattail on to traditions and expectations that have been earned through
a long process of  development and sale.  There are a lot of people out
there getting into the business that really have no sense of historical
indebtedness, not any commitment to the consumer that bases his/her
choices with that history and expectation in mind.

That said, I presume that Jim, in the example above, means that the sour
brown has "gone off" does not taste like a repectable Oid Bruin, rather
than the chance that , by accident, the brewer did actually end up with
a representative product.  Personally, some of my best efforts have been
serendipidy in a glass.  

There are few places out there in the aroma/flavor space that are not at
least remotely occupied by some style designator.  Push the envelope if
you choose, just do not defy the historical context by which styles
developed and became understood.  Just my musings, mind you.
Incidentally, if any of y'all ever make a really fine Oid Bruin, either
by luck or intent, let me knnow.  Gotta be the toughest style on the
planet.

Cheers,
- --dave in Sacto

David Sapsis
Fire and Fuels Specialist 
CDF Fire and Resource Assessment Program
916.227.1338       dave_sapsis at fire.ca.gov


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Date: Wed, 08 Oct 97 16:46:23 PDT
From: "Rob Moline" <brewer at ames.net>
Subject: The Jethro Gump Report

		The Jethro Gump Report
Making Cider...
	The recent issue of the legality of making cider for sale, and my
recollections of Bert Grant's situation prompted me to take advantage of
his presence at GABF, and ask about it. He stated that when the ATF
threatened to shut his brewery, if he did not desist from making cider, he
immediately ceased production
	But, he also said that he wished the ATF would get rid of the law, as
there apparently have been deaths attributed to these small roadside
farmer's cider. The problem is that some producers include the use of
apples that have fallen from the tree, and are scarred and in some cases
have rotten portions, and have laid on ground which may have been
fertilized with animal manure, and in this manner, introduce E-Coli to the
product.

Bonus Time...
	For the benefit of an HBD'r that was unable to attend the GABF, I have in
my possession the AHA/ Falling Rock Banner canvas banner, approx. 2' by 3',
that was donated toward this little project by Brian Rezac and Chris Black,
owner of Falling Rock. The idea was to give it to a HBD'r that couldn't
attend, but I think it more appropriate to offer it to a member of a club,
such that it might be displayed at club meetings. It says, "AHA and Falling
Rock Welcome Internet Homebrewers," (yes, really, I heard it myself!), with
the 20th Anniversary AHA logo on each of the 4 corners. It has 4 brass
grommets for hanging.
	So, let's set it up this way......the fifth person that e-mails me, and
asks for it, shall receive it! All I ask, being currently un-employed, is
that the recipient send me the funds for shipping. Once the winner has been
selected, I will go and find out how much, and let you know, and off it
will go. I sort of think it will be nice for it to go to a foreign club
member, but this issue will be decided by the luck of the draw, as it were.	
	OK? And I hope it does get to hang in a club meeting room, not just on the
wall of someones garage, but, of course, this is beyond my control.

While I am cleaning out the Closet.....
	I also have a German "Beer King" Mini-Keg CO2 tapping setup that's
gathering dust. The fella that gave it to me said it needed a new gasket or
spring or something, but apart from that it's all there, with instructions,
and in the original box.
	I know I will never use it, so same deal, you pay for postage, and it's
yours. First come first served.
Cheers!
Jethro

Rob Moline
Brewer At Large
brewer at ames.net

"The More I Know About Beer, The More I Realize I Need To Know More About
Beer!"

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Date: Wed, 8 Oct 1997 16:10:52 -0600 (MDT)
From: John Adams <jadams at pipeline.cnd.hp.com>
Subject: 3rd Annual KROC World Brewers Forum


                    3rd Annual KROC World Brewers Forum
                                      
   The 1997 event continues to build upon the success that the 3-year-old
   Keg Ran Out Club (KROC) started in 1995. This years KROC World Brewers
   Forum was the biggest and best of them all with well over 100
   professional and amateur brewers and beer lovers attending. This years
   speakers included Fal Allen of the Pike Brewing Company discussing
   Barley Wines and Sean Franklin of Roosters Brewery and Outlaw Brewing
   Company, Yorkshire England on English Ales.
   
   Fal gave an in-depth presentation describing how in older times barley
   wines were produced from the first runnings of the wort while the
   family beer was made from the second runnings. The barley wine style
   is not rooted geographically like many older styles (e.g., Munchen
   Helles or Kolsch), and therefore the style parameters are more widely
   defined.
   
   Fal also spoke of the history of brewing the style, the strong need
   for highly aerated wort, how to keep the yeast active during the
   entire fermentation process, and various theories concerning hopping.
   He also compared and contrasted many of the most popular barley wines
   on the market today.
   
   Sean gave a wonderful presentation on the English Ales in a very
   different and refreshing perspective. He described the four types of
   beer drinker, two types of beer quality, and the need to bury aromas
   and other flavors within the drink.
   
   Sean described the two types of quality--Commercial Quality and Pure
   Quality. Commercial Quality embodies what we traditionally judge:
   clarity, head retention, attractive aromas, balance, and lack of any
   faults. Pure quality is beyond this. [It includes] all the things that
   make a commercial quality but more intensity and complexity of
   aromatics. Not one aroma but several like a pile of coloured paper,
   removing one reveals another, and the final aromatic taste should not
   only be pleasant but complex, intense, and long lasting.
   
   Something important to a great beer is the need for a flavour hook.
   Putting too much of any given flavor, as fruit beers often do, will
   leave the informed drinker satisfied too quickly and looking for the
   next beer. The hook should be entertaining but at the same time
   something the beer drinker has to chase after repeatedly.
   
   Attending this year's KROC World Brewers Forum were the following
   noted local, national, and international brewers, authors, and Great
   American Beer Festival PPBT judges:
     * Mark Dorber (The White Horse on Parson's Green, London)
     * Bill Seibel (Seibel Institute of Technology, Chicago)
     * Fred Eckhardt (Fred Eckhardt Communications, Seattle)
     * Alastair Hook (Mash Brewing Co., London)
     * Grant Johnston (Third Street Ale Works, California)
     * Gary Edsall Jr. (Wild Goose Brewery, Maryland)
     * Ken Scheirberg (Oldenburg Brewing Co., Kentucky)
     * Brad Kraus (Wolf Canyon Brewing Co., New Mexico)
     * Ken Peil (Lonetree Brewing Co., Denver)
     * Brian Dunn (Great Divide Brewing Co., Denver)
     * Garret Oliver (Brooklyn Brewing Co., Brooklyn)
       
   Thanks to the members of The Keg Ran Out Club who furnished the seven
   kegs of beer and the food (including a great Barley Wine and a
   wonderful Belgian Wit). Also a special thanks to the American
   Homebrewers Assoc., the Birko Corporation, The Homebrew Hut, and many
   local breweries and homebrew suppliers for their contributions.


- --
John Adams
KROC WBF '97 Director


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Date: Wed, 8 Oct 1997 16:19:16 -0600 (MDT)
From: John Adams <jadams at pipeline.cnd.hp.com>
Subject: 1997 Great American Beer Festival


                  16th Annual Great American Beer Festival
                                      
   This year's Great American Beer Festival was the biggest and best to
   date. With over 1800 beers being judged and 1700 beers on the floor,
   beer is my job and I am late for work. Because this was my fourth year
   involved with the GABF as a Table Captain I had the opportunity to go
   for a behind-the-scene's experience.
   
   Monday evening was the GABF Professional Panel of Blind Tasting (PPBT)
   judges orientation and reception. It was nice to see many of the
   judges again. I chatted with Bob Brewer (Anchor Brewing) about plans,
   after a 4 year hiatus, to re-start the Old Foghorn party. I had the
   chance to become acquainted with Sean Franklin (Roosters Brewery,
   Yorkshire) who spoke at my homebrew club the following evening. I
   talked with old judging buddies Alex Vigil (Gluek Brewing), Jim
   Martella (Pumphouse Brewery), and Eric Warner (formerly of Tabernash).
   After a recent series of articles in the Homebrew Digest concerning
   Steinbeirs, I talked about my own attempts at the Steinbeir-style with
   the master, Chuck Skypeck (Boscos).
   
   Bright and early Tuesday morning was the start of the PPBT judging,
   and boy did that alarm go off early! In the morning sessions I was
   involved with all three flights of the single largest category,
   American-Style Pale Ales, with 109 entries. In the afternoon, we had
   the American- Style Browns (47 entries) and American-Style Specialty
   Lagers (22 entries).
   
   Tuesday evening was one of two best nights of the Fest, due to the 3rd
   Annual KROC World Brewers Forum. This event's organizer is my homebrew
   club, The Keg Ran Out Club, with myself again returning as the event
   director. After two speakers, seven kegs, and over $800 dollars in
   give-aways, all participants had a fantastic evening!
   
   Wednesday mornings alarm continued with the tradition of being too
   loud and too early! Wednesday sessions included: Pilseners, Munchener
   Helles, and American-Style Lagers. After talking with Sean Franklin
   and Mark Dorber (White Horse at Parsons Green) the night before about
   baseball, I took the two English gentlemen to Garts Sports Castle for
   baseball and fishing equipment.
   
   Wednesday evening was the big Brewers Banquet at the Adams Mark with
   roughly 2000 in attendance. The Brews Brothers (a wretched band of
   brewers) played cover tunes twisted into beer songs. Afterwards I
   talked briefly with Tom Doldorf (Celebrator) and Michael Jackson (the
   Beer Hunter). After the second band drove everyone away I headed out
   with Sean Franklin, Mark Dorber, and Jim Homer (AHA National Judge)
   for some delicious Mexican food and a couple more brews.
   
   Thursday morning was a bit easier to wake up to and included the very
   nice final sessions of Belgian-Style Ales and Belgian-Style Specialty
   Ales. I had the very pleasant opportunity to sample some very, very
   nice Lambics, Diamondback Brewings Gueuze Lambic and Fremont Brewings
   KAZ Lambic.
   
   Thursday evening was the AHA Members-only tasting session and awards
   ceremony. This was a very relaxed evening and the other fantastic
   evening of the beer fest. I chatted with Fal Allen (Pike Brewing),
   Carol Stoudt (Stoudt Brewing), and Dave Miller (Blackstones)
   concerning their GABF awards. Afterwards the private Anchor Old
   Foghorn party started with Geoff Larson (Alaskan Brewing) furnishing
   the delicious smoked salmon! I sampled a few very delicious meads
   furnished by Jason Goldman (Spassmacher Brewing) and Glenn Colon-Bonet
   (PPBT manager) and proceeded to cap a perfect day!
   
   Fridays two sessions included the Business of Beer and the first of
   three public sessions. After drinking my way into the Thursday night
   session I was quite sleep deprived, but my motto is if you go out and
   play with the boys, you must wake up with the men so off I went!
   
   I talked with an old beer friend, Fred Eckhardt (Fred Eckhardt
   Communications) and Ken Schierberg (Oldenburg Brewing) about his Beer
   Camp. I discussed the possibility of Gary Edsall and Wild Goose
   Brewery sponsoring next years KROC World Brewers Forum with some cask-
   conditioned ales. I also tried some dry-hopped Buds and Michelob
   Wheats (which tasted very good) at the Anheuser-Busch educational
   booth.
   
   At 10:00, after the public fest closed, many of the PPBT staff headed
   over to the Falling Rock Tavern to keep the ball rolling. I hounded
   the church key master, Brian Rezac (AHA Administrator) well into the
   evening (anyone got a bottle opener?). I talked with a few local
   homebrewer friends gone pro and met a few of the Homebrew Digest
   poster children including the infamous Rob Moline (opinionated is an
   understatement).
   
   Because Saturdays sessions started later than the previous days, I was
   finally able to catch up on a little sleep; but at 2:00pm I was back
   at the trying a few new beers and trying to get the last sample of my
   newest favorites. Many of the brewers have now left but a few hard-
   cores still remain such as an old beer friend Bruce Joseph (Anchor
   Brewing). Tom Majorosi (Atwater Brewery) gave us a few tips on what
   good German-styles to try. By the end of the evening, having replaced
   my bodily fluids with beer, I knew it was time to call it a week.
   
   All and all this was by far the best Great American Beer Festival to
   date and I am already looking forward to next years event and this
   springs World Beer Cup in Atlanta.


- --
John Adams
GABF PPBT Table Captain


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Date: Wed, 08 Oct 1997 21:34:52 -0400
From: Jim Bentson <jbentson at htp.net>
Subject: Re: Mike's Pumpkin Ale Question

On: Wed, 01 Oct 1997  Mike Uchima wrote:>Subject: Re: pumpkin

> (snip)   I used 1 large (33 oz) can of pumpkin in a *3* gallon batch of ale
>about a year ago (so assuming you did a 5 gallon batch, the ratio of
>pumpkin to beer in my case was more than 3x what you had).  Very little
>of the pumpkin flavor remained in the beer by the end of fermentation. 
>IMO, it was still a pretty nice spiced ale, but unless you knew ahead of
>time that the pumpkin was there, it was pretty easy to miss.

I regularly make pumpkin ale around this time of the year  when fresh baking
(tan not orange) pumpkins are available. I use about 4 lbs of baked fresh
pumpkin in a 5 gal batch. I get a truly good tasting beer with incredible
color.  Although I switched to all-grain 1 1/2 years ago, I still brew my
pumpkin beer using Northwestern Gold extract. The brewpub that I worked in
last year used to make a large amount of pumpkin ale, and it always was a
nightmare to sparge. We almost always had to underlet the mash  to finish.
I found that 6.6 lbs of Northwestern Gold extract + 4 lbs of baked pumppkin
leads to a beer with a noticable pumpkin taste and avoids all the heartache
of a pumpkin sparge. I have been told that canned "pumpkin" is often
butternut squash rather than pumpkin. This may be the cause of the lack of
pumpkin taste. If anyone wants the recipe e-mail me. If enough requests come
I will post it.



>Oh yeah, and a question for anyone else who's done pumpkin beer: Did
>your fermentation really reek?  I got some really awful smells during
>fermentation of my pumpkin ale... sort of like a mixture of rotten eggs
>and dirty diapers.   And this was with a yeast (1056) that normally
>doesn't seem to produce a lot of bad smells while it's working. 

  I also use Wyeast 1056 and have never noticed the off-aroma you mention.


On another note, I just came back today from a trip to Burlington Vermont
and was lucky enough to catch Greg Noonan when he was at his Vermont brewpub
there. Greg is a true gentlemen. Although we had never met, he let me tour
his brewery at an off-time after he heard I had been working in a  brewpub
on Long Island. We got to spend a good 45 minutes sitting and talking beer.
I had a real pleasant Wit and  an Octoberfest to go with the excellent food
while there. If you are ever in the area, stop in. Greg's infectious love of
beer and brewing is so apparent when you meet him. 

 Jim Bentson
Centerport NY
- --
Registered ICC User
check out http://www.usefulware.com/~jfoltz



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Date: Wed, 08 Oct 1997 19:41:33 -0600
From: "Louis K. Bonham" <lkbonham at phoenix.net>
Subject: GABF Report

The Homebrew Lawyer's GABF Report

Well, it's the Wednesday night after the GABF, and I've retreated 
to a friend's cabin near Breckenridge for a few days of R&R.  
While sitting on the deck after a fine meal, watching the sun go 
down over Peak 10 and enjoying a Blue Moon Nut Brown Ale and a 
pipeful of Penzance English Flake, I feel that's there's still 
something missing . . . some need unmet.  So I do what anyone in 
this position would do: ask my wife if she was able to borrow a 
laptop so I could check my e-mail!  Thanks to my ever-resourceful
spouse, even in a remote mountain cabin I'm still in touch.

Oh yeah, the GABF.  Contrary to popular rumor, the AHA did not 
have a hit man waiting for me in Denver.  Indeed, Jim Parker and 
Brian Rezac were paragons of hospitality, as the HBD'rs who came 
to the receptions at Falling Rock can attest.  (BTW, Falling Rock 
is a great multitap beer bar near Coors Field; Chris Black 
(formerly of the Gingerman in Houston) runs a first-class 
operation.  Worth a visit.)  Thanks guys; c'mon down to Houston 
and I'll  return the favor.

OK, the beer.  So many beers, so little time.  Can't say I tried 
even a major fraction of the 1400+ available, but among the 
highlights I found and suggest people trying are:

Brooklyner-Weisse, The Brooklyn Brewery (Gold, German-Style Wheat).
A hefeweizen that's a real tour-de-force.  According to George Fix,
who was on the judging panel, it simply blew away everything else 
in its class.  While I didn't sample all 83 beers in that category, 
it was a clear standout among the 25 or so weissen, hefeweizen, and
dunkelweizen I did sample.

Alaskan Smoked Porter, Alaska Brewing Company (Silver, Smoke-
Flavored). I'd heard about this one for years, but this was my 
first chance to try it.  Rich unmistakeable alder flavor that 
complements, rather than overwhelms, everything else in the beer.
Definitely not to be missed if you get the chance to try it.

Summerfest, Saint Arnold Brewing Company.  OK, so it didn't win 
a medal, and the brewmaster is a friend of mine.  Still an 
absolutely awesome Bavarian-style lager, even in comparison with 
many of the medal winners.  And die-hard decoction snobs can't 
believe it's made with a single infusion mash.  

Belgian Red, New Glarus Brewing Company (Gold, Fruit Beer).  
I usually take a pass on fruit beers (except lambics), but on 
Rob Moline's suggestion I tried this one.  Wow.  Cherry from 
every direction, but with a balancing body and mouthfeel not 
typically found in fruit beers.  Highly recommended. 

Twisted Amber Ale, Twisted Pine Brewing Co.  Won gold at last 
year's GABF in American Amber Ale; didn't place this year in 
this hypercompetitive category (102 entries!).  Still a great 
beer that I liked better than many of the winners.

Classic European Zebra Lager, European Zebra Beers.  Their 
description claims a "low diacetyl level."  In fact, it's got 
more diacetyl than a lot of the heavily "doped" beers I've had 
at beer seminars.  What's strange is that, for some reason, it 
works with this particular beer.  I kept finding myself getting 
a sample of it every time I went past their booth trying in vain 
to figure out how this lager with a high diacetyl level can taste 
so good. Quite interesting; worth trying.

Bigfoot Barley Wine, Sierra Nevada Brewing Co. (Silver, Barley 
Wine).  While the gold medal winner (Bearded Pat's Barley Wine,
Bluegrass Brewing Co.) was very good, this old standby still blows 
away all but a tiny number of competitors, and was my personal 
choice for Best of Show.  I just wish I'd had the chance to try 
Rob Moline's winner from last year -- people are still talking 
about it. 

But the real highlight of the GAFB for me was not a beer, but the 
chance to visit for a few hours with the HBD's own Jethro Gump, 
Rob Moline.  Folks, lemme tell you something -- this guy's a real 
class act.  When he gets back in the biz (and I predict it will be
sooner rather than later), make a point of stopping by wherever 
he's brewing: everything good that's been said about him is true.

There's much more to report (highlights of the MCAB organizational
meeting, results of my efforts to obtain access to the AOB's 1996 
Form 990 (unsuccessful), my thoughts following lengthy and candid
discussions with Cathy Ewing of the AOB), but methinks I've used 
enough bandwidth for one day. 

Louis K. Bonham
lkbonham at phoenix.net

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