---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com


Contents:
  Thanks again! (Matthew Arnold)
  Bells Amber Ale Zealot ("Michael Kowalczyk")
  Re: Steinbier - the USGS speaks! (Matt Gadow)
  homebrew books (michael rose)
  Orange Peel Essence (nathan_l_kanous_ii)
  Dropping Homebrew (Lorne P. Franklin)
  Lagering Procedure (Jeff Renner)
  Survey (Spencer W Thomas)
  Re: gout & syrup (Craig Amundsen)
  Holy Hop Mistake, Batman! (Rich Hampo)
  Fast Fermentation ("Aaron Spurlock")
  Pasteurising a keg of beer (INFECTION!) ("Alan McKay")
  Gout ( STEVE   GARRETT)
  Boring color calculations (Samuel Mize)
  Stainless quick-disconnect connectors (Gary Bud Melton)
  'fridge foam/beer in Ann Arbor, MI (LBarrowman)
  RE: Got a burnin' question! (Andrew Quinzani)
  Where are the brewers? ("gordo")
  New Glarus Belgian Red (Steve Armbrust)
  Rests and modified malts (JFarrar101)
  Help w/Johnson controls!!! ("Michael T. Bell")
  Homebrew and apple pie? (Bill Macher)
  Starting a homebrew club (Doug Moyer)
  Scientific Pumpkin Brewing (TheTHP)
  Guiness (OCaball299)
  New Glarus Belgian Red (David Johnson)
  Do big beers always win? (Katy or Delano DuGarm)


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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Thu, 09 Oct 1997 03:01:20 GMT
From: mra at skyfry.com (Matthew Arnold)
Subject: Thanks again!

Thanks to everyone who gave me their preferences for phalse bottoms /
easymashers with a seven gallon Gott. Personally, I'm going to go with a phalse
bottom, and some of the accessories for same from HopTech (no affiliation,
blah, blah, blah). While that may be the more expensive way to go, I am not in
the LEAST mechanically inclined so this will make things as easy as possible
(also makes it easy for Santa to get the stuff for me ;) )

Until I can scrape enough money together for a ten gallon SS pot, I'm going to
be trying no-sparge brewing for the time being. At which point, I will probably
try batch sparging and see how I like it. Basically, I'm so keyed about the
possibility of doing all-grain brewing I can hardly contain myself!

Thanks again, oh mighty collective!
  Matt

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Date: Wed, 8 Oct 1997 22:05:55 -0700
From: "Michael Kowalczyk" <mikekowal at megsinet.net>
Subject: Bells Amber Ale Zealot

Ok, I've searched the HBD archives and surfed the net for an hour on this
one, so I'm certain it's "Postworthy" (aka Spongeworthy from Seinfeld...).

Bells Amber Ale from Kalamazoo Michigan.  

I'm thinking' its the ultimate American/homebrewlike/micro ale.  I drink
SNPA, Sprecher, Goose Island, etc.. But nothing like a fresh Bells from
neighboring Michigan ( I swear whenever I'm in MI I'm not a F.I.P...)

Anyone know what yeast they use?  I thought it was Wyeast 1056, or Wyeast
1272 until I drank a bunch tonight and then had a homebrew that I made with
Wyeast 1335 British Ale II and it tastes the same.  I'm sure I could steal
the yeast from one of their bottles, but I prefer fresh cultures to the stuff
that's in the secondary...  Besides it's fun to know for sure (Who hasn't
made a SNPA clone from fresh Wyeast and has enjoyed the hell out of it? 
Giggling about how close it tastes to the real thing...)

Anyone know if they use Lager malt?  I'm sure they use domestic malts.  Larry
Bell has made too much money to be buying the 'xpensive imported stuff.  What
maltsters  I'm sure its something nearby. Anyone in Kzoo notice what trucks
stop by the brewery?

Hops don't really taste like Cascade, so I would believe domestic Goldings. 
Anyone know what hops?

Anyway, I make what I think is a close second to the Bronze Michigan
nectar...

British Lager malt, Some wheat, some crystal, dash of Special B.  Wyeast 1335
Yeast.  Willamette and EKG hops.

ANYONEKNOWFERSURE?

 - Mike from Chicago.  (A short 2.5 hours from Kalamazoo...)


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Date: Wed, 08 Oct 1997 20:07:07 -0700
From: Matt Gadow <mgadow at ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Steinbier - the USGS speaks!

I read with interest the recent thread on Steinbier, and ran the posts
by my uncle (a USGS geologist)Here are his responses a very comical guy,
and semi-regular homebrewer, but not an HBD'r.
- -----------------------------------------------
Hey Matt -
(My original message to Jamie the geologist)
>The Homebrew digest has a running thread on Steinbier - The process of
>dropping superheated rocks into your beer to carmelize the wort.  Check
>out the threads marked Steinbier / Rocks in his head / George is
>Stoned... in the following forwarded messages, and let me know what you
>think...

I guess there's pretty much nothing people won't think of to try.  Why
not? - go for it!  And you can call it "Rock Bottom Ale"?

This article seemed to make the most sense:

>Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 21:32:53 -0500
>From: "John Heubel" <jlheubel at wf.net>
>Subject: George is stoned

<snip>

>The Winter 92  Zymurgy cover story was about Steinbier and I too have been
>stoned for some time trying to get my hands on the correct rocks. Here's
>some of the info I've found out:
>
>The article (or a follow up) mentions that Graywacke is the rock du jour at
>Rauchenfels. It is also known as "dirty sandstone" according to Britannica.

I don't think you have any graywacke down there, (Southern CA) but
sounds like what you want is just a good hard, dense rock.  
Sandstone like from Lake Powell or probably around where you live 
is not the right stuff - much too friable
and crumbly compared to graywacke, which can be almost like basalt.

> One of the specimens( Ordovician lithic wacke) pictured comes from Austin
>Glen, NY if that's nearby George.  Anywho, the graywacke expands during
>heating causing an even greater surface area for the wort to caramelize on
>and into.

THAT sounds like BS!  I doubt that graywacke is going to expand any more
or
less than any other kind of rock, in any case, it's pretty negligible
anyway.  If you want more surface area, add another rock!

>The most recent BT also has a short blurb on it and the Brimstone Brewery
>(Baltimore MD) uses diabase which is a volcanic stone sometimes associated
>with granite (which can also be used).  The Zymurgy authors used quartzite.
>and had good results.  Bottom line: find some rocks that can take some
>serious heat without fracturing when dipped into relatively cool (near
>boiling) wort.

Right.  As one of the other posts mentioned, avoid things like shale or
slate, or pretty much anything foliated (having a planar fabric). 
They'll
actually start to spall when you HEAT them!

I think a great place to look would be a good-sized stream or river that
carries rocks of the right size - like about fist-size, and look for a
nice, well-rounded piece of granite, basalt, quartzite, or whatever. 
The river will do the work of breaking up the rocks that might otherwise
shatter on you because of small fractures or whatever, and it's the 
sharp corners that might start to break off when super hot, so if you 
use a well-rounded stone to start with you'll probably be in good shape. 
Don't know if you can find anything suitable around Costa Mesa, but 
there'd be plenty of good rocks coming out of the San Bernardino Mts.,
or to the south on the coast.  Try Trestles! 
/matt comments on
(My favorite surfing spot, a cobbelstone beach!  Now I'm motivated, I
have to go surfing, and carry rocks back in my pack for my next brew!)
/matt comments off
>
>Some info on Rauchenfels Steinbiere:
>       O.G. 1.045       0.64# of stones per gallon of wort

Seems about right - like 3 or 4 fist-size stones per 5 gallons?  I think
you want to maximize surface area by using several smaller stones rather
than one large one.

[snip]

>They heated the rocks in a cinder-block fire chamber, fire being of oak
>wood (I plan on using Apricot wood from some tree branches I need to get
>rid of) and they had a fan blowing on it to keep it stoked.

I think you definitely want to do it this way, not just heat them with
propane like one guy did.  Here's a temperature guide (in Celsius):

about 500 - dullest red glow you can see in the dark.
about 550-575 - dull red glow visible in the light.

Doubt you can get it much hotter than that.  Whatever you do, don't drop
it
on the linoleum!

>They did give
>them an acid batch after a good scrubbing, but didn't mention strength or
>acid type.

5-10% HCl? or maybe just vinegar, but I wouldn't bother, I can't imagine
that it would make any difference.

Save some for me!

 - Jamie



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Date: Wed, 08 Oct 1997 21:25:15 -0700
From: michael rose <mrose at ucr.campus.mci.net>
Subject: homebrew books

I posted a question a few days ago asking about the discussion of
homebrew books authored by members of the HBD. I got a large resonse so
I thought I would summarize the results.

        1) All of the replys felt that discussion of the books is proper
in this forum.

        2) Most of the people replying are waiting for either Alk's book
or Dr. Fix's new book to be published. Al's book is out, I know this
after having contact with him. I was told via a 3rd party that Dr. Fix's
new book is also avialable. I just recieved a another email saying that
the Fix book will be out Nov 1.(?) Thought the forum might want to know.
                                         mike rose

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Date: Thu, 9 Oct 1997 09:20:30 -0400
From: nathan_l_kanous_ii at ferris.edu
Subject: Orange Peel Essence


Mike Morton asked about a way to improve the orange nose and flavor in his
holiday ale.  I haven't tried it, but I'll toss it out anyhow.  What about
using some Cardamom?  Anybody with experience using this spice in beers?
Nathan in Frankenmuth MI



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Date: Thu, 9 Oct 1997 10:07:22 -0400
From: lachina at mindspring.com (Lorne P. Franklin)
Subject: Dropping Homebrew

George De Piro wonders:

     I have a question about "dropping" beer into the secondary to increase
     diacetyl (this also rouses highly flocculent yeast . . . Could it be that
     breweries that aerate the ferment to rouse the yeast are also severely
     shortening the shelf life of their products?

     Anybody out there have any ideas about how this effects the shelf-life
     of homebrew?   Must beer fermented in this way be drunk relatively
     young (lending itself to cask conditioning and serving, perhaps?).

Around last St. Patty's Day I bottled my Imperial Stout, Dreadlocks and
Shamrocks.  The OG was 1.112 and the FG was around 1.022.  I think that I
used ESB Wyeast 1968 (notes are home).  But I know that I dropped the beer
to the secondary after the initial 2 days of vigorous fermentation.  At
that point the gravity had dropped to the mid 40s.  The aeration definately
kicked the yeast into another fermentation cycle, and I continued to rouse
the yeast for a couple of weeks as the fermentation subsided.

I've been slowly nipping at this batch for a few months (but the bulk of if
will be quaffed next March 17!), and have only noticed improvement in the
flavor.  There are no cardboardy elements to the beer's taste that could
have been caused by oxidation.  Granted, this is the biggest of big beers
that I've ever made, so the flavor could be hiding some slight flaws.  But,
bottom line, it's storing well and improving.


Lorne


"The only people for me are the mad ones, the ones who are mad to live, mad
to talk, mad to be saved, desirous of everything at the same time. . . ."

- --Jack Kerouac



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Date: Thu, 9 Oct 1997 10:14:31 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu>
Subject: Lagering Procedure

In Homebrew Digest #2526 (October 09, 1997), "Jeff Johnson"
<jdj at mindspring.com> asked some questions about his first lager, an
Oktoberfest.  In the interest of saving space, I've not quoted his
original,  You remember what he said, doncha?

Oats are a little weird in a German style, but you knew that when you
decided to use them, didn't you?

Sounds good.  A mashout at 170F is a good idea, too, if you can do it
without too much trouble.  It's Hallertauer, BTW.  I hope you kept the
bittering and hop character low.  This is a style that should shout
"MALT!"and whisper "(and a little hops to balance)".

There is the argument that it is best to grow your yeast at as close to the
actual fermentation conditions as possible, so doing the starter at 50F is
probably better than warmer temps, but most people, including yeast
producers, do it at warmer temps for speed of reproduction.  The reasons
for fermenting lagers at cold temps is flavor (and inhibition of spoilage
critters), but you won't be drinking the starter, so that shouldn't matter.

You were right not to pitch at the higher temps as many often do for a
quicker start.  It's a temptation.  The off flavor (esters, etc) production
comes during the reproductive stage, so the practice of warm start is poor
practice.  Good for you.  With a really big pitch (yours is big, but an
ounce of thick paste per gallon is best for lagers), I usually get low
kraeusen at 24-30 hrs, and high kraeusen 12 hours later.  With your
technically underpitch, you should still see things going by 72 hours,
especially since your 54F start is a little on the warm side.  German
technique, with a bigger pitch, is to start in the low 40sF and let the
heat of fermentation take it to the upper 40sF.. With 5 gallons, of course,
you'll lose heat so fast that there won't be much of a temp. rise.  I
generally ferment at 48-50F.  Iodophor in the airlock is overkill, and can
ruin beer in the unlikely case of suckback so vigorous that it pulls some
of the solution into the beer.  Water works fine, and vodka is good if you
want to make sure nothing grows in it.

A more typical pattern is to start lowering the temp when fermentation
slows down pretty much, but there is still some kraeusen and gas
production, so that the contraction of volume of beer and gas in headspace
is exceeded by gas production, so you don't pull any air in.  This is
usually at about 10 days for me.  You should be within a couple of points
of FG at this point.  A degree F drop per day is too slow, IMO.  I go for
3F/day, and take it right down to 33 in 5 or 6 days.  One exception is if
the yeast you use throws diacetyl, in which case, you may need a diacetyl
rest of a day at 60F+.  I never have needed this.  I'd skip the two weeks
at 44F.  It it isn't done at 50F, give it some more time at that temp.  44
is neither ideal ferm. or lagering temp.  As soon as fermentation is over,
you might as well start lagering, which will drop out protein and reduce
those sulfurous and other green beer aromas and flavors.

Sounds like you've made a good start.  Let me know how it turns out.  Hope
everyone appreciates it at Thanksgiving.

Jeff

 -=-=-=-=-
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan c/o nerenner at umich.edu
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943. 



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Date: Thu, 09 Oct 1997 10:46:06 -0400
From: Spencer W Thomas <spencer at engin.umich.edu>
Subject: Survey

Preliminary results in the HBD survey are in.  The number of responses
has tailed off in the last few days, so maybe it's time to report some
results.  I give no "confidence limits", no "plus-or-minus" on this.
See below for disclaimer.  As you may recall, in a message in HBD
2520, Jeff Sturman claimed that "95% of the digest's content is
totally useless to 95% of home brewers." The question then is whether
the digest's readership is typical of the home brewers that Jeff
knows.  I think the numbers here indicate that this is most likely not
the case.

The survey is still open at http://hubris.engin.umich.edu:8080/hbdsurvey.html.
 
                              HBD Survey results
 
Question					 #  No  Yes Jeff's
							    Yeses
I brew mostly with extract			520 67% 33%  98%
I brew mostly with dry yeast			520 88% 12%  50%
I don't know what amylase is, and 
	I don't care about it			516 86% 14%  95%
I mostly use a single-stage fermentation 
	in plastic				520 92%  8%  33%
I use untreated tap water to brew with		521 61% 39%  25%
I have NO homebrewing books or magazines	520 98%  2%  25%
I sanitize with bleach and tap water		519 51% 49%  95%
I would quit brewing if I had to understand 
	anything about the chemistry or 
	biology of brewing			520 96%  4%  90%
I am a male					521  4% 96%  98%


Disclaimer: yes I know that some of the questions are poorly
designed. I tried to echo the wording in the original posting as
closely as possible. I am also quite aware that the sample reflected
in the results is self-selected, and is limited to those who (1) care
to answer, and (2) have WWW access.

=Spencer Thomas in Ann Arbor, MI        (spencer at umich.edu)

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Date: Thu, 9 Oct 1997 10:01:43 -0500 (CDT)
From: Craig Amundsen <amundsen at biosci.cbs.umn.edu>
Subject: Re: gout & syrup

Hi -

Finally a couple of posts I can comment on B^)

> Andy Walsh <awalsh at crl.com.au> wrote about gout: 
> 
> What's this got to do with homebrew?
> Beer is the only alcoholic beverage with a measurable purine content
> (despite what many diet books may tell you!). The primary purines in beer
> are the nucleosides guanosine and adenosine, and derive from the breakdown
> of malt proteins. Beer may contain up to 150mg/l of these two

Just a nit: guanosine and adenosine are _not_ products of protein degradation.
They are 2 of the constituents of RNA and DNA. But malt has a lot of DNA and
RNA because during the malting process the plant embryo is encouraged to grow.
This process involves a lot of cell divisions and associated DNA replications.
So a barley seed has much less RNA and DNA than a kernel of malted barley 
because the seed hasn't undergone the huge number of cell divisions that took
place during the malting process.


i.brew2 at juno.com wrote about Maple Porter:
> 
> I have a neighbor who is a Maple Syrup producer.  I wanted to make him
> some Maple Porter with his syrup.  I have an extract based kit.  Would
> someone make a suggestion as to how much syrup to add for a 5 gallon
> batch?  I don't want this to be exceptionaly high in alcohol.  Also, does
> maple syrup produce the kind of off flavors that refined sugars do?  I
> have had suggestions to add from one pint to one gallon to just using it
> to prime at botteling, but no one seems to have really done it, just
> guessing.

This is not a guess: I made a Maple Brown Ale (called Waffale) where I used 
1 (one) quart of maple syrup in a lightly hopped standard brown ale batch. 
When the beer had warmed up a bit after being poured into the glass, I could
convince myself that the maple taste was perceptible. I would recommend, based
on this datum, that you use at least a half gallon of syrup. I detected no
off flavors from the sugar (fructose most likely) contributed by the syrup.

 - Craig in St. Paul
- -- 
+-----------------------------+------------------------------------------------+
| Craig Amundsen              | DILBERT - Sometimes I wonder if it's ethical   |
| amundsen at biosci.cbs.umn.edu |           to do these genetic experiments. But |
|                             |           I rationalize it because it will     |
| 250 Biological Sciences     |           improve the quality of life.         |
| 1445 Gortner Avenue         | DOGBERT - What are you making?                 |
| Saint Paul, MN 55108        | DILBERT - Skunkopotamus.                    O- |
+-----------------------------+------------------------------------------------+

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Date: Thu, 9 Oct 1997 11:16:29 -0400
From: rhampo at ford.com (Rich Hampo)
Subject: Holy Hop Mistake, Batman!

Howdy all,

I had a heck of a brew night last night. On top of 
several minor errors, I really screwed up my hopping.

I forgot to add them. OOPS!

Anyway, I remembered (that I forgot to add) the hops
just as I was turning on the water to my chiller.
So back on the stove it goes, I add 1/2 gal of water,
and add the hops. I then boiled for about another 30
minutes. To make up for the lower utilization, I used
about 30% extra hops. Anyone know of problems I may have
because my only hop addition was late? How about
a 130 minute boil instead of a 90 minute boil?
This was a SNPA clone. The bitter wort tasted fine
by the time I was done, but at 1:30 AM, I think my 
tastebuds might have already gone to bed. I know
my brain was absent the whole night.....

Thanks!

Richard Hampo
H&H Brewing Ltd.

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Date: Thu, 9 Oct 1997 08:17:59 -0800
From: "Aaron Spurlock" <spurlock at nemesis.azlink.com>
Subject: Fast Fermentation

I've brewed a couple of batches so far, and they seem to be getting better 
with time.  My last couple of batches, though, seem to have fermented awful 
fast.  I used 7lbs extract and one packet of Edme dry yeast (started 
according to How to Brew your First Batch).

Vigorour activity occured after 12 hours, and throughout the first day.  On 
the second day, it had slowed down to about 3-5 bubbles per minute and the 
krausen fell.  By the third day, it was less than 1 bubble per minute!  I 
plan on waiting until a week has passed, but is this okay?  I know...don't 
worry!

QUESTION 2:  All of my batches thus far have had a peculiar "tangy" taste.  
It is the type of taste that makes your saliva glands "swell" after it hits 
them.  Not really bitter, or puckery, but just "mediciney" I guess.  Is 
there something I may be doing that causes this taste?  All of my brews are 
malt extract, which some people say causes this taste.  Would shifting to 
DME help?  The other thing people have pointed out is the dry yeast.  Would 
shifting to liquid yeast help?

Thanks to everyone for your time and help!

Aaron Spurlock                                 aaronspurlock at iname.com

         All opinions expressed are expressly my opinions...

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Date: Thu, 9 Oct 1997 11:51:53 -0400
From: "Alan McKay" <Alan.McKay.amckay at nt.com>
Subject: Pasteurising a keg of beer (INFECTION!)


Well, let me start this post off with a little bit of a lesson
to people who become lazy, complacent, or whatever with their
brewing.  

Over the summer I did just this.  It was a standing joke between
me and my brewing friends.  I'd be doing something with my beer
(brewing, kegging, bottling, whatever), and I'd say "Well, I used
to do XXX, but I've been lazy lately".  As the summer progressed
I became lazier and lazier.  My 15 minute soak in bleach went
down to 10 minutes, then 5, then 2.  All sorts of things I normally
never thought I'd do, I was now doing.

Then I decided enough was enough.  I knew that I'd end up with
an infection, so I changed my ways and started doing things the
right way again.  A week later I noticed an infection in my 
cherry ale.  No big deal -- it is normal when you don't pasteurize
the fruit, as I didn't.  Now I've got an infection in my beer
brewed with corn meal.

In any case, I don't anticipate any more infections because I'm
not lazy anymore.  But I do want to rescue the beer that was 
infected from the times when I was lazy.  What I was thinking of
first was racking it into my pot, bring it up to 150F or 160F,
hold for 5 minutes, then chill it and bottle.  But then I thought
maybe I'd rack it into a keg, put the keg in my pot, fill the
pot with water, fire up the burner and pasteurize the thing right
in the keg.

Anyone see a problem with this 2nd option?  The only potential 
problem I see is if my keg were pressurized.  But the beer will
be right out of the 2ndary, so that shouldn't be a problem.

Comments?

 -Alan

- --
Alan McKay
Nortel Enterprise Networks
Norstar / Companion / Monterey Operations
PC Support Prime


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Date: Thu,  9 Oct 1997 13:12:08, -0500
From: sdginc at prodigy.com ( STEVE GARRETT)
Subject: Gout

Andy Walsh awalsh at crl.com.au writes:

>Medication works (most often allopurinol, which decreases 
>urate production), but once you start, you must take it 
>every day for the rest of your life.

I will keep this short as I know it applies only to a rather small 
percentage of HBDers. The worst decision I ever made in my
life was to not start taking allopurinol soon enough. I suffer 
permanent damage to the joints in my ankles for that bit of 
idiotic stubbornness.

Allopurinol is about as cheap as aspirin, and while I know 
there can be side effects, I have none that are consequential. 
(My urine smells funny.) I've been taking it for over 5 years 
now-after putting it off for 7 years. Before, I had to ration 
myself one beer per day (and still suffered gout attacks). 
Now I am not limited (by gout - just moderation). I have not 
had the slightest gout since the first month or so after 
starting to take allopurinol.

If like me, your physician suggests it and you decide to turn 
it down because you just don't like medicine-doctors-hospitals,
think again.

Cheers!
Steve Garrett
Denver, Colorado


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Date: Thu, 9 Oct 1997 12:15:01 -0500 (CDT)
From: Samuel Mize <smize at prime.imagin.net>
Subject: Boring color calculations

Greetings to all, and especially to:

> HOMEBREW Digest #2526		             Thu 09 October 1997
> From: Fredrik.Stahl at math.umu.se (Fredrik Staahl)
> Subject: Re: EBC to SRM (errata)
 ...
> P.S. Sorry if this discussion bores everyone, maybe we should take it to
> private e-mail. D.S.

PLEASE DON'T.  Or post a summary once you come to general agreement.
I say this as someone who currently doesn't give a rat's ash about
beer color calculations.

This is going to sound really pompous, but I believe it's true:
  HBD isn't just a place for us to get together and work out our own
  little brewing problems.  It's a record of how those problems got
  solved, and a repository of shared and discovered knowledge.

I recently used the HBD search engine to verify some data from my
local store, and got a big dose of useful info besides.

In the current case we have knowledgeable people discussing how the
color scales are related and how pigments affect beer color, referring
both to standard references and recent research.  This discussion and
these references will reside in the HBD archives for years to come,
easing the research of dozens (if not hundreds) of other brewers who
care about predicting the color of their beer from the grain.

On a future day, I might mature my brewing to where I care about all
that.  I want to see the information exchanged, the references used
and the answers found.  Please don't hide it from that future me.

I'd have to track you down and interrogate you.

Best,
Sam Mize

- -- 
Samuel Mize -- smize at imagin.net -- Team Ada

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Date: Thu, 09 Oct 1997 12:35:07 -0500
From: Gary Bud Melton <gary at national.lmtas.lmco.com>
Subject: Stainless quick-disconnect connectors

Does anyone know of a place where I can mail-order stainless quick-disconnect 
connectors for ball-lock kegs?  I would prefer flare fittings, not hose-barb 
connectors.

Thanks in advance,

Bud Melton
meltongl at lmtas.lmco.com


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Date: Thu, 9 Oct 1997 13:38:51 -0400 (EDT)
From: LBarrowman at aol.com
Subject: 'fridge foam/beer in Ann Arbor, MI

Tim.Watkins at analog.com asked about using expandable foam to boost the
insulation value of his fridge. I just used some called 'Great Stuff' to
patch the holes in my old serving fridge. It's very messy but works well. I
believe it is a type of expanding urethane foam. The fridge I used it on was
already insulated with urethane so material compatability was not an issue. I
don't know if squirting this stuff in the wall cavities of a fridge insulated
with fiberglass is a good idea. It would probably compact the fiberglass in
to the corners reducing the insulation value where the foam does not
penetrate. How you thought about putting styrofoam sheets on the outside? Me
thinks it might be less of a buttache.


Husband just left this morning for his class reunion in Michigan. I am left
with the task of pet sitting and writing the beer shopping list. He will be
stopping at the Merchants of Vino in Ann Arbor. We are looking for high
gravity local brews, scottish strongs, imp. stouts and belgian triples. Stuff
we can't get here. I have been there before but it was over a year ago. Is
anyone out there familiar with their current selection? Are there any unusual
goodies to found?


Laura
Charlotte  NC

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Date: Thu, 09 Oct 1997 16:40:27 -0400
From: Andrew Quinzani <quinzani at mdc.net>
Subject: RE: Got a burnin' question!

>Date: Mon, 06 Oct 1997 22:51:30 -0400
>From: James Wolff <jwolff at eci.com>
>Subject: Got a burnin' question!

>And now to my question.  As a relative newbie a have many, but I'll
start
>off simple.  I've only made about a half-dozen batches, but already my
wife
>is not a big fan of the brewing process.  She loves the end result,
mind
>you, but she can do without the "brew stank" (her words) that lingers
in
>the house for a day or so after I brew.  She has so helpfully suggested

>that I move my beermaking activities to the basement or garage.
However,
>neither location has a stove!

I understand. I went in the gararge but for other reasons...
One, I wanted to make 15 gal. batches rather than 5 or 10.
Two, the wife liked the clean floor I gave her when I was done but I
tied up the kitchen most of the day.


>In catalogs and magazines, I've seen propane burners advertised.  As I
have
>limited funds for my new hobby, I'm hoping to pick one up secondhand,
>although from where I'm not sure.  What BTU rating should I be looking
for?
 >I hope to find a burner I can hook up to the spare tank from the gas
>grill.  If anyone has ideas as to where one can be picked up on the
cheap,
>I'd be much appreciative.

I bought just the burner from "King Cooker" and built the stand to hold
a half barrel keg that I had the top plasma cut off. It is around 175k
BTU. I got the hose and regulator/shutoff valve that attaches to your
propane tank. If you are handy you can weld or bolt some angle iron
together to hold your burner and pot.
 I do not have the address or phone number as it was a few years ago but
there are two companies if I remember right, King Cooker and Cajen
cooker, or somethign like that, if you go to Wallmart or K-Mart, they
sell the whole thing. I think I got the phone number off the box and
just ordered parts, cost me less than 50 bucks with the angle iron.

>(And I will make sure my brewing area is properly ventilated, so you
don't
>even need to start warning me about the hazards of carbon monoxide.)

I open the gararge door, when done I hose the floor off and have a few
brews!

Hope this helps.


 -=Q=-


- --
"Q" Brew Brewery...Home of Hairy Chest Ale
- ------------------------------------------------------------
quinzani at mdc.net



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Date: Sat, 13 Jul 1996 22:17:07 -0400
From: "gordo" <mckeever at worldlynx.net>
Subject: Where are the brewers?

Hi All:

I've been away from the 'Digest for awhile, and I've only recently moved
into central PA. I'm looking for a brew club, or even brewers (normal
people - not NASCAR fans) in the York PA area. If anyone can provide any
help, I'd appreciate it.

Gordo

mckeever at worldlynx.net

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Date: Thu, 9 Oct 1997 15:44:29 -0700
From: Steve Armbrust <SteveA at thepalace.com>
Subject: New Glarus Belgian Red

Pardon the regional bandwidth, but...

In HBD #2526, Rob mentions New Glarus in his Jethro Gump report:

>Jethro's Best of Show Award!.....Without a doubt, New Glarus Brewing Co.'s
>Belgian Red! Simply stunning! Over a pound of cherries per bottle, and aged
>in oak, it reminded me of a big red balloon, crisp, tart, aroma to die for!
>This was the Gold Medal winner for fruit beers that Steve Bradt, Free State
>Head Brewer, dismissed himself from judging when he recognized it.
>Apparently, it has been 7 years in the tweaking stages to get it to this
>point!

Those in the Portland, OR area may be able to find a bottle of this
wonderful beer.  I found it for sale at Nature's in Beaverton.  You
might also try Pastaworks in SE Portland.  Rob's right.  The Belgian Red
is fabulous.  

Steve Armbrust
The Palace Inc.
stevea at thepalace.com


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Date: Thu, 9 Oct 1997 19:56:39 -0400 (EDT)
From: JFarrar101 at aol.com
Subject: Rests and modified malts

	First of all, let me say that I've been hooked on HBD for about 2 weeks now.
 I think the interaction between "experienced" and "beginner", "science" and
"art", etc. is just the most amazing thing going, and can only advance the
state of homebrewing.
	I've been brewing for about 2 years, and have advanced to all-grain
exclusively.  The recent thread on rests and well modified malts has got me
thinking (and questioning).  Since I went to all-grain almost a year ago, I
have, as standard procedure, been employing 3 rests in my mashing: 30 min. at
122 F.,  15 min. at 149 F., and 20 min. at 158 F., with a 5 min. mash out at
168 F.  My question is this:  In using well modified malts, what will be the
difference in the wort (and hence my beer) between the schedule above, and a
single step mash at, say, 149 F or 156 F ?
	Appreciate any and all help,
	Jeff Farrar,      Farfeyl Homebrewing

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Date: Thu, 9 Oct 1997 20:23:11 -0500
From: "Michael T. Bell" <mikeb at flash.net>
Subject: Help w/Johnson controls!!!

Ok, so I buy a Johnson Controls external thermostat.  Plug the fridge into
the JC unit, plug the JC unit into the wall, and,,,,,,,POP.  The GFI plug
trips.  What's up?  It is a regular 120v outlet with nothing else on that
particular breaker.  My yeast is screaming "Ya gotta brew Sunday" and I
don't like to upset my yeast.  Any quick answers are extremely welcome!
Private E-mail is more than OK!

Michael T. Bell
Boomerdog Brewing
Arlington, TX



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Date: Thu, 9 Oct 1997 22:12:19 -0400 (EDT)
From: Bill Macher <macher at telerama.lm.com>
Subject: Homebrew and apple pie?

Speaking Of Science And Home Brewing....

Decloaking and raising shields!

Greetings Beerlings! [ I love that salutation and just HAD to say it just once!]

I am new to home brewing,  having only about 25 (maybe 30? Just started
keeping detailed records...)  extract batches under my belt since last
November...and soon plan to move on to full grain. 

I don't claim to know much about science,  and do claim to know less about
art...But I do know I really like Grandma's home made apple pie....But
what's that got to do with BEER?

I have noticed that I enjoy the clear transparency of the beer coming out of
my kegs at the end of their life.  Usually the last glasses are noticeably
clearer than the first, so much so that I can tell when a keg is about to
run out.

The "Art vs. Science" observation recently posted in the HBD is something
that has struck me as well,  over my almost-first-year of brewing.  But I
think in a totally positive way.  I had been thinking thoughts along these
lines,  and actually wrote the body of this message about a month ago,  for
possible posting to the HBD,  as my way of trying to express something that
I could not really put into meaningful words (not to imply that anything
stated here is meaningful...).

If I have a choice,  I ALWAYS choose home-made apple pie,  with its
irregular texture but superior taste, over what they sell in the stores.
And no one EVER lets out the slightest mummer of complaint,  even though
Grandma's pies are quite different from the mass produced ones...

When I visit the farm I look forward to nothing better than a glass of that
cloudy,  brown cider.  So apple-like! No way can that processed
crystal-clear apple juice they sell at the supermarket compare the farm-made
stuff.  The farmer does not try to emulate the processed stuff,  and I am
grateful that he does not.

As homebrewers,  many of us strive for clear beer.  We use clarifying agents
or filters.  Or various other techniques. Why?  I think this goal ranks
second only to perfect sanitation.  As a newbie I could be wrong though...

On one hand we scorn the beer of the Big Boys make:  Keg wash,  that is what
it is!  Yet we worry about clarity.  I do too.  I like the look of the beer
as it drops clear as my kegs are running out. I make excuses for cloudy beer
as I serve it to guests:  "It's a little cloudy (chill haze) but it tastes
good..."  I can't imagine Grandma saying "It not as smooth as super market
pie,  but it tastes good..."  Why do I make excuses and apologize for a good
tasting brew?  Must be my scientific side speaking,  rather than whatever
amount of artist I have in me...

So,  I wonder,  have I been brainwashed over the years by the processed
beers of the big producers?  Does my technical background and employment
tend to push me to want technical perfection? 

An appreciation of the hand-crafted qualities of homebrew is evolving as I
continue to brew... I am beginning to consider chill haze a positive
quality!  It is a trait you will never find in most mega-mass-produced
brews, for sure.

I am beginning to serve my hazy beer with pride.  I probably will now
apologize as it clears towards the end of the keg!  I will emphasize to my
guests that they can't get a REAL beer like this just anywhere.  It is not
filtered at all.  100% natural goodness.  No preservatives or additives.
And it tastes GOOD, GOOD, GOOD!  Remember how much you like home-made apple
pie and farm-made cider?  Get ready to enjoy a REAL BEER.  But be  careful,
you may get hooked!  There is so much goodness in that glass that you can
hardly see through it!  AND YOU DON'T HAVE TO BE A ROCKET SCIENTIST TO MAKE IT!

Boy am I glad I got that off my chest....and yes,  we do own a pressure
cooker :-)  And no,  I wrote this one afternoon at work, nothing was in the
pipeline, and all my kegs were dry...boy I wish I could be more
technical...but that is why I read the  HBD, hoping some of that stuff will
rub off...unsolicited samples of hazy homebrew welcomed if sent
prepaid...naturally:-)  

Repeat after me:  THE HBD IS GOOD!  THE HBD is GREAT!  The HBD is G....

I have learned a lot from lurking here.  You are a great bunch of guys...I
truly feel this forum has greatly accelerated my brewing experience.  Keep
that technical stuff coming!

Turning lurker mode back on now...

Cloaking again,  and keeping shields raised....

Hey Homer!  Grab me another homebrew and get your butt over here!  Jethro,
you wanna come?

Beam us up,  Scottie!

Bill

PS - In case my sig file comes across...no better way to make room for
homebrew than by commuting 32 miles per day by bicycle:-)

When climbing slowly, with 90 LB of bike and gear
Or flying down the other side, sailing through the air
There is no question; in MY mind it's clear
I am both the turtle, AND the hare! 

( macher at telerama.lm.com		Pittsburgh, Pa. 	USA )


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Date: Thu, 09 Oct 1997 22:35:21 -0400
From: Doug Moyer <moyer-de at salem.ge.com>
Subject: Starting a homebrew club

Gentle collective,
        Last night, a dozen of us gathered together to tentatively
approach the formation of a new homebrew club. Our closest
AHA-sanctioned clubs are over 150 miles away, so we are pretty much on
our own. HELP! Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Doug Moyer
Roanoke, Virginia

p.s. how about Big Lick United Enthusists of Zymurgy (BLUEZ)? Are we
stepping on anyone's toes?
(Big Lick was the original name of Roanoke)

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Date: Thu, 9 Oct 1997 23:36:17 -0400 (EDT)
From: TheTHP at aol.com
Subject: Scientific Pumpkin Brewing


The secret to getting the pumpkin flavor into your pumpkin beer is in the
preparation of the pumpkins themselves.  Use small bowling ball sized "Neck"
or "Pie" pumpkins.  With a medium sized knife carefully remove the stem. With
a larger knife split the pumpkin in half top to bottom. With your large metal
brewing spoon remove all the seeds and attached spindules. Now the scientific
part. Measure the diameter of the cross section. Measuring around the fattest
part of the pumpkin (equator) determine the distance around the hemisphere.
Double this to obtain the circumference. The secret of the pumpkin flavor is
to divide the circumference by its diameter....  ;<)

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Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 03:31:13 -0400 (EDT)
From: OCaball299 at aol.com
Subject: Guiness

Doesn't this tell it all?

<< Brenda O'Malley is home as usual, making dinner, when Tim Finnegan
arrives at her door.

"Brenda, may I come in?" he asks.  "I've somethin' to tell ya."

"Of course you can come in, you're always welcome, Tim.  But where's my
husband?"

"That's what I'm here to be tellin' ya, Brenda.  There was an accident down
at the Guiness brewery..."

"Oh, God no!" cries Brenda.  "Please don't tell me..."

"I must, Brenda.  Your husband Seamus is dead and gone. I'm sorry."

Brenda reached a hand out to her side, found the arm of the rocking
chair by the fireplace, pulled the chair to her and collapsed into it. She
wept for many minutes.  Finally she looked up at Tim. "How did it happen,
Tim?"

"It was terrible, Brenda. He fell into a vat of Guiness Stout and drowned."

"Oh my dear Jesus!  But you must tell me true, Tim.  Did he at least go
quickly?"

"Well, no Brenda......no."

"No?"

"Fact is, he got out three times to pee." >>


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Date: Thu, 09 Oct 1997 07:40:00 -0700
From: David Johnson <dmjalj at inwave.com>
Subject: New Glarus Belgian Red

I just couldn't resist commenting after reading Jethro's post regarding 
the Belgian Red. Living right down the highway from New Glarus has its 
advantages. One of these being that our brew club was able to have a tour 
of the brewery with Dan Carey. He was most graciuos and interesting to 
talk to. He also appeared to enjoy talking to a group that at least had a 
basic understanding of his work. At one point he went out and got a 
pitcher of the Belgian Red before it was to be transferred to the 
secondary and onto the cherries. I tell you that beneath all that fruit 
that blew Jethro away was an amazing beer that just blew ME away. It is 
apparently based on a Belgian Brown. It was sweet and sour and had a 
slight taste of black tea. Really hard to describe. He talked about 
bringing it out as a seasonal without the cherries. But I haven't seen it 
yet. I plan on buying a case when it comes out. If any of you run into 
Dan or Deb you may mention you heard about this amazing beer that 
they're not selling. It goes to show you that if you want to make a great 
fruit beer, first make a great beer, (choose a style that is not heavily 
bitter) and then use great fruit.
	All this enthusiasm makes me thirsty!
			Dave Johnson (in southern Wisconsin)



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Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 09:18:34 -0400
From: Katy or Delano DuGarm <dugarm at mnsinc.com>
Subject: Do big beers always win?

Don H Van Valkenburg writes:

>However,  when was the last time you saw a mild win best of show??

Umm, I guess that would be the last competition I judged at, the Spirit
of Free Beer in June. A dark mild won out of 401 entries.  Second BOS
went to a weizen, and 3rd to a barleywine. I used to think that the big
guy always wins, and entered overstrength porters and IPAs, until I
started to get comments on judging sheets like "Great beer, but too big
for style." Or "Try this at a lower gravity."  I've tried to mend my
ways.

Delano DuGarm
Arlington, VA



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---