HOMEBREW Digest #2694 Wed 22 April 1998

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		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
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  aging (JohanNico)" <JohanNico.Aikema at akzonobel.com>
  Re: High pH Tap Water (Scott Murman)
  Help with Eric's Raspberry Wheat. (Tom Gentry)
  Traverse City Brews (Nathan_L_Kanous_Ii)
  Husky Tannins ("David R. Burley")
  Re: Paradise Seeds ("Joel Plutchak")
  Re: slow cool/evap rates ("Jim Busch")
  Grains of Paradise, ginger wit (Jeff Renner)
  Re: Paradise Seeds (John E Carsten)
  Re: Tinseth hop calculations (brian_dixon)
  Re: Briess Pale Ale Malt (ThE GrEaT BrEwHoLiO)
  Re: One last Idophor question (brian_dixon)
  Pizza pan false bottom ("Andrew Avis")
  Condom Oxygenators (EFOUCH)
  Re: paradise seeds ("Tomusiak, Mark")
  What are "green flavors"? (Seelsorge)
  cat puke samples (AlannnnT)
  new hydrometer (JPullum127)
  To top off or not to top off that is the ? ("Dr. Dwight A Erickson")
  kiln (Jon Sandlin)
  Re: Yakima Goldings (Aaron A Sepanski)
  Briess 2 row pale (Brad Johnson)
  Cold Break Question (Steve)
  re:yakima goldings (Sean Mick)
  Too Hot! (Troy Hager)
  Bugs inside cooler (Troy Hager)
  Yeah... I've got milk... and references! (Al Korzonas)
  proteins and body/decoctions (Al Korzonas)
  Paradise (Al Korzonas)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 07:35:44 +0200 From: "Aikema, J.N. (JohanNico)" <JohanNico.Aikema at akzonobel.com> Subject: aging Dear Brewers, Last evening our homebrewclub had a meeting at my house and we sampled eight English Bitters and Strong Ales which were taken home from a trip to England a few weeks ago. On the labels the best before date was July / December 1998. Four of the Bitters / Strong Ales had a little to strong taste of chocolate! and some port(-wine) notes. Pedigree bitter from Marston 4.5 % Bombardier premium bitter from Charles Wells 4.3 % Black Sheep Ale from Paul Teakston's Black Sheep Brewery 4.4 % Tangle foot strong ale from Badger brewery 5 % The others tasted fruity, hoppy, slightly malty. King Billy Bitter from Cropton Brewery 3.6 % 6x from Wadworth Brewery 4.3 % Golden Promise organic Ale from Caledonian Brewery 5 % Old Speckled Hen strong ale from Morland Brewery 5 % I thought portwine taste is a sign of aging. But the beers weren't old. And what could caused the chocolate taste? None of the beers had (even a slight) taste of diacetyl. I couldn't find "chocolate or port(wine) in Pale Ale (ClassicBeer StyleSeries) nor in Evaluating Beer (Brewers Publications). Please comment (what do the (home)brewers from the UK think?). I don't have access to Internet (just E-mail). TIA, Greetings from Holland, Hans Aikema Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 00:01:11 -0700 From: Scott Murman <smurman at best.com> Subject: Re: High pH Tap Water Just to add my $0.02, the greater San Francisco Bay Area, and probably most of the West Coast of California has water that is above pH 9 for the majority of the year. I think it's safe to say that folks are still able to brew good beer with this type of soft municipal water. BTW, don't those brewers at Red Hook know that protein rests are detrimental with todays highly modified malts? You would think that professional brewers would be aware of basic information like this. They're almost as bad as those stubborn German brewers that still use decoction brewing even after the invention of the thermometer. Don't they know they're wasting their time? SM Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 02:33:04 -0600 From: Tom Gentry <brewguy at ix.netcom.com> Subject: Help with Eric's Raspberry Wheat. In HBD # 2693, Eric Bonney was worrying about his first raspberry wheat, I have never posted to HBD before and saw this as a rare opportunity for me to say something relevant and moderately interesting (and hopefully helpful to Eric). He had a ton of questions, I addresed some of them: > 2. I think the 8 oz of raspberry extract might have been a bit much, > but we will have to see. With the Extracts from L.D. Carlson, you would use 1 bottle (4oz.) for a hint of flavor and 2 bottles for a full flavor. For a raspberry wheat, 8 oz. should be perfect. Another note on those extracts, they contain no fermentables and can and should be added at bottling (kegging) time. Fermentation will diminish the delicate fruit aromas (CO2 scrubbing). > 3. After I was done cooling the wort, it had a tremendous amount of > trub, all I did was dump this into the fermenter. Is there a way I could have > removed this so as not to put it into the fermenter? Will this cause any > problems in my beer? After about 7 days I plan on racking it into a 5 gal. > carboy for about 14 days or so. If your wort has been cooled you can pull out your trusty racking cane and siphon off of the trub. I do this with the addition of an aerating gizmo attached to the other end of the siphon tubing (no hot break, instant aeration). A reason for leaving the hot break behind is the protein will end up as chill haze in your finished beer, no big deal in a cloudy weizen. > 4. When using the pellet hops, is it ok to just put the pellets into > the wort as I did in this batch, or should I have used a hop sock? I used the > sock for the finishing hops. Your hops will eventually settle. Sometimes I use a hop bag , sometimes not, I've never noticed a real difference other than the "hop sock" reduced my utilization. > 6. When I used the yeast, all I did was open the foil package and > dumped it into the wort, and mixed in. Somewhere I recall reading something > about preping the yeast in some way, or was that only if I was using dry yeast? Starter, starter, starter, you would need to pour in 10 smack packs to get the minimum recommended yeast count for a 5 gallon batch (or find a ready to pitch liquid yeast like those from White Labs). Hope it helps, and guys, please correct me if I'm wrong. Tom Gentry "The Unabrewer" <brewguy at ix.netcom.com> -"Talk is cheap because supply exceeds demand" Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 06:55:59 -0400 From: Nathan_L_Kanous_Ii at ferris.edu Subject: Traverse City Brews Going to Traverse City, MI this weekend. Any recommendations as to where to drink beer and where not to? I'll probably only be able to hit one place. Maybe two. TIA Nathan in Frankenmuth, MI Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 09:08:15 -0400 From: "David R. Burley" <Dave_Burley at compuserve.com> Subject: Husky Tannins Brewsters: AlK implies that barley husks do not contain tannin and that I should be reading the modern version of Malting & Brewing Science. Well, I have both versions of M&BS. Personally, I think it is a plus that I began reading the first edition of M&BS in 1971 when it was first published. But AlK aparently didn't read far enough on p 96 Para 2 of M&BS 2nd ed or at least didn't put it in his comments. The next sentence says: "However, phenols also occur in the 'true' (barley) husk and may be partly removed, together with other components of 'testinic acid' mixture using alkaline steeps, giving rise to less astringent beers." My point was the alkaline water at pH = 9.2-9.6 would dissolve these phenols, but they would remain in the beer and could be the cause of the astringency. Wheat would contain the other phenols from the aleurone and pericarp like barley, but since wheat doesn't have a true husk unlike barley, phenols from this source would not be present in the wheat beers. And would explain the reason his wheat beers were not uncommonly astringent. Keep on brewin' Dave Burley Kinnelon, NJ 07405 103164.3202 at compuserve.com Dave_Burley at compuserve.com Voice e-mail OK Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 08:24:16 -0500 From: "Joel Plutchak" <joel at bolt.atmos.uiuc.edu> Subject: Re: Paradise Seeds In HBD #2693, Mark Tomusiak wrote: > Greetings all...I recently came across a homebrew supplier on the > internet that is advertising something called "paradise seeds" for > Belgian brewing, indicating that they lend a spicy, peppery flavor. > Anybody have any idea what these are? I dug around for some info on > them, and came up with conflicting references to paprika and cardamom, > amongst other things. Any thoughts would be appreciated, "Paradise seeds" *may* be what are known as Grains of Paradise, Guinea Pepper, or Melegueta pepper. The Boston Beer Company uses them in their Summer Ale, and they were mentioned before that in one of the _Zymurgy_ special issues (1994, I think) . I tasted one once, and it seemed not entirely unlike Szechuan peppercorns to me-- spicy, peppery, and herb/floral aromatic. A quickie web search yielded a bunch of hits, including: http://www.hort.purdue.edu/newcrop/Crops/Grains_of_Paradise http://bkfug.kfunigraz.ac.at/~katzer/engl/Afra_mel.html Hope that helps. - -- Joel Plutchak 4th Annual Boneyard Brew-Off, June 13 1998, Champaign Illinois See <http://starfire.ne.uiuc.edu/buzz/contest4.html> for details. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 09:32:10 +0000 From: "Jim Busch" <jim at victorybeer.com> Subject: Re: slow cool/evap rates > After boiling, transfer the still hot wort to a Pyrex carboy. Take a > sanitized balloon (or condom) and fill it with a suitable amount of pure > oxygen. Attach this balloon to the top of the carboy so that it will have > some sanitary oxygen to suck in as the cooling wort contracts. This should > also serve to oxygenate the wort. When the wort has cooled sufficiently, > the balloon is removed and the yeast pitched into what should be a > completely sanitary (sterile?) environment. The cold break will be in the > carboy using this method, but it would also be there if using a CF chiller. You will find that that the quantity of cold break in the slow cool method will be much lower than if a CF or Immersion chiller were employed. I also would avoid the oxygen idea with very hot wort. You also could not get enought O2 into solution to satisfy the yeast requirements. Stick with the CF chiller. > O.G. after boil: 1.066 (five gallons) > Gravity of the boil: 1.047 (seven gallons) Boiling from 7 gals down to 5 gals is an evaporation rate of 29%!! Usual targets are 7-15% per hour, so the max I would aim for with a 90 min boil is 20% evap. I bet this could have an impact on final IBU numbers. Prost! Jim Busch Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 09:53:56 -0400 From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu> Subject: Grains of Paradise, ginger wit "Tomusiak, Mark" <tomusiak at amgen.com> wrote: >I recently came across a homebrew supplier on the >internet that is advertising something called "paradise seeds" for >Belgian brewing, indicating that they lend a spicy, peppery flavor. >Anybody have any idea what these are? I dug around for some info on >them, and came up with conflicting references to paprika and cardamom, >amongst other things. Any thoughts would be appreciated, This is a spice more commonly called "grains of paradise." I've also seen it called black cardamom and Guinea grains. It originated in Africa, is related to cardamom (of Asian origin), and both are in the ginger family, _Zingiberaceae_. The scientific name is _Aframomom melagueta_. It has an aromatic, peppery aroma. I have used it sparingly (3 grams in 7-1/2 gallons) in my ginger wit http://hbd.org/brewery/cm3/recs/09_85.html and felt it gave a bit of additional complexity that was lacking when I left it out, but it wasn't at all essential. By the way, with warm weather approaching, let me encourage brewers to consider brewing ginger wit, a great, refreshing summer beer. This is a traditional witbier recipe with the substitution of fresh ginger for orange peel and lactic acid. It gives a bit of the bite that the lactic acid might, and the ginger is very refreshing. It is popular with beer drinkers and those who prefer a cooler-type drink. The spice bill for *7.5 gallons* is: 3.2 oz peeled fresh ginger, pureed 1 oz. freshly ground coriander 5 g. freshly ground cardamom 3 g. freshly ground grain of paradise Check the web page for the full recipe. If you can't get soft, white winter wheat, soft red will do. This beer evolves amazingly over months and years. At some points, the ginger predominates, at others the cardomom. Not too long ago here, someone claimed that wits don't age well, and should be consumed in a few months. Let me tell you, it ain't true, at least with this one. I just had a two year old one that was wonderfully dry and complex. Jeff -=-=-=-=- Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan c/o nerenner at umich.edu "One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943. Return to table of contents
Date: 21 Apr 1998 09:20:46 -0500 From: John E Carsten <John.E.Carsten at oklaosf.state.ok.us> Subject: Re: Paradise Seeds Mark Tomusiak wrote: >Greetings all...I recently came across a homebrew supplier on the >internet that is advertising something called "paradise seeds" for >Belgian brewing, indicating that they lend a spicy, peppery flavor. >Anybody have any idea what these are? I dug around for some info on >them, and came up with conflicting references to paprika and cardamom, >amongst other things. Any thoughts would be appreciated, Now I wasn't following the white beer thread too closely a week or so ago ... but could this be the "unknown" spicy ingredient we were looking for in Hoegaarden (sp.)? Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 98 07:38:23 -0700 From: brian_dixon at om.cv.hp.com Subject: Re: Tinseth hop calculations >I have a question for anyone who uses Tinseth's hop calculations. I >emailed this message to Glenn Tinseth himself, but have not yet >received a reply. > >I'm a beta tester for a new brewing program which incorporates >Tinseth's formula. I contend that, based on the information on >Glenn's website, the program uses his formula incorrectly. The >calculators on Tinseth's website agree with the program's results >_if_ the gravity you use is the original gravity, i.e. post-boil >gravity. > >It seems to me that Tinseth's calculators are in fact asking for the >pre-boil gravity. His CGI calculator asks for "Boil wort gravity >(specific gravity)" and the javascript one asks for "Wort Specific >Gravity (during the boil)" (see http://realbeer/hops). Obviously this >will make a major difference in the calculations. > >Here's an IPA example that I gave to the author of the program. I use >a propane cooker and easily boil off 1.5-2 gallons in an hour: > >O.G. after boil: 1.066 (five gallons) >Gravity of the boil: 1.047 (seven gallons) >Hop additions: Centennial 10.5% AA: 2.5 oz--60 minutes, .5 oz--10 >minutes; >Cascade 3.5% AA: 1 oz--10 minutes, 1 oz--knockout > >IBUs using 1.066 as gravity: 88 IBU (the program and Tinseth's >calculators agree) >IBUs using 1.047 as gravity: 104 IBU > >Any thoughts? > Matt I believe Tinseth's IBU calculations come out correctly if you use the actual 'best estimation' gravity of the boil. In your example above, I'd recommend starting with the average boil gravity. For example, try using 1.056, which is the average of the gravities for the pre- and post-boil volumes. This is the most commonly used technique. If Tinseth's web app or the program you are testing disagrees with the results of finding the IBUs with this average gravity, then it's probably worth talking to the appropriate author about it to get more info on his/her assumptions. You can also use Glenn's web page info to calculate the IBU's by hand, and would probably find most of your answers right there. Good luck and keep brewin'! Brian Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 09:40:26 -0500 From: ThE GrEaT BrEwHoLiO <skotrat at wwa.com> Subject: Re: Briess Pale Ale Malt Andrew Wrote: >What I am curious about is the >Briess pale *ale* malt, which wasn't available the last time (years ago) >I bought domestic malts. How does this malt compare to Marris Otter and >other UK pale ale malts in terms of modification, yeild, ease of mashing >and, most importantly, flavor? I have been using the Briess Pale Ale Malt for about a year now and I have been incredibly pleased with all of the beers I have made with it. I am a big Marris Otter lover but have found over the last two years Marris Otter has been really sending some poorly malted barley to us in the states. I need consistancy with a malt and they can't seem to do that as of late. I also like DeWolf Cousins but feel that their prices are way too high and it is very eratic as to its malting quality and extraction rates. The Briess Pale Ale 2 Row is very consistant in my eyes. I have averaged 84% extraction with it and have had no problems getting a good extraction with the few single step mashes I have done (I mostly step mash). The color and flavor of the malt are both excellent in my eyes. I have switched to this the Briess Pale Ale for all my ales and will continue to use it as a primary base malt until they screw it up or there is a better more consistant malt out there. I feel that finally American Maltsters have achieved the quality they were lacking before. I am sold! -Scott Abene Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 98 07:55:09 -0700 From: brian_dixon at om.cv.hp.com Subject: Re: One last Idophor question Hans asks about rinsing an Idophor sanitized fermenter, and wonders about how much Idophor is necessary for sanitizing the _water_. I assume he is intending to rinse the fermenter with sanitized water. Anyway, I wanted to make a comment about Idophor first, then I'll answer (TTBOMK) Hans' question about the water. First, if nobody warned you about the "Idophor Film" issue, then I will. You'll notice that when filling something like a carboy with an Idophor solution, that a layer of bubbles forms in the neck of the carboy. And the bubbles tend to turn into some kind of a film that floats. It doesn't seem to hurt anything, but some people would prefer a clean, no film, solution so they don't have to wonder about it. Also, if you use Idophor solution to sanitize bottles, then let them drip dry, you'll see this 'film stuff' float to the top of the beer while you are bottling. The film tends to stick to the side of your filler and then slides off. I use a big pot to catch the drips, so after awhile I see quite a few chunks of this 'film stuff' (whatever it really is) floating around the bottom of the pot. Again, it doesn't seem to hurt anything, e.g. no infections, fermentations and carbonation all works just fine. Now about the water. It doesn't matter what you are sanitizing, the required concentration is the same. Using a weaker solution because you are using 'clean' city water is probably no better than just using plain city water. Which by the way, is not a bad idea (got my flame retardent clothing on today). Here's what I do: sanitize everything (well) with an Idophor solution. I like it because I can _see_ it and it doesn't bleach my jeans when I spill. Then I rinse fermenters or bottles with hot city water right before using them. The reasoning is that the various tubes and utensils that get sanitized don't seem to add the 'film' to anything, so I leave them alone. For the fermenter, I figure the sanitizing is going to kill any infections residing in the thing. City water should have little to no infections in it. I use a good sized starter (minimum 1 quart) and depend on the ability of the yeast to overwhelm any infections that may have come from the city water. This I believe, is a very fair assumption. For the bottles, I assume that the beer itself can do the same thing. That is, the Idophor solution leaves the bottles as sanitary as we can expect at home, and the city water rinse (followed by a drip dry on a bottle tree) is very unlikely to add any significant infection. Given that nothing serious can grow in beer, it follows that putting beer into the just rinsed bottles is fine too. Brian PS: Some people will argue that rinsing with city water is not a good idea. If you still have concerns, either just let the Idophor drip dry (as recommended by the manufacturer), or do a rinse with a weak chlorine solution and let your stuff drip dry. I figure the city water _is_ a weak chlorine solution and provides enough protection! Return to table of contents
Date: 21 Apr 1998 09:51:45 -0600 From: "Andrew Avis" <Andrew.Avis.0519423 at nt.com> Subject: Pizza pan false bottom Greetings brewers, I asked this question on RCB and got a mixed response. I also searched the HBD archives to no avail. I recently purchased an Ecko pizza pan to use as a false bottom in a keg. This particular pizza pan has dozens of holes already drilled in it. I'm planning to drill several dozen more. The existing holes are just under 1/8", which when I compare it to my phil's phalse bottom, seem a bit large. The phil's seems to have holes in the 1/16" range. Is 1/8" too large? Will I have trouble clearing my runoff? Has anyone out there used this type of pizza pan successfully? Many thanks in advance, Andrew Avis PS - Although I have never brewed with cat puke, I have inadvertently included clumps of cat fur in my mash with no ill effect (more of it might actually work like rice hulls). My dog has licked the inside of the mashtun while I wasn't looking. My best beer had a spaghetti squash drop into the kettle. Cheers to interesting ingredients! Return to table of contents
Date: 21 Apr 1998 12:26:36 -0400 From: EFOUCH at steelcase.com Subject: Condom Oxygenators HBD- John queried: "After boiling, transfer the still hot wort to a Pyrex carboy. Take a sanitized balloon (or condom) and fill it with a suitable amount of pure oxygen. Attach this balloon to the top of the carboy so that it will have some sanitary oxygen to suck in as the cooling wort contracts. This should also serve to oxygenate the wort. When the wort has cooled sufficiently, After boiling, transfer the still hot wort to a Pyrex carboy. Take a sanitized balloon (or condom) and fill it with a suitable amount of pure oxygen. Attach this balloon to the top of the carboy so that it will have some sanitary oxygen to suck in as the cooling wort contracts. This should also serve to oxygenate the wort." John (and whomever else might want to try this)- Before you try your condom oxygen balloon for wort oxygenation, you better make sure of one of two things: Either use non-lubricated condoms, or Make sure of the composition of the lubricant. You don't want to introduce pure oxygen to oils. A most disturbing explosion will result, throwing glass, hot wort, fireballs and bits of slippery condoms in every direction. "Honest Doc- I just fell on it" Eric Fouch Bent Dick YoctoBrewery Safety Division Kentwood, MI Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 10:18:51 -0700 From: "Tomusiak, Mark" <tomusiak at amgen.com> Subject: Re: paradise seeds Thanks to all who responded to my questions about paradise seeds. Here is a reply that came from F.H. Steinbart (supplier of Belgian brewing ingredients, no affiliation, yada yada (sp?)) that I thought others might find interesting: > - > > Dear Mark, > > > > As a wholesaler/manufacturer of the Brewer's Garden line of herb and > > specialty Belgian sugars, I would probably be the one that your > question > on > > the Brewer's Digest would default to. > > > > Paradise seeds are also called grains of paradise. Their technical > name > is > > Aframomum Melegueta. It has been used as a pepper substitute > historically, > > but is closer to the cardamom seed in taste than it is to pepper. > To > > describe it accurately, I would have to say it is "earthy" like when > you > go > > hiking in a pine forest and you smell the wet earth with a pine > note. > The > > plant originates in West Africa and has found its way into some > specialty > > belgian beers and even ginger ale. It is not well known nor even > widely > > used. It is used by some select brewers in Belgium to achieve > unique > > flavors for their beers, but no one will divulge who uses it where. > They > > are a secretive lot. I do have a very old recipe that I will offer > below. > > I do not vouch for its flavor as I have not tried it. It was passed > to > me > > by a Belgian herb supplier to breweries who found it in an old > brewing > > book: > > > > (adjusted for a 5 gal batch done in extract) > > > > 8 lbs pale extract > > 2 lbs amber extract > > 1.5 oz hops > > 1/4 oz licorice root > > 2 oz molasses > > 1.5 gram (.06 oz) paradise seeds > > > > > > Fred Czuba > > Wholesale Manager > > Steinbart Wholesale > I think I might try using a bit of this in my elusive quest to create a Saison Dupont clone - sounds like it might lend some appropriate flavors. Mark Tomusiak Boulder, Colorado Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 14:50:49 EDT From: Seelsorge <Seelsorge at aol.com> Subject: What are "green flavors"? Greetings from a novice (who is sampling bottles of his first batch every few days in order to keeps tabs on developing flavors), I've heard the term "green" beer and "green flavors," and was wondering whether those refer to anything more than the "newness" of a brew. In tasting my beer after only two days in the bottle, I detected a strong hops flavor strongly reminiscent of putting a hops pellet in my mouth. To me, it was a "fresh," "raw," "green" taste. Is this what "green flavors" refers to? Will this mellow out or blend over time? ( I used half an oz. Columbus hops in a 50 minute boil) Also, can anyone direct me to some reading material explaining what flavor developments occur during bottle conditioning? Thanks, Rick Sawyer Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 14:52:22 EDT From: AlannnnT <AlannnnT at aol.com> Subject: cat puke samples I am lucky enough to have tasted a few of Jim Bentson's homebrews. I have even begged a recipe or two, since his beers are always very good to exceptional. But I just wanted to go on record here, Jim. You don't have to bring a sample of Hair Ball Ale next time you visit, I won't feel slighted. Alan Talman CAT -- The other white meat Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 15:21:53 EDT From: JPullum127 <JPullum127 at aol.com> Subject: new hydrometer I am looking for a different starting hydrometer. we have the standard 11 inch with graduations from .990 to 1160. what we are looking for is a larger one with larger spaces between the graduations. we rarely brew anything over 1.070 so less scale would be ok. thanks jaipur brewery ,omaha Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 12:55:53 -0700 From: "Dr. Dwight A Erickson" <colvillechiro at plix.com> Subject: To top off or not to top off that is the ? Some books say to top off the carboy after "blow off". Some say not to, some don't say. Some recipes are the same way... so, after "blow off" and the loss of a quart or so of fermenting wort, should I top it off or not ? Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 12:53:17 -0700 (PDT) From: Jon Sandlin <sandlinj at ucs.orst.edu> Subject: kiln I have been doing some reading on malting grains. It seems like a fairly easy process. I do have one question though; what is a kiln and how do I make/purchase one? Private e-mail is okay. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 16:02:57 -0500 (CDT) From: Aaron A Sepanski <sepan001 at uwp.edu> Subject: Re: Yakima Goldings Yakima Goldings refers to where they are grown, Yakima valley. I am sure that the broker that sold them was the Yakima chief. They are not Kent Goldings, they are US Goldings. There is a difference. Many "hop experts" will tell you. The biggest difference I have noticed, (with the US varieties from the Yakima chief) is that their noble strains tend to run high in alpha. This disrupts the flavor profile of many styles of beer, for one our pilsner. It tends to have a more clinging bitterness, and you can't derive as much hop character because of the alpha adjustment. Hope this sheds some light on the subject. Take care, Aaron Sepanski Brewmaster's Pub Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 11:10:23 -0400 From: Brad Johnson <bjohnson at berkshire.net> Subject: Briess 2 row pale Andrew Henckler asks about experience w/ Briess 2 row pale malt. I have been using this malt as my base malt extensively this winter in American style pale ales. (I get a 50# sack for $25, courtesy of a friend who drives past a supplier on his work commute - thanks James!) I find it well suited to single-temp infusion. I get about a 75% yield, and that is without a satisfactory mash-out, which I am still working on. I use it for about 80% of the grain bill in an IPA that has been very well received in competition; in a maltier amber I made it gave a very nice full malty flavor, again w/ a single-temp infusion. I expect to continue to use it in these styles. Brad Johnson Berkshire BroadArrow Brewery Bjohnson at berkshire.net Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 17:26:34 -0500 From: Steve <steves at ro.com> Subject: Cold Break Question John Bowerman <jbowerma at kfalls.net> wrote: > I get tremendous cold break, and usually lose about a half-gallon to a gallon > of wort in the kettle in order to leave it behind. No amount of whirlpooling > seems to concentrates it. Because loose hops plug the drain in my kettle, I > use a hop bag, so the idea of using hops as a filter bed doesn't work. > The break is extremely fine and short of using a sediment style filter, I > haven't been able to come up with a solution. I'd appreciate any thoughts, > comments, and hairballs anyone has. > John Bowerman > Klamath Falls, OR I've had this experience when using an extract kit from a supplier who adds Irish Moss to the boil hops. This break stuff is so fine that it won't drop at all. I've even taken the 3/4 gallon of slurry (for want of a better expression) and let it sit in a one gallon extract bucket for two days without it clearing more than 1/4 inch from the surface. Based on previous posts, I'm going to try using a stainless steel mesh (scavenged from a reinforced hot water hose) over a perforated copper tube. Previous attempts with the ChoreBoy over the end of the racking tube and pouring the dregs into a filtered funnel have been unsuccessful. I think that when I go to all grain, that leaving wort in the kettle won't bother me as much as with these (relatively) expensive extract kits. Steve Stripling Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 15:38:55 -0700 (PDT) From: homebrew at dcn.davis.ca.us (Sean Mick) Subject: re:yakima goldings These hops are in fact east kent golding rootstock transplanted to the Yakima valley. There is a significant difference between the two (EKG vs. Yakima Golding). Yakima, in my opinion, is more citrusy. East Kent has much more resiny, candy-like qualities (EKG is great for dryhopping a british ale!). I would say that Yakima Goldings is somewhere between an EKG and a Cascade. It seems that alot of the hops from the yakima region share the citrusy quality. Don't know why. Perhaps it's just a figment of my imagination. Yakima Golding is a decent hop in its own right. If you want a substitute for EKGs, though, Styrian Golding would be closer. Some nice writing on hops and their sensory evaluation can be found in the following books: Homebrewing Vol.1, Al Korzonas; Using Hops, Mark Garetz; Zymurgy Special Issue 1997; and on the web at www.hopunion.com Hoppy reading! Sean Mick Mick's Homebrew Supplies http://www.dcn.davis.ca.us/~homebrew Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 02:54:57 -0700 From: Troy Hager <thager at bsd.k12.ca.us> Subject: Too Hot! Shawn writes: I use a cajun cooker(180,000 BTU), and this thing will really boil away some wort! Yes, I use one too and am having a hard time regulating the boil. I have heard that you should shoot to boil off about 10% of the wort in a 90 min. boil. I have boiled off as much as 40%!!! I know this is way too much but would like to know how others are regulating their boils. How do you know how hot your cooker is cooking? My cookers have a very low budget regulator on them and a airflow(?) regulator on the cooker itself. How should I control these accurately? Advise about this would be appreciated. Personal email is fine! Thanks. Troy A. Hager 2385 Trousdale Drive. Burlingame, CA 94010 259-3850 Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 02:41:47 -0700 From: Troy Hager <thager at bsd.k12.ca.us> Subject: Bugs inside cooler Rich, Yes, I have had both problems. I have a 7 gallon Rubbermaid (Gott) and mine has warped a bit in the inside. I too used to use a stopper and tube set up until one day I was fiddling around with it during the mash and pushed the stopper into the hot mash! Hot wort and grain gushed out and of course made its way in between the walls of the cooler and spoiled inside and smelled absolutely horrible. I was very upset and drilled a small hole in the bottom and poured straight bleach in and let it sit for a few days and then rinsed with hot water. It was a pain trying to get all the water in and out but at least in doesn't smell rotten any more! My solution was to hook up a brass ball valve with a 1/2" nipple (fits perfectly), into a tee and then into my slotted copper manifold. I sealed the inside by getting some thick rubber gasket-making material from the hardware/plumbing store and made a gasket to seal around the tee inside. For the outside I fashioned a thick plastic washer out of PVC for the ball valve to rest against and it works like a charm! I suggests doing something like this because someday you are going to push that stopper in like I did and burn your hand as well as infect the inside of your cooler. Troy A. Hager 2385 Trousdale Drive. Burlingame, CA 94010 259-3850 Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 20:03:12 -0500 (CDT) From: Al Korzonas <korz at xnet.com> Subject: Yeah... I've got milk... and references! Dave writes: >AlK incorrectly states that milk stout has to have >milk sugar in it. > >Michael J. Lewis in "Stout" Classic Beer series says: > >p 50 "Milk Stouts might contain some small percentage of >lactose (milk sugar) but not necessarily." This isn't the first time I've disagreed with Lewis and I'm sure it won't be the last. If sweet stout is not made with unfermentable sugar, then it must be pasteurised or sterile filtered and then sweetened with simpler sugars. Certainly this is not a traditional way of making beer and most of us homebrewers shudder when someone suggests pasteurisation or sterile filtration as a step in making a beer. >The connection between milk and health was used by >purveyors to imply healthfulness and richness in alcoholic >beverages. ala Bristol Milk Sherry and Bristol Cream Sherry. Whatever, but the source of the "milk" association with the beer is that milk sugar was used to sweeten the beer. That is well-established. Reading directly from a 1910 label of Mackeson's Milk Stout: "Each pint contains the energising carbohydrates of ten ounces of pure dairy milk." That's "lactose" to you and me, Dave... >Lewis says on page 27: "Milk and Cream Stouts arose >perhaps as a means of boosting the already implied >healthful properties of stout by adding milk products such >as lactose or whey or (in one patent) concentrated >peptonized (partially hydrolysed) milk." If you taste Mackeson's XXX today, I assure you that a bottled beer like this cannot be homebrewed without at least 1 pound of lactose per 5 gallon batch (and it could be 2 pounds)... I used but 8 ounces and it was only about 1/4 to 1/2 as sweet as Mackeson's (luckily... I don't really like overly sweet stout). ...regardless of what the marketing suits or patents say. >I was surprised to learn that AlK had a milk stout 5 years ago >in Britain, since I thought the name had been made illegal. >Perhaps I confused the US laws with the British laws. >Or perhaps this was served in a pub and not in a bottle in >commerce? Ahh... therein is the problem. It wasn't in Britain... it was on a ship in the Caribbean. I did not get to keep the bottle so I don't know if it was brewed under contract in the Caribbean or whether it was brewed in England and labeled this way for export only. Jackson and Protz confirm that the use of "Milk" on the label was made illegal in Britain in the 1960's. Sounds about as stupid as the gov't officials here in Illinois that allow half-filled gasoline tanker cars to drive 70 miles an hour on Chicago highways, yet won't allow a train carrying napalm through. Or those senators that think they can justify a 10-round limit on rifle clips because the kids used a 15-round clip. I'm sure they would not have shot those kids and teacher if they only had 10-round clips... we sure have the stupidest, most gutless government money can buy. So, Dave is right about the "milk" law. However, if you believe Lewis, only a small amount of lactose is used in sweet stouts. I tend to believe my tastebuds, Jackson (New World Guide p.171, where he says that lactose is used in the kettle and at bottling and the beer is NOT pasteurised or filtered) and Protz (Ale Trail p.247-248, where he says that Mackeson's contains about 9% lactose -- he also notes here and on page 112 of Classic Stout and Porter, that although the beer has an OG of 1.042, it ferments down to only 3% abv... a testament to the amount of gravity imparted by the unfermentable lactose). Al. Al Korzonas, Palos Hills, IL korz at xnet.com http://www.brewinfo.com/brewinfo/ Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 20:32:19 -0500 (CDT) From: Al Korzonas <korz at xnet.com> Subject: proteins and body/decoctions Jim writes: >Hans also asks about thin beers and mentions extracts and degree of >attenuation. A beers body is not really predicated on degree of >attenuation so much as protein spectrum. A recent article by Dr >Narziss in Brauwelt indicates that beers of very high apparent degree >of attenuation (ADA in the 83-84%, which is very high indeed) do not >suffer from a loss of body. The key is the percentage of high >molecular weight nitrogenous fractions over 10,000 Mol Weight should >be kept in the 20-22% range of total nitrogen fractions. Narziss <snip> >the finished beer. Once again, Narziss agrees that rests in the >45-55C range should be minimized as the resultant beers display an >"empty, harsh beer which lacks liveliness". Either Narziss has been reading Fix or great minds think alike. Fix has posted on this topic several times over the last 8+ years and I believe the very first post to HBD which featured Dr. Fix's comments was when I quoted (with permission) a private correspondence with him on this very subject, back around 1989. Fix calls beers made with extended 50C rests "insipid." >As for ADA and full >bodied beers, I once again note that Bavarian Maerzens are highly >attenuated but also have very high degree of malt fullness and body. >German Altbiers are another good example. I'm not convinced that Duesseldorfer Altbiers are indeed very well attenuated... my tastebuds indicate otherwise, especially with Zum Uerige. Yes, I've seen Piendl's data, but remember that his lab was at Weihenstephan and Zum Uerige is: 1. pretty far away in Duesseldorf, 2. unpasteurised, 3. served from casks by gravity, like cask-conditioned real ale, and 4. the bottling line is not 100% sanitary (half-liter swing-top bottles closed *by hand*). I contend that the most traditional Altbiers from Duesseldorf may have attenuated further on the way to Munich to be tested. (Just my little theory.) >Speaking of decoction, did anyone else catch the article in American >Brewer by Dr Lewis where he claims that decoctions have no effect on >the finished beer??! I can see an argument whereby decoctions impart >more astringency, or increase haze, or decrease bottle stability or >increase mash yields or darken wort color or lend melanoidens to the >beer but to claim that there is no effect is mindboggling to me. >But hey, Im not a doctor just a rocket scientist. ;-} I told you it wouldn't be the last time... I'm with you Jim (although I'm not even a rocket scientist). I feel that Dr. Lewis may be a brilliant researcher and know an awful lot about brewing, but I suspect his views tend to get clouded by his megabrewer-centric biases. Al. Al Korzonas, Palos Hills, IL korz at xnet.com http://www.brewinfo.com/brewinfo/ Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 20:33:21 -0500 (CDT) From: Al Korzonas <korz at xnet.com> Subject: Paradise Mark writes: >I recently came across a homebrew supplier on the >internet that is advertising something called "paradise seeds" for >Belgian brewing, indicating that they lend a spicy, peppery flavor. >Anybody have any idea what these are? They are commonly called "Grains of Paradise." Al. Return to table of contents
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