HOMEBREW Digest #2674 Mon 30 March 1998

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		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com

  Ferderal Laws, B-Brite, Carboy Scratches and Using Lactic Acid (James Tomlinson)
  RE: More politics: Do you want to get arrested after 2 beers? (John Wilkinson)
  Sierra Nevada Grain (Fred Waltman)
  Club Yeast Library (Dennis Cabell)
  Homebrewers Weekend Course ("Jim & Shelly Wagner")
  is oxygenation necessary? (antnee56)
  one-step ("Ray Estrella")
  fluorescent lights (robert57)
  mercy killing? ("Ray Estrella")
  Open Fermenting / Mashing wheat malt (YYZCLAYTON)
  Displaying my ignorance (part II) ("Hans E. Hansen")
  Mash Mixer Mixed Results? (Ludwig)
  Re: Hazed and Confused (Kyle Druey)
  The Jethro Gump Report ("Rob Moline")
  Berliner Weiss, Baker's Yeast (Charles Hudak)
  calories & carbohydrates in beer (ensmingr)
  Lookit the colors, man! Whoa! (Some Guy)
  Contests, Hombrew Stores, Piezo Ignition and Reverse RIMS. ("S. Wesley")
  What I Wrote/DO (AJ)
  microscopy (Louis Bonham)
  Re: Satan bashing (Satan 666)
  RE:  Scratched Glass/Cleaning Primaries (bob_poirier)
  Baker's yeast ("David R. Burley")
  re:RIMS cleaning (The Holders)
  Re: Unknown Yeast Strain (Ringwood?) (Jim Wallace)
  Re: Beer Carbohydrates (Jim Bentson)
  Re:Grand Cru Style? (Golgothus)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 15:57:15 -0500 From: James Tomlinson <red_beards at compuserve.com> Subject: Ferderal Laws, B-Brite, Carboy Scratches and Using Lactic Acid In HBD2671, George De Piro wrote about the new 0.08 BAC Federal Law. I Agree that increased enforcement would be better than moveing the arbitrary standard. That said, I want to add a correction. In a Post to the Bacchus Wine forum on Compuserve, a post was made relating to this topic. Along with lots of statistics, a note appeared quoting the founder of MADD as being opposed to this bill for precisely the reasons stated by George. It will criminalize a margin and add nothing to going after the real offenders. IN HBD2672, Randy A. Shreve Wrote about how long B-brite stays effective as a sanitizer. B-brite is not a sanitizer. It is a cleanser. I misunderstood this, years ago, when I first started brewing, and it appears that there is still misinformation going around about B-brite being a sanitizer. Also in HBD2672, Barry Browne wrote about the Carboy scratches. I'm not sure what kind of carboy you are using, but mine are not quartz crystal, they are glass. The Mohs scale of hardness I use has Glass and steel both at 5.5, being that they will scratch each other. Quartz crystal is 7. Sorry to the orginal poster that you may indeed have scratched your carboy. I have no fix. Now on to my own business: I recently started acidifying my mash and sparge water to make up for the fact that my extremely hard water also is alkaline. I am kegging the first on tonight so I'll see the full results almost immediately. I noticed that I'm not getting much in the hot and cold break department. I get some coagulating foam, but I scoop that stuff away. Before I acidified, I was getting something like egg drop soup. Quick review: Multi infusion, Briess 2 row, Protein rest at 135 for 20, Conversion at 153, mash out to 160-165 with a liquid decoction. Using Lactic Acid to adjust the mash to 5.3-5.5 pH and the Sparge water is 170 F, also 5.3-5.5 pH. Is the acid preventing me from extracting tannins and this the reason I'm not getting much in the way of break material ? - -- James Tomlinson Give a man a beer, and he wastes an hour. But teach a man how to brew, and he wastes a lifetime! Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 98 17:10:08 CST From: jwilkins at wss.dsccc.com (John Wilkinson) Subject: RE: More politics: Do you want to get arrested after 2 beers? I have to weigh in on George De Piro's side rather than Frank Conway's when it comes to the legal intoxication level of .08 or .10. Frank said of the .08 limit: >If you are responsible, this law will not be a concern. If one is not intoxicated at the .08 level I do not consider it irresponsible to drive. Frank even admits: >You're right that this won't keep irresponsible idiots from getting into >their cars and causing death on the roads, but if they are stopped it gives >the police the powers they need to get that moron off the road. If the .08 limit won't stop the problem drivers, why saddle the rest of us with an unreasonably stringent limit? What power does it give the police to control those problem drivers that they don't already have? The .10 limit would stop those drivers as well as .08 since they are well past .10. I could have gone on about how the people Canada are sheep willing to accept an oppressive government, but this is a brewing forum, not a political one. So I won't. John Wilkinson - Grapevine, Texas - jwilkins at wss.dsccc.com Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 15:24:48 -0800 (PST) From: Fred Waltman <waltman at netcom.com> Subject: Sierra Nevada Grain Shawn asks about the malt Sierra Nevada uses. Back in the good old days when Great Western Malting would let you come in to the plant and buy malt on Wed mornings you could sometimes get a peek at the board showing scheduled shipments. Anchor, Sierra Nevada and California Concentrates (the folks who make Alexander's) had regular listings. So at one time they used good old American 2-row. Fred Waltman Culver City Home Brewing Supply Co. fred at brewsupply.com *or* waltman at netcom.com http://www.brewsupply.com "You can make better beer than you can buy." Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 19:20:23 -0500 From: Dennis Cabell <cabell at home.msen.com> Subject: Club Yeast Library HI, I have been keeping slants for about 1.5 years, and have been considering opening my yeast library up to my brew club so that everyone could benefit and contribute. My question goes out to members of other clubs that have yeast libraries. How to you administer the library? I don't have the time to make a starter everytime someone calls and wants a yeast, so I wanted to know how others did things. All suggestions are welcome. Thanks, Dennis - -- Dennis Cabell Sterling Heights, MI cabell at home.msen.com Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 19:35:02 -0000 From: "Jim & Shelly Wagner" <wagner at toad.net> Subject: Homebrewers Weekend Course Is anyone out there planning on attending the Homebrewers Weekend Course in Baltimore? It's put on by the American Brewers Guild and is set for May2-3, 1998. I'm going and was just curious to see if anyone from HBD is going. Contact me directly or go to http://www.masterbrewer.com for more info. Jim Wagner Pasadena, Maryland Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 20:06:37 -0500 From: antnee56 at juno.com Subject: is oxygenation necessary? Hi all, I'v been brewing now about two years and still consider myself a novice at this great and rewarding pastime. but i am still confused on the need to add extra oxygen to the wort before pitching the yeast. I'v made about ten 5 gallon batches and the process of transferng the wort from brewpot to primary fermenter useing a funnel seems to cause enough aireation, and the beer seems to ferment vigorously, and so far has been very drinkable. I'm just wondering if taking the additional step and adding the oxygen is worth the time and effort, and does it improve the finished product! Also i have to say that i read every issue of the HBD and have benefited greatly from the many valuable posts. Happy Brewing Tony in Trenton NJ _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 20:04:54 -0600 From: "Ray Estrella" <ray-estrella at email.msn.com> Subject: one-step Hello to all, Kyle asks, >Does anyone use One Step cleaner/sanitizer or Oxine and can >post back results of effectiveness? I go through 5 - 6 LB of One-Step a year, along with TSP, and Iodine based cleaner/sanitizer. The One-Step works very well, I use it for smaller cleaning jobs. (Erlenmeyer flasks, batches of vials, etc.) If you enjoy watching your wort during active fermentation, you will love to watch this stuff clean. Lots of bubbles. The best price I have found for it is from Northern Brewers, in Saint Paul, MN. They are at WWW.nbrewer.com No affiliation, blah, blah.... Oh yeah, if I feed my spent hops to crawdads, that are then water- bath canned without pH adjustment, will my dog die from consuming the second hand hops, or from botulism? Ray Estrella Cottage Grove MN ray-estrella at msn.com ****** Never Relax, Constantly Worry....have a better Homebrew ****** Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 21:29:48 -0500 From: robert57 at pilot.msu.edu Subject: fluorescent lights I understand sunlight is harmful to hops. Is anyone aware of the detrimental effects of fluorescent lights on hops at different stages of brewing? Fermentation should be done in the dark. How about during preparation of the wort, transferring to a secondary, and bottling? Should one have only incandescent lights in all the preparation areas? Thanks for the help. Novice Partial Mash Brewer, Bob Hess Lansing, Michigan Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 21:24:16 -0600 From: "Ray Estrella" <ray-estrella at email.msn.com> Subject: mercy killing? Hello to all, Bob tells us to, >put this priming thing to bed! >Bottom line: You find something that works wonders, you use that >technique for ever and ever! Good for you!! >Debates as to which priming method is superior are moot - Is the >beer carbonated as a result of your priming technique? Yes? BINGO!! >A job well done. End of story! >I submitted a comment regarding this debate, which I later >regretted, because all it helped to do was to give a little more life >to a topic that should have died shortly after it hatched. >Let's put the damn thing out of our misery! Bob has probably not been reading the HBD for any great length of time. If he had, he would know that some subjects are going to keep popping up, and be long, drawn out affairs. At least once a year we will hear about the pro/cons of blow-off tubes, Clinitest, or plastic and glass fermenters. And it will usually be the same people, posting about the subjects, saying pretty much the same thing. But because of new blood, like Bob, "submitting a comment regarding this debate" we often find new ways to look at old ideas. I very rarely bottle, so I do not really care about the issue, but I read each post because I am interested in the oxidation angle. On the other hand, RIMS setups hold no appeal to me, so after scanning the first paragraph, I just PgDn through the rest of the post. But I would never dream of suggesting that we stop commenting on RIMS, or MixMashers, or whatever else I do not want to read about today. Bob will find that when there is no more interest in a subject, it will die out on it's own. But like a bad penny, or an un-employed brother-in-law it will be back. And next time we just might learn something new. To me that makes it all worthwhile. Ray Estrella Cottage Grove MN ray-estrella at msn.com ****** Never Relax, Constantly Worry....have a better Homebrew ****** Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 23:43:12 EST From: YYZCLAYTON <YYZCLAYTON at aol.com> Subject: Open Fermenting / Mashing wheat malt Greetings, While browsing the Michigan Microbrewery and Brewpub Guide (http://www.phd.msu.edu/bice/beer/brew.html), I noticed there are a number of brewpubs and microbreweries in Michigan that use open fermentation. This piqued my interest in open fermentation and I am thinking about giving it a try. There was a good thread on open fermentation three or four years ago but I thought It could use some discussion again. I'll summarize any private responses I get and post back to the digest. Here are the questions I have: 1. What type of container do you use (SS, plastic, glass, other) and how big? Do you have any type of drain valve? 2. Is there any special care needed for the fermenter? Cleaning, sanitizing etc.? 3. The Kraeusen head is supposed to provide a protective layer but does anyone cover the fermenter? If so, with what, when, and for how long? 4. Where do you ferment? I guess I mean how clean of an area does one need to be successful? 5. Do you skim the dirty head? If so, when and how often? 6. Do you crop the yeast? If so when and how often? How do you store the yeast? 7. Are there any yeast strains that seem to be better suited to open fermentation? Which ones? 8. Do you rack the beer to a secondary? If so, when? Did I leave anything out ? For my next batch I am planning to brew an American style wheat beer loosely modeled after Redhook Wheathook (before they called it a hefe-weizen). I plan on using 50/50 Klages 2 row and German wheat malt with maybe a bit of carapils or Munich malt as well (< 1 lb) OG approximately 1.040. My hops are Mt Hood and Ultra or Hersbruker at about 25 to 30 IBU and the yeast is Wyeast 1272 (American Ale II). I don't really care for the flavor of the Bavarian wheat beers which is why I chose an American ale strain of yeast. Any comments on the recipe? My question is, do I need a protein rest for wheat malt, or will an infusion mash at around 150 deg. F be ok? I know a protein rest is advised for raw wheat but I'm not sure about wheat malt. I mash in a cooler so if a rest is advised, I was going to mash the wheat (I assume it can convert itself, eh?) on the stove top around 130 deg. F for 10 to 20 minutes then boost it up to 150 and mash it with the barley malt in the cooler at 150 or so. What is the collective wisdom on this? Thanks for your time and consideration. Now back to my cave. Joe Clayton Farmington Hills, MI USA yyzclayton at aol.com ak753 at detroit.freenet.org Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 98 20:53:53 From: "Hans E. Hansen" <hansh at teleport.com> Subject: Displaying my ignorance (part II) I submitted a dissertation on carbohydrates in beer, which would have showed up today or yesterday, depending upon when the HBD server chooses to display it. In it I gave my pure guess on how to calculate carbo content, largely based upon hydrometer readings (which is the only tool most of us have fo attempt such foolhardyness). I have since looked at a Bud Light can which shows 110 calories, 6.6 grams carbo, 0.9 gram protein. (6.6 + 0.9) * 4 = 30 calories attributable to the listed components. The remainder (80 calories) must be the alcohol. Question: Isn't alcohol a carbohydrate? Won't it contribute to weight gain? (SOMETHING is causing my beer gut!) What, if anything, is the dietary contribution of alcohol? Some call alcohol 'empty calories'. I never figured out exactly what this means, since it must be real calories if it is digested and contributes to weight gain. I am trying to lose weight via a low carbohydrate diet, and am confused as to how to count beer. (We can't give up everything now, can we?) Is Bud Light just 6.6 grams carbo, or is it closer to 106/4 = 26.5 grams (the number of grams as derived from the total calorie content minus the protein)? Not that I actually plan to drink Bud Light. If the alcohol doesn't count, then it would seem the homebrewer should aim for higher attenuation (diet-wise). Hmmmm..... Hans E. Hansen hansh at teleport.com Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 09 Apr 1998 01:00:16 -0400 From: Ludwig <dludwig at us.hsanet.net> Subject: Mash Mixer Mixed Results? Dana Edgell floated several good ideas for even mash temperature > 1)Old ice cream motor/MixMasher thing. > 2)copper pipes. Has anyone ever tried simply inserting some thin > copper pipes into the middle of the mash? First of all, I mash in a 5 gal Gott cooler and notice a large variation in mash temperature from top of the mash to the bottom without stirring. For example, 2 batches ago I was reading 150 deg F at the bottom and 156 near the top. So I typically stir frequently to get more even temperature and more importantly, to just get a good handle on what my mash temperature really is. Believe me, I've done a lot of poking around with a thermistor on a stick and have decided that you can't achieve even temp distribution without frequent stirring or recirc. So I recently built a mash mixer. From top to bottom, the motor is a kiddie car gear motor from American Science and Surplus. This idea came from someone on the digest. The drive shaft is 7/8 hardwood dowel and attached to the dowel are four oak blades, each 2 inches wide by 3 inches long. The blades form a diameter of 6 inches. About this gear motor. It was cheap ($12). I was a little worried about power. So for the maiden mash, I had 8 lbs of grains in the tun, dry, and ran the mixer with a 1 amp battery charger on the 6 volt setting and got about 60 RPM. Adding 1.5 gal of hot water the motor initially lugged to about 30 RPM. With this thick of a mash, the mixer doesn't do well as far as mixing. No problem with power though, just bump up to 12 volts and it cranks right along. This mixer setup does much better with more water. I was mashing with 2.5 gal and the mixer ran on 6 volts for 2.5 hours continuous during the mash. The motor has a small cooling fan and never got hot. But the best part is, I couldn't detect any variation in temp throughout the mash. The mixer is half of the system I'm trying to build. The diameter of the mixer is only 6 inches so I can install a coil between the blade tips and the wall of the mash tun. What I really want is good positive circulation passed the coils so that the mixer would pull the mash up from the bottom and form a circulation pattern that is up in the middle and down along the sides and over the coil. The mixer, in it's current form is not building enough of that kind of circulation and I think it's because the rotating blades impart a tangential velocity on the mash which reduces the vertical velocity. Interesting thing, when I turn the mixer shaft by hand, just a quick 1/4 turn really produces a lot of thrust. By turning the mixer in spurts, it really pushes the mash up and does just what I want it to do. Kindof like a washing machine. C.D., aren't you working on one of those? So, anyway, getting to the point. I'm thinking about adding fixed vanes in between the two sets of blades and maybe above the top set of blades. Nothing new with that. Axial compressors wouldn't function well without stator vanes. I've got a way of doing this and would like to trade ideas with anyone who has done something similar. Cheers, Dave Ludwig Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 21:39:16 -0800 From: Kyle Druey <druey at ibm.net> Subject: Re: Hazed and Confused Brewsters, I received an interesting and detailed email from a mystery beer wizard (MBW) who responded to my protein rest post of a few days ago. He is not a poster, but said I could. MBW> Hazes are finely suspended light scattering particles which form in bright beers over time. The can consist of calcium oxalate, un-degraded starch and dextrins(rarely), B-glucan and/or pentosans. Most frequent type of haze if formed from phenols and polypeptides. It is the polyphenols that oxidise over time to produce haze. One reaction that removes high concentration of polyphenols is the interaction of polyphenols with proteins in the copper boil. So to contradict your friend Kunze degrading the HMW proteins to MMW proteins will aid in better head retention, more mouth feel, and also better hot and cold break, by the interaction of polyphenols with proteins. So remember its the polyphenols that are the major producers of haze. KMD> But not the HMWP? MBW> You got it!! Its the polyphenols that are the problem. If you get good hot and cold breaks and dont transfer the cold break to your secondary you should have no problems with any type of protein. Chill haze polypeptides 10,000-60,000 MW, beer foam polypeptides 10,000-15,000 MW, beer foam more associated to carbohydrate 10,000-15,000 MW derived from storage protein hordein. MBW> With respect to the Siebel expert protein rest at 135 will not do much is correct, proteolysis is most rapid at 50-55C(122-131), 135 is too high. Remember non-biological hazes are unavoidable, but to reduce the amount of haze use low nitrogen barley, low polyphenol barley, avoid alkaline mash, avoid excessive last runnings, a good boil and break and use copper finnings to assist in your breaks(Irish moss). KMD> What about the mantra here on the HBD that resting in the range of KMD> 132 F to 140 F will favor degradation of HMWP to MMWP, and minimize KMD> degradation of MMWP to LMWP? MBW> Remember its the same enzyme so at higher temps its going to be less active and produce less of all types of proteins. 132 is at the high end and 140 you are starting to activate starch conversion. It shouldnt matter anyway. *** Oh well, so much for distinguishing between peptidase and proteinase rests. Thought this was interesting... comments? Any takers want to defend Kunze? If any of youse xpurtz provide info please use terms us garage brewers can understand, like use the term sea monkeys instead of polyphenols, etc. Now back to the regularly scheduled program of how botulism will form if your BAC is > 0.08 and you place your craw/cray-fish/dads/daddys in a pickle bucket that is stirred with a mixing apparatus. obligatory smiley follows... :) Kyle Druey Bakersfield, CA Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 23:12:44 -0600 From: "Rob Moline" <brewer at ames.net> Subject: The Jethro Gump Report The Jethro Gump Report >From: Al Korzonas <korz at xnet.com> >Subject: Change of heart? >He then said, "I know who you are... you're one of those guys from >the brew network!" He refered to us as "a strange group of weirdos" >and "cheapskate weirdos." He said that he has been brewing for >30 years, and knew more about brewing than anybody on the network. Ah, I knew that my former boss had a history, but I always thought that it was more likely to be found in a Justice Department File, rather than a homebrew shop....!!! One never knows, does one? jethro Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 22:38:56 -0800 From: Charles Hudak <cwhudak at gemini.adnc.com> Subject: Berliner Weiss, Baker's Yeast Jon writes: >I'm planning a Berliner-Weisse as my first all-grain, any advice from the >gurus is welcomed. Don't know if I qualify as a guru but I'll give it a shot... >Infusion mashing in 5-gal brewpot with homemade EZmasher, target 155F. >60 min full volume boil. This is a little high for the mash temp IMHO. This will give you a much higher terminal gravity then if you mash at 146-148 which is what I would shoot for. The biggest problem with attempts at Berliner Weisses that I've seen is too much malty body and sweetness. In an authentic BerWeiss, I think that the bacteria help to reduce the dextrines and unfermentable sugars that would be caused by a higher mash temp. In your case, since you aren't going to use anything but a pure S. Cerevisiae culture, you won't have that benefit and will need to mash lower in order to get the proper dryness in the finish. >At racking to secondary, add unknown quantity (I've read 1tsp/5gal) of 88% >food-grade lactic acid to taste. Let's see, that is about 5mL. You could easily get away with 2-3 times that amount. I would use that amount for a Dry Stout--a Berliner Weiss could stand *much more* sourness. Peter writes: >I have difficulty reconciling these results with your post that baker's >yeast use the carbohydrates present in flour. Could you please >enlighten us? > Hmmm, I don't think that bakers yeast can use the carbs in flour. In every loaf of bread that I've ever made the recipe calls for sugar (usually 1 Tbsp) which is the food for the yeast. C-- Charles Hudak in San Diego, California (Living large in Ocean Beach!!) cwhudak at adnc.com ICQ# 4253902 "If God had intended for us to drink beer, he would have given us stomachs." - --David Daye Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 28 Mar 1998 03:04:41 -0500 From: ensmingr at npac.syr.edu Subject: calories & carbohydrates in beer Several HBDer's have written about carbohydrate and calorie levels in beer. Interested readers may find relevant data on this topic at: http://www.npac.syr.edu/users/ensmingr/beer/beerdata.html Cheers! Peter A. Ensminger ensmingr at npac.syr.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 28 Mar 1998 05:46:16 -0500 (EST) From: Some Guy <pbabcock at oeonline.com> Subject: Lookit the colors, man! Whoa! Greetings, Beelings! Take me to your lager... > Greetings! I just stopped by the old homebrew store, only to find that > they now carry "acid malt"... Dood! That's, like, malt from the sixties, man! Timothy Leary malts. Oooooo! Lookit the colors! Groooooviiiiiiieeeeeeeeeee See ya! Pat Babcock in SE Michigan pbabcock at oeonline.com Home Brew Digest Janitor janitor@hbd.org HBD Web Site http://hbd.org The Home Brewing Page http://oeonline.com/~pbabcock/brew.html Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 28 Mar 1998 09:13:21 -0800 From: "S. Wesley" <Wesley at maine.maine.edu> Subject: Contests, Hombrew Stores, Piezo Ignition and Reverse RIMS. Dear HBD'ers, The recent Satan thread brought back some traumatic memories of a Home Brew contest I entered and served as a steward at back in the mid 80's. The whole experience put me off contests for life. The judges to whom I was serving the beers were often arrogant and ignornant. and they semed more focused on showing off their "knowledge" and slamming the lower quality beers than providing people with good quality feedback on how to improve their brewing. I hope that this sort of thing does not go on any more, but I still can't help but wonder If the enviornment of sorting through lots of beers to try to single out the best in a category is the best way to provide brewers with helpful feedback on their brewing. This to me is the most useful function of contests. As I said I hope that contests are doing a better job in this regard today. I wonder if a change of format to a homebrew festival might not be a more useful medium for exchange of information and feedback. Opportunities could be provided for face to face discussions as well as written evaluations of beer from a much larger cross section of people. What I envision is renting a hall, having sections for each style with tables set up. Participants could spend some time serving their beer and some time wandering aroung talking to and tasting the beers of others who are bringing the same style. Clearly the logistics of this type of operation are daunting and it would require each participant to supply a larger quantity of beer than necessary for a contest. It might be desirable to restrict the festival to a single style, or limit contributions to one style per person to reduce the logistical nightmare. I heard ecohes of many experiences I've had with homebrew stores In reading Al K's post about Wine & brew By you INC. I would like to buy locally but I often wind up walking out of the store annoyed by the behavior of the employees. Being treated like a cheapskate because I refuse to pay $50 for a 25 kilo sack of M&F pale annoys me. Getting unsolicited lectures on brewing techinques from extract brewers with two years of experience rubs me the wrong way. I'm about ready to give up on these people and switch to mail order. Does anyone have a polite but effective way of dealing with these kind of people? I was wandering through the gas grill section in my local department store the other day when I came across a nifty gaget for my brewery. A piezo electric ignition system for propane burners. I'm sure many other people already use them, but I was so tickled by having push button ingnition that I thought I'd point out this option for anyone who doesn't know about it. From time to time I read the postings about RIMS systems and wonder if anyone has ever tried running a RIMS system backwards. I believe one of the potential hazards of this type of system is excessive compaction of the grain bed. Flow rate, and the rate of temperature change as well as overall system size may be limited because of this. Some sort of intake mainifold could be placed at the surface of the mash, and fluid could be returned to the mash tun drain. A more powerful pump might be needed to make the whole thing work. I'd be curious to know if anyone has tried this and if so, how it worked. Regards Simon "It was as if nature was hard by and brewing on a large scale" -Charles Dickens Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 28 Mar 1998 11:19:41 -0400 From: AJ <ajdel at mindspring.com> Subject: What I Wrote/DO What I have noted here many times is that the broth over yeast starters which I induce to grow faster by keeping the oxygen level high (i.e. by passing bursts of oxygen when the DO level gets low) are really foul tasting, sour and foul smelling. I attribute these unpleasantries to the metabolic products of yeast growth as opposed to the metabolic products of yeast ferementation phase. I ensure that a minumum amount of these products get into the beer by decanting the broth and saving only the slurry. Of course some of the broth gets into the beer but its perhaps only a couple of hundred mL in a 15 gal batch. Al K. wrote: >Can someone who has a Dissolved Oxygen meter please see how >much oxygen still water picks up over the course of 12 hours? I'm always happy to oblige where convenient. The DO meter is up to snuff and polarized so I boiled three gallons of water yesterday AM and measured when I got home from work some 10 hrs later. The DO was at 63% of saturation. I let the water stand overnight and measured again. DO had only increased to 70%. Note that 100% is approached assymptotically i.e. the rate of increase of DO slows dramatically as more O2 is taken up. The rate at which O2 enters the water depends on (100 - DO %) and the surface area of the water. The rate at which a given influx increases DO depends on the total water (wort) volume. Thus the best way to get oxygen in is to have a large surface to volume ratio. That's why fine bubbles work best. Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 28 Mar 1998 09:14:01 -0600 From: Louis Bonham <lkbonham at phoenix.net> Subject: microscopy Hans asks about what techniques are needed to see and distinguish brewing bacteria with a microscope. In my May-June BT column I'll be describing a number of simple lab tests that can be done with a minimal lab, inclduing descriptions on some differential techniques that you can use to determine what bugs you've got growing in your beer or wort. To answer Hans' question directly, however, what you want to do is gram stain your samples. (You'll need a gram staining kit, which contains about 4 different reagents and will almost certainly come with instructions.) Yeast, trub, pedios, and lactos stain purple (gram positive); acetos, flavos, and coliforms stain pink (gram negative). Be warned, however, that just examining your beer or wort microscopically is *not* an adequate QA/QC technique -- in order for you to be able to detect anything other than grossly-infected beer, you'll need to run some sort of force test or other culture first. E.g., a count of 500 bacteria per ml would send the QA/QC department of any brewery into hysterics -- that's very high. But one drop of such beer would contain less than 25 cells, so looking at less than a drop of that under the scope would be looking for the proverbial needle in the haystack. In doing the work up for this column, Jim Liddil graciously send me some of his cultures of lactos and pedios. I've stained some slides of these to keep as reference. If anyone would like me to do a couple for them, lemme know -- I need the gram-staining practice. (Since Jim didn't charge me, I won't charge you anything except a SASE-- that the HBD way!) Louis K. Bonham Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 28 Mar 1998 09:42:23 -0600 From: Satan 666 <satan666 at poohgee.com> Subject: Re: Satan bashing >Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 14:41:43 -0000 >From: "Jim & Shelly Wagner" <wagner at toad.net> >Subject: Re: offensive behavior > MY GOD!!! I'M OFFENDED!!! I'M >THE GREATEST BREWER ON THE FACE OF THE EARTH...HOW DARE YOU......give me a >break, when I saw that "satan" was the cobrewer, I could not stop laughing( >for those who do not know, references to the devil are often a trademark of >high gravity Belgian-styled beers) Actually, I was quite flattered over the whole reference and would like to publicly say Thank you to all brewers that list me as a brewing partner. I will save a special place for you all next to Dave and Al. I hope this clears up any questions. -Satan copyright 1998 by satan PS... I have your new plaid suit waiting for you to pick it up Pat (Pleased to meet you... Can you guess my name?) Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 28 Mar 98 12:02:12 -0600 From: bob_poirier at adc.com Subject: RE: Scratched Glass/Cleaning Primaries In HBD #2671, Dan Morley asks: >Also, what methods of cleaning do people use for cleaning major crud >from glass primary fermenters? Try B-Brite! It does a GREAT job of removing all of the junk in glass fermenters, even if you've left the carboy sitting around for a while, and the gunk has totally dried up. It's also great for removing labels, except from Sam Adams bottles - Jim K. must hermetically seal those damned labels to the bottles, because I can't ever get them clean without some major elbow grease! Anybody got any tips? B-Brite uses active oxygen as the main cleaning agent (I think). Just mix 1 tablespoon per gallon of HOT water (the hotter the better, I've found). And once the B-Brite has done it's job, rinse with COLD water (once again, the colder the better). WARNING!!! Be very careful when handling full carboys that you're cleaning with B-Brite, because it makes the glass slick as hell!! It's almost like you've poured dish soap all over the carboy. I've witness a carboy full of fresh wort (after an exhaustive all-grain demo) get dropped because of trace amounts of B-Brite solution on the carboy. Don't try this trick at home!!! Good luck, and please, BE CAREFUL!!! Beer (in any form) is a terrible thing to waste! Bob Poirier bob_poirier at adc.com Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 28 Mar 1998 12:38:53 -0500 From: "David R. Burley" <Dave_Burley at compuserve.com> Subject: Baker's yeast Brewsters: Peter Ensminger ( Hi, Peter) comments on the glycogen in Baker's Yeast and its respiration behavior towards glucose being dependent on the glycogen level in the yeast. For this experiment, low glycogen yeast were starved in a medium that was heavily oxygenated. Respiration of the starved yeast showed a positive response to increased glucose compared to the glycogen rich (supposedly) yeast. There was one detail left out of the experimental description. What were the glycogen rich yeast respiring, if not glucose? Since you followed the experiment with an oxygen probe, wasn't the experiment you mentioned just measuring oxygen uptake? This was a measure of aerobic catabolism or respiration, but in order to take up oxygen a carbon source had to be involved. Of course, the yeast were also able to ferment the glucose anaerobically and this experiment did not measure that. Bakers yeast is grown in a fully oxygenated wort as I recall.I suspect the total glycogen content of a one ounce packet of yeast is only a few grams and even if it were all converted to carbon dioxide wouldn't do much to raise a loaf of bread.I guess the answer to your question is another question. Why *wouldn't* Bakers yeast consume the simple carbohydrates that exist in the bread dough- independent of their glycogen level? I believe the malted barley in most bread flour is there to provide a source of simple carbohydrates for the yeast, presumably from its own sugar content and possibly to also saccharify the flour. Keep on brewin' Dave Burley Kinnelon, NJ 07405 103164.3202 at compuserve.com Dave_Burley at compuserve.com Voice e-mail OK Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 28 Mar 1998 12:38:30 -0800 From: The Holders <zymie at sprynet.com> Subject: re:RIMS cleaning In digest #2673, William Macher asked: <I wonder...how much hassle is a rims system with respect to cleaning/sanitizing? Speaking from the "coil" school of RIMS (HEARMS actually), I've developed a routine that works quite well for me. After my sparge, I flush IGOR's piping out with water to get the last remains of wort out, then start a CIP routine using a PBW solution. I cycle the solution through the system while heating it with rinse water in the HLT at the same time. After about 30 minutes of circulating, the solution is heated to about 160F. I then pump out the PBW solution, and flush the piping with the heated water from the HLT. I haven't disassembled the piping and visually inspected for sludge at this point, but I have no off flavors or infection problems, and I don't have to disassemble anything. Cleaning out the mash tun is more work than cleaning the piping system. Good Luck, Wayne Holder AKA Zymie Long Beach CA http://andinator.com/zymico/rims.html RIMS= Recirculating Infusion Mash System HEARMS= Heat Exchange Automated Recirculating Mash System PBW= Powdered Brewery Wash CIP= Clean In Place Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 22:09:30 -0500 From: Jim Wallace <jwallace at crocker.com> Subject: Re: Unknown Yeast Strain (Ringwood?) ........"Capt. Marc Battreall" <batman at terranova.net>....... >The strain is described by the Brewmaster as "Ringwood" and he also >referred to it as "1187". I looked it up in Fixs' Analysis of Brewing >Techniques and it mentioned Food Research Institute's Norwich NCYC 1187 >and also gave an unnumbered Wyeast strain. After exhaustive research on >the Internet trying to find more info on this strain, I have drawn a >blank. ...........This sounds like the yeast used by the micro 'Hopback' in England ... I trapped and isolated the yeast from their 'summer lightning' last year... and it has worked well for me... if it is the same yeast I would describe it as a spicy with a bright character... it seems to have fairly high attenuation and settles out nicely ___________________________________________ JIM WALLACE ... jwallace at crocker.com http://www.crocker.com/~jwallace ___________________________________________ Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 28 Mar 1998 20:24:55 -0500 From: Jim Bentson <jbentson at htp.net> Subject: Re: Beer Carbohydrates Kevin J MacRae writes: >Does anyone have an idea of the carbs in beer? >I'm not too interested in the calories, just the carbs. M&BS pg 784 gives the following data: " The total carbohydrates in beer can be estimated as the colour produced by anthrone in 85% sulphuric acid. For a range of beers, values between 0.89-5.98% w/v as glucose were found. Fully attenuated low carbohydrate 'lite' beers which have been brewed in the past for diabetic patients, are now available with carbohydrate contents between 0.4-0.9% w/v as glucose." 1.0% w/v corresponds to 1 g / 100ml ( or 1 kg / 100 liters ). Since there are approximately 355 ml in a 12 ounce bottle this would correspond to 3.2 - 21.3 gms per bottle for the regular beers tested and 1.4 - 3.2 gms for the 'lite' beers for diabetics Jim Bentson Centerport NY - -- Registered ICC User check out http://www.usefulware.com/~jfoltz Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 29 Mar 1998 06:52:03 EST From: Golgothus <Golgothus at aol.com> Subject: Re:Grand Cru Style? In HBD 2672 Ted Manahan writes: <Here's a question I'm working with. I brewed a credible knock-off of> <Rodenbach Grand Cru. For those of you who haven't tried this classic,> <it's surprisingly sour and aromatic. It can be startling if the drinker> <isn't ready for it.> <So the question is - what category should I use in the AHA competition?> <to expect, and if I enter under Belgian Strong Dark they may not be> <informed of the specific sub style.> <Go our and buy a bottle, and let me know what you think. Thanks for your. <thoughts!> <Ted Manahan> <tedm at cv.hp.com> <541/715-2856> <PS - I can't resist bragging. Rodenbach Grand Cru costs about $5.00 a> <bottle. My home brewed version is pretty close in taste, and I have> <almost ten gallons of the stuff. Beer geek heaven, I tell you!> Hey Ted, As far as I can see, Grand Cru is a specialty Belgian White ... though your comment on entering it in the Belgian Strong Dark makes me wonder if my information is correct. I have it listed as color: 2-4 SRM's. I don't really know much about this style of beer, but that's the info I have on hand at this time. If I am wrong, I hope someone will take the time to correct me. I would be interested in the recipe, (or even some general advice if you wish to keep it a secret for now) as I plan to brew a Grand Cru in the near future (within the month I hope) and I only have one recipe, which is the one that is in Papazian's book. Any information on this style would be helpful, and appreciated (from any source). I am still a neophyte to the brew world and to many of the styles out there, and need all the help I can get. TIA. ______________________________________________________________________________ _________ About the I 65 pub crawl and possible stops asked about by Jim Booth... When you get WAY down here in south Alabama, look for the Port City Brewery (1 (334) 438-2739) in Mobile and, if you don't mind the drive to Pensacola, Fl. you should check out the Brews Brothers Tavern (the have 18 rotating taps and approximately 130 beers on ice ... worth the trouble if you ask me). I don't have their number, but they should be listed with Long Distance Information. Let me know what you think ... if you can find time to stop. ______________________________________________________________________________ _________ I would also like to take this time to thank David R. Burley and David Luckie for their helpful input on sake and dry hopping (respectively), the information is greatly appreciated. Thank you all for your help Michael Whitt Brewster and wandering Philosopher Bragi's Brewery Mobile, Alabama Golgothus at aol.com "He who lives by the skull, will die by the skull." Return to table of contents
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