HOMEBREW Digest #2548 Tue 04 November 1997

[Prev HBD] [Index] [Next HBD] [Back]

		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com

  Charles Papazian (Vernon R Land)
  water analyses// airlock (smurman)
  Re: How many carboys ("Mark S. Johnston")
  Lima Ohio Club Startup (John Rezabek)
  re: E. coli in pH and alcohol... ("Michel J. Brown")
  re:Steinbier Rock Temp ("Michel J. Brown")
  Yeast starter pH? (David Muzidal)
  Copper and oxygenated wort (Simon Charlton)
  Magnetic Stir Plate (Kyle Druey)
  Silicon Sealants ("Dodge, Christopher")
  http://www.beertax.org.uk (breWorld)
  Canning kettle and counter-flow wort chiller ("Frank Klaassen")
  Hopping and two kettles ("Frank Klaassen")
  Mashing Equations ("Frank Klaassen")
  Re: Wort stability/sanitation ("P. Edwards")
  E. coli in pH and alcohol (Dave Whitman)
  Re:yeast & artists (Jim Wallace)
  reusing yeast in carboy (Mark Tumarkin)
  Transferring lager to secondary (David S Draper)
  Re:  Airlock design / Yeast pitching (George De Piro)
  Wort Stability Test (Tom_Williams)
  Hoegaarden yeast question (Jeff)
  carboy collectors anonymous! ("Paul A. Baker")
  Agave Brew (Don H Van Valkenburg)
  Yeast Problems (Jim Daley)
  A no rinse sanitizer? (Jim Daley)
  Traquair House Ale - Grain Bill Question (Charles Burns)
  Re: Wort stability test and lag times (George De Piro)
  full boil, ("David R. Burley")
  Wort stability test; taking offense at taking offense (Samuel Mize)

NOTE NEW HOMEBREW ADDRESS: hbd.org Send articles for __publication_only__ to homebrew at hbd.org (Articles are published in the order they are received.) If your e-mail account is being deleted, please unsubscribe first!! To SUBSCRIBE or UNSUBSCRIBE send an e-mail message with the word "subscribe" or "unsubscribe" to homebrew-request@hbd.org. **SUBSCRIBE AND UNSUBSCRIBE REQUESTS MUST BE SENT FROM THE E-MAIL **ACCOUNT YOU WISH TO HAVE SUBSCRIBED OR UNSUBSCRIBED!!! IF YOU HAVE SPAM-PROOFED your e-mail address, the autoresponder and the SUBSCRIBE/UNSUBSCRIBE commands will fail! For "Cat's Meow" information, send mail to brewery at realbeer.com Homebrew Digest Information on the Web: http://hbd.org Requests for back issues will be ignored. Back issues are available via: Anonymous ftp from... hbd.org /pub/hbd ftp.stanford.edu /pub/clubs/homebrew/beer E-mail... ftpmail at gatekeeper.dec.com (send a one-line e-mail message with the word help for instructions.) AFS users can find it under... /afs/ir.stanford.edu/ftp/pub/clubs/homebrew/beer JANITORS on duty: Pat Babcock and Karl Lutzen (janitor@hbd.org)
---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 1 Nov 1997 13:07:48 -0500 From: vland1 at juno.com (Vernon R Land) Subject: Charles Papazian Everyone quotes Charles Papazian, is he still alive? Also, I use the 5 gallon plastic bucket lautertun described in his book and it seems to work great. I have not seen any discussion on this type of lautertun here and was wondering if I am the only one using it? It seems to lauter fairly fast, although, the first batch of brew I made with it came out great. The runnings weren't clear, but who cares, the beer tasted fine and I had acceptable (to me) gravities. Vern Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 01 Nov 1997 13:29:06 -0800 From: smurman at best.com Subject: water analyses// airlock I see folks post their water numbers from time-to-time, and I've also gotten mine from the local water dude, but it's been my opinion that these things aren't really worth the paper they're printed on. Some of the more water-knowledgable folks please comment here. My feeling is that seasonal variations in the water supply make the actual content unreliable. What the public works folks give you is an average, but I know that here in the S.F. Bay area we can get much different minerals and what-not in our water depending on how much snowmelt we're getting, if it's mid-summer, etc. Last winter for example we had some flooding so the water folks had to crank their treatment plants up, but even then it wasn't enough. We ended up with a lot of chloride compounds and a lot of other stuff for a month or so. Killed two of my fish before I noticed what was going on. When I bother to treat my water, I pre-boil it and decant off. I figure then I'm probably starting from a more consistent base. So what do the DPW staffers think? Is there enough variation in water supplies to make a detailed analysis inaccurate? // Regarding the long-term storage airlock. It sounds like what you want to do is purge it with CO2, and then seal it up as tight as you can. Some type of heavy-duty plastic and a tight rubberband would probably be enough. The amount of CO2 in the headspace of a carboy prolly wouldn't be enough to lead to a "gassy" brew. The other thing that comes to mind is somehow evacuating the headspace, but that would probably be difficult to maintain long-term. SM Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 1 Nov 1997 16:44:44 -0500 From: "Mark S. Johnston" <msjohnst at talon.net> Subject: Re: How many carboys Paul Baker asks how many carboys people have/use/need. I have 3 usable 5 gallon carboys, a 7 gallon one, two 3 gallon, and a 13 gallon. I also have two 5 gallon bottles that were left in front of a neighbor's house for trash pickup. I tried to clean them up, but they were scratched and stained beyond salvage. One of them is collecting spare change for the kids' college fund. - -- "If a man is not a liberal at eighteen, he has no heart. If he is not a conservative by the time he is thirty, he has no mind." - Winston Churchill Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 01 Nov 1997 20:44:32 -0500 From: John Rezabek <rezabeks at alpha.wcoil.com> Subject: Lima Ohio Club Startup We have begun a homebrew club in the Lima, Ohio area (USA). If this interests you please drop me a line for details. This month we plan to meet on November 17 (Monday) at the new Meyer Brewing Company in nearby Delphos, Ohio. Brewer / president John Meyer has created a remarkable little 5-bbl system, and designed and built his own bottling line. Suppliers, if you have customers in our area (419 area code, 458xx zip) we'd like to get word to them somehow. Regards, John Rezabek rezabeks at alpha.wcoil.com Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 2 Nov 1997 02:58:05 -0800 From: "Michel J. Brown" <homemade at spiritone.com> Subject: re: E. coli in pH and alcohol... >I conclude that E. coli will grow in solutions of under 4% EtOH, Another good reason for a healthy ETOH amount ;^) >that a solution of 5% EtOH will cause E. coli to become dormant Thank goodness most of my beers are >5%! >Anything over 6% actively kills E. coli cells. There, proof (at least one data point) that brews of moderate strength are *good* for you. Seeing as how E. Coli are enteric bacteria, however, would this only apply in the case of when you're making a "butt" beer ;^) >If anybody has brewed good extract porters and would like to share their expertise, >I'd appreciate it. While I don't have the extract equivalent, I have a most excellant Brown Porter recipe called "Entire Firkin Butt" Porter. KennyEddy at aol.com has software at his web page http://members.aol.com/kennyeddy to convert from grain to extract. TTYL, God Bless! Dr. Michel J. Brown, D.C. homemade at spiritone.com http://www.spiritone.com/~homemade/index.html "Big Man don't drink no stinking light beer!" "Big Man drink beer what got BIG TASTE!" Big Man Brewing (R) 1996 Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 2 Nov 1997 03:10:24 -0800 From: "Michel J. Brown" <homemade at spiritone.com> Subject: re:Steinbier Rock Temp >This temperature cannot be correct. Graywackes will be more than 50% >*molten* at 1200 C and atmospheric pressure. Either it is actually 1200 F >(about 650C, much more reasonable) or the number 1200 is a transcription >error. Dave, I have the utmost respect for your skills as a geologist (not my forte however), but I did confirm the 1200'C rock temp, which I felt a bit high myself. This was told to me by the brewers at Rauchenfels in Coburg, Germany (my old home town), last time I was back there (1975?). Perhaps they are using a different composition of graywacke then what you are familiar with, or maybe they are just blowing methane ;^) Dr. Michel J. Brown, D.C. homemade at spiritone.com http://www.spiritone.com/~homemade/index.html "Big Man don't drink no stinking light beer!" "Big Man drink beer what got BIG TASTE!" Big Man Brewing (R) 1996 Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 2 Nov 1997 13:27:13 -0600 From: David Muzidal <Dave.Muzidal at dssc.slg.eds.com> Subject: Yeast starter pH? Should I be concerned with the pH of my yeast starters? I just made a starter for a pale ale/IPA using Wyeast American Ale II as follows: 1 pint tap water 5 tablespoons light DME (Munton & Fison) 1/8 teaspoon yeast nutrient (first time I have used this) Boiled for 15 minutes, cooled then pitched swollen Wyeast pack. The pH of the wort before adding the yeast nutrient was around 6. After adding the yeast nutrient the pH rose to about 7. I was not sure if adding gypsum to get the pH down would be a good idea, so I left things as they were. My water is high in bicarbonates and low in calcium. I have been having some problems with slow fermetations and wonder if my water composition/pH has anything to do with it? I am not sure what steps I should take to make my water suitable for a lighter style of beer (pre-boil with gypsum, dilute with distilled water or just use bottled water, etc.) Any words of wisdom would be appreciated! Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 03 Nov 1997 14:24:32 +1030 From: Simon Charlton <simon.charlton at unisa.edu.au> Subject: Copper and oxygenated wort Greetings Collective, Thanks to luck I may be able to get my hands on materials and skilled people to build a copper fermentor, custom made to fit my newly acquired beer fridge, all at a reasonable price. Basically a rectangular-ish copper tank soldered together with silver solder. I remember a recent post (last few months) about copper leeching into acidic wort in the presence of oxygen, but could not find it again in the archive. I was intending to oxygenate the wort in the copper tank prior to fermentation, is this safe? Any ideas about other materials to substitute, (from what I hear SS plate is expensive, harder to cut and tricky to weld) I was intending to use steam to sanitize so glass and plastics are out. Cheers, Simon Charlton <Simon.Charlton at UniSa.edu.au> Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 02 Nov 1997 23:27:52 -0800 From: Kyle Druey <kdldmd at lightspeed.net> Subject: Magnetic Stir Plate HBD Collective: Does anyone have information or experience in using a magnetic stir plate when culturing yeast? Brewers Resource offers one for $75 and claims that it can increase yeast cell count by 9 fold. Check it out at the following URL: http://www.brewtek.com/adv-labware.html. Any comments? Kyle Druey brewing in Bakersfield, CA Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 02 Nov 1997 21:01:44 -0500 From: "Dodge, Christopher" <cdodge at ptc.com> Subject: Silicon Sealants Does anyone know if there is a food grade silicon sealant. I use general clear silicon sealer rated for kitchen and aquarium use to help seal my plastic fitting to my picnic cooler mash tun. I believe the silicon is non-reacting to anything my mash could produce and I have been using it for awhile now. The mash does come in contact with the silicon and I was wondering if this in OK or is there a food grade rated product available. Thanks Chris Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 03 Nov 1997 07:09:10 +0000 From: breWorld <intray at breworld.com> Subject: http://www.beertax.org.uk Dear Homebrewer Apologies for the intrusion into the newsgroup on behalf of the Society of Independent Brewers of Great Britain. This is a one-off announcement, but I hope everybody appreciates the importance of the campaign and the implications it could have on brewing in Britain. Please find below details of the Campaign to reduce beertax in the UK. In order to spread the word as quick as possible we ask everybody to forward the message below to as many people as possible. Only a large number of votes will make a impact - it is your campaign whether your are a member of SIBA or not. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Dear Beerlover You are hopefully aware that the Society of Independent Brewers (SIBA) is currently campaigning for a reduction of the beer tax on http://www.beertax.org.uk In order to make the necessary impact with the MP's who are currently considering this issue we hope to get as many people as possible to pledge their support on the "First Internet Beer Ballot". Please look at the site, where you will find out the reasons behind SIBA's campaign. We think the arguments are pretty conclusive. We hope that everybody who receives this message can forward it to 10 friends on email who should forward it also . This should very quickly create a large number of people that are aware of the campaign and support SIBA. Important URL http://www.beertax.org.uk email mailto:phaydon at breworld.com +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 3 Nov 1997 06:38:41 -0500 From: "Frank Klaassen" <klaassen at chass.utoronto.ca> Subject: Canning kettle and counter-flow wort chiller "The bottom line: Should I buy an 8 gallon enameled canning pot to take the plunge to all grain and fake all the other accoutrements?" We've been brewing with extract for ten years or so. I was scared off by the need for other equipment and by the fact that my impression was that it was a LOT of trouble. Well its not. We just started all-grain on a budget and committed our second batch to the primary last night. Even our first batch in which we did almost everything wrong without ANY of the proper equipment was better than our extract based beer. So go all grain. But I would REALLY recommend reading a bunch of the available net info on home-made contraptions for beer. I don't know if this means we were "faking" it but they all surpassed my expectations. The need for more boiling capacity led us to use my 24 litre stainless steel stock pot along with the canning kettle. An interesting exercise. The stainless steel pot, which has a thick bottom boiled quickly and efficiently. The canning kettle (which I have happily used for ten years figuring I had no options) took forever by comparison and it was difficult to get a good boil going despite having it over two burners. We will certainly invest in another 22L stainless steel pot, giving us enough capacity for our five gallon batches. With all that extra time put in mashing it will be nice to save the extra half hour to one hour lost with inefficient heat conduction. The savings with a canning kettle may well be eaten up in extra time, trouble, or additional equipment like the pizza stone. (What a great idea though. I have been looking for an excuse to buy one...) Incidentally, thanks to all those who have posted info about counter-flow wort chillers. I made a 25 foot one putting a valve on it to control the flow so that the wort would have enough time in the chiller to efficiently cool. I wanted to avoid the expense and trouble of dealing with two 40 foot lengths of tubing. The thing worked like a charm. (I used a copper ball valve figuring I could immerse the thing in boiling water to assure sanitization if necessary.) What a joy not to have to sit around watching the thermometer drop late into the evening! Now if I can just get the "powers that be" to sign that requisition for a new kettle after spending my pin money on copper tubing, valves, etc... ______________________ Frank Klaassen klaassen at chass.utoronto.ca Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 3 Nov 1997 06:43:16 -0500 From: "Frank Klaassen" <klaassen at chass.utoronto.ca> Subject: Hopping and two kettles No dosh for one big kettle. I will be using two for some time for my boils. On this batch I used a muslin bag for my hops and moved the thing back and forth so that both boils got some. Perhaps this solves the problem of whether to throw hops in both or just one of the kettles? _______________________ Frank Klaassen klaassen at chass.utoronto.ca Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 3 Nov 1997 07:11:39 -0500 From: "Frank Klaassen" <klaassen at chass.utoronto.ca> Subject: Mashing Equations I understand the calculation for figuring out the initial temperature of water (Y) for the first step in a mash is weight of water x (Y - final mash temp desired) = Weight of Malt x 0.3822 x (final mash temp. desired - dry malt temp) I don't see the need for decoction mashing at the moment as it seems a bit of a hassle for a novice who is at this stage only doing ales. But I want to do at least two-temperature mashes. Can any of the scientists in residence give me the equation for calculating the amount of boiling water to add to a given volume of mash to get a desired temperature? Or are these posted somewhere that I have not been able to locate? ______________________ Frank Klaassen klaassen at chass.utoronto.ca Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 3 Nov 97 07:33:23 -0500 From: "P. Edwards" <pedwards at iquest.net> Subject: Re: Wort stability/sanitation Charles Hudak writes: >Before everyone sounds off about how bad 12 or even 24 hour lag times are, >let me ask ALL of you: Have you ever done a wort stability test? >Yeah...didn't think so. >I have. In my brewery, oxygenated, unpitched wort has gone four days >without ANY off flavors or fermentive activity when incubated at 80-90F. >That being the case, I have no concern for long lag times because they >*will not* be the cause of off flavors. I'm interested of the details of how this test was conducted. Was this five gallons of wort in a 6.5 gallon glass carboy or a 7 gallon plastic pail with room air above the wort? If not, then maybe it's not representative of most HB set-ups, where cooled wort is exposed to a fair amount of room air either in the fermenter or on it's way into it. Unless people are working in filtered clean rooms, or have a closed system between kettle and fermenter, then the wort will be most likely exposed to enough airborne bacteria for potential harm. Right now, my QA consists of occasionally putting a few samples of bottled beer back for 6-12 months or more and seeing if I get any gushers, off-flavors, etc. that would indicate bacterial activity (yeah, I know that's a little like cllosing the barn door after the cows escape). I've done some plates with both wort and finished beer in the past using HLP and came up clean, so I don't mess with it anymore. This isn't to say I've never made an infected beer. I just haven't had that misfortune in many years, knock on wood. Also, potential for bacterial contamination is only one area of concern in underpitched wort/long lag times, in my experience and from what I've read. Increased levels of esters, esp ethyl acetate (the solventy ester) can be problematic in underpitched beers, especially with some strains of yeast. I've noticed it especially wih some of the "abbey" beer yeasts. I think since most of these beers are high gravity brews, the problems of underpitching are exacerbated. Excessive fruity esters can be problematic and cause a beer to out of balance, even if otherwise clean. Speaking of cleanliness, have any of you seen or tried "BioSentry" sanitizer. I found this stuff at a farm store, and it's labelled as being for cleaning/sanitizing poultry houses, dairy plants, food processing equipment, hand rinsing, etc. I don't have the exact proportions in front of me, but the stuff is a mixture of an Iodine complex and Phosphoric acid. One ounce in five gallons gives 25 ppm of active iodine. Sanitation contact time is 1-2 minutes with air dry, just like BTF. However, it can be used at "double strength" to help clean surfaces of grime, something BTF can't do. Also, if you're cleaning with Red Devil lye or another form of NaOH, you're got the phos acid to neutralize it. I clean with All Free & Clear powdered dishwasher detergent, then follow with BioSentry. While I like how PBW works, it's kind of pricey in those small packets. Best part: it's a lot cheaper than BTF which runs anywhere from $9-$14 a quart, depending on the sources I've seen. and cheaper than the phos acid mix from Five Star. My local HB shop sells BioSentry for $22 a gallon. You may find it a bit cheaper if you see it in a farm store, if you have one nearby. No connection, etc. I just like the stuff. - --Paul E. Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 03 Nov 1997 07:50:53 -0500 From: Dave Whitman <dwhitman at rohmhaas.com> Subject: E. coli in pH and alcohol In HBD#2546, Jesse Stricker reports on a neat experiment on ethanol tolerance in E. coli. I wanted to warn of a possible problem that might affect the results. Jesse says: > I made culture tubes with rich bacterial growth medium and >absolute analytical-grade EtOH in varying concentrations. Most absolute EtOH is manufactured by removing the last traces of water from 95% EtOH by adding a little benzene, then distilling off the water/ethanol/benzene azeotrope. Reagent grade absolute EtOH has very low water content, but can contain not-insignificant amounts of benzene. The folk wisdom in grad school was that if you were going to party with lab ethanol and live to tell about it, you wanted the 95% stuff, not the absolute grade. I worry that if you used absolute ethanol in this experiment, the level you determined for killing off the E. coli could partially due to the benzene. If the bottle you used said "spectrophotometric grade", you're probably ok; benzene screws up UV absorbance of the solvent, so they use a different method to dry it. Dave Whitman dwhitman at rohmhaas.com "Opinions expressed are those of the author, and not Rohm and Haas Company" Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 03 Nov 1997 08:02:48 -0500 From: Jim Wallace <jwallace at crocker.com> Subject: Re:yeast & artists - ----------"P. Edwards" <pedwards at iquest.net>writes --------------------------- - I consider myself more of an "artisan brewer", but I'm not going to put my head in the sand, either, if I see science that can help me achieve my goals. All the artists - sculptors, potters, painters, photographers, etc - I've ever met have a lot more knowlege about the technical side of their chosen medium than you might think. Knowing the science can make you a better artist. - ----------------------------------------------------------------- Being a brewer who makes his living as a fine artist/photographer (imodest plug here... www.crocker.com/~jwallace), My art would have suffered much if I had ignored the technical side of things. My background was premed/environmental sciences but for 2/3 of my working life I have supported myself as a fine artist. My approach has always been to learn as much as I can about whatever process I am involved with and then make the decisions as to which controls to disregard/ignore. In my professional/artistic work today there is an incredible amount of technical background behind the finished work. The same thing in the brews I make. I travel and taste many beers from which I get ideas for what I want to make. If I did not have a good idea of what my technical options are I would find myself limited in creating my own versions (departures as they are). In my opinion, Art can only exist when there is the craft(tech) to support it. ___________________________________________ JIM WALLACE ... jwallace at crocker.com www.crocker.com/~jwallace ___________________________________________ Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 03 Nov 1997 09:22:37 -0500 From: Mark Tumarkin <tumarkin at mindspring.com> Subject: reusing yeast in carboy hi all: John Wilkinson writes- >I pitch fairly large starters that have been stepped up about three times >or reuse yeast from the previous batch. I usually brew three batches in >succession so I can easily reuse the yeast. I merely siphon off the completed >beer and pour the chilled new wort into the fermenter onto the sediment. >I get 75% apparent attenuation with no rousing or oxygenation after the initial >oxygenation. This brought up a question I was thinking about yesterday as I was putting a new batch into the fermenter. I have also used this technique (reusing yeast from previous batch) very successfully. I would use it more except that it pretty much requires the subsequent batch (or batches) to be a style that will do well with the same yeast and this is not always what I want to do. It is also a very good method for preparing a mondo "starter" for higher gravity styles such as barleywine, imperial stout, old ale, etc. Anyway, my question concerns the use of dry hopping when using this technique. I dry hop with leaf hops (as seems to be the most common practice), but even with pellets you end up with a lot of hops in the yeast cake at the bottom of the fermenter. Is this a problem? And if so, what would be the best way to deal with it? I really like the simplicity of this method - does that make me lazy? By the way, that was a great post on the laziness thread from Jim Booth. TIA, Mark Tumarkin The Brewery in the Jungle Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 3 Nov 1997 08:39:53 -0600 (CST) From: David S Draper <ddraper at utdallas.edu> Subject: Transferring lager to secondary Dear Friends, Eric Pendergrass asked when he should transfer his lager to a second fermenter, noting that his fermentation appears to be very healthy, having started quickly and continued well at 46 F. Your fermentation does indeed appear to be quite healthy; I envy it! Here are a couple of things to think about when deciding when to rack. If your yeast strain is prone to diacetyl production, then a gradual temperature increase (over a day or two) to about 15C/60F (check me on the F temp), holding there for 2-3 days, is sometimes used. It's important that your primary fermentation be complete before doing this so that your lager yeast don't start producing unwanted flavors. At these slightly warmer temps, the lager yeast will re-absorb diacetyl produced earlier. You can then rack and begin cooling the beer to your lager temperature, at a few degrees per day. Depending on your pitching rate, some lager ferments can slow down in the final stages (my most common problem when making lagers). Thus it's important to take gravity readings to know when primary fermentation is complete. In Eric's particular case, I would guess that he'll have fewer problems of that kind than I have thanks to his pitch. Finally, as Eric noted, the "rotten egg" smell of SO2 is common in lager fermentation. Chances are that no extra steps will be necessary to prevent the smell from getting into the packaged beer. By the time primary fermentation subsides, most of the SO2 is scrubbed out, and what isn't typically dissipates during lagering anyway. So in Eric's case, it looks like All Systems are Go. Bless its pointed little head, Dave in Dallas - -- David S. Draper ddraper at utdallas.edu Fax: 214-883-2829 Dept. Geosciences WWW: hbd.org/~ddraper Electron Probe Lab: Univ. Texas at Dallas 972-883-2407 ...That's right, you're not from Texas... but Texas wants you anyway... Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 3 Nov 1997 09:01:47 -0800 From: George_De_Piro at berlex.com (George De Piro) Subject: Re: Airlock design / Yeast pitching This is a Mime message, which your current mail reader may not understand. Parts of the message will appear as text. To process the remainder, you will need to use a Mime compatible mail reader. Contact your vendor for details. - --IMA.Boundary.827075878 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: cc:Mail note part Hi all, Just a quick note on airlock design. In HBD 2546 Paul Niebergall misunderstood my post about airlock design, and I wanted to clear things up because of the possible danger involved. I did not say to use a weight as heavy as those on pressure cookers for a fermentation airlock; I said to use a device SIMILAR to the ones on pressure cookers. If too much mass is used on the pressure relief valve, the pressure in the fermenter will get too high. This could inhibit the yeast, or worse, explode the carboy. I doubt that anybody was running out to redesign their airlocks using pressure cooker parts, but posted this just in case... ------------------------- In private correspondence with some people about pitching rates, I have realized that it may be useful to quickly repeat how homebrewers can optimize pitching rates without costly lab equipment. It is acceptable to dilute yeast starters (not thick slurry; a starter is the same consistency as fermenting beer) up to 10 times per step. So if you smack a Wyeast pack, that's a 50 mL starter (that's how much wort it contains). Once the pack is swollen you can step it up 10X to 500 mL (just over 1 pint for those in metric denial). From 500 mL you can step up to 5000 mL (~1.3 gallon or so). From 5000 mL you could inoculate a 50 L batch. Each time you step up you should provide a lot of oxygen for the yeast. If you provide constant aeration you will grow up more cells faster. When making high gravity beers or lagers you should pitch more yeast, so only do a 5X dilution from the last starter into your fermenter (i.e., 1 gallon starter into a 5 gallon batch (3.8 L up to 19 L). Also, when growing lager yeasts, you can keep the temperature in ale range, but you must slowly cool the yeast before pitching it, so as to not shock it on brew day. I would let the last starter step ferment out near lager yeast temp and cool it to pitching temp a few days in advance. On brew day pour off the liquid over the yeast cake and resuspend the yeast in wort of the same temperature. Then you can pitch that active, cool slurry later in the day. If you follow this simple process, you will experience very short lag times (<6 hours). If you don't want to pitch 5-10% starter wort into your batch, you can let it ferment out and allow the yeast to settle. Once it is reasonably clear, you can pour the liquid off the yeast, then feed it a small amount of wort on brew day morn (just enough wort to suspend the yeast). This will get the yeast going again, and when you pitch it later in the day, you will experience a very short lag. As you can see, this procedure requires that you plan a bit in advance for brewing sessions. It takes about 7-10 days to get from Wyeast pack to pitching volume (lagers take a bit longer because of the cooling step). You can step up more slowly if you like. Use wort of reasonable gravity for starters (1.035-1.050). Don't use worts that contain sugar or non-malt adjuncts (you want maximum nutrition for the yeast). You can step up the starter at high Kraeusen or post Kraeusen. Pitching a large amount of healthy, active yeast is very important. Yes, you can make beer by underpitching, but you will maximize the chance of making outstanding beer if you pitch adequately. I cannot emphasize this enough. Have fun! George De Piro (Nyack, NY) - --IMA.Boundary.827075878-- Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 3 Nov 1997 10:35:03 -0500 From: Tom_Williams at cabot-corp.com Subject: Wort Stability Test Charles Hudak wirtes: "Before everyone sounds off about how bad 12 or even 24 hour lag times are, let me ask ALL of you: Have you ever done a wort stability test?" While I will agree that shorter lag times are better than longer lag times, I also have some skepticism, based on my modest brewing experience, that 24 hour lag times are bad. OK Charles, I'm game. How does a homebrewer do this test? Tom Williams Dunwoody, Georgia Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 3 Nov 1997 10:59:23 -0500 From: mcnallyg at gam83.npt.nuwc.navy.mil (Jeff) Subject: Hoegaarden yeast question Hi All, I'm getting ready to brew my first attempt at a White beer (ie Witbier) and have been looking at many references (on and offline). I have seen many recipes where people have used the yeast cultured from bottles of Hoegaarden. I actually obtained a couple bottles for just this purpose. However, in Micheal Jackson's "Beer Companion" (page 65) he says that Hoegaarden bottles with a yeast different from the one used for the primary fermentation. Can anyone shed some light on this subject and/or provide some practical experience on using the yeast from bottles of Hoegaarden? Hoppy brewing, Jeff ============================================================================== Geoffrey A. McNally Phone: (401) 841-7210 x152 Mechanical Engineer Fax: (401) 841-7250 Launcher Technology & Analysis Branch email: mcnallyg at gam83.npt.nuwc.navy.mil Naval Undersea Warfare Center Code 8322; Bldg. 1246/2 Newport, RI 02841-1708 Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 03 Nov 1997 10:22:26 -0600 From: "Paul A. Baker" <pbaker at facstaff.wisc.edu> Subject: carboy collectors anonymous! Dear Homebrewers: Wow! 65 HBD readers responded to my question last week: "How many glass carboys do you use?" According to my survey, we each own an average of 5.3 glass carboys of various sizes. The largest number of carboys anyone reported owning was 15. The largest clusters of respondents reported owning 3, 4, or 5 carboys each. The range of responses was as follows: # of # of carboys respondents 1 01 2 07 3 11 4 13 5 12 6 05 7 03 8 03 9 02 10 04 11 01 12 02 13 00 14 00 15 01 Some respondents included plastic primary fermentors in their answers, but I excluded plastic from my tally. When respondents did not specify glass or plastic, I assumed they were all glass. So, how do you rate? Maybe we under-average guys can mention this to our significant others. After all, Christmas is coming. Paul Baker pbaker at facstaff.wisc.edu (608) 263-8814 Wisconsin Center for Education Research http://www.wcer.wisc.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 3 Nov 1997 08:51:00 -0800 From: steinfiller at juno.com (Don H Van Valkenburg) Subject: Agave Brew Andrew (Ahenckler <Ahenckler at aol.com>) writes regarding agave brews: >What did this stuff taste like? What kind of yeast did you use? I saw an ad >in Zymurgy (?) for agave extract and was thinking about playing with this >stuff, but I was wondering what the outcome would be. This is one of those situations where it is difficult to describe a flavor in words. The best comparison I can make is to tequila -- yes, definitely reminiscent of the flavors found in tequila. It is highly fermentable, like any simple sugar. It ferments out rather dry and I am thus thinking of using some carapils or crystal in my next batch to add some residual sweetness for balance. I think the yeast is an open subject, as this application for agave is fairly unexplored as far as I know. When brewing with agave, I immediately think of the mixed drink; margarita; citrus, lime, orange (triple sec) etc. Thus I have experimented along these flavor guidelines and used hops that have citrus like flavors such as cascade and bullion to name a few. I also added some sweet orange peel in post fermentation. Pulque is another matter. I have never tried it but others who have tell me that it is brewed almost like a lambic with wild yeasts and consumed very young, almost while still fermenting. Mexican Americans tell me that in addition to agave, pulque is often made with fruits such as papaya or mango. As a matter of disclaimer I must add that I am affiliated with the company marketing agave to the homebrew market. Don Van Valkenburg steinfiller at juno.com Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 03 Nov 1997 12:04:17 -0500 From: Jim Daley <jgdaley at gw.dec.state.ny.us> Subject: Yeast Problems I've been brewing for about 4 years, and using liquid yeast for about 3 and a half years. I've never had a problem with liquid yeast until my last two brews. I generally collect yeast from the primary, wash it with sterile water, and store it under sterile water in the refrigerator. After about 3 or 4 brews with the same yeast, I step up a new Wyeast culture. For the first brew of this season I used yeast that was stored in the fridge for about 4 months - I knew I was pushing it but decided to try it. I pitched it into a 1 qt. starter first. After 2 days in the primary with no action, I panicked and used a packet of Edme dry yeast. An very active fermentation ensued and was done in about 2 days. For my second brew, I stepped up a Wyeast culture of the British II yeast. It was giving off a very fruity/estery odor - not a clean fresh yeast smell. I decided not to pitch this and instead again resorted to a packet of Edme dried yeast. After rehydration, this yeast was giving off a green apple aroma, but I pitched it any way. I seem to suddenly having bad luck with yeast. I have not used a dried yeast in over 3 years. My question is, what can I expect? How good is dried yeast? Will my finished beers be as good as ones made with a liquid yeast? The beer styles were an American brown and a pale ale. I am an all grain brewer, the worts are aerated with oxygen before pitching, and fermentation temps are held at 68 degrees in an old refrigerator. Jim Daley jgdaley at gw.dec.state.ny.us Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 03 Nov 1997 12:19:24 -0500 From: Jim Daley <jgdaley at gw.dec.state.ny.us> Subject: A no rinse sanitizer? My brother in law works in a bar, and the last time I was there he was = prepping the place for the upcoming night. To sanitize glasses, they use = a no-rinse sanitizer that comes in a tablet form. Does anybody out there = know if this would be a good no-rinse sanitizer for home brewing?=20 The specifics are as follows: Brand name: Cavalier (=22Multi-purpose sanitizing tablets=22) Active Ingredient: 50%; Alkyl(C14 95%, C12 3%, C16 2%) dimethyl = benzyl ammonium chloride dihydrate. Directions for use: 1 tablet in 1 =BD gal water (200 ppm). Soak one = minute then air dry (often not dried in bar situations) Other label info: Kills HIV-1 Registered by US EPA - no harm to humans Registered by USDA for use in meat and poultry plants or = for food utensils by US food and drug administration. Fulfills sanitizing criteria of US Public Health Service = in water up to 500 ppm hardness calculated as Ca03. Jim Daley jgdaley=40gw.dec.state.ny.us Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 3 Nov 97 09:48 PST From: cburns at egusd.k12.ca.us (Charles Burns) Subject: Traquair House Ale - Grain Bill Question My next project - the perfect Strong Scotch Ale and Traquair House Ale is my target. Reading in Ray Daniels' _Designing Great Beers_ (page 290), he lists the grain bill as Pale Ale malt and Black malt only. Reading Michael Jackson's Beer Companion (page 110), he lists Pale Ale malt and Roasted Barley only. Does anyone have a third reference that could clear this up? Is it Black or is it Roasted Barley? And if you haven't tried this stuff - get some! Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 3 Nov 1997 12:50:45 -0800 From: George_De_Piro at berlex.com (George De Piro) Subject: Re: Wort stability test and lag times Hi all, Charles Hudak points out that a wort stability test is a good idea (George Fix suggests it in at least one of his books, too). Charles assumes that many of us don't do it, which makes him a target of that old phrase, "When you assume, you make an..." I do wort stability tests fairly regularly (sometimes I just forget). I'm sure others out there do, also. While a properly performed wort stability test can show you that your beer won't suffer from microbial damage during the lag, there are two factors Charles has forgotten: 1. A long lag can lead to off flavors produced by the yeast themselves. In my experience, slight esteriness can form in beers with a 12 hour lag. This is really most noticeable in clean styles like Alts and most lagers. 2. There could be contaminants in the pitching yeast. A wort stability test won't tell you diddley about them, yet they can pose a real threat to the beer. It is a *great* idea to use as many simple QC tools as we can, but don't let them lull you into a false sense of security. The shorter the lag time, the better it will be for your beer. Have fun! George De Piro (Nyack, NY) Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 3 Nov 1997 13:04:11 -0500 From: "David R. Burley" <Dave_Burley at compuserve.com> Subject: full boil, Brewsters: D Carter says: > I would like to try my hand at all grain brewing after many = >extract/specialty grain batches. The only problem I forsee (other than = = >learning the process) is with full volume boils. I currently use an = >enamel on steel pot on an electric stove. It does straddle two burners = = >for a nice boil, but does'nt hold five+ gallons. >I know there must be plenty of you brewing in your basement, >what type of burner('s) are you using? I brew at my bar ( in my walk-out basement - I guess that counts?) which has a two burner electric stove as part of the sink/fridge/stove unit. I= use two cheap stainless steel 4 gallon kettles which JUST fit and I get a= good boil in both kettles from about 7 gallons to 5.5 gallons in a hour. - ------------------------ Keep on brewin' Dave Burley Kinnelon, NJ 07405 103164.3202 at compuserve.com Dave_Burley at compuserve.com = Voice e-mail OK = Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 3 Nov 1997 13:21:42 -0600 (CST) From: Samuel Mize <smize at prime.imagin.net> Subject: Wort stability test; taking offense at taking offense Greetings to all, and especially to: > HOMEBREW Digest #2547 Mon 03 November 1997 > From: Chasman <cwhudak at gemini.adnc.com> > Subject: Wort Stability Tests > > In an effort to throw another log on the fire that is this undying thread > on pitching rates.... > > What you really need to be concerned with is your wort stability. > ... > Before everyone sounds off about how bad 12 or even 24 hour lag times are, > let me ask ALL of you: Have you ever done a wort stability test? > > Charles Hudak > cwhudak at adnc.com Can you give us a pointer to any references about wort stability testing - -- what it is, how to do it, and what it really tells me? I haven't seen this mentioned in the homebrewing literature, but then I haven't read ALL of it -- or is this a commercial brewing thing? Or something that you have developed? Thanks for any info. - - - - - - UNRELATED - - - - - - A couple of people have recently said, in effect, "that's not what I said, so you should not have taken offense." In general, the offensive meaning is a fair reading of the message, and the inoffensive, intended meaning is another. Most grudge-match flame wars I've seen reduce to: "You said X," "No I didn't," "Yes you did," "No I didn't"....... This is not a perfect medium. We cannot always say ONLY what we mean. The BLAME for such problems rests on the medium. The RESPONSIBILITY for fixing them rests on BOTH people. Here are the steps I follow. I wish I could say I follow them always; I do try. 1) Re-read messages before sending, looking for statements that could be taken as backhanded put-downs. 2) If another has given insult, but there is any doubt, check with the sender. Email or post "when you said X, did you mean Y?" (This is where I most often fail -- something appears obviously, crudely inflammatory, but that interpretation surprises the sender.) 3) If someone takes offense at my words, I ASSUME THEY ARE RIGHT TO DO SO. If I did not intend that meaning, the statement was not clear enough. This is hard to internalize and live by, but critical. If someone feels you have insulted them, you will not calm them down by telling them they're also too stupid to read English. When someone takes offense, I look back at the message and try hard to see how they got that unintended meaning. I bear in mind that words have different connotations to different people. Then I: 1) state that I was unclear, 2) apologize for the inclarity and unintended offense, and 3) restate what I really meant, more carefully, avoiding any words that seemed to "set off" the person (assuming they have a connotation on that word that I don't understand). I take onto myself the "blame" for the confusion, but not for the offensive meaning; this generally opens the person's mind to the idea that I honestly didn't mean it that way. 5) If someone is "playing for points" -- trying to win an argument about a message, rather than achieve communication on substantive issues -- LET THEM WIN. Who cares? Best, Sam Mize - -- Samuel Mize -- smize at imagin.net -- Team Ada Return to table of contents
[Prev HBD] [Index] [Next HBD] [Back]
HTML-ized on 11/04/97, by HBD2HTML version 1.2 by K.F.L.
webmaster at hbd.org, KFL, 10/9/96