HOMEBREW Digest #2631 Sat 07 February 1998

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		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com

  keg lube (AlannnnT)
  Doggerel.... ("Rob Moline")
  Wyeast 3056 ("John Lifer, jr")
  Randy's Oldie Fridge (Forrest Duddles)
  Viscosity / Extraction (Kyle Druey)
  alterno keg lube (Dave Sapsis)
  peculiar yeast starter behavior "Kevin TenBrink" 2/6/98 (Vachom)
  Chlorphenolics (AJ)
  Fining Agents - what they are good for (Charles Burns)
  some questions (michael rose)
  mashtime in the mashtun (Domenick Venezia)
  Bentonite first? (John Wilkinson)
  Efficiency Evaluation ("Paul Hockings")
  YARCMTD ("Randy Erickson")
  Re: peculiar yeast starter behavior (Mike Uchima)
  Bottle oxidation vs. HSA (James Tomlinson)
  re: peculiar yeast starter behavior ("phil sides")
  Two Tubs, 4 Kettles and a Baby (part 1) (Charles Burns)
  Two Tubs, 4 Kettles and a Baby (part 2) (Charles Burns)
  PRP Part 3 / Late Night HBD / Phenols in BT (Kyle Druey)
  RE: Keg Lube alternative (Richard Gardner)
  help stamp out quoted-printable! (Dick Dunn)
  Iceland, anyone? / AB ads for freshness (Richard Gardner)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 00:41:05 EST From: AlannnnT at aol.com Subject: keg lube Hi all. I try not to post commercial info on the page but all this discussion of the high cost of keg lube type products makes me cringe. A high quality, food grade lube suitable for pumps, kegs parts and couplings, from freezer to hot room temperatures cost $3.50 for a FOUR ounce squeeze tube. I challenge any homebrewer to use up a four ounce tube in this century, and I'm sure my tiny shop is not the only one selling it. Don't buy the small tin [one ounce] package sold by mailorder places if your are a heavy lube user, but $3.50 [retail] for four ounces shouldn't be excessive. Check with your local HB shop. >From the eastern tip of the J. Rennerian Hemisphere,[Long Island NY] Alan T Karps Homebrew Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 23:52:00 -0600 From: "Rob Moline" <brewer at ames.net> Subject: Doggerel.... Doggerel... The Digest seems to be cooking along at what I see as one of the best paces I have observed in some time. Thanks to all for continuing my education. Dave, give it a rest....... Mashout for denaturing enzymes seems redundant to me. Don't we denature them in the boil? I just consider a mashout, read sparge at 176 F for me, to be chasing good flow at runoff. Mark Tumarkin wonders about growing hops in Gainesville. Don't he know that the best thing that grows in Gatorville is a Seminole Victory? Courtesy of George De Piro, I had an opportunity to taste the HopDevil brew made by the Victory Brewing Company. Good God, I wish I could brew like that!!! Gentlemen and women, my credentials don't count for much, and anyone who knows me will attest to my absence of brewing knowledge and taste...but count on it...this beer screams Gold Medal....my prediction. Well done! I wish to announce that I am now employed as an assistant brewer (technical terminology.... I feel I have earned the title of Brewer, even if I am working for a Head Brewer) at the Court Avenue Brewing Company of Des Moines, and in a curious twist, am now working for Steve Zimmerman, who was my assistant brewer (when the LABCO re-opened in '95. Ain't life strange? The good thing is that I am back in the biz on a daily hands on basis, and the company is basically well balanced, great food and beer, and a GM that is not only a homebrewer, but also has "Beernut" on his personalized license plates! Thanks to those of you who helped when I was down..... "Remembering Who My Mates Are.." Jethro Gump Rob Moline Brewer Court Avenue Brewing Company Des Moines, Iowa brewer at ames.net Ames, Iowa. "The More I Know About Beer, The More I Realize I Need To Know More About Beer!" Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 06 Feb 1998 05:50:40 -0600 From: "John Lifer, jr" <jliferjr at misnet.com> Subject: Wyeast 3056 I have been wanting to do a lager for quite some time now. I got a pack of Wyeast 3056 Bavarian yeast a while back, oops, Oct 97 date. Has been two days and no activity in pack at all. I know it should take 4 days or so, but my question is what is the viability of this yeast? Should I wait or start an ale yeast I have on hand? It was stored in refrig, at 70f or so now. Thanks, John Lifer, Jr. Still illegal in Mississippi (but maybe a brewpub or two?) Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 06 Feb 1998 07:38:09 -0500 From: Forrest Duddles <fridge at Imbecile.kzoo.edu> Subject: Randy's Oldie Fridge Greetings folks, Randy posted: >To add to the refrigerator thread: I have an old (25-30 years, judging > by the "Harvest Gold" color) refrigerator, approx. 16 cf, with a > single door (freezer and refrig. in same compartment). I've been using > this to lager, but I noticed that by turning the control to a point > between defrost and "1" (the warmest setting), I can maintain a temp > of 50 degrees. Will this setting hurt the unit? If it won't, I could > ferment lagers without buying an external controller. > Thanks- Randy in San Diego This will probably work fine. Refrigerators of that era were built pretty tough - but not very efficient. I must say, however, that at this advanced age "She could blow at any moment!" Hope this helps! - --------------------------------------------------------------- Forrest Duddles - FridgeGuy in Kalamazoo fridge at Imbecile.kzoo.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 05 Feb 1998 23:15:03 -0800 From: Kyle Druey <druey at ibm.net> Subject: Viscosity / Extraction viscosity and lautering... >If lower viscosity yielded greater extraction then it would happen at >the lower viscosities that naturally occur during the sparge. Viscosity >is not an issue. I think I mentioned that the only reason I bring the mash to mashout temps is to reduce the viscocity. I do not do this to increase extraction, but rather to reduce the possibility of a stuck mash. On extraction... Homebrewers seem to be obsessed with high extraction rates, e.g. "I obtained 34 pts from my last mash". Can you always get 34 pts from your mash? I think the more important issue is consistency. So what if you can only get 25 to 26 pts from your mash setup. If you can do this almost every time then you can achieve repeatability in your brewing, and you will be way ahead of your extraction crazed friends. "...IT IS RARE IN BREWING FOR EFFICIENCY AND BEER QUALITY TO GO HAND IN HAND." (Fix, PoBS, p. 98) If you want high extraction rates just use a Corona, grind up the malt to flour, and you will beat your neighbors extraction rate every time (if you don't get a set mash). viscosity and the RIMSer... Burley mentioned to us that viscosity increases rapidly with respect to concentration. I have noticed this when the mash really starts to convert at the 158 F rest. The viscosity increases and the pump begins to feel it. What I have been doing lately is to add 1 or 2 qts of the heated sparge water during the 158 F rest to make recirculation easier. This has eliminated any high temp stuck mash problems I may have had in the past. Kyle Druey Bakersfield, CA Al K where are you? I have been looking forward to your comments on the protein rest/modification issue... Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 07:40:44 -0800 From: Dave Sapsis <DAVE_SAPSIS at fire.ca.gov> Subject: alterno keg lube For a long time I suffered with attaching/extracting fixtures to kegs...then it dawned on me. My lovely sister, being a health care professional working in the AIDS division of CDC, and a long proponent of safe sex and other current issues, had provided me with a big ol bottle of ASTRO-Glide. Hey, I didn't ask for it, but the stuff is great (nudge, nudge, wink, wink, say no more). I beleive it is 'specially formulated to be, er, ingestible. Works like magic. On kegs too. I bet y'all know where to look for it if the mood strikes you. - --dave in Sacramento, just a few keystrokes away from allayou. Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 09:44:14 -0600 From: Vachom <MVachow at newman.k12.la.us> Subject: peculiar yeast starter behavior "Kevin TenBrink" 2/6/98 Kevin: Your yeast starters haven't really reached high krausen. The great shortcoming of using yeast starters is the unpredictable nature of the yeast; that is, you can't necessarily brew when it's convenient for you, because it may not be a convenient time for the yeast starter. My guess is that if you'd left any of your starters alone for another day, you'd have had visible bubbling. A couple of suggestions. Check the age of the liquid yeast you buy. Wyeast that's been hanging around the supply shops fridge for three months may be less efficient than fresher yeast. Secondly, make sure you aerate your starter well at first, but remember that fermentation is an anaerobic process. The yeast needs oxygen to get started, but once started, it will be harmed by additional oxygen. Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 06 Feb 1998 10:57:05 -0500 From: AJ <ajdel at mindspring.com> Subject: Chlorphenolics > In #2630 George DePiro wrote: > Chlorine can react with phenols in the beer to form chlorophenols, but > these are usually perceived as a strong swimming pool odor, not > medicine. I can't say that chlorphenolics never manifest themselves this way but I believe they are usually perceived as having "plastic", "electric" or "band aid" odors. In my experience it has always been the former. When first confronted with a chlorphenolic beer I usually think "Damn, this cup is cracked" because they smell (to me) exactly what a cheap plastic drink cup smells like when it is disrupted. And so I advise anyone who wants to learn what chlorphenolics smell like to get a cheap clear plastic drink cup and crumble or cut or file or somehow otherwize abuse it. Note that the cups used in contests are special odor free cups (or at least they should be) so that they will not work for this experiment. I typically pick this up once or twice each time I judge. I have personally never run into a beer that smelled like a band aid, free chlorine or anything "electric". Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 98 08:14 PST From: cburns at egusd.k12.ca.us (Charles Burns) Subject: Fining Agents - what they are good for There has been some discussion about fining agents lately (gelatin, polyclar, bentonite) and people attempting to use them to remove starch haze and protein hazes. As far as I know (of course I could go home, reread my books and make an intelligent post, but why not just go ahead and make a fool of myself right now), these fining agents are good at clearing suspended yeast, and not good at all for clearing starch or protein haze. The basic idea is that the fining particles have an opposite electrical charge than yeast so that they tend to glom on to each other (glom is a technical term), making them too heavy to remain in suspension and thereby settle out. Starch is bad and can probably be removed only by filtering. Protein haze can be cleared by lagering. Why it works I don't know, but everytime I have a beer that's hazy when its initially kegged, will clear in 2-3 weeks of storage at 34F. I also notice that flavors seem to intensify during this lagering time. I recently made a Sweet Stout that when kegged was full of body and mouthfeel (yummy) but very light in perceived roastiness. After 3 weeks in the keg at 34F, it now has dried out a bit and the roasty flavors are really beginning to come alive. I don't know what the science is, but I really like the result. By the way, I fine every beer I make with 1 teaspoon of gelatin in a pint of boiling water at the time I transfer from primary to secondary. Charley (working on 2 tub stout brewing report) in N. Cal Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 06 Feb 1998 08:05:38 -0800 From: michael rose <mrose at ucr.campus.mci.net> Subject: some questions Some help from the collective in settling some brewclub debates. 1)Does Special Roast Malt need to be mashed, or can it be steeped? 2)The BT Market Guide states that the conversion time for 2-row is about 5 minutes. Why do we need to do a 60 minute mash? 3)Which Wyeast, both lager and ale, is most neutral? (imparting the least amount of flavor) 4) What is Monica Lewinskys favorite game? "Sallow the leader" thanks, mike rose mrose at ucr.campus.mci.net riverside, ca Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 08:40:29 -0800 (PST) From: Domenick Venezia <demonick at zgi.com> Subject: mashtime in the mashtun In 2630 "Spies, James" <Jams at mlis.state.md.us> said, > While diffusivity is secondary during the sparge, during the mash it is > not. > ... <snip> ...B > The problem is that we usually stop mashing after 60 min. or so, and as I > said above diffusion is slow, so there will always be sugar trapped > within the grains > ... <snip> ... > how much increase in efficiency occurs if we are to simply let the whole > shebang sit for another 30 - 45 minutes? Would the slow diffusion of > sugars *out* of the middle of the grains and *into* the spaces between > them help increase efficiency more than simply doing a painfully slow > sparge after 60 min? My guess is very little, to none. For diffusion to work there must be a concentration gradient. In the above case there must be a higher concentration of sugar in the grains than outside the grains. If the "whole shebang" has been fully converted and is at osmotic equilibrium then the only way to get sugar to diffuse out of the grains is to reduce the concentration of sugar outside the grains, that is, sparge. The issue boils down to the question of whether the mash is at osmotic equilibrium at the start of the sparge. I think that this might be easy to calculate. First, one must employ a mashout in this case to inactivate any remaining enzymes, because we do not want the mash to continue to convert during the sparge. Since we know exactly how much water we have added to the grist, then the SG of the first runnings (after appropriate recirculation) can be taken to be the SG of the mash. Using the volume and initial SG one can calculate the total amount of sugar contained in the tun under the assumption of osmotic equilibrium. Then, run your sparge, and at the end of the sparge calculate the total amount of sugar extracted from the mash. If the "after sparge" number is higher than the "before sparge" number then there must exist some reservoir of higher concentration in the mash, and our original assumption of osmotic equilibrium is false. Because of the margins of error in this process, only a gross difference will be detected. Domenick Venezia demonick at zgi.antispam.com (remove .antispam) Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 98 12:28:25 CST From: jwilkins at wss.dsccc.com (John Wilkinson) Subject: Bentonite first? Kirk Harralson quoted a winemaking faq about adding bentonite at the beginning: > It helps to get rid of a lot of stuff (including millions of dead yeast > cells) during the primary fermentation by having it all fall out before > clearing ever starts. Doing so optimizes the actual clearing process > by taking care of a lot of it before you even try. It also helps avoid > foul smells from decomposing yeast -- a potential problem when your > wine is in the carboy for several weeks or even months -- when you > transfer the wine into the secondary by having them all fall out to the > bottom in the primary, therefore avoiding their transfer. If the bentonite is added at the beginning it would seem any yeast it removed would be freshly pitched. I wouldn't think the bentonite would continue to remove things from the must (or wort, in our case) after it had precipitated and I would expect that precipitation to be well before the yeast was finished and dying off. What could it be removing at the beginning that needed to be removed? I hope this has not strayed too far from beer brewing but I find it interesting. John Wilkinson - Grapevine, Texas - jwilkins at wss.dsccc.com Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 11:08:48 -0800 From: "Paul Hockings" <phocking at pacifier.com> Subject: Efficiency Evaluation HI all, My first submission to the digest. Anyway my dilema of the week.. Targeting a 13.75 p ESB, I figured 1.206 lbs/ext/gal. Aiming for an 8 gallon batch and using Golden Promise Scottish Malt as my base ( with only 6% chrystal for color) I used the following formula to determine the amount of grain I would need : 1.206 * 8gal = 9.68 lbs, (80% course grind extract for Golden Promise from malt anaylisis sheet) and my rounded up system efficiency to 70%, I got : 9.68 / (.8 *.7) = 17. 2 lbs of grain. So 17 lbs of grain and 9 gallons of water later I ended up with a density of 16. 25 P in just over 7.5 gallons after a 90 minute boil ! Redoing the formula for a 7.5 gallon batch would = 16.1 lbs of grain needed. 1 lb less. My Question, Does this mean my efficiency for this batch has risen to ~80% ?? 7.5 gals at 16.25 p = 10.8lbs/ext , 10.8 / 17 = .63 , .63 / .8 = .79 If this is correct I have increased my efficiency 10% with this batch (wow!) , mostly due to my increased attention to the lauter tun (converted half barrel) temperature during sparge . I would be interested in any comments the group might have. Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 11:23:02 -0800 From: "Randy Erickson" <RANDYE at mid.org> Subject: YARCMTD Yet Another Rubbermaid Cooler Mash Tun Design: Drew (Emily's husband) asks about what type of false bottom to use in his = Rubbermaid cooler mash tun. There are a number of links to various = designs at The Brewery website, I would start there. I will also tell you what I did when I built mine about a month ago. The = slick part, not suprisingly, is based on a KennyEddy design. I had a wild hair to build this thing, I'd decided to use the Easymasher = concept, but was too impatient to order one from Jack. My local shop had = a rolled up screen, _identical_ to the one on my real Easymasher (also = from a company in Illinois) for about 8 bucks. You could probably make = something just as good with about two-bits worth of screen, but hey, it's = a hobby. =20 I clamped the screen onto a short (six-inch) piece of 3/8" OD copper = tubing with a small stainless hose clamp (just like EM). The other end of = the tubing fits snugly inside a piece of 3/8" ID plastic racking hose. = The hose fits snugly inside a rubber mini-keg bung. The bung fits very = snugly into the hole of the interior lining of the Rubbermaid cooler, from = the inside. No cutting, melting, bolting, gluing, etc., just quick and = easy. I left about two inches of hose sticking out of the side of the cooler = and attached a $2 plastic valve (3/8" hose barb on both ends. Another = three feet of hose lets me sparge without splashing. I imaging you could = use a long piece of hose and one of those pinch type racking hose clamps = and avoid the valve altogether. Good luck, Randy in Modesto (who's really excited about getting to go to the = California HB Club of the Year banquet at Anchor tomorrow night)=20 Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 06 Feb 1998 13:45:11 -0600 From: Mike Uchima <uchima at mcs.net> Subject: Re: peculiar yeast starter behavior Kevin TenBrink asks about lack of activity in starters, and the fact that the airlock bubbles when the starter is shaken. This is normal. A 1 pint starter has about 1/40th the volume of wort, compared to a full size batch of beer. So the bubbling rate in the airlock will be only about 1/40th what you'd see on a carboy full of beer. When you shake it, you are causing a bunch of dissolved CO2 to come out of solution all at once, which causes the fast bubbling. If you want to determine when the starter has fermented out (i.e. you want to decant most of the liquid so you can re-feed the starter, or you want to pitch just the slurry), wait until it starts to clear. - -- == Mike Uchima == uchima at mcs.net == Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 06 Feb 1998 15:58:06 -0500 From: James Tomlinson <red_beards at no.spam.compuserve.com> Subject: Bottle oxidation vs. HSA I brewed my first successful partial grain just after Christmas (First one was a carboy gyser from a blocked air lock...nuther story). It started out as what appeared to be one of my best beers (A Sam Adams Ale Clone). Unfortunately, I seem to be getting the "cardboard" taste. I didn't notice it in the first 1/2 of the bottles. It appears to be getting stronger. At first, I thought it was a little HSA from my ineptatude with moving the mash from the mash tun to the lauter tun (no longer an issue since I fully converted my 30 qt cooler with my easy masher). I now fear that it is bottle oxidation. This brew sat in secondary for a long time (3 weeks). There was not a lot of CO2 left in the beer at priming. I bottled with standard airspace. I primed with saved gyle. So, Whadda ya think ? HSA or Bottle Oxidation ? - -- James Tomlinson remove the "no.spam" to reply Give a man a beer, and he wastes an hour. But teach a man how to brew, and he wastes a lifetime! Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 06 Feb 1998 14:27:07 PST From: "phil sides" <hopsock at hotmail.com> Subject: re: peculiar yeast starter behavior In HBD #2630 Kevin TenBrink <tenbrink at jps.net> wrote: >I make a starter and add the yeast. The next morning there does not >appear to be any activity, ie fermentation, in the gallon jug that I >am using, that is, until I give it a shake or a swirl. Then a huge >out gassing of CO2 occurs and it returns to its apparently docile >state. I wait a few minutes and give it another shake and yet >another large burst of CO2 is emitted from the wort/starter. This >has happened on every occasion I have made a yeast starter, even >though I have used different yeast, different amounts of starter >wort, and different temps to store these starters. Sorry to ask such an obvious question, but are you sure you are getting a good seal at the base of your airlock and the stopper's contact with the bottle? CO2 could be seeping out slowly, and every time I pick up my gallon jug to look at it, I give the stopper a good push just to make sure. I use the same stopper I use for 5 gallon carboys and the jug opening is not exactly the same size as the carboy openings although I have never had a leak. >How am I to know when the starter is done, when it stops >spewing CO2 upon agitation? I always pitch mine 48 hours into the starter fermentation. I have violent fermentation in the starter jug on the second day. My method is probably a little different than most of the collective, but I follow it precisely each time and it always works. I use 2 cups (yes that says cups, a LOT more than I see others using) of DME in 2/3 gallon of water and boil for 15 minutes. This yields just over 1/2 gallon of wort. Cool it then pitch either a 12 oz. bottle of slurry harvested from a primary or a smack pack. Pitch the starter 48 hours later. I see signs of fermentation almost immediately. Phil ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 98 16:19 PST From: cburns at egusd.k12.ca.us (Charles Burns) Subject: Two Tubs, 4 Kettles and a Baby (part 1) Two Tub Russian Imperial Stout It all began with what I thought was a fairly innocent remark. Something like, "Hey Dave, you know, after making a barrel of Dunkel, it seems like that wine barrel mash tub would be more suited for making a really BIG beer on a homebrew scale. A barleywine or Russian Imperial...". Next thing I know, we're collaborating on a recipe for a monster brew. What follows is the story of Two Tubs, Four Kettles and a Baby. In late December, we had used Dave's half wine barrel mash tub to double decoct a barrel of Dunkel (which we appropriately scorched and now consider a rauchdunkel but tastes like a steinbier). This time, Dave got his buddy Peter (a professional brewer) who had the other half of the wine barrel to join us and make it into a two tub extravaganza. The first amazing fact that surfaced is that Peter lives down south (about 100 miles away) and owns a very small car (I think a little toyota). He managed to get the half wine barrel, kettle, burner, propane, fiance and 3 sacks of grain all packed into this little sardine can of a car. Nearly had to use the "jaws of life" to extract them when they showed up! The best way to tell this story is to list what went wrong step by step throughout the brew day, so here it goes... Peter, where's the chocolate malt? Uh-oh. The grain bill we came up with called for chocolate and nobody brought any. So off go Peter and Dave to buy some while Vic and I proceed to mill 130 lbs of pale ale malt. Beautiful Crisp Maris Otter malt. Its floor malted and therefore little handled by machines that trash the malt. Not a broken kernel in the bag and beautifully plump. Dave has this 500 year old (approx) Corona Mill that he motorized by hammering a socket wrench onto the shaft which then has an adapter for a variable speed, hand held drill. I just had to have a picture of this so I ran to get my camera. Second problem of the day - camera batteries are dead. This day is beginning to look like one of those brew days when everything goes south. Giving up on the pictures Vic (my buddy Victor who got me started in this hobby) and I proceed to mill. We got through the first bag and about 20 lbs into the second when the socket came loose. We tried and tried hammering it back on but to no avail - no way to mill. Looking through Dave's tools, we tried to file some new edges on the shaft. Didn't work. So what the heck, we went to the drug store and picked up new batteries for the camera. Dave and Peter came back and found us helpless. Tried the hand crank on the Corona and after 2 lbs gave up, we'd have been cranking all day to finish up. Dave found a little smaller socket and with some more filing and hammering, we finally got the mill running again. Total milling was about 150lbs (see recipe at end). After the first batch was milled, we went ahead and mashed in. Alternately adding hot water from Dave's hose which is hooked up to his hot water heater in the garage and boiling water from the 3 kettles we had already set up, Dave and Peter eyeball the thing and got a fairly stiff looking mash going. Peter says "add water until it stirs like jelly". Who knows what the ratio of water to grist was, no telling, but it looked about 1.25 quarts per pound of grist, my guess only. We hit 152F, not bad for no calculator, just eyeballing it. Mashtub one was filled to within about 1 inch of the rim. We immediately began boiling more water for the next mash. Milling completed and we mashed in the next one very similarly, only this time we hit 154F. We're boiling more water now for hot liquor and a sparge. About this time we look around and say, how many fermenters do we have. Well, not enough. So Vic tears off down the street in my car to go get his 6.5 gallon glass. And doesn't come back for almost 2 hours - after we had lunch. Seems the fermenter had been UNCLEANDED for a LONG time. Uneventful mash, we sampled a few homebrews and eventually killed a keg of Vienna that Dave had made. Excellent beer that day, all day long (except for maybe a sweet stout that Dave felt never should have been made). No sparge drain of mashtun one produced about 12 gallons of about 1.100 wort (at 140F), after we ran a few pints onto the concrete becuase we left the drain open on the kettle, which we proceeded to boil. Sparge began for the gyle wort which eventually yielded about 12 gallons of 1.055 wort (at 140F). We got concerned about the volume of grain and water in the tubs and so the second tub was about 10 lbs short of grain. It yielded 12 gallons of approx 1.090 wort first runnings and 12 gallons of 1.048 wort gyle (straining to remember these details). ... to be continued ... Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 98 16:20 PST From: cburns at egusd.k12.ca.us (Charles Burns) Subject: Two Tubs, 4 Kettles and a Baby (part 2) ...continued... So there we were with 4 kettles going and two of them decide to boil over about the same time, much to Dangerous Dave's delight. Dave's ever present hose cooled things down. Unfortunately, one of the burners cooled down a bit too much and the flame went out. With 3 other burners going, there was so much noise, nobody noticed the lack of flame on one of them. Luckily, a few minutes later I smelled the propane and noticed the lack of boil in one of the kettles. Just needed a little spark and we were back in business. Good thing we were outside and well ventilated. About now you're probably wondering about the baby. Dave's patio brew haus is covered by a low hanging metal patio cover. This thing THUNDERS when it rains hard. And rain it did. The "baby" was El Nino dumping about 3 inches of rain on us during our 9 hour brew extravaganza. Dave has these copper screens he uses at the bottom of the kettle to strain hops out at the end of boiling. And Peter has this incredible cylinder (one end closed) of stainless mesh he built that is the same shape as the half keg kettle. This in-kettle hopback/hop bag ends up as a liner to the inside of the kettle. But it only works if you actually put it IN the kettle before you put hops in. Duh. We forgot. Actually we had two kettles with no screen and two with. Never fear, Dangerous Dave's got a hop bag for one kettle, but one we just plain forgot and dumped hops in the other. The one we fogot about we simply took a kettle (after it was emptied) put some water in it, fired up a burner, dropped in the big stainless hopback, boiled it for a few minutes and them dumped the entire 10 gallons of cooled (full of whole hops) right into it. Turned on the spout and instantly came out super clean wort. We ended up doing it twice because we forgot to pull the hop bag out of the one kettle before cooling and the bag fell into the kettle and got lost. I guess to wrap this little story up, the other stuff that went wrong 1) broke Peter's manifold while cleaning the mash tub, 2) dropped several hundred pounds of wet grain into Dave's very large trash can (imagine automated trash collection truck tilting over when attempting to lift it), 3) forgot to take gravity readings after the boil so all OG's are estimates, 4) got a little tipsy and forgot to write down what hops were used in gyle beers, 5) scraped protein off ceiling of basement Sunday morning when fermenter suddenly became a volcano (erupted for 24 hours). Dave had 6 inches of freeboard in his open fermenter in the garage which also overflowed that night. Grain Bill for Two Tub Russian Imperial Stout 65# Crisp pale 10# Carastan 30 L 4# HB roast (575L) 2# chocolate (~300L) 200 gms whole Centennial (~70 minutes) half 8%AA half 10%AA 224 gms whole East Kent Goldings (knockout) 5%AA OG: 1.102 (est) Wyeast Scottish Ale (mine only) That was mashtub and batch number 1. The second tub was about 10 lbs lighter in total grain, same boil hops but I think it got finished with some Williamette or Fuggles. Things were getting hard to keep track of at that point. We mixed the two worts so everyone got some of everything. There is no way we will ever, ever repeat this beer, no matter how much we want to. It smells fantastic by the way. I don't have a clue what we hopped the porter with but I'm fermenting it with Cal Common Wyeast 2112. All fermenting taking place at 62F for my batches. I have pictures to prove all of this is really true. Charley (still cleaning the ceilings) in Rescue, California. Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 06 Feb 1998 08:46:26 -0800 From: Kyle Druey <druey at ibm.net> Subject: PRP Part 3 / Late Night HBD / Phenols in BT Protein Rest Primer Part 3 From: Tim Martin <TimMartin at southwest.cc.nc.us> >I certainly have enjoyed the discussion on "modern malts" please keep >it up. OK. Although now I am beginning to feel that my pursuit in finding practical answers is akin to chasing the wind. >if I use Marris Otter this time and I don't use a rest but order more >at a latter date it may be different and will require a rest. This is my supposition. I was surprised that nobody challenged this and mentioned that quality maltsters will be consistent in their malting, and one can expect consistent modification from lot to lot. This is probably true to a certain extent, but why then does the maltster always perform a laboratory analysis on each lot? Because one never knows for sure... >You lose me on measuring the acrospire not sure I would recognize >one if I held it in my finger any way. Boil some grain in a small pot for 60 minutes. At the end of the boil the acrospire will be a white/green color, and will stick out of the husk (while it is still boiling in the pot). It is very noticeable, give it a try. >quite frankly a malt analysis sheet, if you can find one is difficult >to interpret. I should have mentioned how to interpret laboratory numbers in my original post. The HBD xpurtz know better than to do this, but since I don't know any better,and don't have the education/experience/recognition as an xpurt I can offer some guidelines :>) (again, this is based on my research, and the object is to reduce haze causing proteins): *Highly/Well Modified Malt: Kolbach Index (%SNR) >= 40, Fine Grind Coarse Grind Difference (%FG/CG) < 1.8. No protein rest needed. *Moderately Modified Malt: 36 <= Kolbach Index < 40, 1.8 <= %FG/CG < 2.2. 20' protein rest at 135 F. *Poorly/Under Modified Malt: Kolbach Index <36, %FG/CG >= 2.2. 20' protein rest at 122 F. I am sure the certainty of my recommendations above is a good indicator of how little I understand this issue. If you have 'tweeners', where a malt is well modified by the Kolbach index and moderately modified by the %FG/CG (or vice versa), add a 20' protein rest at 135 F, this will not hurt the beer, and could very well help. I am not sure if the same logic would apply if a malt is moderately modified by the Kolbach index, and undermodified by the %FG/CG. Perhaps you could then mix and match by resting 15' at 122 F, then rest for 15' at 135 F. My hope is that the homebrew shops will begin to list the Kolbach index and the %FG/CG, as they list the color now. Kudos to St. Pats of Texas who is going to list the lot analysis for one of their malts. Perhaps if we all start asking for the lot analysis it will become readily available. Anyone, please feel free to offer changes on the laboratory number guidelines I listed above. I failed to mention % protein of the malt as a factor to consider, but I am not yet sure what to do with this. I thought it was interesting that when I used my home-made testing methods I came up with the same protein rest conclusions on my 6 base malt samples as Steve Alexander did using the laboratory numbers. (somebody figure out the chi-squared probability of that happening at random, I am sure it is less than 5%) ************************** David's predicament: >Thanks for the hbd. I am now hooked and I am having a hard time >justifying this with my wife. David, I ditto your sentiments. Here on the west coast we can read tomorrows HBD at 10:00 pm the night before at the HBD website. Somehow my dear wife does not share the same sence of urgency that I have to read the HBD the night before.... I forgot to mention to Steve Alexander how much I enjoyed reading his BT article on phenols, very good stuff, and why I like BT mag! Kyle Druey Bakersfield, CA Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 20:56:51 -0600 (CST) From: Richard Gardner <rgardner at papillion.ne.us> Subject: RE: Keg Lube alternative tim wrote: >A mail order brew shop recommended I use Vaseline as a substitute for Keg lube. I personally never tried this, since I believe it's a petroleum based product, any brave souls care to try it and report back. Petroleum isn't the problem- I'd say the issue is how soluable the lubricant is. I've used "Sanitary Petro-Gel Lubricant" for a couple of years now with no problems - from the McGlaughlin OIL Co! It is a "technical white grease" for "machinery parts where food contact is only incidental" which it is for my kegs--all the places I put the gel are not in the main flow of beer. I'd guess (no, I haven't tried this) that vasoline (TM), lightly applied, would work well. It really isn't very soluable. I would not recommend any water soluable lubricant though (since this is a family forum I won't give names :). Return to table of contents
Date: 6 Feb 98 18:48:15 MST (Fri) From: rcd at raven.talisman.com (Dick Dunn) Subject: help stamp out quoted-printable! Dave Burley's affliction with equal-signs, double-spaced text, broken equations, and the like in his submissions is not peculiar to Dave. It's a consequence of the fact that he's using compuserve.com as his ISP. The same problems afflict other Compuserve users sending articles to this and other digests. And, of course, they afflict the readers and the digest janitors as well. It's an ongoing problem, and from what I've seen of people's interactions with them, Compuserve is entirely unable to under- stand the problem they're creating, let alone admit it or fix it. The source of the problem is Compuserve's use of an email format (actually a "Content-Transfer-Encoding") of "quoted-printable" rather than "7 bit". Quoted-printable is marginally useful in any case, but definitely unsuit- able for general interchange, and apparently Compuserve provides no way for its users to turn off the q-p translation. Short of harrassing Compuserve, which according to the folks who have tried it seems to have been unsuccess- ful so far, the problem is likely to remain. - --- Dick Dunn rcd, domain talisman.com Boulder County, Colorado USA ...I'm not cynical - just experienced. Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 22:40:34 -0600 (CST) From: Richard Gardner <rgardner at papillion.ne.us> Subject: Iceland, anyone? / AB ads for freshness OK, I don't want to abuse the space, but this one isn't in the normal archives of "hey, I'm going to X, where are the brewpubs, etc" (plus my newserver just died). I'm considering a job offer as an expat in Iceland (Reykjavik). Friends who have been there loved it, but could not answer any of my beer questions. My MJ pocket guide discusses the one brewery in this Nordic land (what do you expect with a population of less than 300,000 in an area the size of Kentucky? I live in a town of 400K today, with 2 brewpub, but over 100 beers availble). I have found out that until 10 years ago beer was illegal (but hard booze OK, huh?). My general questions are: - Is homebrewing legal - or would I have to bootleg? (not that I am proposing breaking the law, and realizing that I may have to go back to extract due to cost/availabliity, but by this point I figure I can probably go back to making a real decent brew from extract, bringing my extract in from Glasgow . . . . ). I figure that finding propane will be problematic, so we'll have to depend on electric burners (220V!), and I'll put the rest of my gear in storage. - Are there decent beers available other than the local brew and American imports (ugh) like Bud, Miller, and Coors. Sorry, we're not into Hard Rock Cafe. Are decent British Ales available? Or will I have to take cheap trips to Belgium (throw me in that ther (sic) briar patch). Private responses requested. Should I get enough info, I'll repost a summary. (BTW, after 6 years here, I don't remember a single .is posting). == Something different - I just heard the latest AB ad for their fresh local beer. Give me a break. While I greatly respect their brewmasters (no spams please, their brewmasters DO know what they are doing [what the general market wants], and they did have the best displays at the GABF), their market-iers have warped reality with the discussion of how their "local" breweries make "fresher" beer. - --- The facts, although interesting, are irrelevant ---- Return to table of contents
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