HOMEBREW Digest #2724 Wed 27 May 1998

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		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com

  weavil (JohanNico)" <JohanNico.Aikema at akzonobel.com>
  Wort souring for p-Lambic ("Steven Jones")
  Overnight boiling (D de Villiers)
  re: Hop around the clock (Mark Hillman)
  RIMS Ideas (Louis Bonham)
  Yeast reuse (Mark Hillman)
  butt-jelly re-revisited... ("Brian Wurst")
  Another BigBrew 98 question (long) (Doug Moyer)
  poly clar (JohanNico)" <JohanNico.Aikema at akzonobel.com>
  Swedish Stark-Porter ("Tidmarsh Major")
  Spent grain baking, _Handbook of Brewing_ ("Tidmarsh Major")
  Airborne nasties; weevils; hop around the clock; apartment kegging (Samuel Mize)
  Re: Affordable Dental Plans (Jeff Grey)
  Titletown Open IV Winners / Special Thanks (Matthew Arnold)
  Hops read clocks? ("Rosenzweig,Steve")
  yeast aeration, alcohol tolerance, the aha, butt lube (Jim Liddil)
  Copper Tub (John Varady)
  Brewer's Love Song? (Samuel Mize)
  RE: butt-jelly re-revisited... (LaBorde, Ronald)
  Spent grain bread recipe (Spencer W Thomas)
  Re: Ringwood yeast (Jeff Renner)
  RE: apartment kegging (LaBorde, Ronald)
  Re: Airlocks (do you needs them?) ("Ludwig's")
  My New Efficiency (EFOUCH)
  Don't Vaseline your rubber ("Hans E. Hansen")
  O-ring lube ("Hans E. Hansen")
  Premature jocularity (Matthew Arnold)
  Esters and phenols / lager malt for ale / Weissheimer malts (George_De_Piro)
  Beer places in Dallas (Steven Lichtenberg)
  oxidation (Al Korzonas)
  Ringwood yeast (Dave Bartz)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 11:59:28 +0200 From: "Aikema, J.N. (JohanNico)" <JohanNico.Aikema at akzonobel.com> Subject: weavil Hi to all (just back from vacation in Canada), I also had (once) small vermin or Weavils or *$&#( at *'s or thingies or little buggers in the malt. At work I tried to kill them by exposure to vacuum (for at least 30 minutes). The only effect was to see them growing. But they didn't explode. In the same desiccator I put some dry ice (CO2). That killed the beasts. I don't know if it was the CO2 or the temperature (dry ice = - 80 degr.C). But after all I throwed the malt away, because I was afraid that the Weavils had converted part of the malt in unwanted raw material for my beer! Heat will also kill, but I'm afraid that the caracter of the malt will change. Greetings from Holland, Hans Aikema Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 06:40:15 -0400 From: "Steven Jones" <stjones1 at worldnet.att.net> Subject: Wort souring for p-Lambic Hi all, I'm going to try my hand at a p-Lambic next weekend. The recipe I have says to cool the wort collected from the mash (before the boil) to 125F, rack to a clean 6 gal fermenter, add a pound of pale malt, and cover for 24 hours. Then skim the surface, strain into the boiling pot, and continue as for a normal boil. My question pertains to the pound of pale malt. Should it be whole or crushed? Happy Brewing, sj State of Franklin Homebrewers http://home.att.net/~stjones1 Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 14:01:29 +0200 From: D de Villiers <ddevilliers at hotmail.com> Subject: Overnight boiling Mash and sparge on Friday night. Boil the wort for 10 minutes. Switch the power off, insulate the boiler with blanket and leave it until Saturday morning. On Saturday morning I start the boil again, add the hops and finish the brew process. I was wondering if you can think of problems which can occur. Will it depend on how far the wort cool down? Will I have DMS problems or will it boil off in any case? Will the copper boiler be a problem because of the acidity of the wort? Can I add the hops and leave it overnight in the wort? T.I.A Danie de Villiers Gauteng Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 08:20:20 -0400 From: Mark Hillman <mhillman at ebtech.net> Subject: re: Hop around the clock Use the sun as your reference. The plant will grow towards the sun. As the sun moves across the horizon from east to west the plant will follow it's path. Mark Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 07:52:10 -0500 From: Louis Bonham <lkbonham at phoenix.net> Subject: RIMS Ideas Hiya: I've been following the recent "induction RIMS" thread with passing interest, and to those of you who are currently thinking about designing or improving your RIMS I'd like to suggest some alternate design ideas for the heating chamber. Micah Milspaw reports to me that for his RIMS heater, he uses a coil of copper tubing that runs through a sealed container filled with oil (Micah sez the stuff the uses is like "liquid vasoline when warm," but in response to my questions he indicated that a water / glycol mixture would probably also work). The imersion heater(s) -- which can be the cheapo high density sort -- is also installed in this container, which I envision as being about one or two gallons in size and could be made of mild steel, aluminium, or just about any sort of metal. The control sensor is in the outlet side of the tubing, and controls (via a simple thermostat and relay) the heating element. It's thus like the "coils in the HLT" design that's been mentioned before, but uses a shorter coil that's in a fluid that gives better heat transfer than water. A variant on this theme would be to use a short counterflow chiller that's constructed entirely of metal (a-la the Super Chiller mktd by Hearts Home Brew [BTW, really sweet chiller, this]), with the "coolant" lines plumbed to a small water + glycol reservoir and a small pump (which, of course, would need to be able to handle hot liquid, but would not need to be food grade or magnetic drive). The immersion heater would be in the glycol reservoir. You could keep the glycol at a constant temp (e.g., 175F) with a simple thermoswitch and control the temp of the mash by controlling the glycol pump, or of course you could get really exotic with some PID circuitry that controls the mash temp by adjusting the wort pump speed, the glycol temp, and the glycol pump speed. These designs appear to have several advantages. First, they avoid the need to keep the flow rate relatively high (as in traditional immersion heater RIMS) to avoid scorching the wort -- the wort cannot get hotter than the bath fluid. Second, they can be CIP'd very easily. Third, they *might* provide enough heating "umph" to handle temp boosts of 1C/min without overheating the wort. Fourth, unlike the HLT design, you'd get a much quicker temp response, owing to the smaller volume of the bath and the higher thermal conductance of the fluid. And, of course, you don't need a degree in EE to try them out without risking electrocution (though you'd need to take the same reasonable precautions as you would with a conventional immersion heater RIMS). Worth considering. Louis K. Bonham Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 08:58:35 -0400 From: Mark Hillman <mhillman at ebtech.net> Subject: Yeast reuse I've read bits and pieces mentioning reusing the yeast from one batch of beer for the next. Can someone point me to specific info (details). I remember reading to just rack the wort onto the yeast cake in the primary (from prior batch). Is that it? Thanks for any and all assistance. Mark Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 08:11:15 -0500 From: "Brian Wurst" <brian at mail.netwave.net> Subject: butt-jelly re-revisited... Pat Babcock posted to HBD#2723: - --------quote------------- Some may remember this exchange back in February, the forwarded being the last installment. Immediately afterwards, having a good supply of replacement o-rings purchased via a gift certificate to my local Brew & Grow (thanks, Mom!), I ran downstairs, grabbed three of my least favorite and most empty kegs, replaced the bung seals, lubricated them with Vaseline [tm], sealed and pressurized them. Just over three months later, they are chewing gum, folks. I went down to open the kegs, and large gobs of o-ring stuck to the keg, and to the bung. The ring came off in pieces. Based on this, I have to reiterate my original "don't do it". It just takes longer than the other types of seals seem to, but it breaks the black rubber seals down just as well. And, - ----end quote----------- Sorry to hear that, Pat! I will not attempt to deny you your experience but my experience with Vaseline(tm) remains free of the problems you have encountered. Further investigation is needed to explain this discrepancy: Application: How was your Vaseline(tm) applied? I apply the thinnest of layers in two areas - on the keg lid where the o-ring contacts it and on the topside of the o-ring where it contacts the keg. Upon application the ring and the lid surface looks wet but no excess of Vaseline(tm) is to be found. If I were to wipe a dry finger on those areas with Vaseline(tm) I would find my finger only slightly shiny, not unlike if one were to touch their nose (on the outside, that is!). Time of contact: Nearly all my beers are consumed well before three months in the keg, as you describe. However, I have had some (barleywines, oily oatmeal stouts, way overhopped IPAs, nasty fruit beers, nuclear doppelbocks) which weren't as quickly consumed and spent greater than 9 months out in the cooler. These showed no trace of the deterioration you describe. Storage temperature: You made no mention of the storage temp for your kegs, but mine spend all their time at about 45F. Everything in this hobby is time and temperature related and I cannot believe this would be exempt from that dependence. Storage location: I do not know if you placed your test kegs in the same location you store your "regular" kegs, but were they close to a motor? Ozone given off from open contact motors does a wonderful job on rubber. This is grasping at straws but it is a possibility, tho remote. Again, I do not wish to discount your experience but only wish to determine why it happened to you and not me. I feel your admonition, "don't do it", is valid. It's like playing in the street or on railroad tracks...I did it and lived but I agree it isn't a good idea for you. However, carrying the metaphor further, I will continue to play in the street while you're on the curb telling others to stay out. I'm comfortable with that arrangement. Now, sing along with me - "Happy trails to you, until we meet again..." Brian Wurst brian at netwave.net Lombard, Illinois "Nature has formed you, desire has trained you, fortune has preserved you for this insanity." -Cicero Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 09:24:31 -0400 From: Doug Moyer <Douglas.Moyer at geics.ge.com> Subject: Another BigBrew 98 question (long) Dearest digest, Is my beer ruined? Two significant parts: (1) I used my usual wort aeration method of siphoning with a Bernoulli-effect tube and a spray widget, combined with agressive rolling-back-and-forth. I pitched three packets ( 5 g. each) of Nottingham dry yeast. Although fermentation was aggressive (foamy mess through my airlock, despite having 4.75 gal. in a 6.5 gal carboy), it had a longer lag time than I expected (>24 hours before it really became aggressive). Therefore, I figured that there wasn't enough oxygen for the wee beasties in a big beer, and I figured the fermantation would stick, which has happened to me a few times lately. All of this figuring meant that I didn't bother to check the S.G. before I transfered to the secondary this past Sunday--I went ahead and transferred it onto a champagne yeast starter. Now to the ugly part.... (2) After the subject brewing session, as I was cleaning up my equipment, I couldn't help but squeeze out all the wort left in the hops. I had a lot of break trapped by the Irish moss. I tried boiling the mess, but didn't get enough separation when I cooled it. I stuck it in the fridge to let it settle. Three weeks later, it is about equally split into break and clear wort. Saturday night I siphoned off the clear wort (~25 oz.), tasted (yum!) and reboiled it. I cooled it and pitched a (rehydrated) 5 g. packet of dry Red Star champagne yeast. When I had a big crusty krausen, I poured it into the bottom of a 6.5 gal carboy, and transferred (gently) the beer from the primary on top of the champagne yeast starter. As I was transferring, I took a hydrometer reading and saw that my S.G. = 1.012 (O.G. = 1.090), so I doubt I'll see much reduction in gravity. I am currently seeing very little activity (starter finishing up?). My concern is that I have all of that air sitting on top of the beer (4.5 gal. in a 6.5 gal. carboy) without sufficient CO2 production to displace it. I have a long aging process ahead, and I am worried about developing a wet-cardboard flavor. So, IMBR? Should I go ahead and transfer it to a keg and try to purge with CO2? How about into a 5 gal. carboy? Any other advice? Should I drink it all immediately to avoid oxidation? (Obviously this is my first barleywine, and my first intentional aging.) TIA and chiao, Doug Moyer Salem, VA p.s. It tastes great so far, although aging would definitely be beneficial to mellow the alcohol's aggressiveness. p.p.s. I am sure that some caring souls are concerned that methods like mine will lead (eventually) to death by botulism poisoning. Therefore, kiddies, do NOT try this at home. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 15:32:31 +0200 From: "Aikema, J.N. (JohanNico)" <JohanNico.Aikema at akzonobel.com> Subject: poly clar Hi all, Polyclar is a brandname for PVPP (polyvinylpolypyrrolidon) from ISP (International Specialty Products). IMO it is a kind of plastic. In contrast with (silica)gels it adsorbs polyphenols, mainly from the hops. As you (could) know is the cold trub the combination of protein and polyphenols which can convert in permanent trub. So it is possible to choose for removing protein or polyphenols or possible combinations. Typical dosing 20-50 g/hl Polyclar is on the market in different grades: more than 1 usable (Polyclar Super R) and for single use (Polyclar 10, fine grade; Polyclar SB 100, coarse grade; Polyclar QM). Polyclar 10 Polyclar Super R color white white to off-white solubility insol. in water, acids, alkali, solvents insol. in water, acids, alkali, solvents particle size 0-75 m moisture (Karl Fischer) 6.0 % 6.0 pH (1% suspension) 5.0-11.0 5.0-11.0 Specific surface area 1.2 m2/g % adsorptive capacity min. 40 swell volume max 55 filter flow rate 100-180 Polyclar QM (Quick mix) (almost equivalent for Polyclar 10) is a wet filtercakewith 27% solids. The advantage is that is ready for using, so it doesn't need preparing with water. Greetings from Holland, Hans Aikema Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 08:38:43 +0000 From: "Tidmarsh Major" <tidmarsh at pop.mindspring.com> Subject: Swedish Stark-Porter This weekend I had the fortune to sample a bottle of D. Carnegie & Co. Stark Porter brewed by AB Pripps Bryggerrier, Sundsvall, Sweden. I found that it had a rich, smoky taste unlike any other porter I've tried. Is there a whole range of these porters that I've never known of? It doesn't seem to fit either of the BJCP porter categories; are there sufficient other examples of this style to warrant a separate Swedish of Strong Porter category? For those of you who familiar with the brew, what goes into making it? Tidmarsh Major, Birmingham, Alabama tidmarsh at mindspring.com "Bot we must drynk as we brew, And that is bot reson." -The Wakefield Master, Second Shepherds' Play Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 08:38:43 +0000 From: "Tidmarsh Major" <tidmarsh at pop.mindspring.com> Subject: Spent grain baking, _Handbook of Brewing_ I found another source of information about spent grain baking this weekend in _The Handbook of Brewing_ (William A. Hardwick, ed. New York: Marcel Dekker, 1995). Pages 520-521 discuss preparing the spent grain for baking and provide a table listing different baked products and appropriate percentages of spent grain to add. Speaking of _The Handbook of Brewing_, I haven't seen a mention of it here. It is aimed toward a mega- and microbrewery audience, but it looks interesting. I only had a few minutes to glance over it while at the library, but it seemed to have some potentially useful information, including a chapter of brewing formulae. The chapter authors were mostly mega-brewery affiliated, but Bert Grant wrote the chapter on hops, and one of the Siebel faculty wrote another chapter, though I don't remember which. I did notice that in reference to boil evaporation rates, the only comment was that a minimum of 8% was necessary, with no mention of maximum. Tidmarsh Major, Birmingham, Alabama tidmarsh at mindspring.com "Bot we must drynk as we brew, And that is bot reson." -The Wakefield Master, Second Shepherds' Play Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 08:45:51 -0500 (CDT) From: Samuel Mize <smize at prime.imagin.net> Subject: Airborne nasties; weevils; hop around the clock; apartment kegging In HBD 2721, Hans Hansen asks how we aerate without risking infection: > What about all of that airborne > stuff that you are trying to keep out with airlocks? For many of us, that's mostly dust, cat hair, and bugs, not airborne individual bacteria. My house air is clean enough that I don't get infections. The key is to pitch plenty of yeast, and aerate so they can grow more. They will rapidly change the wort so it's a bad environment for bacterial growth. I'd only worry about sanitizing your aeration air if, like Al K, you have found that you are getting infections. If you need to, and you "don't want to spend the $ for" an O2 bottle set-up, you could check into an aquarium air-pump and filter. Check back issues of HBD for details. Don't trust the "bubble air through sanitizer" types of set-up, as most of the groaties in the air will just ride safely through in the middle of the bubble. Relatedly, Dr. Pivo posts in 2722: > I've been fiddling with airlocks. The results are pretty preliminary, > but it's starting to look like you don't need them. Airlocks keep particulates and bugs out, and help keep the CO2 layer intact once primary fermentation has slowed down. They aren't an O2 barrier. There was some discussion on HBD a few months ago about designing a truly osmosis-resistant airlock. Domenick Venezia posts in 2723: > This is not surprizing as open fermentation is/was widely used to great > success. This is usually the primary fermentation. I haven't heard of anyone who stays with true open fermentation once the krausen has fallen. Domenick also writes: > I know a brewer who brews great beer and never uses an airlock > on his carboys. He just uses plastic wrap and a rubber band. Just to be fussy about it, that's not really an open fermentation. Open fermentation lets O2 get at the fermentation. That's just an informal airlock. It depends on a continuous outflow of CO2 to maintain an O2-free environment -- but really, so does a regular airlock. - - - - - - - - - - In HBD 2722, Jon Bovard asks whether weevils in the malt will affect his beer. You might need to add a protein rest... - - - - - - - - - - In HBD 2723, Alan Keith Meeker asks about training hops clockwise. This is because they will follow the sun as they grow, so you should train them in that direction. In the USA, the sun goes east-to-west in the southern part of the sky. Your vines follow it, from east through south to west, then they hurry back around through north to face east again. This is clockwise as seen from above. In the southern hemisphere, the sun goes across the northern part of the sky, so you would train them clockwise as seen from below. In Ecuador, hop vines grow in vertical loops. :-) <-- smiley added for the humor impaired > hmmmmm I should > probably let them go whichever way they feel like. The traditional advice is telling you what way they will feel like growing. - - - - - - - - - - In HBD 2723, LowpineUno says: > I too have no room for an extra frig. We don't want to hear it, just stick to brewing. :-) <-- smiley added for the humor impaired > Anyway, my idea is a post-keg beer chiller. Works fine. This is called a "jockey box." I don't know why. You can search for that term in the HBD archives or Deja News for rec.crafts.brewing, and find lots of good plans and advice. Best, Sam Mize - -- Samuel Mize -- smize at imagin.net (home email) -- Team Ada Fight Spam - see http://www.cauce.org/ Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 10:06:46 -0400 From: Jeff Grey <jgrey at cbg.com> Subject: Re: Affordable Dental Plans I CAN'T BELIEVE THIS IDIOT WOULD POST SPAM IN THIS NEWSLETTER ! It is bad enough that I get this crap in my mailbox everyday. Can anything be done about this ?? Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 14:25:09 GMT From: marnold at netnet.net (Matthew Arnold) Subject: Titletown Open IV Winners / Special Thanks The winners of Titletown Open IV have been posted on the Green Bay Rackers' website at http://www.rackers.org/openwin.html Our thanks go out to all the judges, helpers, and anyone who entered! I must also thank AlK, Spencer, Jeff Renner, et al, who gave me tips and advice on my Munich Dunkel recipe. It took second place in the Dark category! Yippee! I'm brewing a barleywine today. I hope to enter it in Titletown Open V next May! Nothing like planning ahead. Matt - ----- Webmaster, Green Bay Rackers Homebrewers' Club http://www.rackers.org info at rackers.org Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 07:08:43 PDT From: "Rosenzweig,Steve" <Steve_Rosenzweig at wb.xerox.com> Subject: Hops read clocks? I'm not sure, but I don't think hops know from clockwise or counter clockwise - they probably just follow the sun . . . mine wind clockwise looking from above, following the morning sun in the east and through the day to the west . . . I guess all that momentum is what wraps them around the back of the twine at night (those suckers grow fast!). Before anybody starts bashing our janitors for the recent couple of chunks of spam - shut up! If you can do it better, Pat & Karl might like the summer off - put up or shut up! ObBrew: This is heresy, I'm sure, but a few months ago I made an 8.5 gallon batch of 1.050 PrePro Lager - set 5 aside for bottling and the other 3.5 for kegging. It looked like way too short of a keg, so I topped it off with preboiled water. My inlaws & I killed it over memorial day just to watch it die! It surely was no award winning homebrew, but it was just right for the occasion . . . and light enough to be a good all day drinkin' beer. I knew the keg was in trouble when they started passing over the Milwaukees Beast Light in favor of the homebrew! I'll have to schedule in a couple of them next season - bet I can make 3 out of a 10 gallon batch! Steve in Ontario NY Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 08:04:34 +0000 From: Jim Liddil <jliddil at azcc.arizona.edu> Subject: yeast aeration, alcohol tolerance, the aha, butt lube Pat should just use Dow Corning Silicone high vacuum grease. Dan McConnell and Ken Schramm had a Rhubarb beer at the AHA talk a few years ago that was excellent. >From: Andy Walsh <awalsh at ventrassist.com> >Subject: starting aeration > >Maybe this is Tracy's current theory - certainly not mine, and I doubt >you'd find many brewing scientists who agreed with this. This has been >bugging me since I first read Tracy's BT article, so feel compelled to >finally add a counter opinion, when it is claimed to be "current >theory". > I think the original intent that Tracy had was that if you grow the yeast under constant aeration and provide no gowth limiting amounts of FAN then you can pitch wiht no aeration. This is hardly his "theory" Research has shown this to be the case. For starters (grin) read CRC Critical Reviews in mIcrobiology "Ethanol tolerance in Yeasts" Vol 13, Issue 3 as well as Applied and Environ. Micro vol 48, no 3 p. 639 as a start. These guy were able to ferment 28 P wort and repitch the yeast five times with no loss in viability. They even fermented 32 P with no problems. I'm not saying that this how you should make beer though. Researchers who have studied fermentation under anaerobic conditions have to go to major extremes to eliminate any and all oxygen. If even a trace is present the yeast suck it up and it effects the results. So I feel that if you make your starter with proper amounts of FAN and use constant aeration you should not have to worry about aeration too much. I typically chill my wort to 4 C to drop as much cold break as possible and then filter into my fermenter and have had no stcuk ferments. I don't brew lagers at all though. Also between the recent bigbrew discussion and the "high gravity article in BT I was remind that "alcohol tolerance" is really and ill defined term and that champagne yeast is really no more alcohol tolerant than is ale yeast. There is much more to getting complete fermentation than just throwing more yeast at it. The BT author is largely incorrect in stating that there is a 12% alcohol limit. This is largely a momily. See above and the literature, particularly wrt to Sake'. >From: "George De Piro" <gdepiro at NOSPAMfcc.net> >Subject: AHA NHC comments / YEast growth, aeration, etc. > >> Dave is correct, but what he also helps dig a slightly deeper hole for >> the AHA. The AHA does control the judging assignements for the second <snip> Goerge and a few other have been mentioning their displeasure with the AHA. An easy solution is to not enter. We all have the choice not to participate and not give the AHA (aob) our money. If we all started doing this and entered local comps and the MCAB maybe the AHA Nationals would dry up and go away like the Indy 500. And another largley unpopular idea is for the BJCP to boycott the AHA nationals. This would send a clear message to the AHA of who is in charge. :-) And if the MCAB turns out ot suck then another laternative can be formed. Also george gripes about the AHA not listening. Well the AHA is part of the AOB and we know who is really in charge. Jim Parker and now Amahl did not leave the AHA just because of better jobs. I still subscribe to Zymurgy and am concerned that it is looking more like All about Beer all the time. >> >> I am a bit confused about this whole "don't aerate the wort to reduce >> esters and other yeast by-products" thread. >> >> According to Kunze, ester formation is inhibited as long as yeast are >> producing fatty acids and lipids. Yeast produce these compounds >> utilizing oxygen. If you take away the oxygen, you inhibit lipid >> synthesis, and thus allow ester synthesis to occur. So wouldn't you >> want to give the yeast oxygen to keep ester levels low? But if the yeast are grown under highly aerobic conditions they should have the maximum 1% lipid level and be ready to go. Homebrewers are not like commercial brewers, we rarely repitch so we are always growing yeast and not harvesting very often. Or just use 24 ppm ergesterol, 0.24% tween 80 and 0.8% yeast extract. >> >> Another point that both Kunze and the folks at Siebel make is that >> decreased fermentation temperature increases overall ester production. >> This is the opposite of what most homebrewers believe. Any comments? Is this in regards to all beer or only lager. Please define the tmeprature ranges you are talking about. I don't have Kunze, YET. But why should I pay shipping when I can carry it on the plane? >> >> Increased temperature does increase yeast growth, which invariably >> increases the production of higher alcohols. Kunze talks about the >> importance of the ratio of higher alcohols to esters, saying that the >> optimum is 1:2.5-3 (this is from Narziss, Brauwelt 45 (1995). Could >> it be that at higher fermentation temperatures the ratio of higher >> alcohols to esters is skewed, giving the impression of a fruitier >> product when in fact esters levels are actually lower than in a >> cold-fermented beer? The cold-fermented beer will have fewer higher >> alcohols. Again you need to define these temperatures. Higher temps (> 25 C) really seem to effect yeast' ablity to survive in given amounts of alcohol. And again is Kunze talking about lagers only or all beer? Jim Liddil Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 11:09:32 -0700 From: John Varady <rust1d at usa.net> Subject: Copper Tub Whilst out flea-marketing, I came across an old copper washing machine (patent date 1911 from the Laun-DRY-ette company). It is approximately 30 inches in diameter and 24 inches in height with a drain on the bottom edge. It came on a sturdy (albeit rusty) metal frame with castors. It has a 3 inch square patch in the center of the bottom that is welded in place. It has a tight fitting lid that appears to be aluminum. The gauge of the copper is not very high and is probably less than a mil. The cost was $25 (without even haggling). Some questions: Can this contact wort or is there some alloy that might have been used to weld the seams that would prevent it? Can I apply heat to the vessel directly without concerns (ie is it thick enough)? Are there any concerns with the patch welded in the bottom? How much volume will this hold (read: I'm too lazy to find the formula and do the math)? What should I do to make this brew-worthy? I would like to use this as a kettle rather than mash tun, as I don't plan on making 30+ gallon batches any time soon... If I can't use it, the wife is going to put plants in it (cringe!). Peace! John John Varady http://www.netaxs.com/~vectorsys/varady Boneyard Brewing The HomeBrew Recipe Calculating Program Glenside, PA rust1d at usa.net Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 10:12:03 -0500 (CDT) From: Samuel Mize <smize at prime.imagin.net> Subject: Brewer's Love Song? A great brewer's love song is on the radio. aka: Fields of Gold, by Sting: You will think of me when the west wind blows Upon the fields of barley You'll forget the sun in his jealous sky As we walk in fields of gold. ... If you like smooth, mellow music, you'll probably enjoy it. I mention this because, when you hear Sting's enunciation on car stereo speakers, it sounds like "Upon the fields of arlgneigh..." Best, Sam Mize - -- Samuel Mize -- smize at imagin.net (home email) -- Team Ada Fight Spam - see http://www.cauce.org/ Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 10:29:03 -0500 From: rlabor at lsumc.edu (LaBorde, Ronald) Subject: RE: butt-jelly re-revisited... >From: "Pat Babcock" <pbabcock at oeonline.com> >lubricated >them with Vaseline [tm], sealed and pressurized them. Just over >three months later, they are chewing gum, folks. I went down to open >the kegs, and large gobs of o-ring stuck to the keg, and to the bung. >The ring came off in pieces. I think that petroleum based oils are very harmful to rubber, silicone based oils are OK. I do not know about vegetable based oils. I have been using PAM (the spray stuff for cooking), and it seems to work well. The ingredients say Canola oil. Now I have read about the need for beer glasses to be immaculately clean and oil free, or the foam head will quickly dissipate, however I do not have any problems. Any thoughts? Ron Ronald La Borde - Metairie, Louisiana - rlabor at lsumc.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 11:30:35 -0400 From: Spencer W Thomas <spencer at engin.umich.edu> Subject: Spent grain bread recipe Note the dichotomy in the two statements below. Jeremy York <jeremy at ThemeMedia.com> wrote: >> Hrm, now I'm wondering if some of the yeast collected from >> sediment would be any good for making bread... ^^^^^^^^ Jeff" == Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu> writes: Jeff> I'd suggest a tablespoon of thick pasty top cropped yeast ... ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Sediment is BAD for bread, because it has lots of stuff in it besides yeast, and that stuff tastes NASTY. Maybe sediment from secondary would be ok. =Spencer Thomas in Ann Arbor, MI (spencer at umich.edu) Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 11:36:28 -0400 From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu> Subject: Re: Ringwood yeast Alan Meeker wrote: >At the GABF I had an ale made with Ringwood yeast - it had a very >interesting taste profile! Has anyone here had any experience with this >yeast? Is it a single strain? Any widespread commercial examples of its >use? Reliable sources of cultures? YeastLab A09 "English" is Ringwood, according to a Dec. 14, 1994 post to HBD by Dan McConnell, who produces YeastLab's liquid yeasts (not the dry). Dan's Yeast Culture Kit Co. also has it at http://oeonline.com/~pbabcock/yckcotbl.html (no affiliation except that Dan is a friend who gives me yeast, but, as Dave Draper is fond of quoting me as having said, "I can't be bought for a mere $3.50"). There are at least two distinctly different strains that are called Ringwood. The real McCoy is a strong top cropper and has high O2 needs. A local brewpub (Pugsley design, so the yeast is authentic as Pugsley is affiliated with Ringwood founder Peter Austin) using it actually pumps over a fountain of fermenting wort partway through the ferment to aerate it. They just throw in a submersible pump and pump up a frothy fountain. Not surprisingly, their ales have a distinctive diacetyl house character. NCYC 1187, which forms no yeast head at all, is also often referred to as Ringwood on HBD. I don't know why as it's a much different yeast, selected for quick sedimentation in cylindro-conical fermenters. It produces no diacetyl in my experience. This yeast is used by Ann Arbor's other brewpub (Arbor Brewing Co., the better one in my not so humble opinion, and not because of the yeast). Jeff -=-=-=-=- Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan c/o nerenner at umich.edu "One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 10:36:00 -0500 From: rlabor at lsumc.edu (LaBorde, Ronald) Subject: RE: apartment kegging >From: LowpineUno <LowpineUno at aol.com> >Anyway, my idea is a post-keg beer chiller. Similar to the wort chiller with >the copper tubing. Take a length of copper tubing...... Copper is not good to be in contact with beer long term, so stainless tubing is recommended. >On the non-spigot end >attach some appropriate sized plastic tubing, one end of the tubing goes over >the copper tubing, the other end shall have the picnic tap wedged inside.... It would be better to have the picnic tap on the output side of the coil so that pressure will be maintained, or else the beer remaining in the tubing will go flat! Ron Ronald La Borde - Metairie, Louisiana - rlabor at lsumc.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 12:36:51 -0400 From: "Ludwig's" <dludwig at us.hsanet.net> Subject: Re: Airlocks (do you needs them?) Dr Pivo says: > I've been fiddling with airlocks. The results are pretty preliminary, > but it's starting to look like you don't need them. > Yes, I read the write up. Maybe you don't need them. But,then again, using a plastic airlock is about the easiest thing to do in brewing, IMHO. And it gives you a pretty good indication of your fermentation activity. Does plastic and a rubber band give you that? This is starting to sound like an attempt to drag out the old beatin' horse. Sorry. Later. dave ludwig Flat Iron Brewery SO MD Return to table of contents
Date: 26 May 1998 12:55:46 -0400 From: EFOUCH at steelcase.com Subject: My New Efficiency HBD- After finishing up my first batch of beer made in my new 10 gal Gott, I got a bittersweet surprise: My efficiency went up from 75% to 85%! (over a slotted copper 5 gal boil pot, now no longer doing double duty) On the down side, I now have to figure out what to do with 7 gallons of OG 1.075 beer, when I was expecting 7 gallons of 1.050 beer. Typically with this recipe, I add 12 oz of orange juice concentrate to the secondary for my OJ Amber Ale. Then I saw (finally) in the late issue of BT, an article on brewing more homebrew by diluting high gravity homebrew: Brew it to high gravity, then diluting with water at packaging. Based on this article, I was thinking of diluting the OJ concentrate to one gallon with water, then adding it to the secondary. Other than the intuitively repulsive idea of diluting home brewed beer, does this sound kosher? I mean orthodox? No wait, I mean zymurgilogically sound? Eric Fouch Sensitivity Trainer Bent Dick YoctoBrewery Kentwood MI "Don't let a lack of qualificatins stop you from pursuing your career goals. I was never qualified for any of the positions I acheived." -Sonny Bono, an excerpt from "I'm Living Proof You Can Have The American Dream" Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 10:02:41 -0700 From: "Hans E. Hansen" <hansh at teleport.com> Subject: Don't Vaseline your rubber Pat Babcock questions why Vaseline works for some and not others. (I am refering to rubber gaskets here folks.) Your local auto mechanic has the answer to this. In cars, rubber seals are made of neoprene, which is resistant to petroleum products. In the case of O-rings and seals for kegs, I suppose some brands are neoprene and others aren't. Virtually all O-rings I have seen are neoprene, but I am in the auto business. Keep Vaseline away from regular rubber and latex (snicker). Hans E. Hansen hansh at teleport.com Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 10:09:10 -0700 From: "Hans E. Hansen" <hansh at teleport.com> Subject: O-ring lube Oops! Forgot to include this comment in the previous post. Use silicon lube on rubber instead of Vaseline. It won't eat it. You can find 'food grade' silicon, but personally I just use the hardware store variety. Just make sure it doesn't have various additives commonly used in lubricants. Some brands of silicon lube actually add petroleum products, which kills the advantage of using silicon. One key is to check the label to see if it specifically says it is safe on rubber and plastic. Hans E. Hansen hansh at teleport.com Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 17:29:10 GMT From: marnold at netnet.net (Matthew Arnold) Subject: Premature jocularity Sadly, there was an error in the original information I received about the Titletown Open IV results. The corrections have been made and the website now has the proper information. One of the changes was my beer which actually finished fifth instead of second. My thanks still go to all who helped with the recipe. Matt - ----- Webmaster, Green Bay Rackers Homebrewers' Club http://www.rackers.org info at rackers.org Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 13:42:13 -0700 From: George_De_Piro at berlex.com Subject: Esters and phenols / lager malt for ale / Weissheimer malts Hi all, This is a peeve of mine, so please forgive the analness of it: the clove character found in German wheat beers is NOT from an ester! It is a phenolic compound (4-vinyl guiaucol) that we perceive as clove-like spiciness. The banana character is indeed from an ester, iso-amylacetate. I don't know if Wyeast 3068 is multi-strain, but "delbruekii" is not lager yeast (which is S. uvarum, formerly S. carlsbergensis). Lager yeast wouldn't be too prone to producing the funky flavors of Bavarian Weizen, anyway. ---------------------------------- Michael K. asks about using "lager" malts for ales, and tells us that he was told that doing so may produce too much diacetyl. It won't effect diacetyl levels. The major difference between malt labeled as "Pils" (or "Pilsner") and "pale ale" is the kilning schedule. Pale ale malts are kilned at a higher temperature, making them a bit darker than Pilsner malt. This also effects the flavor of the malt. Pilsner malt will have more SMM in it, which can cause increased levels of DMS in your beer (yes Bill G., I know DMS is necessary to a point...). That may or may not be welcome in your ESB. For what it's worth, I brew ales with Pilsner malt quite often. In fact, I just courageously brewed a South English Brown ale using something like 50% Munich malt and 30% pilsner malt (both from Germany). The wort smelled great! ----------------------------------- Somebody (sorry, don't remember who) asked if Weissheimer malt is well modified. They may even have asked specifically about Munich malt (I didn't sleep enough last night, which is why I'm so vague, sorry). Somewhere I do have Weissheimer specs. While I can't post the exact numbers now, they are well modified (as the original poster's "chew test" indicated). In fact, German maltsters aim for well modified malt when producing Munich malt. The reason given is so that they have higher concentrations of amino acids available to react with sugars to form melanoidins during the kilning of the malt. Have fun! George De Piro (Nyack, NY) Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 13:43:54 -0400 From: Steven Lichtenberg <slichten at pci-net.com> Subject: Beer places in Dallas I know these types of requests have been out of favor for a while but I am going to Dallas next week. Anyone have any don't miss places to go while there? Thanks.. ________________________________________ Steven Lichtenberg Progressive Consultants, Inc. "Your Progress is Our Business" E-Mail: slichten at pci-net.com Tel: (703) 790-9316 Fax: (703) 790-9248 ________________________________________ Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 14:46:00 -0500 (CDT) From: Al Korzonas <korz at xnet.com> Subject: oxidation Sorry about the delay... I was at the Mayo Clinic for a week... doctor says it's "Benign Vertigo" and I'll just have to get used to it. Dr. Pivo writes: >On the other hand, some >wimpy tasting modern commercial lagers are virtually >"indestructable".... A Buweiser sold in the U.K. is just as innocuous >and insipid as it is in St. Louis (personal opinion) Just for the record, Budweiser in the UK is brewed under contract *IN* the UK. I too have had it (oh, the sacrifices we make in the interest of knowledge!) and it does taste just like that made in St. Louis (or the, what, seven (?) other plants around the US). Also just for the record, I have a fine working knowledge of the difference between oxidation and oxygen. Oh, and regarding Budweiser and oxidation, I believe it was Dr. Fix who once talked about a problem with oxidation of Bud at a contract plant in Japan. It seems that in the interest of efficiency, some piping was altered from the A-B-approved plans. This resulted in the splashing of hot wort and a subsequent darkening of the beer. I cannot say for sure that I recall any flavour/aroma problems were reported, so I won't guess. If anyone knows more details of this story, please post. Al. Al Korzonas, Palos Hills, IL korz at xnet.com http://www.brewinfo.com/brewinfo/ Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 16:58:20 -0400 From: Dave Bartz <gbrewer at iquest.net> Subject: Ringwood yeast ALAN KEITH MEEKER <ameeker at welchlink.welch.jhu.edu> said: >>>>>At the GABF I had an ale made with Ringwood yeast - it had a very interesting taste profile! Has anyone here had any experience with this yeast? Is it a single strain? Any widespread commercial examples of its use? Reliable sources of cultures?<<<<<<<<<<< White Labs of San Diego cultures and supplies the Ringwood strain to both commercial breweries and homebrew supply retailers. They call it British Ale yeast and it's description is as follows: > WLP005- British Ale Yeast:Our most award winning yeast strain, this yeast is a little more attenuative then our English Ale WLP002. Like most English strains, this yeast produces malty beers. Excellent for all English style ales including bitter, pale ale, porter, and brown ale. Attenuation is 67-74%. Flocculation is High. Optimum fermentation temperature is 65-70 degrees. < You're right. Its taste profile is a complex fruitiness that becomes more distinctive the more you experience its taste. It produces excellent stouts and porters. The yeast was used in a couple of AHA NHC Gold Medal winners last year. White Labs web page is at: http://www.whitelab.com/ Affiliated as a retailer that outsells White Labs 4 to 1 over Wyeast. Dave Bartz (Prez) "Beer is good" - 5000 B.C. http://www.the-gourmet-brewer.com/ Return to table of contents
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