HOMEBREW Digest #2572 Tue 02 December 1997

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		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
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  Home malting, cidery beer ("David R. Burley")
  Keg insulation: clarification (David S Draper)
  sugar and cidery flavors / flaked wheat / harvesting yeast (George De Piro)
  Extract Potential of Dark Grains (Brian S Kuhl)
  Wheat beer (Mark D Weaver)
  Re: Aquarium pumps (Grampus)
  hot break, sugar and keg conditioning ("Raymond Estrella")
  Pete's Wicked Ginger Clone (Bodie Heflin)
  Racking yeast.. (Mark D Weaver)
  RE: re: rye beer... (Mark D Weaver)
  Buena Noche Metallic flavour (Mark D Weaver)
  yeast - how to tell who is who... (Joe Rolfe)
  Rye Beer, ("David R. Burley")
  cp filling help (Jeff Sturman)
  coffee stout (Tom Lombardo)
  RE: Cranberry useage questions (Paul Kensler)
  Bubblegum & Wyeast 2124 ("Grant W. Knechtel")
  homebrew cooking - lamb carbonade and steak fries (smurman)
  re: Buena Noche Metallic Flavor ("Pat Babcock")
  re: Buena Noche Metallic Flavor (Mark D Weaver)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 28 Nov 1997 12:27:41 -0500 From: "David R. Burley" <Dave_Burley at compuserve.com> Subject: Home malting, cidery beer Brewsters: Keith Manefy says: >Is the drying phase of malting barley absolutely necessary? Would it be= >possible to germinate the barley to the required stage and then go >straight to the brewery for mashing. = It is possible Keith, but then you would be using "green" malt and get a different result than with cured malt. The old time Dutch and Flemish Brewers used to ( and some may still for historical reasons) dry their malt at room temperature in lofts and call it "wind malt." If it is dried quickly, I suspect it will have a very high enzyme content, especially beta amylase and the glucanases and proteases. Check out the HBD archives. Malting and Brewing Science says: " Perhaps in the future there will be a market for pale malts that are only hand dry, i.e. contain perhaps 5-8% moisture. = Such materials would be much easier to use than green malt while retaining the advantage of a complement of highly active enzymes and would have lost its "green" flavor." Green malt has something like 17% or more moisture content, so on drying it should lose 10-15% of its weight. Although I know alpha amylase is generated and increases throughout germination, I do remember reading in the HBD that the curing = at around 110F promoted the formation of alpha amylase in the germinated grain, if I understood the author correctly. I have never checked this out for authenticity. There may = be other reasons, but for sure you have to dry the germinated grain at low temperatures of 70-80F or so, followed by a slightly higher curin= g temperature to get that "malty"aroma and flavor. For example, = Munich malt is cured at a higher temperature than pale and = does exhibit a maltier aroma and produces a maltier beer than pale malt from the same maltster by all accounts. The enzyme content of the Munich malt is lower than pale malt because of the higher cure T. One thing you should think about is using something like a cool/cold hairdryer or fan arrangement with a pillowcase ( but be careful of fire since it is not designed for this kind of service) or perhaps as Charlie Papazian suggests, = just put the pillowcase with green malt in it into a cool/cold clothes dryer to remove most of the moisture. Since moisture migration from the inside of the grain is slow, you can follow the drying over a day or so by weighing the bag to constant weight. Of course, your clothes dryer isn't made for this kind of continuous service either so you should still be careful, but this is perhaps the safer alternative. Then this malt can be cured at 110F or so for pale malt and slightly higher temperatures to make darker malts. Crystal malt is made with still wet malt heated to the saccharificaion temperature and then to boiling and higher briefly to caramelize the sugars. I suggest you start here. Lots of other information is contained in the HBD archives.. I have produced "wind malt" on my basement floor and then = dried it gently, but have never gotten anywhere near the efficiency as I do now from professionally prepared malt. But that was in the days when I didn't fully appreciate the importance of the relationship of grinding my malt to the efficiency of extraction. Maybe I'll try again some day. = - ----------------------------------------- I have to agree that there is no reason to suspect table sugar over any other as producing cidery beer, but in the dark ages of homebrewing in 1969, my notebook from then definitely says "cidery" when describing my organo-leptic impressions of some of my Blue-ribbon malt extract efforts. This was an impression uninfluenced by any reading or discussion, since in those days such communication channels didn't exist. So I do believe that this impression of cidery homebrew is real. I also know that sugars are used routinely in commercial British beers and my British beers produced there from British extract were never cidery, despite adding sugar in some cases. I'm sure the cidery taste is due to bacteria-infected yeast (in the US, yeasts were not available commercially in those days and passed from brewer to brewer) = and low FANs from too high a sugar content. Ask yourself why cider is "cidery". Since yeast produce simple sugars they normally ferment from the sucrose, I have dismissed this sucrose-causes-cidery-beer myth long ago. I think it is time to put that myth to bed and to forget about= the need touted in ancient British brewing books of that era, to produce "invert sugar" by boiling sucrose with citric acid. Yeast has plenty of extracellular invertase to do that automatically and you avoid = the potential for that "drier" taste associated with the added acid. Keep the percentage of added sugar below 20% and you will be OK. The higher the OG from malt, the higher the percentage of sugar you can add and still get an acceptable result. Whenever possible, use malt derived sugars from malt extract. - ---------------------------------------------------- Keep on brewin' Dave Burley Kinnelon, NJ 07405 103164.3202 at compuserve.com Dave_Burley at compuserve.com = Voice e-mail OK = Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 28 Nov 1997 11:59:13 -0600 (CST) From: David S Draper <ddraper at utdallas.edu> Subject: Keg insulation: clarification Dear Friends, It's my turn to say DUH. I neglected one key fact in my last post asking for advice on affixing insulation to my new keg mash/lauter tun. It is going to be direct-fired, sitting on a cajun cooker with that big ol' flame raging beneath it (hence the use of fiberglass). So whatever is used to keep the fiberglass on the tun has to be able to take some heat, possible direct flame. Wire or metal strips of some sort would do, but I am hoping for something a little more slick (as we all know, slickness is very important) for easy on/off, and to keep my skin contact with fiberglass to a minimum. Many thanks to the half-dozen respondents I have already had, with helpful suggestions were it not for the direct flame angle. As I said, duh! Cheers, Dave, about 800 miles southwest of Jeff Renner - -- David S. Draper ddraper at utdallas.edu Fax: 972-883-2829 Dept. Geosciences WWW: hbd.org/~ddraper Electron Probe Lab: Univ. Texas at Dallas 972-883-2407 ...That's right, you're not from Texas... but Texas wants you anyway... Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 28 Nov 1997 13:19:21 -0800 From: George_De_Piro at berlex.com (George De Piro) Subject: sugar and cidery flavors / flaked wheat / harvesting yeast Hi all, Patrick responds to my post about corn sugar causing cidery notes when used in excess. He ponders why sugars might do this, and speculates that only sucrose will cause this problem. The key word in this situation is "excess." Excess 100% fermentable sugar of ANY kind will thin out a beer and cause cidery (or winy, to some people) flavors. The reason, as I see it, is quite simple: the sugar becomes ethanol. There are no body producing proteins or flavorful compounds contributed by sugar. If too much sugar is added to a beer, the extra alcohol, with nothing else to back it up, causes the beer to be thin and cider-like. If a tremendous excess of sugar is added, the effects on yeast health may also add off flavors or cause fermentation problems. I don't know how much sugar would have to be added before that happens, though. There are many commercial beers that use added sugar, but you will find that the vast majority of their fermentables comes from malt and grains. In this way, the sugar will dry out the finish and produce a beer with lighter body than one might expect from an all-malt beer of similar strength. The beer will still be flavorful and very "beer like" because most of the fermentables are derived from sources more complex than sugar. -------------------------------- Dan asks for opinions about his American wheat beer recipe, which will feature 50-75% flaked wheat, the remainder being 2-row. That's a heck of a lot of flaked wheat! I would worry about the 2-row's ability to convert all that starch (flaked wheat has NO diastatic power, but plenty of starch in need of conversion). I would be very surprised if you were able to lauter that grain bill in a reasonable amount of time, too. You really should try to use malted wheat if you want 75% wheat in the grain bill, or just lower the amount of flaked wheat to 30-50%. I think you'll still have a tough lauter at 50% flaked wheat, though, depending on your system. The flavor contribution of flaked wheat may be different from that of malted wheat, too. You may want to try a Wit beer if those are the ingredients that are available to you. Remember: there is a BIG difference between "gelatinized" and "converted." Flaked wheat is gelatinized, meaning the starches are available for enzymatic conversion to sugar, but they are NOT already converted! Try tasting the flaked wheat. Not very sweet, is it? ------------------------------------ "Socialking at aol.com" (please sign your posts to the HBD) asks about harvesting yeast from a carboy. It's quite easy, actually. Just leave a pint or so of beer in the carboy after racking out of it (you should be leaving some beer behind anyway, so as to not get to much junk into the receiving vessel). Swirl the carboy to resuspend the yeast, sanitize the mouth (of the carboy) in your favorite manner, and pour the slurry into a sanitized receiving jar. I find that 1 qt. glass milk bottles from "Ronnybrook Farms" work very nicely as a storage jar. A number 7 stopper fits them, which is quite convenient for homebrewers. If you are like me, and you don't like milk, you may be able to find them for the price of the deposit ($1) at the grocery store (sometimes I find them in people's recycling bins while walking my dog; people must think me quite strange to be taking them). You should feed the yeast some wort and keep it cool (38F, 3.3C) if you aren't going to use it right away. You can keep it a week or two in this way (in my experience), but be sure to warm it slowly and feed it a couple of days before the next brew session. Have fun! George De Piro (Nyack, NY; nowhere near Jeff Renner) Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 28 Nov 97 11:02:00 PST From: Brian S Kuhl <Brian_S_Kuhl at ccm.fm.intel.com> Subject: Extract Potential of Dark Grains Here is what I have found on this subject... Table 4 - Nominal Malt Yields in Points/Pound/Gallon Malt Type % Yield PPG Max PPG(85%)PPG Steep 2 Row Base Malt 79 37 31 -- 6 Row Base Malt 76 35 30 -- 2 Row British Pale Malt 81 38 32 -- Biscuit/Victory Malt 75 35 30 -- Vienna Malt 75 35 30 -- Munich Malt 75 35 30 -- Brown Malt 70 32 28 8* Dextrin Malt 70 32 28 4* Light Crystal (10 - 15L)75 35 30 14* Pale Crystal (25 - 40L) 74 34 29 22 Medium Crystal (60 - 75L)74 34 29 18 Dark Crystal (120L) 72 33 28 16 Special B 68 31 27 16 Chocolate Malt 60 28 24 15 Roast Barley 55 25 22 21 Black Patent Malt 55 25 22 21 Wheat Malt 79 37 31 -- Rye Malt 63 29 25 -- Oatmeal (Flaked) 70 32 28 -- Corn (Flaked) 84 39 33 -- Barley (Flaked) 70 32 28 -- Wheat (Flaked) 77 36 30 -- Rice (Flaked) 82 38 32 -- Malto-Dextrin Powder 100 40 40 40 Sugar (Corn, Cane) 100 46 46 46 Hope this helps you, Brian Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 28 Nov 1997 14:35:19 -0800 From: headbrewer at juno.com (Mark D Weaver) Subject: Wheat beer Dan, Hi. I noticed your post in the digest about a wheat beer. My only concern with the beer you described is the potential for a stuck and or slow sparge. 75% wheat is a lot to go with. I have done several Decocted weisse beers using malted wheat at 55% of the grist and barley malt (2 row pale without having any conversion problems) at 45% of the grist (and a few specialy malts for colour) (I have not used flaked wheat for my weisse beers) and haven't had a problem with the sparge. My experience with flaked wheat is that it will plug your mash tun quite easily, so you may want to go with malted wheat (anyone know any techniques to employ so that this does not happen with flaked wheat?). Malted wheat will add a little bit of colour, whereas flaked wheat adds little if any. (The difference between the two is that malted wheat is malted, and flaked wheat is steamed, then flattened.) However, there may be a way to get around the stuck sparge. There is a rumor that some breweries employ Rice Husks to allow an efficient sparge while making wheat beers with a high wheat content. Rice husks are reported to impart no tannins or colour to the sweet liquor. Try as I might to find some I can't. Anyone know where I can? (I personally prefer a drier wheat beer with as much wheat as possible, so that might be adventageous...) The 122F rest is a protein rest. It allows the proteins in the mash to be broken down and prevents your beer from being overly hazy. While the discussion in the HBD about the protein rest affecting wheat's head retention charateristics may be true (I haven't followed that one too closely, too busy at work), I have employed this rest without any problems regarding head retention in non-wheat based beers as well as weisse beer. As to the step infusion, this is what I employ on my wiesse biers (I have taken out the steps for decoction and given the target temps. Please keep in mind that these temps are for a decocted wheat beer, and that the temps may not be the same for a regular wheat): .2 oz gypsum powder at start of mash. Mash in at 40C and hold for 5 minutes Heat to 51C in 10 minutes, hold for 30 minutes (Protein rest) Then raise to 62C and hold for 30 minutes Then raise to 72C and hold for 30 minutes or until iodine test shows conversion Mash out at 76C for 10 minutes. Sparge at 77C to 79C (to allow for cooling of sparge water and ease of flow through the mash bed) I do not know if these are the temps you want to hit for a regular wheat beer, so you may want to research that a bit more.... Have you tried Cat's Meow? My '02 cents. Open to everyone for comments on how to better this mash profile. Regards, Mark >This weekend I am going to attempt a 50-75% flaked wheat beer (the balance >being some american 2-row, my HB store in town does not regularly carry >6-row). >I've heard recently here and on the HBD that a 122F rest is detrimental to >the head, so now I have questions on what step profile to follow for that >amount of wheat. >Also, I have heard from others to use malted wheat and not flaked wheat to >aid conversion. I only have flaked wheat right now, but since it is already >flaked shouldn't it be mostly converted already. Plus the addition of the >2-row should help right? >Any suggestions? >TIA, >Dan Cole >dcole at roanoke.infi.net Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 28 Nov 1997 21:20:46 -0500 From: Grampus <grampusNOSPAM at InfoAve.Net> Subject: Re: Aquarium pumps Neal Parker wrote: >>It's very tempting to chalk the air pump up to one to many gadgets and leave it until the kids get a fish tank but I'd like to hear some HBD opinion on the little beast. << I simply run my pump without any filtration on the incoming side at all, and have had no problems of any kind with infections in 2 years of brewing. I suppose I could simply chalk it up to luck, but with the many spores and wee beasties here in teh deep south of coastal Georgia, it seems a stretch to do that....... IMHO, just run the pump! Does a FINE job of aeration based on the layers of foam I get on my wort! Paul Gennrich Isp Brewing Hinesville (near Savannah) Georgia Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 29 Nov 97 02:36:51 UT From: "Raymond Estrella" <ray-estrella at classic.msn.com> Subject: hot break, sugar and keg conditioning Hello to all, Rob ponders Andrew's statement, > Andrew notes in HBD 2566... >> While boiling, the foamy gunk that pops up is hot break, this too should be >> skimmed off as it forms. >Hmm. I thought the hot break was the crud that collects on the bottom of >the kettle just *after* the boil Are you talking about the foam that forms on the top >of the wort at the start of the boil? Same stuff? I've always wondered if >I oughta skim that off. The foamy gunk that pops up is actually foamy gunk that is hanging out in your wort. And it probably contains "some" hot break material. The hot break is formed by the clumping together of protein molecules, caused by the bumpy ride of an active boil. (Churn, baby, churn) The degree of break is very dependent upon the pH of the wort. Most of the stuff you see floating on top of your boil is just junk that made it past your false bottom, or grain bag, or zap-pap, or what-ever. And yes, skim it off. It is not necessary to do so. It will not ruin your beer if you do not skim it. But there is nothing beneficial that it will add to your beer, and there is a good chance that grain particles that made it through the sparge are collecting there, and if left to remain in there could contribute to potential problems. Patrick Humphry responds to G.DeP. saying, >It may be a matter of semantics here but, I was under the impression that >*cane sugar*, ie. sucrose, was the sugar that was responsible for the >development of cidery flavors. Corn sugar is glucose, ie. dextrose, >sucrose is a disaccharide of glucose and fructose. >Isn't dextrose added to some British ales? These don't seem to have the >"cidery" flavor attributed to the addition of sugar. Sugar is sugar, if it is not derived from malt, and is used at high enough percentages, it is going to contribute off flavors when fermented by brewing yeasts. The Belgians use lots of sugar in their brews. Cidery is not a descriptive that one hears about their beers. And yes, the British add it to many of their brews. It is a case of how much...... Back when homebrewing meant mixing 3 pounds of (dubious) malt extract with 4 cups of white sugar, (6 if you like it strong) and sprinkling some Fleischmann's<sp> yeast over it, yeah, you could expect some weird flavors. As long as you have a good malt base to your recipe, and you pitch a healthy yeast starter, you should not have any problems flavor-wise from as much as a 20% sugar contribution. Note though, it will change the body, mouth-feel, and final color of your beer. And finally Paul says, >>Kevin said: >>"I just don't seem to get the mouth feel carbonation [from >>force-carbonated kegs] that I got from bottle conditioning." >Although I know a LOT of people who are happy with the results from >forced carbonation, (sticking my neck out here, so no flames!) I don't >like the results myself and always do final conditioning in the keg. >I prime the keg with corn sugar. The keg seems to condition faster than >bottled beer does, so it is usually ready to drink in 7-10 days. I don't mind the >wait, since I really prefer the results from keg-conditioned brews. No flames, Paul, I promise. But artificial, or force carbonating, is not conditioning. When you add priming sugar to the keg, you are "naturally" carbonating, the same as if you had bottled the whole batch. It just takes you two weeks or so, instead of two days if you had put it under pressure. But conditioning is what happens during the time that the product spends after its finished state. Alcohol, malt, and bitterness achieving (we hope) a state of balance. You are correct in thinking that a beer that was just racked from the secondary 3 days ago, then force carbonated, may not be ready (conditioned) to drink. But your IPA that was racked, and primed in the keg 14 days ago is not conditioned (ready) to drink either. Ray Estrella Cottage Grove, MN ray-estrella at msn.com ******** Never relax, constantly worry, have a better homebrew. ******** Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 28 Nov 1997 20:56:44 -0600 From: Bodie Heflin <bodie at shreve.net> Subject: Pete's Wicked Ginger Clone I have been asked to make a beer like Pete's Wicked Ginger brew. Anybody got any recipes that would come close. It isn't a holiday type brew just seems to have a fair amount of ginger. Any suggestions appreciated. Bodie Dilla Brew Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 29 Nov 1997 02:12:48 -0800 From: headbrewer at juno.com (Mark D Weaver) Subject: Racking yeast.. John, Have you thought of purchasing a Fermen-Tap stand that turns the carboy upside down? It is supposed to allow you to take the yeast out without racking. I have one on order ($20), I too used to let my beer sit on the yeast, although I would pitch new yeast each time, I guess now for $20 I can re-use yeast that costs me $3.75 a "pop". I never had any problems until a few batches ago when I got excessive yeast bite, the beer sat on the yeast for 4 weeks (too much to do at work, not enough time). Sante, Mark (O=00=O) / (o---tii-o) (O=00=O) / (D D) Mark Weaver - Brewer on the Loose - : headbrewer at juno.com or AwfulQuiet at aol.com >Mike Dingas questioned the practice of leaving beer on the sediment for >3 weeks or more. >My brewing situation is perhaps odd in that I brew on the weekend at a place >I have out of town. I usually brew one weekend and rack the next but not >infrequently I cannot get back the next weekend and leave the beer in the >fermenter for two weeks. Occasionally it has gone three weeks. >I am now setting the dubious record of five weeks. I brewed on the 25th >of October and didn't get back until last weekend. However, I had conflicts >and could not rack then. I will finally rack off the sediment Friday, after >Thanksgiving. I won't reuse the yeast as it is the last of my usual series >of three with the same yeast. I expect the beer to be fine, though. >I guess I will find out. >John Wilkinson - Grapevine, Texas - (brewing in Palestine, Texas) Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 29 Nov 1997 02:46:24 -0800 From: headbrewer at juno.com (Mark D Weaver) Subject: RE: re: rye beer... Sheena, Maybe decoct it???? I have no idea, thought I would mention that though... The characteristics of rye are famous for a slow run-off in the sparge, making wheat look like a fun time... Decoction, in my weisse bier experience, helps to speed the sparge up... I had a rye at Rockbottom in Denver last year during GABF, very good. Only spoiled by the young people in back of us trying to throw their food, french fries, in our beers..... Regards, Mark (O=00=O) / (o---tii-o) (O=00=O) / (D D) Mark Weaver - Brewer on the Loose - : headbrewer at juno.com or MDWBrewer at aol.com Please Respond Direct >Wise Ones! >I want to make a rye beer with 8 pounds Klages and 4 pounds rye malt? >What would be the best way to mash it? I understand that I'll need a >good book and some brews handy, but I don't want to be at this all >night. Any suggestions? >Sheena Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 29 Nov 1997 02:56:55 -0800 From: headbrewer at juno.com (Mark D Weaver) Subject: Buena Noche Metallic flavour Hi all, Thought I might ask this on here. A family member recently purchased two cases of Buena Noche (a "bock" produced by Dos Equis, a darker beer with almost the same flavour as regular Dos Equis, I think they add chocolate or black patent to get the colour due to the flavour profile). When consumed out of the bottle it tastes fine. When poured in a glass (any glass) it developes a metallic flavour. It isn't soap or anything (washed and rinsed the glasses very well using regular hand dishwashing soap as well as other glasses from the dishwasher). Might this by a reaction to O2 when the beer is poured? Or some other chemical reaction? Maybe it should it only be served in plastic? Kidding.... Thanks, please reply direct. Sante, Mark (O=00=O) / (o---tii-o) (O=00=O) / (D D) Mark Weaver - Brewer on the Loose - : headbrewer at juno.com or HeadBrewer at eci.com (the H and B must be in caps!) Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 29 Nov 1997 09:51:00 -0500 (EST) From: Joe Rolfe <onbc at shore.net> Subject: yeast - how to tell who is who... whilst attending siebels, Dr Joe Power found these commercially available tubes of various sugars, a sample would be drawn thru and in several days you would be able to tell what sugars the "beast" could deal with...kinda neat toy but probably expensive for homebrewers. anyone know of these devices?? not sure if they were ever successful in commercial applications or not.... another option to determine the beast or atleast notice them, is a giant colony plating. you need to dilute the hell out of the sample, such that you will have very few cells per ml and plate on a good media (pick one) that has good longevity....the cells colony will be quite charactized by the shape and speed of growth. this takes practice and good note keeping. but after some time you'll be able to pick out your favorites with good accuracy. care must be take to insure the plate does not dry out, before the end of the process.. good luck joe Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 29 Nov 1997 11:19:59 -0500 From: "David R. Burley" <Dave_Burley at compuserve.com> Subject: Rye Beer, Brewsters: Sheens McGrath says: >I want to make a rye beer with 8 pounds Klages and 4 pounds rye malt? >What would be the best way to mash it? I suggest you also use some dark crystal malt - about a pound. The biggest problem is that the rye has a lot of gelatinous glucans in it and I heartily recommend a a 105 F beta-glucanase mash for 30 minutes, a 122F protein/glucnase mash for 15 minutes, 135F MMW protein for 30 minutes and then to 158F with hot water for 90 minutes. It is a MUST to mash out at 170F = or so. Even so, the viscosity of the wort will be high and it is negatively logaritmically dependent on the temperature - the reason most mashes stick. The trick is to keep the wort temperature and the bed temperature UP . Using my two pass crush method I have a very free running lauter, so I just drain all the wort off in a couple of minutes at full open without re-cycling, put it in a kettle and start to heat it back to 170F. If you historically= don't have such a quick draining mash, then mix in rice hulls ( HB store can supply them) in the mash at the beginning of the = mash to make sure you remove all the starch from them. = In the meantime, sparge the grainbed with a little water around 180F on top and then add the hot 170F wort back to clarify it and proceed to remove the clarified wort and sparge = with extra hot 180F water. If you held for 90 minutes at 158F you will not have a starch problem. This unorthodox method works so well you will hardly know you are working with rye and the beer will be excellent with good color, clarity and mouthfeel as many have attested to. I have even made a wheat/rye beer this way without a stuck mash and gotten recoveries in the 90's as always. Keep on brewin' Dave Burley Kinnelon, NJ 07405 103164.3202 at compuserve.com Dave_Burley at compuserve.com = Voice e-mail OK = Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 29 Nov 1997 09:30:06 -0700 From: brewshop at coffey.com (Jeff Sturman) Subject: cp filling help Denis Barsalo asks about counter pressure filling and I think I have a few suggestions that may help. First, 18 psi seems pretty high. I've only dealt with two different cp fillers and both seemed to work best at between 6 and 10 psi. What brand and type of cp filler is it? I would guess it should be run at lower pressure which should help alleviate the foaming problem. And yes, cold bottles are recommended. The colder the better. I sanitize my bottles, cover them with sanitized beer caps, and let the bottles sit in the garage for at least 30 minutes prior to filling (I only cp fill during the winter months.) A side by side test with warm and cold bottles proved to me that cold bottles make a big difference in foamage avoidance. It was unclear in your post whether or not you purge the bottle before filling, but purging is important. After you open the co2 gas valve on the filler and pressure the bottle with co2, open the release valve and let the co2 bleed through the bottle for 4 to 5 seconds, then close the release valve and continue as you described in your post. This will purge the bottle, removing most of the fresh air and replacing it with co2. Filling takes a big chunk of my time. I fill maybe one bottle every 2 to 3 minutes, including filling, capping, cleaning and sanitizing. I only cp fill in the winter in my garage when the temperature is way below freezing. This keeps the whole cp filling system very cold, as well as the beer, which reduces foaming. I'm sure the cold, dry Wyoming air is also quite unfriendly to unwanted beasties. I keep a spray bottle of everclear on hand to occasionally squirt the filler, table, bottle necks, bottle caps, etc. If this sounds like a pita, it is. But I only cp fill beers that I feel are exceptional, and those bottles go to competitions only, or maybe a few to celebrate a special occassion. And I am always careful not to spill the beer on myself lest my long johns will freeze to me. A few other tips: 1) Filling the same style bottles makes the process go quicker. Many bottle sizes are out there. The differences in heigth require you to adjust the stopper on the cp filler which can be a pain. 2) Invite a friend to help. CP filling is a three handed process. 3) If the beer foams too much you must drink the spillage from the release valve. The first beer I ever cp filled was a barleywine with lots of spillage. I didn't feel very well the next morning... 4) The biggest improvement I made to my process is moving it to the garage and keeping everything ice cold. I get very little foam and I was able to increase the pressure, thus the speed of filling. 5) Keep the CP spotless. I disassemble mine before each session and give it a thorough cleaning with B brite, then a soak in iodophor. jeff casper, wy current temp: 21 F at 8 am Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 29 Nov 1997 11:34:26 -0600 From: TomL at ednet.rvc.cc.il.us (Tom Lombardo) Subject: coffee stout Happy post-Thanksgiving. I've seen a few Q's about coffee stout, so I thought I'd throw in my recipe. This was a Chocolate-Coffee-Oatmeal Stout, which I called "Basic 4", since it covers the basic 4 food groups. It was an extract+specialty batch, in which I didn't mash the oatmeal (cuz I didn't know any better at the time, but now I do). In any event, it turned out good, but I probably will skip the chocolate next time. for 5 gallons: 6.6 lbs Northwest Gold M.E. 0.5 lb. Crystal malt (~40L) 0.5 lb. Roasted Barley 0.25 lb. chocolate malt 1 lb flaked oats 3 oz. Malto-dextrine powder 2 cups decaf coffee, brewed 2 oz. bitter bakers chocolate (unsweetened) 1 oz. northern brewer hops 1 pkg yeast labs austrailian ale yeast (dry) Don't boil the coffee - add it after the boil, as you would aroma hops. This beer required a lot of aging in the bottle. After a month, the chocolateyness was overwhelming. After a few months, it mellowed and the coffee became noticable. Overall, a worthwhile experiment, but I probably won't do it again (I prefer a more traditional stout). Go easy on the hops, because the coffee and baker's chocolate will add bitterness. There were a few "floaters" of chocolate in the bottles - couldn't get rid of them, but they did no harm. BTW, I jus got Al K's new book, "Homebrewing Volume 1". I wish it had existed a few years ago. Great book! (#include <disclaimer.std>) Now that I've just started all-grain, I'm looking forward to "Volume 2". When's it due, Al? Tom Lombardo (In Rockford, Illinois) "I never met a stout I didn't like." - TL Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 29 Nov 1997 12:39:03 -0600 From: Paul Kensler <pkensler at ix.netcom.com> Subject: RE: Cranberry useage questions Chris asked: "I am asking for some advice. Have any of you had success with using cranberries in a beer?" Chris, Yes, I have used cranberries in beer before, and will be brewing my annual cranberry beer next Monday. I use an American Wheat (1.045 OG, 17 IBU) all-grain recipe as the base. Here's my procedures and notes: Amount: Previously, I made a 5-gallon batch, and split the beer in half - one half with cranberries, the other half without. For this amount, I used 2) 12 oz. bags of fresh cranberries. Monday, I will be doing my first 10-gallon batch on a RIMS system at the local homebrew store (Thanks, Jack!) and plan on using 6) 12 oz. bags for one half of the batch (5 - 5.5 gallons). Generally, about 1) 12 oz. bag per gallon of beer. One of these days, I want to try an addition of RW Knudsen's "Just Cranberry" juice (unsweetened, no preservatives). Preparation: Soak the fresh, unfrozen cranberries in a weak Iodophor solution for 5-10 min., stirring the cranberries often to submerge the floaters. Pick out any shriveled or rotten berries. Strain the berries and place in zip-lock bags, and put in freezer. Usage: I remove the cranberries a day or so before adding them to the secondary fermenter, to let them defrost in the fridge. Once defrosted, I lightly crush them (just enough to break the skins) while still in the ziplock bags. After primary fermentation, I dump the berries into the secondary (plastic bucket) and rack the beer on top of them. Secondary fermentation lasts about a week, so after 10 days I rack the beer into a tertiary vessel for final clearing. Bottle and prime as usual. Result: Beer turns out almost orange / copper in color, with a pale pink head. Sour/tartness of the cranberries is evident, slight fruity addition to the aroma. The cranberry beer always seems to have a better head than the "regular" half of the batch, maybe because of the additional fermentable sugars, resulting in slightly higher carbonation. I have not had any problems with infections or pectin haze with this procedure - cranberries are really pretty easy to deal with. I have used other fruit before (mostly peaches), and always end up with a really bad pectin haze whenever I "blanche" them in boiling water. Given that the cranberries are so smooth and firm when fresh, I think a good Iodophor soak would work best for them. Hope this helps, Paul Kensler Brewing with berries in Plano, TX Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 29 Nov 1997 10:54:04 -0800 From: "Grant W. Knechtel" <GWK at hartcrowser.com> Subject: Bubblegum & Wyeast 2124 In HBD 2570 Jeff Renner writes about getting bubblegum flavor after primary ferment of a CAP with Wyeast 2124: >I'm not ready to draw a conclusion about fermenting 2124 at 56F on the >basis of one trial, but I don't think I'll do it again. I did it this >time because I wanted to save a few days. Just a data point, used 2124 for my first lager, a CAP, ferment started at 57 degrees for one day then 8 days at 54 degrees before racking to secondary. This was great beer, especially for a first lager. No hint of bubblegum. Love that "Your Father's Mustache" recipe, BTW. -Grant Neue Des Moines Hausbrauerei Des Moines, Washington Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 29 Nov 1997 13:56:01 -0500 From: i.brew2 at juno.com Subject: POINT ME TO REC.CRAFTS.BREWING I just got internet service, but I can't seem to get to the good newsgroups. I found an address for an open server, but when I request rec.crafts.brewing I get a message saying that this group is not stored on that server and it has to download from another location. Downloads never seem to occur. All the smut and trash groups download fine :-( Can anyone suggest a news server address, that doesn't require an account, which stores such groups as rec. crafts.brewing, alt.brewing, etc? Private E Mail best. Thanks! Dave Blaine I.Brew2 at Juno.Com Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 29 Nov 1997 19:24:35 -0800 From: smurman at best.com Subject: homebrew cooking - lamb carbonade and steak fries Well, we've made bread and mustard, but now it's time to cook something a little more substantial. Something capable of soaking up large volumes of homebrew. Carbonade is a Flemish word I believe, and probably translates to something like "charred flesh". In practice, it resembles good ol' Yankee stew. The best part of this dish to me is the steak fries slathered in sauce, but before we get there we need to make the carbonade sauce. Start with 3/4 - 1 lb. of diced lamb. You can use beef if you prefer, but I think lamb works best. If you do use beef I'd recommend getting a good cut of meat like sirloin tips rather than beef chuck (aka stew meat). If you use beef chuck it will take hours to tenderize it, and even then it probably won't be that great. 1/2 white onion sliced/diced. In a corningware-type pot on the stovetop brown the onions and meat with some salt and pepper over medium heat until all the meat has been browned. Turn down the heat and add 12 - 16 oz. of beer and cover. You want to use a good strong ale for this recipe - no light pilseners here. The classic would be a Saison or Oud Bruin. Add enough beer to cover the meat. Don't add too much beer because we're going to reduce what's left and use it to make the sauce. Nobody wants wimpy, runny sauce. Simmer this covered on the stovetop until it's done:) Let it go at least 1 hour. When you're ready, remove the meat from the beer/sauce and set aside. Turn up the heat and mix in 1 - 2 tbsp. of flour. Reduce this down until it makes a nice sauce. If you've ever made a rou, this is basically what your doing now. When the sauce looks good, add the meat back and warm it up. That's it. Serve the meat with sauce spooned over top. Now for the fries. While the meat is simmering, cut 1 baking potato into steak fry sized pieces (about 2 inch by 1/2 inch by 1/4 inch). Soak these in warm water for about 10 minutes. Remove them from the water and put them in a baking dish. Preheat the oven to 450F. Drizzle olive oil over the fries and toss them so that both the baking dish and the fries have a little coating. Season them well with black pepper and garlic salt. (Hint: experiment with chopped garlic). Cook these in the oven for 30 minutes, turning once at the halfway point. Serve with the carbonade, and be sure to use them to clean up every last bit of sauce. This will serve two people lightly (with salad and another veggie it'll be a meal), or one person well. Serve with a good hearty ale. Bon appetit, SM Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 29 Nov 1997 15:20:23 -0500 From: "Pat Babcock" <pbabcock at oeonline.com> Subject: re: Buena Noche Metallic Flavor Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your lager... headbrewer at juno.com (Mark D Weaver) writes of Buena Noche Metallic flavour... > Thought I might ask this on here. A family member recently purchased > two cases of Buena Noche (a "bock" produced by Dos Equis, a darker Um, no. It is a seasonal oscura Graf-style vienna beer. It is brewed for the Chrismas season > beer with almost the same flavour as regular Dos Equis, I think they > add chocolate or black patent to get the colour due to the flavour > profile). When consumed out of the bottle it tastes fine. When > poured in a glass (any glass) it developes a metallic flavour. I've noticed this as well - a distinctly tin-can flavor. Since the beer is brewed for the Christmas season, and I've never managed to acquire a fresh sample of the beer (and since George and Laurie Fix speak so highly of it in Marzen, Oktoberfest and Vienna, I've always attributed this to be some sort of aging reaction - paricularly since most references (all I've read) attribute metallic off flavors to contact with uncoated metallic - ferrous, specifically - surfaces or compounds. Like with Oly, maybe it's the water. Never drank it out of the bottle to compare as I've always been taught that to drink from the bottle is an insult to the brewer... If anyone DOES have the answer, contrary to Mark's request, please post it here to the Digest. I'm interested, too! See ya! Pat Babcock (About 20 miles east and to the south of Jeff Renner) See ya! Pat Babcock in SE Michigan pbabcock at oeonline.com Home Brew Digest Janitor janitor@hbd.org AOL FDN Beer & Brewing Maven BrewBeerd at aol.com Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 29 Nov 1997 15:21:13 -0800 From: headbrewer at juno.com (Mark D Weaver) Subject: re: Buena Noche Metallic Flavor Pat, >Um, no. It is a seasonal oscura Graf-style vienna beer. It is brewed >for the Chrismas season Actually, the label calls it a German bock, however it might not be as true to the bock style.... >I've notied this as well - a distincly tin-can flavor. Since the beer >is brewed for the Christmas season, and I've never managed to acquire >a fresh sample of the beer (and since George and Laurie Fix speak so >highly of it in Marzen, Oktoberfest and Vienna, I've always >attributed this to be some sort of aging reaction - paricularly >since most references (all I've read) attribute metallic off flavors >to contact with uncoated metallic - ferrous, specifically - surfaces >or compounds. Liek with Oly, maybe it's the water. True. Are the bottle caps up to par? ;-) I have to admit, I have never had a fresh Dos Equis "regular" (I live in CT), but the ones I have had also had a metallic flavour. Maybe it is a charateristic of the water or the brewery equipment (?) >Never drank it out of the bottle to compare as I've always been taught that to drink from the bottle is an insult to the brewer... I agree with you, but sometimes when a beer is offered to you in the middle of a field when you are mowing the lawn, the only other alternative is to drink it out of your hand..... Maybe someone who knows a little more about Cerveceria Cuauhtemoc Moctezuma can shed some light.... Regards, Mark (O=00=O) / (o---tii-o) (O=00=O) / (D D) Mark Weaver - Brewer on the Loose - : headbrewer at juno.com or AwfulQuiet at aol.com Return to table of contents
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