HOMEBREW Digest #2696 Fri 24 April 1998

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		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
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  Re: Protein rests at Redhook (Scott Murman)
  RE: Husky Tannins/Liebfraumilch/Narziss ("Steve Alexander")
  cops and HB club meetings (kathy)
  Refractometers and degassing solutions / Hop musings (George_De_Piro)
  Burners (George_De_Piro)
  Q: corny keg handle repair (cdwood)
  St Goldings = Fuggle ("Dave Draper")
  Re: corny keg handle repair ("Lutzen, Karl F.")
  lactose & choc. syrup at bottling (Dan Szemenyei)" <iamelvis at esu.edu>
  Refractometers, Electric Boil, Clear Wave ("David R. Burley")
  Re:  Maris Otter/lot numbers (ThE GrEaT BrEwHoLiO)
  Altbier attenuation ("Jim Busch")
  re:Full volume boils on an electric stove? ("Brian J. Paszkiet")
  Electric stove; fire in the hole (ouch!); hydromefractometry (Samuel Mize)
  Al tubing & Caddo brewery in Shreveport (Dana Edgell)
  Clear Wave ("Fuggles McFirkin")
  electric stove boiling (Stephen Ross)
  apple cider (Jason Hartzler)
  Re: Tinseth BU equations ("Glenn Tinseth")
  Corny Keg Source ("Anderson, Vance")
  Protein content of malt (George_De_Piro)
  Cellarmanship and Long Term Storage (SBireley)
  Antique Guinness ("Lee C. Carpenter")
  Styrian Goldings (Al Korzonas)
  Re: Styrian Golding (Sean Mick)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 21:55:07 -0700 From: Scott Murman <smurman at best.com> Subject: Re: Protein rests at Redhook George D.P. and I seemed destined to continue this... > Scott Murman refers to a recent HBD that quotes the Redhook brewers as > saying that they use a 50C (122F) rest, then ramp up to 71C (160F) > when making their ESB. They use domestic 2-row barley malt. Scott > seems concerned that if they use a protein rest, it must be a good > thing. I was actually making a very sarcastic point that even "professional" brewers do use protein (and glucan) rests and feel it worthwhile in some instances. I've said in this forum many times that there are numerous variables involved and just as many opinions, and blanket statements such as, > The frivolity of a 50C rest is hardly worth disputing (in a barley > malt brew). Practical experience and modern literature agree that it > is not only a waste of brewhouse time, but it will result in a > lower-quality beer. are doomed to be quoted with "except". George, I'm glad you're so convinced that an entire range of enzyme activity have no utility in your brewing, but I'm not. SM (feeling frisky now that El Nino has left) Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 04:09:15 -0400 From: "Steve Alexander" <steve-alexander at worldnet.att.net> Subject: RE: Husky Tannins/Liebfraumilch/Narziss First - apologies for my extended absence, in the past 6 weeks I've left my employer of 11 years and started my own biz, It's been a busy time, but finally I've cleared the decks enough to get back to brewing and to HBD (the important stuff), after figuring out how to make a living. == Dave Burley and AlK are at it again regarding husks & phenolics for a brewer experiencing astringent beers. Dave is right that true husks do contain potentially astringent phenols, particularly polymers of monophenols that are most likely to be released under high pH conditions. These are also most likely to get caught in the hot/cold break (assuming the brewer was getting a good break - he was not). Al makes a good point that the total amount of phenols in the husk sieve fraction is (on a percentage basis) fairly small (~25%) and mostly attributable to the non-true-husk portion. Also other substances, like silicates in husks also create harsh flavors. I'd side with Al here *if* we knew the pH was OK. This low % of phenolics from the true husk figure goes out the window if the pH of far out of whack or you oversparge, or use too thin a mash. The brewer is getting astringency and no break matter - so despite the figures given, his pH measurements are subject to question. Wheat, rice, oats and barley all have about the same amount of total phenols in micrograms per gram of grain, in spite of the fact that wheat is huskless. They also all contain rather different mixes of phenolic compounds. During malting, and further during mashing many of the bound phenols become free due to enzymatic action. One possible difference is that the wheat is likely to be unmalted and therefore have less free phenols. I think this is somewhat unlikely though. Astringent taste is due to something, often phenolic compounds, binding to oligomers of amino acid (short proteins) in the mouth. So why didn't these bind to protein in the beer ? Because the appropriate proteins capable of binding were not present. A wheat addition may add the needed proteins to bind to the offending phenolics. Wheat does contain a protein fraction with high affinity for phenolic bonds. It can be much like adding PVPP/Polyclar or gelatin to reduce astringency - the phenols bound to proteins in haze are much less flavor active than free ones. 'Course Jeff Renner may have found the problem in the hops too. == Al also responded to a haze/dry hopping question. I have to disagree in part with his answer. Dry hopping and late hops additions can cause haze, and I've experienced this myself. The dry hops can apparently release enough polymeric phenols, even at a low pH, to push the balance toward protein-phenolic haze formation. My expectation is that this should be more prevalent when using oxidized (stale) hops, or when other oxidation products (as from HSA) are present. The hops phenolics (mostly monophenols and easily hydrolysable polymers of) must polymerize in order to play a part in haze formation. This can be caused by enzymatic activity (unlikely) and also oxidation reactions. I am surprised that this doesn't happen more often. == Jim Busch writes about Narziss and 'protein rests'. Jim - could you post/email the Brauwelt reference ? I intended to challenge the original post (was it George DePiro?), since it's well known that carboxypeptidases play an important role in protein release from malt and some have a temperature optima around 62C(144F). Ludwig Narziss is head researcher at Wehenstephan(sp?) I believe and has written some amazingly important stuff - mostly not in translation as far as I know. I keep reading the English abstracts and hoping he'll come out with a book. Anyone know ? == D.Burley ... >Liebfraumilch ( Mother Mary's Milk ) [...] Gee the literal translation is so much more evocative - are you sure this is right Dave ? Drink a QmP Kabinett or Spatslese instead anyway. == As my friend says .... "Don't give up or lose heart. It isn't tocket science." Tocket Science is my Life - 10^6 feet ESE of Jeff Renner - (sorry Jeff - had to) Stevea . Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 08:43:50 -0500 From: kathy <kbooth at scnc.waverly.k12.mi.us> Subject: cops and HB club meetings The Capital Area Brew Crew had their monthly meeting last night complete with cops and breathalyzers. Toward the end of the meeting (2-1/2 hrs in), the local communities finest were invited to stop in and educate us about breatholyzers. We started with the lightest at 150# who blew .07. In Michigan, .08 gets you an OUI, and .1 gets you a DUI. .07 turned out to be the highest of the evening with most in the .04-.055 or less and he had a designated driver. I couldn't even blow .01 on an estimated 60 oz in 3+ hours. We do ask attenders to bring 3 bottles max to share, but exceptions have occured. The cops were a very pleasant interlude and we were generally amazed at how much it takes to get .08 and the cops were amazed at how low us homebrewers tested. A story off the Prairie Home Campanion "Joke Night". The local cops were watching the tavern for DUI's and about 11:30 pm a young man staggered out...fell down....got up and hunted for car keys for some time....tried one car and then another until his opened and then he crawled into the back seat and slept. The cops waited for him to attempt to drive, as one by one other cars left. When the parking lot was empty of other cars, the potential offender started to drive away. The cops pulled him over and tested, but were amazed when the test results blew "0". They quizzed him about his conduct and thought their machine was defective, until the suspect said "Your machine is ok, I haven't had anything to drink....I was the designated decoy!" I doubt that .08 as a national limit would have much impact on much of anything, and I don't think it is a step onto the slippery slope toward prohibitation. Michigan's .08 hasn't had much impact on the polluted drivers at 1.8+ that are most of the arrests and accidents. Michigan's zero tolerance for underage drinker-drivers seems to have slowed down the high school crowd. cheers, jim booth, lansing, mi We do need to take the designated driver bit seriously. Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 09:32:57 -0700 From: George_De_Piro at berlex.com Subject: Refractometers and degassing solutions / Hop musings Hi all, Harlan is instituting a QC program at his brewery (great idea!). He is wondering how he can track fermentation gravity. Using a hydrometer is a pain because of the high CO2 content of the ferment. A refractometer won't really work on wort once alcohol is being produced. The alcohol alters the refractive index of the liquid, and without knowing how much alcohol is in the liquid, you can't correct for it. Brewer's Resource used to sell narrow range hydrometers, but they were too fragile to ship. I found this out when I called to order a new one after I broke the original. Scientific supply houses (the kind that charge ridiculous prices, like VWR and Fisher) sell narrow range hydrometers. I'm sure a good scrounger can find cheaper sources, but even the two places I mentioned aren't that expensive. As far as degassing the sample, it need not be work. Simply putting the sample on a stir plate for a few minutes should do the trick (and you don't have to stand there watching it). Also, sonication works pretty well, too. I believe there are pretty cheap sonicators available for cleaning jewelry at home. Check your local discount department store or call a jeweler and ask where the device can be found. ------------------------------------ Since the queue is still reasonable I'll babble a bit about my recent hop growing experiences. I have a yardful of second-year vines that started growing in March when we had a heat wave here in southern NY. Yesterday I finally got around to building a new, higher trellis for them and trimmed them back and strung them. Some of the vines are already 6 feet (~1.8 m) tall! My arms got pretty red and itchy after a brief time (I was wearing short sleeves). I seem to be allergic to hop vines. Is this common? I've seen films of young, bikini-clad, Czech. women stringing hop vines (oh, boy, the things that excite a brewer...). I couldn't help but wonder how common (or uncommon) my allergy is, and how these women felt at the end of the day! (Yes, I know that last line is a double entendre: get your minds out of the gutter!) Have fun! George De Piro (Nyack, NY) Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 09:41:17 -0700 From: George_De_Piro at berlex.com Subject: Burners Hi all, With all the talk about burners, and the flaws in the recent Zymurgy burner article, I figured that I would ask a question: What burners are the cleanest burning? I was really hoping to see that variable examined in the Zymurgy article. I am unfortunate enough to own one of those Cajun Rockets (it is gathering dust and rust in my basement). The major reason I don't use it is because it burns with such a sooty flame on anything but the highest output. As many here have noted, the liquid literally leaps from the pot when you run the thing that high. Not only useless, but dangerous; I was burned by wort from 3 feet (1 m) away once! Which burners can be run cleanly at all settings? Thanks for the info, have fun! George Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 09:45:17 -0400 From: cdwood at lexmark.com Subject: Q: corny keg handle repair paul, >paul.kensler at ibm.net Wrote: >I recently won a used ball-lock corny keg at a club meeting raffle. It has >one of those single-piece rubber handle / cap at the top (the kind where >you can stand it upside down), which is becoming separated from the >stainless steel. I had this problem with a keg I bought. I used some 3M brand, Scotch Grip(tm) 1357 High Performance Contact Adhesive. Worked great.... May Your Next Batch Be Your Best!! Curt Woodson Member of B.O.C.K. (Brewers Of Centeral Kentucky) Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 09:02:17 -6 From: "Dave Draper" <ddraper at utdallas.edu> Subject: St Goldings = Fuggle Dear Friends, Just to clarify a point, it has been known for a very long time that Stryian Goldings are Fuggle... I believe since Dave Line's day in the early 70s. The US Tettnanger = Fuggle revelation is much more recent, although from Andy Walsh's outstanding work it is apparent that this was known commercially for some time too. I second Dave B's praise of Andy's BT article-- excellent job. Cheers, Dave in Dallas - --- ***************************************************************************** Dave Draper, Dept Geosciences, U. Texas at Dallas, Richardson TX 75083 ddraper at utdallas.edu (commercial email unwelcome) WWW: hbd.org/~ddraper Beer page: http://hbd.org/~ddraper/beer.html Life is short, grain is cheap. ---Rich Lenihan Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 09:10:33 -0500 From: "Lutzen, Karl F." <kfl at umr.edu> Subject: Re: corny keg handle repair >From: Paul Kensler <paul.kensler at ibm.net> >Has anyone had success or failure trying to re-glue the handle to the keg? >I was thinking of using a semi-flexible all-purpose epoxy -- something that >would provide sort of a vacuum seal. I wouldn't suppose someone knows of >replacement handle kits?... I found a wonderful adhesive: Polyuerathane (sp?) Glue. It's $8.00 a bottle, but it bonds anything to anything (well, almost anything). It would be what I would try, as everything I've used it on has become permanently bonded together. One thing to be aware of, is that the glue requires humidity to cure and it expands a bit as it cures. (don't use it in extremely low humidity environments without wrapping it a damp cloth) ===================================================================== Karl F. Lutzen | Computing and Information Services Scientific Programmer Analyst II | University of Missouri - Rolla E-Mail: kfl at umr.edu | 114 Math-Computer Science Bldg. Fax: (573) 341-4216 | 1870 Miner Circle Voice: (573) 341-4841 | Rolla, MO 65409-0360 ===================================================================== Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 10:21:28 -0400 (EDT) From: "Aanakin Skywalker (Dan Szemenyei)" <iamelvis at esu.edu> Subject: lactose & choc. syrup at bottling Hi all, quick question. I brewed a coffee stout. I want a little more sweetness. Can I add lactose with my priming DME for bottling? Will DME give me enough residual sweetness? Is chocolate syrup a good idea? Thanks a million! Dan Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 10:29:23 -0400 From: "David R. Burley" <Dave_Burley at compuserve.com> Subject: Refractometers, Electric Boil, Clear Wave Brewsters: Harlan Bauer asks about simple quality control of fermentation progress in a microbrewery (congrats on the new job Harlan). He has had poor success with using a hydrometer because of dissolved CO2 in the beer and doesn't want to degas a large quantity of beer for this measurement. Rather than spring for a refractometer , which has the same problem on a smaller scale, try taking a sample of beer and diluting it ( say 2 drops of beer in 8 drops of water) and then use this diluted sample with a Clinitest Kit from the Pharmacy. It is a lot cheaper ( $14 versus $3500) and doesn't require excessive cleaning, doesn't stick together if you forget to clean it and if you drop it, all you need is a new testube, at most. It is fast and will probably give you the indication you want, to the accuracy you need. Near the end of the fermentation, dilution is not necessary. Typically a reading of less than 1/4% glucose will tell you that the fermentation is finished. - -------------------------------------------------- Bill Goodman asks about boiling on an electric stove. First, do not buy a large kettle for a boiler. Buy two cheap 4 gallon SS boilers. It is much easier to handle and boil these than a large kettle. Secondly, I control the boil rate and reduce oxidation during the boil by having the lid partially (80%) on the kettle. this limits the circulation of air over the surface of the boil and gives a higher velocity to the steam, so that air is excluded. Allow the kettle to come to a boil without the lid and then after the foam has died down, slide the lid on almost completely, so that a steady, rolling boil occurs. Cheaper and easier, controllable and your beer has much lower color and oxidation than if done in a large kettle with the top open. - --------------------------------------------- Harry Bush wants to know how this works and says: >For the past couple of years, I've been seeing a product called "Clear >Wave" being marketed (it has already made the run from the "Brookstone" >to >"Damark" catalogs) as an alternative to water softening, particularly >claiming to reduce mineral buildup in pipes. >From what I can see from the picture, the Clear Wave installs around >your >incoming water pipe and your house water passes through a magnetic field >(ac?, dc?, frequency?) before going to your faucet. Well, Harry, I've been trying to figure out how to take these guys and those that sell the "pest chaser" to court so I can make some real money from their fraudulent activities. Sort of a private "sting". I just can't figure out how to do it. I guess the fact that this device has fallen from the Brookstone to the Damark Catalog which basically sells junk and items which others do not want, tells you that Americans are smarter than most other Americans give them credit for. It doesn't work. If it did, you would have a pile of minerals in the pipe at the Clear Wave site, since it is the minerals in the water which make it hard.. If you want to improve your water, do buy the Reverse Osmosis unit which Home Depot has for about $150 -200. As far as the magnetic belt helping back pain, copper bracelets or other medical cures, appearance of the Virgin Mary, UFO's, etc., never believe anecdotal evidence even if your non-scientifically trained ( that's why they call it "practice") doctor tells you so. It may be that some people got the belt and it worked, but then again any belt may have helped, maybe just believing was enough. Like they say YMMV, but don't let this be an excuse to believe in fake stuff. Always ask to see the non-anecdotal, scientifically developed data. If if can't be produced, remain sceptical. If you don't believe me, I have some engine oil and gasoline additives, a special sparkplug and a carburetor to sell you. I used them on my car. The oil additive saved 45% on gas used, the gas additive 25%, the sparkplugs 50% and the carburetor 30%. I drove ten miles and my gasoline tank overflowed! Keep on brewin' Dave Burley Kinnelon, NJ 07405 103164.3202 at compuserve.com Dave_Burley at compuserve.com Voice e-mail OK Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 09:35:32 -0500 From: ThE GrEaT BrEwHoLiO <skotrat at wwa.com> Subject: Re: Maris Otter/lot numbers The Al Wrote: >Lately, many people have been mis-using (and mis-spelling) "Maris Otter." >This is a barley *strain* and *MANY* maltsters make malt from it. Marris [sic] >Otter couldn't send malt to the US any more than Klages or Harrington could >send malt to England. Well, I guess I should just plain stop posting at 2am anfter coding PERL, COLD FUSION and HTML while enjoying a couple Barley Wines. I was aware that Marrrrrus Otter (just couldn't resist that AL) is a strain and not the maltster and just assumed (I know I know) that people would know what the hell I was babbling about. The following English maltsters are the ones I have used in the last 1 1/2 years that I have had problems with: Hugh Baird, Muntons, Crisp Crisp seems to be the biggest culprit of poorly malted Maris Otter lately and Muntons has seemingly out performed the Hugh Baird which was until the last year one of my favorite British Malts. I am wondering if anyone else has had problems with any of these and if there is any sort of action we could take to make these maltsters get back to where they were a few years ago... Or, are they just sending the U.S. their crappy stock and keeping the good stuff for them selves? Then again... Maybe the British Malts simply don't like me brewing in my PLAID!!! and playing me Bagpipes.. Who knows -Scott Abene Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 10:49:33 +0000 From: "Jim Busch" <jim at victorybeer.com> Subject: Altbier attenuation Al asserted that he was not so sure that Altbiers, and Zum Uerige in particular, are highly attenuated. Im not making this up as it is clearly labeled on the bottle I bought last Sept, I believe the original gravity or stammwuerzen (sp?) is 11.5-11.7P and it achieves an ABV right around 4.8-5%. This is from my hellerbock clouded memory but I did the math awhile ago and it was around 79-81% ADA, which seemed to match Daniels numbers too. Just goest to show my point again, malty full beers can be well attenuated. Prost! Jim Busch Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 09:46:43 -0500 From: "Brian J. Paszkiet" <bpaszkie at ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> Subject: re:Full volume boils on an electric stove? Bill Goodman said: I have a few questions for anyone who's successfully done full volume boils on an electric stove: (1) How do I achieve a rapid boil? Does laying the pot across two elements do the trick? Yes, this does work very well for me, although I use one of those 8.25 gallon ceramic-on-steel pots that is very wide. It fits perfectly over 2 burners (one large, one small). With both burners set on high, I can achieve a rolling boil. (3) What should my start and finish volumes be for a 5 gallon batch? I can't imagine too much evaporation taking place in a 60-90 minute boil on an electric stove, and want to end up with 5 gallons wort in the fermenter after leaving trub and spent hops behind. In a 75 min. boil I get nearly 1.5 gallons lost to evaporation with a 7 gallon starting volume. YMMV of course. Hope this helps, Brian Paszkiet Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 09:52:30 -0500 (CDT) From: Samuel Mize <smize at prime.imagin.net> Subject: Electric stove; fire in the hole (ouch!); hydromefractometry Greetings to all, and especially to: > From: Bill Goodman <goodman at APWK01G1.nws.noaa.gov> > Subject: Full volume boils on an electric stove? > > I have a few questions for anyone who's successfully done full volume > boils on an electric stove: That would be me. > (1) How do I achieve a rapid boil? Does laying the pot across two > elements do the trick? It's about all you can do. Results will depend on your particular stove. I can maintain a gently rolling boil with the elements backed off just a little from full blast. If your stove can't reach and maintain a boil with two burners, you'll have to move up to thermite. > (2) Would so-called "canning elements" (elements which are raised about > an inch off the stove top) help increase efficiency? If so, where can I > find them, and what do they cost? So I hear, but I haven't gone out and found them -- haven't needed to. Check under "appliances - parts" in the Yellow Pages. Until or unless you get them, you want to raise the pot a little OFF the elements. This will do two things: 1) Reduce risk of wort caramelizing/burning on the kettle bottom. 2) Greatly extend the life of your elements. They are designed to cool themselves by convection. It stresses them to put a great huge pot on top of them, which cuts off much of the convective airflow, and then run the element full blast for over an hour. You can get a "heat tamer" at some kitchen goods stores. Or, you can bend and unvarnished coat hanger into a V shape, and put that between the element and the pot. Or, you can put something beside the burner for the pot to rest on, holding it up maybe 1/8 to 1/4 inch off the element. I used to use canning-jar rings; I now use a couple of pieces of wood that I cut to the right size. > (3) What should my start and finish volumes be for a 5 gallon batch? Beats the heck out of me, I don't know your particular stove and pot. You may lose about 1/2 gallon; you may lose about 1 1/2 gallons. You'll have to test your own system and find out. If you're using extract, start with 5 1/2 gallons the first time. You'll almost certainly lose 1/2 gallon to boil and trub. Then top up to five gallons with boiled water, and see how much more you needed -- add it to the boil next time. With my stove/pot/habits, I boil off a little over a gallon. - ------------------------------ > From: Rick Olivo <ashpress at win.bright.net> > Subject: Condom oxygenators > > Don't worry about exploding condoms. The lubricant is always water based. > Condoms, being made of latex, Is latex flammable in a high-oxygen environment? I'm not sure I'd be real comfortable about using any organic to contain a bubble of oxygen. No hard data here, just conjecture. Cosmonaut Valentin Bondarenko and the Apollo 3 crew (Grissom, Chaffee, and Young) were killed when things that don't ordinarily burn well, or at all, caught fire in high-oxygen environments. - ------------------------------ > From: blacksab at midwest.net (Harlan Bauer) > Subject: Hydrometers and refractometers > First of all, when we take a reading during the first few days of a > fermentation, the dissolved CO2 gives erroneous readings. Couldn't you drive out the CO2 by heating the sample? Or just let it sit for an hour and go flat. Is that what you mean by: > if I have to decarbonate ~300-mL of wort from 4 > fermenters every day, it might start feeling like a job. I don't understand why it's a hassle, unless you're decarbonating it by shaking it -- that would be a bit of work. Best, Sam Mize - -- Samuel Mize -- smize at imagin.net (home email) -- Team Ada Fight Spam - see http://www.cauce.org/ Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 19 Apr 1998 02:50:55 -0500 From: Dana Edgell <edgell at quantum-net.com> Subject: Al tubing & Caddo brewery in Shreveport HBD, I recently posted a question about using Al tubing in a jockey box. I received no major warnings so I went ahead and built one. I thought I would share what I have learned with the HBD. First, of all the required length of tubing: as the beer was to be at room temp it would require about 30psi to carbonate properly. To dispense at this pressure without excessive foaming requires a balancing constriction/resistance from the tubing. I originally tried only 10 ft and got all foam. I added a second coil and everything poured fine. BOTTOM LINE: 20 ft total of 1/4" o.d. tubing resulted in for a proper pour Second, I found that the beer developed a very bad taste when I used the Al tubing. The beer in the keg was fine and after sucking on a piece of Al tubing I am sure the taste came from the aluminum. I ran several gallons of detergent water, then several gallons of idophor solution and finally several gallons of rinse water all through the coils. The taste was reduced but not gone! The next day I ran detergent water through the coils for over eight hours! It wasn't that much work as I simply recycled a big bucket every half hour. Finally, (after rinsing) the beer no longer developes any aluminum taste. BOTTOM LINE: be prepared to rinse the Al tubing a long time. - ---- One totally unrelated question: Does anyone have any information (address etc.) about the Caddo Brewery that is aledgedly being built in Shreveport LA? Thanks, Dana Edgell - --------------------------------------------------------- Dana Edgell edgell at quantum-net.com Edge Ale Brewery http://www.quantum-net.com/edge_ale San Diego home of the Water Treatment Workpage Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 08:38:08 PDT From: "Fuggles McFirkin" <humulus at hotmail.com> Subject: Clear Wave Harry Bush asks about Clear Wave, a product which purportedly softens water. Products such as this are hoaxes, the only thing they will remove is dollars from your wallet. These devices have never been shown to have any effect on water, which is not surprising, since there is no coherent scientific explanation for how they could possibly work. The scientific-sounding mumbo-jumbo the salesmen spew ("They create a reverse-biased tachyon field which synchronizes with the harmonic frequency in order to reverse the polarity of the ion's hyperparabolic field energy! Honest!") is meant to confuse you, not to provide an explanation. In short, these devices do nothing to affect your water, nor will they affect your beer. Save your money for a REAL water treatment, if indeed you need one at all. What about your doctor's comments relative to the magnetic belt? Do they actually work? Well, the intersting thing about the human body is that it is greatly affected by the human mind. So, if a person believes that such and such a device will reduce his pain, then it is very possible that the device actually WILL reduce his perception of pain, even if the device is not directlly affecting his body in any way. Heck, you could replace the magnets with beer nuts, and the device would be just as effective. It's what you believe that enables such a product to work, not what the device actually does. Water, on the other hand, is not controlled by a brain, and thus is not affected in the least by such things. Kelly Hillsboro, OR ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 10:09:51 -0600 (CST) From: Stephen Ross <ross at lights.com> Subject: electric stove boiling Hi brewers, In Homebrew Digest #2695 (April 23, 1998) Bill Goodman asks about full volume boils on an electric stove. Until I bought my jumbo propane cooker, which I love dearly, even if it does make a gonging noise when my wife throws it off the bed (cheers, Pat!), I did my full volume boils on an apartment sized electric stove with only one large burner. I found I was able to bring the wort to a boil in 40 minutes, but I was only able to maintain the boil if it was partially covered. Here's what helped: tinfoil covered stove top - I don't know that it helped with efficiency that much, but it sure helped with clean-up. Partially covered pots seem more likely to boil over. pot spanned most of the large burner, and 2/3 of a small burner - I kept both burners on high until boil, then switched them to 90%. The uneven heat kept the wort swirling, I didn't have much problem with caramelization. I keep the pot covered until start of boil, then keep it 2/3 covered. I tried starting the boil with the initial run-off, then adding the later sparge, but it didn't make that much difference, and was a real hassle. It also interfered with FWH. The 40 minutes to bring to a boil was just enough time to pour a beer, write up my brew log, check the starter, sanitize the primary, and clean the kitchen of grain, scales, lauter tuns, and other brewing detritus. I allowed 25 quarts for 20 quarts to end up in my keg, but hardly any of that extra 5 quarts is evaporate. YMMV if you don't have to keep your pot 2/3 covered, and if you can achieve a more vigorous boil. I lose about 1.5 quarts in a 90 minute boil, and because of the not-so-great hotbreak coagulation, at least 2 quarts in slurry at the bottom of the pot. I imagine I will return to kitchen brewing in the cold season, and will be using the teeny stove again. It works fine. may your kegs always be full, Stephen Ross Saskatoon SK Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 11:23:23 -0500 From: Jason Hartzler <jehartzl at rs6000.cmp.ilstu.edu> Subject: apple cider hbd, anyone ever make any type of beer,wine,mead,or whatever with apple cider or apple juice which ended up with the apple flavor. i would appreciate anyones experience on this topic or a direction to any writings on the subject. thanks, jeh Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 09:43:57 +0000 From: "Glenn Tinseth" <glenn at terrapacific.com> Subject: Re: Tinseth BU equations There seems to be some worry about whether to use pre-boil wort volume, average wort volume (taken over the entire boil) or final wort volume in the equations I put together for estimating BUs in a brew. As I told Fred in our email exchanges, it doesn't really matter. Here's an excerpt from our eamil discussion: ========== "Unfortunately, the data came from many different sources, including my own analyses, published industry data, Oregon State Univ. sensory perception data, and insider info from different west coast micros (Sierra Nevada, etc). To top it off, there was no standard reporting of volume, some reported initial, some final, some didn't specify which. To reiterate what I mentioned in my previous post, my equations may give you good absolute numbers, but the chances are slim. Factors that aren't considered include kettle geometry, boil vigor, initial hop concentration, mixing during boil, pH of boil, how do you count cooling time and do you use counter flow or immersion chilling, the list goes on and on. My goal was to give brewers a set of equations which they could modify to match their specific brewery, but even if the equations are used "stock," they will give a very good relative prediction of BU values, as long as they are used consistently. If you want accurate absolute BU prediction, you will probably have to modify one or more of the factors to make the curves match your sample data." ========== Since the data represent an average of many different breweries and brewing methodologies, the best we can hope for is a good starting point and a good relative measure of changes in BUs. If you re-do the equations with a different (just as imaginary) wort volume number, it will improve the equations ability to predict absolute BUs for *some* breweries and lessen it for others. The intent behind my equations is not to give an absolute number -- that's impossible due to the wide variety of breweries out there. I will repeat what I said above, if you want absolute numbers, you have to get a large number of samples analyzed and either modify the various factors in my equations or develop your own. Then you will have equations that predict your BUs very well but will probably not work well for other breweries. I welcome further correspondance on this issue, either in the digest or via email, Glenn - ------------ Glenn Tinseth Corvallis, OR, USA email: glenn at terrapacific.com Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 10:22:35 -0700 From: "Anderson, Vance" <Anderson at dmea.osd.mil> Subject: Corny Keg Source I've seen a couple posts regarding brewers looking for kegs in N. Cal. And decided to come out of lurker status to share a local source. RCB equipment in the Sacramento, CA area is currently advertising a special price on 5 gal corny kegs at $11.50 each. I have not yet contacted them but will likely do so in the near future. No affiliation, blah, blah, blah. RCB Fermentation Equipment 916-723-8859 RCB at JPS.net http://www.rcbequip.com/ Vance in Auburn, CA Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 13:38:46 -0700 From: George_De_Piro at berlex.com Subject: Protein content of malt Hi all, I have read that it is best to use low-protein barley for malt production. One of the things that bothers some people about modern Munich and Vienna malts is the fact that they are often made with higher protein barley than Pilsner malt. I know that George Fix has written about this a bit. I asked about this at Siebel, and was told that higher protein malt is *purposely* used in the making of the melanoidin-rich malts because they want to maximize (to a point) the concentrations of Maillard reactants (amino acids and sugars). This struck me as odd at the time; how much of a difference to the Maillard reactions will 1-2% total nitrogen be? Then I read the same thing in Kunze! OK, so now I have two sources telling me that higher protein barley is more suitable for Munich malt production than the lower protein barley used for Pilsner malts. Anybody out there have opposing/supporting views? Dr. Fix? Mort at H-W? Have fun! George De Piro (Nyack, NY) Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 98 14:33:31 EST From: SBireley at renex.com Subject: Cellarmanship and Long Term Storage I am building a two compartment beer refrigerator to lager, age and serve beer from the components of standard kitchen refrigerator. My design goal is to have a compartment for Lagering at about 32 Deg., one for serving beer at 45 deg. Each compartment will be controlled with a thermocouple temperature controller venting cold air from the lagering compartment which contains the freezer element. I plan to have room for 4 kegs at serving temperature and 4 at lagering temperature. I may split the serving compartment to allow for cold beer and cool beer. My questions to the collective concern proper cellarmanship of various beer styles and the effect of long term storage at certain temperatures. 1. Will lagers be adversely or positively affected by storing them at lagering temperatures for months, or should they be stored at serving temperature after lagering? 2. Will ales be adversely or positively affected by storing them at lagering temperatures for extended periods. I want to use the lagering compartment for overflow storage if the serving compartment is full. Any help or comments are appreciated. Steve Bireley One must take good care of good beer. Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 14:40:05 -0400 From: "Lee C. Carpenter" <lee at brew-master.com> Subject: Antique Guinness I recently obtained a 6 1/3 ounce bottle of Guinness Foreign Extra Stout which I believe to be in the neighborhood of 60 years old. Does anyone know where I can trace the number to find out for sure? I can't find it on the web. The bottle number is: L/43 103836. It is dark green glass and has G.F. Heublein and Bro. as the importer. (Hartford, CT). I'd appreciate any help. Lee C. Carpenter Meadow Creek Brewing Landisville, PA lee at brew-master.com Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 15:10:28 -0500 (CDT) From: Al Korzonas <korz at xnet.com> Subject: Styrian Goldings Dave writes: >Styrian Golding is actually Fuggles. Yes, this has been known for ages, but the fact remains that Sean is right... Styrian Goldings are very similar to Kent Goldings in terms of aroma and flavour and they don't have that citrusy character (which is nice, but a touch un-Kentish) that Oregon or Washington State Goldings have. If you don't believe me, buy some and compare Fuggles, East Kent Goldings and Styrian Goldings side-by-side. I'm willing to bet that the Styrians will be much more EKG-like than Fuggle-like. In fact, the defining characters of EKG (resiny and candylike aromas) are *more intense* in the Stryian Goldings, in my experience. Al. Al Korzonas, Palos Hills, IL korz at xnet.com http://www.brewinfo.com/brewinfo/ Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 13:10:55 -0700 (PDT) From: homebrew at dcn.davis.ca.us (Sean Mick) Subject: Re: Styrian Golding Dave Burley correctly brought to the forum that Styrian Goldings are in fact English Fuggles transplanted to Europe and mislabeled as "Golding" pedigree. My point, however, was that Styrian Goldings seem to have more sensory similarities to East Kent Goldings than Yakima Goldings do. This was my opinion, not based on chemical analysis. I was aware of the BT article and the mislabeling of Styrian Goldings when I wrote the post. I do thank Dave for bringing this up; I did not intend to give anyone the impression that Styrian Goldings were of the same rootstock as East Kent Goldings. That's why I cited a few books and websites for further reading. Brew On! Sean Mick Mick's Homebrew Supplies http://www.dcn.davis.ca.us/~homebrew Return to table of contents
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