---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com


Contents:
  Construction Details for the NHE HLT (Kyle Druey)
  Oxygenation (Al Korzonas)
  distilled water yeats storage ("David Hill")
  Re: Offensive behavior ("Tom Ayres")
  Re: Offensive behavior ("Tom Ayres")
  IS 65 pubcrawl (kathy)
  Its PirAAT stupid, Not PIrate! (Charles Burns)
  Re:  Recipe Help ("Charles L. Ehlers")
  Re: Rust Stainless ("Patrick Acree")
  Hemp ale? (Jon Macleod)
  dryhopping/CO2 release ("Emily & Drew")
  Guinness Lactic (Brad McMahon)
  One-Step sanitizer ("J.W. Schnaidt")
  B-Brite Info Needed ("Randy A. Shreve")
  alcohol bite (Henry Paine)
  Low Flow Out of Boiler (Bryan Thompson)
  Sake ("David R. Burley")
  Re: Even Mash Temp (Mark Rogerson)
  More politics: Do you want to get arrested after 2 beers? ("Frank Conway")
  Prize Winner ("Michael R. Tucker")
  London bells are ringing (Dave Sapsis)
  Re: Silicone Tubing (Spencer W Thomas)
  RE: Even Mash Temp (John Wilkinson)
  Metal Scratching Glass - NO ("Barry Browne")
  hop tea haze (James R. Layton 972.952.3718 JLAY)
  re:Legislating morality (bb)
  apology for offensive behaviour (Ken Jucks, ph # 617-496-7580)
  Priming/Melanoidin Malt (bob_poirier)
  Grand Cru style? (Ted_Manahan)
  lager time vs temp ("David Hill")
  Munich Dunkel (Matthew Arnold)




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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 12:34:06 -0800
From: Kyle Druey <druey at ibm.net>
Subject: Construction Details for the NHE HLT

Fellow Brewsters:

Some folks are requesting more details on my No Hands Electric Hot
Liquor
Tank.  This gadget consists of a plastic bucket, ball valve, electric
heating element, thermometer, DC motor stirrer, and miscellaneous
electrical controls. The advantage of the NHE HLT is that you don't need
a stove or burner to heat the sparge water, and you don't have to stir
the sparge water to evenly distribute the temperature and mix in the
lactic acid for acidification.

Plastic Bucket - I am using a 6.5 gallon plastic bucket that is sold by
William's Brewing as a bottling bucket.  The plastic insulates the heat
pretty good and is clear enough so that you can see the water level. 
Being "see through" eliminates the need for a sight gauge.

Ball Valve - This is a Kitz 3/8" brass/bronze threaded ball valve.  You
use a 0.625" hole saw to drill the port in the bucket.  Attach a close
nipple onto the valve, insert through the hole, and secure on the inside
with a brass hex lock nut.  The outside of the valve that meets the
bucket is then sealed with silicone.  This silicone in a tube is a
gadgeteer's best friend, it is nontoxic and will prevent hot water and
hot wort from seeping past fittings.

Heating Element - I use a 3500 W copper plated with tin heating element
that is commonly found in home improvement stores.  The 3500 W element
was the largest size that will fit inside the 10" diameter bucket, and
provides a temp rise rate of a little over 1 deg F per minute.  This
temp rise rate is barely passable, and works out fine for this
application.  Use a 1.25" hole saw to drill a hole on the side of the
bucket.  Insert the element through the hole and tighten with a brass
hex lock nut.  Be sure to use the rubber gasket that comes with the
element.  Put a bead of silocone round the perimeter of the element (on
outside of bucket).  Drill a hole through the center of a 1" PVC end
cap, insert wires through the end cap hole and secure on to element
studs, and secure cap on top of element with silicone.

Thermometer - I use a digital readout thermometer that is commonly found
at homebrew shops.  It has an accuracy of +/- 2 deg F.  The thermometer
is secured to the bucket with a 1/4" X 3/8" compression fitting, Drill a
3/8" hole in the bucket, insert the 1/4" side through the hole, and
tighten with the 1/4" threaded nut that comes with the fitting.  Buy a
3/8" brass compression end cap, drill a 1/8" hole in the center, and
insert the thermometer stem through the hole.  Slide onto the stem a
1/8" ID rubber O ring, and them slide on top of that a size 00 beveled
rubber faucet washer. Then insert the stem through the fitting and hand
tighten the 3/8" end cap. Put a bead of silicone around the outside of
the fitting to seal it.

DC Motor - CD Pritchard gave me a tip on this one, it is a 12 V DC gear
motor than can be purchased at the Surplus Center for $5.95, part number
5-1162, telephone 800 488 3407.  The motor cranks at 70 rpm on 12V DC
200 mA.  The power supply is an AC to DC converter from Radio Shack that
is rated for 300 mA, and has a variable voltage from 1.5V to 12V, which
gives you a rpm range of 6 rpm to the max 70 rpm.  The hardest part for
me was coupling the stirring shaft to the motor shaft.  I kinda "oakie
rigged" this but I used a #14 copper grounding wire terminal/coupling,
these are commonly found at home improvement stores.  The coupling is
tightened onto the motor shaft, and a 1/2"length of copper pipe is
pinned to the ear of the terminal/coupling.  The rotation is a little
eccentric, but it works, and I am guessing the slow speeds will not
damage the motor.  Attach (solder or epoxy) a copper Tee onto the end of
the stirring shaft.  Onto each side of the Tee I attached stir blades
that are 3" lengths of 1/2" soft copper tubing that was pounded flat on
most of the length.  The other end was left round and was inserted into
a 1/2" X 3/8" flush brass bushing which was attached to the Tee.  The
stir blades were then cocked at 45 degree angles and faced down toward
the heating element.

Controls - The heating element is controlled with a $20 1000W dimmer
switch.  The motor is controlled with the adapter, but I tied in an
on/off switch for convenience.  I found that I don't need the motor
running all the time, just when I add in acid, and when I am at my set
temp.  All this is of course first tied into a GFCI.  I drilled a 1/2"
hole in top of the lid for acid additions, and close the hole with a #2
solid stopper.

Motor Mounting - On the bottom of the motor are three round recesses
that are used to secure rivets for the top of the motor case.  You can
screw #6 stainless metal screws into the recesses to secure the motor to
the lid.  I need to improve on this because the plastic lid deforms a
little and does not provide a flat mouting for the motor, but it works
for now.
 
I pirated this design from the CD's web page:

http://chattanooga.net/~cdp/boiler.htm

and Kenny Eddy's web page:

http://members.aol.com/kennyeddy/

As I mentioned, this would be a good project to get your feet wet before
you build a RIMS.  I left several "minor details" out, but I know that
sometimes these can make all the difference.  Send private email if you
have any questions.

Kyle Druey
Bakersfield, CA


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Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 14:01:40 -0600 (CST)
From: Al Korzonas <korz at xnet.com>
Subject: Oxygenation

Dave writes:
>AJ DeLange, I believe, once commented
>that oxygenation of the cold wort would produce oxygenated
>species like aldehydes which he could smell. Presumably
>these get chewed up or purged to a large extent during
>fermentation or may be part of the background for ales.
>Lager yeast can be aggressive towards certain aldehydes.

I'm quite certain neither AJ nor anyone posted this.  Further oxygenation
*AFTER* fermentation has begun can oxidise some of the alcohols produced
to aldehydes.  You are probably thinking of oxygenation/aeration *DURING*
fermentation.  This indeed can raise aldehyde levels to noticeable levels.

>For many years I did not oxygenate and pitched small
>quantities of yeast and made good beer.  I think I got away
>with it because I use an open fermentation style and the
>12 hours (in those days)  to start of fermentation provided the
>opportunity for this 5 gallon batch to get oxygenated.

Can someone who has a Dissolved Oxygen meter please see how
much oxygen still water picks up over the course of 12 hours?
I'll bet you could simply boil some water, gently pour it into
a fermenter and start measuring when the temp drops to 90F or
so.  My gut feeling is that very little oxygen gets dissolved
this way in 12 hours.

Dave is right, however, that if you don't repitch and you pitch
big starters to begin with (dry yeast is *heavily* oxygenated
before drying), you can *get away with* very little oxygenation
of the wort.  I still do...

Al.

Al Korzonas, Palos Hills, IL
korz at xnet.com

My new website (still under construction, but up-and-running):
     http://www.brewinfo.com/brewinfo/


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Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 07:29:16 +1000
From: "David Hill" <davidh at melbpc.org.au>
Subject: distilled water yeats storage

What are the advantages of yeast storage under distilled water compared with
just holding a bottle of beer in the fridge?

Recovering yeast from a bottle conditioned beer and multiplying up to a
starter or  doing the same from a sample stored under distilled water entail
around the same amount of work, time and material.

Is there any real difference in the expected viable storage time, and
stability of the yeast?

Many thanks for the group's thoughts.

=========

Many thanks also to those who have recently responded to my questions re
chest freezers, and rice syrup.

I just hope that my occasional (very occasional) answers almost compensate
for the questions.

This newsgroup is a great source of information, and good will,
especial thanks to the janitors for doing so much to keep it that way.

David Hill.   davidh at melbpc.org.au      :-)>
David Hill.   davidh at melbpc.org.au      :-)>




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Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 16:56:18 -0500
From: "Tom Ayres" <tom at unitedwaycc.org>
Subject: Re: Offensive behavior

Bill--

On second thought, the reference to Mr. O'Connor's brewing partner must
have been a data base error.  Satan, it seems, was judging the lambics.

Cheers again,

Tom Ayres


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Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 16:54:37 -0500
From: "Tom Ayres" <tom at unitedwaycc.org>
Subject: Re: Offensive behavior

Hmmmm . . . and EYE think everyone needs to lighten up.  Shades of the
Great Massachusetts-Maine Homebrew Wars again.  Next thing you know Victor
Belligerent will be coming out of the woodwork as well.

Hey, everybody . . . GET A LIFE!

Cheers,

Tom Ayres


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Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 20:41:41 -0500
From: kathy <kbooth at scnc.waverly.k12.mi.us>
Subject: IS 65 pubcrawl

Help.....Apr 4-12 my schoolteacher wife insists we find warm sand for
her to wiggle her frosted Michigan toes in  to gain strength to survive
until summer vacation.  Our pub crawl will be Interstate 69/65 to
Alabama Shores State Park.  We've explored Nashville's brewpubs and will
stop at dave miller's pub.  Done the Oldenberg museum/pub/brewery at
Louisville, KY, but would welcome suggestions for "don't miss" spots
along the IS 65.  

Also, will "spicy-assed mudbugs" be being served along the Alabama Gulf
in April?  Will Kenneth Starr investigate if they are?

Gotta go bottle  my kolsch and abbey triple.

cheers, jim booth, lansing, mi

Privately of course at      kbooth at waverly.k12.mi.us    

and sorry but I don't need any designated driver/passengers for the week




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Date: Wed, 25 Mar 98 18:15 PST
From: cburns at egusd.k12.ca.us (Charles Burns)
Subject: Its PirAAT stupid, Not PIrate!

Jeez, I was just trying to broaden my Belgian horizons a bit. But let me
start at the beginning

It was to be our first "official" judging as now Recognized beer judges. We
passed the test, got our certificates in the mail and we were ready to judge
the preliminary round of the World Cup of HomeBrew. This year the World Cup
is more important due to the nature of it being one of the qualifiers for
the Masters Championship of Amateur Brewers (MCAB).

So early Saturday (7:00 am) I met Beth and Craig at the local park n ride
and we take off to Berzerkeley. Craig brought his Thompsons map book and
 so
we decided on a scenic route through the Sacramento River Delta to a BART
station in Pittsburg no less. We didnt have to be there until 9:30 so we
knew we had plenty of time.  We did go by the old "River Haus" a German
restaurant and bar (Spaten on Tap) on the river and also the old Ryde Hotel
which continues to keep the 1930s atmosphere and decor alive. Well
 have to
go back later in the day sometime when theyre open.

Eventually we got to Pittsburg and found the ugliest looking train station
in history. Looks more like a federal penitentiary than a public
transportation port. After a losing battle with the ticket machine
(obviously designed by an idiot - or a homebrewer gadget freak after a few
too many brews) we got downstairs to the platform. Only to wait 20 minutes
for a train. About this time Craig and I were checking our watches and
deciding there was no way wed make it by 9:30 to Berkeley. Sure enough,
 we
left Pittsburg at 9:10 for a 30 minute train ride. And Craig being the
navigator, we followed him from the train station about 5 blocks the wrong
direction after arriving in Berkeley. Eventually we got turned around and
made it to Barclays just in time for the last bagel and cup of coffee. Dave
Klein said 9:30, knowing wed all get there by 10.

Barleywines! Both Beth and I got assigned to English Barleywines (separate
flights) and Craig got the honor of judging Scottish Exports with Dave
Sapsis. First time official judging and we got the strongest beers of all!
What luck! It was great. Flight of 10 Barleywines. My partner Troy had been
juding for a couple of years and he helped me a lot with aromas. The sinus
surgery I had 5 years ago left me aroma challenged. It was challenging and
after the 7th one, it was palette cleansing time. Troy showed me how to use
the bread as a filter for the nose (breath deep through a piece of bread) to
cleanse the nostrils. I also need to remember to put my pencil down when
attempting to swirl the cup and smell. I kept getting a nostril full of
pencil erasure (what a stink). We ended up passing 5 beers to the finals and
Beths group sent 4. They were all pretty good examples of the style.

Then we had lunch (free!) and of course spent an hour talking about BEER.
Craig had called Dave Garrett who lives in Berzerkeley and was a founding
father of our homebrew club (HAZE) and made arrangements to meet him that
afternoon. Randy from Modesto (who took and passed the test same time Beth
and I did) offered us a ride in his pickup, so off we all 4 went to Pacific
Coast Brewery. So we order a round and some food waiting for Dave. Well,
Dave shows up with his new wife and her ex-husband (dont ask). Neither of
them speak much english but they all enjoy and drink beer. After a round of
the Pacific Imperial Stout we get to be great friends (we also got fairly
polluted). For my last beer I decided to order the Belgian Tripel they had
on tap as a guest beer. Piraat. Well, when the waitress asked for my order I
said "Ill take a pint of the Pirate". At least 3 people nearly yelled
 "Its
PirAAT`, NOT Pi`rate". Humbled again in front of the "experts". Oh well, all
I wanted to do was to expand my experience with Belgian beers. It was a
wonderful Tripel by the way and I got totally wasted finishing the pint
(after spilling it on Randy who wanted and got a taste).

This story is beginning to get too long so to keep it short, we all hopped
in Daves 300 year old station wagon (except Randy who had enough sense to
head for home) and headed over to Jack London Square. Theres a nice
 little
bar there called "First and Last Chance". Nothing in that bar is at right
angles or flat. The bar is tilted at least 20 degrees, along with the floor.
Its extremely old and apparently never been repaired since the 1906
earthquake. I had some kind of ale but dont remember much. From there we
stumbled over to the local Beverages and More and each picked out 3 or 4
excellent beers to sample.

Piled back into the station wagon and headed over to Daves apartment. A
classic. Kitchen on first floor (it IS the first floor), bathroom is the
second floor, bedroom and living room on third floor. Reminded me of when I
was first married (Dave and Tako were married only 3 months ago). Drank some
more beers and then I stopped - I knew I had to drive from Pittsburg to
Placerville yet. We watched and listened to some videos that Dave made 
(hes
a camera expert) of Tako and Mako (the ex) and their blues band jam
sessions. Dave had been experimenting with the shutter speed which made
things blur just enough to convince us we were all more drunk than we
thought (and that was pretty wasted anyway).

And Mako the ex-husband/guitar player demonstrated incredible cooking skill.
Rustled us all up an incredibly delicious Japanese dinner. Some kind of
noodles with seafood (but no fork) and a bean curd soup that was to DIE FOR.
That and a cup of fresh ground vienna roast coffee and I was on my way to
getting ready to drive. A 15 minute walk to the nearest BART station, about
45 minute train ride and 1.5 hour drive and we made it back home about 1:30
am on Sunday.

Yes, beer judging is tough, but somebodys got to do it. And next week is
the finals! YeeHaw!

Charley (ready for WC finals) in N. Cal


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Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 21:56:50 -0600
From: "Charles L. Ehlers" <clehlers at flinthills.com>
Subject: Re:  Recipe Help

<<Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 13:43:17 -0500
From: Jonathan Ingram <jgi105 at psu.edu>
Subject: Recipe Help
I took a recipe from Papazian's book, it calls for 2.5 lbs honey, 3.5 lbs
light malt, 4 oz ginger root. I was going to add 3/4 lb Crystal malt, and
I'm not sure which Wyeast to use, I'm thinking American Ale Yeast. Any
suggestions would be appreciated. -Jon>>

Jon,
  If you're going for an Ale, Wyeast 1056,  American, AKA "Chico", will work
well.  However, as it's floculation is low to medium, you may not get
beautiful clarity.  I've used 1056 several times and have never had cloudy
beer, but not always as clear as I'd like.  You could also try Wyeast 1272,
American Ale II, which is supposed to be fruitier and more floculant.  I'm
enjoying an ale I fermented w/ that.  Quite nice and beautifully clear.
  Not sure why you want to add the Crystal Malt--color or body?  Consider
Carapils instead.  This recipe can produce a beautifully clear, light
colored, nicely flavored beer.  Actually, try it first w/o any specialty
grains.
  You can also lager.  Strongly recommend WYeast North American (don't have
the number) for this recipe if you do.
  This is basically C. Papazian's "Rocky Racoon Crystal Honey Lager" w/
ginger added.  The basic Rocky Racoon recipe makes a good brew in itself.
Interesting story.  I brewed a batch about a year ago.  Found a bottle last
week that had sat in a corner and by this time was pretty well skunked.
Tasted just like a Heineken.  Couldn't believe it.
  Cheers!
Charles



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Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 20:07:48 -0800
From: "Patrick Acree" <pacree at proaxis.com>
Subject: Re: Rust Stainless

Whatever you do DON'T use a wire wheel on that rust, it will only imbed tiny
bits of  non-stainless steel in you stainless and cause more rust.  This is
from personal experience.  Use a green Scotch scouring pad.  To restore the
keg it will have to be "passivated".  This is a process using acid, not
being a CE, I don't remember which type.  It can be done a most large metal
finishing places.  I live about 80 miles from Portland, OR and that was the
closest place to get mine done, so I got another one and use the rusty keg
for a crab boiler.




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Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 22:25:55 -0500
From: marli at bbs2.rmrc.net (Jon Macleod)
Subject: Hemp ale?

Has anyone out there tried making a beer using hemp seeds (a la Hempen
Ale)?   I'm curious as to the amount of seeds to use, and how/when to
use them?

Mike



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Date: Wed, 25 Mar 98 23:36:30 PST
From: "Emily & Drew" <eneufeld at michianatoday.com>
Subject: dryhopping/CO2 release


I brewed an American pale ale on Friday, March 13 and racked to secondary
 on Sunday, March 22.  I am writing now because I dry hopped a few 
minutes ago and had a very strange thing happen.  As soon as the muslin bag 
filled with 1 oz. of hops and marbles sunk to the bottom, there was a 
spontaneous release of CO2 which formed a head of 1 1/2 inches on top of the 
beer.  When I put the airlock back on, it began to bubble at a very rapid
 pace.  Did this just happen because I over weighted my hop bag with 
marbles which caused it to sink rapidly to the bottom like a rock?  Note I 
noticed a lot of CO2 in solution when racking from primary to secondary 
(at least I hope it was CO2 and not air).  Also note that I had boiled 
the marbles and the hop bag as well as give the marbles a light iodophor 
rinse. I am concerned that I may have inadvertantly oxygenated the beer 
at this point, and that this release of CO2 may scrub out the aroma of 
my dry hops.  I would very much like any comments on this mystery.  This 
is the first time this has happened in the over ten batches I have dry 
hopped.  Thanks in advance.

Drew Buscareno


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Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 20:10:34 +1000
From: Brad McMahon <brad at sa.apana.org.au>
Subject: Guinness Lactic

* "Draft" Guiness and Guinness Extra Stout are NOT soured "according
to sources at Guinness USA and at the St. James Gate brewery."  

I nearly laughed at this. Then I ran to get my source book, and 
found that yes, this may be correct! 

"There are more than nineteen versions of Guinness stout brewed
world-wide today ... and the remarkable Foreign Extra Stout
is sold in fifty-five countries and brewed under licence in
forty-four. Ten million pints of Guinness in all its forms are
drunk everyday throughout the world. Foreign Extra Stout, FES
for short, ... is stored in the [two old oak] vats for one
to three months where it picks up lactic flavours from the action
of wild Brettanomyces yeasts. This is stale beer in the historic
meaning of the word. It is blended with young stout and then the
bottles are stored for another month before being released for
sale."
Protz,R.,The Ale Trail,Eric Dobby Publishing, Kent, 1995. pp174-6.

Protz then mentions that foreign brewed versions of FES get a 
"secret ingredient" in powder or syrup form to add to the wort,
this is probably the lactic wort extract.

He then mentions the other forms of Guinness, including Original,
Draught and Export Draught. He goes into detail of their composition
and taste, and does not mention any lactic or other sour notes.
Specifically with Draught he mentions the 45-53 IBU and dark, bitter
malts. Could this be the tang?

So there!

Speaking of this black gold, there has been something I have been 
meaning to ask about Draught Guinness in the US. I have had Draught
in two separate pubs (whoops, bars) in New York including
an "Irish" bar, and I was most disappointed. 
Compared to the stuff imported to Australia, and
the stuff I had had in the UK, the stuff I had was significantly
lighter in body, and sweeter from lower bitterness levels. This
was confirmed by a friend of mine who had just come over from Dublin.
Yet, the bar staff (who got upset when I asked them to pour 
it properly, i.e. with the settling period) assured me it was
imported. We nearly pushed it back across the bar on both
occasions, and in fact we couldn't finish them we were so upset
with not getting the real thing, plus they tasted terrible (they
were not off, however.)

Do Guinness brew specifically for the US market?

Can anybody who has drunk Guinness outside the US
debunk or validate my claim to the taste difference?

- --
Brad McMahon        Adelaide, South Australia         
brad at sa.apana.org.au   
PGP




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Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 06:57:43 -0600
From: "J.W. Schnaidt" <tuba at gwtc.net>
Subject: One-Step sanitizer

In HBD #2671, Brent Oberlin wrote:

>I began using One Step sanitizer about 2 years ago.  The first
>time that I used it was the first time I had a batch that went bad.
>I switched back to bleach and everything was ok.  Once again I fell
>for the One Step sanitizer and found that I had 3 batches in a row
>go bad.  I called a different homebrew store and found that they
>had discontinued selling it because of customer complaints from
>bad batches.

As another data point, I've used One-Step exclusively since I began brewing
2 years ago. To date I've made 14 batches, some extract and some all grain,
using it as my only sanitizer.

I've never had an infection.

Personally, I wouldn't use anything except One-Step. Go figure.

Jim Schnaidt
tuba at gwtc.net




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Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 08:02:10 -0500 (EST)
From: "Randy A. Shreve" <rashreve at interpath.com>
Subject: B-Brite Info Needed

B-brite has been my sanitizer of choice from the beginning and I am still
using it because....well....I've always used it!

Two points of confusion that I need to have clarified:

1.  What is the recommended minimum contact time?

2.  How long does the stuff maintain it's potency after it has been mixed?
(for that matter, how long does the average male HBD member maintain his
potency after being mixed with numerous homebrews??!??)

Zum Wohl!!

Randy in Salisbury, NC



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Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 07:14:20 -0600
From: Henry Paine <hpaine at iglobal.net>
Subject: alcohol bite

Howdy --

I just finished my first two of batches that seem to have an alcohol bite
as an aftertaste.  They are too high content, I know (both 7%).  My
question is:  Will they smooth out with time??

Thanks.

Hank Paine
Denton, Texas
hpaine at iglobal.net
Henry C. Paine, Jr.
hpaine at iglobal.net


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Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 08:21:28 -0500
From: Bryan Thompson <thompsonb at mailserver.volvo.com>
Subject: Low Flow Out of Boiler

I use a SS keg as my boiler. The outlet is a stainless sleeve welded in 
about 1 inch above seam of keg bottom with sides. For many years I 
somehow enjoyed good flow out of a 90 deg elbow and short length of 
copper screen rolled up and protruding from the elbow, hugging the 
inside of the keg. The system worked well with leaf hops and not so good 
with pellets. Recently, the screen was showing its age so I tossed it 
and replaced it with another. Ever since, I have had very poor flow 
rates out of the boiler into my heat exchanger. I need to filter out the 
hops before my heat exchanger since it would be ruinous to my heat 
exchanger. I have ruled out flow problems through the exchanger. I've 
experimented with several other screens and geometries, but none work as 
well as the original which is now in a landfill - been kicking myself 
ever since.

I was wondering how have others rigged up this part of their brew 
kettle?

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Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 08:40:48 -0500
From: "David R. Burley" <Dave_Burley at compuserve.com>
Subject: Sake

Brewsters:

Michael Whitt asks about sources for Sake:

I made Sake. It came out good, but it was lots of work and most of my
friends don't like sake and I drink it rarely, so plan on having a supply

of aged sake if you are like me. My son recently partied with some of it 
in
California and it got rave reviews.  I  was able to get the actual rice
which had been infected with the mold which is the koji ferment used by a

sake maker here in the US and also purchase real Sake polished rice in a
rare set of circumstances.  I have also used Japanese short grain rice 
for
a Sake of a higher color and more similar to the Chinese rice wine.

Alternatively, you can use related ferments used to produce various
fermented foods in the Far East which will also do a good job so I am 
told.
Check out your local Asian grocery store.

Buy Fred Eckhardt's book "Sake" from Brewer's Publications (I think), but

remember Fred is of artistic inclinations, not scientific and you will
likely have to read and reread this book to really figure out what you 
are
supposed to do. He lists contacts within the US for related stuff and you

may contact him directly for more on his sporatic Sake newsletter.

Wyeast sells the Sake Yeast 


Keep on brewin'


Dave Burley
Kinnelon, NJ 07405
103164.3202 at compuserve.com
Dave_Burley at compuserve.com  

Voice e-mail OK 


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Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 07:43:53 -0600
From: Mark Rogerson <arkmay at flash.net>
Subject: Re: Even Mash Temp

Dana H. Edgell <edgell at quantum-net.com> wrote:

> 1) Old ice cream motor/MixMasher thing. ....
>
> 2) copper pipes. Has anyone ever tried simply inserting some thin
> copper
> pipes into the middle of the mash? ....

Hey!  That's very similar to something I dreamed up not long ago during
the great MIXMASHER(TM) discussion of early 1998.  Everyone point your
browsers to http://www.flash.net/~arkmay/Mark/RandyStoat/tentative.gif
and tell me what you think.  I use the hot liquor to heat the mash, but
the first thing you'll notice is that my design includes a pump.  I
don't know how you were planning to heat the tubing.  There's no
automation -- the idea is that you watch the thermometers and twist ball

valves as needed (gotta get your hands dirty somehow).

Like you, I wonder if the copper tubing can actually transfer heat to
the mash well enough.  It might be too slow for proper step mashing.  If

someone knows this won't work, I'd appreciate it if they told me before
I build it.  (But I doubt I'll build it)

And now, back to the lurking ...

Mark Rogerson, HMFIC
Randy Stoat Femtobrewery
Houston, Texas
(arkmay at flash.net)



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Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 08:04:02 -0600
From: "Frank Conway" <fconway at wpg.sunquest.com>
Subject: More politics: Do you want to get arrested after 2 beers?

George De Piro wrote:

     If you ignore this now, you'll pay for it later.  MADD and the other
     neo-prohibitionists won't stop at 0.08.  Zero tolerance is their goal!

George,

If you are responsible, this law will not be a concern.  When you drink,
don't drive.  Here in Manitoba, the law is that you are intoxicated at a BAC
of 0.05 (it used to be 0.08).  If you get caught, you'll normally be asked
to park your car and go home if you're close to the limit.  If you're
obviously intoxicated, though, you'll lose your car and license for (I
think) up to six months.

Also, what is the real difference between your current .1 level and .08?
Not much, so why be concerned.

You're right that this won't keep irresponsible idiots from getting into
their cars and causing death on the roads, but if they are stopped it gives
the police the powers they need to get that moron off the road.

And the law causes me and not a few of my friends to get a designated driver
if we know we're going to exceed the limit, or stop drinking very early if
we're driving.  Safer.  Really.  And I think that's the point.

I could have gone on about how the people of the USA are paranoid about
government interference in their lives, but this is a brewing forum, not a
political one.  So I won't.

- ------
Frank Conway                            fconway at sunquest.com
Senior Software Developer              Voice: (204) 956-9771
Sunquest Information Systems           FAX:   (204) 957-5450
401-175 Hargrave St., Winnipeg, Manitoba Canada      R3C 3R8





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Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 09:54:53 -0500
From: "Michael R. Tucker" <mtucker at frii.com>
Subject: Prize Winner

Hi All!

Proud papa here of a bouncing baby 5 gal. batch that won a gold medal at
the local Jaycees homebrew contest!  Yes, the Fayetteville, NC Jaycees had
their first annual home brew-off.  We had about 200 people show for the
festivities, and over 150 entries in 4 categories (light, medium, dark, and
specialty) and three judges per category, culled from regional
microbreweries and brewpubs.  

First ever brew contest for this area, and they did a great job.  Food was
provided by a couple of local sub shops, and to be honest, it was a great
way to spend a Saturday afternoon.

Anyway......  I entered my brew into (and won first place!!) the medium
category.  I must admit that I owe many thanks to ROGER GROW from Colorado
for providing the base recipe that I used, and I owe many thanks to NEW
BELGIUM BREWING CO. (http://www.newbelgium.com) in Colorado for providing
the inspirational beer, Fat Tire Amber Ale, upon which this recipe is
based.  I also owe a debt of thanks to the list.  I haven't contributed
much, but reading the digest daily has helped me to be a better brewer, so,
a collective thanks to everybody.

Anyway, I was so dang proud, I had to tell somebody...... and it was you
guys.  :-)


- ---
Michael R. Tucker
http://www.frii.com/~mtucker
mtucker at frii.com


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Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 09:16:55 -0800
From: Dave Sapsis <DAVE_SAPSIS at fire.ca.gov>
Subject: London bells are ringing

Well, I never though it would come to pass, but maybe dream s do come
true.  I will have the pleasure of spending a week in London and
environs at the end of next month, and would appreciate (thats
pronounced ah-preece-ee-ate) any not to miss pubs or any books same.  I
currently know to try the White Horse, and thats bloody it.  Any of you
good Londoners want to meet up for a pint, that would be nice too.
Private email please.

cheers,
- --dave sapsis   Sacramento, CA, USA            dave_sapsis at fire.ca.gov
(bf 0% -- bummer, eh)      "Lets go to the pub and have a pint to
discuss the caaaaase, Lewis"
	
- --Morse


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Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 10:13:42 -0500
From: Spencer W Thomas <spencer at engin.umich.edu>
Subject: Re: Silicone Tubing 

>>>>> "Kyle" == Kyle Druey <druey at ibm.net> writes:

    Kyle> A few weeks ago Spencer posted some info on Silicone Tubing.
    Kyle> I found many suppliers, but only McMaster-Carr sells it by
    Kyle> the foot:

    Kyle> http://www.mcmaster.com/webcat/catalog.html


Kyle, you da man!  Thanks for finding this.

I'd like to reiterate that, according to Norton, this stuff has a
fairly low hot bursting strength (1.8PSI at 100C), so it is NOT
suitable for pumped applications, such as RIMS.  

=Spencer


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Date: Thu, 26 Mar 98 12:13:15 CST
From: jwilkins at wss.dsccc.com (John Wilkinson)
Subject: RE: Even Mash Temp

Dana Edgell asked about evening mash temp. with a stirrer driven by an old
ice cream freezer motor.

I looked into that but the ice cream freezer motor I have turns much faster
than I wanted for a stirrer.  I made a stirrer using a rotisserie motor
until it crapped out then used a gear motor I bought from someone in HBD.
I started having stuck sparges which went away when I quit using the auto
stirrer.  I don't know for sure if that was all the reason for my stuck sparges
but have found that I don't need that much stirring anyway.  I mash in a
cylindrical cooler and stir very well at mash in and maybe a couple of times
after that and my results are as good as when I auto stirred but without the
runoff problems.  I think Jack Schmidling opined that mashing in a cooler
should not need much stirring.  I think he was right.  If you are mashing in
a pot which is directly heated, then that is another story.  Auto stirring
would not seem to be indicated in that case, though, as the stirring would
be when heat was added in which case it should be as easy to do it manually.

John Wilkinson - Grapevine, Texas - jwilkins at wss.dsccc.com


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Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 13:18 -0800
From: "Barry Browne" <BBrowne at golder.com>
Subject: Metal Scratching Glass - NO

  Dan writes in HBD 2671 that he believes the metal on his carboy brush has 
  scratched the inside of his glass carboy rendering it useless.  Dan, rest 
  easy, it is the other way around.
  
  Silica glass typically has a hardness of 7 on Moh's hardness scale as it's 
  basically quartz (good ol'Geology at work for me there!!) and I'll bet the 
  type of soft metal on your brush weighs in at 5 to 5.5, where 10 is 
  diamond (hardest).  What actually happened is that the glass scratched 
  (streaked) the metal and you are seeing metal streaks on the glass.  In 
  other words you have deposited metal on the glass.  I expect you'll see 
  these streaks oxidize (turn orange/brown rust coloured) and disappear.  
  Placing a weak bleach solution in the carboy should expedite the process.
  
  So, Brew On and be excellent to each other!! (my HBD motto as modified 
  from Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure)
  
  Barry
  Atlanta, GA


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Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 13:40:24 -0600
From: layton at sc45.dseg.ti.com (James R. Layton 972.952.3718 JLAY)
Subject: hop tea haze

Dan Morley reports that adding a hop tea at bottling time made his
beer hazy.

I tried a similar procedure a while back, except that I added the hop
tea to the secondary fermenter. It did make the beer hazy, but this
haze settled during the lagering stage. It took several weeks at cold
temperature. 

Jim Layton (Howe, TX)


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Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 14:48:00 -0500
From: bb <bbtrkpts at dns3.abcs.com>
Subject: re:Legislating morality

Ditto's Pat



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Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 14:45:31 -0500
From: jucks at cfaft4.harvard.edu (Ken Jucks, ph # 617-496-7580)
Subject: apology for offensive behaviour

Mr. Bill Giffen felt the need to take the Boston Wort Processors and the
Boston Homebrew Competition to task on both HBD and judgenet for offending 
Dr. Tom O'Connor by including an inappropriate co-brewer to his entries 
in our list of winners for this year's contest.  He is very correct that 
this was an offensive act. 

On behalf of The Boston Wort Processors, the organizers of the Boston 
Homebrew Competition, and myself, we are truly sorry to Dr. Tom O'Connor
that he was wronged in this way.  I cannot offer any suitable justification
for the act and am TRULY embarrassed that this happened.

One member of the club included the co-brewer upon data entry in what 
he thought was a practical joke.  I did not know this and honestly thought 
that Dr. O'Connor included this himself as a joke and I mistakenly played 
along.  Not knowing Dr. O'Connor myself, I did not realize that such a joke is
not his style.  I was informed of my misunderstanding by Dr. O'Connor a few 
weeks back and was stunned.  I apologized to him at that time for my error.
I am embarrassed that I did not catch the fact that this was a practical joke
on the day of the competition.  The offender has personally apologized 
to Dr. O'Connor.  

I am also sorry that this forum was bothered with this incident.  Y'all have
many more interesting topics to discuss than this.  In my personal opinion
(and not necessarily that of the club) this sensitive matter is best handled
behind the scenes such that only the NECESSARY apology is posted here.  This 
saves alot of bandwidth, misunderstanding, and hurt feelings.  It is my 
hope that such an incident never happen again.

On a more personal note: this whole incident leaves a very sour taste in my
mouth.  I am fairly new to the judging scene.  I volunteered to organize this 
competition because I had found them to be fun, worthwhile, and educational.  
I worked VERY hard make the competition a success, one that our club is proud 
to sponsor.  After having to endure this public embarassment, I will think 
long and hard about every helping to organize another contest, especially 
here in New England.  With the exception of this weekend where I will judge 
at competition sponsored by a club that supported the BHC with lots of entries 
and quality judges (South Shore Brew Club), I will back off judging in our area 
for a while as peoples' egos are way to big for me to enjoy these competitions
at the moment.  

Sorry again for the added bandwidth.  

Ken Jucks
Disgraced Coordinator for the Boston Homebrew Competition



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Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 13:10:49 -0600
From: bob_poirier at adc.com
Subject: Priming/Melanoidin Malt

        Let's put this priming thing to bed!  
     
        Bottom line:  You find something that works wonders, you use that 
     technique for ever and ever!  Good for you!!
        Debates as to which priming method is superior are moot - Is the 
     beer carbonated as a result of your priming technique?  Yes?  BINGO!! 
     A job well done.  End of story!
     
        I submitted a comment regarding this debate, which I later 
     regretted, because all it helped to do was to give a little more life 
     to a topic that should have died shortly after it hatched.
        Let's put the damn thing out of our misery!
     
        A quickie regarding melanoidin malt:  My homebrew supplier recently 
     got a bag 'o this malt.  I tasted it.  I hated it!  Bittersweet at 
     first (more bitter than sweet), then, after a few seconds, it 
     developed an EXTREMELY sharp taste.
        Yech!
        What exactly does this malt add to a brew, and will that 
     bitter/sharp taste come through in the final product?
        Al K. says he uses this malt in his Munchner Dunkel.  I haven't had 
     the opportunity to sample this type of brew yet.  Anyone know of an 
     example I can try?  Or, maybe a recipe??
     
        Thanks, people!!
        Brew to live.  Live to brew.
     
        Bob P.
        bob_poirier at adc.com




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Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 13:15:58 -0800
From: Ted_Manahan <tedm at hpcvn2ax.cv.hp.com>
Subject: Grand Cru style?

Here's a question I'm working with. I brewed a credible knock-off of
Rodenbach Grand Cru. For those of you who haven't tried this classic,
it's surprisingly sour and aromatic. It can be startling if the drinker
isn't ready for it.

So the question is - what category should I use in the AHA competition?
I am leaning towards specialty. I want to be sure the judges know what
to expect, and if I enter under Belgian Strong Dark they may not be
informed of the specific sub style.

Go our and buy a bottle, and let me know what you think. Thanks for your
thoughts!

Ted Manahan
tedm at cv.hp.com
541/715-2856

PS - I can't resist bragging. Rodenbach Grand Cru costs about $5.00 a
bottle. My home brewed version is pretty close in taste, and I have
almost ten gallons of the stuff. Beer geek heaven, I tell you!


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Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 07:55:48 +1000
From: "David Hill" <davidh at melbpc.org.au>
Subject: lager time vs temp


Due to lack of multiple refrigerators I ferment my pilseners and then laager
them in the one large fridge at 10C / 50F.

this is obviously a higher temp that recommended for laagering.  Is there a
suggested time/temp relationship for lager. ie does holding at 2 months at
10C equate to one month at 2C?.

In the days before brew day when there is no fermenting beer in the fridge I
drop the temp until ice starts to form in the lager vessels  then bring the
temp back up to 10-11C to ferment the new beer.

I try to drink no beer younger than 2 months.

Any criticisms of this system and advice re the time/temp question?
TIA
DavidDavid Hill.   davidh at melbpc.org.au      :-)>



David Hill.   davidh at melbpc.org.au      :-)>



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Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 01:49:54 GMT
From: marnold at netnet.net (Matthew Arnold)
Subject: Munich Dunkel

I'm amazed and perplexed at the lack of Dunkel recipes floating around the
'Net. Doesn't anyone brew this fine style? If you have a good all-grain Dunkel
recipe, I'd be very glad to see it. I was hoping that _Designing Great Beers_
would have a section on Dunkels. Alas, it does not. Basically, here's my
current idea:

Poke-Check Dark
8# Light Munich malt
1# Melanoidin malt
1# 150L Crystal
 .5 oz Hallertau Northern Brewer (8.5% AA)
2.5 oz Hallertau Hersbrucker (1.3% AA)
Liquid lager or neutral ale yeast (depending on the time of year and my ability
to lager)

Single step infusion mash at ~155F (if I get brave some day, I'll try a
decoction). N. Brewer and 1 oz Hersbrucker for 60 minutes, 1 oz Hersbrucker for
30 minutes, .25 Hersbrucker for 10 minutes and same at knockout.

According to the recipe program I use, the O.G. should be around 1.052
(figuring a little better than 70% efficiency) and 23 IBUs (Tinseth's method).

Any thoughts?
  Matt
- -----
Webmaster, Green Bay Rackers Homebrewers' Club
http://www.rackers.org        info at rackers.org


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---