---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com


Contents:
  Jethro's Bonehead Mistake! ("Rob Moline")
  Stone the Flaming Crows! Another Bonehead Error! ("Rob Moline")
  CO2 concentrations (Marc Dutro)
  Fridge (duddles)
  Grolsch bottles ("Buchanan, Robert")
  RE: Easter Bunny, SPAM (haafbrau1)
  Redhook Clone Recipies (RobertS735)
  Grolsch Bottles ("Rosenzweig,Steve")
  Re: CO2 intoxication ("Philip J Wilcox")
  Grain Transition (Paul Ward)
  Heat and  skunkiness (michael rose)
  Al vs Cu ("David R. Burley")
  Warning!!: Wyeast 1007 ("Robert D. Dittmar")
  BT/Trader Joe's/Judge Digest ("RANDY ERICKSON")
  CO2, Janitors, Homebrew stores (Headduck)
  spam, CO2 (Samuel Mize)
  Aluminum Tubing for Jockey Boxes, etc. (John Palmer)
  Re:  Jethro's Barleywine ("Brian Rezac")
  Hefeweizen benefits new mom ("Thor")
  pitching rates, Gott ("Bryan L. Gros")
  aerator/hop bags (Al Korzonas)
  RE: time weighs heavy (John Wilkinson)
  Sanke Keg Kegging System (Clint Thessen)




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Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 22:03:36 -0500
From: "Rob Moline" <brewer at ames.net>
Subject: Jethro's Bonehead Mistake!

Big Brew 98 Hops

>From: Fred Johnson <FLJohnson at worldnet.att.net>
>Subject: Big 12 Barleywine
>  I was flabbergasted (look
>that one up) when I read the 35 IBUs  in Rob's original recipe.  This
>was the target and the outcome from the Siebel analysis.

    Fred, I know you must realize that there is always an explanation for
confusing data in brewer's notes...and in the case the answer is indeed,
very simple...Jethro made a bonehead mistake again!
    As I had noted to the Digest, I cranked the numbers on paper, and had
Steve crank them on the speadsheet "Brewer's Calculator." Some years after
the fact, when I recranked the numbers for a hardcopy for Fal Allen's book
on BW's, in order to deliver it to him  at  GABF last year, the number was 63
IBU's.
    Maybe it was the 35 beers (or was it 63?) I drank before writing the
conflicting info that got me into trouble, as after I read my post in the
Digest, I did a Homer, went "DOH!," and realized my error. Of course the
range is 50 to 100 IBU's, and our target  at  that time, as is my practice
whenever I look to a new recipe to hit the middle of the range.
    The Siebel info is accurately reproduced from their report. Which brings
up another subject. When we cracked that last bottle of the original batch  at 
Siebel with some students and a few instructors, and with the lab report in
hand, I commented to one of the instructors on a statement by one of the
other instructors that (paraphrased) "hops diminish over time, even in the
package." This didn't make sense to me, for after all, where could they go?
    Lyn Kruger was equally sure that once the package was sealed, the
numbers would remain the same, even years later, though, while sensory
analysis would alter over time, for a variety of reasons....lab analysis
would remain steady.
    Any thoughts?

    Anyhoo, back to Fred's questions, beyond that fact that Jethro's been a
bonehead on this one, I can only say that while the original hop calc sheet
is no longer in my possession, the AA%'s were calculated for Fal according
to records of hop inventory AA%'s that were in stock  at  LABCO  at  that time. I
apologize to those of you who may have been disappointed by my lack of
record keeping....believe me when I say that the original hop sheet was not
the only document I lost in the move from Kansas.
    I can tell you that I am not really surprised to know that numbers on
paper and actuals from an analysis aren't close. In fact the only ones that
seem to be reasonably close are the ones from my hydrometer, (15$ from
Crosby and Baker, part of a set of 3) and the calc's Siebel made on Original
Extract.
    This brew filled the mash tun to the lip of the top mounted manway. We
couldn't have put another pound of malt in. When I called the consultant for
the previous brewers to order an airstone, and commented on it to him he
said, "It won't work, the tun won't hold it."
    Same with the amount of hop pellets.   This is the brew that taught me
to rig a set of "T's" on the inboard and outboard sides of the Heat
Exchanger, with a set of butterfly valves for all heavily hopped beers.
Invariably the H.E. would clog with trub, and rather than breaking down and
cleaning the H.E. in the middle of the chill, (as I did on the original
batch) I was now able to isolate the H.E., backflush with city H2O, and then
flush the H2O out with wort, before re-initiating the chilled wort flow to
the fermenter.

    As for my mistake, I know that Al Korzonas will be shocked to learn that
another error has been made in written communications!
    Sorry for dropping the ball on this one. ...I do know that if you follow
the recipe that Brian has posted, you will be drinking a fine brew in 4
months or so.....the only reason for my posting of more details was just
that...to give more details for those that might be curious....to be blunt,
I thought those details were such minutiae as Fermcap, Break Bright,
Yeastex, DryFine usage and the such....the hops didn't enter my mind....
sorry...
Jethro Bonehead Gump

Rob Moline
Court Avenue Brewing Company,
Des Moines, Iowa.
brewer at ames.net

"The More I Know About Beer, The More I Realize I Need To Know More About
Beer!"





Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 22:33:43 -0500
From: "Rob Moline" <brewer at ames.net>
Subject: Stone the Flaming Crows! Another Bonehead Error!

Stone the Flaming Crows! Another Bonehead Error!

    My apologies to the Eastern Suburbs Brewers of Sydney. I mistakely
attributed support and score sheets to the Northern Suburbs Brewers. While I
hear that they are a good mob, they were not the blokes intended in my error
laden message!
Jethro Bonehead Gump

Rob Moline
Court Avenue Brewing Company,
Des Moines, Iowa.
brewer at ames.net

"The More I Know About Beer, The More I Realize I Need To Know More About
Beer!"




Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 07:24:19 -0400
From: Marc Dutro <mdutro at asacomp.com>
Subject: CO2 concentrations

Okay, let's try to resolve this thread once and for all.  CO2, unlike CO
(carbon monoxide), is not really harmful to the body if released into the
atmosphere.  CO2 doesn't have a very high affinity for hemaglobin, the
oxygen carrying component of the blood, compared to oxygen.  That is why
when we breath the CO2 is released from the hemaglobin and O2 is absorbed.
On the other hand, CO has a very high affinity for hemaglobin and if
present in sufficient quantities will displace O2 in the hemaglobin,
causing asypixiation.  

CO2 is used for many different procedures in the medical field without ill
effects.  I would say unless you are stuck in a small, airtight room with a
large leaking canister, you have nothing to fear.  So don't worry, have a
homebrew. :)

Marc Dutro, RN


Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 08:02:39 -0400
From: duddles at Imbecile.kzoo.edu
Subject: Fridge

>Dear Brewing brethren,

>I've recently acquired a second-hand (possibly third-hand, it's 
>kinda old), Brew Fridge which I keep in the garage.  It's a 
>Kelvinator Mod# TPK190SN2W.... I have a couple of concerns and 
>since there a couple of refrigeration brewers out there, I thought I 
>would seek advise.

>First, in the winter months the freezer does not freeze.
>Second, it seems to "turn on" too often in these warmer days.

>It appears that the thermostat is exposed to exterior temps.  Does 
>anyone have a clue as to where the thermostat would be exposed 
>to outside the fridge?  Am I off?  Is it something else?  Any ideas 
>where I might be able to find a schematic?  I've tried to contact the 
>company via email without success.
>Omar Caballero - Aurora, IL

Hi Omar,
 You didn't mention where your refrigerator is located, but I would 
guess by your description that it is located in an unheated space. If 
this is the case, the refrigerator cabinet temperature may remain at 
or below setpoint without the compressor ever needing to run during 
winter months. 
 
 Many refrigerators don't directly control freezer temperature. 
Freezer temperature will vary, dependant on how often and how 
long the compressor must run in order to maintain refrigerator 
cabinet temperature. 
 
 Others control freezer temperature directly and the refrigerator 
cabinet temperature will vary, dependant on how often the 
compressor must run in order to maintain freezer temperature.

 Other devices such as fans, air shutters, heaters or additional 
temperature controllers may be used in frost-free models.
 
 Older refrigerators often used spun fiberglass or rock wool for 
insulation. Either type of insulation is susceptible to moisture 
problems. Water from condensation becomes trapped in the fibers, 
reducing their ability to insulate. 
 
 This may be the cause of frequent, or extended compressor run 
times during the summer months. It is also possible that the 
compressor is just nearly worn out and must run longer than normal 
to cool the cabinet.

 There are far too many different fridge models out there for me to 
know the specifics for yours, but it is usually not to difficult to trace 
the bulb location. The controller is usually directly connected to the 
knob where you adjust the cabinet (or freezer) temperature. 
Remove whatever trim or panel pieces necessary to gain access to 
the controller and follow its capillary tube from the controller to 
the sensing bulb on end. This will be where the temperature is 
sensed. 

Please Note: 
 It is not a good idea to run a refrigerator in a location where the 
ambient air temperature is lower than the temperature control 
setpoint. Liquid refrigerant will accumulate in the coolest part of the 
refrigeration system. If the coolest part of the system happens to be 
where the compressor is located, liquid refrigerant will pool in the 
compressor crankcase and dilute the lubricating oil. The crankcase 
pressure will drop rapidly when the compressor starts, causing 
the liquid refrigerant to flash into a vapor, carrying the oil with it, out 
of the compressor and into the rest of the system. This can leave 
the compressor without lubricating oil, sometimes for several 
minutes. In an extreme case, the compressor may try to compress 
a slug of liquid refrigerant and oil, which will destroy the compressor 
instantly, 

 If you must use a refrigerator in a cold ambient location a 
crankcase heater can be purchased and installed onto the 
compressor. These work by warming the compressor crankcase 
enough to keep the refrigerant inside from condensing into a liquid.

Hope this helps!

Forrest Duddles - FridgeGuy in Kalamazoo
fridge at Imbecile.kzoo.edu


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Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 08:40:44 -0400
From: "Buchanan, Robert" <RBuchanan at ChristianaCare.org>
Subject: Grolsch bottles

Dave Mundo asks 
Has anyone used Grolsch bottles for bottling?  Does the swing-top cap
allow
for sufficient carbonation?  How 'bout cleaning the swing-top?  Any and
all
tips are welcome.

I've used Grolsch bottles for years and have had no problems.
Carbonation is fine and bottling is very convenient, just prime,fill and
swing.
Depending on how old your bottles are you might consider replacing the
gaskets. If they are hard or dry, replace them.  Your local homebrew
shop should carry replacement gaskets.  If the tops are porcelain a good
soak in bleach will be sufficient for sanitizing.  PLastic will hold up
also but your repeat usage could vary.  I have not experienced any
degradetion of the plastic with bleach soakings and some of my bottles
are over 5 years.  Don't soak the gaskets, remove them and sanitize with
Iodophor or other non-chlorine sanitizer.  Good luck Dave and happy
bottling.

Bob Buchanan
Give a man a beer and he wastes an hour.
Teach a man to brew and he wastes a lifetime.



Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 08:47:35 -0400
From: haafbrau1 at juno.com
Subject: RE: Easter Bunny, SPAM

Grolsh bottles carbonate just fine.  A toothbrush or bottle brush for
cleaning works, and for sanitizing, I remove the wire hanger at the
bottle and either boil or iodaphor.  Hope this helps.

As to SPAM, $h!t happens, lay off Pat and Karl.  Considering what we pay
for this esteemed periodical, don't complain about a few isolated
incidents unless you are willing to put your own time in to make things
run perfect.  Pat and Karl are doing an excellant job, and if they
occasionally have a life outside of HBD, all the power to them.  By the
way, the same page down that works for threads and topics of no
particular interest to someone, also work on spam.

Getting back to beer, I have been told by a Penn State brewster that
letting a keg go back to room temp for awhile after chilling is not
harmful to its contents. 

Paul Haaf
haafbrau1 at juno.com

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]



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Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 09:34:15 EDT
From: RobertS735 <RobertS735 at aol.com>
Subject: Redhook Clone Recipies

Last week I posted an inquiry concerning a recipie for Redhook ESB. I received
several good answers and condense and post here for the digest. Editing is all
mine::

from Jason Henning <huskers olywa net>
"My profile sheet says it's two-row Klages and 60L crystal. Hopped with
Willamette  and Tettnang. 32 IBUs. Sorry, no ratios on grain or a  hop
schedule. For the yeast, get a bottle  of Hefe-weizen or Rye-hook, both are
unfiltered and you can
culture it up. 

Grant said: "You asked about cloning Redhook ESB.  Their yeast is, according
to them, proprietary.  They do bottle their Hefeweizen unpasteurized with the
primary yeast, so you should be able to culture from a reasonably fresh
bottle.  Wyeast 1272, American Ale II would also be a pretty good choice for a
similar yeast.  They use pale malt and 60 L crystal in the grist, about 10%
crystal if I remember rightly from a tour a couple of years ago.  Hops are
Tettnanger and Fuggles, they're coy about the timing and amounts of the
additions (or our tour guide just didn't know).  
 -Grant
Neue Des Moines Hausbrauerei
Des Moines, Washington"

and from Mary Lou. "In response to your HBD post, the brew store where I buy
my supplies has a recipe book with Redhook ESB.  
	2 oz Willamette 60 min 
	1/2 oz Tettnanger 15 min
	1/2 oz Tettnanger finish 0-2 minutes

1st choice of yeast Wyeast #1028 London
2nd choice Wyeast #1098

The ESB recipe is an extract recipe-
7-1/2 # Briess Gold

1# crystal 60L malt
2 oz black barley (roast)
1/2 # flaked wheat or barley

good luck!
marylou"

I plan to make an all-grain of this and will let you all know what the outcome
is...
Thanks again to all.
Bob
Houston
Beer worth brewing is beer worth drinking....



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Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 06:42:26 PDT
From: "Rosenzweig,Steve" <Steve_Rosenzweig at wb.xerox.com>
Subject: Grolsch Bottles

In HBD 2687 Dave Mundo wants some advice on using Grolsch bottles:

I have been using grolsch bottles, both green and brown, for several 
 years as well as the larger Fischer d'Alsace bottles (22 oz).

SOP is to clean normally as any other bottle, but first to remove the 
 wire swing tops.  Inspect the rubber gaskets and replace if they seem 
 worn or cracked - a local or mail order HB shop should be able to help 
 you out - buy a bunch - they are fairly cheap and will last for 
 several uses before you need to replace them again.  Overall they may 
 cost a bit more than overrun caps, but make a better presentation when 
 that matters.

I sanitize my bottles in the dishwasher just prior to bottling, and 
 boil the swing tops, gaskets and all for about 5 minutes, as I would 
 caps.  As I fill the bottles, I place a top on the bottle and set it 
 aside, as I would a cap - then when all are done, I go through and pop 
 the wire into place and close the top.

I've never noticed any problems with carbonation using these type bottles.  

They also are of particular use if you are saving yeast slurry from 
 batch to batch.  You can sanitize the bottle to store the yeast, and 
 bleed off any excess pressure every few days rather than attach an airlock.

Stephen in Ontario NY
SNPA clone on deck
Koelsch in Primary
Roasted Dunkel in 2ndary
PrePro Lager in 2ndary
Pils on tap^H^H^H^H^H^H killed . . . sniff . . . .


Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 09:56:40 -0400
From: "Philip J Wilcox"<pjwilcox at cmsenergy.com>
Subject: Re: CO2 intoxication





From: Philip J Wilcox at CMS on 04/14/98 09:56 AM

In HBD 2687 Brad Johnson writes about:"You could replicate the
experience to a small degree by taking a full breath from an actively
fermenting carboy - but I wouldn't recommend it."

I recently experienced this effect. For all of you kegging folks out there
its quite easy. Most of us when we initially tap a keg do so with a pitcher
to remove all the yeast gunk in the first pint or so. Mine is also usually
overcarbonated also. After letting the head settle to where I thought I
could keep the suds off my face I took a swig out of the side of the
pitcher. In doing so, I raised the pitcher to my lips, tilted and took a
breath through my nose. Bad Move! I got no O2, I gagged, sloshed foam in my
face and beer down my front and had to endure my friends hilarious laughter
behind me. "You could replicate the experience ...but I wouldn't recommend
it."

Phil Wilcox
Poison Frog Home Brewery
Prison City Brewers

"I Love my new 2-tier system, except for that gonging noise it make when my
wife hits it with the Volkswagen!"-- ala Pat Babcock.




Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 10:30:26 -0400 (EDT)
From: Paul Ward <paulw at doc.state.vt.us>
Subject: Grain Transition

After a couple of years quite happily brewing from extracts (and
learning all I could), I experimented with partial-mash breing this
past weekend for teh first time.

A friend gave me a square sided four gallon HDPE container and lid
that sliced apples (for pie filling) had been shipped in.  Obviously
food grade.  I used a spade bit to bore a hole through one side and
mounted the spigot from my bottling bucket there.  The hole was
probably 1/2" too high, but close enough for experimental stuff.  I
then bought a plastic thingy that's supposed to mend garden hoses,
female threaded to fit an outside spigot - threads matched perfectly
to my spigot.  I soaked this connector in VERY hos (but not boiling)
water - no oil slicks, aromas or tastes leached out.  The adapter
cost about $1.50 U.S.  I bought this at Wal-Mart, along with a
stainless kitchen 'splatter screen' which cost $2.98 U.S. and a
stainless hose clamp for about half a buck.  My total investment to
make an ezmasher was under five dollars.

I bought 5 pounds of generic 'pale ale' malt and crushed it along
with 8 oz. of 40L crystal and 4 oz. black patent (which looks much
more like chocolate than bp).  I figured this to be a pretty good
grist to try this mashing stuff.  I put 6 qts of 'hot' water in my
tun and added the grain.  Water wasn't hot enough and the mash
stabilized at 140 F.  I wrapped a large towel around the tun while a
brought 2 gallons of water to a boil.  The mash stayed at 140F for
about 15 minutes.  I added the boiling water a little at a time until
the average temp was around 156F (about another 5 qts of water -
rather thin mash).  I recovered the tun with the towel and let it
rest for an hour. 

Not being one to follow established procedure before changing
variables, I decided to try something I hadn't heard of before
(probably for good reason).  I put about 2 gallons of water on the
stove on the 'low' setting.  I rested my large strainer in the water
and added 4 oz. crushed bp, and raised the temp to 150F, where I held
it for 1/2 hour.  I have no idea what my water profile is, and no
papers or equipment to test my PH, but I figured it wouldn't hurt
anything to acidify my sparge water this way, and the bp steep wasn't
different from what I had been doing with specialy grains in the
past, so what the heck.  I removed the gains and raised the temp to 
exactly 170F when I began sparging.

After the 1 hour mash, the temp in my tun was still at 150F - 152F,
so I figured I was golden.  No iodine to test conversion, but pale
ale malt at this temp for this time should be O.K.  My ezmasher
worked like a charm.  There was nothing to recirculate, my first wort
was crystal clear, and it remained that way for the entire sparge
(which didn't use all my sparge water).  My limiting factor was my
kettle size, so I collected 12 quarts of really clear wort.  The
Specific Gravity of this wort was 1.042.

I then added 3.3 lbs. of liquid malt extract and went on from there
like I had in the past.

Man, this process was slick!  Aside from undershooting my original
temperature, everything went just the way it was supposed to.  Great
clear runoff, no stuck sparge, temperatures held ideally.  Just lucky
my first time out, I guess.

A couple of questions:

1)  Just how stupid was it to steep some black patent to acidify my
    sparge?  Was there enough grain to really make a PH difference?

2)  Why is 170F better for sparging than lower temperatures (say 160F
    or 150F)?  I understand about higher temperatures & starch.

3)  Not that it matters at this stage in my learning curve, but how
    would I figure extraction rates from the given date (6 lbs. assorted
    grains yielding 12 quarts at 1.042 S.G.)?

Now I'm looking at my bottling bucket, the same setup, only a larger
volume.  I know I could easily put 12 pounds or so of grain in there
with the same ezmasher device and do all grain when I'm ready.

Pretty slick, so far.

Paul in Vermont
paulw at doc.state.vt.us


- -- 
According to government height/weight charts,
I'm seven and a half feet tall.


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Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 07:55:42 -0700
From: michael rose <mrose at ucr.campus.mci.net>
Subject: Heat and  skunkiness

Alan Edwards writes about Sam Smith clear bottles,

>I even bought my last 6 pack of Nut-Brown at a Trader Joes by unboxing
>one of their sealed boxes myself, figuring that the light didn't get a
>chance to ruin the beer.  But it was still slightly skunky also.  I >guess
>it could have happened on the way home; but I've heard that *heat*
>(poor shipping conditions) will also do this to a beer. 

At Bud school (I'm ashamed to type that) they keep their beer at 100 F
for 2 weeks in order to skunk it for the demonstrations.

Michael Rose    Riverside, CA     mrose at ucr.campus.mci.net


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Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 10:55:49 -0400
From: "David R. Burley" <Dave_Burley at compuserve.com>
Subject: Al vs Cu

Brewsters:

Dana Edgell asks about the use of aluminum in place of
copper tubing.

Some basic comments:

Copper metal is not soluble in acids, aluminum metal is
very soluble in acids.   Copper dissolves by a corrosion
process in which the copper must be oxidized in some
fashion ( say ferrous ion or oxygen and water).  Aluminum
is protected by an oxide layer which allows it to be fairly
resistant to acidic solutions, but to suffer in contact with
strongly alkaline solutions.  Copper is a better conductor
than aluminum and both are much better than stainless steel.
The most important thing you can do to prevent excessive
dissolution of either metal is to keep them separate from
other metals to prevent a battery effect in an electrolyte
like wort.  However, the short contact time for cooling
( 15 min to 30 minutes) and if you wash the tubing well
and keep it dry, you should not have a significant problem
with either metal.

I know copper in excess can produce a haze by reacting
with components in the wort and eventually, I guess, if the
haze goes away the copper is removed.  I do not know
about aluminum ions at the pH of beer, but in water treating
they are useful  as flocculants, since these hydrated aluminum
oxides/hydorxides carry down other solid components in the
water to clarify it. As the pH drops these are soluble and not
effective at pH's below 5 or so, as I recall, so I expect the
aluminum ions to stay in solution. In excess they would
be bitter tasting as anyone who has tasted alum knows.
( Although the sulfate may also play a part in the bitterness) 


A small amount of copper is needed for yeast metabolism,
but excessive amounts can be harmful. Aluminum is of
no consequence to yeast as far as I know.

I have used copper tubing for years for cooling and find it
to work well. Breweries historically used copper and brass,
but there is apparently some regulation floating around
( or about to or was and is gone) to replace valves and
such which imparted too high a copper content to the wort.
Whether or not this was a marketing ploy by the SS valve
makers I don't know, but it didn't seem to be a high priority.

In summary, I'd use copper for this service, but I doubt if
you'd regret aluminum if it has some other advantage to you.
- ----------------------------------------
Congratulations to Andy Walsh for a great article in BT on
mis-identification in the US and Australia of "noble" hops
and thanks  for giving HBDers a "heads up" on the subject some
months ago.

A similar problem with mis-identification infects the grape
world also and many vines in the US have been incorrectly
labelled in the past.  Also, often the origin of the grapes
( and perhaps the hops) has many clones in the same fields
which often build complexity.

In the  US and Australia, often a single clone exists in the field
since it was selected for things like productivity, etc.and offers
less of a complexity and more of a sensitivity to external forces
like disease and weather. Perhaps the severity of the current
mildew problem in the hops growing areas in the US is a
result of such a monoclone practice.

Keep on brewin'


Dave Burley
Kinnelon, NJ 07405
103164.3202 at compuserve.com
Dave_Burley at compuserve.com  

Voice e-mail OK 


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Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 11:10:03 -0500
From: "Robert D. Dittmar" <Robert.D.Dittmar at stls.frb.org>
Subject: Warning!!: Wyeast 1007

     I was interested to see mention of Wyeast 1007 in today's (April 14) 
     HBD as a suggestion for use in brewing a pseudo-Octoberfest beer.  
     Although I have never tried to brew pseudo-lagers with it, I have had 
     some very recent experience with this strain.
     
     I just brewed my inaugural batch at my new home on Sunday and pitched 
     a pint of 1007 starter into a medium-to-low gravity wort.  (It's going 
     to end up a Strawberry Wheat).  This is the first time I have used 
     this strain.  Coming home from work Monday afternoon, I found that the 
     krausen had blown the top off my 6.5 gallon plastic primary, and had 
     overflowed the airlock.  I replaced the old cover with a clean cover 
     and clean airlock, and woke up Tuesday morning to find that once again 
     krausen had flowed up through the airlock and out the top all over the 
     lid of the primary.  I can only hope that the beast has been tamed and 
     that I won't find any further messes at home this afternoon.
     
     I certainly don't post this to discourage the use of 1007.  In fact, I 
     was actually happy to see such a vigorous fermentation after pitching 
     such a small quantity of starter.  I just wanted to caution the 
     original poster to expect some fireworks if he sets these monsters 
     loose on some high-gravity Octoberfest wort.
     
     By the way, does anyone know the pedigree of this strain?  The Wyeast 
     fact sheet doesn't give the origin of this yeast.
     
     Rob Dittmar
     St. Louis, MO


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Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 09:17:34 -0700
From: "RANDY ERICKSON" <RANDYE at mid.org>
Subject: BT/Trader Joe's/Judge Digest

Cheers to Deb Jolda of Brewing Techniques for acknowledging
recent criticisms of the magazine and for responding here with
concern, respect and class.  Not once did she disparage the
critics nor did she blame the previous editor (or some staffer, or
the dog, etc.).  I've only been reading BT for a short while, but I
really like what I see (and can't wait for my subscription to start
with the next issue).


****************************************************************************

Alan Edwards faults Sam Smith's for the use of clear glass
bottles citing his recent experience with still-boxed bottles he
bought at Trader Joe's (A chain of stores that is an odd mix of
gourmet shop/supermarket warehouse store, most of which are
in California).

They don't brag about it like they used to 10 years ago or so,
but TJ's buys a lot of close-outs and one-of-a-kind items, or just
things that they get good deals on.  Many times, they buy 10,000
cases or so, and when they're gone, they sell something else.

I have bought a lot of beer at TJ's, and much of it has been in
pretty poor condition.  Even beers that I knew to be good when
purchased elsewhere.  I have long suspected that TJ's buys
old stock, beer that's been in storage in the heat, or maybe even
beer that has been rejected by others, as dictated by price.

******************************************************************

Is it just me, or did the Judge Digest cease to exist a couple
weeks ago (right after one of Bill Giffen's posts)?

Cheers,
Randy in Modesto
Stanislaus Hoppy Cappers
http://www.jps.net/randye/


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Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 12:35:51 EDT
From: Headduck <Headduck at aol.com>
Subject: CO2, Janitors, Homebrew stores

 Kenneth Sullivan writes about CO2:

I am looking for a CO2 gas detector which will alarm if the CO2 levels become
too high.  I have a closed basement room where I will brewing, using an
electric RIMS and a NG boiling burner.<snip>
Pointers anyone??

Have you thought of getting a canary, Kenneth? ;-)

Ken also writes:
 Comeon guys, are you asleep at the wheel? What the hell is 
> the deal with
> this spam crap making it past the janitors? Hope this won't 
> be a trend.
 
Lighten up Ken.  I have been reading hbd for some time now and have seen very
little spam.  I think that the janitors are doing a helluva good job for what
must be a fairly thankless job.  Keep up the good work, guys!!

On the brewing supplies subject, I am the guy that wrote several weeks ago
raving about it being a privilege to have a local brewstore and how we should
be glad to pay a bit more to have one...  Ironically my local brewstore is
going out of business.  Not due to lack of patronage from me, I assure you.  I
am thinking of organizing a local buyer's club to take advantage of  bulk
pricing.  Have any of you tried this.  Are there wholesalers that will work
with clubs?  Any information would be helpful.
tia,
Joe Yoder
Lawrence, KS


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Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 11:30:40 -0500 (CDT)
From: Samuel Mize <smize at prime.imagin.net>
Subject: spam, CO2

Greetings,

> Comeon guys, are you asleep at the wheel? What the hell is the deal with
> this spam crap making it past the janitors? Hope this won't be a trend.

Where I come from, there's a word for a complaint like this:
"volunteering."

 - - - - -
> 3) Complain to your Congressperson and get laws passed 
> allowing users to do evil things to those who post SPAM!

Check out the CAUCE web site (http://www.cauce.org/) -- then make your
own decision, of course -- but DON'T just write asking for "something
to be done" about spam.  Some of the proposals are intrusive.  Others,
under the guise of regulating spam, would provide the spammers a legal
fig-leaf to hide behind and legitimize their theft of services.

 - - - - -
> From a medical perspective, CO2 is indeed very harmful, and even 
> life-threatening. ... Re-breathing CO2 has a 
> dramatic effect of the human body ...

<soapbox>

Now, I thought that CO2 had bad effects, and controlled respiration,
but I wasn't sure, SO I KEPT MY FAT MOUTH SHUT.  Please, when someone
asks about safety, don't say something is safe (or "probably safe")
unless you know definitely that it IS.

</soapbox>

Also, when reading advice -- ANY advice, but especially safety
advice -- watch out for comments that look like they are saying "I
know that there are no X," but really just say "I don't know of any X."

Best,
Sam Mize
 - 
Samuel Mize -- smize at imagin.net (home email) -- Team Ada
Multi-part MIME message: " ", " ", " " (hands waving)


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Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 09:50:31 -0700
From: John Palmer <jjpalmer at gte.net>
Subject: Aluminum Tubing for Jockey Boxes, etc.

Dana asked how aluminum tubing would react with finished beer in a
jockey box.

By itself, it would not be too bad.  Look at all those aluminum beer
cans.  The devil is in the details.
Aluminum is very reactive when attached to other metals. If you
connected it to any brass or stainless fittings, you would set up a
battery that would result in aluminum ions being released into the
beer.  Your beer would begin to taste metallic.  This aluminum would NOT
be a health concern, merely taste.  You get lots more aluminum out of a
Rolaids tablet comparatively.

Also, you cannot use caustic cleaners with aluminum unless the aluminum
is anodized, and it is very difficult to anodize the inside of a tube,
you have to drag an electrode along the length.  It would cost.

However, details aside, I think it would work well for intermittant use,
say, an afternoon party. Its not something that you would leave hooked
up for a week.  You would want to clean it thoroughly with hot water and
mild dish detergent between uses, but as long as you dont use any
caustics or acids, it should work fine and not cause any off-flavors.



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Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 11:24:56 -0600
From: "Brian Rezac" <brian at aob.org>
Subject: Re:  Jethro's Barleywine

Dave Draper, referring to Rob Moline's Big 12 Barley Wine, wrote:
>  It's no understatement to say that it's the best BW I have had yet.
>  Quite fitting for the Big Brew event.

Those were my thoughts exactly when we were deciding what recipe to use for
Big Brew's inaugural batch.   In addition, a good part of the decision to
feature Rob's recipe had to do with Rob, himself.  He is one of the most
pro-homebrewing professional brewers that I have ever met.  He is always
going out of his way to help homebrewers whatever way he can.

Thanks, Dave, for recognizing Rob.  And thanks, Rob, for letting the
homebrewing community have access to such a great recipe.

Brian Rezac
American Homebrewers Association
brian at aob.org        http:/beertown.org

Big Brew '98
E Pluribus (Br)Unum!  -   {From Many, One (Brew)!}




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Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 10:55:29 +0000
From: "Thor" <thor at valhallabrewing.com>
Subject: Hefeweizen benefits new mom

Here is a reprint of an article I wrote for our local brew club 
newsletter. I thought it might be of interest to the digest.
 
Hefeweizen helps nursing mom express milk

I'm sure this sounds like a belated April fools joke but its not. Just
last month my wife and I had a baby daughter. My wife had been feeling
under the weather with a cold and had a long labor (50+ hours) and
became quite dehydrated and stressed. After 5 days of drinking fluids
and taking it easy, we became concerned that her milk hadn't come in.
After consulting the doctor and nurses, we increased her drinking of
water to over a gallon a day but to no avail. 

Finally, a friend suggested that yeast can help stimulate the
production of milk. Rather than buy yeast and drink it, she suggested
a beer would do the trick. Being a homebrewer and beer enthusiasts, I
suggested a beer with a lot of yeast, say a hefeweizen should do the
trick if their was any validity to the claim. As it turns out, if
worked immediately. The best beer thus far is Widmer Hefeweizen from a
tap followed by the same in bottles followed by Pyramid Hefeweizen in
bottles. 

If you want to ask what the science behind it is, I have no real idea,
only guesses. It could be that the vitamins in the yeast are more
readably accessible to the body than the pill form. It could be
something funny with the yeast byproducts. In any case, only one
bottle of beer was necessary so don't get your hopes up of using it as
an excuse to finish off the keg after the pregnancy is over. I'm sure
that over indulgence would be equally bad for breast milk as well.

THOR

(For the original article and the rest of the newsletter, feel free 
to read it if you would like at the sig below. It appears on the 
front page and is called the Draught Notice, April 98)


- -----------------------------------------------------------
Thor's Stainless brewery  at  http://www.valhallabrewing.com/
AHA club The Draught Board Homebrew Club  at 
   http://www.valhallabrewing.com/dboard/index.htm                


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Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 11:05:10 -0700
From: "Bryan L. Gros" <gros at bigfoot.com>
Subject: pitching rates, Gott

smurman at best.com wrote in HBD#2687:
>Subject: Oregon Pale Ale experiment
>
>Just read about the Oregon Pale Ale experiment in the latest HBD, err
>BT.  One tidbit that caught my attention was the the Wild Duck brewery
>was only using a 15 minute mash time, yet still hit the same gravity
>and attenuation as the other brewers.  Keep in mind though, that this
>is a commercial brewery, and their dough-in probably takes close to 1
>hour.  They also had a 30 min. recirculation period, which was about
>twice the average of the other brewers.

One other interesting tidbit is the pitching rates listed.  One put pitched
(I think) 1 gallon of yeast in 15 bbl.  Other pubs went up to almost a 
gallon per barrel.  Big variation.

As a homebrewer, I think underpitching is a big problem.  Even working
hard on a starter, I don't seem to get anywhere near the amount of yeast
I would like to have.  Especially for lagers.

***************
jwilkins at wss.dsccc.com (John Wilkinson) wrote:
>Subject: Gott/Igloo
>
>Al K says the Igloo cooler will not stand up to mash temps but that has not
>been my experience.  I have been using one for a couple of years and have
>noticed no problem.  

I have been using a 5 gal Gott for three or four years as a hot liquor
tank.  I generally fill it up with boiling water for the sparge.  (The water
is about 185F but the time the cooler is full, and that water helps
keep the sparge 165-170 over the hour.)
I have noticed my cooler getting warped on the inside over the last
six months or so.  Still useable, but I assume one day I'll need to
replace it.  That will be okay since they now have the 7 gallon
coolers.

  - Bryan

Bryan Gros	gros at bigfoot.com
Oakland, CA
Visit the new Draught Board homebrew website:
http://www.valhallabrewing.com/~thor/dboard/index.htm



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Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 13:04:52 -0500 (CDT)
From: Al Korzonas <korz at xnet.com>
Subject: aerator/hop bags

Bob writes:
     In the July/August '93 issue of BT, Roy Paris offers a refinement of 
     the aerator setup previously presented by Dave Miller (BT, May/June 
     '93).  If anyone decides to take a look at these articles, can you 
     offer any advice or critiques?

If the refinement is the addition of a jar of hydrogen peroxide inline
between the pump and the carboy, then this *WON'T* work.  Bubbling air
(or oxygen) through a sanitising liquid does *NOT* sanitise the gas.
Any yeast, molds, bacteria or their spores that are in the air/oxygen will
simply ride up inside the bubbles out of harms way.  The gas only touches
the sanitiser *at* the wall of the bubble!

If you want to remove life from your air/oxygen (actually, only spores
will live in pure oxygen, I think) then get a 0.2 micron disk filter
(Heartland Hydroponics and Brewer's Resource have them, I know) and
put that in-line.

The inline carbon filter mentioned in BT might have some benefit... I'm not
sure.

***
I'm sure you all already know that Bill's suggestion that somehow the
hop bags I used "held back" all the aroma in the hops is absurd, but I
thought I should comment on it anyway.

I'm well aware of the decreased hop utilisation when using hop bags
(I believe that I first suggested this in HBD back around 1988 or 89) and
so I account for it in my calculations.  In my new system (see my website),
I only use hop bags for pellets because they clog the screens in my kettle.
To suggest that hop bags are not necessary or recommended for *every* brewer
and *every* brewing system is particularly narrow-minded.

I *do* recommend the use of hop bags for both pellets and whole hops
when you don't have a drain on your kettle.  It makes it much easier to
remove the hops prior to running the wort into your fermenter and is
an order of magnitude better than using a sieve to remove the hops
when pouring the cooled (or *GASP!* hot) wort into the fermenter.

Another alternative would be to allow the hops into the fermenter, but
that would increase the risk of a clogged airlock/blowoff and would
complicate the racking of the finished beer.

Al.

Al Korzonas, Palos Hills, IL
korz at xnet.com

My new website (still under construction, but up-and-running):
     http://www.brewinfo.com/brewinfo/


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Date: Tue, 14 Apr 98 13:17:22 CDT
From: jwilkins at wss.dsccc.com (John Wilkinson)
Subject: RE: time weighs heavy

Ray Estrella, the star of HBD, wrote:

>Funny, my beers all get lighter.  When I first keg a batch, it weighs about
>45 lb.  Shortly after tapping I notice that the weight goes down, in 18 oz.
>increments.  Eventually it weighs nothing, hmmm..........

I think I have noticed the same thing and the lost body ends up on my body.

John Wilkinson - Grapevine, Texas - jwilkins at wss.dsccc.com


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Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 13:44:57 -0500
From: Clint Thessen <cthessen at mdc.com>
Subject: Sanke Keg Kegging System

Hi folks,

<lurk mode off>

     I was wondering if anybody has thought seriously about
or is actually using a kegging system with sanke kegs.  I've
pondering the idea for awhile and now I can lay my hands
on some sanke kegs real cheap (legally).  What are the ins
and outs?  Any info would be greatly appreciated and
private E-Mail would be fine.  TIA

Clint Thessen
E-Mail:  clinton.a.thessen at boeing.com


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---