HOMEBREW Digest #2658 Wed 11 March 1998
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FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of
Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
URL: http://www.oeonline.com
Contents:
RIMS Scorching ("Norman L. Brewer")
Rubber, Stones and Swamps ("Dana H. Edgell")
boiling iso-hop (Regan Pallandi)
Antiseptic hops; oxidation ("Mort O'Sullivan")
RO H2O Availability ("Rob Moline")
Pyrex Boil-over Preventers (John Bowerman)
Re: RIMS scorching and more (Jeremy Bergsman)
hop varieties ("Mort O'Sullivan")
Mail Order beer of the month (DGofus)
29 mm crown caps (Edward J. Basgall)
Dutch beer answers (Edward J. Basgall)
re: the slow-mead myth (Lars)
San Diego brews (Herbert Bresler)
Pistachio Porter (Herbert Bresler)
Steven Jones "Wort Aeration" 3/9/98 (Vachom)
Backyard Barley (Greg Young)
HSA (Jeff Grey)
Malt Syrups...low protein? (Mark Swenson)
Need NAOH cleaning advice ("MICHAEL L. TEED")
Bottle Carbonation ("Clifford A. Hicks")
stopper sizes (PVanslyke)
Molasses (PVanslyke)
Goldings / powdery sensation (Domenick Venezia)
Re: Cleaning Sanke Kegs (Jeff Renner)
RIMS flowrate and suction pressure questions (Jeff)
Be sure to enter the 7th NYC Spring Regional Competition
3/22/98. Surf to http://www.wp.com/hosi/companno.html for more
information...
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 19:17:39 -0500
From: "Norman L. Brewer" <nlbrewe at gti.net>
Subject: RIMS Scorching
>From a control standpoint, one flaw in most RIMS designs is the location of
the temperature measurement point. The temperature measurement is normally
taken in either the grain bed or in the piping between the bed and the RIMS
heater. This is logical since the major goal of the control loop is to
control the bed temperature. However, this design violates the basic
feedback control principal of placing the measurement in a location that
minimizes process lag and dead time. In addition, if precautions are not
taken, the discharge temperature of the heater can easily get to the range
where enzymes could be deactivated.
Consider a typical RIMS system with a 1250-watt heater and the temperature
sensor in the outlet of the mash tun. If you were holding the temperature
at a protein rest of 122 degrees F, and then increased the temperature
setpoint to the conversion temperature of say 152 degrees, the controller
would quickly raise the heater output to full power. If the flow rate is 1
gallon per minute then temperature rise will be about 9 degrees F across the
heater. The controller will hold the heater at full power until the
measured temperature gets close to 152 degrees. So if the circulating wort
temperature is 150 degrees, the actual heater outlet temperature would be
159 degrees. The problem gets worse if the flow rate decreases. A 0.5 gpm
flow rate would give 18 degrees f temperature rise across the heater and an
actual outlet temperature of 168 degrees. It's hard to determine the effect
of this on the circulating wort without knowing the enzyme deactivation
reaction kinetics, but the basic problem is that flow interruptions are not
sensed by the control system and can result in temperature excursions.
Now, consider what happens if the temperature sensor is moved to a point
immediately after the heater. In the above example, once the circulating
wort reaches 143 degrees, the controller will have to cut back the heater
power to maintain the heater outlet temperature at the setpoint of 152. If
the flow decreases, the temperature controller will see a momentary increase
in outlet temperature and decrease heater power to maintain the desired
outlet temperature as long as there is some flow. (if the flow stops
completely, there will be a problem because the overheated wort will never
reach the temperature sensor.)
What about the grain bed temperature, which is what we want to control? If
we are dumping hot wort into the grain bed at the desired temperature, then
the bed temperature will approach the wort temperature over time. Only heat
loss from the bed or energy released or consumed in the bed by chemical
reaction will cause the bed temperature to differ from the circulating wort
temperature. The higher the flow rate the better the bed temperature will
track the heater outlet temperature.
The drawback of measuring the temperature after the heater is that the
control system does not move the grain bed temperature as fast as when the
measurement is taken before the heater. The advantage is that you avoid
temperature excursions and the possibility of scorching if the flow rate is
reduced.
This is not just a theoretical discussion. My RIMS system uses this
approach, and I get excellent temperature control of the bed temperature. I
can't distinguish any temperature variation between the bed and circulating
wort using a dial thermometer. The only time I have had scorching was
before I hooked up the automatic controls and left the heat on with the pump
off. In this case there was baked on caramelized crud on the element which
took steel wool to remove.
Regards,
Norm Brewer
Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 16:46:04 -0800
From: "Dana H. Edgell" <edgell at quantum-net.com>
Subject: Rubber, Stones and Swamps
Three questions:
1) Does anyone have a summary of the "what stones should be used for stein
beer" thread of several months ago.
After a not too serious suggestion that my club should brew a stienbeer at
the upcomming So. Cal. Homebrew Fest, I find myself stuck with the job of
finding some propeer stones.
2) Does rubber react with hot wort, hot water or hot acidified sparge water?
I found some black rubber gromets (exact type of rubber unknown) at the
hardware store that I would like to use as a seal around a probe
thremometer inserted into my hot liquor tank (and maybe mash-tun). A web
search seemed to indicate that most types of rubber (except urethane,
polydufide or polyacrrylate) are fine for beer but no mention was made for
hot wort. Cold lactic acid is considered fine but hot lactic acid is not.
How strong are the acids used in these chemical resistance tests? Would
sparge water acidified with lactic acid be considered "hot lactic acid"
when it is relatively weak. Any chem or rubber guys out there who can help
me?
3) I am looking at using the float valve from a swamp cooler as to maintain
a constant sparge level (with proper ani-HSA manifold addition).
Unfortunately, I wouldn't bet that the plastic parts are food grade. Would
this be a problem considering the short time of contact in passing through
a valve? Has anyone found a better low-cost alternative or home-made float
valve design? Please keep in mind I would like to keep the option of
acidifying my sparge water in the future.
Thanks,
Dana Edgell
- ------------------------------------------------------------------
Dana Edgell edgell at quantum-net.com
3101 Cowley Way #176 http://www.quantum-net.com/edge_ale
San Diego, CA 92117 (619) 276-7644
Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 12:53:15 +1000
From: Regan Pallandi <esb at wr.com.au>
Subject: boiling iso-hop
Most beer kits that are available here (with a couple of exceptions) are
just malt extract with iso-hop dribbled in. What I have been wondering is,
what effect does boiling have on the characteristics of iso-hop, either
flavour or bitterness? A professional brewer once told me that boiling
these kits gives them an off taste, but, he is one of those lucky few who
knows EVERYTHING, and when in doubt would make something up, so I'm not
sure of his advice. A few of my customers have been wondering about this,
so if anyone has cold, hard facts, ideas/experience, could you let me know
what you think.
cheers, Regan in Sydney
Eastern Suburbs Brewmaker
149 Clovelly Rd. Randwick, 2031
ph/fax (02) 9399 8241
esb at wr.com.au
http://www.wr.com.au/esb
Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 02:09:14 -0000
From: "Mort O'Sullivan" <tarwater at brew-master.com>
Subject: Antiseptic hops; oxidation
Shaun Funk writes:
>...Most of us also are aware
>of the reputed preservative properties of hops.
>I have never seen an explanation of what it is
>about hops that gives them this property.
In recent years, the extent to which hops actually confer biological
stability to beer has been called into question. In the past, brewers
used to talk about the preservative value (PV) of hops and quantified
it based on the resin content of the hops. It was generally agreed
that alpha acids were more preservative than beta acids and depending
on where you look you might find an equation for preservative value
that looks something like this:
PV = 10[alpha + (beta/3)]
This equation would vary among different sources, but more weight is
always given to the alpha acids.
Actually, the situation is much more complicated than simply measuring
the alpha and beta acids and plugging them into a formula. The major
growth inhibiting organisms derived from hops have been identified as
trans-humulone and related (-)-humulone and colupulone compounds.
These compounds act as ionophores that disrupt the trans-membrane pH
gradient of sensitive bacteria. Lactobacilli vary tremendously in
their sensitivity to these compounds, and successful beer spoilage
organisms are often quite resistant to hop compounds. Thus a simple
measurement of PV based on the resin content in your hops is not an
accurate gauge of the antiseptic qualities of the hops. It really
depends on what your beer is exposed to.
Regarding the storage of hops and your question about oxidation:
oxidation can occur in sealed nitrogen-purged packages due to
compounds with relatively high oxidizing potential in the hops
(granted, it will be much less than in hops exposed to air). From a
bitterness point of view, oxidation decreases alpha acid bittering
potential and increases beta acid bittering potential, but not enough
to redeem the loss of alpha acid bitterness (also, oxo-beta acid
bitterness is believed to be qualitatively inferior to iso-alpha acid
bitterness). From the aroma point of view, oxidation will give you
cheesy and other off flavors and higher levels of some desirable
epoxides of hop terpenes (this may or may not be appropriate to the
style of beer you are brewing). As far as choosing hops goes, trust
your eyes and your nose. As hops oxidize they tend to change from
green to brown in color and their aroma changes noticeably. Get to
know your hops in their fresh state and you will recognize when they
are not.
- ----------------
Cheers,
Mort O'Sullivan
ICBD (Edinburgh, Scotland)
tarwater at brew-master.com
Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 22:24:57 -0600
From: "Rob Moline" <brewer at ames.net>
Subject: RO H2O Availability
>From: smurman at best.com
>Ken Schwartz informed me that buying RO water from
>the store costs about $3 per 5 gal. brew session. The best place to
>find these things is probably "high-end" fish stores.
In addition to his discussion of DI and RO water, I would wish to add
that a great place to get your water from is your community Dialysis Unit.
The one I worked in years ago ran city h2o through DI units, then cartridge
filters, and then through a series of RO units. I would often give this
water away to those who asked, and even had a jump ship pilot who would
reward me with a free jump from time to time for some of this stuff.
Analysis of this stuff came back as 99.99 h2o, so for those so inclined to
add their own salts, but don't wish to own a water system, taking advantage
of this route may be useful.
Ask to speak to the Head Technician about water and ask if it's possible
to get some if you were to supply your own containers. Don't forget to offer
to trade for brew!
Jethro (Behind on Reading The HBD, And Hoping The Roads Are Gonna Let Me Get
To Work) Gump
Rob Moline
Court Avenue Brewing Company,
Des Moines, Iowa.
brewer at ames.net
"The More I Know About Beer, The More I Realize I Need To Know More About
Beer!"
Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 08 Mar 1998 14:39:53 -0800
From: John Bowerman <jbowerma at kfalls.net>
Subject: Pyrex Boil-over Preventers
Ooohh! The light's bright ...
I've got one of these widgets, but it's never prevented a boil
over. What it has done is give me warning of an imminent
boil-over by starting to rattle noisily against the bottom of my
kettle just before one occurs (of course that assumes I'm paying
attention). I originally found mine in a brew shop in Boise but
have since seen them in restruant supply shops. FWIW
... Back to the shadows.
Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 01:37:54 -0800
From: Jeremy Bergsman <jeremybb at stanford.edu>
Subject: Re: RIMS scorching and more
"C.D. Pritchard" <cdp at chattanooga.net> has a good memory:
> Jeremy noted a RIMS scorching problem:
>
> >My element is only 48" and would be 5KW at 240V. During my first
> >batch I noticed a scorched smell in the wort during the first boost.
> >In looking at the temperature differential across the heating chamber,
> >it was ~11C...
>
> That element isn't running at 240 VAC is it? <g>
No, mainly because with the flow rates I was comfortable with I
realized that I could already pretty much max out the delta T
with 1200W.
Here's one thing I figured out about RIMS during the design stage,
which has been said before but this is a slightly different way
of saying it:
If you design a RIMS, you batch size is limited by your recirculation
rate (which in turn is affected by mash tun geometry, false bottom
design, pump and plumbing design....). This is because no matter
how well low a heat density element you get, or how many you use,
your delta T through the heating chamber can only result in a
temperature equal to the target temp at most. You need to be able
to recirculate the entire liquid volume in a reasonable amount of
time, say <10'.
> One question reguarding the high recirc dT across the heater: did you
> notice the brew's f.g. being higher than expected? Since the mash fluid is
> said to be enzyme rich, overheating the recirc too much above the desired
> rest temp. would damage the enzymes and hence make a less fermentable wort.
In my case I was heating from 40C, so the outlet temp (~51C) was still
less than the target temp (60C) so the bulk wort was not being overheated.
(Obviously some was drastically overheated onto the element.)
> Although the recirc. is only at an elevated temp. for as long as it takes
> to reach cooler temps. in the tun, it still worries me. Maybe it's
> overkill, but my controller kills power to the heater when the recirc.
> temp. ar the exit is > 2 degF above the desired rest temp.
My controller (designed by fellow HBDer Ken Schwartz) has this feature but
I'm still working on fine-tuning it.
> >2) I recirculate around the heater rather than through it for the first
> >half gallon or so since a great deal of particulate matter comes
> >through then and I believe from inspection of the burnt crud on the
> >element...
>
> Recircing around the heater sounds like a PITA to me. Why not recirc
> without powering the heater and power it when the recirc clears?
I may redesign my heating chamber, but as it stands now, some particulate
matter will get trapped in there, which may also be a result of a too
low flow rate. Anyway it's not a PITA becuase my runoff clears in less
than a half gallon, but it does negate some of the cool-factor of the
RIMS.
One idea I've heard on chamber design goes as follows: you want the
outlet to be up to encourage air to leave the system. On the other hand
you want it down to encourage particulates to leave the system. A horizontal
chamber that ends in a "T" that goes both up and down solves both problems.
Put the normal outlet on the top side, and put a valve on the bottom. You
can occaisionally open the valve to drain out a few ounces of slop and
throw it on top of the grain bed, if you have problems like mine. Maybe
it will all be moot when/if I up the flow rate.
> Reguarding timing the boosts: I don't worry about a slowish boost to
> mashout since there should be very little enzyme activity during the boost.
It's not so much the slowness of the boost but when which part of the wort
sees the boost. If you do a 30' rest and your recirculation time is 15',
different parts of the mash may see each temperature for very different
amounts of time, depending on exactly where you begin each boost in relation
to the "phase" of the recirculation.
I hope my discussion of my RIMS problems doesn't turn anyone off of the
concept. I already love it. My 2nd and 3rd batches went very well, and
even the 1st was not that bad. It's fun to build, fun to use, and it is
much easier to use than my 3 tier was. I expect it to be more reproducible
too.
Here's one nice thing about it as an example, and as a tidbit. In the
Fix 40-60-70 schedule, boiling water is suggested as an aid to a rapid
40-60 boost. With the old style system, it was tough to add the water
and stir without feeling like some parts of the mash were being over
heated. A little back-of-the-envelope calculation produced the method
I've used with my RIMS so far:
My wort exits the heater at the beginning of the boost at 45C (inlet=40C).
I dough in with .25 gallons/lb of water, and add .08-.09 gallons/lb of
boiling water during this boost, to result in .33 gallons/lb during
saccharification (a typical thickness). One will see that an extra
one third volume is added. I trickle in the boiling water at about
1/3 the recirculation rate. In theory, a first pass estimate of the
resulting temperature is (3*45C+1*100C)/4=59C. This is quite close
to the practice. In other words, each part of the wort has an
essentially instant transition from 40 to 60C, even though it has
taken me ~10' to get the whole mash done.
- --
Jeremy Bergsman
jeremybb at leland.stanford.edu
http://www-leland.stanford.edu/~jeremybb
Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 12:07:26 -0000
From: "Mort O'Sullivan" <tarwater at brew-master.com>
Subject: hop varieties
>Looking for: Origin, Type (Aroma, Bittering, Dual), Avg.Alpha Acid %,
>storage stability, usually used in ......, any comments.
> Bullion
> Magnum
> Early Green
Some of this information was previously posted on the HBD. For a
summary of the hop info that was posted, see:
http://www.interlog.com/~ajrobert/brewery/hops.html
Below are some of my notes on these varieties:
Bullion
- ------
- --Growing regions: England, Germany, Belgium, USA
- --Avg Alpha-Acid: 7-9%
- --Usage: Dual-purpose (primarily bittering)
- --Growing Notes: susceptible to both Verticillium wilt and Downy
mildew (this is only of marginal interest to most brewers but it can
affect price as it requires more effort to grow).
- --Notes: Bred by ES Salmon at Wye College in 1938. He was famous for
crossing English hops with American hops to boost alpha-acid content
of new varieties. Consequently, Bullion has a strong "American" aroma
which some brewer like and some don't.
Magnum
- --------
- --Growing regions: Germany and USA
- --Avg Alpha-Acid: ~12%
- --Usage: Dual
- --Growing notes: Very tolerant to Verticillium wilt. Generally have
high yields. Increasing rapidly as percentage of world crop.
- --Notes: Round, smooth aroma; more herbal than citrusy. Used primarily
as extract or pellets.
Early Green
- -----------
I don't have detailed info on this hop variety, but I know it has been
crossed with Hallertauer Mittelfruh, Cascade, and Brewer's Gold to
produce Crystal. Anyone have more detailed information?
- ----------------
Cheers,
Mort O'Sullivan
Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 07:42:35 EST
From: DGofus <DGofus at aol.com>
Subject: Mail Order beer of the month
I am thinking about getting a subscription to one of the beer of the month
clubs. Has any body got any advice or had any dealings with them. I would like
it ifd they make it possible to order the beers that they send. Lets say i
love the road tar imperial sout from himhawville Neb, can I get an order from
them or is that not possible? TIa . Private e-mail OK
Bob Fesmire
Madman Brewery
Pottstown, PA
Dgofus at aol.com
Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 08:57:00 -0500
From: ejb11 at psu.edu (Edward J. Basgall)
Subject: 29 mm crown caps
Hi Dave and collective - FYI,
I called Shirley at Country Wines re: my quest for 29 mm crown caps and
unfortunately all she knew about were regular sized caps for small mouthed
champagne bottles. She has a 29 mm adapter for cappers that allows them to
handle the thicker bottle necks. I guess I'll have to keep looking and
check with European friends. The Belgians must get them from somewhere.
cheers
ed
*******************************************************************
Ed Basgall
1176 S. Atherton St.
State College, PA 16801
Ph: (814) 867-1624
work Ph: (814) 863-1249
State College Underground Maltsters
(SCUM)
ejb11 at psu.edu http://www.personal.psu.edu/ejb11/
*******************************************************************
Privilege does not absolve one of ecological responsibility.
Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 09:08:23 -0500
From: ejb11 at psu.edu (Edward J. Basgall)
Subject: Dutch beer answers
Hi Laura,
I forwarded your question to a Dutch friend....
>Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 21:43:41 EST
>From: LBarrowman <LBarrowman at aol.com>
>Subject: help ID'ing Dutch beer
>
>My husband brought me a Dutch beer from the Netherlands that has me stumped.
>It doesn't have a label but is wrapped in tissue paper printed as follows:
>
>Met de beste wesen van Brouwerij't IJ Amsterdam
>extra speciaal ijndejaarsbier
>voorzichtig doch vastberaden uitschenken
>inh.33 cl. cat.s alc.9 vol.%
>bier van hoge gisting
>ad usum internum
>minstens houdbaar tot enid '98
>met nagisting op fles
>
>If anyone has a clue as to what I can expect from this beer I would appreciate
>whatever you can share. Also, I am planning to share it (and some other
>identifiable' yummie beers) with some friends this Saturday. I hope it is
>ready....
>Laura - Charlotte NC
And his reply..
The beer is a special 'end of year' beer (Dutch people will find any occasion
OK to brew a special beer.) The brewery is called " 't IJ" in Amsterdam. The
IJ is a small river in Amsterdam. What I will do is contact the office in The
Netherlands to see if they can find out an address.
Found more info on Web:
http://www.tiac.net/users/tjd/bier/hollmast.html
Brouwerij t'IJ Proeflokaal (proeflokaal = tasting room)
Funenkade 7
Out on the Eastern Dock (Ooster Dok), near where the Singelgracht lets out. is
named after the cannal "HET IJ" where the Amsterdam harbour is situated.
beers are mostly in the abbey-style (doubles and triples and the like), but
also sometimes including a unique twist on Pilsner, "Plzen." , Winter Beer,
IJndjaars bier (The end of the Year beer), Paasbier (Easter Beer)
etc. Their normal beers (from 5% up till 9%) are called Struis, Columbus,
Natte and Zatte (Dutch names) which you can get in bottles.
In Amsterdam, to drink t'Ij beers from a keg, go straight to the brewery.
The brewery is located at the Funenkade in Amsterdam east (just a 15 minute
walk from the central station. They are open 2-8pm? as a tasting room, but
it is more like a pub. From the Centraal Station, facing it, go towards the
right on bus 22. Go about 5 stops or so and get off at the windmill.
That's t'Ij. Hours used to be 3 to 8 PM, Tues-Sat;
regards, Marc
cheers
ed
*******************************************************************
Ed Basgall
1176 S. Atherton St.
State College, PA 16801
Ph: (814) 867-1624
work Ph: (814) 863-1249
State College Underground Maltsters
(SCUM)
ejb11 at psu.edu http://www.personal.psu.edu/ejb11/
*******************************************************************
Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 14:58:13 +0100
From: Lars <skyking at e193.ryd.student.liu.se>
Subject: re: the slow-mead myth
In HBD #2657 Dick Dunn wrote:
>> I would like you to enlighten me what everybody seem to make wrong...
>It's not "everybody"...a lot of folks are able to make meads that are ready
>very quickly and that don't have off-tastes even when young. But there are
>enough people who haven't had this sort of experience that there is a per-
>sistent myth that meads take multiple years.
Well I didn't mean "everybody" to be taken literally. I've found that
a quite general oppinion is that mead will require about a half year
of maturation after bottling.
>>...I
>> can't say I'm a experienced mead maker, but when I did a mead it took
>> quite a time to carbonate. It took even longer to mellow tastes and I
>> would say it hasn't done that yet.
>Slow carbonation in mead is often the result of a long fermentation/
>clearing period, where the yeast start to go dormant and a lot fall out so
>that it takes a while to get enough of a population going again to prime
>the mead. The other cause is that with a strong mead you may be pushing
>the alcohol tolerance of the yeast. These two factors can work together.
>The need to mellow tastes is of more concern, but we'd have to dive into
>trying to analyze the tastes before it became clear whether it's a young
>mead taste _vs_ an off-taste. This is difficult, although there is one
>particular off-taste that people can generally agree on--they tend to call
>it "mouthwash" or "Listerine". That one is definitely a fault that can
>be avoided by choice of yeast and reasonable fermentation temperatures.
The problem seem to be that both off-tastes and young tastes can both
be unpleasant and it's not easy to tell what is a off-taste and what
is a young taste if both tend to mellow out with maturation. I think
however spicyness in a methegiln is to be regarded as a young taste
(maybe I'm pointing on the difference between young and off tastes
since the spicyness is not supposed to mellow away)
>The three main culprits for off-tastes that take a while to age out are
>an inappropriate yeast, excessive nutrient, and too-high fermentation
>temperatures. (And yes, I've committed all of these sins myself. I had a
>pomegranate melomel that took over two years to be reasonably drinkable.)
Since you pointed out some origins of off-tastes it would be nice if
you also stated your point of view regarding which yeast is
appropriate, how much nutrient one should use (is low nutrition as
bad?) and what temperature one should aim at.
/Lars
Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 09:23:31 -0500
From: Herbert Bresler <bresler.7 at osu.edu>
Subject: San Diego brews
Dear Homebrewers and Beer Lovers,
Excellent forum, this HBD. Today I need help of a different kind.....
I want to know where I should go to sample local brews in San Diego,
California. I'm going to be there the end of this month and would like to
visit the best brewpubs. If there is a local Homebrewing club that happens
to be meeting while I'm there (3/25 - 3/29/98), even better. I also would
like to know where there is a good beverage store to buy a bottle or two of
brews that I cannot find here in Ohio. I'll be staying at the harbor
downtown, but I'll have a car at least part of the time. I'll also be
making a trip to Carlsbad for a day. ===> Can any of you San Diego locals
please help me out? Private e-mails are okay. Thanks in advance.
Herb
bresler.7 at osu.edu
Columbus, Ohio
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Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 09:21:40 -0500
From: Herbert Bresler <bresler.7 at osu.edu>
Subject: Pistachio Porter
On Sat, 7 Mar, Steve Gabrio asked about pistachio nuts in homebrew:
>The other day I was drinking a porter and eating pistachios. The two
>flavors complimented each other well. So...
> - Has anybody tried brewing with pistachios?
> - Would they work best in the mash, boil or fermentor?
> - What quantity would be needed for a 5 gallon batch?
>TIA
>Steve Gabrio
>gabrio at premier1.net
>Everett, WA
>You can't be a Real Country unless you have A BEER and an airline-
>it helps if you have some kind of a football team, or some nuclear
>weapons, but at the very least you need a BEER.
>
> - Frank Zappa
Steve,
Hmmm, pistachios, porter and Frank Zappa. Could it be we are really twins
separated at birth? With out a dount, my favorite beer style is porter. I
love the roasted nutty flavor in a good porter even though there are no
nuts actually in it. Your suggestion seems like a natural extension of the
style pushed to it's extreme, as we homebrewers are want to do. I hope the
following is helpful.
I ran across a recipe for pistachio Munich helles in, of all places, the
latest issue of Brew Your Own ("A Truly Nutty Beer" March 1998, vol. 4, no.
3, pp. 9-10). Scott Russell described how to get nut flavor into his
homebrewed helles. He chose Munich helles because it says it allows the nutty
flavor to come through. He used 2 cups of shelled unsalted pistachios for
5 gal of beer. He crushed the nuts very finely (coffee or spice grinder)
and then tightly sealed the crushed nuts in a jar with 4 ounces of grain
alcohol (or vodka). He let it sit "a few weeks" before brewing. He
filtered the pistachio liquor and put half in the secondary and added the
other half at bottling. He says you can make nut extract this way from
about any nuts you like. His helles was even tinged slightly green. I
have not tried this, but it sounds reasonable; I have made fruit extracts
using a very similar method. YMMV. If anyone has tried this or similar
method with nuts, please let us know the results. And, Steve, if you come
up with a good nutty porter, please post the full recipe for the rest of
us.
Good luck and good brewing to you all,
Herb
bresler.7 at osu.edu
Columbus, Ohio
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Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 08:37:16 -0600
From: Vachom <MVachow at newman.k12.la.us>
Subject: Steven Jones "Wort Aeration" 3/9/98
Okay, now I'm interested. Satisfied in the past with the practical
results of my own version of the Bernoulli principle at work in aerating
wort, I'm now interested in discovering if anyone has any hard data on
the efficiency of various aeration methods. My method-- a few small
holes in a piece of copper tubing of smaller diameter than the racking
tube--and Mr. Jones method--leave spigot fitting on bottom of boiling
barrel loose--are essentially the same. The practical advantages are
clear: dirt cheap (free in Jones' case), adds no extra time to brew
process, easy clean-up. But, judging from the recent string of posts on
the cleaning of air stones and the construction of in-line systems, I
can tell that many of the posters on this digest obviously go to much
greater and more expensive lengths to aerate wort: pumps, pure oxygen,
air stones. Perhaps someone has some scientific data comparing aeration
methods. . .
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Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 09:37:36 -0500
From: Greg_Young at harcourtbrace.com (Greg Young)
Subject: Backyard Barley
Howdy, all. Well, I recently got my father into homebrewing, and I'm pleased to
say he's really running with it. He's really into gardening, and last year I
persuaded him to grow some hops for me. Now that he's brewing himself, he
thought it would be kinda cool to do a homebrew in the true sense of the
word--with all homegrown ingredients...including homegrown and home-malted
barley. Has anyone given backyard barley-growing a shot? Any general cultivation
info, yield expectations ('crop' yields, not starch), etc... would be great. Or,
if anyone can suggest another resource I could look to for help, that'd be great
too--my 'net searches have only come up with commercial scale information.
Thanks in advance.....
Greg Young
Philly, PA
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Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 09:57:55 -0500
From: Jeff Grey <jgrey at cbg.com>
Subject: HSA
Hello All,
I have recently built a RIMS system that for the most part been happy
with. However in my first two batches I have noticed an off flavor. I
am currently getting some air into one of the lines and I am wondering
if this could be the cause of the off flavor. Unfortunately I cannot
describe the flavor. I was wondering if someone would be able describe
what kind of off taste HSA would contribute. I have tracked down the
source of air getting into the line an I am in the process of fixing it.
Any help would be appreciated.
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Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 10:02:01 -0400
From: Mark Swenson <swenson at aoml.noaa.gov>
Subject: Malt Syrups...low protein?
In a post from:
>From: Jim Bentson <jbentson at htp.net>
>Subject: Re: Irish Moss and Unread References
He says:
>Fix goes further. He states 'Irish Moss is not recommended for
>protein-deficient worts. Those produced from malt syrup are an example.'
Is it true that malt extracts are known to be low in proteins? If so, why
are the extracts processed this way? Could this account for the low foam
stability my "extract plus specialty grain" beers exhibit? If so, will
malted wheat extract and/or malto-dextrine powder help compensate, or is
doing a partial or full mash the only indicated adjustment?
Thanks,
Mark Swenson
Key Biscayne, FL
Miami Area Society of Homebrewers
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Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 09:04:13 -0600
From: "MICHAEL L. TEED" <MS08653 at msbg.med.ge.com>
Subject: Need NAOH cleaning advice
.int homebrew at hbd.org
Greetings to the collective from a lurker. A couple quick questions
and I will return to the darkness. I would like to occasionally
clean my 1/2 bbl rims using red devil lye. The system is plumbed
with brass gate valves which have been processed with vinegar and
hydrogen peroxide and copper tubing. What effect would this cleaning
have on the plumbing? What contact times would be appropriate, and
at what concentrations. Mucho thanks for your first rate advice.
MT
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Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 10:06:34 -0500
From: "Clifford A. Hicks" <simtech at ka.net>
Subject: Bottle Carbonation
I have a batch of Pappazian's "Holiday Cheer" ale in secondary fermentation.
After a few days, all fermentation appears to have ceased. I have lowered
the temperature to 32F to help clear the beer. At this point, after the beer
has cleared, I usually keg and force carbonate. But this time I want to
bottle and naturally carbonate. If I add priming sugar and bottle and then
store bottles at room temperature, will carbonation take place? I fear that
there will be no yeast left to do the job (having fallen out during the
chill). Will it just take longer to carbonate or is it a lost cause? I hate
the idea of having to add yeast again. Please advise. Thanks! Cliff -
simtech at ka.net
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Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 10:04:58 EST
From: PVanslyke <PVanslyke at aol.com>
Subject: stopper sizes
Greg,
I had this info on file, just don't remember where I got it from.
Hole Size Stopper# Dimensions (bottom - top)
- -----------------------------------------------------
3/4" A #2 5/8 - 13/16
1" B #5 15/16 - 1 1/16"
1 1/16" C #5.5 31/32 - 1 1/8"
1 1/8" D #6 1 1/16 - 1 1/4"
1 3/16" E #6.5 1 3/32 - 1 5/16"
1 1/4" F #7 1 3/16 - 1 7/16"
1 6/16" G #7.5 1 7/32 - 1 17/32"
1 1/2" H #8 1 5/16 - 1 5/8"
1 5/8" I #8.5 1 13/32 - 1 11/16"
1 11/16" J #9 1 1/2 - 1 3/4"
1 3/4" K #9.5 1 15/32 - 1 25/32"
1 7/8" L #10 1 21/32 - 1 31/32"
1 15/16" M #10.5 1 3/4 - 2 1/32"
2" N #11 1 7/8 - 2 3/16"
2 1/8" O #11.5 1 7/8 - 2 7/16"
2 1/4" P #12 2 1/8 - 2 1/2"
2 1/2" Q #13 2 9/32 - 2 11/16"
3 1/4" R #14 2 15/16 - 3 9/16"
3 3/4" S #15 3 1/4 - 4 1/16"
>From a recent McMaster-Carr catalog (all dimensions inches):
Size Large Small Hole
End Dia End Dia Dia
00 9/16 3/8 1/8
0 11/16 1/2 1/8
1 3/4 9/16 5/32
2 13/16 5/8 13/64
3 15/16 11/16 "
4 1 25/32 "
5 1-1/16 7/8 "
6 1-1/4 1 "
7 1-7/16 1-3/16 "
8 1-5/8 1-5/16 "
9 1-3/4 1-7/16 "
10 1-15/16 1-5/8 "
Please note that this table applies to rubber stoppers and that cork stoppers
of the same "number" are of different size. I have no idea whether this
table is "standard".
Paul VanSlyke >> brewin' and relaxin' in Deposit, NY
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Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 10:21:18 EST
From: PVanslyke <PVanslyke at aol.com>
Subject: Molasses
Joe,
I bewed a porter a couple years ago with a full cup in a 5 gallon batch. The
molasses taste was over-powering at bottling but had subsided some 2 months
later and made for a tasty brew as it mellowed further through out the
following year.
Paul VanSlyke >> brewin' and relaxin' in Deposit, NY
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Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 07:35:12 -0800 (PST)
From: Domenick Venezia <demonick at zgi.com>
Subject: Goldings / powdery sensation
#2657, "Robert D. Dittmar" <Robert.D.Dittmar at stls.frb.org>
>I have often been disappointed in British ales for having what I think
>of as a clinging, cloying sugary taste. I even feel it on my tongue
>as a kind of crystalline sensation as if I have a mouth full of sugar
>crystals.
I think that what Robert is describing is the sulfate powdery, dryness
that Burton style British ales exhibit. This is a front of the mouth
dryness imparted by large amounts of sulfate contributed by gypsum and
epsom in the Burton well waters.
The cloying sugary taste may be diacetyl which some British ales have in
considerable amounts. It is a separate issue from the dryness.
Cheers!
Domenick Venezia demonick at zgi.antispam.com (remove .antispam)
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Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 10:40:43 -0500
From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu>
Subject: Re: Cleaning Sanke Kegs
In Homebrew Digest #2657 (March 10, 1998), "S. Wesley"
<sWesley at maine.maine.edu> asked about cleaning and kegging in Sankeys. I
tried to reply privately, but it bounced.
I've been kegging in these (Sankey kegs) about 18 years. First, *release
all pressure* by pressing down on the ball valve or you'll get your teeth
full of a heavy valve and draw tube assembly when you release it. Hold a
rag over it or you will get a face full of stale beer. Then, using a small
screwdriver, pry out the flat retaining ring. Next, using the jaws of a
pair of pliers as a tool, turn the valve to the left maybe 30 degrees, and
lift it out. It takes less time to do it than to describe it. Soak the
inside with bleach water for a few hours and boil the valve/drawtube to
sanitize it. Rinse, fill with beer, reverse the above steps, The hard
part is re-installing the flat retaining ring. You have to press down to
compress th O-ring (which is under the valve). To do this, I put a
plumbing part called a reducing coupler (I think) on top of the valve, hook
a board under the lip of the keg top, across the coupler as a fulcrum, and
sit on the other end. Then I force the ring into its slot by twisting a
wide screwdriver blade in the gap against the coupler until it's home. It
takes me about 30 seconds. You'll need to get a tap, of course. I keg
about half of my beers in these, the rest in 5 gallon Cornelius (soda)
canisters, which have the advantage of being easier to fill and seal, using
cheaper taps, and taking up less room in the fridge. Of course, they hold
less.
Good luck. -Jeff
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Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 10:41:26 -0500
From: mcnallyg at gam83.npt.nuwc.navy.mil (Jeff)
Subject: RIMS flowrate and suction pressure questions
Hi All,
I am in the process of putting together a direct fired, manual
control, RIMS and have a few questions about flow rates and suction
pressure on the false bottom.
First off, the mash/lauter tun is a converted Sankey keg with an
11.5 inch diameter SS false bottom from Hartland Homebrew/ABT. I
have also mounted a glass sight tube to the outside of the tun just
outside the keg wall and upstream of the ball valve.
I just got the entire thing assembled this past weekend and decided
to do some dT/dt and flowrate tests using 5 gallons of water in the
tun (no grains).
Using the sight glass, I marked the liquid level with the pump off
and the valves closed. After getting the flow started, I set the ball
valve downstream of the pump so that the liquid level in the sight
glass dropped about 2 to 3 inches. At this "suction pressure" the
flow rate was only about 1/2 gallon/minute. With grain in the tun I
assume the flowrate will be even lower given the same "suction
pressure".
Is this about the right "suction pressure"? What would be the max
"suction pressure" that I could use (with grain in the tun) and not
compact the grain bed? Is a flowrate of 1/2 gallon/minute sufficient
to prevent scorching of the wort/grain on the bottom of the tun (the
false bottom does not cover the entire bottom of the tun)?
With my 170K BTU (Metal Fusion) ring burner set almost as low as it
would go without the wind blowing it out, I was able to heat the 5 gal
of water at about 2 to 3 degF/minute. Since 5 gal of water has about
the same thermal mass as a "typical" mash (for a 5 gal batch), is this
dT/dt about right for temp boosts?
I plan on using the burner only for temp boosts and not for
continuously maintaining the rest temps. In this case, are there any
pros or cons associated with *not* running the pump while the burner
is off?
Any words of wisdom from anyone with a similar RIMS setup?
Long live the HBD!
Hoppy brewing,
Jeff
============================================================================
Geoffrey A. McNally Phone: (401) 841-7210 x21390
Mechanical Engineer Fax: (401) 841-7250
Launcher Technology and email: mcnallyg at gam83.npt.nuwc.navy.mil
Analysis Branch
Naval Undersea Warfare Center
Code 8322; Bldg. 1246/2
Newport, RI 02841-1708
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