HOMEBREW Digest #2563 Fri 21 November 1997

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		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com

  Brews Traveler in Deutchland (Part 1) (John Adams)
  Brews Traveler in Deutchland (Part 2) (John Adams)
  Where are you? (Jeff Renner)
  Tank connections (Tom Clark)
  Parti-gyle, ("David R. Burley")
  Cleaning blowoff hoses (Steve Armbrust)
  Xmas Gifts ("Ellery.Samuels")
  PH test strips (S&R Moed)
  temperature scale (Lou Heavner)
  Re: cost justification (Sheena McGrath)
  Bubble-gum! (Al Korzonas)
  bottling yeasts (Al Korzonas)
  another thought on homebrewing expense ("Curt Speaker")
  Justify your expenses ("Alan McKay")
  Cabbage smell in beer from HSA ("Alan McKay")
  Efficiencies, Sparging & Stout (Rob Kienle)
  Re: Schmidling & wort chilling (brian_dixon)
  Cleaning Blowoff tubes (Grampus)
  Re: Winterfest (brian_dixon)
  Bottle Storage ("Mike Palma")
  fermenter CO2 to carboy (Mark D Weaver)
  RE: Belgian Yeasts (Mark D Weaver)
  Belgian Yeasts (Mark D Weaver)
  re: Pump placement ("C.D. Pritchard")
  WYeast 1338 (Mark D Weaver)
  Re: parti-gyle definition (Sean Mick)
  Lab stuff (Louis Bonham)
  RE:  Homegrown hops (Richard Gardner)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 08:33:45 -0700 (MST) From: John Adams <jadams at pipeline.cnd.hp.com> Subject: Brews Traveler in Deutchland (Part 1) Brews Traveler in Deutchland (Part 1/2) Saturday, 08.11.97 My flight arrived in Stuttgart nearly 5 hours later than planned due to a 3 hour delay in Chicago and missing my connecting flight. I arrived at the Hotel Buehler at dusk and met up with a colleague to go out for dinner. We found a lovely Swabish (Southern German) restaurant just down the road, a very authentic establishment with traditional decor and woodwork. Included with dinner was an aperitif drink (don't ask me what it was) in a small long-necked bottle. Our beer was a Schoenbuch Hefeweizen (the Schoenbuch brewery is directly across the street from my hotel) which went well with our Jager stew of pork, veal, green beans, and spatzle. The Hefeweizen is a nice balanced wheat with not too much banana or clove. It is very drinkable beer and very clean. Then off we went to the Bier Brunnan (the beer fountain) for some more suds. I tried another local beer, this time the Schoenbuch Hefeweizen Dunkel. This was a bit too bitter due to too much hop (see my follow-up on Monday). I capped the evening with the Hannen Alt, a very crisp, clear, and clean ale with a pleasant hop bite, an excellent before-and after-dinner beer. Sunday 09.11.97 Sunday was fun-day! I got up bright and early and was the first to eat breakfast so that I could get right onto the Autobahn. The morning was cold and drizzling and I traveled approximately 75 kilometers before the skies cleared, the road dried off, and I could open up my Audi A4. I drove northeast to Bamburg, home of some of the finest beers in the world. Bamberg's famous beers are the Rauchbier (smoked beer) and during the month of November the local breweries brew a special Rauchbock. I managed to get the car to just under 200 km/h (hint: divide by 1.61) outside of Nuremberg, but then the skies darkened and the rain started so I had to drop down to 160 until I arrived in Bamberg. Regardless of the weather, there is no experience like driving fast on the Autobahn. Hearing the wrapped-up hum of the motor with the radio cranked to the likes of Dire Straits, Midnight Oil, and Jimmy Hendrix was an unbeatable experience! My first stop in Bamburg was Spezial Brau, a brewery dating back 1536. I sat with locals for a lunch of Schweinbraten, Spargel, and Knudel (roast pork, creamed asparagus, and a potato dumpling) and of course the Rauchbock. The Spezial Rauchbock is not quite as smoky as their Rauchbier but very close. Darker in color than Spezial's regular lager, I noted a slight harshness in the flavor. Mein biere sehr guten! Next stop was in the older part of town for the Schlenkerla Rauchbock. Schlenkerla dates back to 1678 and soon after I arrived in walks an English-speaking local I recalled from my visit last year so I joined him for Rauchbock. A very nice bier with a slightly smokier character than found in the Spezial, it also has a slight diacetyl taste. The smoke character lingered in the back of my mouth for a very nice finish. I am then off to the ancient medieval, walled city of Rothenburg. For the first 60 km the skies poured but then the clouds parted and it was my chance to make up the lost time. I shifted into 5th and floored the gas pedal of the Audi for the next 30 km without letting off, turning the purr into a roar as I got the A4 up to 210 km/h, so fast I managed to blow right past Rothenburg! I simply was having too much fun and drove another 15 km down the road before I turned the car around and head backed. That was really quite OK since I now had a clean stretch of highway and the chance to top the car out at 215 km/h! I capped the evening by having a very nice dinner at the Hotel Buehler with my colleagues as we swap stories about the places we visited that day. As customary, Herr Buehler invited each of us to enjoy a shot of Schladerer Schnapps. Who am I to go against tradition! Monday, 10.11.97 In the afternoon, I took the Audi onto the back roads toward Tubligen to visit a 500-year-old Abbey, Babbenhaus, which is another walled city. The roads were tight and winding through the thick forest. With the leaves covering the road, I managed to get the car up to 140 km/h on the fast tight curves as I zipped in and out of the trees. After driving the back roads all afternoon I ate dinner and spent the evening at Swabaner, a local restaurant serving authentic Swabish dishes. I had a very nice dinner starting with the Schoenbuch Hefeweizen Dunkel. The Dunkel is very clean without any of the bitterness I encountered earlier and has a nice clove character. My friends and I from Colorado equally enjoy this 0,5 litre that was going down way too easily through the course of the evening. My next selection was the Schoenbuch Krystalweizen, a nice Krystal with a hint of spice and clove. This is a very drinkable beer without losing it character. During most of the evening we had the entire restaurant to ourselves but eventually the restaurant filled. The three of us had the best Swabian dishes and had many, many beers (did I mention we had many beers). At the end of the evening we each drank a shot of Schnapps and walked (more like staggered) back to the hotel. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 08:33:48 -0700 (MST) From: John Adams <jadams at pipeline.cnd.hp.com> Subject: Brews Traveler in Deutchland (Part 2) Brews Traveler in Deutchland (Part 2/2) Tuesday 11.11.97 Tuesday was, unfortunately, a working day but the catered lunch was a very nice spiced turkey and of course beer, a Warsteiner. In the evening we all got together for a very nice pasta meal with more beer! For the third time in as many days I enjoyed the local brand, this time the Schoenbuch Forstmeister Pils. A very clean, hopped lager that went down easily, time after time, The Forstmeister has a sweet malt aftertaste and a quickly subsiding hop bitterness, almost a Kolsch-like malt. When I arrived back at the hotel, Herr Buehler once again invites us in the bar for an evening shot of Schladerer Schnapps for a goodnight aperitif. Wednesday 12.11.97 The catered lunch was a Swabish spatzle with a pork sauce and a tall glass of Warsteiner. Wednesday evening we visited very nice Italian restaurant and ate pizza (hey I'm closer to the source than I would be in the US). My pepperoni pizza was complemented by a nice Gtuttgarter Hofbrau Hefeweizen, a pleasant, cloudy wheat beer. I have come to the conclusion you cannot find a bad wheat beer in Deutchland, but just in case I continue to look. After Italian it was Irish. We headed over to an Irish pub where for the first time I heard virtually everyone speak English. The patrons were playing cricket and we drink a couple Guinness Stouts, one of my favorite beers. My Guinness has the impression of a clover leaf in the head. It is customary to swirl the last remaining beer as it pours through the creamy, frothy head to create a design. Next I just had to try the local Kult Naturlich Trub (naturally cloudy) because my German friend, Christof Marquadt, is acquainted with the brewery and also because the brewery is on Rottweiler Strasse! The Kult has a nice malt sweetness and hop balance. The finish leaves a nice sweet character and a nice Kolsch-like balance. Thursday 13.11.97 Thursday night was my last night so off we went to downtown Stuttgart. We finish with our meetings early so early I decide to break the land speed record one last time. I drive south from Boebligen in rush hour traffic and manage to persuade the Audi to 180 km/h for one last time. I picked up my friends at the hotel and we race from the Autobahn into downtown Stuttgart and descend into 'the kettle'. Our first stop was dinner at a Mexican restaurant for some Tubliginer beers. Believe it or not the food was respectable, the atmosphere was fantastic, and the beers were even better. I started off with TU 8 Pils and quickly followed it with a TU 8 Hefeweizen. The Pils is malty sweet with a slight bitterness. It has a very nice mouth feel and is quite enjoyable. The Hefeweizen has excellent head retention and also has nice mouth feel. The banana/clove character was evident, the beer cloudy and creamy. My German friend explained the proper etiquette of 'clinking' glasses for differing beer styles (I may be mistaken but I believe there is a German law involved). I in turn explained the different aspects and traits of tasting and judging fine beers (too cool, I'm teaching a Deutchlander how to appreciate beers). Next we headed off to Calwer-Eck-Brau for the Calwer-Eck-Brau Hefeweizen. This beer also has a lovely head and a unique caramelized malt aftertone. Not as much banana as the others I tried but very pleasant. The Calwer-Eck-Brau is a very nice sweet Pilsener that is not particularly bitter. Extremely drinkable with a nice crystal/dextrin malt sweetness and one of the best beers I tried. My last stop of the evening and the trip was Sophie Brauhaus. This pub is very much like some of the finest brewpubs in the United States with a very nice decor, American music piped throughout, and copper mashtuns prominently displayed. The Sophie Brauhaus Hefeweizen has a much darker color, less banana taste, cleaner, and spicier than any other I tried. Their version is similar to an American Wheat that is 40% or less wheat in the grist, but is still a very nice beer. The flight back to the States was just as eventful (and late) as the outgoing flight but I got the chance to try the German version of Becks on the plane. It definitely has more hop and a stronger bitterness than the version imported into the US and is a much better beer. This trip was fantastic (did I mention I actually worked while I was out there) enjoying a total of 17 different beers (not 17 beers, 17 different beers). I ate wonderful food, drove the world's best highways, and even brought back a few souvenirs (some of which weren't beer). Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 10:37:20 -0500 From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu> Subject: Where are you? Brewers Keith signed his post: >Keith Royster - Mooresville/Charlotte, North Carolina Dave signed: >Dave Riedel, Victoria, BC, Canada Bill signed: >Bill Macher macher at telerama.lm.com Pittsburgh, Pa USA And John: >John Wilkinson - Grapevine, Texas - jwilkns at wss.dsccc.com And others as well. Notice a nice pattern here? We know where these brewers are from. It might help us understand their problems or results, it helps foster a sense of community, and you might even discover a fellow brewer down the road that you didn't know. More and more are doing this, but the majority still don't. So, this is it, my semi-annual request that we all include our location at the end of our posts. Jeff -=-=-=-=- Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan c/o nerenner at umich.edu "One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 10:41:28 -0500 From: Tom Clark <rtclark at eurekanet.com> Subject: Tank connections On Sunday, November 16th, Richard Johnson asked about installing a brass Ball Valve: I have seen several items on this subject... We seem to have plenty of biologists and chemists in here but, where are the Chemical Engineers and Mechanical engineers? I am not an engineer but I worked 34 years in a large chemical plant where nearly everything was made of stainless steel. Often, when a pipe was attached to a tank, it was done by welding half a stainless steel pipe coupling into the side of the tank, then a pipe nipple can be screwed into this half coupling. Since the outside diameter of the pipe coupling is much larger than the pipe, I believe this makes a significantly stronger connection and if it is heliarc welded both inside and out, it should come out quite smooth and easy to keep clean. I also would suggest using teflon tape on the threads. Stainless steel is pretty bad about siezing. Tom Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 11:02:27 -0500 From: "David R. Burley" <Dave_Burley at compuserve.com> Subject: Parti-gyle, Brewsters, Loren is correct that there were no serious answers to the question of wh= at constitutes a "parti-gyle". The answer s/he provided is not correct abou= t it being a quart of wort held back for later addition, however. "Gyle" pronounced "gail or guile" in English ( and not "jile" ) is relat= ed to the word "gijl" (Dutch) pronounced "guile" which itself is related to= the Dutch word "gijlen" which means "to ferment". The modifier "parti" just means a "portion". So "parti-gyle" means a portion of a fermentatio= n or a fermentation which is broken into portions. Parti-gyle in British usage has come to represent the process whereby several beers can be made from the same mash by taking off the first runnings of wort to brew a strong beer and then brewing a small beer from= the sparged wort, plus some of the first runnings wort added to it to provide sufficient nutrients for the yeast. Rarely ,but on occasion, thes= e are combined in two or more separate fermenters to make identical beers. - ------------------------------------------ Keep on brewin' Dave Burley Kinnelon, NJ 07405 103164.3202 at compuserve.com Dave_Burley at compuserve.com = Voice e-mail OK = Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 00:14:50 -0800 From: Steve Armbrust <stevea at thepalace.com> Subject: Cleaning blowoff hoses In HBD #2561, Dave Burley asks how others clean their blowoff hoses. = Well, like some others, I've switched to a larger glass carboy (6.5 gal) = for my primary fermenter and eliminated the blow-off hose. However, I = did this primarily because it was easier. When I did use a blow-off = hose, I felt I adequately cleaned it by first using a bottle brush on = the inside to remove debris and then soaking it in a sanitizer. The key to using a bottle brush (a little smaller than a carboy brush = and without the kink) is to tie a length of thick string to the end of = the handle. To the other end of the string, tie something heavy, such as = several washers or nuts. The brush must have a large enough diameter to = not just fall through the hose (which is why the string is necessary). = Then drop the string through the blowoff hose and pull the bottle brush = through. Do this several times from both directions, twisting the brush = when you get it far enough to get a hold. - --------------------------------------------------------------- Steve Armbrust stevea at thepalace.com Human Factors Engineer 503-350-3246 The Palace Inc. 9401 SW Nimbus Avenue Beaverton, OR 97008 - --------------------------------------------------------------- The fact that an opinion has been widely held is no evidence=20 that it is not utterly absurd. -- Bertrand Russell Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 97 12:41:56 EDT From: "Ellery.Samuels" <esamuel at mvsb.nycenet.edu> Subject: Xmas Gifts I would like to purchase some books as holiday gifts for homebrewing friends. Most are what would be considered intermediate brewers (ie partial-mash brews).CP's book is already available. Looking for books that would raise their knowledge (and mine too) in areas such as: decoction mashing; protein rests; formulating recipes; using adjuncts... Private e-mail or public postings okay. Will post and list all responses when received. Thanx, Ellery Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 12:18:37 -0500 (EST) From: S&R Moed <bina at idirect.com> Subject: PH test strips Hi from the North everyone, could someone please send me information on which ph test strips to use for all grain brewing (i'm just starting out) and where to get them? I'm in southern Ontario, but any where in the world via mail order is fine. Please send me their phone # or e-mail and product # if possible. Thanks Rob Moed (bina at idirect.com) Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 11:52:51 -0600 From: lheavner at tcmail.frco.com (Lou Heavner) Subject: temperature scale Sorry in advance for wasting bandwidth... Sometime back, a temperature scale was jokingly offered which related various temperatures to various activities in Wisconsin. It went down to pretty low temperatures, as I recall. If anybody has that bit of humor and can mail it to me, I'd be grateful. Muchas Gracias, Lou <lheavnerATfrmailDOTfrcoDOTcom> (You know the drill... replace AT with at and DOT with .) Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 11:40:24 -0800 From: Sheena McGrath <sheena at gte.net> Subject: Re: cost justification I sympathise with the man whose SO complains about the cost of brewing. Luckily, my husband used to brew but never had any luck with it, so he's happy to leave me to it. The way I justify all-grain expenses is to spread them over time, and brew enough beer to justify the equipment cost. (If $50 dollars worth of equipment is used to make 50 batches of beer, that is an extra cost of a dollar a batch. Creative accounting.) The second way to justify expenses is, as others have pointed out, the cost of micros and imports. As long as I keep brewing English ales and Red Nectar clones I have no fear of my husband getting restless. It's also known as bribery. So find out what your wife likes best and brew up a special batch "just for her". And get creative with the money part. Sheena Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 13:47:12 -0600 (CST) From: Al Korzonas <korz at xnet.com> Subject: Bubble-gum! Rick writes: >Any suggestions on what causes a bubble gum aroma and flavor to a beer? = >I have had good success with a particular IPA (extract) brew but 2 out = >of 8 have had this obnoxious scent & flavor. Is this a known problem = >that is correctable? Not correctable for already made batches. Yeast create that aroma and my strong suspicion is that it's a Brettanomyces yeast. Orval is loaded with bubble-gum aroma and that comes from a Brettanomyces yeast they add along with several other yeasts late in the process (it's either in the secondary or for bottle-conditioning, but my notes aren't handy). Brettanomyces are rather attenuative yeasts... are the FG's of these beers lower than expected? Whether it's Brett or not, the bottom line is it's the yeast. Don't reuse the yeast if you don't like this aroma (or make an Orval clone!) and watch sanitation... it could be that a Brettanomyces yeast (they are very durable) has taken up residence in a scratch in your fermenter or in the tap on your bottling bucket, etc. You may even choose to change all the plastic hoses, fillers, canes, etc. (it's a good idea to do this once a year or so even if you don't have infections). Al. Al Korzonas, Palos Hills, IL korz at xnet.com My new website (still under construction, but up-and-running): http://www.brewinfo.com/brewinfo/ Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 14:05:39 -0600 (CST) From: Al Korzonas <korz at xnet.com> Subject: bottling yeasts I've had a lot of offline discussions and I want to clarify my statement regarding Belgian Ales and bottling yeasts. I used to be crazy about Belgian Ales and that's all I would drink. Now, I have them once in a while, but am brewing more Bitters and experimenting with German lagers and ales. I've really fallen behind in my study of Belgian Ales. So, based upon the two dozen or so breweries for which I know with quite a bit of certainty as to whether they filter, bottle-condition with the primary yeast, or bottle-condition with a different yeast, about a third that we get in the US are filtered (like Rodenbach). Of the rest I only know of Orval to be using a different yeast than the fermentation yeast. Now, given that there are over 300 different beers brewed in Belgium, it was unfair for me to make a generalization such as I did, that implied that *most* are using the fermentation yeast for bottling. Jim Busch mentioned Westmalle in private email. I've heard in the past that this is a bottling yeast, but since then, Pierre Rajotte has told me that he revived a yeast from a bottle of Westmalle and after a few generations of poor attenuation, it began to ferment more normally. He thought that perhaps it was simply beat-up by the alcohol and long trip across the big pond. So, that's my take on this whole thing. Sorry Ken, I don't know about the Lefebvre Brussels White, although I believe I tasted it on my last trip to Belgium... have to check my notes. Al. Al Korzonas, Palos Hills, IL korz at xnet.com My new website (still under construction, but up-and-running): http://www.brewinfo.com/brewinfo/ Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 16:43:57 EST From: "Curt Speaker" <speaker at safety-1.safety.psu.edu> Subject: another thought on homebrewing expense Just a quick thought on this thread: Has anyone priced even mediocre beer at the distributor lately??? (yes, I live in the anal state of Pennsylvania where you can only buy cases of beer at a beer distributor) Bud (which I wouldn't use to poison wild animals) is ~$15/case; decent micros are $20-35; imports are $25-40+ depending on what you're interested in. Given the volume of beer that I like to drink, it is fairly easy to justify the cost of homebrewing. I culture my Wyeast from the dregs of my secondary, buy hops in bulk and brew allgrain, so I can make 2 cases of beer (5 gallons) for about $7-8. I'm also single, so I also don't have to justify my hobby to a spouse...plus one of my cats eats the spilled barley kernels :-) Just another data point Curt Curt Speaker Biosafety Officer Penn State University Environmental Health and Safety speaker at ehs.psu.edu http://www.ehs.psu.edu ^...^ (O_O) =(Y)= """ Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 16:46:00 -0500 From: "Alan McKay" <Alan.McKay.amckay at nt.com> Subject: Justify your expenses Ken Lee wants to know how to justify expenses. Well, Ken, I don't know what you're doing wrong, but my beer is costing me about $10 CDN or less for 5 dozen. That doesn't count all the money on equipment, of course, But if you really want to, you can stop buying that any time you want. I just don't want to :-) As for the time : well, it's a hobby. I don't want to be too critical, but it sounds to me like your wife just has to learn to deal with it. What hobbies does she have, and how much time does she spend with them? 7 or 8 hours per month isn't a lot of time to spend on a hobby. Surely to goodness she can't expect you to spend every waking hour together? That's a recipe for maddness! 1 day per month is hardly something you should have to beg for. My wife gives me 1 day per week provided that I set aside my Sunday for just the 2 of us. Make some compromises. Do some of the yucky, boring, female things, and don't complain when she makes you do them. Afterall, isn't your beer worth it? ;-) -Alan - -- Alan McKay Nortel Enterprise Networks Norstar / Companion / Monterey Operations PC Support Prime Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 16:37:13 -0500 From: "Alan McKay" <Alan.McKay.amckay at nt.com> Subject: Cabbage smell in beer from HSA Well, after a long time listening to people tell me that hot-side aeration will cause cabbage smells, I finally experienced it. I pasteurized an infected batch by siphoning it into my big brewpot and putting it on the stove. Anyway, during all of this I smelled the cabbage for the first time in my life, and it was a very distinct cabbage. However, in the past I've violently shaken carboys full of wort which were hot enough to kill yeast, and have never had this before. Could it be that things have to be pretty damned hot for this to trouble you? -alan - -- Alan McKay Nortel Enterprise Networks Norstar / Companion / Monterey Operations PC Support Prime Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 16:08:32 -0600 From: Rob Kienle <rkienle at interaccess.com> Subject: Efficiencies, Sparging & Stout Now that my wedding is over (and the wedding alt is all but gone), I'm back to beermaking (whoever says it's easier the second time around hasn't taken the age factor into consideration!). Last weekend I brewed my first big (12-gallon) batch of stout, which, aiming for an OG of 1.072, involved some 30 lbs of grain. The bill included about 64% pale ale malt, 10% roasted barley, 10% flaked barley, 6% chocolate, 5% crystal, and 5% black patent. My efficiency on this batch was significantly lower than normal, and I'm trying to figure out why. One thing I noticed was that I was running perilously close to a stuck sparge most of the way through. The recirculating pump started clogging up several times when the inflow from the kettle would slow down, and upon stirring I noticed how the weight of all that grain had really compacted a thick layer of crud on top of the false bottom. I'm wondering, then, if the efficiency dropped off since a lot of sugars got left in the bottom layer of the mash. Has anyone else noticed anything like this, or has anyone tried using some rice hulls with a mash that big in order to facilitate the runoff (which I'm thinking of trying next time). The only other thing I can think of is that the batch did involve a pretty high percentage of diastatically neutral grains (flaked, roasted, chocolate) and relied quite heavily, therefore, on the pale ale malt for conversion (which is supposably pretty weak compared to regular 2-row, we think). I corrected the efficiency factor by boiling the wort for an extra hour and a half to concentrate the solution to my target OG, but I'd rather come up with a more time-effective answer for the future. Any thoughts (on the beer, not the wedding!)? - -- Cheers4beers, Rob Kienle Chicago, IL rkienle at interaccess.com Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 97 14:15:34 -0800 From: brian_dixon at om.cv.hp.com Subject: Re: Schmidling & wort chilling >I agree that it is unnecessary for a home brewer who makes 5 gal batches >to make or buy a fancy wort chiller. However, I use a procedure to >chill my 5-6 gal of wort that is faster and not much more work than his >"no chill" method. > [stuff about pot chilling in a water bath snipped] You are of course right, that being so anal isn't necessary. I force chill because there are many sources of information about why hot wort shouldn't sit around hot for any longer than necessary, AND because chilling made my post-boil experience so darned convenient. First time I did it, I felt like I was cheating or something, and yes, I started with the usual water bath method and found it to be a successful method to use. Then I built my own immersion chiller. In fact, I did go a little beyond the norm (since I was building one anyway) and I built a double chiller ... no, not the pre-chill then chill gizmos you see some people talk about. I just built 2 chillers, each using 30' of 3/8" copper line, but one was a larger diameter and the other was a smaller (small kettle and paint can used to form the coils). I placed the smaller diameter chiller inside the larger, then used T-fittings on the in-feed and out-feeds of the two coils so that a single hose would feed both. A bit of copper tie-up wire to hold the coils together and voila! Super chiller! With 60 F water from my hose, I can chill 5-6 gallons of wort from a full boil to around 65 F in 8 - 9 minutes. Unless I wait to let the cold break material settle out (I usually do), I can be pitching the yeast within 20 to 30 minutes from a full rolling boil! Now I get to bed earlier! Compared to the 4+ hours for water bath chilling, this seemed to be too incredible the first time I tried it. Beer quality is better too, but I also changed a boat load of other things at the same time (all-grain, full boil volume, etc.), so I won't pretend to make any sweeping conclusions about how necessary force-chilling is ... and besides, none of my friends commented that the 'old' beer they had tasted in years past was bad, so what evidence do I have, eh? Brian ....................................................................... Item Subject: WINMAIL.DAT Couldn't convert Microsoft Mail Message Data item to text at a gateway. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 17:33:13 -0500 From: Grampus <grampusNOSPAM at InfoAve.Net> Subject: Cleaning Blowoff tubes I use a largish couple of nuts tied on one end of a string and my bottle = brush on the other, threading the weighted end through the 1" ID tube = and then pulling the brush through the detergent-and-water soaked tube. = It gets all the gunk out of the tube before doing a complete soak in = bleach water to sanitize it! BTW, I don't use any kind of sterilizing solution in the water-locked = end of the blow-off tube. I have serious doubts that it will ever have = a return of 4 feet up the hose, so I just use clean water in a 5 gallon = bucket. Paul Gennrich Isp Brewing Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 97 14:59:18 -0800 From: brian_dixon at om.cv.hp.com Subject: Re: Winterfest > Well, I know I'll get blasted for this one, but I've got to ask > anyway. I have never seen any information on what makes a > "Winterfest" beer, so I assume it is strictly for marketing, and not > really a beer style. My problem is that I really love Coors > Winterfest. I know, I know, everybody shuns the Budmilloors swill, > but this is different. And I know, I'll get e-mails that say "if you > like Coors Winterfest, you've GOT to try this brand". I've tried them > all, and I keep coming back to the Coors -- there is something very > unique about it. I'm not a big fan of trying to clone commercial > beers; it's easier just to go buy them. However, for the other nine > months of the year when this is not available, I would love to brew > something similar. Would this be characterized as a simple Fest beer, > like a Vienna, or low-gravity Marzen? If anyone could help me with > this, I would greatly appreciate it. I don't think there are any rules. In fact, rule breaking seems to be the idea. Winter brews, whether called Winterfest or Jubel-something or Holiday-something or whatever appear to be an opportunity for microbrewers and homebrewers to step outside the style guidelines a bit and make a special beer for the holidays, unrestricted by the usual brew-haha about style and guidelines. Michelob, Coors, and others who are jumping on the Winterfest bandwagon are just playing the marketing and competition game to compete with the microbrewers. But, I always persist in my idea that american light lager (noncapitalization on the name intentional) is a distinct regional style that grew in response to very valid influences (cost and availability of ingredients, oligopolistic business climate etc.). These forces are _not_ a lot different from the forces that caused the famous beer styles of the world to develop ... it's just sad to realize that for the US, it was a recipe for crap instead of beer (sorry). Taste is a very personal thing, and I won't work too hard at pressing my opinions onto others. So, if the Coors stuff is good, and it might be, then I say vote with your dollars and buy a lot, drink it and be merry! If I hear much more about it, then I may go buy one can myself just to try it out ... Brian ....................................................................... Item Subject: WINMAIL.DAT Couldn't convert Microsoft Mail Message Data item to text at a gateway. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 15:26:03 PST From: "Mike Palma" <mikepalma at hotmail.com> Subject: Bottle Storage Hello, I'm usually just a lurker on the list, but have a question I was hoping to get some advice on. I have around 10 cases of empty bottles I'm looking to store in a limited amount of space. The best idea I can come up with is to buy one of those heavy duty roll-cart garbage cans (plastic) and fill it up with bottles and water. I also thought I throw in some tri-sodium phosphate to keep the mold away. Could anyone out there play devil's advocate and tell me why this is or isn't a good idea? Any other ideas/suggestions? Thanks in advance. Mike Palma mikepalma at hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 18:07:41 -0800 From: headbrewer at juno.com (Mark D Weaver) Subject: fermenter CO2 to carboy Tom, That's an interesting idea you have. I seem to recall that fermentation gases (CO2) can also carry with it some undesireable odors, so you may just want to "flush" your carboy with some CO2 from your CO2 tank. The CO2 that you buy is "scrubbed" and filtered, and in the long run wont cost you very much... Regards, Mark >Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997 19:48:33 -0500 >From: Tom Clark <rtclark at eurekanet.com> >Subject: CO2 >Has anybody tried this? >Connect a piece of tubing from the air lock on top of the primary >fermenter and run it over into the empty carboy. >By the time primary fermentation is pretty much over and it is time to >rack the brew to the carboy, the carboy should be full of CO2. >Right? >Are the risks of infection significant? Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 17:48:26 -0800 From: headbrewer at juno.com (Mark D Weaver) Subject: RE: Belgian Yeasts Hello fellow forumers, Just so you know what I wrote regarding Belgian Yeasts was a rumor that I heard, I was not writing it as if an absolute fact. However, I happen to know that SOME (please note the disclaimer as to NOT ALL) do not use their fermentation yeasts to "prime" their finished bottled product. For the gentleman that suggested that we ask Bill Clinton's cousin about Anchor Brewing Co's yeast; Well, it seems that past presidents have had relatives who were fairly knowledgable about beer, so why not? ;-) One question: Does anyone know the life span of a Framboise or Kriek regarding storage temps? Recently I purchased some for a few friends while I was in CO, it seemed to taste a little on the mishandled side as compared to what I can get at home. I know the life span of an un-pasteurized beer, at room temp (78F) is something to the tune of 8 weeks, or less.... Any comments? Regards, Mark (O=00=O) / (o--tii-o) (O=00=O) / (D D) Mark Weaver - Brewer on the Loose - : headbrewer at juno.com or AwfulQuiet at aol.com Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 18:08:19 -0800 From: headbrewer at juno.com (Mark D Weaver) Subject: Belgian Yeasts Al, >I'd trust brewers before I trusted royalty, but I happen to know for a fact that Chimay, Westmalle, De Dolle Brouwers, DuPont, Achouffe, >are five examples (off the top of my head) of breweries in which the yeast in the bottles is actually the fermentation yeast. Cantillon's >lambics are not filtered nor are the Boon Marriage Parfait, Oud Beersel, Drie Fonteinen or Giradin, which means that you can revive *some* of the >microbiota from the fermentations (many are killed by alcohol and pH). Ah! Finally someone who is more interested in educating rather than ripping someone a new *ssh*le for the fact that he made an overly zealous posting to the forum. I agree with you, I didn't mean to imply that ALL belgian beers have their yeast "replaced". >Ahh, *now* it is, but pre-1994 (I believe) New Belgium's Trippel [sic] and Abbey Ale *were* indeed bottled with the fermentation strain >(this is from the brewmaster's talk at the Denver AHA Conference) and I happen to still have a bottle of Abbey Ale with the primary >fermentation yeast in the bottle. Any thoughts as to the viabilty of that yeast? You know that WYeast's (or maybe Seibel's) yeast bank has some belgian yeast in storage... or so I heard at the MBAA in Madison. I was told about New Belgium's yeast by their then night shift brewer, we attended the MBAA M&BS course together before I went to work for an ill-fated (read badly managed) micro in WV... Regards, Mark - Co-Founder: BWBSBM Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 20:00:16 From: "C.D. Pritchard" <cdp at chattanooga.net> Subject: re: Pump placement Dave Burley wrote: >Ted Hull gives an excellent dissertation on pump cavitation and recommends >placing the pump between the boiler and the chiller to avoid cavitation >caused by frictional losses in the chiller.... Doesn't the high >temperature of the water on the boiler side cause cavitation moreso than <the cooler side due to the much higher vapor pressure of the hot water? The pump will be more likely to cavitate when located between the boiler and the chiller since it's pumping near boiling wort. OTHO, there's alot of friction loss in all that chiller tubing. A solution might be to make the chiller as a tall coil with the pump at floor level so that you have a bit more static head. c.d. pritchard cdp at chattanooga.net Web Page: http://home.chattanooga.net/~cdp/ Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 20:22:43 -0800 From: headbrewer at juno.com (Mark D Weaver) Subject: WYeast 1338 Fred, Have you looked in the BRD for their #? or perhaps the Market Guide? >>Have a question about Wyeast 1338 being a very different yeast than it >>was a few months ago. Wyeast seems to have an unlisted phone number. Mark Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 18:55:00 -0800 (PST) From: homebrew at dcn.davis.ca.us (Sean Mick) Subject: Re: parti-gyle definition Loren Crow takes an admirable stab at defining parti-gyle brewing to the collective based on the Encyclopedic definition of gyle, but misses the mark. I'm no expert on the topic, but according to an article I read in Brewing Techniques (on the web at www.brewingtechniques.com) parti-gyle is the process of making a "big" beer and a successive "small" beer from the first, second, and sometimes third runnings from your mash. I believe Randy Mosher wrote the article in BT, and he said that he usually draws the first third of the runoff to create a high gravity beer, and then uses the second two-thirds to create a normal gravity beer. In fact, this is apparently how the original Belgian beer designations tripel, dubbel, and single were made: based on the first second and third runnings from the mash. HTH, see BT's web page for more info. Sean Mick Mick's Homebrew Supplies http://www.dcn.davis.ca.us/~homebrew Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 21:43:49 -0600 From: Louis Bonham <lkbonham at phoenix.net> Subject: Lab stuff Another followup to the WST thread . . . Spoke to Dr. Paul Farnsworth this evening; he's back from Tahiti. He does have additional copies of his lab manual and supplies of actidione solution (and 0.22 micron syringe filters and other labware) for sale. You can reach Paul at 210.695.2547. Just be sure and give him lots of grief about having to do a brewery installation in such a horrible place . . . . Speaking of labware, I have found a great source of labware at el cheapo prices -- Cynmar Corporation. They have great prices on about everything. For example: a current special is for 12 300ml Pyrex Erlenmeyer flasks (perfect size for WST) for $19.50 -- about half of what you'll pay through VWR or most other places. Student grade (Kimax) 1000ml flasks can be had for $27.00 for 6 -- again, less than half of the usual price. Plus a selection of reagents, media (lab-grade agar, peptone, TSA, etc.), and other nifty stuff (like LP bunsen burners for $6). And they'll happily sell to individuals and take credit cards. You can reach them at 1.800.223.3517. Their web page is pretty anemic, but is at: www.cynmar.com Get their catalog -- it's worth the effort. No financial connection; just a very satisfied customer, yadda yadda yadda. And watch this space for a major announcement from the MCAB about Qualifying Events . . . coming soon to an HBD near you! You'll hear it here first! Louis K. Bonham lkbonham at phoenix.net Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 22:48:21 -0600 (CST) From: Richard Gardner <rgardner at papillion.ne.us> Subject: RE: Homegrown hops Don H Van Valkenburg wrote: > I don't think you can just pick them and throw in the kettle, as some say they did. Well, Bert Grant does! (Probably the oldest still open brewpub in the country.) This year he celebrated 15 years of pub brewing out of Yakima WA, and produced "Fresh Hop Ale," which was also served at the GABF in Denver. This extremely hoppy beer is made from hops that were used soon after picking, WITHOUT being dried. I specifically asked Bert Grant in Denver if the hops were dried first, and he said they weren't. Cascades were used, 5% b/v. It was quite a popular beer at the festival, recognizing that this is no guarantee of quality. This new brew is described in several recent brewing articles, including the Oct/Nov Celebrator Beer News (pg. 19). However, I would not necessarily recommend this style of brewing myself; it all depends on the style of beer you are making and I doubt you could make a good Pilsner from wet Saaz hops (it might be a good beer, but not in style). Return to table of contents
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