---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com


Contents:
  Brewers acid, salt and Yeast nutrient - define (THILO)
  Debunking Momilies (Jack Schmidling)
  Re: Safale (Mat Farrington)
  Debunking "myths" (Louis Bonham)
  re: My Aeration Method---Comments please (John_E_Schnupp)
  js ("Ray Estrella")
  interesting info about Brewferm (Tom Alaerts)
  re the AHA nationals BIG mess in the NE (RobertJ)
  preservative questions / motor RPMs ("Keith Royster")
  e mail address ("Wolff, Robert C.")
  wyeast 1338 (Andrew Stavrolakis)
  Is O2 always O2? (Mark Rogerson)
  All Grain Help Follow Up (John Penn)
  Re: Spent Grain in Bread (Jeff Renner)
  Spent grains in bread (Michael Rose)
  Chocolate Malt in Schwartzbier (Chas Peterson)
  re: the AHA nationals BIG mess in the NE (Jeff)
  re: Mr. Beer (true confessions) ("Hans E. Hansen")
  the AHA nationals BIG mess in the NE (Bob Gorman)
  in defense of the Wort Processors (Jim DiPalma)
  De-bunk that funk (Paul Niebergall)
  Bubbly film.. the Wyeast 1728 saga/Working with Wyeast 1968 ("Riedel, Dave")
  Boycott, Siebels Questions (Jim Liddil)
  FW: AHA national problems in the NE (Lee Menegoni)
  mbaa.com, Pic'n'save (Michael Rose)
  Amarillo hops (Michael Rose)
  homebrew cooking - barleywine bbq sauce (Scott Murman)


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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date:          Wed, 3 Jun 1998 07:51:36 CAT
From: THILO at obp-link.ovi.ac.za
Subject:       Brewers acid, salt and Yeast nutrient - define

Hi Folks,

Could somebody please tell me what Brewers acid, Brewers salt and 
yeast nutrient consists of chemicaly.

Thank you, 

Thilo

( Thilo at obp.agric.za
  http://www.geocities.com/NapaValley/6401 )
  


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Date: Wed, 03 Jun 1998 00:20:41 -0700
From: Jack Schmidling <arf at mc.net>
Subject: Debunking Momilies

For the record, I did not coin the term "momilies", I just brought
it to the HBD.  It is the title of a very funny little book about
all the things we learned from Mom as absolute dogma and found out
later were simply bunk.

I would also like to acknowledge that I spent years making lousy beer
and more years learning how to make good beer.  Most of the learning
was done right here on the HBD.

It is only after one can make good beer batch after batch, using all
the momilies in the books, that one should even think about 
challenging any of them.  With the knowledge of how to make good beer
as a base line, one can then start eliminating the most questionable
and burdensome rituals, ONE AT A TIME, to see if they are worthwhile.

Decoction, wort aeration, chilling and dry hopping are just a
few of the procedures I have dropped along the way.  It is up to
the individual to sort out the momilies.  

js 


- -- 
Visit our WEB pages: 
                        Beer Stuff.........  http://ays.net/jsp
                        Astronomy.......  http://user.mc.net/arf
             ASTROPHOTO OF THE WEEK..... New Every Monday



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Date: Wed, 03 Jun 1998 17:44:51 +0930
From: Mat Farrington <mat at holon.net>
Subject: Re: Safale

Danny Breidenbach <dbreidenbach at nctm.org> wrote:
> 
> OK -- Paul and Mat are raving about the stuff.  Is it widely available
> in the States?  If not --- where can I look if I want to give it a try?
> 
> Thanks,
> - --Danny

I'm in Adelaide, Australia.  My regular brewshop started stocking the
DCL yeats in mid April and they are now widely available.  I'd say just
check through your usual sources.

BTW, the store owner said his supplier had told him that a few UK micros
use Safale.  He couldn't be more specific. I don't suppose anyone can
shed light on this?


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Date: Wed, 03 Jun 1998 03:31:14 -0500
From: Louis Bonham <lkbonham at phoenix.net>
Subject: Debunking "myths"

Hi folks:

Regarding Jack S.'s claim, echoed by Ira, that we can now safely discard our
wort chillers, because he can make perfectly fine beer without one, forgive me
if disagree.

While I have no particular problem with folks challenging any "conventional
wisdom" on any aspect of brewing (heck, that's a lot of what my column is all
about), before you can claim that a universally accepted practice, backed up by
a wealth of scientific and practical knowledge, is "bunk," you'd better have
some pretty good data or other authority to back you up.  Has Jack presented
any?  Beyond his anecdotal claim that he can make his self-described "World's
Greatest Beer" without chilling his wort, I haven't seen any.

Jack, have you ever done a WST on hot wort that you've let sit overnight?  (It
*will* fare worse than wort that's chilled quickly.)  How about assay of its DMS
levels, compared with wort that was chilled after boiling?  A similar comparison
on the stability of beer made from such wort?  (I'd wager it'd suffer from HSA,
but then again if I recall correctly Jack is also skeptical that HSA is any big
deal.)  Etc., etc., etc.  I'll gladly read such data if its forthcoming, but
until it is methinks it to be the better practice to ignore Jack's advice in
favor of that of the scientific community, the professional brewing community,
and folks like George Fix, Al K., George DePiro, and others whose beers are
routinely adjudged as superb by experts.  All of these camps will tell you that
it's essential to chill your wort as quickly as possible (and pitch LOTS of
yeast).

Can you make passable beer without a wort chiller?  Sure, folks do it all the
time.  But as George DePiro alluded, you can also make "passible" beer with DME,
cane sugar, isomerized hop extract, a single packet of Red Star dry yeast,
chlorinated water, and very warm ferments.  Is that what you're after?  Or are
you trying to make the best possible beer you can, using reasonable techniques?
If you are, you should be using a wort chiller.

And, of course, you shouldn't be sparging -- but that is another story!  ;)

Louis K. Bonham



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Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 01:37:58 -0700
From: John_E_Schnupp at amat.com
Subject: re: My Aeration Method---Comments please

Pete,

>Top off the fermenter using the sprayer hose of the kitchen sink.

>Any other potential faults with this method?

I'd be highly suspect of the sprayer hose end being contaminated.
You'd probably be better off with a few gallons of grocery store
water, or better yet, pre-boil and chill some of your own water
just to make sure it's not contaminated.

John Schnupp, N3CNL
Colchester, VT
95 XLH 1200




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Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 04:45:21 -0500
From: "Ray Estrella" <ray-estrella at email.msn.com>
Subject: js

  Hello to all,
Jack says,

>My wort chiller has been collecting dust for the second season now.
>I simply turn off the boiler when done, put on the lid and let it sit to
>cool over night.  I transfer it to the fermenter and pitch the next
>morning and it is still the World's Greatest Beer.
  Jack, I already have one of your mills, can I have your chiller too?

Ray Estrella   Cottage Grove   MN   USA
ray-estrella at msn.com

****** Never Relax, Constantly Worry....have a better Homebrew ******





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Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 12:10:37 +0200 
From: Tom Alaerts <TomA at BUT.BE>
Subject: interesting info about Brewferm


You might find this interesting.
Last weekend there were information sessions etc held by the people who
design and make the Brewferm kits.
I asked the boss whether it was necessary to boil their kits (as you so
often read in articles regarding kit brewing).
They stated that the contents of their cans are sterile and if you
really want to boil something, then boil the water BEFORE you add the
contents of the can, to drive off the chlorine and kill any bacteria
that might be in your tap water (I don't boil my tap water, it tastes
okay and it is known to be germ free, I haven't got nasty surprises
yet.)
He doesn't recommend boiling the kit because caramelisation will take
place if you boil for a long time which will result in taste changes.
But there's another reason that's especially important for their wheat,
grand cru and jubilee kits: since these contain herbs, you will lose the
delicate aroma they bring to the kit.
Anyway, it might also interest you that they are still experimenting
with new recipes for new kits. For example, there is room for a normal
strength (5%) belgian ale (like Palm or De Koninck). I believe they are
experimenting with other styles too, but he didn't share any more
details... Let's hope there will once be a Brewferm Saison!

Greetings from Belgium,

Tom Alaerts


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Date: Wed, 03 Jun 1998 08:27:37 -0400
From: RobertJ <PBSys at pbsbeer.com>
Subject: re the AHA nationals BIG mess in the NE

Planning for this event was obviously poor, both on the part of the AHA and
more importantly the homebrew clubs in the New England area, which run NE
Homebrewer of the Year. My understanding was that there were 2 NEHBY events
surrounding the AHA 1st round. After all how many competitions can you
judge in a month.

Perhaps what the AHA should do is consider giving more points and other
rewards for judges who participate in National competitions.

They might also work with the BJCP to insure there are no other sanctioned
competitions too close to the Nationals
Bob
Precision Brewing Systems URL http://www.pbsbeer.com


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Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 08:34:24 +0500
From: "Keith Royster" <keith at ays.net>
Subject: preservative questions / motor RPMs

Greetings!  Since the bw has been a bit low lately, I'll take this 
opportunity to ask another mead question, although it could apply to 
brewing too.  There are certain fruit juices that I want to add to my 
meads prior to fermentation, but I can only find them bottled with 
preservatives.  I'm concerned that the preservatives will inhibit the 
yeast even when diluted into 5 gals of must.  So I guess my questions 
are: [1] Would the dilution of 12oz of juice w/ preservatives into 
5gals be enough that fermentation would proceed normally? [2] If so, 
at what point might I run into problems with the addition of more 
juice? [3] Is there a safe/easy way to nutralize the preservatives? 
[4] And finally, when reading ingredient lables, what constitutes a 
preservative (ascorbic acid/vit.C)?

And now for something completely different.... I recently found a 
working submersable pump at the local recycle center (what a great 
place to find cool stuff!) that appears to be for dropping down into 
a well and pumping the water out. I separated the motor from the pump 
so that I can motorize my MaltMill.  The specs plate on the motor say 
that it is made for 230v, and also gives the HP and RPMs (but I don't 
recall them at the moment).  If I wire it for standard household 
110v, how will the HP and RPMs be effected?  I'm assuming HP will be 
quartered, much like a RIMS heating element's wattage, but I'm not 
sure about the RPMs?

Also (while I'm here) the motor can get quite warm, too hot to 
handle, after a few minutes of running, and then takes a very long 
time to cool back down.  Since it was obviously designed to be 
submersed in water, I'm wondering if it needs to be to remain cool, 
or if the heating is harmless (to the motor, not to me =). 

Thanks!


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Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 08:36:16 -0400 
From: "Wolff, Robert C." <robert_c_wolff at md.northgrum.com>
Subject: e mail address

Braam Grayling-what hops did you use? Send me your info and e-mail address
 -lost old one due to new server.
BW


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Date: Wed, 03 Jun 1998 08:38:11 -0400
From: Andrew Stavrolakis <andrew_stavrolakis at harvard.edu>
Subject: wyeast 1338

Hi all,

Hans Hansen writes:

"About 12 days ago I make an Altbier (O.G. 1.048) using #1338.
It still has about 1" of foam, and is making CO2.  Will be old(er)
and gray before the primary is done?  Anybody else seen this?"

I've used 1338 three times and each time it took 3 weeks for kreusen to drop
and the beer to clear.  Ferment range of  60 - 65F.  I love the malty beer
it makes though, so it's worth the wait.

Cheers,

 -Andrew

andrew_stavrolakis at harvard.edu



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Date: Wed, 03 Jun 1998 07:52:09 -0500
From: Mark Rogerson <arkmay at flash.net>
Subject: Is O2 always O2?

Is the oxygen that Home Depot sells (where you get propane and MAPP gas)
the same as the O2 you get if you buy an Oxynator(tm)?

Grassy-ass, y'all.

Mark Rogerson, HMFIC
Randy Stoat Femtobrewery
Houston, Texas, USA



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Date: Wed, 03 Jun 1998 09:28:33 -0400
From: John Penn <john_penn at spacemail.jhuapl.edu>
Subject: All Grain Help Follow Up

                       Subject:                               Time:9:05 AM
  OFFICE MEMO          All Grain Help Follow Up               Date:6/3/98

  Regarding my post in HBD 2730, that beer with the strange film on top looked
a little better last night.  The film did not completely cover the top of the
fermenter just the bubbles.  I'm guessing that its from the wheat rather than
some kind of mold.  It tasted fine and smelled fine when I bottled it last
night.
    My final gravity was an incredibly low 1.006-7 from an estimated
1.047-1.050 OG.  Yeast was 1728 Wyeast--usually good for about 75%
attenuation.  I mentioned a temperature of 158F for the mash so I expected a
higher FG.  I'm guessing that either my thermometer is reading a little off. 
OR, since I was pouring hot boiling water in the top of my Rubbermaid/Gott
cooler to raise the temp from about 135-140F to the mid 150s, I'm wondering if
the temperature was not evenly mixed and I was getting a high reading at the
top of the cooler while the bottom was mashing at a lower temperature.  Also,
It was only at the lower temp for a few minutes (<10) while I raised the temp.
 Any ideas on the low FG/high mash temp?  TIA
   John Penn



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Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 10:22:06 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu>
Subject: Re: Spent Grain in Bread

Jack Schmidling <arf at mc.net> wrote

>I think some folks are missing the point of using spent grain in
>bread.

I plead guilty as charged!

>You can not replace the flour with the spent grain because
>there is nothing left that remotely resembles flour.

Of course Jack is right, there is nothing that resembles the endosperm of
grain, which is what makes up *white* flour.  But, ~15% of whole grain
flour, the germ (~2%) and bran (~13%), doesn't remotely resemble flour,
either, but we still call it flour.

My point is that, for simplicity's sake, we can substitute spent grains on
a dry weight basis for a portion (say, up to 15%) of flour in standard
recipes of which specify an amount of white flour while leaving the rest of
the recipe alone, such as my standard 2.5 lbs. flour, 3 cups water. 1/4 oz.
yeast, 1 Tbs. salt.  This does indeed result in something like a whole
grain flour, as Jack  goes on to say:

>What is left however, is roughage and lots of flavor.  So if you
>add a cup or two of spent grain to the cheapest white flour you can
>find, you will make bread that will have the taste and texture of
>expensive, whole grain.

Exactly my point as well.  If you take a standard white bread recipe and
substitute spent grains (on a dry weight basis) for part of the flour, you
can leave the rest of the recipe pretty much the same, and get something
like a whole grain bread, with a part of the cereal mass not endosperm.  Of
course, you can leave the flour (endosperm) portion the same and just add
the spent grains, and then you'll get more bread by weight.  It all depends
on how you want to add it.

The only trouble with using "the cheapest white flour you can find" is that
this will probably be all purpose flour, which has modest levels of protein
(gluten), and not terribly strong gluten at that.  This will result in
denser bread than if you use bread flour, which is higher in protein and
whose gluten is stronger.   Bread made with bread flour keeps longer, too,
because it absorbs more liquid, and is less crumbly.  Probably all good
things by most standards.

>The best way to process the spent grain is to dry it and run it
>through a...  gag... Corona to make a medium/course grist out of
>it.  You can use it wet, right out of the kettle but be prepaired
>to spend a lot of time picking your teeth.

I agree.  I really find it more trouble than it is worth most of the time.
The husk of barley is much coarser than the bran of a grain.  Wheat, of
course, is a naked grain (as is rye, but not oats), with no husk.  Grinding
the husk to pulverize it helps.  Using spend grains from wheat beer also
helps moderate the feeling that you've got chicken feed in your bread.  You
could also use a Corona mill to coarsely grind naked grains and use last
runnings for maltiness and skip the spent grains.

As soon as we get back to 45K of beer stuff, I'll leave this alone.  Hope
it's soon!  ;-)

Jeff

 -=-=-=-=-
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan c/o nerenner at umich.edu
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943. 




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Date: Wed, 03 Jun 1998 07:44:19 -0700
From: Michael Rose <mrose at ucr.campus.mci.net>
Subject: Spent grains in bread

There has been a thread recently about using *spent grains* in bread.
Malt is so cheap why not use new malt. If starch is a problem, why not
use crystal malt? 

Michael Rose   Riverside CA     mrose at ucr.campus.mci.net


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Date: Wed, 03 Jun 1998 11:03:52 -0400
From: Chas Peterson <chasp at digex.net>
Subject: Chocolate Malt in Schwartzbier

HBDers -

After taking a quick review of my brewing logs, I wanted to update a post I
recently made regarding Chocolate Malt in Schwartzbiers.  I had suggested
no more than 1/8# per 5 gallons.  In reviewing further, it seems to depend
on gravity and the residual sweetness left in the brew.  My latest attempt
used 1/3# per 12.5 gallons of a 1.053 beer -- roughly 1/8# per gallon.
Another attempt (actually a doppel that fell short on the gravity end) used
1/2# for 5 gallons of a 1.068 beer -- this was a little high, IMHO for the
chocolate flavor.

Also note that my recommended amount (based on my experience alone --
others clearly like a lot more roasted flavor in their Schwartzbier) could
be increased if a light chocolate is used -- perhaps even doubled.  The
Schwartzbier I'm targeting here is more the kind I've tasted from Germany,
which I think taste like Dunkles with a little more hops and gravity.
Other brewers liken Schwartbier to a "black pils" or  "black IPA".  These I
think lean toward the porter-like end of the Schwartzbier style spectrum.  

Chas Peterson
Laytonsville, Md
- ------------------------------------


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Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 11:36:23 -0400
From: mcnallyg at gam83.npt.nuwc.navy.mil (Jeff)
Subject: re: the AHA nationals BIG mess in the NE

Hi All,

  Another factor that probably contributed to the AHA Nationals problem
in the Northeast, is that the first round judging was scheduled on the
same weekend as the Northern New England Regional Homebrew Competition
(NNERHC).

  The NNERHC is the final competition in the New England Homebrewer Of
The Year competition series and is put on by the Maine Ale and Lager
Tasters (MALT) homebrew club.

  The NNERHC announcement and call for judges mailing says:

"You southerners may think this HBC is out of the way but where else 
can you get apple blossoms, cigars, wonderful friends, all you can 
eat, all you can drink, AND a Bed 'n Breakfast for fifteen bucks!!"

  If I were a BJCP judge, and faced with a choice between Lowell and
Maine, I know which competition I would judge at (and it would'nt be
the one in Lowell).  Of course, YMMV.

                                              Hoppy brewing,

                                              Jeff

==========================================================================

Geoffrey A. McNally                  Phone:  (401) 832-1390
Mechanical Engineer                  Fax:    (401) 832-7250
Launcher Technology and              email:
    Analysis Branch                     mcnallyg at gam83.npt.nuwc.navy.mil
Naval Undersea Warfare Center        WWW:
Code 8322; Bldg. 1246/2                 http://www.nuwc.navy.mil/
Newport, RI  02841-1708


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Date: Wed, 03 Jun 1998 09:47:25 -0700
From: "Hans E. Hansen" <hansh at teleport.com>
Subject: re: Mr. Beer (true confessions)

I don't know exactly what "Mr. Beer" is, but I have been using
the "Beer Machine" for fermenters and serving kegs.  These are
well made 2.5 gallon hard plastic kegs with a pressure relief
valve instead of an airlock.  The "official" proceedure is to
fill with water and dump in the dry mix and yeast packet.  After
10 days or so, put in the refridgerator and drink (via the built-in
spigot).

I have found that you can use them for both primary and secondary
fermenters by transfering from one to the other under pressure by
a hose connecting the two spigots - very sanitary, avoids the usual
syphoning hassles.  The spigot gives the added benefit of easy
sampling during fermentation if you desire to taste, measure S.G.,
or whatever.  I usually just drink from the secondary after putting
it in the fridge.

The 2.5 gallon size is perfect for me because I like to make
frequent batches of different beers.  I don't know how the rest
of you drink your 5 or 10 gallon batches.  It is all I can do to
keep up with my 2.5 batch size. (One per week.)

Hans E. Hansen
hansh at teleport.com


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Date: Wed, 03 Jun 1998 13:34:47 -0400
From: Bob Gorman <bob at rsi.com>
Subject: the AHA nationals BIG mess in the NE

Alan Talman <AlannnnT at aol.com> wrote:

>the AHA nationals BIG mess in the NE

Yes, the AHA has really messed up.  Anyone who is an AHA member or
who has entered the AHA national homebrew cometition should be extremely
unhappy at the mismanagement and poor planing of the AHA National
Homebrew Competition.

>[I gonna get in trouble here]

You should get in trouble.  The AHA Nationals is a money making operation.
Brian Rezac is getting paid to do his job.  People are paying the AHA to
have their beers evaluated. The Wort Processors is a small hobbyist club
run by volunteers. The two organizations don't compare.  This is an
AHA event, not a Wort Processor event.

> Reports from numerous sources say that the Boston based homebrew club,
> which has scores of judges in its ranks, holds a grudge against the AHA,
> and advised its members at the general meeting,  NOT to judge for the AHA
> event.
> Please, if this info can be challenged, please do so here in this forum.

First off, the Wort Processors homebrew club does not hold a grudge
against anyone, the club is politically neutral.

Second, the club never advised its membership, at a meeting or in any
other way, to not judge at the event.  On the contrary, the club has
always encouraged its members to participate in any the event or
organization in any way that they so desire.

There are two areas of failure that the AHA has experienced.  The
first is their failure to find individuals to organize the event.
The second their failure to get judges to turn out for the event.
I'll address both.

The Wort Processors homebrew club was contacted by the AHA in August of
1997. At that time the club President responded quickly and concisely that
the club, as an organization, would not be willing to run this competition.
Of course, individuals were encouraged to pursue this endeavor if
so desired. After that contact, the AHA had eight (8) months to find
another individual or organization to run this event for them.

Additionally, there are many other thriving clubs in the region who
are also capable of running the competition. So they must be bad guys
too.

Perhaps, in the future the AHA might consider finding an event organizer
prior to establishing the event location.

Also, please don't blame the Wort Processors for the failure of judges
to show up.  As any homebrew competition organizer knows, it is necessary
to provide for advanced notice and registration of judges.  I think I
received my judge registration letter only two weeks before the
competition date. Even if the competition wasn't scheduled against a
major holiday weekend and against other prominent regularly scheduled
annual events I would have been hard pressed to make this engagement
myself.

Perhaps, in the future the AHA might consider looking at a calendar
prior to establishing the event date.

Lastly, what Brian needs to help him out are BJCP Judges.  Members of
the Wort Processors club cover a much wider spectrum of individuals than
just BJCP judges.  I have already suggested to Brian that he mount
a campaign to contact all area BJCP judges directly, ASAP!.  This
will be much more effective than attempting to pigeon hole one
of the many area clubs into the task.

>The AHA must bear the ultimate responsibilty for leaving the competition in
>the hands of the 'locals' with little or no oversight.

The AHA did not leave the competition in the hands of anyone.
That is whole problem.

>The Boston Wort Processors must see that their actions, while somewhat
>injurious to the AHA, really hurt the hobby and the individual brewers who
>make up the community of homebrewers.

The Wort Processors did not pursue any actions against the AHA.  On the
contrary the club has been helping Brian Rezac to scare up judges and
supplying him with experienced advise as how to recover from his failures.

>If you live in the Northeast, now is the time to think
>about how you can help. I know I am.

Perhaps if you (Alan Talman) had volunteered to help, this fiasco would
not have happened.  Additionally, your slamming the Wort Processors as a
club, in a public forum, with incorrect, unsubstantiated slander is not
particularly helpful.

Perhaps you could help Brian by volunteering your time to make phone
calls to area BJCP judges to let them know that the AHA needs their
help.  That would be a lot more constructive and useful.

Cheers,

- --
Bob Gorman
mailto:bob at rsi.com
http://www.rsi.com/bob/


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Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 13:38:51 -0400
From: Jim DiPalma <dipalma at omtool.com>
Subject: in defense of the Wort Processors

Hi All,

After reading Alan Talman's post regarding the first round judging of
the NHC at the Lowell site, in the interest of fairness I feel I must
respond.

I'm a BJCP judge of many year's experience who lives only 20 minutes
away from the judging site at Mill City brewery. I am not a member of
the Worts, and have never attended one of their meetings. My personal
decision not to attend the competition was made for two reasons, and two
reasons only.

The first reason was the very questionable decision by the AHA to hold
the competition on Memorial Day weekend. A first-round NHC site will
typically receive several hundred entries. By scheduling the competition
on a holiday weekend, the AHA virtually guaranteed there would be fewer
judges available to handle the large number of entries than if the
competition had been scheduled on almost any other weekend.

The second reason was that there was very little advance notice given of
this competition. The very first time I heard of it was when I received
the judge's registration mailing on May 6, slightly more than two weeks
before the competition date. By that time, I had already made plans to
get together with my family over the holiday, so I was simply
unavailable on that date (yes, beer judges have lives, too). What was
interesting about this was that the postmark on the envelope was April
30, slightly more than three weeks before the competition. Most
competitions send the judge's registration mailing 2-3 months in
advance, specifically to avoid this situation, i.e., judges making prior
commitments. The AHA did not bother to do this until just 3 weeks in
advance of the competition date.

As to Mr. Talman's statement that the Worts advised their members at a
meeting not to judge, I think that is complete rubbish. Several members
of the Worts are very close personal friends of mine, including some of
the very same judges who stand accused of putting their personal
feelings about the AHA ahead of their responsibility to the homebrewing
community. I get together with these gentlemen on a regular basis, at
club meetings and in our homes, to drink homebrew and to discuss brewing
and judging issues. If there had been any plans whatsoever, formal or
otherwise, to boycott the competition I would certainly have heard about
it. Instead, I never heard anything of the sort from any of those
people. 

Mr. Talman also stated "The AHA must bear the ultimate responsibilty for
leaving the competition in
the hands of the 'locals' with little or no oversight." While I agree
with the substance of this statement in that the AHA bears the ultimate
responsibility, it is not entirely accurate to say that the AHA left the
competition in the hands of the locals. About 10 months ago, the AHA
asked the Worts to organize and run the competition, and the Worts
declined at that time. Therefore, it was never the case that the
competition was "in their hands".

What's even more curious, having been turned down by the Worts, the AHA
apparently never made any attempt to enlist any of the other area clubs
as organizers. The homebrew club of which I'm a member, Brew Free Or
Die, has several judges within our ranks, and we have successfully
organized and run a club-only competition for the AHA in the past. I
made some inquiries of the two men who have served as club president
over the past two years, and both of them confirmed that the AHA never
contacted us about the competition, either to organize or to help with
the judging. 

There's another large club a couple of hours drive away in Maine that
has several superb judges in its ranks. I don't know whether the MALTS
were ever asked to organize after the Worts declined - perhaps Bill
Giffin can jump in here.

It's true that the first-round judging in the northeast was a big mess,
and that there are over 200 entries yet unjudged. But, it's completely
unfair to blame the Wort Processors - they declined to organize the
event 10 months ago. The AHA made the decision to hold it on Memorial
Day weekend, not the Worts. The AHA failed to mail the judge's
registration until 3 weeks before the competition, not the Worts. The
AHA failed to enlist the support of other area clubs, not the Worts. If
anyone is anxious to assign blame for the outcome of this event, then
let's place the blame where it truly belongs - squarely on the shoulders
of the AHA.

Regards,
Jim DiPalma
jdipalma at worldnet.att.net



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Date: Wed, 03 Jun 1998 13:14:25 -0500
From: Paul Niebergall <pnieb at burnsmcd.com>
Subject: De-bunk that funk

Ira writes about de-bunking some old myths and I say cheers to that.

A lot of the stuff I see on the HBD is bunk and methinks more than a few
of the most prolific HBD contributors have a bad case of "the emperor's
new cloths syndrome" when it comes to brewing technique.  In other
words they are tasting, seeing, or just plain imagining things in there beer
that only they are "special" enough to detect.  If you cannot detect these
things, then obviously you are a......... newby (gasp!). 

See how it works?  Identify a non-existent problem that supposedly only
you can detect or solve.  Keep discussing it (cramming it down peoples
throats) at every possible occasion until you have convinced others
(mass hypnosis leading to hysteria) that it is real.  There's not much more
to it than that - A typical human reaction to get more attention and
assume a higher position of grandeur.  After all, this is the internet, isn't
it?

I just don't understand why we get so excited about most of this stuff.  I
have been brewing for over 15 years and have brewed hundreds and
hundreds of gallons of beer, yet I have rarely detected many of the
so-called problems that I was supposed to get because I did (or didn't
do) X, Y, or Z.  Of course the usual response I get when I post this type
of rant is that a) I am a slob, b) I  don't have a trained palette, c) I am not
worthy enough to detect such things, or d) some other such nonsense. 
What a load of B.S., like I have rouge taste buds or something.  I can
assure you, I have impeccable taste.

Anyway just my opinion and sorry for the bandwidth,

Cheers again, 


Paul Niebergall
Kansas City


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Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 11:13:20 -0700 
From: "Riedel, Dave" <RiedelD at dfo-mpo.gc.ca>
Subject: Bubbly film.. the Wyeast 1728 saga/Working with Wyeast 1968

John Penn writes:

"My one concern is a layer of large bubbles and kind of milky
 looking film across the fermenter."

I made a scotch ale in December which had the same 
appearance in the fermenter:  big, milky-looking bubbles.
I had never seen a krausen anything like this, so I was a
little concerned.  The batch was split between 2 carboys
and located at two different houses.  Both exhibited this
weird krausen.  In time, it went away just like any other
surface foaming.  In light of John's recent experience,
I'm led to believe that Wyeast Scottish Ale just has a 
tendency to behave like that.  Anybody else seen this?
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
- -------------
I made a best bitter last month using Wyeast Special London
(ESB) Ale - 1968.  Wow!  They mean it when they say 
flocculent!  I was swirling and rousing during most of the 
ferment and I could barely keep the yeast in action.  End result
was a very low 65% apparent attenuation.  

The mash schedule was approx. 105F (30 min), 135F (15 min),
140F (60 min), 158F to conversion plus mashout at 165F.  I
pitched the slurry from a 2.5L starter, aerated by dropping the
wort into a 6gal glass carboy via Bernoulli tube and shaking
the contents like mad for 10 min (foam-o-plenty).

For a typical ale yeast, I would've expected 78-80% AA.  
Where am I likely to have messed up?  Start swirling the 
fermenter as soon as the airlock shows activity?  Try to aerate 
more?

I'm planning to repitch this yeast into a Porter and I'd prefer to
get a more complete ferment than 65% AA.

cheers,
Dave Riedel
Victoria, BC, Canada



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Date: Wed, 03 Jun 1998 11:50:16 +0000
From: Jim Liddil <jliddil at azcc.arizona.edu>
Subject: Boycott, Siebels Questions

>Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 21:29:05 EDT
>From: AlannnnT at aol.com
>Subject: the AHA nationals BIG mess in the NE
>
>Not a knock on anyone at the AHA, but if your interested in the AHA Nationals
>First Round results from Lowell Mass., you may have a long wait.
>
>Here's what happened;

Tale of woe deleted.  I personally do not see the BWP as bad guys.  They
decided not to cooperate with the AHA.  It's about time homebrewers put
their foot down.  If more judges did this the AHA Nationals would sink. The
AHA/AOB depends on the volunteer effort of all of us to make the thing
work.  First the AHA decided to dis the judges and then made a bunhc of
claims about being more responsive and making their own judging program
etc.  They continue to do things like unloading the Classic Beer series
books to a big book store and not notifying the "members" that they can
pick the books up for cheap.  
 
It does suck that the people who entered the nationals and paid money are
going to get screwed.  Isn't it time we make the AHA squirm?  Check the
index of documents at the aob site for all the things the aha/aob said they
were goin to do a year ago.  I know this is considered largely unpopular
but taking a stand always is.  So don't judge in Oregon either. :-)

On a completely different topic, I am going to Siebels in July and will try
to present questions as George and Rob did. So if you have any send them my
way along with the flames.

Jim Liddil  Tucson, AZ.  It's a Dry Heat.


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Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 14:54:06 -0400
From: Lee Menegoni <Lee.Menegoni at digital.com>
Subject: FW: AHA national problems in the NE



- -----Original Message-----
From:	Lee Menegoni 
Sent:	Wednesday, June 03, 1998 12:44 PM
To:	'AlannnnT at aol.com'
Subject:	AHA national problems in the NE

Dude:
Get your facts straight before you start bashing people in a public
forum.

The failure of the AHA regional in New England is the fault of the
profit minded AHA not the Boston Wort Processors.

Facts:
The Boston Wort Processors are a 14 year old club with close to 100
members.
Many members are also BJCP judges with a substantial number of them
National and Master judges.

When asked by the AHA the Boston Wort Processors declined to host the NE
Regionals 10 months ago.
  We host a large annual event, the Boston HB Comp. in February.  It had
about 300 entries this
  year and was the first qualifying event in MCAB.  This event involves
many members 
  and much time organizing.  We have already begun organizing next years
event.  The club seeks to involve
  the New England homebrew community in this event.   We and get judges
from all over New England 
  and New York  as well as entries from across the country.
 
The AHA was aware of The Boston Wort Processors not wanting to organize
the regional event and failed to
obtain any  local organization of the event in the ten months leading to
the event.  
 For example; they DID NOT contact the New Hampshire club Brew Free or
Die which had hosted an AHA club only
 event as well as having has BJCP members that rank from certified to
master and is based closer to the Lowell site
 then the Wort Boston Processors.

Judge information packs were sent to New England judges too late.
 T they arrived about  two weeks before the event which was held on a
long holiday weekend, Memorial Day.

The Boston Wort Processors  NEVER urged folks to boycott the event as
participants or judges.

The Boston Wort Processors members DID NOT send over 100 entries.  I
would be surprised if we sent 10.

The Boston Wort Processors provided a majority of the judges for the AHA
National Cider Competition which
was held at the same site on the same weekend. 

Lee Menegoni
email: Lee.Menegoni at Digital.Com



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Date: Wed, 03 Jun 1998 12:01:51 -0700
From: Michael Rose <mrose at ucr.campus.mci.net>
Subject: mbaa.com, Pic'n'save

I posted a bad URL for_The Practical Brewer_ AGAIN!!
Stephen Ross corrected it for me.  Thanks Stephen.
Goto http://www.mbaa.com/publication/pdf.html

I just got back from _Pic'n'Save_ local discounter in So. Cal.
10 gallon Rubbermaid round coolers are $17.99

Michael Rose  Riverside, CA     mrose at ucr.campus.mci.net


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Date: Wed, 03 Jun 1998 12:40:46 -0700
From: Michael Rose <mrose at ucr.campus.mci.net>
Subject: Amarillo hops

Has anybody used the new Amarillo Hops. Are they just a high alpha
Cascade or are they different or an inprovement?

	When I was at Pic'n'Save (see eailer post on Rubbermaid cooler) I also
picked up some Golden Gate beer. $2.99 a six pack. Excellent beer. 

Michael Rose   Riverside, CA    mrose at ucr.campus.mci.net


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Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 13:04:28 -0700 (PDT)
From: Scott Murman <smurman at best.com>
Subject: homebrew cooking - barleywine bbq sauce


A little bird whispered in my ear that many HBD readers might have
batches of barleywine fermenting at the moment.  It also so happens
that I have about 1/2 gal. of Old InnerTube autolysis-style barleywine
lying around that I can use to experiment.  With summer just about
here, I thought a barleywine might make a good base for a BBQ sauce.
Now, what most Americans think of as a BBQ sauce is really what is
usually referred to as a finishing sauce, since it contains a healthy
amount of sugar in some form.  If you were to use this to baste while
grilling, the sugar would carmelize and burn long before the food was
done cooking.  This wasn't what I wanted to make.  I tried to put
something together that could be used as a marinade and/or basting
sauce.  Please note however, that this is very much a work in
progress.  Reaching BBQ nirvana is a lifelong process, but hopefully
this recipe will provide a starting point, or give you some ideas for
making your own.

The first approach to take is simply to use the barleywine as a
marinade, possibly diluting it with water or some cheaper beer.
Depending on what you're making (ribs!), doing this along with a
basting sauce should provide some interesting flavors (no, I haven't
tried it - yet).  Just remember to try all experiments on small
batches with understanding family and friends first, before trying to
impress you new boss at the company picnic.

The other approach is to use the barleywine as the base liquid for a
sauce (or combine both approaches).  Here's what I came up with,

6 oz. barleywine (hint: a hydrometer sample is about 8 oz.)
3 cloves garlic
1/2 med. size white onion - chopped
1/2 med. size sweet red pepper - chopped
6 - 10 Habanero or Scotch Bonnet chile peppers (or more;)

1 tsp. fresh ground all-spice
1 tsp. fresh ground black pepper
1 tsp. ground cumin
1 tbsp. butter (do not use margarine. margarine is the devil's tool.
                If you must substitute, use olive oil)

Combine the beer, peppers, onion, and garlic in a blender and liquefy.
This should show great head retention:) This may seem like too many
chile peppers, but trust me; it's not.  I don't know where it goes,
but much of the heat doesn't end up on the finished product.  If it
doesn't water your eyes when you try a sample, then you won't taste
any heat after you've grilled the food with it.  Of course, feel free
to ignore this advice if your palate is heat sensitive (or you think
I'm slightly nuts).  If you don't have access to Habs or Scotch
Bonnets in your area, then grow some.  Just kidding.  I guess you
could substitute about 15-20 Serrano or Thai peppers, and cut down on
the simmer time since you'll have a lower liquid-solid ratio.

Take the liquid pepper mush (mine was a nice puke-orange color), and
simmer uncovered along with the butter and spices until the liquid is
reduced enough that you have a sauce.  Mine took about 15-20 min. on
medium-low heat.  The butter is there to thicken the sauce, and also to
give it some stickiness.  This step will not win you any points with
the S.O., so you might want to wait until all small children and pets
are gone, and operate in a well-ventilated room.  This turned my sauce
to a nice puke-brown color.  Cool and refrigerate until ready to use.

It makes about 8 fl. oz., which is plenty for a good-sized BBQ.
You'll note that the total cost for this (minus the barleywine) is
probably about $0.25.  Those fancy sauces they sell in the store for
$5 a bottle have a healthy profit margin.

A group of us BBQ on a semi-regular basis.  I supply the homebrewed
pilsner, and my buddy has a nice Weber.  One of the staples of our
feasts in chicken wings, in some form.  We tested the barleywine sauce
against Jamaican jerk wings and Buffalo wings, and also slathered
some on some potatos.  The barleywine sauce definately held it's own.
It's a sweet sauce, which gives it a nice sweet-heat flavor.  My
friend felt it would go really well with prawns or kabobs, and I can't
really argue with that, although I'd really like to try marinating
some ribs in barleywine, and then basting with some form of this
sauce, while they slow smoke.  

Enjoy,

SM



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