---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com


Contents:
  Wort Chilling, End of Test (Jack Schmidling)
  Re: Aluminum & Alzheimers (Jeff Renner)
  more about yeast starters (LBarrowman)
  SAVING GRAINS ("WG05 Janssen Skylard L. A01")
  Burners\; Solar Flow\; disco inferno... -Reply (jjb)
  help me mr wizard - yeast, 6-row, koelsch (Lou Heavner)
  RE: Dry hopping problems (Don H Van Valkenburg)
  MJ's New Book? ("Johns, Jamey")
  Bottom Line on Copper Oxides and Verdigris (John Palmer)
  Transporting Beer ("WILLITS MICHAEL EXC CP US")
  RE:Wit recipe (Kit Anderson)
  What Happened?? ("Kelly C. Heflin")
  Re: Teflon Stirrer (Scott Murman)
  Grain Mill Torque Requirements ("Raymond C. Steinhart")
  "Neo-Classical Styles" category ("David Johnson")
  Oxygen results... ("Lee B.")
  Steve Alexander's comments (Mark D Weaver)
  What Dave Burley isn't telling you. (Jason Henning)
  Xylene, rootbeer, IQ (Chasman)
  Re: Root Beer in a Corny/Slow Fermentation in Cyser (Sandra L Cockerham)
  Maple Porter Update (i.brew2)
  All-Grain - Try it! You might like it! (macher)
  Holiday beer with Maple? (dcarter)
  FWH!?! ("Tkach, Christopher")
  Cider, ("David R. Burley")
  Thesis defense near --- ("Jeffrey M. Kenton")
  Belgian Yeasts.. (Mark D Weaver)
  Root beer (Mark D Weaver)
  YCKC A53 Burton yeast (Jacques Bourdouxhe)
  Starters reponse (mcveyp)
  Cold break settle time and temp?? (Dan Morley)
  Questions (gfurrow)


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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Tue, 11 Nov 1997 08:33:47 -0800
From: Jack Schmidling <arf at mc.net>
Subject: Wort Chilling, End of Test

As promised in Spring, I herewith report on a season of brewing
the World's Greatest Beer without resorting to the "mandatory"
wort chiller.

Starting in Marzen and ending with Oktoberfest, I brewed ten, 
ten gallon batches of Schmidling Brau.  I experimented with
two variations on my standard procedure which if they caused
no problems, would greatly simplify my brewing process.

Change No. 1 was the way I processed yeast.  In the past,
I would save a gallon of wort from each batch to start the
next with a new slant of yeast.  This season I started each
batch with about a gallon of sludge saved from the previous
batch.

Change No.2 was eliminating the forced chilling of wort.  I
simply put the lid on the kettle shortly after end of boil
and transfered to the fermenter in the morning.

All my beers (including one made in March) received the usual
rave reviews at our Third Annual Octoberfest/Star Party.
Furthermore, at no time did I or my wife notice anything
unusual about any of our beers over the summer.

I guess the yeast business should come as no surprise but
I think it is time to put wort chilling into proper
prospective, i.e., just something else to stimulate
endless discussions and entrepreneurial juices not to
mention delighting the nice folks who sell advertising.

js

- -- 
Visit our WEB pages: 
                        Beer Stuff.........http://ays.net/jsp
                        Astronomy.......http://user.mc.net/arf
             ASTROPHOTO OF THE WEEK..... New Every Monday


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Date: Tue, 11 Nov 1997 10:18:40 -0500
From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu>
Subject: Re: Aluminum & Alzheimers

In Homebrew Digest #2554 (November 11, 1997), Chasman
<cwhudak at gemini.adnc.com> writes:

>Though it's not proven, Aluminum *has* been implicated in Alzheimers.

This topic comes up every 6 months or so.  Please consult the archives for
the whole discussion, but neuroscience has virtually exonerated aluminum
after many studies that followed up the original one implicating it (it's
hard to prove a negative).  The subject has taken on proportions of urban
myth.  Furthermore*, a BT article several years ago showed that wort boiled
in aluminum had the same al content as that boiled in ss, both from the
water used, not the vessel.  Aluminum also does not give off flavors.  I
use three 10 gallon stock pots with taps in my RIMS, and have taken ribbons
including BOS with Classic American Pilsners (and others) brewed in this
system.  This is a style with no place for off flavors to hide.  The main
problem with al is that you can't use caustic cleaners, but non-caustic
ones work fine.

Now, if I can just remember where I left that RIMS.  Must be the botulism
that makes me so forgetful.

Jeff

*Dave Draper - notice I didn't write "besides"

 -=-=-=-=-
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan c/o nerenner at umich.edu
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943. 



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Date: Tue, 11 Nov 1997 10:26:02 -0500 (EST)
From: LBarrowman at aol.com
Subject: more about yeast starters

I am curious to hear what will be batted around about the best method (for
homebrewers) to get large, healthy yeast starters. Not many books bridge the
gap between the guys with their own lab, centrifuge, autoclave, digital
scale, etc. and those who lock themselves in the kitchen for a half-hour to
make do with the measuring cups.

According to what I learned at pointy-head school, yeast multiply better with
a minimum of extra food. With extra food they go into ethanol/CO2 production.

I have had great success (lag time ~3 or 4 hours) by pitching my starters
into a gallon jug with 1/2 pint wort and then feeding them 1 pint per day
until the day before brew day when they get 1 pint every 12 hours. (starter
substrate: 1# DME per 2 gallons) I usually end up with ~3 quarts final
starter volume. I hate dumping off the liquid before I pitch because there
are so many yeast cells suspended in it. I think the lazy (or dead) ones are
lying on the bottom.

I am thinking about changing my method slightly to keep the starter volume
down. Using my previous method (dilute wort), I would get the starter volume
to ~1 quart and then begin adding small amounts (1/4 pint) of higher gravity
wort. (substrate: 1# DME per 1/2 gallon) I think my yeast food is too dilute.
By changing the gravity of wort fed, water is the only thing eliminated,
resulting in the same amount of substrate (at the same rate) to the yeast
cells.

A comment about my present method.... I don't often see my starters evolve
any CO2. The airlocks seldom bubble and there is no foam on the top, only
small, floating clusters of bubbles. They are usually very cloudy with an
obvious cake of yeast on the bottom.

Laura 
Charlotte  NC

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Date: Tue, 11 Nov 1997 05:56:30 -0800
From: "WG05 Janssen Skylard L. A01" <SJanssen at vinson.navy.mil>
Subject: SAVING GRAINS

I'm an extract brewer and use specialty grains often.  I now have a good
supply of extra grains i.e. Roasted, Chocolate, Patent, Cara
Vienna,Special B.
I store them in individual ziploc bags and then into one large ziploc
kept at room temp. in the closet. Is there a better way to store them?
How long will they safely keep before I have to trash them?

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Date: Tue, 11 Nov 1997 11:31:33 -0500
From: jjb at vnf.com
Subject: Burners\; Solar Flow\; disco inferno... -Reply

thanks for the info.  in fact, i found the new solarflow site today at:
 
http://www.solarflo.com

if you haven't seen it, you may want to check it out.

>>> "jellings at me.umn.edu" 11/10/97 07:02pm >>>

Hi John,

I believe Solar Flow is in Ohio.  I've got
one of their catalogs around here somewhere.

I was considering a 2 bbl system, so was looking for
a 120-200k BTU burner...  They sell "Impinged Jet"
industrial burners for about $200.  You can get a low tech
impinged jet burner from some Asian markets for about
$60...  I-J burners are very efficient, a bit noisy.
None of the above will support a kettle.  Both are
set up for Nat. Gas at a hefty flow rate....


I found a variety of more convential burner sources
on the internet....   Cajun cookers and the like...

Have considered getting a 0-50 psi LP regulator,
a 100 pound LP tank, and one of those $60 wok 
burners, and seeing what I could do....   

Cheers,
Jim



http://www.webcounty.com/backyardchef/backprod.htm

Has 170k BTU cookers for $36-44 + $6 frt.   (price is vague).

20 psi regulator w/ hose for $25 + $4,
50 psi adjustable regulator w/ guage (no hose) for $23
burners for less than $20


http://www.edge-water.com/

cookers for $60.
30 psi regulator for 
#7850 - 0-30 psi adjustable high pres  $19
#7000 - 20 psi preset high pressure regulator/brass control valve/P.O.L.
     adapter. High pressure regulator surpasses the standard of UL144 
$19
        no hose

#5HPR - UL-Approved high pressure hose/regulator/valve assembly -  
$29
20 psi.  4 ft hose.  3/8" thread.

100 quart kettle w/ lid, basket for $220.


http://www.masterbuilt.com/cooker2.html

   MBS12 Black cooker stand
12" Solid Steel Stand with Powder Coat Finish, Burner, Hose & Regulator
$39.95

MAEB Cooker Ring Extension Brackets 3 Extension brackets that
         mount to security ring (not pictured)                  $ 9.95

120 PBL  120 qrt Aluminum Pot, Basket, Lid    $220



http://www.w3productions.com/campchef/single.htm

 
Single Burner

Model SB-30L Low Pressure 30,000 BTU/HR max output

Model SB-125L High Pressure 100,000+ BTU/HR max output



- ------------------------------  http://www.menet.umn.edu/~jellings/  *
*  James Lee (Jim) Ellingson                    jellings at me.umn.edu  *
*  University of Minnesota, 125 Mech. Engr.        tel 612/645-0753  *
*  111 Church St.SE, Minneapolis, MN 55455         fax 612/624-1398  *




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Date: Tue, 11 Nov 1997 11:03:29 -0600
From: lheavner at tcmail.frco.com (Lou Heavner)
Subject: help me mr wizard - yeast, 6-row, koelsch

     Dear Collective,
     
     I plan to brew an English nut brown ale and follow with an English 
     ESB.  I normally use Wyeast 1098 on my brown and 1968 on my ESB.  I'm 
     thinking of using the brown as my starter for my ESB.  What would you 
     recommend as the yeast of choice.  I'm open to others as well, maybe 
     #1318.  All suggestions welcome.  Anything special need to be done.  I 
     was simply planning to rack off and bottle the brown while 
     mashing/boiling the ESB.  After cooling, just dumping the chilled ESB 
     wort right into the fermenter on top of the old yeast/trub/residual.
     
     A while back, I was interested in making some batches with 6-row but 
     ended up using 2-row since my local suppliers don't carry 6-row.  I 
     could buy a whole bag, but am interested in buying 8 - 10 lbs at a 
     time.  Any 6-row suppliers anywhere near Austin, TX?  I'd be 
     interested in cost including shipping for small quantities of 
     uncrushed domestic 6-row pale/lager malt.
     
     A while back I asked about lagering a koelsch style beer using Wyeast 
     2565, but never got any response.  I am wondering how cold for how 
     long can I go without having to add yeast for bottle conditioning.  If 
     it's not possible, what would be the best bet for bottle conditioning? 
     Save and repitch some yeast from the primary?  Use another strain?
     
     Regards,
     
     Lou
     <lheavnerATfrmailDOTfrcoDOTcom>

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Date: Tue, 11 Nov 1997 08:47:46 -0800
From: steinfiller at juno.com (Don H Van Valkenburg)
Subject: RE: Dry hopping problems

Lenny Garfinkel Writes:

>I have had some problems dry hopping which I wonder if others have
>encountered.

>... one batch had a bad odor and the top
>of the hops layer has a white scum on it. 

> I tossed a whole days work
>(full mash) down the toilet.  I don't think I'll dry hop again.

Sorry to hear this.  I doubt it was the hops.

I dry hop frequently and have yet had a batch that became contaminated
from the hops.  

I once did a dry hopping test in the bottle --dropping a pellet in each
bottle.  I used about 25 different hops, just to compare the difference
of each hop.   And,  yes they all did end up on the bottom.  Out of 25 I
did not have a single bottle that was contaminated.   

Try  This sometime with only a few bottles -- a relatively risk free way
of dry hopping without risking the whole batch.  

Don Van Valkenburg


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Date: Tue, 11 Nov 1997 11:09:00 -0800
From: "Johns, Jamey" <jamey.johns at lamrc.com>
Subject: MJ's New Book?


Hey folks,

Has anyone seen, bought, or read Micheal Jackson's new book
"Great American Beers" I believe it is called? I haven't seen it
anywhere. Is it not published yet? Seems like a good present
for under the tree............

Jamey  Johns
San Ramon, CA

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Date: Tue, 11 Nov 1997 11:12:52 -0800
From: John Palmer <jjpalmer at gte.net>
Subject: Bottom Line on Copper Oxides and Verdigris

I thought this subject had been well addressed but after an appeal for a
bottom line, I thought I would give one, seeing how I was the one that
advocated using vinegar to clean copper in the first place.

The bottom line is, clean your copper fittings with vinegar (and a
Scotchbrite* scrubby) until the copper is shiny, then rinse with water.
Then there will be minimal copper dissolved into the wort or beer.  Any
discoloration, whether its black, brown, or blue-green, is a copper
compound that will dissolve into the weakly acidic wort and beer.  Pure
copper is not attacked by weak acids like beer wort and vinegar.

John Palmer
Metallurgist
* Scotchbrite is a registered trademark of 3M (whom I now work for).


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Date: 11 Nov 1997 12:42:51 -0500
From: "WILLITS MICHAEL EXC CP US" <michael.willits at usre.mhs.ciba.com>
Subject: Transporting Beer

Hi,

 My brother has recently asked me to brew beer for his wedding.  Of course I 
was honored to be asked, but there are a few problems I have to work out first.
  The main problem is that the wedding is in New York and I'm in North Carolina.
  Does anyone know if there are legal problems with transporting two Corny kegs 
in the back seat of a car?  Also, I don't want to take my CO2 tank if I don't 
have to.  Does anyone have any suggestions for an alternate dispensing method?
  The beer should be gone in a day, so I don't mind if it's not dispensed with 
CO2.  Thanks in advance for any advice.

Michael Willits
Raleigh, North Carolina
michael.willits at cp.novartis.com


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Date: Tue, 11 Nov 1997 15:58:31 -0800
From: Kit Anderson <kitridge at bigfoot.com>
Subject: RE:Wit recipe

dan johnson asked for a wit recipe.

Kit's Wit
 - ---------
5 gallons

5 lbs Belgian pils malt
4.5 lbs flaked wheat
1 oz Szaaz at 60 min
 .75 oz Szaaz at 20 min
1/2 tsp ground coriander in secondary
1/2 Tbl dried orange peel in secondary
500 cc starter of Brewtek Belgian Wheat yeast

RIMS system
Rest 122F 20 minutes
Rest 131F 20 minutes
Rest 144F 20 minutes
Rest 154F 50 minutes
Mash out 168F
Sparge water adjusted to 5.4 pH with 88% lactic acid
Aerated 1 hour after pitching
Ferment 7 days at 68F. Kegged and pressurized.
Adjust final pH to taste with 88% lactic acid

OG 1048
FG 1009
- -- 
Kit Anderson				ICQ# 2242257
Bath, Maine				<kitridge at bigfoot.com>
		
"I had the right rib, but it musta been the wrong sauce" - Dr. John



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Date: Tue, 11 Nov 1997 21:15:51 -0500
From: "Kelly C. Heflin" <kheflin at monmouth.com>
Subject: What Happened??

Made me a scottish Ale recently... Been in the keg for 
about a month now... Still so cloudy it hurts to drink it...
I dont mean a little haze,  it's real cloudy... I've never had
this problem.. The one thing I noticed when I made it was
the grain had been over crushed. Lots of powder. Had 
problems with clogging in the rims system.. but we
managed anyway. 

I figured this problem would go away after a few pours off
the keg.. , But no...It's not a bad beer, but I'm annoyed....
I never use anything for clearing my beer and never have 
a problem..
Any Ideas...

Kelly

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Date: Tue, 11 Nov 1997 18:51:17 -0800
From: Scott Murman <smurman at best.com>
Subject: Re: Teflon Stirrer


On Mon, 10 Nov 1997 08:42:53 -0500  "David R. Burley" wrote:

> Use a magnet (or piece of steel), put it inside a piece of
> polyethylene or polypropylene tubing about twice as long as the
> magnet (teflon should als o work) and heat the tubing by holding
> each it close ( but don't burn this relative of paraffin wax) to a
> candle flame or a propane torch between th e end of the tube and the
> magnet while rotating it. May take a minute or so When it is
> somewhat transparent and soft, seal it off at the ends by pulling on
> the tubing until it separates and then warm the ends to melting to
> complete the sealing.

Or...  you could go to the nearest lab supply house and have your
choice of about a dozen different pretty teflon-coated stirrers for
about $3.  Just posing an alternative;)

SM

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Date: Tue, 11 Nov 1997 21:21:27 -0600
From: "Raymond C. Steinhart" <rnr at popmail.mcs.net>
Subject: Grain Mill Torque Requirements

I have a valley mill and would like to motorize it.  I want to use a
small gear reduction motor for power.  My question is, has anyone
determined the torque requirements of a typical homebrew grain mill?
Anyone can mount a 1/4hp motor and sheave it down, by I want to keep my
system compact and have found some small but powerful motors in
Grainger. Any help would be appreciated.

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Date: Tue, 11 Nov 1997 21:17:34 -0600
From: "David Johnson" <dmjalj at inwave.com>
Subject: "Neo-Classical Styles" category

Since an earlier poster said he was contemplating some additional categories
for a competition, I've been thinking about the discussion that ensued. I
was wondering about a category that encompases styles that might be
historical, not frequently brewed, or might be new styles that are
candidates as future categories. This could act as a sort of incubator for
"new" and "rediscovered" styles like Pre-Prohibition Pilsner. Other examples
could include American Amber Ale, 18th or 19th Century Porter,  Ballentyne
IPA, 19th Century Old Ale, Original Baltic Porter, steinbier, sahti, etc.
Right now, if I would want to make a 18th century porter (and get impartial
feedback on it), I would have to enter it as a brown porter (and get docked
because it is too hoppy, too sour, has brettanomyces character, and might
have a slight oaky taste). Alternatively, I could enter it as an specialty
or experimental beer but then would the comments from the judge really be
able to speak to what I was getting at and help me brew a more historically
accurate beer.  I would think that this category would fit in with the
specialty beer category and would be intellectually stimulating to the
judges as well. A question could be raised about how a judge could be
prepared to judge this category (it would be challenging). They could be
notified about entrant styles in advance or the brewer could be asked to
provide reference material.
    Comments?
        Dave


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Date: Tue, 11 Nov 1997 20:05:58 -0800
From: "Lee B." <leeb at iea.com>
Subject: Oxygen results...

Most of the replies I received to my previous post about 30 seconds of
O2 being enough to get fermentation off to a kick start (didn't seem
like enough to me) said that yes, O2 really makes a difference and a
couple of 30 second shots should be adequate for a 5 gallon batch. Some
ran the O2 for the entire kettle/fermenter racking time, however.

I used the Gulfstream unit and gave the yeast starter 30 seconds of O2
on each of two step-ups from the Wyeast 1056 packet. This produced a
nice cake of yeast in a 1.5 qt. starter. I also shook the flask after
aerating. So far, so good.

I brewed up a 5 gallon batch (1.047 og) and hit it with 45 seconds of
O2. Then after 20 minutes blasted another 45 seconds.

Bottom line, my fermentation took 24 HOURS to get going! That's much
longer than using my old aquarium pump and stone (from Brewers
Resource).

A couple things come to mind...

1. The Gulfstream stone is extremely dense (0.5 micron) and very small
(.25" x 1"). The stone included with the Gulfstream O2 kit is NOT the
Gulfstream "Carbonation stone", which is much bigger. Even turned up
full blast the cylinder didn't really output enough to create alot of
foam (I opened the regulator 2.5 turns as per the instructions). Didn't
Meribeth Raines say in an old HBD that 2.0 micron aeration stones are
the ideal porosity for combining gas with liquid? Why does Gulfstream
use a 0.5 micron stone then? The instructions say if you TOUCH the stone
that the oils from your hand can clog it up... Yeah, that's
convenient....

2. After aerating my wort, I poured in my 1.5 quarts of starter. But I
did NOT STIR the mixture. Could that be the cause of my long lag time? I
have never stirred in the past, but my old aquarium pump system created
alot of circulation. Using the O2 did not create any stirring action.

3. Okay, next time.. more O2, of course. No problem... well except that
these cylinders may last for only a few batches... which starts me
thinking:

4. Charles H. mentioned "medical O2". Anyone know the availability
restrictions or cost? What about the cost / availability of WELDING
supply oxygen? Can one get a cylinder of O2 at a welding supply for a
decent price? This could be much cheaper than medical O2.

Cheers,

Lee B.
leeb at iea.com



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Date: Tue, 11 Nov 1997 23:36:10 -0800
From: headbrewer at juno.com (Mark D Weaver)
Subject: Steve Alexander's comments

In addition to Steve's posting,

Please note that high pitching rates can result in higher diacetyl
production and higher residual diacetyl in your beer. Now by higher, I
mean excessive overpitching. In the initial stages of fermentation, the
yeast produces quite a bit of diacetyl which, luckily, the yeast takes
back up again during / after fermentation, as most of may know. Amazings
things yeast... So, if you have a stuck fermentation, try adding yeast
ghosts or yeast nutrients. Additional yeast can be good, but not too
much!

The reason I say this is because in my earlier days, when I was only a
lowly homebrewer (only kidding!), I had a wheat beer that would not
ferment, I later surmised that the temp was too cold, but I pitched in
three succesive packs of WYeast bavarian wheat yeast, three days apart.
This left me me with the a most disagreeable and disgusting tasting wheat
beer. Now-a-days, I know better, after working for a brewery and the MBAA
course.

Cheers all, and careful (albeit happy) brewing!

Mark

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Date: Wed, 12 Nov 1997 06:12:30 GMT
From: huskers at olywa.net (Jason Henning)
Subject: What Dave Burley isn't telling you.

Hello Friends-

Anyone who has been reading HBD for a while has heard Dave Burley mention
Clinitest tablets. They're a diabetic test. They're use to determine the
percentage of sugar in a solution (urine). Well, I tracked down the a
bottle of these tablets. They work great. They can be used two ways, to
test negative to 5% or negative to 2%. The narrow range is best for
homebrewers. It only requires 5 drops of beer. I dip my racking cane in =
the
carboy and hold it the closed with my thumb to draw a sample. =
Considerably
less beer than a hydrometer tube.

What Dave isn't telling is the item number! This would make anyone's =
search
much easier. They are getting hard to find since the new digit hand-held
instruments are becoming cheap and available.=20

They are produced by Bayer Corp and packaged four different ways. =
Clinitest
set (i'm guessing that it includes a dropper and a test tube and some =
tabs)
#2128, bottle of 36 tabs is #2127, a bottle of 100 tabs #2126, and 100 =
tabs
sealed in foil is #2159. I bought the 100 tab bottle and use a shot glass
for a test tube and a syringe for a dropper. My 100 tabs were ~$20. =
That's
$4 more than my narrow range hydrometer and the way I treat hydrometers,
will last longer!

Cheers,
Jason Henning <huskers olywa net>
Bid Red Alchemy and Brewing
Olympia, Washington - "It's the water"


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Date: Wed, 12 Nov 1997 01:29:48 -0800
From: Chasman <cwhudak at gemini.adnc.com>
Subject: Xylene, rootbeer, IQ

Michael asks:

>Question: Are Xylene and Petroleum Distillates a bad idea around food
>products?

Short answer, Yes. Xylene is a generic term for a dimethyl benzene molecule
which can take three forms, ortho-xylene, meta-xylene and para-xylene with
methyl groups in the (1,2), (1,3), and (1,4) postions  on the benzene ring
respectively (crappy ascii illustration to follow)(this is an aromatic ring
but crappy ascii makes it look like a cyclohexane molecule, sorry)

      6__1
     5/  \2
     4\__/3


While not deadly (LD50 of m-xylene 7.71mL/Kg in rats) you wouldn't want to
baste your tri-tip with it. It is a common component of gasoline
(especially higher octane blends) and is a common solvent (like
toluene--methyl benzene) found in lots of glues and epoxies. Petroleum
distillates is a generic term for just that--unspecified distillates of
crude oil. Gasoline, diesel and jet fuel are all essentially "petroleum
distillates" as they are produced by the refining or column "distillation"
of crude oil.

I don't think that you want any of this stuff in your beer. The upside is
that with a little detergent, the stuff will eventually go away (lack of
oil slicks in your brewing liquor is an indication that it is gone ;p)

Ironically, WD-40 holds a contest to reward the most innovative uses of
their product. One gent claims to use it as a "spray-on baste" for
barbequed chicken and steak. Primary ingredient in WD-40? You guessed it,
petroleum distillates. I don't know about you  but this stuff isn't making
it into *my* recipe book.

"GP" asks about rootbeer and brewing equipment:

>Now the question,  I've been told that the root beer will taint my keg and
>dispensing equipment and you can't or will have a hard time cleaning it all
>out for that next batch of beer.  Anyone have any experience with this?  I
>don't want to waste a set of gear dedicated to just soda. (I like the kids,
>but not that much)  Can I clean it?  ..with what?  ..and how?
>

Sorry, but you will forever ruin any thing that you let near your precious
rootbeer. Anything plastic (lines, faucets, seals ) will smell and taste
like rootbeer (mostly wintergreen oil--methyl salicylate) forever. SS
should be easier to clean but I've heard rumors that even the SS retains
the smell and ability to transfer flavor and that tanks and kegs dedicated
to rootbeer production can never be used for beer again. Bummer, huh? I'd
stick to 2L bottles unless you have money (i.e. brewing equipment) to spare.

BTW NB=2 IQ=25%  Question: Is this a logarithmic scale? How can you have a
IQ of 10% after one beer (pint?) I know that I get pretty loopy after 4-5
pints which would equal an IQ/NB of 25%. In my case, the NB were consume
over SH (several hours) thus limiting their impact on the effective IQ
since IQ is mitigated by NHBB (number of hours between beers)


Tongue getting cramps from position in cheek....


C--



Charles Hudak
cwhudak at adnc.com
ICQ# 4253902
"If God had intended for us to drink beer, he would have given us stomachs."
- --David Daye



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Date: Wed, 12 Nov 1997 07:21:18 -0500
From: Sandra L Cockerham <COCKERHAM_SANDRA_L at LILLY.COM>
Subject: Re: Root Beer in a Corny/Slow Fermentation in Cyser


Hi all,

As to the corny problem, root beer will taint all the rubber in your corny,
but not the corny itself.
In fact many of us got cornies that had once held root beer (hence the
directive to change all
the rubber right off the bat.)  Five gallon cornies can be obtained without
alot of cash outlay.
Dedicating one to the kiddies may save money in the long run, as buying new
rubber parts to do all of the switching back and forth from beer to root beer,
will quickly pay for a five gallon corny.   Of course, YMMV.    :-)

As to the slow ferment on the cyser, any chance your apple cider had some
preservatives?
Homebrewers have had problems with cider from orchards that say they haven't
added in
anything like potassium metabisulfite, but they misinformed the consumer.
Hopefully your
yeast is just slow.  We currently have a cyser happily fermenting away.  A
quart starter of
YeastLab "Sweet Mead" yeast was used.   Luckily, we got our cider from 'Great
Fermentations
of Indiana'.  It was a special pressing of a mix of apples best suited for
making ciders and was
guaranteed to be free of preservatives.

Happy Brewing to all!
Sandy C.



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Date: Wed, 12 Nov 1997 09:09:50 -0500
From: i.brew2 at juno.com
Subject: Maple Porter Update

Howdy Group,

Last night I bottled my maple porter.  This had been brewed from an
extract kit I purchased from Williams Brewing.  I had added one quart of
maple syrup to the five gallon batch.  The OG was 1.060.  I let it go 15
days in the fermentor til it had fallen clear.  The final gravity was a
whopping 1.030!!!  I didn't taste this until I had it bottled.  It was
awfuly sweet, but I had added the priming sugar already at that point.  I
used the supplied Wyeast packet and made a starter for this.  Lag time
was only 6 hours and fermentation was vigorous.  I had aerated the wort
by first pouring the cooled wort into a setteling bucket through a funnel
and screen, then after an hour I dropped the wort into the fermentor
using one of those little flare fittings on the hose that I got from
Fermentap.  The packet of yeast supplied by Williams said it was an "alt"
yeast.
Looking backwards I guess If I had tasted this before I bottled it, I
could have transfered to another fermentor and tried a packet of dried
ale yeast to see if I could ferment more of the residual sugar out.  This
is the highest OG I have ever had in a brew and if I needed to do
something more please drop me a line and explain anything obvious that I
missed.  I'm thinking that perhaps I needed more DO or a yeast strain
that attenuates higher????    By the way, I think I can detect the maple
flavor, but that might just be because the whole brew reminds me of
pancake syrup;-)

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Date: Wed, 12 Nov 1997 09:20:34 -0500 (EST)
From: macher at telerama.com
Subject: All-Grain - Try it! You might like it!

Hi all,

Well it happened. My first all-grain batch last Sunday, after almost a
year of extract batches!!

Kettle mashed, with copper manifold in enameled pot, batch sparged, even
checked ph and for conversion with Idophor (only thing I had available)...

Now an observation for those who have yet to try all grain...Mashing is
the best part of the process! IT WAS FUN!

My only regret is that I did a single infusion mash, and put the kettle in
the oven for an hour. I should have stood over it and looked in every five
minutes to see the changes. I might do that next time...just for the
learning experience.

To all you all-grain brewers...sorry I let the cat out of the bag...you
hardly ever emphasize that most of the fun comes before the hops are
added!

The best part was recirculating and seeing the wort run clear. I think I
drained the kettle too fast, but that is part of the learning process...

Start to finish took a bit over 5 hours...extract usually takes me three
hours...

Just a data point for extract brewers that might be considering
all-grain...try it, you might like it! 

Bill

Bill Macher   macher at telerama.lm.com   Pittsburgh, Pa   USA




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Date: 12 Nov 97 09:30:00 EST
From: dcarter at me2.splp.com
Subject: Holiday beer with Maple?


 Hello HBD,
 I've been thinking of making a Christmas/Holiday Ale and I've noticed   
alot of the recipes use honey or brown sugar/molasses. I happen to have a   
pint of pure Maple syrup. I was wondering, has anyone made a holiday beer   
and used maple syrup or do spices and maple syrup not mix well? Will my   
beer taste like french toast? (you know Cinnamon with Maple syrup on top,   
yummy but not what I'm lookin' for)
 I've never made a spiced beer before and while I don't mind   
experimenting, I'd really like this to come out well. My friends and   
family are counting on me, I hate when that happens.

 Thanks, Dave Carter
  dcarter at me2.splp.com
BTW,
I want to thank everyone who responded to my "Burner for Basement   
Brewery" ques.
   

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Date: Wed, 12 Nov 1997 10:25:54 -0500
From: "Tkach, Christopher" <tkach at ctron.com>
Subject: FWH!?!

Hi All-

Just finished transferring a Christmas ale into secondary and
have a question about FWH.  This is the second batch of
the same recipe (which I first brewed 2 weeks prior to
the 2nd batch).  And it was also the first time that I've
FWH'd (both batches were FWH'd).  Below is a table of the
hopping schedule that I used (all hops were pellets, this
is for a 5.5 gal batch);


                   1st Batch            2nd Batch 
                   ---------            ---------
FWH                1oz Cascade          1oz Cascade,
                                        1/2oz Chinook

Bitter (60min)     1oz Chinook          1oz Centennial,
                                        1/2oz Chinook

Flavor (30min)     1oz Chinook,         1oz Chinook
                   1oz Centennial


Now, my question is I've noticed a strong citrus flavor
in both batches similar to a grapefruit flavor, which
I think is a characteristic of Cascade (I could be wrong),
but I've never noticed this flavor before when I've used
Cascade for an Aroma hop (5-10min boil time).  Is this
due to the fact that I left the Cascade in the wort after
the sparge was over and boiled them with the rest of the
batch?  Are you suppose to remove the FWH'd hops?  I'm
not really complaining, I noticed that the grapefruit flavor
had mellowed out when I went to bottle the 1st batch, and
it actually tastes very good, just wasn't expecting it in
the 1st place.

On a similar note, does anyone know where I can find a
good resource for describing flavors that are imparted
by different hops.  All the ones I've seen previously
have descriptions like spicy (but what does that mean,
spicy in what way?).  I'd like to find something that
tells me exactly what sort of spicy flavor is going to
be imparted....I don't know maybe I'm asking too much!! :-)

But I'm trying to move away from using other people's hop
profiles when I formulate a new recipe.

Thanks For The Help,
 - Chris
Newmarket, NH

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Date: Wed, 12 Nov 1997 10:35:19 -0500
From: "David R. Burley" <Dave_Burley at compuserve.com>
Subject: Cider,

Brewsters,

Vicky relates her tales of woe in trying to get a cyser/hard cider/apple
wine to ferment.  Sounds to me like the cider/apple juice had a stabilize=
r
in it to prevent what you want.- Yeast Growth.  Read the label on the
remaining bottle.  Try adding some yeast to a little of this cider/juice
and see what happens.
- ---------------------
Keep on brewin'


Dave Burley
Kinnelon, NJ 07405
103164.3202 at compuserve.com
Dave_Burley at compuserve.com  =

Voice e-mail OK =


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Date: Wed, 12 Nov 1997 09:48:14 -0600
From: "Jeffrey M. Kenton" <jkenton at iastate.edu>
Subject: Thesis defense near ---

Howdy everybody. I have taken a self-imposed hiatus from brewing for
approxiamtely one year to complete my thesis and finish my master of
science degree. This is a joyous event for me, and is a stepping-stone
toward a PhD. Therefore, I am hoping a few of you would help me to decide
which beer style I should brew to "break the fast", along with a few
suggested names ( I already know about the Thesis Defense India Pale Ale,
almost bitter enough to keep you from finishing it). My intention is to
produce two beers, one to drink more immediately, and one to keep around
until I finish my PhD (maybe a BW or Mead). But who knows.

I would also like to thank each and every one of you out there for
providing a forum which is interesting enough to draw my attention away
from my thesis for at least a half-hour each day.

Private email will reduce the queue, and I actually prefer it that way.

Jeff

Jeffrey M. Kenton                    "Don't be afraid to go out on a limb,
N013 Lagomarcino Hall                that's where the fruit is." - Anonymous
(515) 294-9997                       "Information comes, knowledge lingers"
jkenton at iastate.edu                                   - Alfred Lord Tennyson



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Date: Wed, 12 Nov 1997 10:22:44 -0800
From: headbrewer at juno.com (Mark D Weaver)
Subject: Belgian Yeasts..

>>Saul writes:
>>I was given a couple of bottles of Maredsous Abbey Ale (Belgium).  It
is
>>a bottle conditioned ale and I can see the yeast at the bottom of the
>>bottle.  Does anybody know anything about this yeast? Can it be used to
>>produce a Trappist ale (as can Chimay)? 

>Only if you are a Trappist monk... no kidding... "Trappist Ale" is not
>a style, but an indication of who made the beer.

>But seriously, not only should that yeast be usable for Trappist-style
>ales, but since Maredsous is made by the same brewery that makes Duvel
>(notice the similarity in the bottle shape?), it could be one of the two
>yeasts used to make Duvel.  Except for Orval (which is bottled with a
blend
>of five yeasts), I don't know of any other Belgian brewers who use a
>*different* yeast for bottling than they did for fermentation.

>Al.

Al,

Well, I have a rather high placed informant in Belgium (he's Belgian
Royalty) and he informed me that the yeast on the bottom of all those
bottles is not the yeast used to brew the beer with, but another yeast
they add in. Sort of like the yeast on the bottom of New Belgium's
Belgian style beers is actually Fat Tire yeast, not their Belgian
strain....

Regards,
Mark

 (O=00=O) / (o--tii-o)
 (O=00=O) / (D       D)
Mark Weaver - Brewer on the Loose -  :  headbrewer at juno.com  or 
AwfulQuiet at aol.com

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Date: Wed, 12 Nov 1997 10:34:29 -0800
From: headbrewer at juno.com (Mark D Weaver)
Subject: Root beer

Hi,

Well, my only warning about root beer... all of your plastic and or
rubber parts and hoses will be impregnated with the root beer essence..
therefor being transmitted into the next product you put in the keg /
line. The stainless metal keg itself  will be ok, it held syrup once
already didn't it? So, maybe you should have a dedicated root beer keg,
or replace all the gaskets etc. if you are going to fill it with beer at
a later date. This is also true for fruit flavoured beers, it is hard to
remove the flavourings that are associated with those beers too from the
lines and plastic parts.

Regards,
Mark 

 (O=00=O) / (o--tii-o)
 (O=00=O) / (D       D)
Mark Weaver - Brewer on the Loose (ie, looking for employment at another
brewery) -  :  headbrewer at juno.com  or  AwfulQuiet at aol.com


>>>>Date: Mon, 10 Nov 1997 10:22:47 -1000
>>From: "GP Kea" <lifeline at pixi.com>
>>Subject: Re: Root Beer in a Corny

>>A question,

>>I've been brewing for a while and have been doing all of my brews in 5
>>gallon cornies.  I've been hankering to make some root beer (for the
>>neighborhood kids) but I still hate washing bottles and I figure why
fiddle
>>with yeasts, etc. if I don't have to.   What I want to do is mix the
root
>>beer extract, water and sugar in a corny, chill and force carbonate. 
>>Shouldn't be any problem, right?

>>Now the question,  I've been told that the root beer will taint my keg
and
>>dispensing equipment and you can't or will have a hard time cleaning it
all
>>out for that next batch of beer.  Anyone have any experience with this?
 I
>>don't want to waste a set of gear dedicated to just soda. (I like the
kids,
>>but not that much)  Can I clean it?  ..with what?  ..and how?

>>Thanks in advance for your kind assistance.

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Date: Wed, 12 Nov 1997 11:16:18 -0400
From: bourdouj at EOA.UMontreal.CA (Jacques Bourdouxhe)
Subject: YCKC A53 Burton yeast

Hi Braumeisters,
Did some brewer, brewster ever used the yeast strain A53 Burton from the
Yeast Culture Kit Company? Does it give that typical Bass " burned match "
aroma?
Any good or bad experience with it?
E-mail welcome

Thank's

Jacques in Montreal

*************************************************
* Oh beer! O Hodgson, Guinness, Allsop, Bass!   *
* Names that should be on every infant's tongue *
* ( Charles Stuart Calverley )                  *
*************************************************



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Date: Wed, 12 Nov 1997 09:17:21 -0700
From: mcveyp at kingman.com
Subject: Starters reponse

nicholas at Remedy.COM,
        I too use Wyeast liquid packets. I decide I'm going to brew on Wed
so on Sunday or Monday I make the starter.
On Sunday night, I SMACK THE PACK!
On Monday night,
I boil 2 cups of tap water in a saucepan.
I add about 2/3 cup of light Dried Malt Extract & stir to disolve DME.
I cool the mix in the sink in an ice bath. It takes 5 minutes.
I sanitize a 22 oz bottle, funnel, wine cork & airlock.
     Note: the wine cork has a 1/4" hole drilled in the center
I pour the starter wort in the bottle about 2/3 from the bottom.
I cut the top of the shiny yellow foil packet & pitch it in the bottle.
I put the cork in the neck, & affix the airlock.
I place the starter in the dark closet.
The house thermostat is at ~ 78 deg.
I brew on Wed night. And pitch the bottle's contents in the primary.
Comments: I've been known to keep these starters in the closet for up to a
week. No infections. Check you're all process steps for contamination.
Patrick in Arizona
mcveyp at kingman.com
- ------------------


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Date: Wed, 12 Nov 1997 09:30:57 -0700
From: Dan Morley <morleyd at cadvision.com>
Subject: Cold break settle time and temp??

Greetings!

On Monday I made 2 batches of all-grain beer. The first was a triple
decotion German Pils and the second was a step infusion American premium
lager. For these 2 lagers I was trying to do "all the right things"
including large yeast starters at the right temp. and letting the cold break
form and settle and then racking off of it.

I was done both beers by 8:00 pm and I put them in my lagering fridge and
cooled them overnight down to 45 deg. F. At 10:00 am the next morning there
was a large amount of sediment in both carboys. I carefuly racked into clean
carboys and pitched my starters. I then set the fridge at 50 deg. to allow
the beer to warm up a bit and get the ferment going.

Later that day when I checked on them, I saw that a new layer of sediment
had formed in both carboys!! I was quite suprised and somewhat disapointed.
At this point I decided to just let the ferment proceed as is.

I felt that letting it settle overnight in the first place was a waste of
time and energy and that it had the potential to expose my beer to harmful
bacteria.

Questions: Has anyone else experienced this??
           What temperature should I cool to to get maxium cold break?
           How long should it be left at that temp before racking?

Thanks

Dan Morley
Brewing in the Great White North
Calgary, AB, Canada
           


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Date: Wed, 12 Nov 1997 11:43:17 -0500 (EST)
From: gfurrow at cablenet-va.com
Subject: Questions

Hi;

I am new both to HBD and to brewing my own beer.  I have only done four
batches of beer, all were made with extracts.

I have two questions;

        I racked my third batch, a british light ale, to a carboy to allow
the sediment to drop out.  Now there are small white spots in my beer.  They
showed up about 36 hours after I moved it to the carboy and the amount has
stayed approximately the same for 72 hours.  Am I infected?  What should I do?

        I am trying to make one of the beers in the New Joy of Homebrewing.
The wort has 9 lbs of extract and 1 pound of honey in it.  Fermentation did
not start for about 10 hours and then it became a constant stream of bubbles
in my carboy.  But, after about 48 hours, I am now at about 1 or two bubles
a minute.  Is this normal?  

Sorry to ask such dumb questions.  But, you've got to learn somehow.

Thanks
 

gary furrow



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---