---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com


Contents:
  Legislating morality... (Some Guy)
  RE: Can beer fight cancer? (John Wilkinson)
  Czech Malt Specs ("Lynne O'Connor")
  Re: Using Jalapenos (Daniel Lucksinger)
  re: Puffy Eye Allergy ("The Nelson's")
  Bulkhead fittings (Ludwig)
  Labels, Left Coast (Marya Bolyanatz)
  Silicone Tubing / Misc Qs / No Hands Electric HLT (Kyle Druey)
  Soured stout (Spencer W Thomas)
  Rusty Stainless ("Steven Jones")
  Repositionable Labels and Filtering comments (Chas Peterson)
  Priming / Don't Be Shellfish (John Varady)
  Re: rice malt & bakers yeast (Jeff Renner)
  Adjuncts (Tim Holland)
  Home Malting, oxygenation,American Pilsners ("David R. Burley")
  Priming Issues / Humor (Paul Ward)
  Re: RE Malt Extract Database (errata) (brian_dixon)
  Re: Munton's Maris Otter Malt ("Shawn Andrews")
  Soilmaster Cleaner (John Palmer)
  What factors effect carbonation? ("Michael Kowalczyk")
  Yeast FAQ (Anton Schoenbacher)
  Re: Rolling Rock (second try) (Jeff Renner)
  Recipe Help (Jonathan Ingram)
  Breiss 2 row Questions ("Frederick L. Pauly")
  Source for Just About Everything (KennyEddy)




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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 17:46:47 -0500 (EST)
From: Some Guy <pbabcock at oeonline.com>
Subject: Legislating morality...

Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your legislator...

In perusing Friday, 20 Mar 1998 Detroit News, buried in a small column 
article in Sec 5A, I believe, I got my dander up:

Well, they're at it again. Rep. Juanita Millender-McDonald (California) 
has sponsored a bill to heavily penalize UPS (or any other carrier) should
alcohol delivered by them end up in the hands of a juvenile. In affect,
she says there is already a law precluding the consumption of alcohol by
minors. This law is just to "...make sure..." (Full text of the article at
http://detnews.com/1998/nation/9803/20/03200146.htm).

Though altruistic and noble, this isn't the job of government. It's the 
job of the parents. (My opinion. Yours may differ...)

Anyway, the result I see coming of this is that we will be villified in 
our attempts to hold competitions. If the carrier is at risk in carrying 
an alcoholic beverage, you will not have a carrier willing to deliver it. 
So, unless you or someone else (who becomes at risk for delivering your 
goods...) is willing to drive your entries to competition, I see it as 
being all over. No nationals, no MCAB, no regional competitions. Only 
local. Think about it.

I don't condone minors drinking alcohol, but I'm damned sick of the
short-sighted legislation that results from do-good <political affiliation
deleted> trying to enact laws to erradicate the necessity of your
exercising your conscience. Sick and tired of laws being enacted on top of
other laws for the same purpose. Laws don't make you law-abiding. Your
conscience does. And if the current law isn't good enough, tossing another
on top of it isn't going to solve the problem. You simply can't make
people good just by making it "more illegal" for them to be bad. That way
there be tygers.  That way, you lose rights that the politician never even
conceived the existence of. 
 
Think about it. Then, perhaps, write your representatives and senators 
and let them know how their current foray into the legislation of 
morality will interfere with your hobby. Or not. The choice is, as 
always, yours...

See ya!

Pat Babcock in SE Michigan         pbabcock at oeonline.com
Home Brew Digest Janitor           janitor@hbd.org
HBD Web Site                       http://hbd.org   
The Home Brewing Page              http://oeonline.com/~pbabcock/brew.html




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Date: Mon, 23 Mar 98 17:52:09 CST
From: jwilkins at wss.dsccc.com (John Wilkinson)
Subject: RE: Can beer fight cancer?

Mark Weaver wrote:

>A recent 30 year study of 35,000 French men who drank
>three glasses of wine a day, had no cancer what-so-ever,
>even if they smoked... Anything over three glasses and they
>had problems with their livers, anything under three glasses
>and the effects were greatly diminished.

What I wonder is where did they find a statistically significant number of
French men who drank less than three glasses of wine a day.

John Wilkinson - Grapevine, Texas - jwilkins at wss.dsccc.com


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Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 19:02:00 -0600
From: "Lynne O'Connor" <stpats at wixer.bga.com>
Subject: Czech Malt Specs

I would like to correct a misstatement by Jim Liddil in last week's
digest.  Jim wrote  "I recently got some Czech malt and the spec sheet
was largely blank except for a listing for the kolbach index."

As the exclusive importer and distributor of Czech Moravian malt and the
one who provided Jim with the lot analysis, I  (St. Patrick's of Texas
Brewers Supply) would refer readers to the spec sheets available on our
website http:stpats.com (both html and pdf available).  

The specs for pils malt include the data from 7 different physical
measurements including acrospire length (72% 1/2-3/4, 24% 3/4-1) as well
as the data from 12 different chemical measurements [Color of laboratory
wort 3.7 EBC, Moisture 4.7%, Friability 92%, Homogeneity 98.3%, glassy
grains .8%, Kolbach 43.9,  extract dry basis fine grind 81.6%, extract
dry basis as is 77.7%, conversion time <10
minutes, Filtration clear, Total Protein dry basis 10.2%, Odor of mash:
normal]

Other than the data from these 19 tests as well as details as to when
and where and by whom the tests were conducted, the pils lot analysis
sheet is largely blank  :-) 

On a related note:  The spec sheets for Hugh Baird and German malts that
we sell are now available at http://stpats.com  Typical specs for Briess
malts can be obtained at http://briess.com

Another container of Czech malt is currently sitting in the port of
Houston waiting to clear customs.  We have extended the line to include
pils, vienna, light and dark munich, and 3 crystals.  Lot analyis for
these malts will be posted to the web site shortly.

Lynne O'Connor
St. Patrick's of Texas Brewers Supply
http://stpats.com
stpats at wixer.bga.com


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Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 18:31:21 -0700 (MST)
From: danielpl at holly.colostate.edu (Daniel Lucksinger)
Subject: Re: Using Jalapenos

I have used jalapenos in two batches so far and have been very happy with
the results.  Of course I love jalapenos in just about anything though.  I
used 1/4 lb. in both batches.  The heat was about perfect for me, but you
may want to adjust by and ounce or two.  In the second batch I roasted the
peppers first, by blackening them over a fire like a marshmallow, which I
thought improved the aroma tremendously.  I've also heard of people smoking
them.  I removed all the seeds and diced them after the outside was charred
and just dropped them in the secondary.
good luck,
daniel

On Fri, 20 Mar 1998
Jack & Chris Duncan wrote:
>I have searched the HBD archives and Cats Meow for info on using jalapeno
>peppers, without finding a complete answer.  Has anyone used these peppers,
>had success using them, can say how many they used, AND how they used the
>peppers?




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Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 19:42:13 -0700
From: "The Nelson's" <gnelson at coffey.com>
Subject: re: Puffy Eye Allergy

Douglas P. Keith wrote "Sometimes when I drink certain kinds of beer my
right eye puffs up.  It has happened from Full Sail Winter and a certain
batch of homebrew also.
Has anyone else experienced this same phenomenon, or does anyone know
what I can do about it?

This happens to me also; I drink several Full Sail Winter or some
certain kinds of homebrew, I say something to the guy on the next stool,
and "bam", my right eye swells up. ;)

Jerry Nelson







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Date: Sat, 04 Apr 1998 23:04:47 -0500
From: Ludwig <dludwig at us.hsanet.net>
Subject: Bulkhead fittings

Jim Hodge wrote:

> but I have installed compression fittings in both aluminum
> and stainless steel pots.  What you want is known as a bulkhead fitting. 
> Both Swagelock and Parker make a variety of these guys with various
> combinations of compression fittings and NPT threads on one or both ends. 
> Pick one that's going to be compatible with your valve.

Here is what I've used to install ball valves on my 5 gallon
ceramic-on-steel hot liquor tank and 8 gallon boil pot. Method is same
for both. Get a fitting with a male pipe thread. For both my pots, I use
90 deg brass fitting with a male NPT pipe thread on one end (this goes
through the hole) and a flare fitting on the other end for accesories.
For 3/8 inch fittings, take a brass washer and ream it out to just fit
over the pipe thread and seat on the flat where the threads end. The
washers I use for this size fitting have a 7/8 inch OD. Solder a bead
around the joint between the washer and the fitting (side opposite the
threads). Avoid getting solder into the threads. Make absolutely sure
the washer is seated square with the fitting. I use a 1 1/2 diameter
wire brush on a drill press to clean up the part after soldering. Get an
o-ring. I was worried about the heat tolerance of hardware store o-rings
so I went to a auto parts store, thinking that their stuff might be more
heat tolerant and indeed they appeared shinier and stiffer. The clerk
thought the o-rings were nitrile but then changed his mind. Somewhere I
have a spec sheet for o-rings and I think nitrile is rated at 250 deg F.
Anyway, for the 3/8 inch fitting, I bought 5/8 ID x 3/32 thick
o-rings.On the outside of the pot I use a fiber washer followed by the
ball valve. The fiber washer protects the pot finish. Apply some teflon
tape to the pipe thread after inserting the fitting through the pot
wall, then install and tighten the ballvalve (or whatever) while holding
the inside part of the fitting (with o-ring) stationary. If you tighten
against the o-ring, it will be under shear and deform. Inside the boil
pot, I attach a 4 inch length of copper pipe with a flared end to the 90
deg fitting. Attached to this is a 20 inch length of stainless steel
water line braided sheething (minus the tube) secured with a hose clamp
and folded on the end. Now because the fitting is 90 deg, the braided
pickup goes around the perimeter of the pot and the entire assembly is
neatly out of the way of my immersion chiller. After two batches, both
pots have had no leaks. The o-rings show no signs of distress even after
60 minute boils using the standard king cooker type burner. Making these
fittings takes a little practice, though. It took me several attempts to
get just the right amount of bead. 

Dave Ludwig


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Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 21:13:35 -0800
From: Marya Bolyanatz <mbolyana at slonet.org>
Subject: Labels, Left Coast

Comment on labels,
When I bottle, which is not often, I mostly keg, I use half liter
bottles obtained from my local bar. They save bottles for home brewers.
I then soak off the labels, apply avery label, then toss them into the
recycling bin - single use. that way the bottles are always easy to
clean, and I don't have to hassle getting off my own labels. No Problem.

On the subject of "Left Coast"...
I noticed Randy in Modesto used this term the other day. I have only
heard the term used in reference to "parretheads".(Jimmy Buffett fans)
Any other Parrot heads out there?

Murdoc in SLO

- --
Murdoc Brewing Co.
Most awarded small brewery
in SLO




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Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 23:31:42 -0800
From: Kyle Druey <druey at ibm.net>
Subject: Silicone Tubing / Misc Qs / No Hands Electric HLT

A few weeks ago Spencer posted some info on Silicone Tubing.  I found
many suppliers, but only McMaster-Carr sells it by the foot:

http://www.mcmaster.com/webcat/catalog.html

When you are at their website you will need to do a search for "silicone
tubing", then select "braided-reinforced silicone tubing".  You will
need to download Adobe Acrobat to view the catalog.  They are selling
3/8" OD Norton translucent silicone tubing for $0.95 per foot.  It is
rated at 400 F, and can be *sterilized* in the over after 45' at 350 F.
I plan on using it for draining my chilled wort from the boiler to the
fermenter, and for emptying the fermented beer into a keg.
****************************

Does anyone use One Step cleaner/sanitizer or Oxine and can post back
results of effectiveness?

Anyone have a kilning schedule for making Munich Dark at home?

****************************

Just finished making my electric hot liquor tank equipped with a
stirrer. It has an electric heating element and thermometer mounted on
the side of a bucket, with a top mounted DC motor/stirrer.  Insulation
is not needed because the plastic bucket insulates the heat very well,
not to mention that the dimmer switch is turned to low to account for
heat losses once the set temp is reached.  The no hands electric HLT
Keeps the temp evenly distributed and all I have to do is drop in the
lactic acid through a small hole in the lid to acidify the sparge
water.  The water level inside the 6.5 gallon bucket is easily seen from
the outside, thus obviating the need for a sight gauge.  The no hands
electric HLT is a piece of equipment that is easy to make, fairly
inexpensive, and highly recommended.  Extract, partial grain, or hot
water infusion all grainers could use this piece of equipment.  This
would be a good "rookie" project to complete before making your RIMS so
as to minimize those RIMS lessons learned.  

Kyle Druey
Bakersfield, CA


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Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 02:51:17 -0500
From: Spencer W Thomas <spencer at engin.umich.edu>
Subject: Soured stout

The latest Zymurgy has an article on Guinness which makes the
following claims:

* "Draft" Guiness and Guinness Extra Stout are NOT soured "according
to sources at Guinness USA and at the St. James Gate brewery."  

* Guinness Foreign Extra Stout does have an admixture of a bit of
"stock" stout that has been aged in oak fermenters, and has some
"Brett" character (and presumably sourness).  Unfortunately, FES is
NOT available in the US.

Is anyone in a position to confirm or deny either of these?  Rampant
speculation is discouraged.

=Spencer Thomas in Ann Arbor, MI        (spencer at umich.edu)


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Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 06:47:47 -0500
From: "Steven Jones" <stjones1 at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Rusty Stainless



I've acquired an old Sanke keg which has some rust inside
on the lower weld. Does anyone know how to get rid of 
the rust, and how to "season" the stainless to prevent the
rust from coming back? I'd like to use this keg as a boiling 
kettle or a mash tun.

sj


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Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 07:57:28 -0500
From: Chas Peterson <chasp at digex.net>
Subject: Repositionable Labels and Filtering comments

HBDers -

I wanted to thank Jim for seeking out what appears to be a decent
alternative to labeling beer.  I've always found it a PIA to put a coded
sticker on the top of each bottle.  I know what it means, but my guests
don't.  "Say Chas, whats a SZB? Or a APA, or..." you know what I mean.  One
question though, how did the ink-jet perform.  I attempted to make labels
with this kind of printer before, but found them to bleed ALOT.  Is the
label made for injets, like the toothed tranparancies?

Also, just one comment on Jim's filtering observation.  I too found that
filtering will *clean* up the flavor of lighter beers quickly, but I also
found that this effect is temporary.  Given sufficient time (talking many
weeks here), I found my unfiltered beers to be as clear as the filtered
ones.  The only difference was a slight reduction in bitterness in the
filtered product.  I do admit to using polyclar for unfiltered homebrew.
I might be interesting if AJ had keep a bottle or two unfiltered and
compared the filtered/unfiltered beers for clarity and flavor.  I just want
to warn those those embarking on the filtering journey -- its relatively
expensive for both your pocketbook and more importantly time.

Of course this kind of thinking does not apply well in the commercial
environment where speed is of the essence.

Enjoy,

Chas Peterson
Laytonsville, Md
===========================================================
Chas Peterson					chasp at digex.net
Director - Product Development			301-847-4936
Custom Enterprise Networks


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Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 09:56:21 -0800
From: John Varady <rust1d at usa.net>
Subject: Priming / Don't Be Shellfish

Dave Writes:
>Clinitest use removes that dichotomy, takes less sample
>and does not suffer from the errors common from CO2 in the
>sample which can give a grossly incorrect hydrometer reading.

Grossly incorrect hydrometer readings? From CO2? Perhaps I'm doing
something right, but I have never experienced this.


>versus scrupulously cleaning a bottling bucket, stirrer and
>whatever else, should try this experiment themselves.

This sounds slightly overexaggerated. For some reason, I guess you don't
have to scrupulously clean your funnel, teaspoon, and other necessary
equipment with your method.


>Even if it were longer than washing,
>you reduce the risk of infection and oxidation and get
>consistent carbonation.

I am uncertain about how this would reduce my risk of infection and
oxidation and give better carbonation than batch priming. I bottle from a
carboy and weigh my priming sugar. I purge the carboy with CO2 and add my
priming solution hot so it is less likely to pick up oxygen. Scrupulously
cleaning my carboy entails a couple of day soak in CTSP with my transfer
hose, bottling wand and cane tip inside (I know it is not recommended to
soak in TSP for too long, but I have soaked glass in TSP for over a month
without any deposits. My water is soft).


>starter which is just reaching kraeusen.  Think about it.
>Beginning kraeusen is the point where the CO2 content is
>just reaching saturation.  This means that the error
>( assuming that all this CO2 is lost) will be on the order of
>the CO2 content contained in a pint of beer spread over

How much time is spent watching that starter till it reaches kraeusen? How
far in advance do you have to make up your priming solution? You are
obviously not considering the time spent preparing and waiting for your
priming starter in your equation. Taking this into consideration, your
method takes longer. Not to mention that you cannot bottle on a moments
notice, you have to plan it in advance. I decided to bottle last night and
was done two hours after thinking about it, and that includes bottle washing.

It sounds like your entire starter priming method is done to encourage
carbonation faster. My method to ensure carbonation is to wait. No matter
how long my brew has sat in the primary, I simply bottle as always.
Sometimes it takes several weeks to reach perfect carbonation, but it
always does eventually. If I was patient enough to let it sit in the
primary for 2 months, I ought to be patient enough to wait for it to
carbonate without trying to force it along.

- ---

Enough with the crawyfishdads already! Not only is it getting beat to the
ground, it's making me hungry and they are out of season till next year.
Maybe I can whip up a Muffuletta...

John






John Varady                     http://www.netaxs.com/~vectorsys/varady
Boneyard Brewing                The HomeBrew Recipe Calculating Program
Glenside, PA                    rust1d at usa.net
   



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Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 10:38:45 -0500
From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu>
Subject: Re: rice malt & bakers yeast

in Homebrew Digest #2669 (March 24, 1998), "David Hill"
<davidh at melbpc.org.au> asks

>1.....    if we cannot mash rice without large additions of barley malt in
>order to obtain the saccharification enzymes missing in rice. How is rice
>malt manufactured? Do they use barley enzymes extracted from barley or what?

Rice *malt* is just sprouted rice.  I suppose it could be done.  I suspect
what you really meant to ask is how is rice syrup (or dry extract)
manufactured.  Probably with fungal amylase.  BTW, it doesn't take "large
additions of barley malt" exactly.  You could probaby convert >75% rice
with 6-row barley malt since it has about triple the enzyme level (deg.
Lintner) as British pale malt.

But now to something I do know about:
>2..... What does bakers yeast ferment? Is there some fermentable sugar in
>wheat/rye flour without mashing/malting?

There are some natural sugars in grain.  Furthermore, modern baking flours
have 0.1% malted barley flour (just because it's cheaper than malted wheat)
added to provide amylase which converts the starch in granules that are
damaged by the milling process.  This provides more sugars, but eventually
they will be greatly consumed.  A very well fermented dough will brown off
more slowly and take on a different color from a very young dough.  This is
due to less sugar being available for the complex browning processes.  This
is the typical color of rustic, traditionally fermented breads such as
French peasant loaves or pain de campagne.  It is much less golden - more
brown.

An historical sidenote.  Before modern grain handling and with older
varieties of wheat which were more prone to sprout in the field, flour
contained greatly variable natural amylase levels.  I have grown bread
wheats and had them tested for amylase levels.  Fortunately, they were
within desireable ranges.

Jeff

 -=-=-=-=-
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan c/o nerenner at umich.edu
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943. 




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Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 08:47:56 -0700
From: Tim Holland <tim at mbmgsun.mtech.edu>
Subject: Adjuncts

>From: Vachom <MVachow at newman.k12.la.us>
>Subject: Rolling Rock/Jockamo Stout
>
>	Let's be honest.  Most homebrewers aren't interested in reproducing the
>taste of Rolling Rock; in fact, Rolling Rock and its like are the
>negative motivators for most homebrewers.  Ray Estrella in his post
>#2664 takes me to task for suggesting that the adjuncts commonly used in
>producing light American pilseners like Rolling Rock are difficult for
>homebrewers to work with (I was responding to a post in #2662).  Perhaps
>I'm really out of the loop.  Are there homebrewers out there whipping up
>batches of Coors?  My one and only whole grain rice experience yielded a
>starchy, gluttonous mess and a stuck sparge.  Rice syrup in another brew
>session yielded sour beer and was, according to homebrewing friends who
>smirked when I told them I'd used it, useful only to manufacturers of
>the inferior malt extract to be found in many kits. But I hadn't brewed
>much at that point, so perhaps there were other problems that had
>nothing to do with the ingredients.

Actually, I use adjuncts fairly regularly, and have made American style
beers on several occasions. Flaked barley, corn, rice, and oats all add
different things to different brews.  Rice itself is really not that much
trouble to use.  I cook it in lots of water until it gets soupy and add it
directly to the mash.  The beers I use rice in do however tend to exhibit
more chill haze than others.  Using Irish Moss and fining takes care of most
of that though.

American lagers have a place in my consumption regimen, especially in the
summer, and making them well is also quite a challenge.  Most of mine tend
to have more body, maltyness, and hops than commercial examples, but turn
out to be cheaper to make than most of the other beers I brew.  I brew one
occasionaly because I happen to like what I produce.  It is stronger than
comercial examples and usually generously hopped with lots of Hallertau and
Saaz. 

Acctually, it has been a while since I made one, though I do have an
American Pale Ale in secondary that I used 2 lbs of rice in to extend the
last few pounds of grain I had on hand.  It looks very promising so far.
Will know better in a week or so.

I don't enter competions though, so I don't know how well recieved some of
my brews would be recieved, but I've never had anyone turn down a second
fill either.

>	I noticed a piece in the Spring Zymurgy on a Houston competition that
>featured a tongue in cheek malt liquor category.  The winner arrived in
>40 oz. bottle with the screw cap taped back on, most of the other
>entrants were poured down the drain--but clearly this category was a joke

Ha, ha!  I liked that one!  Bust a 40 and hang.

I had a friend in Florida years ago when I was in the Air Force that made
sugar beer that wasn't to bad. (If you were broke and half wasted to start
with.) He called it gator piss and, maybe not quite so remarkably, it tasted
much as you would imagine gator piss to taste like.  He may have had a
catagory winner and we didn't even know it!

>So, I ask again, are there brewers out there who actively attempt
>to make light American pilseners?  Can it be done without flash
>fermentation, super-chilling, massive filtering?  

American Ale yeast fermented at low temps (60F) then lagered for a couple of
weeks (40 to 50F) also works fairly well for me. I prefer a little
fruityness in my ales though.  Our favorite brews are English Bitters.

One of the main reasons I started all grain brewing was because I like to
experiment.  It works for me.  I have kind of been rolling around the idea
of a corn flake, oat meal stout using belgian yeast hat 70F.  Should be
fruity enough! :-)

==========================
Tim Holland
Tim at mbmgsun.mtech.edu
Butte, Montana
==========================



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Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 11:02:42 -0500
From: "David R. Burley" <Dave_Burley at compuserve.com>
Subject: Home Malting, oxygenation,American Pilsners

Brewsters:

George De Piro feels the rush of Spring in his blood and says:

>Well, the time has come again for me to do something
I thought I'd never>do:  home malting!

I've been looking at seed catalogs for months, but living in the
woods as I do provides little opportunity except for things like
malting and hanging baskets on the deck to quiet the stirrings.

I usually go to an animal feed store of which there are several
around who provide horse and other large animal food. The
advantage of food grade barley ( versus seed grade) is that it
does not have fungicides on it to protect the seed and seedling.
OTOH this means the barley, if stored improperly, I've read, 

can pick up mold and spoil. Not only can this taste bad, but
moldy grains can have psychological and physiological effects
and even cause death.  Ergot and other molds and mildews
are not nice stuff and some have even been suspected as
carcinogenic. So be sure to inspect the grain by smelling it.
While it is unlikely that a reputable feed store that has a large
turnover in grain  will have such a problem, just be aware.

It may also be possible to obtain some malting grade barley
here on the East coast from some of the specialty maltsters.
If I recall correctly, Julianne Targan of Hop and VIne in
Morristown, NJ. told me she has a relative (father-in-law?) who
has some connection with specialty maltings around here.
Although Julianne is not active there for the present because
of maternal duties, perhaps Barbara of Hop and Vine can help.
- -----------------------------------
J. N Aichema does his oxygenation homework and then
ponders the need for oxygenation in small breweries.  


I have to say that IMHO oxygenation is really only necessary for
most beers if the yeast is going to be recycled. Work in
M&BS shows a steady decline in attenuation by the yeast
over as few as 5 cycles if the wort is not oxygenated.  If you
oxygenate the starter each time and pitch a large quantity
of yeast after decanting the starter beer, oxygenation is not
likely to be needed. AJ DeLange, I believe, once commented
that oxygenation of the cold wort would produce oxygenated
species like aldehydes which he could smell. Presumably
these get chewed up or purged to a large extent during
fermentation or may be part of the background for ales.
Lager yeast can be aggressive towards certain aldehydes.
For many years I did not oxygenate and pitched small
quantities of yeast and made good beer.  I think I got away
with it because I use an open fermentation style and the
12 hours (in those days)  to start of fermentation provided the
opportunity for this 5 gallon batch to get oxygenated.
Using a closed fermenter such as a carboy may make
oxygenation more necessary.
- -----------------------------------------------------
Vachom asks if anyone out there is making light
American Pilsners.

The short answer - Yep lots of them.

I routinely make Pilsners with 30-40% adjuncts in them and
if I make a Classic American Pilsner,  I use six-row malt
and corn and sometimes use Clusters hops and sometimes
with  Saaz and/or Hallertauer for a more European style.

I usually use (hominy) grits which I buy at the grocery store,
although I'm told True Grits ( couldn't help it) used for
brewing is just chunky corn meal. I have used Corn Meal
in the past until I realized the advantage of grits' size and color.
Avoid the use of the instant and other modified cereals as
they sometimes have proteases and other things which
may have an effect on your beer.

I also make a very delicious Pilsner based on six-row
( or two-row) and rice. Recently I have been chipping the
rice in my Marga mill before I cook it and have improved my
extraction rate substantially. I have been using long grain rice,
but I imagine using other varieties could bring an interesting
set of flavors to this style of beer.

In every case, I pour the adjunct into boiling water,  cook
the adjunct until it thickens, add water to bring the temperature
to around 150F and add some crushed malt ( typically a pound).
This thins out the goods and allows me to thoroughly cook it.  


Once you have the goods cooked, then add water to adjust
the temperature so that when you add the balance of the grist
you will come to the first rest desired and proceed with the mash.

Alternatively, you can do these in parallel and do all the protein
holds etc on the main mash and just add the goods mash as
you heat up to the saccahrification rest.  I do not do this as I
think it may be risky as far as haziness is concerned, although
I do not have any proof of this.

Last night a buddy and I cracked a new keg of a corn-based
Pilsner I made with Danish II yeast late last year and we sat
there drinking and admiring a great brew - clear and perfect
golden yellow with a long standing head while watching the
Oscars. After a few he said "This beer just keeps getting better
and better". I agreed, so we had a few more!

Keep on brewin'


Dave Burley
Kinnelon, NJ 07405
103164.3202 at compuserve.com
Dave_Burley at compuserve.com  

Voice e-mail OK 


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Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 11:05:25 -0500 (EST)
From: Paul Ward <paulw at doc.state.vt.us>
Subject: Priming Issues / Humor

Mr. Burley's priming regimen seems to be a popular topic of
conversation, so I figured I might as well make an idiot out of
myself by offering observations and a method I have not seen anyone
else suggest.

Mr. Burley states that it only takes about 4 minutes to prime 50
bottles, as well as lessening oxidation potential.  I think there may
be some tradeoff's with his method.  Boiling the priming solution (with
the addition of malt extract) takes the same amount of time whether
you batch prime or individually prime.  Sanitizing a vessel in which
to initiate priming fermentation, cooling priming solution, pitching
yeast, installing airlock, placing in fermentation area, and
transferring to dispensing container would all add time [WARNING -
big assumption made that priming solution and yeast is placed into an 
airtight container such as a beer bottle with lock until bottling time and
then poured into a bowl so the teaspooncan be dipped in to extract
the dose per bottle]. If the bottles are primed one at a time as they
are filled, this seems like a major annoyance - if they are all set
on the counter and primed at once, then you have 50 beer bottles with
their mouths up (like hungry baby sparrows) waiting for the errant
bug to fall in from the air (damned gravity).

A question - if our bottle carbonation comes from the fermentation of
the priming solution sugar, then wouldn't the fermentation which
occured prior to bottling (as the solution & yeast were approaching
high krauesen) decrease the amount of sugar which eventually makes it
into the bottle thus resulting in a lower carbonation level than if
no yeast had been added?  Or is additional sugar added up front to
take this into consideration?

What I do is to boil my priming solution and add it to my sanitized
bottling bucket.  I then start a siphon from my primary and clamp the
column of water in the tube.  I then attach the tubing to the spigot
on the bottling bucket.  I tip the bucket so the priming solution
(still hot) covers the inside of the spigot and remove the clamp.  If
I remembered to have the spigot in the open position, the siphon from
primary will enter the bucket through the spigot and mix with the
priming solution from the bottom - lessening the oxidation impact. 
If the spigot was in the 'closed' position when I remove the hose
clamp, green beer squirts out the relief hole on the spigot housing,
soaking me at about crotch level (this has happened more than once). 
I find that the beer mixing with the priming solution from the bottom
adequately mixes everything up without having to stir.  When the
primary goes dry, I close the spigot, put the orange bottle filler
thingy on the bottom of the cane that was in the primary, lift my
bottling bucket onto the counter above the dishwasher, and I'm all
set to fill bottles (only had to handle hose and cane once).  Seems
to work O.K. for me.

One of our administrative assistant sent the following to me.  Since 
I'm a sensitive 90's type of neanderthal, I asked if it might not be
offensive to one gender or another.  She assured me you would
approve, so if you take offense,.....BLAME SARAH!

> << Latest test results>>
>  USA, Palo Alto, CA (AP) -- "Yesterday scientists revealed that beer
>  contains small traces of female hormones.  To prove their theory,
>  the scientists fed 100 men 12 pints of beer and observed that 100% of
>  them gained weight, talked excessively without making sense, became
>  emotional, and couldn't drive.  No further testing is planned."

Paul in Vermont

paulw at doc.state.vt.us
- -- 
According to government height/weight charts,
I'm seven and a half feet tall.


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Date: Tue, 24 Mar 98 08:39:29 -0800
From: brian_dixon at om.cv.hp.com
Subject: Re: RE Malt Extract Database (errata)

     
     Dang!  I made a mistake when I posted about the malt extract database 
     at the First State Brewer's web site:
     
     http://triton.cms.udel.edu/~oliver/firststate/tips/maltextract.html
     
     I had said "if you could add attenuation info, that'd be great" or 
     some such thing.  Well, for as many as they had information on, it IS 
     there!  I just didn't notice it last time I looked, and apologize for 
     the misinformation.  There's a column called "FG" (final gravity) with 
     one of the following for each entry: '?' (don't know), high, med, or 
     low, which refer to low, medium, and high attenuation respectively.
     
     So, it's a great table.  It's open for your input.  And it's a good 
     place to bookmark in your browser.
     
     Thanks,
     Brian



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Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 11:03:21 -0600
From: "Shawn Andrews" <sabrewer at fgi.net>
Subject: Re: Munton's Maris Otter Malt

  I've used this on with questionable results. Upon closer inspection I
noticed that the
acrospires were extremely long, to the point of being "sprouts". It looks
like I got the
the same batch as G. De Piro! What effect would overmodified malt have?
I've
noticed lower efficiency and poor head retention, but wasn't sure whether
this was
due to poor mash schedules.
   I loved "Crisp Maltings" Maris Otter, but I can't get this anymore, just
Munton's.
Anyone know where I can find some? Has anyone used "Paul's Malts" with
success? I can get this a lot cheaper than Munton's.
   Any feedback is appreciated. Private e-mail ok.  TIA, Shawn Andrews



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Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 09:49:28 -0800
From: John Palmer <jjpalmer at gte.net>
Subject: Soilmaster Cleaner

Roger asked whether Soilmaster cleaner from Ecolab would pit or corrode
stainless steel.
Based on the ingredients he listed, it will not harm stainless steel,
even with long soaks.
>It contains Sodium Carbonate, Sodium Sulfate,
>Sodium Tripolyphosphate, Sodium Polyacrylate, Nonylphenol Ethoxylate.

Let us know how it works,
John
jjpalmer at realbeer.com




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Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 12:06:27 -0800
From: "Michael Kowalczyk" <mikekowal at megsinet.net>
Subject: What factors effect carbonation?

I've had trouble with predicting carbonation lately.  Here's my latest batch.

Base grains were Belgian Pilsner.  Mashed 134 - 30 min, 156 - 90 min for a
1.075 wort.  Pitched 1056 yeast from the primary of the last beer (1.060 og).
The yeast was harvested into a bell jar and put in the fridge for 24 hours
before pitching.  Fermentation took off in 6 hours.  Fermented for 15 days. 
Left it in the primary for 21 days, secondary for 10 days.   Bottled (1.018
FG) 5.75 gallons with 1.5 cups of DME.  Stored at 64 deg.

I've had about 5 beers from this batch at 7 Days, 11 Days, and 18 days after
bottling.  The carbonation is very low and getting more carbonated very
slowly.   I'd still call it pretty flat after 18 days.  I turned over the
bottles to re-suspend the yeast on the bottom once, and I'll do it again
after posting. 

What factors influence carbonation?
 - Length of time in the carboy - Doubt it, I do this all the time.
 - Yeast is beat up from the high og beers (1.060,1.075).
 - DME vs. Corn Sugar
 - pH, this is a pretty dark beer.
 - DME calc off?  I use 1.5 normally for 5 gallons, I had more this time and
didn't compensate.
 - Low storage temp and DME calc off?

I have a batch that I'm going to bottle today or tomorrow that is pretty
similar using the same yeast (second re-pitching), little lower OG, same
number of days to ferment, but I'll end up bottling about 5 days earlier than
the previous batch.  I'm wondering if I should use 2 cups of DME, or switch
to corn sugar, or something else.   Out of 32 batches using DME, I've only
had one fail to carbonate.

Any help welcome.


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Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 10:36:08 -0800
From: Anton Schoenbacher <antons at aa.net>
Subject: Yeast FAQ

Does anybody know of a yeast FAQ that lists all the various
yeasts and gives some info on them.  I ran across something
like this in the past but it has fermented into thin air.

thanks 

Anton--


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Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 11:04:06 -0500
From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu>
Subject: Re: Rolling Rock (second try)

In Homebrew Digest #2669 (March 24, 1998), Vachom
<MVachow at newman.k12.la.us> writes:

>Most homebrewers aren't interested in reproducing the
>taste of Rolling Rock <snip> My one and only whole grain rice experience
>yielded a
>starchy, gluttonous mess and a stuck sparge. <snip>
>So, I ask again, are there brewers out there who actively attempt
>to make light American pilseners?  Can it be done without flash
>fermentation, super-chilling, massive filtering?

Well, I actively make the predecessor of this kind of beer (Classic
American Pilsner, or CAP), and I feel confident that I could come close to
it by using more adjuncts, specifically rice and/or corn starch rather than
corn grit/meal/flakes and less hops.  Your "gluttonous mess"  resulted from
the incorrect use of rice.  It and corn need to be first mashed with some
of the malt (about 3:1 adjunct:malt), then boiled for some time (30-75
minutes), then added to the main mash.  I dare say that if you used 20%
each rice and corn starch with 6-row to 1.044,  and hopped to <15 IBU, you
could produce a tasty but very light RR clone.  Let the hot wort sit
covered 30 minutes before cooling to get some DMS.  You'd want to use a
fairly neutral lager yeast, maybe St. Louis.  Good lagering should
eliminate the need for filtering, and polyclar should further help with
haze and oxidation/darkening problems that might crop up.

I agree that I don't see the need to make this kind of beer since RR,
Coors, A-B et al do it so well, but it would be a nice challenge, and you
could probably make something that was just a little tastier that the mass
produced stuff without offending the regular drinkers of it.  But it makes
more sense to use the time and trouble it would take to make a really tasty
CAP!  Everybody like that.

Jeff

 -=-=-=-=-
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan c/o nerenner at umich.edu
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943. 




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Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 13:43:17 -0500
From: Jonathan Ingram <jgi105 at psu.edu>
Subject: Recipe Help

I took a recipe from Papazian's book, it calls for 2.5 lbs honey, 3.5 lbs
light malt, 4 oz ginger root. I was going to add 3/4 lb Crystal malt, and
I'm not sure which Wyeast to use, I'm thinking American Ale Yeast. Any
suggestions would be appreciated. -Jon
		jgi105 at psu.edu



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Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 14:47:16 -0500
From: "Frederick L. Pauly" <flp2m at avery.med.virginia.edu>
Subject: Breiss 2 row Questions

Is any one using Breiss 2 row brewers malt for Pale Ale?
If so how do you like it?

Rick


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Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 15:25:25 EST
From: KennyEddy <KennyEddy at aol.com>
Subject: Source for Just About Everything

Occasionally the need for a source for a specialty item comes up on the HBD.
I recently found myself in need of a short length of silicone tubing and
remembered someone had ordered a bunch and offerred to resell it in small
quantities to HBDer's but had since run out.   Spending $40 on 25' of tubing
from Cole-Parmer when I only needed 2 feet seemed overkill, so I blew it off.

As has been posted here many times in the past, McMaster-Carr Supply has a
BUNCH of stuff you might need, from tubing and fittings to plastic & metal
sheet and bar stock, screening and perforated metal sheets for false bottoms,
hardware, plumbing, electrical, pumps, tools, equipment, and more, and now you
can order on-line (http://www.mcmaster.com).  Best of all, I just placed an
order and found out that they don't have a minimum order price, you just pay
shipping.  Many items are stocked and ship same day as your order is placed.

So, I was able to get five feet of silicone tubing (plus a couple other items)
at 96 cents per foot (they also have the Class VI medical grade stuff if you
prefer at several dollars per foot).

In general their prices are pretty decent.  I *think* they automatically ship
second-day so you might ask if they can save you some change by shipping
ground if you're not in a big hurry.

In any case, just wanted to pass this on to all of you, especially in light of
the no-minimum-order thing.  In the past you had to be one of their mega-
customers to get their nearly 3000-page catalog, but they've PDF'ed the entire
thing and it is indexed and searchable on-line.  You can save and print
individual pages as you go.

For the record, I have no connection with McMaster-Carr.  If this sounds too
much like an advertisement it's just that I've seen a lot of posts by people
looking for this and that (never mind the stuff *I* was looking for too!), and
it's great to have a source of EVERYTHING without having to buy a boatload of
it or fake a business name.

*****
Ken Schwartz
El Paso, TX
KennyEddy at aol.com
http://members.aol.com/kennyeddy


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---