---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com


Contents:
  Phil's Philler ("Michel J. Brown")
  We ain't heavies, we've got brothers! (Ken Jucks, ph # 617-496-7580)
  debunking "debunk"=calling someone a liar (Mark Garthwaite)
  re: Wyeast 1968 (Sharon/Dan Ritter)
  Re: Yeast Growth and Pitching (David Lamotte)
  AHA problems in Lowell (Bill Giffin)
  Where can I get my IBUs verified? (Mike Spinelli)
  open fermnets (Mike Spinelli)
  Oh, come on! (was: De-bunk that funk) (Steve Jackson)
  malt in bread (Jeff Renner)
  Weizen extract questions (Mike Spinelli)
  Rewiring a motor for 115V. ("Peter J. Calinski")
  Jack; Brewferm; bread; picnic cooler (Samuel Mize)
  AHA Nationals a mess (big surprise?) ("Henckler, Andrew")
  Pediococcus Damnosus (Charley Burns)
  Re: Spent grains in bread ("Hans E. Hansen")
  Two Day Brew ("Scott Nichols")
  Can't convince 'em? Confuse 'em! (EFOUCH)
  Warm Starter (ricjohnson)
  two day brews (John Wilkinson)
  No More Mr. Beer! (John D Lichtenberger)
  AHA-poor planning x2 ("Jim & Shelly Wagner")


BUZZ's Buzz-Off competition is June 27-28. Information is available at
www.voicenet.com/~rpmattie/buzzoff or via R. Mattie at
rpmattie at voicenet.com. 


NOTE NEW HOMEBREW ADDRESS:  hbd.org 

Send articles for __publication_only__ to post@hbd.org
  (Articles are published in the order they are received.) 

If your e-mail account is being deleted, please unsubscribe first!!

To SUBSCRIBE or UNSUBSCRIBE send an e-mail message with the word
  "subscribe" or "unsubscribe" to request@hbd.org. 
**SUBSCRIBE AND UNSUBSCRIBE REQUESTS MUST BE SENT FROM THE E-MAIL
**ACCOUNT YOU WISH TO HAVE SUBSCRIBED OR UNSUBSCRIBED!!! 
IF YOU HAVE SPAM-PROOFED your e-mail address, the autoresponder and
  the SUBSCRIBE/UNSUBSCRIBE commands will fail!

For "Cat's Meow" information, send mail to brewery at hbd.org

Homebrew Digest Information on the Web: http://hbd.org

Requests for back issues will be ignored. Back issues are available via:

  Anonymous ftp from...
	ftp://hbd.org/pub/hbd/digests
	ftp://ftp.stanford.edu/pub/clubs/homebrew/beer

  AFS users can find it under...
        /afs/ir.stanford.edu/ftp/pub/clubs/homebrew/beer

JANITORS on duty: Pat Babcock and Karl Lutzen (janitor@hbd.org)


----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 13:35:07 -0700
From: "Michel J. Brown" <homemade at spiritone.com>
Subject: Phil's Philler

Just picked up a counterpressure filler the other day from Listermans, and
wanted to review the hardware. Basically its a tee with two hoses attached
to the arms, and a metal tube attached to the body. On the tee there is a
two way valve, which has tubes running to the keg outlet (beer side), and
the other runs to a bypass valve and another tube, which connects to the
inlet side through another tee which is pressurized from the CO2 bottle.
The corny connections were not supplied, and all the fittings are 1/4"
barbs, which do leak a little gas, but no beer :-) Basic operation is to
pressure up the system and turn the valve ccw for priming the system, then
inset the dip tube into a bottle, and turn the valve cw to pressurize with
CO2. After pressurizing, turn the valve ccw and fill with beer. When full,
immediately remove the philler from the bottle, and cap. 

Well, that's the procedure, according to Phil :-7 The instructions (which
do not include illustrations) are OK, but confusing to a CPBF neophyte. The
sheet explains operation fairly well, but recommends using the same
pressure as is found in the keg, ostensibly to reduce foaming. I tried this
and was rebaptized in the true spirit of St. Stephan. After cleaning up the
incredible mess, I turned down the pressure to 10 psi, and was rewarded
with a nice flow that barely foamed to the top of the bottle when released.
I can live with such a little bit of foam, rather than bathing in it!

Good points of the system are that its relatively inexpensive (<$35),
simple, and easy to use. Bad points are that you must have some extra corny
fittings, or cannibalize something (like I did with my filter) to get the
IN and OUT ball locks needed. Also, I would recommend a quick disconnect
for the CO2 line, just to keep everything quick and easy. So expect to pay
an additional $10 for ball locks, and another $5 for a quick disconnect,
which brings the total expense to <$50. So keep the pressure down to
serving range, and you won't be disappointed. God Bless!

                Dr. Michel J. Brown, D.C. {Portland, OR}
		    2222 miles due west of Jeff Renner
                         homemade at spiritone.com
              http://www.spiritone.com/~homemade/index.html
    "In the field of observation, chance favors only the prepared mind"
			       L. Pasteur


Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 18:09:28 -0400
From: jucks at cfaft4.harvard.edu (Ken Jucks, ph # 617-496-7580)
Subject: We ain't heavies, we've got brothers!

Alan Talman related to the HBD the serious lack of judges at the Northeast
AHA first round competition site.  He goes further by stating that the
Boston Wort Processors were "the bad guys" for not only not supporting
the competition, but purposely boycotting the competition.

I can understand Alan's dismay at the lack of judges, but he unfortunately
completely misinformed as to the facts in his post.  

I will spell the misinformation out individually.

1)  The Boston Wort Processors DID NOT boycott the event.  We are a 
club run by volunteers, not judges.  We are not affiliated in any way
with any national/professional organization.  The club cannot, has not, and 
will never tell its members what they can and cannot do with their time and
energy.  We NEVER held any kind of vote or made any kind of statement
for or against this competition as a club.  Even though we have a fair number 
of BJCP judges in the club, most of our members are not judges.  Most of the
individual judges I know well in the club are VERY free thinkers and
are adult enough to decide how to spend their time.

2)  This competition was never really in the hands of "locals".  There
was one person (a local AHA representative) who was originally the local
coordinator, but he had to pull out due to personal reasons.  About one
year ago, someone from the AHA approached the Wort president at that time
and asked if the club or anyone in the club wished to host the competition
for the AHA.  We run our own fairly large competition which requires 
ALOT of time and manpower and thus precluded us from taking this on as
a club.  We did at that time encourage any individual in the club to 
approach the AHA and volunteer if they saw fit.

3)  To the best of my knowledge, the AHA never approached other big clubs
in the area about helping to organize the competition.  And by the number 
of judges there (14) it sounded like the BJCP judges who are members of
other clubs in New England did not attend either.  Why aren't those 
clubs the heavies as well?  About 70% of the judges at the Worts' 
Boston Homebrew Competition were from these other clubs (and many Worts
judge at their clubs competitions).

4)  I doubt very seriously that roughly 100 of the over 550 entries were
from members of the Worts.  We didn't have anywhere near that many entries
from club members in our competition.  In fact, I know of no members who 
did enter, but am willing to accept that there could have been 10-20 entries
from club members.  So, if 1 of the 14 judges were from our club, then
a much higher percentage of the judges were from the club than entries.

5)  There were more than 1 judge who is a member the club who volunteered
to judge at the AHA site that weekend.  The bulk of the judges for the cider 
competition were members of the Worts, including its organizer!!!!!!

6)  The date was set without any consultation with the members of any of
the clubs in the area.  This smacks of complete arrogance on the part of
its organizers.  In fact, it occured one week before a rather large 
regional competition held annually by a big club in Maine, where some
BJCP judges in our club had committed to judge.  I'm sure that the Maine
people had absolutely no free time on their hands.

7)  The judges in the area were not notified about the call for judges 
until 2 weeks before the competition.  Does the AHA assume the BJCP judges
in this area have no lives?

8)  They must assume this because they held it on a holiday weekend, the
traditional and meteorological start of summer weather around these parts!

Am I a bad guy for not telling my in-laws that they couldn't visit, for
not telling my students that I would not have their final exam grades in 
on time, and for not cancelling my committment to a very large professional
society meeting being held here in Boston because the AHA made a last 
minute request for my time?

You bet I am!!!!

Ken Jucks,
an individual member of one of many clubs who happens to be a BJCP judge,
and who knows a little bit about what it takes to organize a competition
the right way.



Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 18:53:22 -0500 (CDT)
From: Mark Garthwaite <mgarth at primate.wisc.edu>
Subject: debunking "debunk"=calling someone a liar


	debunk (vt) - to expose the false or exaggerated claims,
pretentions, glamour, etc. of 

	As you can see from the trusty Websters dictionary, "debunking"
doesn't automatically imply that someone is lying.  Relax, Sam....I don't
think that whoever used the term was trying to attack the entire brewing
community as a bunch of liars.  Exaggerating is not the same as lying.

	With regard to FWH: I was often disappointed with the "hoppy-ness"
of many of my beers using the traditional hopping method.  It often
seemed too subdued. My last batch was an American Pale Ale and I tried
FWH-ing for the first time and really like the results.  There does seem
to be a "smoother" hop flavor although not really an enhanced aroma.  Just
one opinion.

	A question about decoction mashing....doesn't boiling a portion of
the grist extract more tannins from the husks?

 -Mark Garthwaite
 Madison, WI




Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 06:09:28 -0600
From: Sharon/Dan Ritter <ritter at bitterroot.net>
Subject: re: Wyeast 1968

Dave Riedel writes:

>I made a best bitter last month using Wyeast Special London
>(ESB) Ale - 1968.  .... End result was a very low 65% apparent attenuation.

>For a typical ale yeast, I would've expected 78-80% AA.
>Where am I likely to have messed up?  Start swirling the
>fermenter as soon as the airlock shows activity?  Try to aerate
>more?

I've been using 1968 as my standard ale yeast for several years. Checking
over the past 4 beers I made with this yeast, I got the following
attenuation percentages: 77, 75, 74, 74.

FWIW, I save and repitch the yeast 5 or 6 times before I start over with a
new smack-pack. I build up large starters, aerate with O2, ferment at 68-70
degrees, and swirl the carboy a few times as fermentation activity starts
to slow (usually on day 3 of the primary fermentation). 1968 has been a
solid performer for me altho I have to admit some difficulties with poor
attenuation in my ales and lagers before I started aerating with pure
oxygen.



Dan Ritter <ritter at bitterroot.net>
Ritter's MAMMOTH Brewery - Hamilton, Montana




Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 04 Jun 1998 22:19:59 +1000
From: David Lamotte <lamotted at ozemail.com.au>
Subject: Re: Yeast Growth and Pitching

I have been pondering the recent discussions surrounding George de
Piro and Andy Walsh over the last few weeks on how pitched yeast
depends on wort oxygenation for sterol synthesis (and hence growth and
division).  

Following on from Andy's comment that:

> ... I think homebrewers can often get away with underaeration
> because their worts are usually very high in trub. Trub supplies the
> basic fatty acids and sterols needed without the necessity of using
> oxygen to build them up instead....

Dr Fix also notes (PoBS p167) that in spite of this apparent advantage
of trub reducing the yeast oxygen requirements, it is preferable to
avoid trub carry over into the fermenter due to the adverse effects of
fatty acids on beer staling.

Coincidentally, at about the same time as I read Andy's post, I
downloaded Chapter 10 - Fermentation, of the The Practical Brewer from
the MBAA www site.  This talks about a starting/settling tank being
used to receive the pitched and aerated wort, and holding it for 3-24
hours before sending it on to the fermenter.  During this time, trub,
inactive yeast and other solids settle in the tank where it is left
behind when the fermenting wort is transferred.

This would seem to be an ideal way for home brewers with meagre
oxygenation equipment to use the trub during the yeast growth phase,
but leave it behind when there is no further use for it.  

But of course I have some questions:

What needs to be done to ensure that you get the good yeast into
suspension and hold them there so that they are not lost when you send
the wort onto the fermenter proper ?

If you just let it settle, will this enable the yeast to 'get at' the
trub or do you need to stir etc for some period of time ?

At what temperature should this 24 hr holding period be; fermentation
temp, higher or lower ?

Will my beer be ruined ? {8-)

Any experience of comments would be appreciated.

Thanks

David Lamotte,
Brewing Down Under in Newcastle, N.S.W. Australia.


Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 04 Jun 1998 08:31:15 -0400
From: Bill Giffin <billg at ctel.net>
Subject: AHA problems in Lowell


Top of the morning to yea all,

Bob of pbsbeer said:

"Planning for this event was obviously poor, both on the part of the AHA and
more importantly the homebrew clubs in the New England area, which run NE
Homebrewer of the Year. My understanding was that there were 2 NEHBY events
surrounding the AHA 1st round. After all how many competitions can you
judge in a month."

Why is it that folks want to paint the clubs in New England as the bad guys
first The Boston Wort Processors then all of the rest of the clubs in New
England? The AHA made the mistakes!

The New England Homebrewer of the Years is a regional competition which has
been held for the past nine to ten years.  The schedule for the
competitions that make up the NEHBOTY is established at least a year in
advance.  Many of the competitions have been the same weekend for a number
of years.  We here in New England did our planning and we hold five great
competitions that make up the NEHBOTY competition.  We also have a number
of long standing competitions, two at fairs, that are held each year. We
did our planning and none of our competitions were held on a three-day
weekend.  

Bob goes on to say:

"They might also work with the BJCP to insure there are no other sanctioned
competitions too close to the Nationals"

Now here is a truly stupid idea.  Displace a competition that was scheduled
four months prior to when the AHA started there planning.  Remember one
thing we here in Maine are separated from Lowell by 200 miles.  There are
plenty of judges who might have gone to Lowell if they had enough time to
plan their personal schedules.  I fully planned to go to Lowell and help
and I would have brought a few more judges with me, until I found out that
it was Memorial Day weekend.


Jim DiPalma wondered:

"I don't know whether the MALTS were ever asked to organize after the Worts
declined - perhaps Bill
Giffin can jump in here."

The AHA didn't contact anyone in the Maine Ale and Lager Tasters (MALT).  I
contacted Brian R at the AHA saying that we would consider organizing the
first round of the AHA NHC here in Maine.  Brian assured me that Amahl
Turczyn would contact me.  He didn't.  I don't understand why?  MALT hosts
two competitions each year, The Common Ground Fair Homebrew Competition for
the past 17 years and the NNEHBC for the past 6 years.  We also ran one of
the first AHA Club only competitions that was hosted by a club.  I can
assure you that had we run the North East first round it would have gone a
lot better as we have the experience to do it right.

Those of you who entered the AHA NHC entered into a legal and binding
contract with the AHA.  They offered to judge your beer and award prizes
provided you meet the rules of the competition. The AHA did not meet its
responsibility to those of you who entered their beers in Lowell.
Therefore I believe that they have breached their contract with you as with
only 15 judges there is no way that the entries could have been adequately
evaluated.  I suggest that you all demand you money back!  Furthermore how
many of the other sites that did first round AHA NHC had difficulties?
Perhaps more of you need to request your money back.  I can assure you of
one thing, your chance of getting a refund from the AHA IS SLIM TO NONE.

Bill




Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 04 Jun 98 08:52:00 est
From: paa3983 at dscp.dla.mil (Mike Spinelli)
Subject: Where can I get my IBUs verified?

HBDers,

Is there a lab out there that could analyze my brew and give 
me the true IBU level?  And would it cost a fortune?

Reason I ask is I figure if I get the real IBU number, I could then
adjust my formula, lame as it may be, accordingly.

For example I just brewed 20 gals. of an IPA? that had an OG of 55
with the following hops:

4 oz. Columbus flowers  at  15.1% (70 min.)
4 oz. Centennial flowers  at  9.5% (70 min.)
3 oz. Columbus flowers (knock off)

Now I get 73 IBUs !!  Here's my lame formula:
ounces X  % alpha X 25 
====================divided by
1.34 X gallons left with

so for the 4 oz. of Columbus, I get 4 oz. X 15.1 % X 25  = 1510
1.34 X 20 gallons  = 26.8

so, 1510/26.8 = 56.34 IBUs

Well, how flawed is this ?  I know there's a million other variables
like gravity, type & age of hops, El Nino, etc., but if a lab tells me that
this brew is certified to have X amount IBUs, I could adjust accordingly.   

Thoughts? Comments?
 
On a related note, though I've never entered a competition due to
1) having to brew to style and 2) hearing horror stories of sccore
sheets coming back with useless comments. I WOULD be interested
in submitiing my brew to a recognized judge who would evaluate the
brew not by comparing it to other examples, but just on its own merit.  
I'd like to know what off flavors they may detect or anything else that may
be out of wack.  

I figure a judge who's away from the the madness of  a competition
and who can quietly sit and focus on just one brew might provide
some real insight.

Any thoughts?

Thanks.
Mike Spinelli
Mikey's Monstrer Brew
Cherry Hill NJ



Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 04 Jun 98 09:21:18 est
From: paa3983 at dscp.dla.mil (Mike Spinelli)
Subject: open fermnets

HBDers,

Jim in 2728 asked  about experiences w/ open ferments (OF)
so here's mine.  The main reason I'm OFing is because I hated
the thought of cleaning and lugging 4 or 5 filled carboys into the
house at the end of an 8+ hour brewday.  I figured, hell, I've got a pump,
I've got a 55 gallon SS tank...why the heck can't I just ferment in that?

So for the last 2 brews that's just what I did.  At the end of the boil which
is taking place in 1 of my 55 gal SS tanks, I sanitize the other tank by
boiling a couple gallons of water inside with the lid on.  I then carefully
lift the tank off the burner and lay on its side w/ the lid still on and drain 
out the boiled water.  Then I throw the tank on a hand truck and wheel 
it  into my dining room where it's placed on cinder blocks and RR ties.

Go back outside, stop the boil, and run the hot wort thru the CF chiller to the
pump up into a hose going thru my dining room window and into the
OF tank.  The wort falls a good couple feet which aerates it nicely.  
About midway thru the fill I dump in a ball jar full of local micro yeast
from Flying Fish.  Once filled, I pull out the hose and close the lid.  The
lid fits loosely since it wasn't made for the tank, (it's a hot water
heater leak pan from home depot).

That's about it.  I'm still on the fence as to whether this REALLY is an OF.
I never remove the lid dduring the entire ferment  and I haven't (yet) harvested
the yeast from the top.  My biggest fear was contamination with this system but
it doesn't seem to be problem.  

The real beauty is at bottling/kegging time.  No siphoning BS anymore or cleanin
g 5 carboys after racking.  Just open the ball valve on the tank and fill the
bottling bucket or keg.  

The one downside is I feel I have to bottle/keg the whole batch at one
time.  I feel it might be risky bottling say, 10 gallons one day and the other
10 a week or two later.  Maybe due to the possibility of air being sucked
under the tank lid during the first 10 gallons being drained?  

So far, my record is 136 pints being bottled in one day.  Took about
6 hours by myself.  It's a bitch but it's worth it.    

Mike Spinelli
Cherry Hill NJ    





Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 06:42:46 -0700 (PDT)
From: Steve Jackson <stevejackson at rocketmail.com>
Subject: Oh, come on! (was: De-bunk that funk)

In HBD #2731 (June 4, 1998), Paul Niebergall (pnieb at burnsmcd.com)
writes:


>>>>
A lot of the stuff I see on the HBD is bunk and methinks more than a few
of the most prolific HBD contributors have a bad case of "the emperor's
new cloths syndrome" when it comes to brewing technique.  In other
words they are tasting, seeing, or just plain imagining things in
there beer
that only they are "special" enough to detect.  If you cannot detect
these
things, then obviously you are a......... newby (gasp!). 

See how it works?  Identify a non-existent problem that supposedly only
you can detect or solve.  Keep discussing it (cramming it down peoples
throats) at every possible occasion until you have convinced others
(mass hypnosis leading to hysteria) that it is real.  There's not much
more
to it than that - A typical human reaction to get more attention and
assume a higher position of grandeur.  After all, this is the
internet, isn't
it?

<snip>
>>>>>

Usually, my preference is to stay out of these sorts of things and
confine my posts and/or replies to private email instead of cluttering
up the queue with my ramblings. But I can't let this one go.

I can't argue the point that someone has come away with this
perception of the HBD and its most frequent contributors. A person's
perception is his or her perception. I can argue if it is right or
wrong, however. And it couldn't be more wrong.

In the year and a half or so I have been subscribing and (very)
occassionally posting, I have yet to see any of the juvenile behavior
characterized above from the people who make this forum as strong as
it is. On the contrary, I have found many of the individuals to be
very helpful, either with questions I have posted to the HBD or
questions asked off-line. Yes, some people occasionally get carried
away with their discussions, but they are typically able to calm
themselves down in due time and keep the debate within the perameters
of a civil discussion of brewing and beer.

I will also agree that the forum probably gets itself worked up over
minutiae at times, but from that over-concentration has come some
valuable additions to the store of brewing knowledge. If things get
out of hand, I've learned to use my page down key quite well. I trust
it's a skill most of us can learn with only a day or two of training.

I'd like to go through the original post (both the parts I quoted and
those I left out) point-by-point, but I don't want to waste the
bandwith. Suffice it to say, I don't think anyone is creating problems
just so they can show off how big their metaphorical penis is. Just
because one brewer hasn't experienced problem X doesn't mean hundreds
of brewers don't struggle with it, and vice versa. The goal here is to
further discussion of things that will improve people's beer. Yes,
some of these improvements will make minor improvements or deal with
only details. However, as with any skill and/or art, as a person's
experience and expertise advance, the small stuff is the only thing
left to improve. Some of the small stuff has applied to my current
position on the learning curve. Some of it has not. Some of it wasn't
pertinent a year ago but it is today. That's the beauty of discussions
such as this: I can pick and choose what's pertinent.

Enough wasting bandwith. I just wanted to take the opportunity to
express my appreciation for the "emporers" running around the HBD for
their considerate advice, their attention to detail, their commitment
to experimentation and learning, and their willingness to be of
assistance to thousands of others.

 -Steve in Indianapolis
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free  at yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com



Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 09:41:43 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu>
Subject: malt in bread

Michael Rose <mrose at ucr.campus.mci.net wrote:
>There has been a thread recently about using *spent grains* in bread.
>Malt is so cheap why not use new malt. If starch is a problem, why not
>use crystal malt?

Good question.  It's done in England (Bermaline and Granary are two brand
names of malted meal flours).  One thing to watch out for is to keep the
diastatic and other enzyme levels down.  Too much will result in very
sticky dough.  Using crystal malt would accomplish this, as would cooking
the malt first.  Of course, you're not going to get sweetness with regular,
unmashed malt, so you could mash it first, too.  I think crystal malt is
better.  You still have the damn husk to worry about, especially if you
don't want to grind it so fine that there is no texture left.  I suppose
you could make your own crystal wheat malt starting with commercial wheat
malt and using George DePiro's method recently posted here.  I suppose you
could add Malto-meal cereal, too.

Jeff

 -=-=-=-=-
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan c/o nerenner at umich.edu
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943. 




Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 04 Jun 98 09:49:43 est
From: paa3983 at dscp.dla.mil (Mike Spinelli)
Subject: Weizen extract questions

HBDers,

I'm planning a quickie extract weizen batch w/ 3kg Ireks 100%
wheat LME and 6.6# NWestern weizen blend.  

Questions:

1 - Should I mess w/ the pH of the boil ? Since I'll be mixing the LME
w/ charcoal filtered 7 pH tap water, wouldn't I want the boil volume 
to be in the mid 5 pH range?

2 - Is there enough FAN and other stuff in the LME to produce a good
ferment, or would it be a good idea to do a partial mash with say, 3 #'s of
pale malt and add that into the boil?

Thanks

Mike Spinelli
Cherry Hill NJ 



Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 09:58:58 -0400
From: "Peter J. Calinski" <PCalinski at iname.com>
Subject: Rewiring a motor for 115V.

With Reference to:
> 
> Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 08:34:24 +0500
> From: "Keith Royster" <keith at ays.net>
> Subject: preservative questions / motor RPMs
> 
> Greetings!  Since the bw has been a bit low lately, I'll take this 

[Snipped other subject]

> 
> And now for something completely different.... I recently found a 
> working submersable pump at the local recycle center (what a great 
> place to find cool stuff!) that appears to be for dropping down into 
> a well and pumping the water out. I separated the motor from the pump 
> so that I can motorize my MaltMill.  The specs plate on the motor say 
> that it is made for 230v, and also gives the HP and RPMs (but I don't 
> recall them at the moment).  If I wire it for standard household 
> 110v, how will the HP and RPMs be effected?  I'm assuming HP will be 
> quartered, much like a RIMS heating element's wattage, but I'm not 
> sure about the RPMs?


If it was designed to be wired for 115, you should have no problem, just
higher losses  (resistive) in the wires to the motor.   The way your can
tell is if you can open it up and find a diagram or how to rewire for 115. 
Essentially how it works is, when on 230 volts, there are two windings that
are in series (115 volts across each).  On 115 volts, they are wired in
parallel (again 115 volts across each) so the current drawn is double.  The
power (= V*I) is the same because 230*I=115*2*I.  Since you double the
current requirement, the line losses go up (for the same load).

If yours wasn't designed to be rewired, you will find it almost unusable if
you are going to use it under the design load conditions.  I won't start
under load or if started under no load, will slow way down or stall if
loaded.  If you are using it at a greatly reduced load, you may get away
with it.  See comment below about heating.

> 
> Also (while I'm here) the motor can get quite warm, too hot to 
> handle, after a few minutes of running, and then takes a very long 
> time to cool back down.  Since it was obviously designed to be 
> submersed in water, I'm wondering if it needs to be to remain cool, 
> or if the heating is harmless (to the motor, not to me =). 


More likely the heating is due to the extra current you are trying to draw.
In the equation above you are trying to achieve the right hand side of the
equation and drawing 2*I but instead of the current dividing between the
two windings putting "I" amps in each, you are putting 2*I through each. 
Since the wire size is for only "I" amps, the windings are heating up.

I hope this isn't too technical.  If it is, email me and I'll simplify.

One more thing, a old-timer once told me how the experts tell if a motor is
at the right temp.  If, when you put your hand on it, the first instinct is
to yank it back but, if you try, you can keep it on the motor; it is at an
acceptable running temp.  (I adopted the same rule for integrated
circuits--seems to work.) 

Bottom line, if you are using it at near the same load, rewire internally
if possible.  If at reduced load, it may work in a pinch but you could be
shortening the life.  Judge by the hand heat test.

Good luck.

Peter J. Calinski

PCalinski at iname.com


> 
> Thanks!



Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 09:51:14 -0500 (CDT)
From: Samuel Mize <smize at prime.imagin.net>
Subject: Jack; Brewferm; bread; picnic cooler

Greetings to all.

Lay off Jack unless he actually says something inflammatory, OK?
The inflammatory posts about "debunking" were from other people.

Jack didn't say chilling is needless, just that HE doesn't do it.
(I don't care what he's said before, he hasn't said so all this year.)

Hmm.  The calmest, most rational post in the thread (including mine)
is from Jack Schmidling.  
 - - - - - - - - - -
> From: Tom Alaerts <TomA at BUT.BE>
> Subject: interesting info about Brewferm

> You might find this interesting.

Yep, I did.  Thanks!

> [Brewferm] stated that the contents of their cans are sterile and if you
> really want to boil something, then boil the water BEFORE you add the
> contents of the can,

I've heard that with hopped extract, you boil for 15 minutes to ensure
sanitation AND to get the hot and cold break.

Did you ask him about getting hot and cold break?  I know that some
kits are just malt extract.  However, I've seen at least one that says
you don't have to boil, "we've done it for you."  Is that Brewferm?

I suppose it's possible, if they are actually PRODUCING the extract
(not just packaging it), that they might boil it first.

Or, they may be saying that you can make OK beer without boiling.

Ahoy the collective: how much difference does boiling make?  Is it just
important for making high-quality, competition-level beer, or is it
critical for making decent beer at all?

> But there's another reason that's especially important for their wheat,
> grand cru and jubilee kits: since these contain herbs, you will lose the
> delicate aroma they bring to the kit.

They've got herbs in their wheat beer?

> Greetings from Belgium,
> Tom Alaerts

That's right, rub it in.  :-)

 - - - - - - - - - -
Last digest, Jack Schmidling wrote:

>I think some folks are missing the point of using spent grain in bread.

This digest, Michael Rose writes:

> There has been a thread recently about using *spent grains* in bread.
> Malt is so cheap why not use new malt. If starch is a problem, why not
> use crystal malt? 

Seldom has any statement on HBD been so rapidly proven correct.  :-)

The point is that people feel like they're wasting all this spent grain,
so they do stuff like making bread.

In fact, all the food value has been leached out of the grain, and
pitching it is not wasting it at all.  It's like throwing out the
box after you eat the cereal.  If you compost, that's even better.

Taste some spent grain.  It's the World's Most Boring Cereal(TM).
All the mash sweetness, and most of the grain flavor, is gone.  It's
just chewy fiber.

You can also add Spam to your bread.  Just print it out and grind it
up. :-)  It'll add about as much fiber and food value.  This is what
Jack Schmidling does (per his comment weeks ago on my sig).

 - - - - - - - - - -
PICNIC COOLER: I got a Coleman 48 quart picnic cooler to try
all-grain.  (No affiliation.)  It has good internal proportions,
stood up to mash temperature without warping noticeably, and its
drain is a perfect friction fit for the vinyl hose I got -- 9/16"
outside-diameter, if I recall right.  I was able to just run the hose
through the drain and a couple of inches into the cooler to make
connections.  (I put a layer of tape on the outside of the connection
to ensure against seepage, but I don't think it was needed.)  If you
want to build a manifold, this will make it easy to hook up the
plumbing.  I just wired a choreboy-type copper scrubber onto the end
of the hose.

Best,
Sam Mize

- -- 
Samuel Mize -- smize at imagin.net (home email) -- Team Ada
Fight Spam - see http://www.cauce.org/


Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 11:02:27 -0400
From: "Henckler, Andrew" <ahenckler at findsvp.com>
Subject: AHA Nationals a mess (big surprise?)

Greetings to all, especially Bob at PBS:

>Date: Wed, 03 Jun 1998 08:27:37 -0400
>From: RobertJ <PBSys at pbsbeer.com>
>Subject: re the AHA nationals BIG mess in the NE
>
>Planning for this event was obviously poor, both on the part of the AHA
and
>more importantly the homebrew clubs in the New England area, which run
NE
>Homebrewer of the Year. My understanding was that there were 2 NEHBY
>events
>surrounding the AHA 1st round. After all how many competitions can you
>judge in a month.

I must say that I am less than overwhelmed at the job the hosting club
has done.  After all, if you're gonna do it, you should commit to doing
it right (like making sure more than one of your judges will
participate).  However, I can't say that I'm terribly surprised that,
once again, the AHA has screwed the pooch.

>Perhaps what the AHA should do is consider giving more points and other
>rewards for judges who participate in National competitions.

Handing out rewards might help.  However, there is more than judge
compensation at the root of this problem.  I personally wouldn't judge
the AHA nationals for a cash honorarium.  I want nothing to do with the
Nationals and I have no intention of enetering this competition ever.
They have simply lost my trust and respect.  I know many judges and
rather accomplished brewers who feel as I do.

I should point out, as others no doubt will, that the AHA cannot award
more points.  That is the BJCP's perrogative, and from the point of view
of experience gained, I would certainly be against extra points for
judging one competition or another.


>They might also work with the BJCP to insure there are no other
sanctioned
>competitions too close to the Nationals

I would think that this might be better accomplished by communication
between the AHA and local clubs.  However, seeing as how this has
apparently not been an area of especial competency for the AHA, I don't
see it happening soon.



Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 4 Jun 98 08:32 PDT
From: cburns at egusd.k12.ca.us (Charley Burns)
Subject: Pediococcus Damnosus

I recently made a pale ale that was fantastic (IMNSHO). At least it was 
great for about a week and a half. Then it developed the worst diacetyl 
flavors I have ever had in a beer. The yeast came from a friend at a 
California brewery (not the chico yeast) and I called him to ask about any 
diacetyl problems he might have with it.

He said he didn't have diacetyl problems and that I probably had a 
Pediococcus infection. Bummer. Looked at my notes from the BJCP studyguide 
and sure enough, it talks about this bacteria being a problem in "cooled" 
beer. This diacetyl problem developed after a week or two in the keg at 35-40F.

Does Pediococcus Damnosus survive and multiply (and ruin my beer) at these 
cold temps or might I have some other problem? I still have about a quart 
slurry of the yeast from that batch. Should I dump it, or is it still 
usable? Acid wash cure it of contamination? Or is my brewery contaminated?

Charley (with the diacetyl blues) in N. Cal



Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 04 Jun 1998 10:05:38 -0700
From: "Hans E. Hansen" <hansh at teleport.com>
Subject: Re: Spent grains in bread

Michael Rose wrote:

"There has been a thread recently about using *spent grains* in bread.
Malt is so cheap why not use new malt. If starch is a problem, why not
use crystal malt?"

I used to use crystal malt in a bread machine recipe.  The flavor
is very good, but - as others have mentioned - you tend to pick
little husk pieces out of your teeth.

Hans E. Hansen
hansh at teleport.com


Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 04 Jun 1998 11:07:45 -0600
From: "Scott Nichols" <snichols at digitech.com>
Subject: Two Day Brew

I would be interested in hearing from any Brew On Premises (BOP) Operators 
regarding spliting the brewing process into two days.

I believe BOP operators prepare wort ahead of time for customer use. It is 
stored, refrigerated, for 3 to 7 days. When someone comes in to brew they 
select the speciality grains which are then augmented with the prepared 
wort.

There always seems to be discussion comparing home brewing methods to 
commercial operations. I believe this is an example of a commercial 
operation that would lend credence to a home brewing method.

Scott Nichols


Return to table of contents


Date: 4 Jun 1998 13:33:03 -0400
From: EFOUCH at steelcase.com
Subject: Can't convince 'em? Confuse 'em!


HBD-
I hope I haven't caused any confusion:  I suggested John use his Mr. Beer as a
mini-keg type dispenser, while bottling the other half of his beer.

When I suggested this, I mistook the Mr. Beer for a Beer Machine.  I don't
know if Mr. Beer can handle above ambient pressures, and don't advocate said
use of same without confirmation of the aforementioned end use.

Did I CMA Louis?

Speaking of Mr. Bonham- I concur with his feelings about LMDA counts and
no-chill brewing.  It's a pity J. Schmidling didn't participate with us on The
Great HBD Palexperiment.  It would be interesting to see how his "no-chill"
Pale Ale would have stacked up to the rest of us WRT flavor component judging
and LMDA's.
Not that JS can't possibly make good beer with his methods.  It seems to work
for him.  It might work for most anybody (Even people who load lumber for a
living).  Me, I'll just keep wasting my time with wort chillers, starters,
aeration, sanitary procedures and fermentation temperature controllers.

Eric Fouch
Bent Dick YoctoBrewery
Kentwood MI

PS- I'm pretty sure none of us Primetime Brewers either boycotted or flooded
the AHA NHC in the NE.


Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 04 Jun 1998 14:32:49 -0400
From: ricjohnson at SURRY.NET
Subject: Warm Starter

I usually put my smack packs of yeast on top of my coffee maker to warm it
up for a quick start. This week I put a pack of Wyeast British Ale on it
overnight. The next morning it had expanded nicely but was warmer than usual
(probably high 80's to 90 degrees). Is this procedure harmful to the yeast?
Will it produce enough higher alcohols and off-flavors to harm my beer? I
pitched it to a quart starter and will step it to a half gallon.

Richard Johnson
Mt. Airy, NC



Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 4 Jun 98 14:43:02 CDT
From: jwilkins at wss.dsccc.com (John Wilkinson)
Subject: two day brews

George DePiro was interested in other experiences with two day brewing sessions.
I have done it often with good results.  At least with results no worse than
my one day sessions.  At first I ran the wort to the kettle and boiled the
next day.  Now I bring the wort to a boil before leaving it.  Except last
weekend when a brewing buddy and I overextended ourselves with thre batches at
once and decided to wait until the next day to finish.  In this case we boiled
two briefly and left a stout unboiled thinking souring might not be bad.  We
will see if that was wise or not.  I don't think it soured, though, so probably
no harm done but no gain either.

I think George is right that boiling even briefly is probably not necessary.
He is also correct about the hot break and DMS.  With a pilsner a few months
ago I drew the wort off the hot break before boiling the next day but haven't
bothered with that for ales.

I do cover the kettle before leaving for the night to keep larger critters out.

It works for me.

John Wilkinson - Grapevine, Texas - jwilkins at wss.dsccc.com


Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 04 Jun 1998 15:47:09 EDT
From: jlich at juno.com (John D Lichtenberger)
Subject: No More Mr. Beer!

Hi everyone!

I want to thank everyone who has responded to my last post. THANK YOU!
with out of the way, I would also like to tell everyone that I no longer
need the Mr. Beer kit. I just bought a real kit. I know this is going to
sound like a stupid question but how do read the hydrometer? I made a
batch of Irish stout last night, I can't wait until I can enjoy it. I
must admit, my failure with Mr. Beer didn't make me want to quit, it made
me want to succeed at brewing beer. I still use some of the Mr. Beer
stuff. Again, I would like to thank everyone who has helped me. I am
truly inspired to brew more beer. When I went the homebrew store, he had
5 liter kegs, does anyone have any experience with there? I'm thinking
about using these.

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]


Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 16:15:36 -0400
From: "Jim & Shelly Wagner" <wagner at toad.net>
Subject: AHA-poor planning x2

I see from reading the digest in the past several days that the poor
planning that was done for the GABF roadshow in Baltimore has spliied over
into the NHC. For those of you who don't know, the mini GABF was scheduled
the same weekend as the 2nd leg of the Triple Crown which is always
here(Plimlico Racetrack in Baltimore) and always the same weekend!!! I'm
not sure of the exact figures, but I believe Preakness had an attendance of
around 100,000 people.....not too bright if you ask me. The same weekend
saw a 2 day rock/alternative festival(again...here in Baltimore) known as
the HFS Festival, which also drew a huge crowd. As for me, I attended a
rather small micro fest in nearby Middelton, Va. that weekend. Not  to
"boycott" the GABF, but because this was the 3rd annual fest there and was
announced waaaay before the GABF. The fest I attended was also outside in
the beautiful Shanandoah Valley....a place I'd rather be at on a beautiful
day in May as opposed to the confines of the indoor Baltimore convention
center. And finally, to be honest, I had a problem with the ticket
price....the Va. fest had approx. 15 breweries represented, a far cry from
the GABF, but still a good amount. This small, not well-known about
festival provided a 4 oz. unlimited tasting glass along with musical
entertainment and a complimentary tour of the historic Belle Grove
Mansion(on the grounds of the festival) The fest was 6 hours long and my
wife, myself and 2 friends had a wonderful time. The cost there was $12in
advance/$15 door as opposed to $25/$30 for the GABF....where you recieved
unlimited 1oz(yes 1oz!!) samples for 4 hours. It may seem that I'm bashing,
but all I'm saying is that I feel that the AHA(GABF) could do better
planing and offer a little more for a little less. (especially to those of
us, myself included,who pay to be part of the AHA) Like mentioned in the
6-3-98 digest, the people at the AHA are paid to do their job!! Sorry..one
more thing, although I do not know any of the Boston Wort Processors
personally and only have been enlightend of ther situation surrounding the
NE NHC  by what is here on the digest, I did enter the 1998 Boston Homebrew
Comp. hosted by them. I enter a lot of comps in the midwest and along the
east coast and unfortunately a fair amount of them are poorly
organized/run. This was NOT the case here. Results were posted in a timely
manner and scoresheets were sent out within a very reasonable amount of
time. I was fortunate enough to win a catagory, and was impressed on the
quality and the timely manner in which I recieved my prizes. The prizes I
recieved were not regionally based, which shows me some thought was put in
to prizes that went to "out of towner's" as opposed to local winners. My
hat off to Ken Jucks and everyone else involved in that comp. That's
all...I promise.

<<<<<<Stoney Creek Brewing>>>>>>
**********Pasadena, Maryland********
              Established-1994
              ~~~~~~~~~~~~
    



Return to table of contents

---