---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com


Contents:
  More on firkins (Charles Hudak)
  First Wort Hopping (Al Korzonas)
  Sam Smith clear bottles (Adam Holmes)
  Brew Your Own Real Ale At Home (Al Korzonas)
  CO2 explosions (Al Korzonas)
  Caution about party tricks ("David Johnson")
  Big Brew '98 - Update ("Brian Rezac")
  Big Brew '98 - Introduction ("Brian Rezac")
  Big Brew '98 "Rules & Regulations" ("Brian Rezac")
  Big Brew '98 Recipe ("Brian Rezac")
  Re: Why do the Germans filter out the Weizen yeast? (Scott Murman)
  wheat malt diastatic power (Jeremy Bergsman)
  haze in wheat beers (Mark E. Lubben)
  Old Peculier (Mick Honnor)
  Splashing HSA (KennyEddy)
  well thermometers (Mike Spinelli)
  Gun rights (Domenick Venezia)
  Phils new Philler (Torque)
  Edinburgh pubs/ales? (Pat Lohmann)
  Green color (JGORMAN)
  Two democratic doctors (Samuel Mize)
  Coors plant in D/FW (Samuel Mize)
  Surplus Sanitizer ("Goodale, Daniel CPT-- 4ID HHC DISCOM CDR")
  RE: Keg Stratification Solved (John Wilkinson)
  re: a small HSA experiment ("Jesse Benbow")
  Re: Yeast management for Weizens ("Hubert Hanghofer")
  (longish) Oxidation and yeast (was Budweiser's "born on "etc.)(longish) Oxidation and yeast (was Budweiser's "born on "etc ("Dr. Pivo")
  Bacterial Worries (greg_young)




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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Wed, 08 Apr 1998 11:20:54 -0700
From: Charles Hudak <cwhudak at gemini.adnc.com>
Subject: More on firkins

George writes:
>     Thanks to all who have responded to my cask conditioning question.  
>     There is a slight problem, though:  I wasn't clear in my first post!
>     
>     My confusion about this stems from a video I saw of an English brewer 
>     dry-hopping and fining firkins (I think it was Bateman's).  Hop cones 
>     were added to the firkin, sans bag, along with the Isinglass.
>     
>     How is it that the hops don't clog the plumbing at the pub or end up 
>     in the patron's glass?  Is there something about firkin plumbing I 
>     don't know (not unlikely)?  This has lead me to think that it may be 
>     possible to dry hop in any keg without a hop bag, but I can't see how.
>     
>     Using a hop bag (as all have suggested) will work fine in a corny keg, 
>     but how would you retrieve it from a firkin?

The tap which is hammered in to the keystone has small holes in it which
will filter out any large hop material. Small particles can and would get
through (such as small lupulin glands that are free floating). Since hops
float they don't consitute a problem until the very end of the keg. At that
point, much like the devices that folks use in their kettles to strain out
hops, the tap prevents the solid material from passing and allows the beer
through.

You *can* use a bag in a firkin--*I* do. I use muslin sacks since they are
cheap and disposable.  Sometimes they are hard to get out when cleaning the
keg but I'd rather do that then clean huge amounts of free hop chaff from
out of the floor drains.

C--


Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 13:54:00 -0500 (CDT)
From: Al Korzonas <korz at xnet.com>
Subject: First Wort Hopping

My experience with first wort hopping, although limited, was a real
eye-opener.  In my experience, it added a TON of hop flavour, virtually
no hop aroma and about 21% utilisation regarding bitterness (although
this was strictly by taste... no lab tests).  I put *all* the hops into
the kettle (Saaz pellets in a hop bag) while running off.  The beer style
was a Bohemian Pilsner and all that hop flavour was completely incorrect
for the style.  The articles on FWH never suggested putting all the hops
during runoff.  They all suggested taking the aroma portion (last 10 min)
and putting only *that* portion in while the kettle is filling (and leaving
it in throughtout the boil).  I needed to take it to the extreme for my
experiment and I made some pretty weird-tasting beer as a result.  I
learned another lesson on that batch: you can't save an over hop-flavoured
batch of Bohemian Pilsner by dryhopping.  The dryhopped aroma (despite
having been done with whole Saaz) was wrong for a Bohemian Pilsner.

Mind you... the result was *beer* and the result was drinkable... but
it defied categorisation.

Al.

Al Korzonas, Palos Hills, IL
korz at xnet.com

My new website (still under construction, but up-and-running):
     http://www.brewinfo.com/brewinfo/


Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 13:40:19 -0600 (MDT)
From: Adam Holmes <adamholm at holly.ColoState.EDU>
Subject: Sam Smith clear bottles

I've read about how light can affect beer in a negative way.  Thus, most
brewers choose brown bottles that cut down most light transmission to the
beer.  So why does the famous Samual Smith Brewery put most of their beer
in clear bottles.  Are the porters and oatmeal stouts I've had been less
than perfect?  Do they taste much different coming out of a keg in an
English pub?   I always think their beer tastes superb (especially the
Imperial Stout) so I wonder how much of an effect this light has on beer.

Just curious,
Adam Holmes
Fort Collins, CO 



Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 17:00:36 -0500 (CDT)
From: Al Korzonas <korz at xnet.com>
Subject: Brew Your Own Real Ale At Home

Brad writes:
>Get the best recipe from Wheeler & Protz's
>Brew Your Own Real Ale At Home. This book is my bible
>for British Ales. Hi Graham!

I would just like to suggest that you read this book from back
to front... you see... *after* all the recipes, they have a page
in which they admit that the hop utilisation % they used in the
recipes is rather low.  I also felt that the mash efficiency
was a bit low, relative to what many HB'ers in the US get.

Seriously, I suggest that you use the percentages of various
malts and the OG and BUS, But recalculate the grain bill and
hop rates using your own system's efficiency and utilisation.

Al.


Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 17:14:55 -0500 (CDT)
From: Al Korzonas <korz at xnet.com>
Subject: CO2 explosions

AJ writes:
>virtually incompressible. At this point the safety disc blows. As I
>recall they are set for 2500 - 3000 psi. This is a spectacular and loud
>event but nothing gets damaged unless the gauges get bunged when the
>bottle falls over.

If you are ever the misfortune of having a CO2 tank do this (or snap
off the regulator), GET THE HECK OUT OF THERE and leave the door open
on the way out!

More brewers die from CO2 asphyxiation than from any other brewing-related
cause.

Oh... and after you air the place out, make sure you relight all the
pilot lights on the hot water header and furnace...

Al.


Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 08:28:33 -0500
From: "David Johnson" <dmjalj at inwave.com>
Subject: Caution about party tricks

A quick note about the party trick suggested by Jeremy Bergsman. This can
cause severe nausea and vomiting when done in the non-comatose person. I
suggest not doing this to your friends.
	Dave Johnson


Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 21:34:09 -0600
From: "Brian Rezac" <brian at aob.org>
Subject: Big Brew '98 - Update

The response to my initial post about Big Brew '98 has been amazing.
I have responded to roughly 200 requests for more information.  I wanted
to take the time to thank everyone who has responded to date.  Remember that
you need to register your sites by Friday, April 24th.

I have run in to one small problem though.  Having just returned from
working on the World Beer Cup in Atlanta, I found that my hard drive had
crashed (Monkey Virus).  As I promised, I did not disseminate any email
addresses and my email messages had not been backed up.  Therefore,
I have no record of who has requested the "rules" or who has already
registered their site.  (Having a hard drive crash is the ultimate in
security.)

So, if you had registered your site, please do so again to ensure that I
have your information.  If you have not registered yet, or if you haven't
heard about Big Brew '98, I encourage you to read my following posts
for more information.

Due to the overwhelming response, I am following this message with all the
details on Big Brew '98.  I encourage all of you to participate.

Thanks for your time.

Big Brew '98
E Pluribus (Br)Unum!  -   {From Many, One (Brew)!}

Brian Rezac
Administrator
American Homebrewers Association
736 Pearl Street, Boulder, CO  80302
brian at aob.org        http:/beertown.org







Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 22:04:15 -0600
From: "Brian Rezac" <brian at aob.org>
Subject: Big Brew '98 - Introduction

In 1998, the American Homebrewers Association will celebrate its 20th
Anniversary as well as the 10th Anniversary of National Homebrew Day, the
only national holiday that celebrates beer and brewing.  We felt that to
properly celebrate these significant occurrences, we needed an equally
momentous event.  What we came up with is Big Brew '98.

Big Brew '98 is the record-setting attempt of the simultaneous brewing of
many small homebrew batches of the same beer recipe by homebrewers across
the nation.  Big Brew '98 will take place on National Homebrew Day,
Saturday, May 2, 1998.  The plan is to have homebrew shops, homebrew clubs
and individual homebrewers host and oversee each brewing site across the
country.  Then, on the day of the event, homebrewers would brew at these
registered sites.  We will gather information, such as, total number of
participating brewers, total number of gallons brewed, total amount of hops
and malt used, etc.

Currently, I have a proposal in front of the Records Committee of Guinness
Media, the publishers of Guinness Book of Records for them to include this
homebrewing record in the 1999 version of their book.  However, we do not
have a guaranteed commitment from them that this record attempt will be
included in their book...Yet!

The recipe that we will be brewing is based on Little Apple Brewing
Company's "Big 12" Barley Wine, created and brewed by Rob Moline and winner
of the Gold Medal in the Barley Wine category at the 1996 Great American
Beer Festival.  We will have two versions of this recipe, an all grain and
an extract/steeped grain version.  We will be flying Rob out to Boulder to
have him available to homebrewers via an online chat room on the day of the
event.

We want this event to encourage homebrewing at all levels by any and all
homebrewers throughout the country and we need your help to make it happen.
The success of Big Brew '98 depends directly on the participation of as many
homebrewers as possible throughout the country.

In closing, let me add that often in groups or forums, homebrewers discuss
differences in brewing levels, techniques and opinions.  It's time we come
together to celebrate our similarities and simply homebrew a batch together.

E Pluribus (Br)Unum!
{From Many, One (Brew)!}

Brian M. Rezac
Administrator
American Homebrewers Association








Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 22:06:57 -0600
From: "Brian Rezac" <brian at aob.org>
Subject: Big Brew '98 "Rules & Regulations"

Big Brew '98
"Rules & Regulations"

What is it?
- --------------
Big Brew '98 is the record-setting attempt of the simultaneous brewing of
many small homebrew batches of the same beer recipe by homebrewers across
the nation.

Purpose
- ------------
 - To celebrate the 10th Anniversary of National Homebrew Day and the 20th
     Anniversary of American Homebrewers Association.
 - To promote and encourage all levels of homebrewing by any and all
     homebrewers.
 - To organize an event where homebrewers can stand up and be counted as
     part of a large homebrewing community.

The AHA will acknowledge and award a prize to the brewing site that has the
largest number of participating brewers.

The AHA will acknowledge and award a prize to the brewing site that brews
the most gallons of "Big 10/20" Barley Wine.

Guidelines
- ---------------
All participating brewers must brew either version of "Big 10/20" Barley
Wine and start brewing at a specific time.

Whatever brewing technique or process is used, the start of brewing for Big
Brew '98 is defined as the initial lighting of the burner.  (See the
Starting Time for the synchronized start time for your specific time zone.)

Brewing Sites:
Each Brewing Site must have a Site Director and two Independent Witnesses.
There is also an option to have an Assistant Site Director or two people
acting as Site Co-Directors.  We require that at least one of the directors
has an e-mail address to expedite coordination of Big Brew '98.

Each Brewing Site must be pre-registered with the AHA by April 24, 1998.
(See Registering Your Site.)

We recommend and prefer that the Brewing Site is a homebrew community
gathering place, such as a homebrew supply shop, brewery, brewpub, homebrew
club meeting place or community center.  However, since we are celebrating
HOMEbrewing, we will allow individual homebrewers to register
themselves as a Residential Brewing Site.  The individual brewer at these
sites will act as the Site Director and must still have two Independent
Witnesses.  The AHA will include the Residential Brewing Sites in our record
attempt totals, but there is a possibility that Guinness Book of Records
will not.  Therefore, we encourage you to make Big Brew '98 a multi-brewer,
community event.

Staffing
- -----------
Site Director:
The Site Director can have an Assistant Site Director or a Site Co-Director.
We require that at least one Director have an e-mail address to expedite the
coordination of Big Brew '98.  This person will be the liaison between the
AHA and all the participating brewers at his or her brewing site.  The Site
Director, Assistant Site Director and Site Co-Directors can also be
participating brewers.

The Site Director's duties and responsibilities are as follows:
 -  Register the Brewing Site before April 24, 1998.
      (See Registering Your Site.)
 - Register the individual brewers to that site on National Homebrew Day,
     May 2, 1998.
 - Ensure that all participating brewers start brewing at the appropriate
time.
     (See Starting Time Chart.)
 - Ensure that all participating brewers follow one of the versions of the
    "Big 10/20" Barley Wine recipe.  (See "Big 10/20" Barley Wine Recipe.)
 - Collect all statistical information and totals needed by the AHA and
     Guinness Media for the record attempt.
     (Forms will be supplied by the AHA once the site is registered.)
 - E-mail the statistical information totals to Brian Rezac, brian at aob.org,
by
     12:00 noon on Sunday, May 3, 1998.
 - Mail all original forms and documentation to the AHA by Wednesday,
      May 6, 1998.
 - Check and obey the local and state laws that pertain to homebrewing in
     public areas.

Independent Witnesses:
Each brewing site is required to have two (2) Independent Witnesses.  The
two Independent Witnesses at each brewing site will verify all statistical
information gathered by the Site Director.  The Independent Witnesses can
not be participating brewers.


Starting Time
- ------------------
Big Brew '98 will take place on National Homebrew Day, May 2, 1998.  The
official start of brewing is defined as the initial lighting of the brewing
burners.  This will be to heat water for the mash (all-grain recipe version)
or the steep (extract/steeped grains recipe version).

Synchronizing this initial step, lighting the burners, is very important in
order to qualify for inclusion in the Guinness Book of Records.
Participating brewers must be in place with brewing equipment set up and
ready to begin brewing before the starting time.

Refer to the chart below for the starting time on May 2nd, 1998 for your
specific time zone.

Time Zone                                        Start Time
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
Eastern Standard Time (EST)         2:00 PM
Central Standard Time (CST)          1:00 PM
Mountain Standard Time (MST)    12:00 Noon
Pacific Standard Time (PST)        11:00 AM
Alaska                                              10:00 AM
Hawaii                                                9:00 AM


Registering Your Site
- -----------------------------
All brewing sites are required to register via e-mail sent directly to Brian
Rezac at brian at aob.org.  Please put "Big Brew '98 Registration" in the
subject line.  We do not wish to exclude those brewers without e-mail
access, but in order to assure fast, accurate and reliable recording of
information, we will use only one communication format to register.

Once the brewing site is registered, each Site Director will be sent a Big
Brew '98 Site Director's Packet which contains all forms and more specific
instructions.  Each Site Director will also be added to an e-mail group list
to facilitate updates, changes and coordination of Big Brew '98.

To register a Big Brew '98 Brewing Site, fill in all the information on the
following registration form and email it to Brian Rezac at brian at aob.org

(The information gathered will only be used for the purposes of
disseminating information about Big Brew '98.  None of the gathered
information will be added to any other list.)

===========================================================
                             Big Brew '98 Site Registration Form
===========================================================

Site Director's Name:
Email Address:
Street Address:
Telephone No.:
Homebrew Club Affiliation:

Site Co-Director:
Email Address:
Street Address:
Telephone No.:
Homebrew Club Affiliation:

Indicate which description is appropriate:
The Brewing Site is a:
[ ]  homebrew shop
[ ]  brewpub
[ ]  brewery
[ ]  brew on premise
[ ]  residence
[ ]  other.....explain:

Brewing Site Name:
(If Brewing Site is a business, use name of business.  If a residence, use
the homeowner's name.)
Brewing Site Contact Name:
Email Address:
Street Address:
Telephone No.:

Will there be Internet access at the Brewing Site on May 2, 1998?
Will there be Email capabilities at the Brewing Site on May 2, 1998?

Note any other details about your site that you think may be relevant:


===========================================================


Big Brew '98 Sponsors
- ----------------------------------
The AHA would like to thank Lallemand, Inc., Briess Malting Company and
Schreier Malting Company for their support.  Without their support, Big Brew
'98 would not have been possible.






Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 22:07:57 -0600
From: "Brian Rezac" <brian at aob.org>
Subject: Big Brew '98 Recipe

Big "10/20" Barley Wine   -   All Grain version
===================================
Note:  This recipe is based on Little Apple Brewing Company's "Big 12"
Barley Wine created and brewed by Rob Moline and winner of the Gold Medal in
the Barley Wine category at the 1996 Great American Beer Festival.

Batch Size:  5 Gallons

Malt
- -------
17 lb.    American two-row pale malt
  5 lb.    American Crystal Malt 20L - 40L

Mash:  90 minutes at 152 F (67 C)
Boil: 1.5 hours

Hops
- ---------
1.5 oz.   Galena (11.2% AA) (60 min.)
2 oz.      Cascade (5.5% AA) (60 min.)
2 oz.      Willamette (4.7% AA) (end of boil)

IBUs                    63
OG                      1.096 (24 P)
TG                       1.016.5 (4.1 P)
ABV                    10.4%
Ferment Temp:   68 F (20 C)
English Ale Yeast Ferment Time:  1-2 weeks
Champagne yeast  added at the end of ale yeast fermentation
Aging (prior to bottling):  minimum of 4 months



Big "10/20"  Barley Wine   -   Extract/Steeped Grain version
==============================================
Note:  This recipe is based on Little Apple Brewing Company's "Big 12"
Barley Wine created and brewed by Rob Moline and winner of the Gold Medal in
the Barley Wine category at the 1996 Great American Beer Festival.

Batch Size:  5 Gallons

Malt
- -------
10 lb.    American Pale Malt Extract
4 lb       American Amber Malt Extract
3 lb.      American Crystal Malt 20L - 40L

Steep:  20-30 minutes at 152 F (67 C)
Boil: 1.5 hours

Hops
- --------
2 oz.   Galena (11.2% AA) (60 min.)
2 oz.   Cascade (5.5% AA) (60 min.)
2 oz.   Willamette (4.7% AA) (end of boil)

IBUs                    63
OG                      1.096 (24 P)
TG                       1.016.5 (4.1 P)
ABV                    10.4%
Ferment Temp:   68 F (20 C)
English Ale Yeast Ferment Time:  1-2 weeks
Champagne yeast  added at the end of ale yeast fermentation
Aging (prior to bottling):  minimum of 4 months


If you have any questions, email me at brian at aob.org.

Big Brew '98
E Pluribus (Br)Unum!  -   {From Many, One (Brew)!}

Brian Rezac
Administrator
American Homebrewers Association
736 Pearl Street, Boulder, CO  80302
brian at aob.org        http:/beertown.org






Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 08 Apr 1998 22:47:41 -0700
From: Scott Murman <smurman at best.com>
Subject: Re: Why do the Germans filter out the Weizen yeast? 


>      The books I have all talk about this technique offering "improved 
>      stability" as if I should magically know what that means.  Stability 
>      of what?  In what way?

The most common explanation that I've heard is that lager yeast are
less prone to autolysis, and they flocculate better, so they make a
better candidate for bottle beers that may have a prolonged stay on a
store shelf.

>      Both Dave and I have noticed that our wheat beers (fermented and 
>      bottle conditioned with 3068) become clearer and suffer from heading 
>      problems as time goes on.  The body even becomes thinner.  Typically, 
>      I can expect about a 2 month shelf life on my HefeWeizen.

I guess I'm in the minority on this issue, but I've always thought
that the clarity of my homebrewed weizens was a function of the yeast
still in suspension.  Maybe I was just being naive, but a beer that
takes 1 month to clear is not uncommon for me, and a weizen beer that
takes 1-1/2 or 2 months is certainly in this same ballpark.  Eric
Warner, in his Wheat Beer book talks extensively about the need to
force cool or filter the fresh wheat beer before bottling in order to
clarify it.  He also discusses how the yeast haze will float through a
poured glass of weizen, and how the decoction brewing process results
in greater protein coagulation making it well-suited to brewing with
wheat.  

I guess I always go with Occam's Razor.  Fancy explanations requiring
invisible proteolytic activity strike me as a (book-learned) solution
looking for a problem, but I could be totally off on this.  My wheat
beers eventually pour completely clear, but always maintain a strong
head.  I always double-decoct and use either Wyeast 3068 or cultured
Schneider Weisse.

SM


Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 09 Apr 1998 00:20:28 -0700
From: Jeremy Bergsman <jeremybb at stanford.edu>
Subject: wheat malt diastatic power

Siegi asks whether wheat malt can convert adjuncts.  If you check out
the Briess site (http://www.briess.com/products.htm) you can see
that their wheat malts have about as high a diastatic power as
any of their products.  
- -- 
Jeremy Bergsman
jeremybb at leland.stanford.edu
http://www-leland.stanford.edu/~jeremybb


Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 08:30:36 -0400
From: mel at genrad.com (Mark E. Lubben)
Subject: haze in wheat beers


In HBD #2682, George De Piro continues a thread about haze in wheat bears:
> The haze is indeed caused mostly by protein-tannin complexes.

That agrees with my knowledge of German wheats (Wits have starch haze too).
When my remaining Aventinus clone cleared after three months, I assumed 
that storing it on a cold basement floor had cleared it.  The books I
read said lagering let the chill haze complexes form, then let it settle.

> In fact, part of the reason homebrewed (or nonpasteurized) wheat beers
> get clear and headless with age is because proteolytic enzymes from
> the yeast degrade the proteins responsible for heading and haze.

I don't have a Siebels quality brewing library :^( , but I hadn't read
about brewing yeast having proteolytic enzymes capable of significant
effect on the medium weight proteins from malt.  Is this effect more
pronounced in Weizen yeast like Wy3068?  I haven't seen any problems
with gradual loss of head in my lagers.  Wouldn't traditional Maerzens
suffer from heading problems caused by that effect noticibly more than
shorter aged lagers from the same brewery?  I didn't think they filtered
and bottled them until August or September.

I have also heard that infections can "chew up" a beer's head.
I thought it refered to bacteria but it might have been wild yeast.

> ... I opened a 6-month old bottle of my own dark wheat and found it
> to be clear and headless ...

My Aventinus clone was dark too.  I have heard that a bit of dark malt
helps to make clearer beers.  Hmmm...


Mark Lubben

PS: Danke to Hans Aikema for his translation of the Koelsch section
    from the book written by Prof. Narziss!



Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 9 Apr 98 14:48:18 BST
From: Mick Honnor <M.E.Honnor at swansea.ac.uk>
Subject: Old Peculier

Hi All

Hans Aikena wrote ~

>In The Real Ale Drinkers Almanic (Roger Protz) it says:
>OG 1058 ABV 5.6%
>Ingredients: pale malt, crystal malt, maize and cane sugar. Fuggles
>and other hops, whole and pellets.

In The Real Ale Almanic, Roger Protz, fifth edition, 1997, it says:
OG 1058 ABV 5.6%
Ingredients: pale malt, crystal malt, unmalted cereal, sugars. 95
units of colour. Fuggles and other varieties of whole hops. Dry-
hopped. 29 units of bitterness.

In Michael Jackson's Beer Companion, second edition, 1997, it says:
OG 1057
made from pale ale and crystal malts, torrefied (highly heated)
wheat, brewer's caramel and three sugars. It has a colour of 90-95
EBC and a bitterness of 28-29. Several hop varieties, including
Northern Brewer, are used, but Fuggles are the keynote. The beer
is also dry-hopped with Fuggles. The brewery's yeast is a mixed
strain.

Brewing Beers like those you buy, Dave Line, 1981, lists:
Dark malt extract, roast barley, crystal malt, dark brown sugar,
Fuggles hops, saccharin and black treacle.

Brew your own Real Ale at Home, Graham Wheeler and Roger Protz,
1997, lists:
Pale, crystal and black malt, maltose syrup, invert cane sugar,
Fuggles and Challenger hops.

Mark Weaver, http://markweaver,com2tom.com/home.html, something
like old peculier, lists:
Pale, crystal and black malt, Brown sugar, Molasses and Fuggles
hops.

and something like old peculier #2, lists:
Pale and crystal malt, roast barley, dark brown sugar, blackstrap
Molasses and Fuggles hops.

The Winter 1996 issue of Zymurgy lists:
Pale, crystal and black malt, maltose syrup, invert cane sugar,
Fuggles and Challenger hops. OG 1058 ABV 6.2%.

Cats Meow 2, Mike Fertsch, 1989, lists:
Dark malt extract, roast barley, crystal malt, dark brown sugar,
Fuggles hops and saccharin.

Ken Schwartz, 1995 Homebrew digest, lists:
Pale, black and chocolate malts, demerara sugar, treacle, Fuggles
hops and lactose.


Treacle is a high grade molasses.


Please email me if you have any further information on this prince
of beers or details of any other recipes.

Cheers Mick

Email ~ M.E.Honnor at Swansea.ac.uk


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Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 09:54:37 EDT
From: KennyEddy <KennyEddy at aol.com>
Subject: Splashing HSA

In HBD2682 AlK wrote, in response to my suggestion of adding water to partial-
mash wort or steeping broth by pouring into a ladle or spoon to prevent
splashing:

"As for using a spoon or ladle to
break up the flow, I believe that would be worse, actually.  The splashing
of the pouring water would cause it to have *more* surface area and therefore
pick up more oxygen (if there was oxygen there to be dissolved).  I feel
that pouring at such a rate that causes a smooth (laminar) flow would
cause the least amount of oxygen to be dissolved into the water (and then
subsequently the wort)."

If the ladle is held just at the wort level and the water poured slowly
enough, the water will tend to simply "overflow" the ladle into the wort,
rather than fanning out or otherwise exhibiting a lot of surface area
increase.  I know the problem Richard was originally asking about, there isn't
enough room across the diameter of the pot to maneuver a container of water
adequately to get a good "laminar pour", since the water must be poured from a
rather high altitude.  Of course, one could pour the water in small amounts
into a smaller vessel which *can* be lowered closer to the wort, but this can
test the patience of all but the most relaxed brewer (and perhaps pick up more
O2 in the process).

Another option is to add the water *before* sparging (if using a separate mash
vessel).  The end of the drain tubing can be submergerd so the wort enters
underwater.  This would perhaps go the furthest to preventing HSA.
Additionally, the water can be pre-boiled to (a) preheat it and (b) drive off
the dissolved oxygen that Al astutely suggests would be present in cold water.

*****
Ken Schwartz
El Paso, TX
KennyEddy at aol.com
http://members.aol.com/kennyeddy


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Date: Thu, 09 Apr 98 08:35:07 est
From: paa3983 at dscp.dla.mil (Mike Spinelli)
Subject: well thermometers

HBDers,
I 'm thinking of having a well thermometer attached to my SS
mash tun.  Does anyone have any recommendations on brand
or type?  I've seen a couple ads in BT that look pretty good.
Thanks
Mike Spinelli
Cherry Hill NJ



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Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 07:42:55 -0700 (PDT)
From: Domenick Venezia <demonick at zgi.com>
Subject: Gun rights 


Vachom <MVachow at newman.k12.la.us> states:
>The ironic presence of gun people as freedom fighters and special
>interest nuts in the same statement is, of course, the double edged
>sword of democracy.

Vachom, I would be happy to debate gun rights issues with you, OUTSIDE
THE CONTEXT OF THE HBD!  Please, let's not start a gun rights/control
thread here!

Domenick Venezia   demonick at zgi.antispam.com (remove .antispam)



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Date: Thu, 09 Apr 1998 10:48:05 -0700
From: Torque <wieleba at pce.net>
Subject: Phils new Philler

Has anyone tried the new Phil's Counter pressure bottle filler?  It's
brand new on the market and looks really simple to use.

- --
Dan E. Wieleba
BJCP Nationally Recognized Beer Judge

http://www.pce.net/wieleba/beerlink.htm




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Date: Thu, 9 Apr 98 10:45:11 EDT
From: Pat Lohmann <pat at ale.whoi.edu>
Subject: Edinburgh pubs/ales?

content-type:text/plain;charset=us-ascii
mime-version:1.0

I'll be in Edinburgh the first week in May. Anyone have any favorite pubs in
or within driving distance of the city? I'm primarily interested in local
ales and traditional food. Any breweries I should visit? I'll get out my CAMRA
guides and make a must-drink list before I go. Any personal recommendations?

Thanks,

Pat Lohmann
Woods Hole MA


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Date: 9 Apr 1998 11:00:58 -0400
From: JGORMAN at steelcase.com
Subject: Green color


I am thinking of making a green beer for St. Pat's Day next year.  Has anyone
experimented with different ways to get a good green color?  I was going to
put green food coloring in.  What effect does the food coloring (if any) have
on the beer and what happens over time?  I plan on making the beer soon to let
it age.


Jason Gorman
rIvEr DoG bReWeRy - Where dogs can be beer snobs.


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Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 10:16:49 -0500 (CDT)
From: Samuel Mize <smize at prime.imagin.net>
Subject: Two democratic doctors

Greetings,

To ignore USA politics, page down.


> From: Vachom <MVachow at newman.k12.la.us>
> Subject: the democratic paradox

 - - -
> In his HBD #2682 post, AJ writes:
> ... the 0.08 thing ... Take a page from the gun peoples' book ... while
> [we] were busy  with our jobs, families, and hobbies ... the special
> interest nuts were working full time to make sure that we are compelled
> to live proper (as they define it) lives."
> 
>  The ironic presence of gun people as freedom fighters and special
> interest nuts in the same statement is, of course, the double edged
> sword of democracy.

Pro-gunners aren't the "special interest nuts" in his statement.

The point, overall, is that there is an ongoing attempt to establish a
national neo-prohibitionist political power base.  We need to watch that.

 - - -
> those who remain eternally vigilant for gun rights ... find themselves
> ... having to argue for the right to carry concealed ceramic high caliber
> machine pistols, "cop-killer" ammunition and sten guns

Nope.  Never have, never will.* Clue: shockingly, the anti-gun HCI lies
about NRA's position.  I won't discuss this in HBD -- but I WILL point out
that it's false.
          * (except we're for responsibly owning -- not carrying -- guns
           like stens, with Class III background checks and licensing)

 - - -
> [T]his Year's Eve ... listening to automatic weapon fire chugging all
> around me ... I was reminded of any government's express duty to protect
> its wayward or wrong-minded citizens from themselves

No, the government's duty is to protect the OTHER citizens.  These
cretins, like drunk drivers, should be found, stopped and punished.

 - - -
> ... Any social contract requires ... that delicate balance
> of individual rights and civic responsibility.

If you mean individuals being responsible to their fellows (the civic
body), I agree.  If you mean a responsibility of the civic body, I
disagree.  Individual rights are balanced by individual responsibility.

 - - -
Freedom IS a double-edged sword.  As Will Rogers said, your right to swing
your fist ends where my face begins.  The correct response to a punch is
not to prohibit hands, but to prohibit (and punish) assault.

Best,
Sam Mize


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Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 10:23:28 -0500 (CDT)
From: Samuel Mize <smize at prime.imagin.net>
Subject: Coors plant in D/FW

Sorry about the off-topic nature of this post: it isn't about
beer, it's about Coors.  :-)

I heard on the radio news that the Coors plant here -- I think
i'ts in Arlington -- had problems yesterday, partial evacuation
and fire-fighters on the scene, due to ammonia fumes.

Just as I was wondering what the heck they're doing that would
release ammonia, he said that the fumes were from the Pilgrim's
Pride facility next door.

Now I'm wondering the same thing, but about chicken processing.

Will Coors be releasing a Cock Ale soon?   (Cock -- it's the
real ale)

Best,
Sam Mize


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Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 10:44:15 -0500
From: "Goodale, Daniel CPT-- 4ID HHC DISCOM CDR"
Subject: Surplus Sanitizer

To the collective,

	One of the advantages of living in a military town is easy
access to government surplus.  While browsing through a surplus store
the other day, I can across a box of "Disinfectant, Food Service
(Chlorine-Iodine Type)."  It was dirt cheap, probably because it was
"expired" in 1991.  The ingredients are listed as Trichloromelamine -
19.3%, Potassium Iodine - 28.6%, Inert Ingredients - 52.1%.  It comes in
2 pouches that make 25 gallons of sanitizer with a dosage of 257 mg/l
chlorine and 300 mg/l iodine.  It is used for disinfecting mess gear,
fresh fruits and vegetables.  It suggests a contact time of 10 minutes.
The iodine pouch is in good shape, but the chlorine pouch has become
crusty from the material inside leaking through (obviously not stored in
a cool dry place as the package says).  The outer package that holds the
other two is in good shape.

1.  Is this stuff still good to use as a brewing sanitizer?

2.  Are the concentrations good enough to sanitize thoroughly?

3.  I've worked with iodine and chlorine sanitizers before, but never
combined.  Is there some synergistic advantage to doing this?

4.  Would anybody like to try this stuff?  I've got about five packages.
Seeing as it makes 25 gallons, it is more than I could use.  If you send
me your address, I'll send you a pack to try and even suck up the
postage.

Maverick 6
Annum Turbus Canis

Maverick 6
Annum Turbus Canis



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Date: Thu, 9 Apr 98 10:51:17 CDT
From: jwilkins at wss.dsccc.com (John Wilkinson)
Subject: RE: Keg Stratification Solved

Jeff Renner's answer of continued fermentation leading to lighter beer over
time may explain my observed opposite results, to some extent.  My beers seem
to get heavier, if anything, over time in the keg.  However, I usually fine
my beers with gelatin which should remove a lot of the yeast and I tend to
transfer from keg to keg after lagering (even ales) before serving and this
may leave even more yeast behind.  Perhaps I have not experienced the lightening
with age because there is little yeast left to chew up the dextrins.

John Wilkinson - Grapevine, Texas - jwilkins at wss.dsccc.com


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Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 09:13:35 +0000
From: "Jesse Benbow" <benbowj at ava.bcc.orst.edu>
Subject: re: a small HSA experiment

In HBD#2683 on Thurs. April 9, Martin Gulaian wrote about an 
experiment to test for oxygen in a lauter tun and a boiler:

"but I thought of a quick test: I lit a match and stuck it down into
the lauter tun, and the boiling kettles.
Result:   - boiling kettle: match went out instantly. Conclusion: not 
to worry."

This was a great "I wonder if..." kind of experiment.  One thing you 
may want to keep in mind, though.  Ambient air is made up of about 
21% oxygen.  A flame will go out when that oxygen level drops to 
about 17%.  So, while the oxygen level in the boiler may well be 
significantly lower, the fact that a flame was extinguished only means 
that it is somewhere below 17%.  

Jesse Benbow in Medford, OR



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Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 18:30:09 +0100
From: "Hubert Hanghofer" <hhanghof at netbeer.co.at>
Subject: Re: Yeast management for Weizens

Hi all,

George De Piro asked in HBD#2683:

>  Why do the most breweries filter out the Weizen yeast, and bottle
>  condition with another strain?

L. Narziss wrote in "Abriss der Bierbrauerei":

"The question, if bottom or top fermenting yeast should be prefered 
for bottle conditioning, *IS HARD TO ANSWER*. Top fermenting yeast 
settles bad [note: refers to German strains, ale/lager taxonomy not yet 
established here] but the yeast sediment often takes on a flocculent, 
glutinous consistency which leads to formation of floating flakes when 
pouring into the glass. This gives cause for complaint [customer]. In 
addition, top fermenting yeast has a stronger tendency to autolysis 
than bottom fermenting yeast. The beer has shorter shelf life..."

This corresponds 100% with my experience (if anyone is interested:)
Like George De Piro and Dave Humes I've noted short shelf life of
2 months or - in my case - even less with 3086! I'm sure however
that my problems were caused by autolysis! The first signs of it
being dramatically decreasing head retention and a rise in pH level.

According to Narziss, autolysis causes secretion of protein 
degradation products like nucleotides, peptides, basic (alkaline) 
amino acids, secondary phosphates, C6-C12 fatty acids, their ethyl 
esters ***AND YEAST PROTEASES***, that in turn degrade HMW proteins and 
increase amino acids - leading to heading problems!

According to my experience these signs may even be evident in wheat 
some time before any off tastes from autolysis can be noted. -Consider 
that strong phenolic and/or estery flavors in wheat may cover flavor 
defects to some extent. I should note, that I may have some more yeast 
than you in my bottle conditioned wheat. -Using authentic fermentation 
schedules, I bottle green within 5 days after pitching (brewing), 
adjusting residual extrakt with speise (final extract is measured by 
forced fermentation). Of course I have no centrifuge to reduce yeast 
carry over, as *some* wheat breweries do but the yeast sediment I get 
is certainly within the range of the Hefetrueb-Weizen style (ue reads 
umlaut u).

In the meantime I've had some success using aerobic starters
(see HBD#2606 for details). This gives stinking starters but superior
yeast performance and viability (...no, I don't let the yeast settle
and pour off any liquid).

But IMHO - if you want to taste any Hefe Weizen at it's peak, you have 
to serve it within 6 weeks.

*****

Now let's get back to the professionals. As mentioned by George,
Prof. Back (successor of Dr.Narziss) held a lecture on "Hefe-Weizen
 -Technology and flavor variations" in Feb.98 at the "Weihenstephan
Technology Seminar".

Dr. Back made a statistic evaluation of various brewing technologies 
and their impact on flavor and aroma of wheat beers. Unfortunately only 
about 24 breweries (there are about 400 wheat breweries) entered the 
evaluation and sent their data. They were kept anonymous. The beers 
were judged by the Weihenstephan team. Vital criteria were the 
right balance of phenolics (4-VG) and esters (iso amylacetate) as well 
as the "yeast blossom" (pleasent yeasty flavors/aromas - not neutral, 
sulfury, dull, autolytic or bitter).

I managed to get the papers, so I'll try to summarize those parts that
deal with yeast management:

PASTEURIZATION:

47% pasteurize, 53% don't.
*** None of the best 6 beers were pasteurized! ***
[Be careful, George - seems if you want to increase shelf life this 
way, you sacrifice quality to some extent!]

Dr. Back points out: "all enzymes (including autolytic enzymes) are
deactivated during pasteurization - the beer is stable, also regarding
head retention (yeast proteinases are destroyed). If yeast viability
prior to pasteurization is low, then the cells break and autolytic
substances get into the beer, affecting flavor, head and 
microbiological stability."

2 ways of pasteurization were listed:
Pasteurization prior to yeast addition and bottle conditioning (only 3
breweries) and post yeast addition (4 breweries). Interestingly - the 
listed residual yeast viability of the latter was 3.8, 16.3, 2.5
and 2.0%.

The listed pasteurization schedule is "short time heating".
I don't know the exakt temps and timings - maybe one of the lurkers
from Weihenstephan or VLB Berlin can join in here ... was ist los,
meine Damen und Herren?

SPEISE / KRAEUSEN:

42% knock out wort
8% first runnings
23% lager kraeusen
7% mixture ale (wheat) / lager - kraeusen

YEAST ADDITION FOR CONDITIONING:

*** 40% none ***
[Conditioning is done with the main fermentation strain]
7% ale (wheat)
25% lager (mainly kraeusen, see above)
7% mixture of both (mixed kraeusen, see above)

CONDITIONING:

75% bottle
25% tank
The top scored brews all were bottle conditioned!

YEAST COUNT IN FINAL BEER:
(just to give an idea of the broad range)
0.1 - 40 Mio. cells / ml

Due to an inquiry of the German Brewers Association, recommendations 
were given by Weihenstephan's professors as follows:

Substyle              : minimum yeast count
- ----------------------:--------------------
Hefe Weissbier        :  1 Mio / ml
Hefetruebes Weissbier : 10 Mio / ml


Hope this helps to clear things a bit.

CHEERS &
sehr zum Wohle!

Hubert, brewing wheat in Salzburg, Austria


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Date: Thu, 09 Apr 1998 19:49:42 +0100
From: "Dr. Pivo" <irv at wireworks.se>
Subject: (longish) Oxidation and yeast (was Budweiser's "born on "etc.)(longish) Oxidation and yeast (was Budweiser's "born on "etc 

I sent some thoughts under the above title to rec.crafts.brewing.
I don't think I need to waste space in two places.

Dr. Pivo


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Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 13:45:44 -0400
From: greg_young at saunderscollege.com
Subject: Bacterial Worries


Howdy-do. First, thanks to all who responded to my split batch/boil
querry....I was surprised to see how many of us are using this method. I'll
give it a shot.

And now on to my next question: I've talked to lots of brewers--home and
brewpub--about the brewing of lambics. The response I usually get is along
the lines of "sure, go ahead and brew a lambic, as long as you brew it at
someone else's house with someone else's equipment." This sounds extreme,
but the reason for the fear is because apparently the bacterial strains
used aren't so easy to banish once you let them loose, resulting in many
batches of sour beer. My question is, should the same concerns be heeded
when performing a sour mash? Basically I'm wondering if encouraging a
bacterial element into the wort is all together risky to your eqipment's
'sterility', or is this concern specific to the B. bruxellensis et. al. in
lambic cultures.

Cheers-

Greg Young
Philly, PA




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---