---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com


Contents:
  Sam Smith's Clear Bottles ("Karp's Homebrew Shop - Alan")
  Phil's Counter Pressure filler (Stephen Cavan)
  Belgian Wit Spices ("Layne and Katrise")
  Haafbrau1: Warming chilled kegs (haafbrau1)
  Any must sees in/around Lancaster, UK? (Dan Cole)
  fermentap - other uses (Mark Tumarkin)
  Big Brew Big BW / Extract Wit (KennyEddy)
  Planispiral chiller data point ("Michael J.Maag")
  FWH (eaweston)
  1998 Land of the Muddy Waters Homebrew Competition Announcement/Call for Judges ("Tim M. Dugan")
  Gott vs. Igloo coolers, Part II ("Jim Hodge")
  RE: Co2 Detectors (Jeff Grey)
  Re: CO2 gas detectors ("Christopher Tkach")
  Brewpub (Ryan & Shelly Furstenau)
  starters/wort aeration/yeast (John_E_Schnupp)
  Big Brew Questions ("Rob Moline")
  Buying Wyeast in London ("Richard Lehrl")
  Chlorine Dioxide ("David R. Burley")
  time weighs heavy ("Ray Estrella")
  hop bags ("Ray Estrella")
  Big 12 Barleywine (Fred Johnson)
  Re: Cardboardy Belgian Pale Ales (Jim Wallace)
  ClO2/CO2 (AJ)
  RE:Extract Wit (Kit Anderson)
  Fridge (OCaball299)
  Oktoberfest (OCaball299)
  Gott cooler (John_E_Schnupp)
  score sheets (michael rose)




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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 00:22:15 -0400
From: "Karp's Homebrew Shop - Alan" <AlanT at homebrewshop.com>
Subject: Sam Smith's Clear Bottles

From: Adam Holmes <adamholm at holly.ColoState.EDU>
Subject: Sam Smith clear bottles

>>>  "So why does the famous Samual Smith Brewery put most of their beer
in clear bottles.  "

According to the folks at Merchant Du Vin, importers of this fine beer--
the clear bottles were a marketing choice. They feel that the foil band
around the neck and the tall sides of the 6 pack holders prevent the light
from affecting the beer. Some mention of the fact that the beer itself is
very dark would also help reduce skunking was made. [ I find that idea
preposterous]

Note:
These comments are as best as I can remember a personal phone conversation
of about one year ago. I asked the same question Adam asked.







- ------
Best Brewing,
Alan Talman
Karp's Homebrew Shop <http://www.homebrewshop.com>
2 Larkfield Road
East Northport, NY 11731
Phone : 516-261-1235
Fax : 516-261-1573


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Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 23:03:36 -0600 (CST)
From: Stephen Cavan <cavanst at duke.usask.ca>
Subject: Phil's Counter Pressure filler

Someone asked recently about the counter pressure filler made by
Listermann, the Phil's series. I tried one Friday night and have two
comments. Although I have never used a counter pressure filler before, and
was expecting a complex procedure, it was very easy to use. I could almost
work the unit with one hand. The single valve idea seems good to me. The
directions were clear, and it took me maybe 10 minutes to connect the
hoses and keg disconnects.

The only problem I had concerned the type of bottle I could fill. I had
prepared some 2 litre soda bottles, but the rubber bung on the filler was
too small. I then grabbed some regular PET beer bottles (12oz size), and
again the rubber bung was too small for the bottle opening. Finally I was
able to use my Grolsch style bottles, and I was lucky to have a few cases
of them. 

On the whole, I am really happy with the filler.
Cheers, Steve



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Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 22:02:23 -0700
From: "Layne and Katrise" <wetpetz at oberon.ark.com>
Subject: Belgian Wit Spices

David Rinker writes in HBD #2623 on Belgian wit;

>5)There has always been reported to be a 3rd spice in both Celis and
Hoegaarden, one which no one can identify (Jackson speculated once that it
might be cumin)--might want to experiment here too.

Experimenting is the key here....
    I recently bought a copy of "The Brewmasters Bible", The Gold Standard
for Home Brewers by Steven Snyder, 1997.  Within are several good looking
recipes for Wit beers or White Beers in this style.  I though it was
interesting to note some of the spices that are used in these beers, of
course they included the orange, coriander that is a must have I think.
Cumin was not one of the spices added to this collection of recipes but
cardamom and chamomile was.
    There seems to be a really big variation of the amounts of spices used
in a batch as well as the timing of spice additions.  They range from 1/4
oz. at 30 minutes or 60 minutes for example, to 1 ounce steeped and then
again in the secondary.  I would say that a lot of experimentation is needed
if we want to get the right profile for our OWN tastes.  Just my two cents.
    I've used spices in beers a few times now and I think that the timing of
spice additions is almost as important as which spices to use.  There is no
sense adding a spice if you don't add it at the right time because you might
not even know it is there!  Orange does benefit from a boil, (although
short, 5-10 minutes?).  Freshly crushed Coriander does not need to be boiled
at all as it is very aromatic.  If the spice you are using has a powerful
aroma and flavor don't boil.  If you can hardly smell it then chances are
that boiling will bring out the flavors.  This is the rule-of-thumb I've
used and I get good results.  (Just getting close to my expectations is a
good result for me.)
    I recently helped out a friend with a Vanilla-Almond Porter and we tried
it for the first time yesterday.  The recipe was changed many times in the
interim on the amounts and timing of the spices used because there is so
much variance and so many opinions on how they flavor the brew in the
numerous methods that are used.  Finally my friend decided to go with his
gut instinct and I think that he couldn't have made a better beer.  Although
we both agreed that it would be interesting to try changing things around to
see the effects it would have on the recipe.  The beer was awesome by the
way.  It had orange and lemon zest in the boil, vanilla beans were steeped,
vanilla and almond extracts were used at bottling.  There was oats in the
mash with 2-row and roasted malts.  The beer was smooth, creamy and full of
blended flavors.

Layne & Katrise Rossi
wetpetz at oberon.ark.com
Campbell River, BC
***********************************************************
To try and fail is better than
failing because we didn't try!
***********************************************************




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Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 08:06:31 -0400
From: haafbrau1 at juno.com
Subject: Haafbrau1: Warming chilled kegs

I either didn't get an answer, or I missed it, so I'm re-posting.  This
should be easy for Al K, Jethro, George, etc...
For some reason, I have a glut of spiced ale.  I have a 3 gal keg, and
several 1/2 gal bottles with carbonators attached. ( I needed the 5 gal
keg it was originally in.) All of this beer has been in the fridge for
some time, but I want to put one of my other kegs in to drink.  Can I
remove the keg from the fridge for a week or three, without causing off
flavors? 
Relax, Have a Homebrew, but keep an eye on your legislators!
Paul Haaf  Somewhere in the Pinelands of So. Jersey
haafbrau1 at juno.com
- --------- End forwarded message ----------

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]



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Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 08:08:24 -0400
From: Dan Cole <dcole at roanoke.infi.net>
Subject: Any must sees in/around Lancaster, UK?

My girlfriend and I are heading to Lancaster, UK in the middle of July
(she's going to present at an academic conference, and I am going to tag
along) and I am wondering if any UK'ers or well travelled others may have
some recommendations for "gotta see" beer-related sites in that area. We
also plan a day trip just into Scotland so any recommendation for that area
would be appreciated. 

Thanks,
Dan Cole
Roanoke, VA



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Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 08:26:32 -0400
From: Mark Tumarkin <tumarkin at mindspring.com>
Subject: fermentap - other uses


Tony writes:
>Hi , I'v been thinking about purchasing a product called Fermentap,  it
>holds a fermenting carboy in a inverted postion and is supposed to
>facilitate Yeast harvesting and allows you to transfer wort without a
>siphon.  I would appreciate anyones comments on this product. 

Well, I won one of these devices at a homebrew club raffle. I had
previously thought about buying one, so I was very pleased. However, after
using it a few times I was not as pleased. It does work but I quess not up
to my expectations. One of the ovbious attractions is the idea of
harvesting and/or removing yeast. It just doesn't work as well as I'd
hoped. Maybe oneday I'll have one of those beautiful stainless of copper
cylindro-conical fermenters that shine so prettily in the brewery of my
dreams. 

However, I came up with one alternative use of part of the device. It comes
with a base to hold your inverted carboy. This base consists of a large
ring at the bottom, and a smaller ring at the top - separated and held by
steel rods. I use this base to hold my inverted carboy as it drip/air drys
after cleaning with sanitising solution. This works great, the carboy
opening is down, reducing fears of any nasties settling into it as it
dries. And it is held securely, reducing fears of breakage.

You could, of course, make a similar device, much less expensively, by
cutting a hole of appropriate size into a small piece of plywood and
setting this over a box, plastic milk crate, or some other base to make a
stand. Works great.

Mark Tumarkin
G-ville, FL


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Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 11:27:15 EDT
From: KennyEddy <KennyEddy at aol.com>
Subject: Big Brew Big BW / Extract Wit

AlK wrote concerning Barleywine yeast for the Big Brew:

"I have had very good experiences with the Danstar Nottingham and
Windsor yeasts.  The Nottingham is slightly more attenuative.
The Windsor slightly more sulphury during fermentation and is
a little more "tart."  If I do go with dry yeast, I'll probably
go with the Nottingham.

However, what I will probably do is brew a 5-gallon batch of
Special Bitter from liquid yeast the week before the BIG BREW.
I will bring unpitched wort back home from the event and then,
after racking the Bitter off to a keg, split the dregs between
the Barleywine wort carboys."

I made a BW last November and did almost exactly this, except I used the
Nottingham dry yeast for the small-beer "starter" batch (an Amber Ale).
Fermentation of the BW was much like any other in onset and duration.  My BW
went from 1.092 to 1.017 without additional Champagne yeast.  The BW already
tastes pretty good so I would agree that the Nottingham is a fine choice for
this baby -- plus it allows you to pitch big without hassling with a starter
(use at least two packets and follow the rehydration procedure on the
packet...see http://www.lallemand.com for more info).

*****

Kit Anderson had an interesting idea for brewing an extract Wit:

"I was having an off list discussion about an extract based wit. 
"Impossible", says I. "Nobody make unmalted wheat extract."
Then a little voice said, "King Arthur does."
Egads! Plain old white flour. Of course! 
Has anyone tried adding wheat flour to the kettle?

I'm thinking 50% extra light DME, 50% wheat extract and 1/4 cup (or
more?) of flour."

Clever thought, but I wonder if it's really what you want.  Raw (unmalted at
least) wheat is used in Wit recipes but don't forget that it is *mashed* with
other grains (pilsner malt), so its starch is largely converted to sugar.
Adding flour to your recipe will result in starch haze and will be a potential
source of infection (bottles that go kaboom).  So why not use wheat malt?
Supposedly there's a flavor difference between malted and unmalted wheat;
besides, it ain't "right".  But so what.  I think using wheat *malt* extract
would make a perfectly acceptable extract wit.  Use your 50-50 recipe above,
or look for "weissen extract" containing somewhere near 50/50 wheat and
pilsner malt, and use that for 100% of your fermentables.  Once you're there,
the rest is easy and I guarantee the result will be witty enough.  Save the
flour for bread.

BTW see the excellent extract refernce web page at
http://triton.cms.udel.edu/~oliver/firststate/tips/maltextract.html for a good
look at the composition of many extracts.  Seems most "wheat extract" is still
~60/40 wheat/barley.  Ireks' Weizenbier is stated to be 100% wheat malt;
Munton & Fison comes in closest to 50/50 at 55% wheat.

*****
Ken Schwartz
El Paso, TX
KennyEddy at aol.com
http://members.aol.com/kennyeddy


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Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 11:38:11 -0400
From: "Michael J.Maag" <maagm at rica.net>
Subject: Planispiral chiller data point

I needed a chiller so I checked the HBD archives and decided on a
planispiral design (like an electric stove burner).  I used 3/8 in.  soft
copper, which was mostly in a spiral flat coil already.  I used a 14 inch
long piece of 1/2 in. copper pipe to secure the coil to using stripped 12
gauge wire.  I used 28 ft of the 3/8 in. soft copper.  The design worked
better than I hoped for.  I suspend the thing in the brew pot for the last
15 min of the boil to sanitize.  It took only 15 min to cool 5 gals of
boiling wort to 70 degrees using tapwater!! I was impressed.  The thing was
placed flat about one inch below the surface of the wort.  The temperature
gradients created a flow which piled the hops in the center of the pot as
bonus, and there was no need to move the chiller around to make it
effective.  Needless to say, I had great cold break.  8*)
Mike Maag, Chilling out in the middle of the Shenandoah Valley.










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Date: 	Sat, 11 Apr 1998 14:25:03 -0400 (EDT)
From: <eaweston at email.unc.edu>
Subject: FWH

As another data point, I would like to concur with Al Ks observation that
FWH is especially (if not solely) beneficial to hop *flavor*.  I just
reviewed my tasting notes for those batches of mine which received
FWHing--all (except for those which received dry hopping too) had a
pronounced hop flavor.  Furthermore, those which were hopped solely w/ FWH
(or had only kettle hops added) had little to no perceptible hop
aroma--this included my first FWH beer, a Bavarian Wheat which ended up
with waaaayyyy too much Saaz in the finish (way out of spec for the style
but amazing none the less--I used only 1oz of hops in this 6gal batch! )

Regards,

David Rinker




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Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 15:54:47 -0500
From: "Tim M. Dugan" <tdugan at netins.net>
Subject: 1998 Land of the Muddy Waters Homebrew Competition Announcement/Call for Judges

1998 Land of the Muddy Waters Homebrew Competition

Imagine this: you have been brewing five-gallon batches of beer at home for 
a few years. You have made countless mistakes, and attempted to brew many 
different styles of beer to improve your brewing skills. Then one day you 
enter a competition and, much to your surprise, you win. Then you name your 
creation and help brew 250 gallons for the drinking public to quaff.  This 
is your chance!

MUGZ Homebrew Club will be holding its fourth annual homebrew competition 
on April 25, 1998. The competition is an AHA sanctioned homebrew 
competition, and entries in the 24 AHA recognized beer styles will be 
judged (no mead, cider or sake).  If your beer is chosen as best of show, 
then you will be given the opportunity to brew your beer at the Blue Cat 
Brew Pub (http://www.bluecatbrewpub.com) with head-brewer Dave Clevand.

Entries for the competition must arrive no later than 5 p.m. April 24, 1998 
at:
	Koski Home Brew Fixen's
	1415 5th Ave.
	Moline, IL  61265

An entry form and bottle form can be found on our web page listed below. 
 If you do not have web access, we are using the standard AHA's forms, so 
just find one and copy it.  If all else fails call the number below and the 
forms can be mailed out.

The entry fee is $5 per entry; an entry fee is required for the first three 
entries, after that, entries are free.  In other words, EACH brewer can 
enter an unlimited number of beers for $15.

MUGZ will announce the winners at an award ceremony after the competition 
at Front Street Brewery, 208 East River Drive, Davenport, IA.  Winners 
unable to attend the award ceremony will have their award mailed to them.

We could still use some more judges for the event.  If you are interested 
in judging please contact MUGZ and the numbers/addresses below.  We hope to 
get the judging started at about 11:00 a.m. on the 25th.  Dinner will be 
provided to the judges after the best of show has been decided.

BOS Place	 Prize

First		Brew and name your winning recipe at the Blue Cat Brew Pub.
		Then take home two party pigs (five gallons) of your award winning brew.
		One year membership to the American Homebrewers Association.
		Certificate for free entry in the AHA National Homebrew Competition.

Second		A $75 dollar gift certificate from Koski's Homebrew Fixen's LTD

Third		A quality beer kit from Koski's Homebrew Fixen's LTD


For additional information, contact Tim Dugan at 319.388.6476 or 
tdugan at netins.net.  If you are on the web, you can visit our page at 
http://www.netins.net/showcase/tdugan/mugz.





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Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 19:10:03 -0500
From: "Jim Hodge" <jdhodge at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Gott vs. Igloo coolers, Part II

Oops!  It would appear that Gott and Igloo cooler innards are both made of
polyethylene, but Igloos use low density polyethylene and Gotts use the more
temperature resistant high density polyethylene.  I've used a Gott cooler
for two years now and while there is some buckling in the liner when it gets
hot it is not enough to interfere with my mechanical stirrer or the false
bottom I have in.  I suspect an LDPE liner would not fare nearly so well.
Sorry for spreading any misinformation.

Jim Hodge




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Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 23:36:28 -0400
From: Jeff Grey <grey at ameritech.net>
Subject: RE: Co2 Detectors

Ken,

I am assuming that you don't want to kill yourself when you use your NG
burner from the poison gas, if so you want a CO, or a carbon monoxide
detector.  Co2 stands for carbon dioxide.

Happy CO Free Brewing !

Jeff Grey


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Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 00:59:04 -0400
From: "Christopher Tkach" <tkach at tiac.net>
Subject: Re: CO2 gas detectors

With the recent discussion on CO2, and its apparent harm
to individuals, I thought that I would chime in...

Ok, I may get slammed for this, but I believe that CO2 is not
harmful to a human directly, afterall it's in the air we all breath,
along with other gases.  What you should be worried about is
the amount of oxygen (O2) in the air, which (last time I checked)
is what is required for us to live.

Back in my limited career as a geo-environmental engineer,
I took a HAZMAT class, and in that class we used an instrument
that measured the amount of oxygen in the air...too high a level and
an alarm would sound (explosive danger), too low a level and an
alarm would sound (suffocation).  It was meant for entering
confined spaces.  I think, but don't quote me on this, that the
average amount of O2 in air should be around 13-17%, the rest
is mainly nitrogen (N2), with other gases taking up about 1%.

So, the real danger with CO2 is if its increase in concentration is
effecting the concentration of O2 in the air.  I know it sounds a bit
confusing, but I'm sure some others on the hbd could explain it a
bit better than I did.

 - Chris
Newmarket, NH



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Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 00:09:24 -0500
From: Ryan & Shelly Furstenau <huskers at fgi.net>
Subject: Brewpub

Hello!  I am very interested in starting my own brewpub and I am looking for
others who know about undertaking such a business venture.  I would
appreciate any conveyance of resources that would be useful in my efforts to
establish a brewpub.  Also, I am very interested in talking to owners and
operators of brewpubs to get their input and wisdom.  Any private reply to
this message would be great.

Ryan Furstenau



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Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 22:29:27 -0700
From: John_E_Schnupp at amat.com
Subject: starters/wort aeration/yeast

I've some questions and thoughts on starters/wort aeration/yeast.

When people talk about pitching a one quart starter, do they mean
that they have one quart of yeast slurry?  Or does that include
the spent starter wort?  My most recent starter was approx.
900 ml of starter wort, 1 Wyeast smack pack and continuous
stirring while pumping filtered air into the headspace in the
flask.  I pitched the whole works into a 5 gallon batch.  The
fermentation seemed to start faster than with starters made
previously using an airlock on the flask.

The batch of beer had quite an active fermentation.  I noticed
quite a bit of "stuff" in the blow-off jug.  It looked and smelled
like yeast and since I used an ale yeast, top fermenting, I
assume it is indeed yeast.  Can this yeast be harvested or
re-pitched?

As far a aerating wort, I recently built something that I will test
the next batch.  I had an old grill/fireplace lighter that got
broken.  The tip where the butane came out was brass and the opening
was pinhole sized.  Hmm,  I drilled a hole in the end of my copper
tube that goes from the boil pot to the carboy and soldered the
tip in place.  I have some 1/8"OD (1/16"ID) tubing that fit nicely
onto the small brass tip.  Used a hose barb adapter to join to my
filtered aquarium pump.  Dry run with water worked great.  Using
something like this I'd think it would be better to pitch the
yeast first, so that they can get down to business using that
freshly aerated wort sooner, correct?

TIA,

John Schnupp, N3CNL
Colchester, VT
95 XLH 1200




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Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 01:31:09 -0500
From: "Rob Moline" <brewer at ames.net>
Subject: Big Brew Questions

Big Brew Questions..
    I have received a number of questions about the brew, the selection of
malts, hops, etc....
    The question of discrepancies between the recipe that Brian Rezac posted
and the one I posted....I am sure that this is the result of mistakes made
by myself in transcribing the info to the AHA. I know that Brian has posted
that he had my permission to 'genericize' the recipe. This was done in order
to ensure that all homebrewers would have access to similar ingredients, no
matter what malts were in stock  at  their local HB shop. That is, it was an
'inclusionary' device to promote access to as many brewers as possible.
    One of the details of the original brew.  As a self described 'seat of
the pant's' brewer, I cranked out the original recipe on a sheet of paper,
and quite frankly my hop rate wasn't even adjusted for gravity, just based
on the amount of malts involved, and my knowledge of the LABCO system's past
perfomance with other brews....and current style guidelines....
    I then made a call to Steve Zimmerman, my first assistant brewer  at 
LABCO, who had left the job for the simple reason that he was unable to
support his family on 8K$ per year, the max salary paid for his position.
    Yup, dedication goes a long way, but the final straw for him was when
the
GM, who had promised me a certain wage for an assistant prior to hiring
Steve, and subsequently re-affirmed to me that said level of income, (.25
cents per hour more) would be on the next paycheck, reneged on that
commitment.  I believe the terms were, as told to Steve directly, "What
makes you think you are worth 25 cents more an hour?"
    Who could blame him when he left after about 6 months? Not I.
    But Steve was always more technical than I in his approach to brewing,
so I called him with my proposed recipe, and over the course of the next few
hours and phone calls, suggested a few changes. Some were used, some not. He
also crunched the hop rate, and advised the results as presented by the
"Brewer's Calculator" program. I decided that I wanted to be dead in the
middle of the range for BW's, which  at  that time were 20-50 IBU's, so 35 was
the target.
    That I attempted a BW was based on the fact that it was the last brew of
the year that we had re-opened the LABCO, so I wanted to finish up with a
bang. The large proportion of Caramel 30 was due to an ordering error by my
malt distributor...(I got my Schreier/DWC and Briess products from Kraft
Foodservices, now known as Alliant), and this attempt offered an opportunity
to burn up a lot of excess inventory.
    The inclusion of 50 lbs DWC Pale Ale malt was the result of another
mistake on my
part.....on the morning of the brew, being short of the 700 lbs 2Row, (as I
had sold a bag to a homebrewer, and failed to note this on the inventory),
the DWC PA seemed to be the next best thing.
    Oh, yeah, one more thing, while I knew that I had a decent brew, when
all was said and done...it would never have been entered in the World Beer
Cup, nor the GABF, if not for the insistence of a few folks, like Mark
Silva, Curt Schroeder, and Andy Walsh and the members of the Northern
Suburbs Brewers of Sydney, who all had a taste of the brew before it
achieved recognition, and in the case of the Sydney brewers, even returned
score sheets!
    Silva, in particular, was adamant that I enter it, and the first to make
me think that perhaps I had something worthy here. Success with a Silver  at 
WB Cup ensured entry  at  GABF. If not for the advice of these folks, and
others, I would have never held back the few kegs that later gained
success....and believe me, when dealing with a big beer like this, months of
aging are your friends.....
    This just reinforces my long held belief that most brewers are 'too
close' to their brews to really know what they have, and what they don't
have....that is they can't always recognize the flaws in their brews,
especially those that creep in incrementally.
    It should also reinforce what I have already stated, and what has been s
tated to me by many other medal winning brewers about their own brews
 .........."I was lucky."

    And as a final note on this subject, if it had not been for for years of
trying to catch up and figure out what you guys on the HBD were talking
about............and if not for the patience of the many who have aided me
directly, (and not laughed too hard  at  my lack of savvy), and for the
countless that never knew they aided me, for I would never reveal to them
that I was still trying to understand what they were saying....there would
be no current event using my brew........

    The fact that the inaugural Big Brew has chosen to use any recipe of
mine is a testament to the fact that the HBD is a powerful resource for
educating brewers....you have been the genesis, inspiration and ongoing
encouragement to 2 Bronze Medals  at  WB Champs, 4 Silvers  at  WB Champs, 1 Gold
 at  WB Champs, a Silver  at  WB Cup, and a Gold  at  GABF...all within a 12 month
period.  Compound that with a 99/100 rating on the original Big 12 from
James Robertson's panel for the "Beer Taster's Log," and even the lurkers
out there may believe me when I say that the HBD does train brewers........
    It also doesn't escape me that I would have never gained a scholarship
to Siebel without the bedrock of training that you folks have given....

    Thanks to you, the HBD....

    I do hope that many of you will brew this beer and enjoy it as much as I
have....and more than that, see it as a testament to the combined energies
and intellect of the talent that lies within our community....

Jethro Gump

Rob Moline
Court Avenue Brewing Company,
Des Moines, Iowa.
brewer at ames.net

"The More I Know About Beer, The More I Realize I Need To Know More About
Beer!"





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Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 11:08:48 +0200
From: "Richard Lehrl" <r.lehrl at xpoint.at>
Subject: Buying Wyeast in London

Hello,

I want to buy some Wyeast during my stay in London in 2 weeks.
I found 3 homebrewshops on the net:

The Beer Shop (Pitfield Street)
Janet's Homebrew (Highams Park)
Ealing Homebrew (Mattock Lane)

Does anyone know if these shop stock Wyeast? 

Thank you, Richard
r.lehrl at xpoint.at




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Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 09:26:02 -0400
From: "David R. Burley" <Dave_Burley at compuserve.com>
Subject: Chlorine Dioxide

Brewsters:

Jim Liddil says about Dave Miller's recent faux pas in BT:

>Can any of the people who know water chemistry discuss
the letter in the
>lastest BT about aeration of water, calcium carbonate
precipitation and
>chlorine dioxide?

This is obviously a screwup ( BT editors where ARE you?)
since chlorine dioxide has nothing to do with bubbling air
into boiling water to strip CO2 during the removal of calcium
ion by boiling. In that letter, substitute "carbon" for "chlorine"
so it reads "carbon dioxide" and the letter makes sense.
I suspect that Dave, relying on others for any chemistry, as
he admits, didn't spot his obvious error in this piece.  Later
in this issue of BT he does have a legitimate discussion of
chlorine dioxide as a sanitizer, as I recall.

The point in the letter is that the bubbles of air pick up carbon
dioxide gas released by the higher temperature. This carbon
dioxide is available since the calcium carbonate/bicarbonate
equilibrium is shifted towards carbonate at the higher temperature,
releasing CO2 into the water. The air strips out the CO2 and
carries it out of the vessel being boiled. This allows the
calcium carbonate which is less soluble than  the calcium
bicarbonate to precipitate and the calcium ion content of the
water is reduced if the water is decanted off the precipitate.

Use of additions of calcium salts like calcium sulfate to
precipitate more calcium carbonate through "common ion effect",
just won't work unless the added calcium salt is more
soluble than the carbonate. In this case, the sulfate solubility
is about 2 grams/liter and the carbonate is 0.015 g/l, so this
method is effective.  Also the sulfate is 20% less soluble at
boiling temperatures than at room temperature and the calcium
ion content is further reduced.  Additions of calcium chloride
( which is faster to get into solution)  would work fine in which
the calcium would be precipitated as the carbonate and the
chloride is left in the solution.  Alternatively the use of sulfuric
acid would form calcium carbonate, calcium sulfate and
carbonic acid which would be released during the boil as CO2.

All these methods are effective and are used, depending on
the water analysis and the beer type as it regards the
remaining ions in the water. Miller gives an excellent example
of the effective use of air purging in removal of large quantities
of calcium carbonate by boiling based on his own experience
in a brewery.  I suspect this technique is much more useful
when used with large volumes of water and perhaps not even
needed by the home brewer who boils his water in five gallon
batches. I would be interested to hear reports on the
effectiveness of calcium removal by boiling with and without
air injection on small kettles. I can't do it because my water
is softened before it goes into my RO unit which I use for brewing.


Keep on brewin'


Dave Burley
Kinnelon, NJ 07405
103164.3202 at compuserve.com
Dave_Burley at compuserve.com  

Voice e-mail OK 


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Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 09:51:45 -0500
From: "Ray Estrella" <ray-estrella at email.msn.com>
Subject: time weighs heavy

  Hello to all,
and welcome to the Big Brew Digest, oh, this is the Home Brew Digest.
John says,
>Jeff Renner's answer of continued fermentation leading to lighter
>beer over time may explain my observed opposite results, to some
>extent.  My beers seem to get heavier, if anything, over time in the keg.

Funny, my beers all get lighter.  When I first keg a batch, it weighs about
45 lb.  Shortly after tapping I notice that the weight goes down, in 18 oz.
increments.  Eventually it weighs nothing, hmmm..........
Ray Estrella   Cottage Grove   MN
ray-estrella at msn.com

****** Never Relax, Constantly Worry....have a better Homebrew ******






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Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 10:35:01 -0500
From: "Ray Estrella" <ray-estrella at email.msn.com>
Subject: hop bags

  Hello to all,
Bill Giffin, as only he can, says,

>Perhaps Al's problem with the hop aroma was that the hops were
>contained in a hop bag.  I have used Saaz hops, 25g, as a first wort
>hopping, both pellet and leaf,  and the hop aroma was just wonderful
>with just the right amount of hop flavor.  Did not use a hop bag,
>never have never will.
>A hop bag is not needed or recommended in my opinion.  I doesn't
>allow the hops to be properly ustilized in the boil.
>The moral of the story.  Do it correctly and you will get good results.


  So you are saying that your opinion is the correct way, and all else
is wrong.  I use hop bags for all my additions, including 15 FWHed
brews.  Works great for me.  I get excellent results.  Of course that
is just MY opinion.  Do you have some numbers to prove that hops are
not utilized properly when placed in a bag?  Or is this just your opinion
in action again?

Ray Estrella   Cottage Grove   MN
ray-estrella at msn.com

****** Never Relax, Constantly Worry....have a better Homebrew ******







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Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 16:31:29 -0400
From: Fred Johnson <FLJohnson at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Big 12 Barleywine

I will be participating in the Big Brew '98 and read with intense
interest Rob Moline's original notes on the Big 12 Barleywine, from
which the recipe for the Big Brew was taken.  I was flabbergasted (look
that one up) when I read the 35 IBUs  in Rob's original recipe.  This
was the target and the outcome from the Siebel analysis.   I immediately
ran to  my calculator (designed with the homebrewer in mind) and came up
with 100 IBUs.  I ran it again using a strict Tinseth model and came up
with 77.  These values would be even higher if one were to correct for
utilization of pellets being higher than for whole leaf hops (which I
naively assumed).  How is it that the utilization was SO low for a 7 bbl
(217 gallon?) batch?  Or am I missing something here?

The Big Brew '98 recipe calls for 63 IBUs, still a far cry from the 35
in Rob's original recipe.  When I put the Big Brew recipe into my
calculator I get 104 IBUs (because the hopping rate appears to be scaled
down almost exactly from 217 gallons to 5 gallons.  Again using
Tinseth's formulas I get 81 IBUs.  How about an explanation Rob?
- --
Fred L. Johnson
Apex, North Carolina





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Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 19:16:14 -0500
From: Jim Wallace <jwallace at crocker.com>
Subject: Re: Cardboardy Belgian Pale Ales

 .....George_De_Piro.....asks
>     Why is it that all of the Belgian (style) Pale Ales I have tried (to 
>     date) taste very papery?
 ....... Shipping and other various probs of distributing beers are not the
kindest to them
     
>     I have had Celis pale ale, Staffe Hendrik, and most recently De 
>     Koninck.  They all tasted like paper.  I even insulted the brewer of 
>     Straffe Hendrik by asking him about this when I met him at a bar in 
 ......... had Staffe Hendrik at the brewery in Bruges just 2 wks ago and it
was excellent.. no staleing
 
>     Just last night I got a bottle of De Konick pale ale (and the Grand 
>     Cru) right from the distributor (I'm teaching a class at the Brooklyn 
>     Brewery for their sales force; the De Koninck beers are not yet 
>     licensed for sale in the US).  While the Grand Cru was quite 
>     wonderful, the pale ale was quite papery.  Another educated palate 
 ........ I am noit a great fan of DeKonick even fresh in Belg but I did try
it anyhow ... it should not be stale.. even the locals dont recomend it in
bottle over there. so it seems not to travel well.... 

>     I'm starting to think it's supposed to taste this way!  Some of you 
>     have been to Belgium (or are their now).  Are these beers papery 
>     there, too, or is it that they get air into the beer post-fermentation 
>     (which greatly reduced the shelf life)?  But what of the Celis?  I 
>     would think that should be fresh, although it seems to be tough to 
>     find...maybe the bottles I have found have been old?
 .........Cellis has changed a lot lately  recently did an A/B for Cellis
and imported Hoegarden.. the cellis did not hold up to Hoegarden and Cellis
used to be my favorite  wit(I believe Miller has entered the picture here).
Big changes at Hoegarden though.. It will be brewed in Canada in the not
too distant future if not already.

 ............ We just returned to the states and since our belgian beer
sense was fairly fresh we bought several of the examples of the belgian
beers we know here in the US. .... the results were really quite
shocking... the biggest disappointment was Rodenbach which had become our
beer control while traveling over there... it had oxidized everyway
imaginable and had none of the fresh bright character we have come to know.
(This was perhaps the first Rodenbach I have dumped)

 .........my overall impressions of the belgian beers over there as opposed
to those imported here is a sense of freshness/brightness at the source...
 . Some of the stronger beers (like Chimay) seem to age well even over here,
but the lower gravity beers seem to suffer from poor handling. we recently
opend an '87 saison de papaix from vapeur... twas fabulous.... when we
stopped to visit Jean Lois we sampled the same beer recently made... it was
also excellent (different beer though). The Lambics/Krieks seem to survive
the rough handling just fine as do the wits. 
___________________________________________
    JIM WALLACE ... jwallace at crocker.com
      http://www.crocker.com/~jwallace  
___________________________________________


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Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 19:31:04 -0400
From: AJ <ajdel at mindspring.com>
Subject: ClO2/CO2

Jim Liddil wrote:

>Can any of the people who know water chemistry discuss the letter in
the
>lastest BT about aeration of water, calcium carbonate >precipitation
and
>chlorine dioxide?

This one threw me for a loop at first too until I realized that the
references to chlorine dioxide were obviously typos and that carbon
dioxide was clearly what was meant. Other than that I agree with
Miller's corrected explanation of the mechanism with a couple of minor
exceptions one of which has to do with the necessity of aeration.
Aeration should not be necessary if the water boils. Any gas with very
low partial pressure of carbon dioxide will serve to scrub out the CO2
released by the overall reaction:

Ca++  +2HCO3-  --> CO2 + H2O + CaCO3

The steam formed by the boil should serve to do this as well as air or
nitrogen or whatever. However if steam is not available sparging with
another gas is necessary to purge the CO2 and move the equilibrium in
the above equation towards the right.




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Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 19:18:22 -0500
From: Kit Anderson <kitridge at bigfoot.com>
Subject: RE:Extract Wit

I have been getting some really interesting thoughts on
wheat flour to brew an extract wit. I am not planning on
doing this, but am trying to help out another brewer.

My first suggestion, which he will be using, was to mash 2
lbs pils and 2 lbs unmalted wheat. Then I thought of the
flour thing. A lot of folks were concerned with making wort
gravy. This can lead to stuck spigots and such. Some
mentioned infection problems from residual starch. The haze
in a wit is from protein and the starch needs to be
converted.

One person came up with the recipe out of the Belgian
Classic style book. Silk Lady uses 2.5 lbs whole wheat flour
sifted into the grains in a partial mash of 1.5 lbs pale and
1 lb wheat malt. 90 min at 150F. Iodine test and mashout at
170. Then boiled with 2 lbs pale DME and 2 lbs wheat syrup.

This sounds like the most effective way to acheive the
results. It will still lack the flavor of a full mash using
50% unmalted wheat.
- -- 

Kit Anderson			ICQ# 2242257
Bath, Maine			kitridge at bigfoot.com

		got beer?


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Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 21:10:16 EDT
From: OCaball299 <OCaball299 at aol.com>
Subject: Fridge

Dear Brewing brethren,

I've recently acquired a second-hand (possibly third-hand, it's kinda old),
Brew Fridge which I keep in the garage.  It's a Kelvinator Mod# TPK190SN2W....
I have a couple of concerns and since there a couple of refrigeration brewers
out there, I thought I would seek advise.

First, in the winter months the freezer does not freeze.
Second, it seems to "turn on" too often in these warmer days.

It appears that the thermostat is exposed to exterior temps.  Does anyone have
a clue as to where the thermostat would be exposed to outside the fridge?  Am
I off?  Is it something else?  Any ideas where I might be able to find a
schematic?  I've tried to contact the company via email without success.

Private mail is great.
TIA.

p.s. I constructed the Poor Man's Counter Pressure bottle filler described in
Ken Schwartz's web site... I wanted to publicly thank Ken for providing such
helpful and "thrifty" information for the cause.... Thanks again Ken!!!

Omar Caballero - Aurora, IL
ocaball299 at aol.com

"Live long and prosper" - Mr. Spock
 ...and have another Hombrew! 


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Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 21:10:17 EDT
From: OCaball299 <OCaball299 at aol.com>
Subject: Oktoberfest

Dear Brewing brethern:

I spoke with a friend recently who has been brewing for quite some time.  He
particularly brews Oktoberfest biers and said he uses Wyeast 1007 German Ale
yeast instead of a lager yeast.  He said in a recent competition, the judges
could not tell the difference between the lager and ale yeasts.

Anyone care to comment?

Omar Caballero - Aurora, IL
ocaball299 at aol.com

"Live long and prosper" - Mr. Spock
 ... and have another Homebrew!


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Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 18:13:27 -0700
From: John_E_Schnupp at amat.com
Subject: Gott cooler

Hopefully someone on the digest has the answer to this question.

I am looking for either a telephone number or a website for Gott coolers.
I have one at home and I need to purchase some parts for it.  Specifically,
I'm looking for the rubber washers/grommets that seal the stock spigots.
I'm setting my cooler up for a mash tun and would like to add a sight
tube.  The original hole is being used as the drain hole.  I want to punch
another hole right next to it for a sight tube.  With the stock
washers/grommets a 3/8" NPT male fitting fits very snugly and does
not leak.

TIA,

John Schnupp, N3CNL
Colchester, VT
95 XLH 1200




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Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 20:24:01 -0700
From: michael rose <mrose at ucr.campus.mci.net>
Subject: score sheets

I'm tring to improve my beer judging skills by compareing my scores
with some BJCP scores on commercial beers. Where might I look for some
reliable pre-scored sheets?  Thanks

Michael Rose  Riverside, CA   mrose at ucr.campus.mci.net


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---