HOMEBREW Digest #2691 Sat 18 April 1998

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		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com

  No competition just Beer and Fun ("John S. Thomas")
  Cooler Warping (Rich Hampo)
  Re: IGLOO v. GOTT (Peter Walsh)
  Re:  Green Beer (bob_poirier)
  Death by CO2 (Al Korzonas)
  Milk Stout (Al Korzonas)
  CO2, the last word (hopefully) (John E Carsten)
  Bottle Conditioning with Lager Yeast ("Tomusiak, Mark")
  Re: Big Brew '98 - International ("Brian Rezac")
  FWH More Questions/Cold Break ("Shawn Andrews")
  Answers to dungeon brewing questions (Jim Suggs)
  Finings (Bob Gould)
  Re: False bottom problems; wort aeration; lots of cold break (John Bowerman)
  Redhook ESB Recipe (Geoff Peake)
  Judge Digest ("RANDY ERICKSON")
  Will this pump work for a RIMS system? ("Raymond Johnson")
  Doing the math.... (Chas Peterson)
  Mixing The Mash (results)
  Re: Carm's Hops (Jeff Renner)
  Overwelming response to Carm's (mine!) harshness problems (salvator)
  Two possibilities - Re: Getting VERY frustrated . . . Please help! ("Anton Verhulst")
  Primetabs (tm) ("Capt. Marc Battreall")
  Liberty!! At Last!!! ("Capt. Marc Battreall")
  cornelius kegs (JPullum127)
  Water Problems (Geoff Peake)
  Re: Harsh brew (Mark E. Lubben)
  Beta Glucanases ("Mort O'Sullivan")
  Re: Ed's RIM pump ("Raymond C. Steinhart")

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 08:48:05 -0700 From: "John S. Thomas" <jthomas at iinet.com> Subject: No competition just Beer and Fun Press Release What: Eight Annual Southern California Homebrewers Festival Where: In the 'Big Top' overlooking beautiful Lake Skinner California - east of Temecula When: May 2, 1998 - Saturday - 10AM to 7PM Speakers: Ken Grossman, founder of Sierra Nevada Brewing Co, Chico, CA Randy Mosher, noted author, speaker and builder of homebrewing equipment, Chicago, IL Activities: Taste club brews, discuss the recipes and the equipment that made them great Brewing equipment displays Music from 10AM to 6PM. Returning by popular demand the spectacular Jeff Jones Quartet and the Great Maltose Falcons Blues Band. Camping is available for those brave souls with a pioneer spirit and a yearning for the outdoors. Enjoy the fun with approximately 1200 homebrewers. Three types of food concessions will be available. Tickets: Purchase tickets from your local homebrew club or ask the local retail homebrew store. The California Homebrewers Association was formed by the incorporation of the Southern California Homebrewers Association by its 25 club members. This California corporation is a not for profit 501c(3) organization. Membership is open to all California homebrew clubs. For Fest 98 information call Terry Hale, Fest 98 Chairman and CHA President at 562-908-9434. John S. Thomas jthomas at minibrew.com California Homebrewers Association Box 1387 Temecula CA - t/f 909-676-2337- Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 11:50:15 -0400 From: rhampo at ford.com (Rich Hampo) Subject: Cooler Warping Hey Gang, Just a datapoint on Cooler Warping: I have a 5 gallon GOTT in which I have taken out the drain and replaced it with a tube thru a rubber stopper (which I remove after use for cleaning). After say 25 or 30 batches, the cooler started to warp a little. Just a few batches ago, when cleaning the cooler, I found that water had gotten inside it - that is in between the walls of the cooler. So I tilted it and managed to drain most of the water out the bung hole - since this is the only place that water can enter or exit from between the walls. The next time I used the cooler, I noticed the warping had *reduced* and the cooler is now almost back to normal shape. My theory is that the vapor pressure of the water inside the walls causes the inner wall to bulge since the outer wall is much thicker. My usual procedure is to assemble the manifold and put the tube/stopper in the bung hole, then add the hot mash. This means that any water inside the walls is cold, then after it is sealed, the mash heats it up and causes it to expand. My solution (not done yet) is to drill a few drain holes in the bottom of the outer wall to prevent water and/or pressure buildup in the future. Anyone else have this same experience? Brew on! Richard Hampo H&H Brewing Ltd. 3 miles NE of the HBD server in Lovely Livonia, MI Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 09:02:02 -0700 (PDT) From: Peter Walsh <peter at webbing.com> Subject: Re: IGLOO v. GOTT > > I know this is an old subject, but I've not seen anyone say they've > experienced a warped Gott cooler. I use a Gott 10-gallon.(I bought it at > Builders Square), and it's warped to beat hell. I have no experience with > the Igloo cooler, but if it does warp, it couldn't be worse than my Gott > Just another data point. I have an IGLOO (Orange with White top) and I have also seen IGLOO's (Yellow with Red top). In over two years of use, there is absolutly no warping whatsoever in my Orange with White top IGLOO. Perhaps there is a difference between the two models? I'm not talking about the orange and white GOTT, it is definitly an IGLOO. - ----- Peter Walsh peter at webbing.com Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 98 12:44:50 -0600 From: bob_poirier at adc.com Subject: Re: Green Beer In HBD #2684, Jason Gorman asks about making a green beer. I've got this desk-top calendar, "365 Bottles of Beer For The Year", and for Friday, April 10, '98, the featured beer was Kitami Mint Green Beer, brewed by Rogue exclusively for the Japanese market. It's supposed to have "... the aroma of chocolate-chip mint ice cream and a well-carbonated, clear, light-emerald green body." I thought this might be interesting to try to clone, so I checked out Rogue's web site (http://rogueales.com), but didn't find any mention of Kitami Beer (of course). I also didn't find any e-mail addresses I could send questions to regarding their brews. Does anyone know how to contact the Oregon Brewing Company (aka Rogue Ales Brewery) via e-mail? TIA. Bob P. bob_poirier at adc.com Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 13:10:03 -0500 (CDT) From: Al Korzonas <korz at xnet.com> Subject: Death by CO2 Ray writes: > This got started because Al K. replied to a post about CO2 cylinders, >and warned that the highest percentage of brewing fatalities are >caused by CO2. That is death for brewers, as in professionals. >Not homebrewers. And they usually die while cleaning out the giant >fermenters, without having properly flushed them out with air. >So if you stay out of your carboys, you should be safe. Indeed, I should have said *professional* brewers. I agree that it's most often caused by them climbing into tanks that are have not been properly flushed with air, but if you visit Samuel Smith's Old Brewery in Tadcaster (I've got photos on my website), you'll see a big sign on the door to the fermentation room warning the staff to run the ventilation fans before entering the room. I'm not 100% sure, but "asphyxiation" may have been mentioned on the sign. As a datapoint, I brew outdoors at this time, but my beer and CO2 tanks are all stored in the basement. My main tank is a 20-pounder. The ceiling is quite low. My rough guesstimate of the CO2% if the entire 20# tank was to vent, based upon Richard's excellent post, is perhaps 18%. You see... although the room is about 10 x 20 x 7, a good 30% of it's volume is taken up by three refrigerators, cabinets, *beer*, perhaps thirty 7-gallon HDPE sealed buckets full of malt, carboys chugging away, furniture, etc. At times, it's merely a maze of paths through the stuff. Even my brewing system (also on my website) is stored in there when not in use. I thought that the CO2% would have been much higher than 18% given that it appeared to be a relatively small space to me. Sorry that I made a bigger deal out of this than I should have. Al. Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 13:24:44 -0500 (CDT) From: Al Korzonas <korz at xnet.com> Subject: Milk Stout Dave writes: >And then >there's Milk Stout ( name no longer allowed due to truth >in packaging laws) from Britain reputed to be helpful to the >breast feeding British Mums. I believe it is still labeled "Milk Stout" and there's no problem with truth in labeling because what makes it "Milk Stout" is because milk sugar (lactose) is what is added to make it very sweet. I had a Tennent's Milk Stout about five years ago. As for breast-feeding mums, if I'm not mistaken, any stout was recommended... this *could* be because stout is higher in iron than paler beers. Anyone know why stout is higher in iron? Al. Al Korzonas, Palos Hills, IL korz at xnet.com My new website (still under construction, but up-and-running): http://www.brewinfo.com/brewinfo/ Return to table of contents
Date: 16 Apr 1998 13:38:13 -0500 From: John E Carsten <John.E.Carsten at oklaosf.state.ok.us> Subject: CO2, the last word (hopefully) It is my understanding that CO2 is heavier than air. Operating from that assumption; unless you are lying down, are knocked over by an exploding CO2 cylinder, or are a brewer less than three feet in height ... you are not likely to have any problems. Upon leaking, the CO2 should settle near the floor. My suggestion: Pour yourself a homebrew, open the windows and doors and scoop fido and any other short critters up off the floor (they should be easier to round up since they will likely be unconscious). Then go out onto the porch and have a beer while your house (and your animals) air out. Will the weekend chemists please give us a break and let us get onto other subjects? Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 12:26:02 -0700 From: "Tomusiak, Mark" <tomusiak at amgen.com> Subject: Bottle Conditioning with Lager Yeast Greetings all...I recently made two batches of beer with Wyeast's Munich Lager yeast - one is a Biere de Garde, the other a Pilsner. I recently bottled the Biere de Garde (OG 1.062), and after two weeks there seems to be very little yeast sediment in the bottles. My pilsner is in secondary and is already brilliantly clear after less than two weeks of lagering. My question is, does one need to add extra yeast at bottling to ensure proper carbonation, even with relatively short lagering times (< 6 weeks)? I never need to do this for ales (except for high OG ales), but I'm wondering if the flocculant nature of the lager yeast will necessitate re-pitching for even lower gravity beers. Any comments appreciated, Mark Tomusiak Boulder, Colorado Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 15:44:21 -0600 From: "Brian Rezac" <brian at aob.org> Subject: Re: Big Brew '98 - International Tony Barnsley, of Blackpool, Lancashire, UK, wrote: > > > What a brilliant idea, Good luck to all the brewers who will be > participating. Having looked at the starting times, I think that there > is no way I will be able to join Taking EST and adding 5 Hours makes for > a start time of 7PM allowing 6 hours for the brewing and another hour > for clean up thats 2Am in the morning. Sorry guy's you're on your own > this time. I'll be with you in spirit! First of all, Tony, thanks for the kind words. We truly wanted Big Brew '98 to be of interest to brewers all over and at all levels and we're pretty excited about it also. I'm glad to see that it's being received in the same light that we intended. As the organizer of Big Brew '98 and author of the "Rules & Regulations", let me say that our intentions in designing the "Rules" to Big Brew '98 were not to exclude any brewers. Many of the "rules", such as synchronizing the start time, were highly suggested by Guinness Media in order to qualify for just consideration for inclusion in their book. And even if everyone follows all the rules, we still have no guarantee that the record will be included in the Guinness Book of Records. With this in mind, let me suggest a compromise/solution. Participate anyway. Brew at a time that is more practical for you. The same goes for any North American brewers who may not be participating because of the start time. The AHA will gather and report ALL information on all the participating brewing sites, including sites that didn't synchronize their brewing. You will be counted. Currently, we even have 2 brewpubs and 1 BOP participating in Big Brew '98. Their batches won't be included as homebrews or for the Guinness record attempt, but they will be included in the totals for the AHA. For the "official" record attempt, we will give Guinness Media only the information on the sites that qualify (follow the "rules"). We don't want to dilute our goal of getting this event included in the Guinness Book of Records. But we don't want to exclude any brewer who is interested in participating. So, in closing, Tony, let me encourage you to participate. We would love to have you on board. Big Brew '98 E Pluribus (Br)Unum! - {From Many, One (Brew)!} Brian Rezac Administrator American Homebrewers Association 736 Pearl Street, Boulder, CO 80302 brian at aob.org http:/beertown.org Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 19:37:46 -0500 From: "Shawn Andrews" <sabrewer at fgi.net> Subject: FWH More Questions/Cold Break Hi everyone. In FWH do you add the bittering hops plus aroma/flavor, or just aroma/flavor? Is a 60 or 90 minute boil recommended? I normally do a 60 minute to avoid excessive evaporation. I also use whole hops most of the time. Should I do a 90 and damn the losses? I brew 13 gallon batches that I split with a friend, so we try to get the most out of our materials. Not that we don't put a lot of materials in, we just want to get the most out of them. I use a cajun cooker(180,000 BTU), and this thing will really boil away some wort! Advice welcomed. On another topic. I'm going to rack an APA tonight that has some very funky chunkies which are white floating around the top. In the past I always assumed this to be yeast. This time, however, I used 1056 and have never seen it behave this way. I've always known1056 to do it's thing and settle out. Anyone experienced this with recent Wyeast 1056? Is this cold break? I experience this from time to time, but normally with top fermenters that usually leave funky chunks in a layer on top of the beer. This is a new one on me for 1056 to do this. Thank you for your time. Private e-mail just fine. Brewing Sunday, so any advice on FWH is greatly appreciated. TIA, Shawn Andrews Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 19:58:31 -0400 From: Jim Suggs <suggs at pile.org> Subject: Answers to dungeon brewing questions Hey everyone Got a lot of good answers to my questions about setting up shop in my dungeon of a basement. Thanks to everyone who responded (about 13 of you!) Here's what I found out: >>1. Does that musty smell indicate a nasty infection source? Mold and/or mildew is probably the cause of the smell. Doesn't seem as if they are terribly aggressive or harmful. Only one person reported suspecting problems with it. As Kelly Jones wrote, "Remember, some of the world's best beer was (and is) brewed in old buildings with stone walls, cobwebs, and no sanitation routine." Basically, if I keep decent sanitation practices up, I'll be in good shape. >>2. What kind of temperature variations can I expect (in the basement?) Sounds like hour to hour and day to day there really isn't much temperature variation. Folks reported ranges of 50F in the dead of winter to about 70 in the summer, with an average 10-15 degree swing. This can be tempered by the positioning of a carboy relative to a heater. It's 50 degrees down there now (hasn't moved every time i've looked over the past week); looks like i'm going to be brewing some lagers, finally. >>5. Starting with distilled water, can I just add salts to get to the right mineral profile? I actually did a little reading about this on my own, and was glad to have my thoughts confirmed. The only trace cations of import seem to be copper and zinc. Malt supplies enough zinc, and probably enough copper, with copper fittings helping the latter along. Sounds like it's not anything to be concerned with. Ken Schwartz sent along a link to his brewing water calculator, which looks like a great tool (thanks Ken!) My beer's about empty, and my wife is mocking me, so I'd better get going. Thanks to everyone who answered. - ---------------------------------- Jim Suggs Brewer, Chemist, Centerfielder, Pile. suggs at pile.org http://www.mindspring.com/~jvsuggs - ---------------------------------- Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 01:08:23 -0500 From: Bob Gould <bobg at usaor.net> Subject: Finings A relative newby question: I'm in the process of making a Papazian's Cuslomachree Stout (more or less) - grain + extract clone of Murphy's Irish Stout. Its in the primary now. I stupidly forgot to add irish moss during the boil and am wondering what to use in the secondary if anything. From what I've read PolyClar and/or Gelatin could be added when racking to the secondary. Is this correct, and is it really needed considering the darkness of the stuff. I haven't really seen a good discussion of effects of haze other than aesthetics. Is there an impact on flavor if I don't use any finings? Thanks in advance. - Bob (hoping for a speedy reply because I'm drooling all over the carboy in anticipation of the first pint of the stuff) Bob Gould (BobG at usaor.net) http://www.usaor.net/users/bobg/home.html "We've heard that a million monkeys at a million keyboards could produce the Complete Works of Shakespeare; now, thanks to the Internet, we know this is not true." -Robert Wilensky Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 23:50:04 -0700 From: John Bowerman <jbowerma at kfalls.net> Subject: Re: False bottom problems; wort aeration; lots of cold break Hi all, Two comments and a question ... - ------------------ In HBD 2685 Steve Rockey wrote: > I recently started doing all grain brews. I use a converted Gott cooler > to mash my grains. In the bottom, I have a 9 inch false bottom. Each time > (3) I have brewed my sparge gets terribly stuck. Yesterday when I brewed I > checked carefully when I was cleaning out the cooler to try and get the > sparge going, and it appears that the false bottom is floating up when I > put the hot water in the Gott. The grain then gets under the false bottom > and plugs the hole. The directions I have say that I should add water to > the bottom of the Gott before putting any grain in. Can I put the grain in > first? I believe I read that putting the grain in first can cause stuck > sparges. The one time I got the flow to work, all was great, but other > than that I am stumped. Replies are appreciated. I am also a recent convert to all grain. I use a Gott and a Phils Phalse Bottom. I started adding the grains to the liquor, but now put the grain in first. I've only had a stuck sparge once (my very first time). I attribute that to too fine a setting on my local shop's corona. Since then, I've paid closer attention to the setting (they've also switched to a roller mill recently) and there haven't been any further problems. A note on the false bottom -- mine is such a snug fit I have to dissassemble the drain line and use a metal hook down through the central hole to pry it out for cleaning (one of these days I'll install a loop handle of 120 lb fishing line and some tygon tubing) so there's not much chance it's floating up. I still get some fines through the false bottom, but not enough to plug anything. - -------------------------- In HBD 2685 Bob Poirier wrote: > Also, instead of using pure oxygen, how about using an aquarium air > pump? What kind of filter do you need to use with an air pump? I'm sure the purists won't agree with this, but I've been using a filtered aquarium air pump for over a year now. I got tired of cleaning up the mess when the cork popped out while rocking my carboy. The filter is a homemade unit of brass fittings, 1/2 inch tygon tubing. some sterile cotton, and a few drops of sanitizer (it isn't one of those micropore types, but it seems to trap the big chunks and at least makes me feel better). The air stone is a stainless unit (I don't remember the brand). I aerate the wort after it's been chilled to pitching temp, but never after pitching. - ------------------------- Lastly, a question for all of you ... I get tremendous cold break, and usually lose about a half-gallon to a gallon of wort in the kettle in order to leave it behind. No amount of whirlpooling seems to concentrates it. Because loose hops plug the drain in my kettle, I use a hop bag, so the idea of using hops as a filter bed doesn't work. The break is extremely fine and short of using a sediment style filter, I haven't been able to come up with a solution. I'd appreciate any thoughts, comments, and hairballs anyone has. John Bowerman Klamath Falls, OR private e-mail ok ***************************** Anyone who wants to be a politician, should automatically be disqualified. ***************************** Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 23:55:19 -0700 From: gpeake at mail.island.net (Geoff Peake) Subject: Redhook ESB Recipe Not too long ago on the WWW bulletin board we had a fair amount of traffic regarding this brew. I emailed the redhook not long after that and received this reply which spells it out pretty plainly: "The actual grain charge is more like 94% 2-row and 6% carmel 60. However, you may find that doesn't quite convert accurately. We do a step mash with a protein rest at 50 Celsius and ramp up to 71 Celsius and ferment at about 21 degrees Celsius(I figure you can convert these). You're right on the IBU's;(35) OG is just slightly higher at 1054. The actual hops are Willamettes w/ Tettnangs on the finish. Those hops are the hefe hops. As far as yeast goes, ours is proprietary but a California Ale yeast will probably work for you. Good Luck - Jim Galiardi" Regretfully Redhook is not available in this country so I have to rely on this recipe. Hope this helps Cheers Geoff Peake Courtenay, BC, CA. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 09:19:38 -0700 From: "RANDY ERICKSON" <RANDYE at mid.org> Subject: Judge Digest Just received a message from Chuck Cox re: my JudgeNet inquiry. JudgeNet, the BJCP Judge Digest, has suffered from a server crash and is down until 5/1/98. Contrary to popular belief, Bill Giffin had nothing to do with it ;-) Cheers, Randy in Modesto Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 07:30:45 -0400 From: "Raymond Johnson" <JOHNSONR2 at state.mi.us> Subject: Will this pump work for a RIMS system? The only advice I can give is to make sure the pump can handle high temps (i.e. 212 f). If it is a magnetic pump, it may not vacuum prime of course; it requires a gravity prime to pump. I'd also suggest putting a ball valve on the outlet side of the pump to regulate the flow, that way the pump is always full of liquid and you won't run the risk of accidentally letting the pump "go dry". You really did luck out if this pump works for you. I paid top $$$ for my pump, but it was worth every penny. I use it to re-circulate during the last 15-20 min. of the mash, transfer wort to the boiling kettle (this avoids any hot-side aeration), and finally, to pump through my CF wort chiller. Every all-grain homebrewer needs one of these babies. - -- Cheers! :) Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 08:09:20 -0400 From: Chas Peterson <chasp at digex.net> Subject: Doing the math.... HBDers- Thanks to Jeff Renner who did what none of the rest of us did -- the math! To be honest, I didn't read through the recipe portion of Carms post carfully enough. Good going Jeff! Chas Peterson Laytonsville, Md - ------------------------------------ Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 07:40:09 -0500 From: results <results at win.bright.net> Subject: Mixing The Mash The old Strohs (Hamms) brewery in St. Paul had two of these things built in like the '30s. They were steam fired and considerably larger of course, but the idea is the same. Looked like a good idea to me. Of course they have dedicated lauter tuns; I have no idea how you wold luater in one of those unless it was built like a washing machine. Hey wait a minute, maybe Red Green had a good idea after all... The spin cycle would do wounders for sparging.. ;-) Randy Lee Viking Brewing Company Dallas, WI http://www.win.bright.net Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 09:05:49 -0400 From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu> Subject: Re: Carm's Hops I wrote regarding Carm's harshness: >But here is a big clue: > >> 1 oz Chinook (12.5%) 60 min > >assuming 23% utilization, = 69 IBU Thanks to Scott Murman <smurman at best.com> for pointing out that I misplaced a digit or something. Indeed I did - I ran it for 1.5 oz. Chinook. Dooh! This would give ~50 IBU, just fine for the style. My apologies. Carm will have to look elsewhere for his harshness I guess. Jeff -=-=-=-=- Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan c/o nerenner at umich.edu "One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943. Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 11:31:19 +0000 From: salvator at future.dreamscape.com Subject: Overwelming response to Carm's (mine!) harshness problems First of all let me thank the collective here for taking the time to respond privately and here. I appreciate it tremendously. A couple of clarifications about my original post though. The water I used for every batch - PRIOR - to this last one was the spring water. For this last batch I used city tap water that was run through the carbon filter to remove the chlorine. The specs I gave were for the city water - sent to me by the water board - and NOT the spring water. And, it was the spring water that left all of the deposit residue when I mistakenly boiled some dry. I apologize for not making this clearer the first go around. I'm using a calibrated pH meter from Hanna Instruments - I believe that this is plenty acurate, and calibrated correctly. I used this meter to verify the pH of the city tap water and measured within .04 of thier stated pH. Most of the responses I've recevied have centered around 3 subjects. 1. Hops - Many people are of the opinion that Chinook hops are somewhat harsh and that my use of 1oz at 12.5% for a 1.050 beer is too much. Unfortuantly I have used No. Brewer and Perle that were lower in AA and at lower hopping rates and achieved (not much of an achievement though!) that same results. I don't think my problem lies here - although I'm sure that it is making the sum total of the problem worse. 2. Mash/Water/pH - Some people have looked at the specs I gave from the water board for my city tap water and thought that they were not quit right. I'll adimt that the pH looked high for the mineral composition of the water - Sooooooo - yesterday I called the water board to check on the pH that was quoted - well it was correct pH = 9.2. The funny thing here is that without adding any correction and without any dark grain the pH fell right to 5.2 - with water that alkaline I would have expected that the mash pH would have been too high and I fully exoected to add some gysum to try and lower it. Could it be that because it has so little mineral conternt it had too little buffering capaicity even though the water's pH was high? 3. Sparge - I stated that I added some lactic acid to my sparge water to drop the pH from 9.2 to 7.0. Some people have stated that this is not enough - I should drop it to at least 6.0 and maybe as far as 5.5. I'm still digesting the responses and will make a change or two when I brew this weekend. Will report the results and changes. Once again - thanks to all of you who took the time to respond. Carm Salvatore Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 12:00:38 -0400 From: "Anton Verhulst" <verhulst at zk3.dec.com> Subject: Two possibilities - Re: Getting VERY frustrated . . . Please help! Hypothesis #1 Harshness caused by tannins "....prominent harshness. The 2 wheat batches actually came out pretty good...". Wheat doesn't have husks. Some how, you may be extracting tannins from the barley husks and that's where the harshness is coming from. It sounds like you have the pH thing under control but I'm suspicious. Getting no break is pretty rare if the pH is correct. How are you measuring the pH? Avoid those cheap paper strips like the plague. There are several narrow range strips (pH 4 - 7) available that are quite accurate. If it's not the pH, then maybe you're shredding the barley husks while crushing and this would increase the surface area and, subsequently, tannin extraction. Hypothesis #2 Harshness caused by hop / mineral interaction High levels of minerals in the water are known to change the hop flavor profile. Look at the water of Burton on Trent for and example. Activated charcoal filters are great for removing chlorine and organics but do nothing at all for dissolved solids. I know that you added some distilled water but I strongly recommend testing for hardness. If this is the cause of the harshness, the reason that you didn't notice it in the wheat beer is that this style is typically hopped at much lower levels than other beers. Tony V. Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 14:17:01 -0400 From: "Capt. Marc Battreall" <batman at terranova.net> Subject: Primetabs (tm) Hello All, Just wanted to post a report on a product I just tried recently with favorable results. (Standard disclaimer applies, no I don't work for, invest in, or have any affliation with this company) They are called Primetab(s) and come in a small plastic packet of approximately 250 - 500 mg tablets. I got them free from Lewis Good at WABBY in Miami to try out just to see what they are all about. Instructions are written on the package and are simple enough; with sanitary conditions simply drop 3 tabs into each bottle at filling time and cap as normal. It claims to be the same amount of carbonation as 1/2 cup corn sugar per 5 US gallons. My last batch I bottled a six pack (the rest in a Corny) and did an experiment with 2 bottles each containing 1, 2, and 3 tabs each, marking them accordingly. This particular brew was my house American Pale Ale and the recipe is fairly consistent. The SG at racking time was 1.018, just about .002 from complete. I left the bottles at room temp of 74F for a week then a week in the refrig at 40F. At tasting time I tested the beers in order of least amount of tabs first. The brew with 1 tab was very, very lightly carbonated, and showed very few small rising bubbles. The brew with 2 tabs was a little better. This would probably be just about right for your bitters and other lightly carbonated brews. The brew with three was absolutely perfect in my honest opinion. Granted, your tastes and likes mary vary, but I would say that this would be just about right for most all styles required moderate to high carbonation. Please remember that these brews were only conditioned for 2 weeks total. As far as economy, these tabs retail for less than $1.50 (unverified) so they cost a little more than bulk dextrose (at about $1 a lb.). You should be able to bottle at least 80-12 oz bottles. But, for guys like me who brew 6 gallons, keg 5, and bottle the rest for give aways and competitions and the like, they are very convenient and have proven to be fairly accurate in my experience. Give 'em a try!! - -- Captain Marc Battreall Islamorada, Florida Future site of "The BackCountry Brewhouse" Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 14:27:05 -0400 From: "Capt. Marc Battreall" <batman at terranova.net> Subject: Liberty!! At Last!!! Been working on a Anchor Liberty Ale clone for quite some time and finally stuck gold! The 2 key ingredients that finally made the breakthrough were the yeast (obviously) and the hops and hppoing schedule. The brew finished it's conditioning yesterday and when I tasted it, success never tasted soooo gooood, believe me! It is golden, slightly hazy, GREAT big frothy head, and hopppppppyyyyyy!!! I won't bore the collective with the recipe unless enough people want it posted. Feel free to e-mail me if you want a copy. Thanks go out to George Fix, and All About Beer Magazine, for helping find the answers to my ingredient questions!! Cheers, - -- Captain Marc Battreall Islamorada, Florida Future site of "The BackCountry Brewhouse" Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 15:08:24 EDT From: JPullum127 <JPullum127 at aol.com> Subject: cornelius kegs I was just given 10 cornelius kegs from a guy who opened a business and found them in a closet. I don't know anything about kegging . is there a kegging faq lurking out there? could especially use some advice on cleaning them as most still have pop in them thanks Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 12:24:24 -0700 From: gpeake at mail.island.net (Geoff Peake) Subject: Water Problems >From: salvator at future.dreamscape.com >Subject: Getting VERY frustrated . . . Please help! >(snip) >Can anyone offer any suggestions as to where my problem/s may lie? >Remember I didn't perceive the same harshness from the 2 wheat >batches - but they were less hopped. The frustration level is running >very high - if I can't solve this real soon there'll be some >equipment for sale. I am no water chemist but if I'm not mistaken, the pH of your water seems way to *high* for the amount of minerals in your water. There must be significant amounts of SOMETHING in there to jack that pH up to 9.2--9.6. Jeff Renner's point of just plain too many hops is well taken too. The best thing to try is a batch or two with totally different water (which you can get an analysis for) and see how things turn out. If your beers taste better then you know it IS the water. My water is high in iron and manganese so I just drive into town and fill a few water jugs from the local brew shop. The water there is even softer than Pilsen water, pH 7.1 and almost an ideal starting base for making beer. Good Luck Geoff Peake Courtenay, BC Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 19:51:16 -0400 From: mel at genrad.com (Mark E. Lubben) Subject: Re: Harsh brew There have been various posts about Carm Salvatore's beer. The lack of break is puzzling, but my experience would indicate too LOW a PH during the boil could cause it. Too high a PH during sparge would extract tannins so I wouldn't worry. Like Jeff Renner, I agree in suspecting the large amount of high alpha Chinook. I haven't seen anyone jump on it, but was this hopping taken from an extract recipe by chance? It seems like a common mistake when starting all-grain. If you assume a 2 gallon concentrated boil, the utilization drops and it becomes a hoppy but tolerable pale ale. By Tinseth and other tools I got numbers that said I should cut my hops by 25% when I went to a full boil (coinciding with all-grain). I found I actually had to cut back more like 35%. I decided it must be because I also switched to an outdoor propane burner giving a more vigorous boil compared to the 2.5 gallon boil on the kitchen stove. Maybe it helps that I don't have to fear death if it boils over. I used similar amount of 11.7% Galena in a ELEVEN GALLON batch of robust porter! First sample when racking to secondary says that I won't be drinking lots of it for a "few" weeks yet. Mark Lubben BTW I find it much easier to see out of a carboy than a plastic bucket. Of course that makes it harder to hide from the spouse unless there is porter or stout in there with me. Tradeoffs... Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 02:33:45 +0100 From: "Mort O'Sullivan" <tarwater at brew-master.com> Subject: Beta Glucanases Ray Estrella writes about an enzyme complex sent to him by SAF-ISIS: >It is called SAFIZYM PTN-L, it is "an enzymatic complex that displays >strengthened Xylanase activities. (Endoglucanases, cellbiohydrolases, >and b-glucosidases) It is especially suited for the hydrolysis of the >hemicellulosic and cellulosic fractions" In their specifications they >come up with 12000 B-glucanase Units/ml. "The B-glucanase unit is >described as the amount of enzyme that releases one micromole of >reducing function per minute as glucose equivalent, with barley B-glucan >as substrate" (Quoted items are from material they sent me) My advice to you is to be very wary of claims by enzyme manufacturers on units of activity for enzymes (this is a general statement and is not directed toward any single manufacturer, including SAF-ISIS, as I know nothing about this particular company). Enzymes are very particular as to which substrates they will work on, and the substrates a manufacturer tests his enzyme on is quite likely to be different than the substrate you need it to work on. Barley B-glucans are the perfect example. Statistically, barley B-glucans are about 70% B-1,4 links and 30% B-1,3 links. Barley B-glucans can also be subdivided based on whether they are hot water soluble (gums) or alkali soluble (hemicelluloses). The gums are of particular interest to brewers and they can be further subdivided into those that are soluble at 40C (smaller MW) and those that are soluble at 65C (higher MW). The 65C substrate contains consecutive B-1,3 links, whereas the 40C substrate contains only single B-1,3 links. This becomes significant when considering B-glucanases. There are basically 3 types of commercially available B-glucanases (obtained from fungi and bacteria). Endo-B-1,4-glucanase; Endo-B-1,3:1,4-glucanase; and Endo-B-1,3-glucanase (the latter two occur naturally in barley). Most manufacturers will not tell you (and may not even know) exactly what the mixture of B-glucanases is in their enzyme soup. Instead, they give you obscure figures about enzyme units/ml that you are expected to understand. Even if you happen to be a biochemist and understand enzyme units, the claims of the manufacturer can still be misleading. Consider the case above where the manufacturer claims 12000 units/ml for barley B-glucan as substrate. It is fairly common practice to prepare the barley B-glucan substrate by extracting the B-glucans from flaked barley in water at 40C. Presumably, this extracts the 40C substrate, but because the barley had been previously heated above 65C in the flaking process, the primary substrate present is actually the 65C substrate. Now, let's suppose that the enzyme soup is primarily Endo-B-1,3-glucanase. This enzyme will show high activity when assayed on the extract of flaked barley because of the presence of 65C substrate (remember it has consecutive 1,3 links), but would not have nearly the same activity on the 40C substrate (the activity on pure 40C substrate may be 1000 units/ml rather than 12000 units/ml). If you were to rely on the figures given to you by the enzyme manufacturer and use the enzyme preparation at the recommended dosage, you may be sorely disappointed when the viscosity of your wort that is high in 40C substrate does not drop significantly. I do not mean to scare people away from using enzymes (although a good brewer using good raw materials will generally not need them), but wanted to enforce the point that if you introduce enzymes into your brewing process without knowing their exact specificity, you are only increasing the chance of variability in your end product because of inadequate understanding of how all your brewing materials and processing aids work together. If purchasing B-glucanases, ask whether the substrate the enzyme was tested on was whole, milled barley or flaked barley. - -------------- Cheers, Mort O'Sullivan Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 22:43:53 -0500 From: "Raymond C. Steinhart" <rnr at popmail.mcs.net> Subject: Re: Ed's RIM pump Ed, This is way overkill. Maybe in a brewery but not in a RIM system. You could control the output by placing a valve on the discharge side. You don't put one on the suction side because you could damage the seals from lack of lubrication from the pumping fluids. Also, this uses a mechanical seal which is dificult to keep clean to prevent contaminating your wort and to prevent it from destroying itself when it had gummy wort left in it. Total head in feet is how high a vertical column of water can be pushed by the pump (this is a measure of the pumps ability to move a fluid against resistance from the piping system). As the height increases, flow decreases. This also effects pressure indirectly. This type of pump (centrifugal) is made for moving volumes of water at relatively low pressures. - -- My RIM System "http://www.mcs.net/~rnr" Return to table of contents
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