HOMEBREW Digest #2632 Mon 09 February 1998

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		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com

  Keg Lube (GordonRick)
  Norvig yeast (smurman)
  re: temp control + moldy taps & drip pan ("C.D. Pritchard")
  re: The HBD Pale Ale Experiment ("Michel J. Brown")
  butt-jelly revisited... ("Pat Babcock")
  Growing Hops in the Heat (WayneM38)
  That there queue.... ("Pat Babcock")
  Viscosity and Sparging ("David R. Burley")
  Submarine Brewing (stealth)
  kick-starting yeast (Heiner Lieth)
  Fermenting BIG ales (Jon Bovard)
  Re: Iceland, anyone (hdavis)
  Beer In The News ("Rob Moline")
  Kitchen  malting  questions. (Clifton Moore)
  mashout & extraction efficiency (Domenick Venezia)
  Re: Computerized Fridge Controller (Dave Thayer)
  Chloramine ("Martin Brown")
  South Pole Brewing (John Mitchell)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 00:45:48 EST From: GordonRick at aol.com Subject: Keg Lube For what it's worth, I've heard that they sell an O-ring lubricant (food grade) in scuba shops that works great. Agree that vaseline is a no-go. NG vs. LP gas question - I snagged the burner off an old gas water heater with the intention of someday using it as a second burner for my Brinkman LP cooker set-up. Probably not a great idea given the difference in jet sizes etc. Am I OK to (someday) hook into the NG line to my grill with this burner (assuming I get the correct gas fittings etc)? For the new, time challenged, or just plain lazy folk out there - as a "grainer", I am ashamed to admit it, but I recently tried one of the Brew House all grain pre-boiled beer in a box kits. (add water, yeast and wait). I needed something quick while the Czech Pils lagers. If you have lots of $$$ and little time, it seems to be pretty good quality concentrated wort (not extract) and extremely easy to make. A little light on the hops, but a nice malty, clean taste. It does take all the fun out of brewing so I won't go there again - it left me feeling like a beer slut or something. Ugh! Prost! Rick Gordon Beer - It's not just for breakfast anymore! Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 06 Feb 1998 22:59:22 -0800 From: smurman at best.com Subject: Norvig yeast I braved El Nino (did anyone see us on CNN?) and went to the local beer supermarket (aka heaven) for a sampler run. I came across two products from England; the Norvig Ale and the something-something Porter (which I didn't buy). Both of them are supposedly fermented with unique yeasts. The Norvig Ale yeast is supposedly obtained from an old Norwegian farm wooden spoon handed down from generation to generation. Being the yeast rancher that I am, I swirled one of the bottles, and lo and behold sediment. White gold. Anybody know if the primary strain is in the bottle? Anybody tried to brew anything with it? I've heard talk of this strain, and supposedly in the lab it was found to be robust, bordering on the occult. SM Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 07 Feb 1998 07:37:06 From: "C.D. Pritchard" <cdp at chattanooga.net> Subject: re: temp control + moldy taps & drip pan Chris Smith posted re: the use of Dallas chips for temp. control. The DS1820 is intriguing since it can function as a "set and forget" thermostat if you use the 16 pin SMT (surface mount technology = tiny!) package. The 3 pin, transitor like package is much easier to use mechanically, but you loose the the control output. A work-around is the DS2407 addressable switch which can reside on the same 1-wire network used with the DS1820s or the cheaper DS1620s. The software to run the network from a computer is doable if one leans toward "geekness". If not, Dallas app. note 104 describes a demo board and windoze software for playing with these gizmos. One reported (via the net- take with grain of salt) downside to the DS1820 is that in a high humidity enviroment, the temp. response drifts. Baking them and then coating is said to eliminate the problem. - - - - - Jens B. Jorgensen wanted to use a PC for controlling the temp of his beer fridge. I don't like leaving a PC on all the time. Best bet IMHO is a Basic Stamp II from Parallax ( http://www.parallaxinc.com/ - no connecting, ect.). Briefly: $49 computer-on-a-chip. All of the programming software and docs. are free via the net. Programs in Basic. 16 I/O lines- that can do serial comm. with a PC (e.g. use the PC for operator interface and turn it off when it's not needed), reads resistances directly (e.g. thermistors), can control appliances over 120VAC power lines with Radio Shack X-10 control modules, does touch tone dialing, as well as regular digital I/O. I use one for controlling a RIMS + HLT (details via URL in sig. line) and a wort boiler and another for controlling a heater and a cooling fan in a fermenter chamber. - - - - - Alas, instead of attending Seibels like Rob and George, I frequent the BSOHK (brewing school of hard knocks). Here's the latest lesson and some a question: The brew dispensed from kegs in the fridge developed a horrid taste and smell. Turns out my recently started practice of hanging the cobra taps upright in the fridge and not draining them well was a bad idea- each tap had a chunk of mold growing in the discharge snout. It was amazing how such a small amount of mold could throw such an taste and smell. It's too bad hops aren't as effective... After cleaning the taps, the bad taste and smell disappeared. I'm back to again to hanging the taps upside down over a drip pan. Now the mold grows on the drip pan rather than the taps. What the best method for preventing mold growth in taps and on drip pans? I know beer line cleaners exist, but there's got to be a less PITA was. Private posts are fine- I'll post a summary if there's sufficient info. Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 00:56:56 -0800 From: "Michel J. Brown" <homemade at spiritone.com> Subject: re: The HBD Pale Ale Experiment >I would like to see a bunch of us brew a beer from the same recipe. We could all agree to use >the same grains, hops and yeast and then submit them to the same contest for evaluation. Nice thought, but I have a small fly to dabble in your ointment John :-) >We would all use our standard brewing techniques, water and equipment. Well, then, please define what you mean by "standard brewing techniques, water and equipment". From what I've read here in the HBD, EVERYBODY has standards, and they're all *different*. Even water varies from locale to locale. While I think the basic premise has merit, the footing is anything BUT equal imho. >We could then see how each of the systems we use fair. It would >also be fun to flood a contest with almost identical brews. Maybe we could >even get the contest picked to make a category just for the experiment. Now there's an idea -- make a contest of all the same recipe, and all the same style, but leave the creative expression to the brewer. this would even things up a bit. Even for my *VERY* soft water area (I even have to add calcium chloride to harden my water to make a PU clone :-/) >The recipe given in BT was 74.5% pale ale, 15% crystal, 10% munich, and .5% >chocolate to an OG of 1056-1060 mashed at 154F, with 40 ibus coming from 2 >additions of Columbus at 60 & 30 mins with 2 additions of Cascade at 15 & 0 >mins at a rate of 5 oz per barrel (.8 oz in 5 gallons). While this sounds more like an American Amber Ale to me, the hopping rate is way too high for the stated IBU's imho. If you mean 0.2 oz each, then you're at around 28 IBU's; however, if you mean 0.8 oz each addition, then you're around 85 IBU's. To get 40 IBU's from the hop bill you suggested, and at equal weights, would require ~0.35 oz each addition (based upon 1997 crop AA% and Tinseth's formulation). Still, a worthy, and worthwhile attempt imho. >So anyone game? I'll toss my hat in the ring *provided* we use realistic grain and hop bills. The grain bill looks a little heavy for an American Pale Ale imho, but pretty close to an American Amber Ale. But the hop bill is quite another story -- it's just plain wrong, or at least poorly stated at best. What with Columbus at 15.4% AA and Cascades at 7.5%AA, the hop bill looks either too light or too heavy, depending on how you interpret the "additions". What is needed is a standard recipe, including yeast, that we can all agree on -- then, and only then will water, and mash methodology become the transient variables. My procedures and processes are consistent across recipes, and within the same recipe made serially, so this is really the only test that makes sense of the contest. >(We'll see how RIMS out preforms single infusion kettle mashing once and for all!). Theoretically, you shouldn't be able to taste the difference, all other things being equal. As I stated above, the only two remaining uncontrolled variables are water and procedural methods (given that we will all use the same kind of grains from the same maltsters, and the same hops from the same growers/vendors). Then you will have meaningful results, right? >How long have we had a Sunday digest? Hmm, since last Sunday ;-7 Dr. Michel J. Brown, D.C. {Portland, OR} homemade at spiritone.com http://www.spiritone.com/~homemade/index.html "Big Man don't drink no stinking light beer!" "Big Man drink beer what got BIG TASTE!" Big Man Brewing (R) 1996 Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 12:19:19 -0500 From: "Pat Babcock" <pbabcock at oeonline.com> Subject: butt-jelly revisited... Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your lager... In private conversation, Brian Wurst <brian at mail.netwave.net> said... > P.S. - I've used Vaseline(tm) as a tank lid sealant for something on > the order of 170 keggings and the gaskets are just fine...perhaps > your swimming pool filter gasket material is a lower grade (or > completely different) material than the food grade stuff in corny > keg gaskets? This is going to sound horribly untechnical, but it DOES seem to work just fine on the black o-rings (such as the bung cover - heh! Butt jelly! Bung! Snicker!). Those red, green and orangish-tan ones swell up and get all gummy. Don't know if they are synthetic or what, but that's been my experience. (And the pool cover ring is one o' them orangish-tan ones...) See ya! -p Somwhere right near Jeff Renner... See ya! Pat Babcock in SE Michigan pbabcock at oeonline.com Home Brew Digest Janitor janitor@hbd.org AOL FDN Beer & Brewing Maven BrewBeerd at aol.com Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 13:54:31 EST From: WayneM38 at aol.com Subject: Growing Hops in the Heat << Bottom line - HOPS DON'T GROW WELL IN THE SOUTH. With a lot of work it can be done, but I doubt commercially. >> <<I would really like to see some Yr2K Gregor Mendel come along and crossbreed hops with the mighty kudzu vine! If you have never seen kudzu, Its like ivy with a foot per day attitude - old barns turn into large green lumps in a matter of weeks, and you can not kill it! Any hophead botonists out there up to the challenge?>> I am a brewer/botanist and agree with the bottom line stated above. I supervise a Horticultural Conservatory at 42' lattitude. Hops grow outside very well here but similar plants cannot take the summer heat under glass when we try them indoors during the summer months. Any way I would not want to be the infamous botanist to unleash another species of kudzu onto the world!!! Wayne Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 14:10:06 -0500 From: "Pat Babcock" <pbabcock at oeonline.com> Subject: That there queue.... Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your lager... As anyone who has recently posted or checked queue length can attest, Spring has sprung - at least in terms of the ol' 'gest. The once humongous queue is now quite puny. In order to moderate the queue length to ensure we, your faithful janitorial staff, get a whack at incoming articles in our ever-continuing quest to ensure the spam-free environment you all have come to know and love (my, but this is going to be a long sentence!), we will begin "modulating" weekend deliveries. "Huh? Whatchoosay?" This means that we will turn on and off Saturday delivery in an attempt to keep the queue at roughly one day (probably less). Won't monkey around with Mon-Fri, and may even turn Sunday back on once in a while, but if you don't receive a Digest on Saturday, DON'T PANIC! It's just the janitors messing around on Olympus - er - the server. Oh! And: Have a nice day... See ya! Pat Babcock in SE Michigan pbabcock at oeonline.com Home Brew Digest Janitor janitor@hbd.org AOL FDN Beer & Brewing Maven BrewBeerd at aol.com Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 15:47:57 -0500 From: "David R. Burley" <Dave_Burley at compuserve.com> Subject: Viscosity and Sparging Brewsters: First let me thank all those people who commented to me,sympathized with me, and supported me on how to handle this ridiculous problem spacing problem. If Sam Mize is as good and observer as I think he is, this will come out without unwanted line spacing. Fingers and toes crossed I'll try again. The line length problem is a hard/software problem with which I'm also getting some expert help. Thanks. - ---------------------------------------- I have received several e-letters with questions and see that Dominick Venezia doesn't yet buy my viscosity vs solubility argument for the reason a mashout and a high sparge temperature give better efficiency. A couple of comments 1) Sugar is more soluble ( a thermodynamic function) at higher temperatures but when it is completely dissolved it doesn't make any difference 2) sugar does go into solution faster ( a kinetic function) but again if it is all dissolved that doesn't make any difference either. As I commented the other day sugar solubility at the temperature we work at is much higher than that found in wort. So solubility is not an issue here. Ken Schwartz in his excellent work on batch sparging coincidentally found out that the wort concentration in the body of the grain is higher than in the bulk wort outside the grain immediately after mashing. I believe this observation demonstrates that the wort trapped in the capillaries of the grain is slow to equilibrate with the bulk wort and is consistent with the observation that a slow sparge gives a higher total recovery of sugars than a fast sparge. So I conclude that the efficiency is a kinetic phenomenon not a thermodynamic one like solubility. Here's how I explained it to one of my private correspondents: He said: > If the problem was an exponential increase in viscosity such as you suggest, > then the flow rate would be self-limiting i.e. it would slow down to the > point where you can't get a higher flow rate........ On my lauter-tun, I know I can drain as fast as my 1/2 inch > ball valve allows, BUT I will get poor extraction if I sparge too fast. Don't confuse draining around the grains ( which you are talking about) and the flow out of the capillaries in the grain (which is what I'm talking about). he continues: >......... it should then be possible to dump the "proper" amount of sparge water > into the tun, wait for sugar dissolution and then sparge. Why did brewers > develop a continuous flow system instead??? Well think about it for a minute. If the solubility of the sugar is not the limiting factor imagine the case where you put in say a gallon or so of water into a just drained bed of mashed grain in your lauter. Assume for this example that the grain holds a gallon of water also and that the SG of the wort in the grains is the same as the bulk wort. Now allow it to stand there until it comes to equilibrium - say an hour or so. drain off the sparged wort. You will find that this recently drained gallon will have exactly half the sugar concentration of the original wort drained off. It's like you added a gallon of water to a gallon of the original wort which was inside the grains. Agree? Now you can calculate how much that "proper" amount of water to do it this way really is. Assume you are happy with a 90% recovery. When you drain the lauter after the mash you will have 50% of the sugar in this example. After the second you will have 75%. After the third you will have 87% and After the fourth you will have 93%. Now remember that in a typical 5 gallon brew you will have about 3 gallons of first wort so this means you may have to have around 15 gallons of wort to boil down. If you just dump it in all at once the amount is even greater. I suggest you go back and read Ken Schwartz' work for some real numbers on this rather than rely on this hypothetical example. = Now imagine a situation where you are constantly supplying fresh water at the top of the column and drawing off the bottom as is common in continuous or "on-the-fly" sparging. The uppermost portion of the column will be constantly leaching into pure water and not coming to equilibrium. This is a faster method since as you approach equilibrium in the first case the equilibration between the grain capillaries and the bulk wort goes slower and slower with less of a driving force. In the second example the grain capillary is always draining into a lower concentration. Of course, in the real world the wort SG in the grains is often higher than in the bulk wort since it hasn't come to equilibrium when you start sparging and a high viscosity (both the higher SG and other viscous components) wort slows down this equilibration so this makes a slow sparge even more necessary. As you may recall it is often stated as fact that a high OG brew is less efficient. This is one of the reasons ( the other relates to sugars interfering with the enzymes). For these high OG brews the sparge should be slower to improve the efficiency. = = Keep on brewin' Dave Burley Kinnelon, NJ 07405 103164.3202 at compuserve.com Dave_Burley at compuserve.com = Voice e-mail OK = Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 13:55:29 MST From: stealth <stealth at swlink.net> Subject: Submarine Brewing Rob Moline asked to hear more; > The simple answer is yes you can brew on a submarine. :) >the largest problem to overcome is that all the air is recirculated and the >"Brewery Aroma" quickly premeates the entire boat. :( > Now, here is a diversion I would love to hear more about!! This post >from <stealth> would seem to imply that there have been some attempts, >perhaps illicit, to brew at some depth? Please tell us more! Even just >as stories that "may have occurred." The Lack of time has finally abated.. At least temporarily. :) Anywho as for brewing on a submarine at some depth, I can only say a depth of something in excess of 400 feet. I will state That I have no first hand knowledge of this being done. That's my story and I'm sticking to it. I have heard of some attempts to brew underway and under water. As I said previously the distinctive aroma is a dead give away.... Even those who do not recognize it usually want to find the source of such a smell in short order. Electric heaters and a creative hood/venting system passing though some type of filter/precipitator and the concurrent addition of other very aromatic chemicals in other parts of the boat is said to have made it possible to do partial batch boiling. Water on subs comes from onboard distilling units and as such it is very pure and bland. I can see where the knowledge of the HBD and the addition of water conditioning salts may have helped these fellows to make better beer. Another problem is that the atmospheric pressure can and often does under go rapid extremes. This makes the use of typical airlocks very hazardous. After running at a slight vacuum for awhile going up to the surface to get a gulp of fresh air will cause a sudden increase in pressure and suck what ever is in the airlock into the beer. Also starting up the diesel inboard creates a sudden large vacuum which tends to blow out anything in the airlock. I have been told that the best thing to do was just to loosely cover and hope for the best. Another hazard run into was the infamous "angles and dangles". This is when a sub radically changes course and depth. Kind of like an airplane changing altitude and turning at the same time. I was told that more then one batch had splashed out of its vessel. An emergency blow cold wreck havoc on any beer waiting to be consumed. Also most of the beers were said to be of a type which did not require much aging. As typically they would be brewed fermented and drank within 90 days. I was stationed on subs in the early 80's when I heard these stories. I do not remember if it was even legal to make homebrew at that time. but if it was the equipment and knowledge would have been primative by todays standards. Anything done on a ship at sea would have been even more so. Whether the stories of brewing are sea tales or not I can neither confirm nor deny. :) ********************************************************************* OS/2 Warped out of this world! Unite for Java! - http://www.javalobby.org ********************************************************************* Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 13:48:13 -0800 (PST) From: Heiner Lieth <lieth at telis.org> Subject: kick-starting yeast In HBD 2631 "John Lifer, jr" <jliferjr at misnet.com> wrote >I got a pack of Wyeast 3056 >Bavarian yeast a while back, oops, Oct 97 date. Has been two days and >no activity in pack >at all. I know it should take 4 days or so,... Others also posted regarding peculiar starter behavior. Here is a tip for what it's worth. I've come across a way to kick start liquid yeast. The cable converter box on my TV is a constant, relatively warm temperature (80-90F), whether it is "on" or not. When I start a Wyeast pack I pop the inside pouch as per instructions, gently shake it up, and then lay it on the cable converter box. I always get significantly faster pouch-inflation (even on badly-outdated packs) since doing this (and no, it's not due to warmer air needing more room - if you cool the pouch after this, it's still just as inflated). Once I step it up to a starter, I set that on top of the same converter box. This gets the bottom of the bottle (i.e. where the ramaining dormant cells reside) warm; the rest is at room temperature. I have not tried this with true lager yeasts, mostly Ale yeast, Koelsch yeast and Califonia Common. This has also had an additional unanticipated effect. When the TV watchers in my family see the stuff on the converter box they know that I'll be brewing soon. The get used to the idea and complain a lot less about the odor and mess. Hey, two tips for the price of one. Heiner Lieth Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 09 Feb 1998 19:06:44 +1100 From: Jon Bovard <j.bovard at student.qut.edu.au> Subject: Fermenting BIG ales The Wyeast product specification sheet designates yeast strains for big beers, eg Barley wines , strong ales etc. However they seem to be in preferance for flavour profiles and not alcohol tolerances. what experience has anyone with the alcohol and attenuation of the following. I plan to ferment a 1.095 Barley wine with a high mash temp 70C (159f) profile. Wyeast suggest Scottish ale 1728, but will it handle that level alcohol. (it DOES have high floculation) Any data on the following, with respect to alcohol tolerance (barley wine suitability much appreciated) *1028 London *1056 American *1728 Scottish *1098 British *1725 Thames Valley Many thanks JB Brisbane, Australia Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 11:31:53 -0600 (CST) From: hdavis at ix.netcom.com Subject: Re: Iceland, anyone > >From: Richard Gardner <rgardner at papillion.ne.us> >Subject: Iceland, anyone? / AB ads for freshness > >area the size of Kentucky? I live in a town of 400K today, with 2 brewpub, >but over 100 beers availble). I have found out that until 10 years ago beer >was illegal (but hard booze OK, huh?). I think that if you go back far enough in their history, they stopped brewing due to the inability to grow enough crops for beer and eating too. So, as I'm told, booze cam in ships. Distilled liquors take less room. So, it makes a sort of sense. My general questions are: > - Is homebrewing legal - or would I have to bootleg? My wife was there last summer. Her professor home brewed and indicated that it was only recently OK to do so. BTW, she also said that although it was against the law to be drunken in public, the Icelandic police pretty much just helped the drunks home if they needed it. Henry Henry Davis Consulting, Inc / new product consulting PO Box 1270 / product readiness reviews Soquel, Ca 95073 / IP reviews ph: (408) 462-5199 / full service marketing fax: (408) 462-5198 http:\\www.henry-davis.com Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 11:46:34 -0600 From: "Rob Moline" <brewer at ames.net> Subject: Beer In The News Beer In The News...... A good past week or so for Brew in the News. John MacDonald of Boulevard presented his side of the Missouri debate over labeling in a clear, concise and calm interview on National Public Radio on 1.31.98, I think. Hair of the Dog brewing of Portland, Oregon was featured in the Marketplace section on 2.2.98, in a story on "Fred the Beer," a product that was recognized by the Wall Street Journal article as going against the popularly aired 'wisdom' that any beer over a couple of months old is unfit. Fred Eckardt and the Oregon Brew Crew homebrew club were also mentioned. And in the February issue of Esquire, the one with O.J. on the cover proclaiming his prediction to 'get it all back in spades,' (please, Lord!) is a great tale of international diplomacy, travel, intrigue and lederhosen as Cal Fussman constructs a showdown between Affligem Tripel, Budvar, and Pilsner Urquell. A great story, and one that will aid our quest of getting the word to the masses, and in this case I'm sure, a great demographic group of beer drinkers that there is more than one style in the world. A fun story, too! Cheers! Rob Moline Brewer Court Avenue Brewing Company Des Moines, Iowa brewer at ames.net Ames, Iowa. "The More I Know About Beer, The More I Realize I Need To Know More About Beer!" Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 08 Feb 1998 10:18:24 -0900 From: Clifton Moore <cmoore at gi.alaska.edu> Subject: Kitchen malting questions. Kitchen malting questions. What is considered an acceptable germination rate and how synchronous must it be? I am playing with a few varieties of barley. Ideally, all the grains would start germinating simultaneously, and reach full modification stage at the same time. That is that the acrospire on all the grains would grow to between 60% & 90% the seed length at the same time. This is just not the case here in the real world. While I have at times gotten 75% germination, the stage is all over the place having started over a range of maybe 24 hrs. So some seeds are over modified by a great deal, while others have yet to reach full modification. What might I try to induce the seeds to germinate at the same time and rate? Also, after drying, is there a down side to putting off the roasting phase? I would think that I could store the grain in the dry yet pre- roasted condition for some time. Any feedback or references would be appreciated. Thanks, Clif cmoore at gi.alaska.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 13:10:29 -0800 (PST) From: Domenick Venezia <demonick at zgi.antispam.com> Subject: mashout & extraction efficiency In HBD #2630 I said: > Solubility is the issue. > > More sugar dissolves in hotter water than cooler water. If you raise > the temperature of the mash by 20F (150F to 170F) you increase the > solubility of dextrose from ~3300g/liter to ~4000g/liter (21% increase) > which easily explains the increased extraction efficiency. After an extensive offline discussion on this subject with Scott <smurman at best.com> I have come to a different conclusion. I have come to agree with Samuel Mize <smize at prime.imagin.net> when he said, "I do know that more sugar dissolves in hotter water, and FASTER." (my emphasis) I think that the increase we see in employing a mashout is not due to increased solubility, but an increased rate of transfer of sugar to the sparge water. Why have I changed my mind? Because I didn't like the previous one? Wrong color? No! Impure thoughts. I began to consider gelatinization, conversion, and solubility. Sugar is REALLY, REALLY, soluble in water, particular hot water. Gelatinization is the process of solubilizing starch. Converting enzymes work only in solution. If you start with solubilized starch, convert it in solution to sugar, then the resulting sugar must already be in solution. If all the sugar is always in solution then solubility can not be an issue. If all the sugar is already in solution, then the increase in extraction we see when employing a mashout must be the result of getting more of the sugar from the tun to the sparge water. Given that we are constrained by sparge volume, then the only way to increase extraction is to increase the rate of transfer of sugar from the tun to kettle. A number of factors have been postulated to be the cause of this effect, viscosity, agitation, and increased temperature. I posted my opinion about viscosity, but after more consideration, it is clear that all three of these factors are related. Also, the tun is a complicated place. We have millions of tiny sponges soaked with sugar solution, floating in a sugar solution, and we are wondering how mashout affects this system. Whether there is a higher concentration of sugar inside the kernel than outside before the sparge is irrelevant, since once the sparge starts this is certainly true. The sugar that is in solution outside the kernels is readily sparged. The real issue is getting the sugar that is in solution inside the kernels. What we must do is either draw the sugar out by osmotic pressure, or move water through the kernels, thereby flushing the sugar solution out. If we are trying to draw out the sugar by osmotic pressure, then the more and hotter water we get around the kernels the more efficient the transfer. More water can be presented to the kernels by agitation, and hotter water, by using hotter water. If we are trying to move water through the kernels, lowering the viscosity within the kernel will increase the rate of water movement through the kernel. We can lower viscosity by raising the temperature. Also, water is forced through the kernels by small, local pressure differentials on the sides of the kernels. Agitation, will increase these differentials. If, before mashout, the kernels do contain a higher concentration of sugar than the external solution, then both or either raising the temperature and/or stirring the mash will get more sugar out of the kernels into the external solution. If, before mashout, there is no difference in sugar concentration between the interior and exterior of the kernels, then no amount of added heat or agitation will not change anything at this point. Once the sparge has started, we create a concentration differential between the interior and exterior of the kernels. Obviously, both diffusion and flushing must be in affect during the sparge. Increasing the heat content of the mash and increasing agitation will both increase both methods of extraction. We can easily increase the temperature by employing mashout and using hotter sparge water, but we can't continue to stir the mash during the sparge. BUT, we can increase agitation during the sparge without stirring! What is agitation? It is moving the kernels in relation to the external solution, or visa versa. It is irrelevant whether the motive force of this movement is a spoon or gravity, therefore the sparge is agitation. How can we increase the amount of solution presented to the kernels without disturbing the grain bed and without causing channelling? Recirulation. I suggest that recirulation during the sparge will increase extraction efficiency. Standard operating procedure calls for initial recirculation to establish the grain bed but I suggest that periodic recirulation during the sparge will increase your extraction efficiency. I also suggest that using another pound or two of grain will make this whole discussion moot. Domenick Venezia demonick at zgi.antispam.com (remove .antispam) Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 17:38:33 -0500 From: brewmaker1 at juno.com (Jeffrey C Lawrence) - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 18:32:28 -0700 (MST) From: Dave Thayer <dthayer at netcom.com> Subject: Re: Computerized Fridge Controller In HBD #2629, Mark Riley wrote: > As to having a PC controlling the relay directly, all > I can say is that PC's have a tendancy to crash, > hang, or be otherwise ill disposed. Although the > circuit would be more complicated, a better idea would > be to have the PC set the desired temperature (with a > DAC) and do the data logging. Leave the switching > to a comparator. If the PC crashed, the comparator > circuit will still be active and your freezer will stay > at the last set temperature (i.e. your beer won't be > ruined). The Dallas Semiconductor (http://www.dalsemi.com) DS1620 temperature sensor/controller IC has a digital interface you can connect to your computer, is factory pre calibrated to 0.5 deg C, and can be hooked to a relay output with programmable hysteresis. If your PC goes down it will run in stand-alone mode. All this for about 6 bucks. Disclaimer: I have not actually used one of these (it's on my to-do list), but from the specs I've seen it looks perfect for this application. your pal dave - -- Dave Thayer Denver, Colorado USA dthayer at netcom.com Beware of having the hysteresis so close. Something like this controller is designed for use in a chilled water and hot water/steam combination that really can handle the abrupt short cycling that so close an offset offers. This controller would work best with a 1 1/2 to 2 degree offset to prevent short-cycling of the compressor and reducing the life of the equipments. Jeff Brewmaker1 at Juno.com - --------------------------------------- _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 17:41:34 -0800 From: "Martin Brown" <martinbrown at worldnet.att.net> Subject: Chloramine My water company - East Bay Municipal Utilities District in the San Francisco Bay area, has announced that they are switching from chlorine to chloramine, warning customers who have koi ponds or tropical fish that the latter does not evaporate from water as the former does. Usually, I draw off about 10 gallons of water several days before mashing and brewing. Letting the water sit in a couple of open, plastic water bottles for a few days seems to allow the chlorine to dissipate. Does anyone out there in HBD land know if chloramine will kill my yeast, preventing fermentation? Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 08 Feb 1998 13:57:12 -0500 From: John Mitchell <jlmitch at charlotte.infi.net> Subject: South Pole Brewing John Watts wrote in HBD2597: >Now that Jeff Renner has been established as the Northern Brewing >Pole, we need a Southern Pole so we can get started on the >HomeBrewers Globe. I've got a friend in the Navy with the McMurdo unit who goes to Antarctica every year. Some people started brewing there a couple years ago, though the frequency has diminished as more good commercial beer has become available to them there. I've even got a shirt depicting a label for "Great Scott's Fat Seal Stout, Brewed in Antarctica, Tested by the Explorers." John Mitchell Gastonia, NC Carolina Brewmasters Return to table of contents
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