---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com


Contents:
  Big Brew '98/ AHA 20th Anniversary Party! ("Rob Moline")
  A Stout by any other name. ("S. Wesley")
  Temp sensors (Louis Bonham)
  Grande Prairie Alberta readers, or drivers of the ALCAN Highway (Clifton Moore)
  Beer police (Al Korzonas)
  Big Brew '98- Sign Off From Mission Control ("Rob Moline")
  SG/Refractometer ("David R. Burley")
  correction (Al Korzonas)
  Re: Quick loss of aroma (Christopher J Redlack)
  Cheap Burner (Rick Olivo)
  DAP foam meltdown (Sharon/Dan Ritter)
  Big Brew '98 (KennyEddy)
  Zinc/Inversion (AJ)


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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 21:28:49 -0500
From: "Rob Moline" <brewer at ames.net>
Subject: Big Brew '98/ AHA 20th Anniversary Party!

Greetings! Take me to your Babcock, Brewers!

    Well, Here I am  at  the 20th Anniversary Party for the AHA  at  the
Association of Brewers building in Boulder. Thought I would get a few of the
attendees to say "Hello!"

    Hi, this is Norm Pyle.  It's been waaaay too long since I posted to the
HBD.  I'm
    having a great time here at the AHA's party.  Brian "Rawhide" Rezac
deserves all
    the credit, of course.  I've tasted a Belgian Strong, a Brown Porter, an
IPA, a
    Belgian Wheat, an American Pale Ale, and a couple of others I can't
remember.
    I do remember that they were all shockingly good beers.  Homebrewing has
come
    a very long way since I started brewing 8 years ago.  Some of the REAL
old timers
    must be even more amazed.  I know I am.  I hope all is well in
cybeer-space and I
    wish you all great brews.
    Cheers,
    Norm

    To all beer lovers,
    If you have never been to a homebrewers' event, or never "hung out" with
    a homebrew crowd, do it immediately, it is good for your soul.  You will
meet people
    and try beers that are far out of your everyday experiences.  The
experience will
    leave you with an aire of satisfaction that is seldom found.  To all
those who have,
    CHEERS!
    Evangelos Gletsos

HBD
Hello to the world of home brew. This is one event that lights the soul of
the home brewer.  Not every one can say that they were there, but I can  say
that I was and it was a experience bordering on a far eastern religious
experience.
Thank you AHA,
Richard Urie

    I had an excellent time at the event. it was truely an enlightening beer
experience.
 many thanks, jon rose
AHA

    HAPPY MAY DAY,  WERE HERE AT THE AHA ! THERES LOTS OF DIFFERENT BEERS
HERE BUT I'VE GOT THE ONLY SPRINGFEST!  HELLO TO MY FREINDS IN K.C.  PROST ,
JIM "FREETIME" MOORE

Happy Homebrew Day!!
Jim Homer

    Hello everyone in the brewing community it has been a real blast to try
all of the variety of beer and information, everyone in the hobby should get
together and share all they have learned and all they know with the general
populas, so we spread the cause to all who want to learn and enjoy.
    So much for the soap box,
 have more beer.
Donna Geithman former Pres of the Keg Ran Out Club\\

Nach after kommt Dativ!
Huuh, huuh, hee, hee, hee, hee!

Boo! Reini (non-professional occasional homebrewer and weirdo)


    Where is this thing ... Ahhhh, I must find this thing rather quickly cuz
I dranked too
much. Too Much? Who? - Yo (Astrophysics Graduate Student)

    What a great time!  National Homebrew Day is really international. My
friends attending, who are also homebrewers are from Turkey, Germany and
France. Its wonderful and tonight we're going to the theatre to hear Mozart!
Cheers
Mark Snyder
Association of Brewers

    I cannot think any serious thought, because I am german. But is not as
bad as you might think about us. So well I'm going to leave now for another
date. I enjoyed staying here.
Tschuess Tina

    Okay, for any of you not here, you're missing one of the great events of
the year. National Homebrewers Day should be celebrated by everyone who
loves beer and loves life. We have a unique collection of individuals here,
and you should be here yourself. I hope that all of you who love our
industry and hobby will try and make an appearance next year. You won't be
disappointed for being here. Cheers, angoodbbeer to all. Remember, the more
you know about beer, the more you need to know about beer. See you next
year, I hope.
Cheers,
Richard Backus
Editor/The New Brewer

    The Barking DOg Brewing Company was here.... 4 strong; enjoyed mead,
beer, ale, and all the fixin's. Best to the world..

    What a great time.  Hope you can make it here next year.  Good beer,
great friends, and my kids were here too.  Next year, Norm Peterson's Ale.
Gary Gutowski

    Great beer!  Great food!  Great people!  As an intermediate home brewer
I learned more today than in the last year.  "Theresa's Closet" was my
favorite.
Mike Connor

    Let me tell you, it has been a while since I have brewed, and IT FELT
GOOD! The only problem was, I never wrote down the ingredients to "Theresa's
Closet"! What the hell was I thinking? Have I learned nothing? It was kind
of a "seat of your pants " Grand Cru, but most folks seemed to like it.
Scott Voss-IBS Administrator

    A fine afternoon on the roof of the IBS.  Tasty brews and weird
people(Scott Voss).
Dick Doore - Left Hand Brewing Company, Janitor

        (Rob's edit...Dick is a GABF multi award winner and owner of Left
Hand...)

    Well, it looks like this party is just about over.  It's been a hell of
a lot of fun, but right now, I'm exhausted and Rob and I still have to grab
dinner (and several more beers), get to bed and get up early for the
coordination of Big Brew '98 tomorrow.  But this is what National Homebrew
Day is all about, simply getting together with other brewers and sampling
the fruits of our labor.  I hope all of you can celebrate this day with
brewers in your circles.  Meanwhile, I'm "stuck" with Rob.
 -  Brian Rezac, AHA

    Hi, my name is Liz and I left the party for a while, but now I'm back.
I was asked to write a quick quip so here it is.  First, I am the warehouse
queen. (For the Association of Brewers...Rob)  Second, long live good beer.
We should all feel lucky to have such good beer to drink.  Third, long live
Jerry Garcia and the Grateful Dead.  Fourth, if you ever get a chance, go to
a widespread panic show.  Peace to all who read this and have a great
summer.

    Hi! My name is Erin.  I'm Brian Rezac's daughter. We're having fun here!
Bye!

    Ah yes, another fine evening in Boulder on the deck here just off of
Pearl Street...once the weather cleared up. Anyway, name is Keith
Morrison.... lucky guest of Liz (the warehouse queen) and fan of all tasty
homebrews. You see what you missed? Had you been here you could have been
sending this instead of reading this. Ah...springtime in the rockies...gotta
love it! Peace....K-
Keith Morrison.
Quality Assurance Manager of all Beers

    Hi my name is Caitlin Rezac , Brian Rezac's other daughter.  You don't
know  what you've missed.   There's great food, and bear!  (ofcoarse I don't
drink the bear but some parents like it. Bye!

Rob again.....
    Anyhoo....It has been a great party, and I'm quite looking forward to
tomorrows event...I'm sorry I didn't think of doing this message in time to
get the Papazians, etc to say hello...but them's the breaks!!
    Knowing that there is quite a lag between submission and publication,
this may not get out for some time, but I want to state my gratitude to the
AHA and especially to the 101 registered sites that are participating in Big
Brew.. The fact that there are so many homebrewers and even some commercial
brewers participating in this event is truly wonderful. Good Brewing to All
of You!
Jethro Gump

Rob Moline
On Loan To The American Homebrewer's Association,
"Big Brew '98"
Boulder, Colorado.
>From The
Court Avenue Brewing Company,
Des Moines, Iowa.
brewer at ames.net

"The More I Know About Beer, The More I Realize I Need To Know More About
Beer!"










Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 02 May 1998 08:55:08 -0700
From: "S. Wesley" <Wesley at maine.maine.edu>
Subject: A Stout by any other name.

Hi Folks,
	It has been interesting to read the comments of various 
contributors regarding the distinction between stout and porter. The 
heart of the debate is the concept of beer style.  I would argue that 
Lewis is quite correct in simply calling them both black beer for the 
simple reason that the whole concept of style regional or otherwise is 
outdated and dying.  Many of the historical beer styles are belived to 
have developed because of conditions associated with the water, climate 
and brewing materials availible in a particular location.  Nowadays 
breweries in any part of the world can essentially brew any style of 
beer and often brew beers which do not lie within the limits of any set 
of Guidelines of style whether Eckardt's or the AHA's.  The only real 
utility in style having style standards is providing criteria for 
judging beer in contests.  In commercial examples they usually only 
communicate the vaguest information to the consumer about what he or she 
is buying. 
	With regards to stout and porter I think it is also important to 
keep in mind that these styles had virtually died out 30 years ago with 
only a handful of commercial examples remaining in the UK itself.  The 
resurection of the styles has been largely based on brewer's 
interpretation of descriptions they have read in a book.  This lack of 
genuine historical continuity also lends to the confusion about the 
meaning of the style. 
	The meaning of the term porter has never been static. It has 
evolved since it was originally minted in the early 1700's just as the 
english language has evolved.  The reason it evolved is that the type of 
beer sold by the commercial brewers who used the name changed. In a 
sense one could argue that the meaning of this or any style is (or 
rather was) the amalgam of all the beers sold by different commercial 
brewers under the style name.  The standard of the name was essentially 
enforced by the regional beer drinkers who regularly consume the style. 
Unfortunately this no longer works most of the time in america as anyone 
who brings home a mixed six of american craft brewed porters can attest.
Part of the reason for this is the separtaion in time and space from 
the points where the style names originated and the complete lack 
(especially in america) of a continuous body of consumers of a style who 
moniter the use of the name.
	If style is dying what will follow?  That will depend both on 
what brewers market and consumers buy.  Clearly the use of historical 
style names will continue to be a useful marketing tool to lend a 
particular aura to beers even if it does not really tell us much about 
the beer we are getting by reading the label.  One trend in beer 
labeling which I hope will become more widespread is the presence of 
information about the beer's profile such as the estimated bitterness 
measured in IBU.  I would like to see american craft brewers adopt a 
beer profile label which could include information about bitterness, OG, 
FG (A nifty way of ducking laws which prohibit labeling alcohol content) 
color, body, etc.. 
			Regards,
			
			Simon A. Wesley

			Pounding pints of porter by the Penobscot


Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 02 May 1998 09:51:58 -0500
From: Louis Bonham <lkbonham at phoenix.net>
Subject: Temp sensors

Ian asked:

> Does anyone measure temperature (RIMS etc) with a resistive temperature
> device (RTD) ? I need a circuit that can convert 100 to 138 ohms (0 to
> 100 deg C) to 0 to 5 volts so I can read the temp with a computer.

Skip the RTD's -- there are cheap semiconductor sensors like the National
Semiconductor LM 135, LM 235, LM 335, etc., that generate a linear output of 10
millivolts per degree Kelvin.  Ergo, these will generate a 2-4 volt signal in
the range you'll be typically measuring.

Plus even the most expensive of these are a fraction of the cost of an  RTD.
Check out DigiKey or similar places; they're available mail order.

Louis K. Bonham



Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 02 May 1998 22:25:55 -0800
From: Clifton Moore <cmoore at gi.alaska.edu>
Subject: Grande Prairie Alberta readers, or drivers of the ALCAN Highway

My situation is this. 

There are 500 pounds of barley seed at the Sexsmith Seed Cleaning Coop 
in Peace River that I wish to have transported to me in Fairbanks
Alaska. 

In order for a freight transporter to pick it up, I am looking for a
transfer 
point in Grande Prairie. 

Have you any suggestions as to where such a transfer might take place? 
The lot consists of ten sacks of certified seed. 
The transfer point should be easy to find, and close to the through
road. 
It may need to sit for a day, as scheduling a close fit on the transfer
would 
be risky, so I would tend to have it delivered well in advance of the
trucks arrival. 

Of course, should there be a tourist with some extra room, this would be 
the preferred method. I would be happy to compensate them for the
trouble. 
The seed will be labeled as certified, and will be waved through at US
customs. 

The planting season is upon us, and the seed intended for this trial is
turning 
out to be less viable than hoped. I am not a farmer, but have arranged
to have this 
grown for me as my interests are in the malting process and the
resultant 
beverage product. 

Should you care to offer any suggestions as to how I might solve this
problem, 
I would like to hear them. 

If you have gotten this far and consider this a pile of email spam, then
I apologize. 
You should learn to quit reading sooner, and hit that delete button. 

Thank you for your time, 

Clifton Moore 
Cmoore at gi.alaska.edu


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Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 23:55:34 -0500 (CDT)
From: Al Korzonas <korz at xnet.com>
Subject: Beer police

Dave writes:
>Remember that the current definition of style as put
>forth by the BJCP is one of using *current* commercial
>beers and whatever the brewer wishes to call them as
>standards.

Not exactly.  The definitions of the styles as set for by the
BJCP are what the BJCP Beer Style Committee says they are.
We consider current commercial beers, historical commercial
beers, what homebrewers are doing with the style these days,
etc.  We *aren't* going to define every style so that *any*
commercial beer that happens to be called that particular
style will fit into that guideline.  Making the decisions
about which commercial styles need to stretch the guideline
and which we feel are unrepresentative of the style is
the most difficult part of the job.  No, it is *not* an exact
science (it's not a science at all!).  Yes, a small group
makes decisions that affect thousands.  No, we don't always
*all* agree.  Yes, it's difficult.

>I understand the necessity, but, like you, I
>find this to not be what I am looking for and
>so I have little patience for the beer police when I
>make what I like to drink and call it what I like.

Call it what you like... I'm not going to bust in wielding
a hydrometer and haul you off to beer jail if you brew
a 1.075 beer and call it an Ordinary Bitter.  However,
if you enter your 1.075 OG beer in a competition as an
Ordinary Bitter, you can be darn sure I'll score it
poorly.

>However, Lewis is consistent with this BJCP position
>of defining style.         

I have only skimmed the Lewis Book... I've not finished
other books that are earlier in the series!  However,
if what the others that have posted on this are correct,
I would say that Lewis took the easy way out.  It is
much more difficult to say: the guidelines are x, y and
z.  Beers a, b and c are good examples of the style and
d, e and f are poor examples of the style.  In the
BJCP Beer Style Committee, we *have* to do this because
we *must* have guidelines to hold competitions.

I, personally, have a difficult time explaining to someone
what the difference between a Porter and a Stout is.
I have often been asked that question.  I usually start
with the history (as I have read it), then explain the
AHA and BJCP guidelines and then, if the person is not
bored yet, I'll wave my hands and give my opinion on
it... which is different every time you ask me.  Thank
God we have guidelines and I don't have to go by my
opinion when I judge!  The beer that won would be the
one that happens to have fit my fancy that day.

Imagine if all the guidelines were so loose that
likeability was the defining factor to winning the
competition.  Think of it like chess... yes, you could
play against someone in a match where you agreed that
the knight moved diagonally, but if you did not agree
in advance how all the pieces moved, you could not
have a match, could you?  Guidelines are just the
rules, in advance, so the judges and the entrants
are playing  by the same rules.


Al.

Al Korzonas, Palos Hills, IL
korz at xnet.com
http://www.brewinfo.com/brewinfo/

P.S. Just about to finish my Big Brew `98 batches... Yes, I did
start at 1 CDT!  It looks like I will have brewed 20 gallons of
1.096 Barleywine.


Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 22:57:39 -0500
From: "Rob Moline" <brewer at ames.net>
Subject:  Big Brew '98- Sign Off From Mission Control

Big Brew '98....
    Well the event is over,  at  least here....Brian, Jim Homer, Curt
Schroeder and I are  at  the Overland Stagestop Brewery in Longmont, having  a
few brews and some dinner...Richie Backus just left a few moments ago...
    The event went well, though not as well as it will run next year, of
course! We had 102 registered sites, from sites that brewed 3 gallons to
sites that had 407 gallons, with 68 being Big 10/20! Wow!
    Anyhoo, I want the other fellas to jot down a few words, so, I'll turn
it over to them.....

    I  had a great time, helping Brew the beer at the AHA site. We ended up
with about 9 gallons at 1.108.
   Jim Homer
- -------------------------------------------------
glug, gurgle, glip, gloop..... Oh, I'm sorry.  I was in the middle of
drinking a beer when they passed the computer to me.  As Rob pointed out,
Big Brew '98 is history.  We are all exhausted, but extremely happy with the
turnout and all the effort that everyone put in to Big Brew.

Thanks to all who participated.  It's important that we get together as a
homebrewing community.  We need to do it more often.
                                           -  Brian Rezac, AHA-Big Brew
Mission Control
- ----------------------------------------------------
Well I think I emptied my magazine of beer bullets!  Thought I earned some
back with the post hole digging but apparently not.  Great AHA party!  Great
Monster Brew Party at the Hanging Ten Ranch where the Tribe (High Altititude
Brewers)did the Big 10/20 (Thanks to Leif Washington for a great bash).
Gotta get home, gotta usher at church tommorrow morning.
                            -   Curt Schroeder, Operation Hypoxia Commando

    So, in retro, it's been a great event....102 sites,  not a bad effort
for a first attempt! I would like to mention here that Brian has been up to
his ankles in alligators, 2ndary to the fact that Jim Parker, Director of
the AHA, has resigned his position to take one with a Colorado brewpub, and
had been gone for some time now. This means that Brian is actually doing 2
jobs  at  the same time as running the Big Brew.
    It is more than obvious to me that there are ways to improve the next
Big Brew, but that many of these ways became apparent during this years
event. Like the need for a Chat Room based  at  the AHA. We were fortunate that
the Aleraisers of Georgia let us into theirs, but the message that was twice
circulated to all the sites apparently wasn't seen by many of the sites, as
I'm sure they were brewing, and not able to keep an updated eye on the web.
    The repetition of messages to the Forum  at  AHA was an unexpected glitch
as well.
But you live and learn.....

    The best part of the whole event was being able to speak with a few of
the sites participants directly, on the phone. Brian would call up a site  at 
random, and he would chat with them, and sometimes I would also get an
opportunity to say hello as well.
    The enthusiasm in the voices of the brewers I spoke to was infectious,
and I also was able to get in on speakerphone conversations with entire
groups....
    I  had this image in my head that I was talking with folks that were
right there with us  at  the AHA, exuding the same attitude that was palpable  at 
our site.....I truly felt that I was with you all...and except for the tales
and video images from the Aleraisers and others, who told and displayed
images of the awesome beers that they were using to honor that old homebrew
mantra, "Have a Homebrew While Brewing," I was very happy.
    It's a grand feeling to have been involved in this event...my only
remaining hope is that the brews that have been born today please you as
much as my Big 12 pleased me.


    Brewing is an honourable pursuit...I know that most, if not all of you
feel the same as I do....beer is not just something that I enjoy  at  the end
of a day's work...it is my identity, my pride, passion, and joy. To have
been involved in today's event is truly a milestone in my life in beer. I
want to thank each and every one of you that participated for being a part
of my beer world. I have gained more from you than you know.
    I thank you again.......


    Special honors do go to the financial sponsors of the Big
Brew...............Briess Malts, Lallemand Yeasts, and Schreier
Malts....also to Court Avenue Brewing that allowed me to take a few days
off, and provided some hats that Brian will be distributing ...

Jethro Gump
Signing off from Mission Control
Boulder, Colorado

Rob Moline
On Loan To The American Homebrewer's Association,
"Big Brew '98"
Boulder, Colorado.
>From The
Court Avenue Brewing Company,
Des Moines, Iowa.
brewer at ames.net

"The More I Know About Beer, The More I Realize I Need To Know More About
Beer!"




Return to table of contents


Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 07:32:14 -0400
From: "David R. Burley" <Dave_Burley at compuserve.com>
Subject: SG/Refractometer

Brewsters:

George Fix returns to the scene.  Welcome back.!

And says:

> Therefore, Burley, Walsh,
>et al should put away their torches and do a Pg Dn!

Frankly George, I don't remember either Andy or I ever flaming
you. Disagreeing with you, perhaps.

>Refractometry has for a long time been the method of
choice for gravity
>measurements in commercial brewing.

Yes for OG and stuff like that, equivalent to Brix meaurements
in grapegrowing ( very useful field measurements of  grape sugar
content) and winemaking, but is it used in the finished beer
or more pertinent to the original question - as the brew
is fermenting?

> A special feature of this method is that only a
>drop of solution is needed to get a gravity reading.

Or, more correctly, a refractive index which with the help of
tables can be converted approximately to a specific gravity.

>The alcohol interference is not random, so there is some
hope that 

>correction factors can be developed for  simple refractometers.......
>.However, the significant differences in fermenting
>(or fermented) wine must compared to beer wort leads
to errors on the
>order of 10-15% when used for beer. 


I suppose the major difference is that wine does not have a
zero base of unfermentable substances like proteins and
dextrins. Whereas this zero base for beer does severely
affect the results and most critically, the measurements will
be dependent on the mashing conditions and means you
will have to have a table for each set of ( known or unknown)
mashing conditions


>I came across some data that is alleged to be specific to
beer.I have
>used these ever since ....
>and find them to be within 1% of that
> obtained from high precision 

>equipment
>Notation:

      SG_R = specific gravity as measured by a refractometer ( a
             Cole Parmer unit)

       OG = original gravity of the wort before fermentation

       SG_A = actual specific gravity 

             



 SG_R           OG           SG_A
 - ---------     --------     -----------
1.020          1.040        1.018
               1.050        1.012
               1.060        1.007

1.024          1.040        1.020
               1.050        1.015
               1.060        1.009

1.028          1.040        1.022
               1.050        1.017 

               1.060        1.011

>Observe that SG_A is essentially a linear function of OG and SG_R
>(a point I find somewhat troubling). Moreover, the complete data set
>shares this feature. However, from a practical point of view the
>relationships appear to be within 1% of the actual ones.


George, in the method you propose, are we to understand
that a refractive index from the Cole-Palmer of the final beer,
in order to be used to estimate the final gravity of the beer,
you must also know the Original Gravity before you can use
this method? 


I look at this method and I see that we are using the refractive
index to estimate the specific gravity which itself is an
estimate of the sugar content and depends on the history
of the sample and I say "why?"

Maybe it is the chemist in me, But I just can't understand
why all this hoop jumping is going on to measure sugar
content of a solution using physical means ( a hydrometer
or refractometer) with all these errors ( especially with the
effect of alcohol!) as known facts, when a simple chemical
analysis that a non-chemist can run gives far superior
results. Why not measure the thing directly ( the sugar content)
that you want to know?? Alcohol content nor proteins nor most
dextrins do not interfere with the Fehling's Reagent based
Clinitest measurement of glucose.
- ----------------------------------------------------

Keep on brewin'


Dave Burley
Kinnelon, NJ 07405
103164.3202 at compuserve.com
Dave_Burley at compuserve.com  

Voice e-mail OK 


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Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 09:36:43 -0500 (CDT)
From: Al Korzonas <korz at xnet.com>
Subject: correction

Regarding that Big Brew `98, my final readings were:

Two 6-gallon carboys, four 3-gallon carboys... 21.6 gallons of 1.099 wort
made from 70# of Pale Ale malt and 20.5# of Crystal, 8oz each of Galena,
Cascade and Willamette hops... half the carboys pitched with Nottingham,
half with Windsor...

Ugh!  I took photos which I'll put on my website in a day or two (my darned
scanner driver is missing!).

Al.

P.S. I couldn't have done it (given my recently slipped disk... which seems
to have survived the ordeal) without the help of Ray Korzonas, my dad, who
did all the heavy lifting and most of the mash stirring...  Thanks Dad!


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Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 10:42:00 -0400
From: coolhandluke1 at juno.com (Christopher J Redlack)
Subject: Re: Quick loss of aroma

Fred L. Johnson states:

>I just reentered an American pale ale into a local competition that
>previously took 1st place in another local competition.  In the first
>competition, the comments that came back were, "Nice hops up front.",
"Nice
>hoppy aroma. Right on style.", and "Shouts HOPS!" from three judges,
>respectively.  This same beer when judged six weeks later scored 10
points
>lower with the following comments from the two judges, respectively,
>"Overall aroma & bouquet very low" and "Low hop aroma".

>I've only been brewing for  a year and a half and have never read that
aroma
>degenerates with time (and so quickly).  Would someone please explain
how
>this could be?

Hop aroma definitely degenerates over time. 6 weeks sounds pretty quick
but I'm sure it's possible. As a brewer of hoppy IPAs, I tend to notice
that my beers are usually at their prime about two months after kegging
and the aroma tends to degrade shortly there after (especially when
stored at room temperature). Take the Pepsi challenge, go to the store
and purchase the same hoppy  beer that has a large variance in bottling
dates and see if you can taste the difference.

More importantly how does your American Pale Ale taste to you? Do you
think the aroma has degenerated? Don't always believe the discrepancies
between two different panels of judges. I've had beers that have varied
14 points in separate competitions. Here's an example of one my
California commons:

 - Over chocalaty, burnt, hops done shine through (26)
 - A decent beer, but cut back on specialty malt and work on the hop
profile and it should do better (29)
 - Drinkable beer - could use more bittering hops - malt is ok (28)

Same beer in different competition two months later:

 - This is a good interpretation of style. I could drink this all day.
Good bitterness with appropriate hop flavor (41)
 - This is a very drinkable beer that is brewed to style. Very nice job!

Basically what I'm trying to say is that, the difference in
interpretation of two separate panels is not very scientific. There are
too many intangible variables to that come into play. I think that "you"
would probably be a better judge of whether or not your beer has lost any
of its hop aroma. 

Good luck,

Chris
Rockville, MD

"Shut up brain or I'll stab you w/ a Q-tip." - Homer


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Date: Sun, 03 May 1998 11:27:03 -0500
From: Rick Olivo <ashpress at win.bright.net>
Subject: Cheap Burner

Shopping tip for all you cheap (like me) Brewers. Menards is selling
Brinkmann 160,000 BTU burners with adjustable flame controls for $44; they
list at $90. Menards also has 20 Lb Propane tanks on sale at $20. Burner
units are cast iron and the frame welded steel. Finished in flat black.
Looks sturdy enough. (I stood on it in the store and did my best to bust a
weld. Nada, and I weigh 250 lbs.) It passes the Strange Brewer torture
test. We'll see how it holds up under my 8 gallon 30 pound ex-GI boil pots
and a full load of wort. No affilliation, yada, yada, yada, just an
impoverished brewer, with dreams of a three tier running through my head.

Rick Olivo, aka The Strange Brewer
ashpress at win.bright.net
Vitae sine Cervesae Sugat!!!
(Life without Beer SUCKS!!!)



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Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 14:03:43 -0600
From: Sharon/Dan Ritter <ritter at bitterroot.net>
Subject: DAP foam meltdown

A warning for anyone contemplating using DAP foam sealant in home brewing
applications:

I filled the empty space in the lid of my Gott cooler with DAP
foam-in-a-can sealant. This stuff is new and it is supposed to work better
than the original foam-in-a-can that expands for days and is impossible to
clean up. Unfortunately, when I brewed my first batch after sealing I
discovered that the stuff melts at mash temperatures. All that was left of
the foam in my lid was a milky mess. I don't think any of it dripped into
my Altbier mash but if it did I'll certainly be able to trace the off
flavor!

Has anyone had success using the original foam-in-a-can or does it also
melt at mash temperatures?


Dan Ritter <ritter at bitterroot.net>
Ritter's MAMMOTH Brewery - Hamilton, Montana




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Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 19:22:33 EDT
From: KennyEddy <KennyEddy at aol.com>
Subject: Big Brew '98

Just an invitation to check out Big Brew '98, El Paso style, at

http://members.aol.com/kennyeddy/BigBrew/bigbrew.html

*****
Ken Schwartz
El Paso, TX
KennyEddy at aol.com
http://members.aol.com/kennyeddy


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Date: Sun, 03 May 1998 21:05:14 -0400
From: AJ <ajdel at mindspring.com>
Subject: Zinc/Inversion

Ken Schwartz asked about zinc supplementation for brewing. Zinc is a
cofactor for several important enzymes but only the minutest quantities
are required. Malt supplies this trace element (and others). As I brewed
today I thought I'd try to get a data point. I did a Weizen using my
untreated well water which contains 0.023 mg/L zinc. The grist was
approximately one third DWC Pils and 2/3 DWC wheat. The wort measured
apoximately 0.20 mg/L Zn, most of which must has to have come from the
malts. The literature indicates that yeast want 0.08 to 0.2 mg/L
(depending on how much manganese is present) so with this grist, at
least, the malts supplied plenty.

When I saw the post yesterday  I analyzed my latest Pils which was made
with approximately 28% well water and the rest RO water meaning that the
mixture should have been approximately  0.006 mg/L. The beer contains
0.035 mg/L zinc.

The test I use (cyanide complex/cyclohexanone release/Zincon indicator)
does not measure organically bound zinc. Perhaps the beer is much lower
than the wort (though the grists for the two brews were very different)
because much of the zinc gets bound up with the yeast enzymes and
carried out when the yeast drop. I'll check the Weizen after
fermentation.

Anyway, the bottom line appears to be that the malt supplies enough zinc
though we would, of course, need to measure many more worts in order to
validate this thesis.

Ken also asked for comments from inverted chemists so I hope someone
from Oz will respond. Now I'm a perverted chemist (but not a real one)
so I'll make the statement that bees' pharyngeal glands secrete an
invertase and that the major sugar in nectar is sucrose which means
that indeed honey is  invert sugar and is suitable for use in recipes
calling for invert sugar except where the flavors and aromas of honey
are not desired.



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