HOMEBREW Digest #2742 Wed 17 June 1998

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		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com

  "best" beer (Samuel Mize)
  re:Keg Conversion (Charley Burns)
  Fermentation chiller idea (George_De_Piro)
  Florida beers (KESimmonds)
  re: Rye Pale Ale ("Greg Pickles")
  Big ol' food warmer conversion (Cory Chadwell Page Navigation)
  De-leading Brass Question (John Palmer)
  Re: Cleaning your nightmare ("Ludwig's")
  Blueberries vs. Raspberries (Al Korzonas)
  Dextrins and head retention (Al Korzonas)
  re: 1) Cellar temp again (NAZELROD)
  Michigan State Fair Competition (Spencer W Thomas)
  Large Double-boiler Mash Vessels ("Rich, Charles")
  Re: Refining Starters (Al Korzonas)
  cooler mashtuns (John Wilkinson)
  RE:  Stuck ferment (Belgian Style) (Richard Gardner)
  re: Alternate Bottle Filling Technique - Vacuum (John_E_Schnupp)
  BJCP style (Charles Hudak)
  PrimeTabs (Jason Henning)
  Correction (Clint Thessen)
  Stirring in the priming sugar or NOT (randy.pressley)
  late addition of dark grains ("Taber, Bruce")
  RE:  Old yeast and long lag times (George_De_Piro)
  dubbel recipe questions (Chris Peterson)
  Spores ("A. J. deLange")
  Re: PrimeTabs (Steve Jackson)
  Attitude; Oops; Words of wisdom (Samuel Mize)
  Dehumidifier as fermentation cooler ("Peter J. Calinski")
  RE: Return of the Son of AHA Bashing (STEPHEN G STROUD)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 09:47:36 -0500 (CDT) From: Samuel Mize <smize at ns1.imagin.net> Subject: "best" beer Greetings to all, and especially to: > From: Dave Sapsis <DAVE_SAPSIS at fire.ca.gov> > Subject: what is best, tell me tell if you think you know ... > The dry stout that won BHC was > best for the final round, but not best in the prelim round. How can > that be? It can't be. People get in trouble by thinking of the beer that won as the "best" beer, as if this were some concrete characteristic that could be detected and recognized. No, the winning beer for a given judging is just that: the winning beer, not the "best" beer. The top beers in a contest are generally like closely-matched teams in a playoff: the winner of one game isn't necessarily the "best." I'm basically agreeing with what Dave said -- and suggesting we try to alter our language to more clearly match the truth of the situation. Best, Sam Mize - -- Samuel Mize -- smize at imagin.net (home email) -- Team Ada Fight Spam - see http://www.cauce.org/ Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 15 Jun 98 08:16 PDT From: caburns at egusd.k12.ca.us (Charley Burns) Subject: re:Keg Conversion Ed Basgall makes some suggestions to Eric in HBD#2739: Hi Eric, In HBD 2737 you asked about converting a keg to a brewpot......... <snip> You'll need to get a tool called a Sawzall <snip> Once you have the hole cut out get a short fat (1"x1") grinding wheel <snip> If you have access to a person or shop that does SS welding you can have a hole drilled in the side, near the bottom and have them weld in a SS 1/4" nipple. (I used SS SWAGELOK parts) You can order a 1/4" SS ball valve from a number of mailorder places (I used McMaster Carr) <snip> Just three comments: 1. Sawzall is a tough one. You will need to find a stainless welder anyway. When you do, ask them if they have a Plasma Cutter. The guy that sold me my kegs does a lot of stainless scrapping and has one of these cutters. It took him 3 minutes to cut the tops out of the kegs and left nothing but some stainless dust behind. And he did it for a six pack of homebrew. 2. The one inch grinder is called a die grinder. 3. A quarter inch ball valve is probably less expensive than half inch, but will take forever to drain. I put half inch in mine, got all the parts at McMaster Carr also (www.mcmaster.com). Charley PS - Hi Ed, haven't seen you post in quite a while. Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 11:27:50 -0700 From: George_De_Piro at berlex.com Subject: Fermentation chiller idea Hi all, I have an idea for a fermentation chiller, but am unsure how well it will work. I welcome input from all of you that know a thing or two about heat transfer. I built a cold box that I keep at ~37F (2.8C). My idea is to keep a reservoir of cold water in the box, with a copper coil running through it. This coil will be hooked up to another coil outside of the cold box. This second coil will be immersed in water in an insulated container of some sort (this will be called the "fermentation reservoir"). The fermenters will sit in the water with the second coil. A pump will circulate the liquid between the two coils. My hope is to keep the "fermentation reservoir" at about 62F (16C). This is about 15-20F lower than the highest expected ambient temperature. I guess i could use a thermostat to control the pumping of the liquid to maintain the temperature. Before I go ahead and build this thing, I figured that I would tap into the collective's knowledge. My guess is that this will be fairly inefficient, but will it be able to maintain the desired temperature gradient? How large of a cold reservoir do I need? How big of a "fermentation reservoir" can I get away with? Are there any formulas, or do I just have to be courageous and do it? What refrigerant would be best to use? Water is safe and easy to clean up, but it does tend to get gross with time. Should I use a little antifreeze? My dog will not have access to the area! Thanks for any info, have fun! George de Piro (Nyack, NY) Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 11:42:41 EDT From: KESimmonds at aol.com Subject: Florida beers A brewing buddy of mine is going on holiday to Sarrasota, some 50 miles south of Tampa, and dreading the thought of some of your worse beers. Does anyone know of any good microbreweries, brewpubs, or decent pubs either in the area, or along the Gulf coast of Florida? Please e-mail replies direct to me, only within the next 2 -3 days. <A HREF="KESimmonds at aol.com">KESimmonds at aol.com</A> Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 08:38:42 -0700 From: "Greg Pickles" <gregp at wolfenet.com> Subject: re: Rye Pale Ale In HBD 2738 Charley Burns brought up some questions about a Rye beer he has brewed. I brew a Rye that is generally very well received so I thought I'd throw in my $.02 worth. I usually go for a little less bitterness (low to mid 30's IBU) but for the warmer months 40 is reasonable for a more refreshing brew. I have been using only malted Rye, no flaked, at about 15% of the grist. It's more than a lot of people use but it produces a beer in which the rye is right up front in the flavor profile. I typically mash at a slightly lower temp (151 - 154F), especially at this time or year. This results in a more fermentable wort and the beer typically finishes about 1.010 (OG 1.055 - 1.060). I get a nice, crisp finish which makes it a great summer beer. (I know a lot of you probably think it is too late to be brewing summer beers but out here in the great Pacific Northwest, we are just beginning to think spring has arrived!) At other times of the year, I will sometimes shoot for a slightly higher FG which gives me a beer that goes well with cooler weather. Your cold break definately comes from the rye. I get 2 - 3x the break (hot and cold) when I brew rye vs. a similar beer without rye. As I understand it, rye is similar to wheat in the amount of protein it contributes to the wort. Because of the increased protein contribution, this beer can have a slight chill haze problem. I have tried a protein rest (20 min at 135F) to deal with it but I was not happy with the results - the head and head retention on this beer are usually outstanding but when I used the protein rest they were not as good as I thought they should be. I have gone back to no protein rest and fine and filter if I want a really clear beer. Since I often do not know when I'll be able to brew more than a day or two in advance, I frequently don't have time to make a starter. I usually use Nottingham dry yeast in this beer and ferment at about 65F. This is a very clean, neutral fermenter which works well in this beer. Hope this helps. Greg Pickles, Seattle, WA Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 15 Jun 98 11:40:47 -0500 From: Cory Chadwell Page Navigation <chadwell at ssd.fsi.com> Subject: Big ol' food warmer conversion Hey all, I recently came into possesion of a large "food warmer" that was previously used by a catering company. It is essentially a huge square gott cooler (about 20 gall liquid capacity) without a drain plug. I'm taking suggestions for the best way to use this monster. A mashtun makes the most sense to me but I'd have to install a drain plug and I don't know how difficult that would be, if even possible. Any light that could be shed on this would be appreciated. Any other suggestions for clever ways to use this bad boy would also be appreciated. Thanks, private emails are fine. Cory chadwell at ssd.fsi.com Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 10:08:58 -0700 From: John Palmer <jjpalmer at gte.net> Subject: De-leading Brass Question Al asked in regard to the De-leading Brass post: > >The brass will turn a buttery gold color as it cleans. If the solution >>turns blue, then the copper is dissolving which exposes more lead to the >>surface, and you have to start over again with a fresh solution. >It's this last part that has me confused. If the solution turns blue >and more lead is exposed, why wouldn't the lead continue to be removed by >the existing solution? This is a good question, and although I knew the reason on Saturday when I read it, I had to wait til Monday morning when I could call my chemist friend who had initially worked with me on the procedure. The short answer is solubility limits and chemical activity loss of the solution (which is redundant). Here is how the solution works: 1. The Hydrogen Peroxide forms Lead Oxide which is soluble in the weakly acidic solution. 2. Copper Oxide is also soluble in weak acid solutions, while Copper is not, thus the brass brightens as it cleans. 3. The solution does not have a lot of H2O2 in it, and H2O2 is unstable. As PbO2 is formed the H2O2 turns to water. 4. Meanwhile, the Cupric Acetate starts forming, which has the blue green color. The formula for this is Cu(C2H3O2)2*CuO*6H2O, it's a complex. I'm sorry, I don't know the conditions for its formation. 5. However, with the formation of Cupric Acetate, the solution is no longer weakly acidic, so that the PbO2 is no longer dissolved and any leftover OH causes the formation of CuO and Pb2O which are black and not soluble in water. To the best of my knowledge, this is how the de-leading solution works. Solution chemistry is not my strong suit. Perhaps Dave Burley with his P-Chem background could fill in any gaps. John Palmer - metallurgist Palmer House Brewery and Smithy http://www.realbeer.com/jjpalmer/ PS: Rev. E of How to Brew Your First Beer* is now up with some added information and illustrations. *the free beginner's document Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 13:36:18 -0400 From: "Ludwig's" <dludwig at us.hsanet.net> Subject: Re: Cleaning your nightmare John Palmer said regarding cleaning new copper plumbing: > It depends on what type of flux you used. Did you use a petroleum jelly > based paste, or a clear liquid type? The jelly pastes need to be > dissolved off with a solvent. Unless you have access to acetone or > other industrial solvents, your best bet is high octane gasoline. Then > you need to get rid of that! Fortunately, hot water and detergent should > take care of that with lots of rinsing. > > The liquid fluxes can be washed off with detergents and water. > > For final cleaning, I recommend white distilled vinegar. > > John Palmer John, I used the paste. I'm concerned about the effects of gasoline or acetone on the plastic (?) seals in the ball valves. They are soldered in place. Do you think a diluted acetone solution would work ok. Say half acetone and half h2O and a 5 minute soak followed by a quick rinse. Also, I'm curious what the significance is of using high octane gasoline. How about TSP? Acetone scares me a little (though I use it occasionly for thining epoxy) and gasoline, well, wouldn't have been my first choice though I used to use gasoline as a solvent religiously back in my dirt bike days. ;) Thanks, Dave L. Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 13:16:56 -0500 (CDT) From: Al Korzonas <korz at xnet.com> Subject: Blueberries vs. Raspberries Tom asks about blueberries versus raspberries in beer. I've used both and quite a few more. Blueberries have a very faint aroma and thus you need to use a lot of them to get a recognisable character. At that, blueberry aroma is sort of non-descript so you may have some trouble identifying the aroma. I have used as much as 2 pounds per gallon (about 250g per liter) and still the aroma was just faintly "berry." Note that this was in a very neutral, pale, low-bitterness beer. A blueberry Porter would probably require 5 pounds per gallon! Raspberries are very powerful. Here, 1 pound per gallon (about 125g per liter) in a pale, neutral beer will give a solid aroma and colour. As for the blend of "woods berries" I have not tried it, but again, strawberries have a very mild aroma and you would need about 2 pounds per gallon (about 250g per liter) to get a noticeable aroma. Blackberries are weaker than raspberries, but stronger than blueberries. Al. Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 14:43:54 -0500 (CDT) From: Al Korzonas <korz at xnet.com> Subject: Dextrins and head retention Scott Nichols writes: >I believe Scott [a different one] is right when he states that dextrins >can contribute to head retention. Meilgaard writes in Chapter 6 of The >Practical Brewer, "It is said that the alpha glucans are important for >foam, body, and CO2 retention", he later continues, "Beer foam appear >to be caused mainly by neutral "proteins" above 12,000 MW associated >with carbohydrates and with hops bitter substances." Recall alpha glucans >are also called dextrins. > >I would also believe the nice head you see sitting on top of a Belgian Ale >is supplied by the addition of sugar as an adjunct. Thanks for the pointer. I'll look it up tonight. I do believe you are mistaken regarding the relationship between sugar and head retention in Belgian ales. The sugars typically used by Belgian brewers are "candi sucre" which is really virtually 100% sucrose. Since sucrose is 100% fermentable, there would be nothing left to contribute to head retention and, in fact, sucrose (as well as other simple sugars) are foam negative and *reduce* body and mouthfeel. Finally, an "adjunct" is defined as a non-enzymatic starch source (like flaked wheat, pearled barley, potatoes or steel-cut oats). The long-lasting heads on Belgian ales (not to be confused with "Belgian Ales" like DeKonnick) are partly due to the fact that they typically are pretty high in OG (so they have more of everything) and partly due to the fact that they are carbonated much higher than most other countries' beer styles. BTW, the person who said Jazz in 6 was half right! Al. Al Korzonas, Palos Hills, IL korz at xnet.com http://www.brewinfo.com/brewinfo/ Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 15:45:38 -0400 From: NAZELROD at tst.tracor.com (NAZELROD) Subject: re: 1) Cellar temp again Tim asks: > >Due to the lack of any response from my first post, I would like to humbly >post my question again about cellar temperature. I have a 1056 bottled >porter that has matured a month, and I would like to lay down at least a >case for 3 months or more to see how it changes over time. My cellar has >remained at a constant 68f this spring, and hopefully into the summer. I >don't have enough fridge space so I'm stuck with the cellar. >Is 68f too warm for an extended conditioning of this beer? Will this temp >merely give it a shorter lifespan or will it have no effect at all? >Thanks. > >Tim Burkhart, >Kansas City I made a porter this past November. It has been stored in the basement. I liked it best when it was about a month old. When it was young it had a harshness. This harshness had mellowed by one month. It gradually changed, not better or worse just different. So, give it a try, it will be interesting. If it has problems (HSA, infection, starch, etc.) it will probably deteriorate, otherwise it should continue to be enjoyable. Gary Nazelrod Silver Spring, MD Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 16:29:12 -0400 From: Spencer W Thomas <spencer at engin.umich.edu> Subject: Michigan State Fair Competition If you're not in Michigan, page down now! The 1998 Michigan State Fair Homebrew Competition entry forms, rules, etc. are on-line at <http://hbd.org/michigan>. Only Michigan residents can win, but anyone can enter. :-) Sorry, this is not our rule, it's set by the State Fair. Entry deadline is August 7. Hard copies of the entry packet will be mailed by the end of June to people who entered the competition last year, Michigan homebrew clubs, and shops. Questions should be directed to the competition director, Stephen Klump, StephenKlump at compuserve.com. Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 13:33:23 -0700 From: "Rich, Charles" <CRich at filenet.com> Subject: Large Double-boiler Mash Vessels Hi all, While leafing through The Walter T. Kelley Co, Inc's recent beekeeping supply catalog (pg 41), I found some great looking 16, 40 and 80 gallon welded stainless steel *double* boilers for use in honey packaging. These look to be some of the most interesting off-the-shelf mash-tun candidate vessels I've run into in a while. They're made to hold honey (or mash!) at sub-boiling temps, and can be heated electrically, by steam or over any hot plate. A belt+pulley driven 3-blade SS mixing paddle ala the "Mix-Masher" is also available for the 40 or 80-gal unit and attaches through the lid. The boiler part is a conical reservoir covering the bottom and extending, pointy side up, to about 1/3 of the height. The boiler has a 1/2" water drain and an external 1" flange for an immersion heater element. The tanks come with a 2" drain flange for the main vessel (glorp valve! [1]). It might be tricky to put false bottoms in them but doable, an Easy-Masher(R) style filter, or slotted ring might be better or else one could simply drain to a separate lauter tun. Prices: Cat. No. 202-S KELLEY'S 40-Gal DOUBLE BOILER - 22 ga. Stainless steel, 21" diam. by 29" high, with thermometer. $215.50. Cat. No. 202-M Mixing paddle attachment. $130.00. Cat. No. 202-C Flat Stainless steel cover. $18.50. Cat. No. 203-S KELLEY'S 80-Gal DOUBLE BOILER - 22 ga. Stainless steel, 29" diam. by 35" high, with thermometer. $255.50. Cat. No. 203-M Mixing paddle attachment. $140.00. Cat. No. 203-C Flat Stainless steel cover. $23.50. These are also available as fully jacketed tanks (40-gal $315, 80-gal $355). The 15-gallon tanks don't offer paddles but come with a cover, an electric 115 volt immersion heater, water reservoir and an adjustable thermostat (50F to 250F) and comes with a 1" flange or optional 2" flange ($6). Price $177.00. I'd love to hear from anyone who is used one of these for mashing. Meanwhile, if you are shopping for a bigger mash tun - I like the looks of these. Walter T. Kelley Co can be reached at 3107 Elizabethtown Rd. - PO Box 240, Clarkston KY 42726-0240. Tel: (502) 242-2012. They are one of the major suppliers for big operation beekeepers (and hobbyists) and have been in business 74-years. [1] Glorp valve, I saw this in "The Buckapound Brewery" in a recent Brewing Techniques, it's just a big drainhole for evacuating the mash tun to a lauter vessel or for cleanup. Cheers, Charles Rich (Bothell, WA) Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 15:38:12 -0500 (CDT) From: Al Korzonas <korz at xnet.com> Subject: Re: Refining Starters Jeff writes: >1. When preparing a yeast starter solution, I have often seen it written >that the (insert your favorite synonym for bodies) of dead yeast make >excellent yeast nutrient. I make my starters in 1 liter increments. How >much (slurry from my carboy/yeast from extract can packs) should I add to >the starter to meet the yeast nutrition needs? Sorry, I don't know. I use 0.1 grams/liter of Fermax... oh, alright, I use a pinch (I used to weigh, but now I just use a pinch). >2. I have also read that yeast should be "started" or stepped up in wort >solution that matches approximately the gravity/bitterness of the wort in >the fermentor. Theoretically, although I never use hops in my starters and have had no problems. The fact is that only a very small percentage of all the microbiota out there are actually sensitive to hops and, frankly, those that are sensitive to hops won't survive in your *beer*. > I have also read that a weak glucose solution with yeast >nutrient is just as effective. I want to avoid having to make a >wheat-containing starter wort for a hefeweizen starter, or to hugely hop a >starter for an IPA. I beg to differ with that assertion. A glucose solution with yeast nutrient will result in a large (larger, I've read) yeast mass, but the resulting yeast may have trouble fermenting other sugars. Each class of sugars (I'm not sure if glucose or fructose do, however) requires its respective enzymes to be utilised by the yeast. If you only feed the yeast glucose, they will "forget" how to make the other enzymes and you will have slow fermentation at least and can have a stuck fermentation. > I aerate with an aquarium stone, and when I use wort, >the foam is a real PITA. What is a good general compromise? I switched to oxygen. It foams just as much, but requires a shorter blast to give the same amount of dissolved oxygen as air. >3. Should yeast also be propogated at the same temperatures as >fermentation, or can I put the starter vessel in a warm dark corner of my >house? I've read both (that temperature matters and that it doesn't). You do have to slowly cool lager starters down to lager temperatures so that they don't get shocked when they hit the cooled wort. >4. How can an amateur without access to methylene blue decide/determine the >viability of the yeast on a slant/in the bottom of a bottle of homebrew? George Fix wrote about this in one of the AHA Conference Proceedings (back when they used to be books). I believe it was at the Milwaukee Conference (1992?). >5. Are there brewers out there who actually would be willing to "trade" >slants? I am looking to build a yeast library when I get my ranching skills >up to snuff, and there is no reason why others can't benefit/help. Sorry... I've got nothing on slants that is not commercially available from the Yeast Culture Kit Co (and even those have not been re-streaked in over two years!). >6. What is the best way to restock beer bullets? I just got a line on an >autoclave (electric) that might use up quite a few of them. I really want >to keep my wife AND the autoclave, if it works out. The best way will vary from SO to SO. Presumably you know what your SO really appreciates and this is where you should start. One thing that works well is to *PASS UP* a beer event to do something with your SO. This pays double dividends. Al. Al Korzonas, Palos Hills, IL korz at xnet.com http://www.brewinfo.com/brewinfo/ Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 15 Jun 98 16:58:39 CDT From: jwilkins at wss.dsccc.com (John Wilkinson) Subject: cooler mashtuns People looking for Gott/Rubbermaid coolers for mash tuns may not realize that Igloo makes a cylindrical cooler in five and ten gallon sizes that works fine for a mash tun. I have a ten gallon Igloo with a 12 inch Phil's Phalse bottom that has mashed a lot of grain successfully. Also, these things seem to be seasonal so if you were unable to find one during the winter, look again now. John Wilkinson - Grapevine, Texas - jwilkins at wss.dsccc.com Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 00:04:34 -0500 (CDT) From: Richard Gardner <rgardner at papillion.ne.us> Subject: RE: Stuck ferment (Belgian Style) In HBD #2735, David Mercer wrote: <I oxygenated the wort - 3+ minutes with pure O2 - and pitched the slurry <from a 1.5 liter starter of La Chouffe yeast stepped up from the dregs <of a bottle. <snip>. When I took <a sample while racking for a gravity reading, my confidence was <shattered: the S.G. was 1.048. It actually tasted great, although <clearly not finished, but I didn't feel like racking again back into a <carboy,,, Definately a bit high, but La Chouffe has an OG of 1.076, so it should be able to handle your OG, assuming that it is bottled with the fermentation yeast. Try stirring up the yeast by agitating you carboy (i.e., give the carboy a shake to two). <snip> My question: This beer needs to drop <another 25 points. I'm willing to wait for 6-8 months, as this beer <(which I've made many times before without problems, I might add) is <really best as a New Year / late winter brew. I've found that many Belgian ale yeasts also need a cold conditioning for the yeast to flocculate (such as Wyeast 1388 - Duvel). MJ's The Great Beers of Belgium (pg 277) says that La Chouffe beers "have a period of cold maturation in the tank before being filled into Champagne bottles." Patience is a required virtue of Belgian style brewers. Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 22:32:04 -0700 From: John_E_Schnupp at amat.com Subject: re: Alternate Bottle Filling Technique - Vacuum >Here's a alternative solution: Get a bottling bucket that has a spigot >at the bottom. No siphon hassles here. Use a drilled stopper and some tubing. Jam the stopper into the spigot (on the inside of the bucket). Cut the tubing so that is just long enough to reach the opposite side of the bucket. When you bottle, make sure the bucket is above the bottles. For the most part, the beer in the bucket will drain into the bottles, but and this is the neat part, when the level of the beer drops below the level of the spigot, you will be siphoning the last few bottles of beer. Works for me, and there is rarely ever more that 1/2 cup or less of beer left in the bucket. John Schnupp, N3CNL Colchester, VT 95 XLH 1200 Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 22:51:26 -0700 From: Charles Hudak <cwhudak at adnc.com> Subject: BJCP style Dennis writes: >It seems that the Study Guide for the BJCP Exam makes it clear it is >important to know commerical examples to common beer styles. My question >is the various study guides seem to list the brewery at times, and other >times the name of the Beer. Which is expected for the exam? It can be a bit confusing. People will say that Guiness is the style example for Dry Stout. Do they mean the brewery or the beer? Actually Guiness makes more than just a stout so it would be incorrect to say "Guiness=Dry Stout." I think this is where the confusion lies. Nothing is taken for granted on the exam. If you want to use a commercial example of a common beer style you should usually recite 'beer, brewery' unless the beer is named after the brewery in which case you should *still* identify it more succinctly e.g. "Bass Ale" or "Bass Pale Ale" not simply "Bass". >Also when dealing with Commercial Styles that have a geographical necessity >in the name for beers sold (such as Lambic, Kolch, etc.), is it then by > >necessity that only those Commercial Styles from that region are looked >for, i.e. A Kolch-style beer out of its region; or a made-like-a-Lambic >from Great Britain. You should only refer to a beer which specifically typifies a style. For region specific apellations like Lambic, Alt, Rauchbier, Trappist etc. you should only use as examples, beers which come from that region and thus conform to style. FWIW Shiner Bock is not an example of a bock (take it from my experience %0 ) Good luck on the exam. It is no walk in the park but it is a hell of a learning experience. C-- Charles Hudak cwhudak at adnc.com Living large on the left coast....... Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 07:56:43 GMT From: huskers at olywa.net (Jason Henning) Subject: PrimeTabs Kevin Peters (kpeters at ptd.net) on PrimeTabs: + I recently saw an advertisement for these. According to the + description, they are 500mg tablets of corn sugar used for + bottle priming. Suggested rate is 2 to 5 tablets per bottle. + Has anyone out there actually tried these, and what were + the results? I used them on my HBD Pale Ale Experiment. I added 4 tablets to each bottle. I used Dave Draper's tables and formulas at the Brewery, scaled to a 12 oz. bottle and found that my beer should have come in at 2.4 volumes. Since the beer is going to be lab tested for co2, I'll be able to report back how well it worked. As far as actually using them, the instructions say "1. Wash hands thoroughly. Dry with fresh paper towel. Touch only bottles and tablets." Uhm, yhea, right. I used a 6"x6" piece of heavy weight paper folder into a 'V' as a chute. I dumped some tabs on a plate, raked four on the chute with a knife and dump 'em in the bottle. One of those pharmacy trays might be really handy. I racked the beer from the carboy to a bucket. Then I filled the bottles and capped. If I had a second set of hands to handle the racking cane, I could have eliminated the bottling bucket step and direct filled the bottles. These tabs'll be handy for the kegger that wants 12 in bottles and keg the rest. The hb shop owner said that the tabs would make the beer foam up and to cap immediately. No foaming problems. I filled about 45 bottles and capped them as normal. Cheers, Jason Henning <huskers olywa net> Big Red Alchemy and Brewing Lacey, Washington Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 06:52:24 -0500 From: Clint Thessen <cthessen at mdc.com> Subject: Correction Hi Folks, Just a correction... the beer was a dunkle weizen the yeast was wyeast bavarian weizen. Obviously some sort of vision/finger/keyboard dysfunction. See Ya! Clint Thessen O'Fallon, MO (Waiting for the Cards to climb over .500) Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 8:41:33 -0500 From: randy.pressley at SLKP.COM Subject: Stirring in the priming sugar or NOT I've noticed thru friends and the digest that some people stir in their priming sugar before they bottle. Everyone I spoke with adds the priming mixture to the bottling bucket then adds the brew from the secondary or primary to the bucket. I have bottled this way without stirring and have had no problems with bottle carbonation. It seems like a needless risk to stir after adding priming sugar. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 08:52:40 -0400 From: "Taber, Bruce" <Bruce.Taber at nrc.ca> Subject: late addition of dark grains In Tuesday's HBD, Larry Smith stated that he used a late mash addition of dark grains to his stout and it seems to have resulted in a smoother, less bitter beer. I too have tried this with my Oatmeal Stout. Back when I was doing partial mashes I did late additions of the dark malts and the result was great. I now make the same recipe all grain but I haven't used the late additions. I mash the total grain bill together. It seems that the bitterness associated with the dark grains acts similar to the bitterness of hops. In other words, a short mash will give you the flavor and colour but not the bitterness. Of course you will miss some of the starch conversion of the dark grains but you can simply add a bit more pale malt to compensate. Any opinions on this? Bruce Taber Almonte, Ont. Canada Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 09:36:08 -0700 From: George_De_Piro at berlex.com Subject: RE: Old yeast and long lag times Hi all, The recent rants of certain people have made this disclaimer necessary: the following post involves talking about off flavors and aromas which some readers may find controversial. If you believe that nothing you do can hurt your beer, *page down now*: David describes his experiences growing up some really old yeast. The lag time was quite lengthy in his starter. He wonders about the cause of this, and tells us that he has read about surviving spores. I don't know much about the conditions that will cause Saccharomyces to sporulate (is there a microbiologist in the house?), but the explanation is similar, with or without spores. Almost all of the yeast in the sample was dead. You pitched it into some wort, and it eventually grew. Why did it take so long? Because you were severely underpitching. Only a few cells were viable. These had to reproduce for a while before they reached a population large enough to cause noticeable activity. The few surviving cells were probably in really poor shape, too. Maybe even mutated from their original form. A long lag in your starter is not inconsequential. In fact, that is probably the most important stage of yeast culturing with regards to keeping things clean and "by the book." Unless you were working in a nearly sterile (yes, sterile) environment, other bugs are in there competing with a very small and weak yeast population. Even a small wild yeast or bacterial presence at that stage will get multiplied by the time you are ready to pitch your production wort. Pitching it can be disastrous. If you have an old sample of a precious yeast that you want to save, plating it out or growing it in a very small amount (5 mL) of autoclaved wort is the best way to go. If you want to try using the yeast that you have, taste the starter first! If it tastes fine, then you may want to be courageous and give it a shot. Just be aware of the potential problems. If the starter is in the least bit off (phenolic, high diacetyl, vegetable-like, etc.), I would not be so bold as to use it (actually, I have been so bold in the past, and have learned that such wrecklessness yields flushable results). Slight off characters in the starter are usually multiplied significantly in the production wort. Have fun! George De Piro (Nyack, NY) Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 09:53:42 -0400 From: Chris Peterson <peterson at ucmg65.med.uc.edu> Subject: dubbel recipe questions I have some questions for you all, I'm brewing my first belgian dubbel. I have read the classic book on belgian beers and have decided to base my recipe off one in the book. The recipe calls for: 9.5 lbs pale 4 oz crystal malt 4 oz brown malt 0.75 lb candi sugar The recipe says the color should be 14oL. My understanding from reading the book is that dark candi sugar is used in brewing dubbels. Here are my questions: He doesnt state what color crystal in this recipe, or whether the candi sugar is dark or light. It seems to me that if one used dark crystal, brown malt and dark candi sugar, that this would be darker than 14oL. Given your expertise, what kind of crystal and candi sugar does this recipe refer to? Any info apreciated. private emails ok Christopher Peterson peterson at molgen.uc.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 08:59:06 -0500 From: "A. J. deLange" <ajdel at mindspring.com> Subject: Spores David Lamotte asked about brewing yeast spores. Brewers yeast is an ascospore but I have always been given the impression that it is rather difficult to get it to sporulate - i.e. that this never happens in the brewery but rather only in the laboratory where special media are used to induce it. It is pretty well known in HBD land that yeast stored under water or beer for a year or longer are still viable though the number of viable cells is a tiny fraction of the number originally stored. Thus I'm guessing that the starter in question grew from live cells which, as they were very few in number and starved, took a long time to grow to a density where the action was visible. I have never seen an ascus or a spore but then I've never really gone looking for them. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 07:33:07 -0700 (PDT) From: Steve Jackson <stevejackson at rocketmail.com> Subject: Re: PrimeTabs In HBD #2741 (June 16, 1998), Kevin Peters writes: >>>>> I recently saw an advertisement for these. According to the description, they are 500mg tablets of corn sugar used for bottle priming. Suggested rate is 2 to 5 tablets per bottle. Has anyone out there actually tried these, and what were the results? <<<<< I'm just now starting to drink an IPA I primed using a sample of PrimeTabs given to me by my local brewshop proprietor. I was pleased. The tabs did their job: the beer is carbonated. For me, the nicest thing about the Prime Tabs is that I didn't have to mess around with preparing a priming solution and racking my beer to another container so the priming solution could be mixed in. As much as I love brewing, I absolutely hate bottling (and my apartment doesn't afford me room for kegging). Granted, preparing the bottles is the bigger hassle than preparing/mixing priming solution, but anything to shorten the process is fine by me. Using the tabs was very easy: After the bottles were sanitized and emptied, I dropped the appropriate number into each bottle (3 for 12 oz., 6 for 22 oz.) Then I siphoned the beer into the bottles. A few "warnings" about Prime Tabs' use (most of these are echoed on the information sheet that comes with them). Make sure your beer is flat. The tabs provide nucleation sites, and you'll get some foaming. My beer was fairly flat, but I still foamed a bit. Nothing major, and nothing that caused me to lose volume in the bottle. I was just left with a foam ring in the neck for a few days that disappeared as the beer conditioned. Because of the foaming potential, don't drop the tabs into a full bottle of beer. The result was exactly the level of carbonation I expected for the amount I used (according to the info sheet, 2 tabs per 12 oz. will get you a "cask-conditioned" level of carbonation, 3 oz. a low-to-middle, and 4 or 5 tabs a fizzy beer), with a nice, quick head formation that sticks around a while. I'm not going to use them for every batch (I need to do something with that 3 pound bag of corn sugar I just bought), but I will almost certainly use them again. -Steve in Indianapolis _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free at yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 09:32:52 -0500 (CDT) From: Samuel Mize <smize at ns1.imagin.net> Subject: Attitude; Oops; Words of wisdom > From: Paul Niebergall <pnieb at burnsmcd.com> > Subject: Attitudes > > What particularly annoys me is the > attitude of a few individuals who think it is their sole responsibility in >life > to respond to every question posted in the HDB. Like it is their job or > something. I don't know how many times I've have read a post that > begins like this: > > "Sorry I haven't been able to get to all of your posts lately. I've been on > vacation (busy at work, in the hospital, whatever). I will try to answer all > of the posts over the next few days, so please be patient........" > > Like anyone gives a rats *ss. By Ghu, you're right. Let them wait in the dark. If they realize they'll get help eventually, they'll just ask another question. In fact, we shouldn't answer their questions at all. Can't they read books? So folks, remember: never apologize, never explain. And none of us here cares about your personal life. You don't have to explain why you're responding to antique threads: you have Paul's permission. > All of the head bashing from those up on high causes homebrewers to > believe that they cannot possibly brew good beer and that all of their > hard efforts will be rewarded with crummy beer. This would be more convincing if it were ever raised after a newbie was told to do a bunch of hard things. No, it's generally raised after a hard-fought debate between long-term, hard-core hobbyists has made it clear that there are opinions on both sides of the issue. > It is not the information that I dispute, it's the delivery. So we shouldn't warn people about possible problems, even if we're right? Or are you suggesting that we should censor our discussions among ourselves in case the "children" are listening? > I have impeccable taste and will > render my personal opinion on your beer. Also, please enclose a check > for $200 dollars with each sample Take your unsolicited commercial email elsewhere, you dirty spammer. - - - - - - - - - - > From: Anthony Capocelli <acapocelli at pol.net> > Subject: Oops ! [siphon mishap story] > Question, is there anyone else as dopey as I ? Well, Tony, we all have accidents like that. However, as far as admitting them in a public, archived forum... :-) When I brewed an herb beer for the Bluebonnet Brew-Off, I did at least realize before I sealed the fermenter that I hadn't added the herbs... I had to re-boil part of the wort with them, after chilling it all..... There, now there are two of us......... Oh no, I've come down with perioditis (Gump syndrome).......................... - - - - - - - - - - > From: Bill Giffin <billg at ctel.net> > Subject: Words of wisdom > > "Sour flavors - Don't blame the products, Face up to the fact that your > procedures are not sanitary enough. Bacteria infections often enhanced by > warm brewery temperatures, and sluggish fermentiations is to blame for sour > beer. " > > Isn't that advice just wonderful? Bill, who are you quoting -- Frank Boon? Is it wrong? I don't understand your point. Best, Sam Mize - -- Samuel Mize -- smize at imagin.net (home email) -- Team Ada Fight Spam - see http://www.cauce.org/ Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 10:12:16 -0400 From: "Peter J. Calinski" <PCalinski at iname.com> Subject: Dehumidifier as fermentation cooler I recently "liberated" a dehumidifier. It has all the working parts that a fridge does but the principle of operation is different. In a fridge, they cool a confined space with little (preferably no)air circulation except within the space. In contrast, a dehumidifier wants to pull the maximum volume of air past the evaporator coil. As a result, I am having a problem getting the heat from the space I want to cool over to the evaporator (Or if you prefer, getting the "cool" from the evaporator coil to the wort.) Note: The evaporator is constructed of about 3/8" aluminum tube shaped like a flat coil. It is about 9" high by 9" wide but flattened to about 2". End of note One alternative is to bond a thermal mass to the coil to increase the effective surface area. I will use this method if I decide to build a "fridge". The other alternative I am considering (and need help with) is just cooling the fermenter. Perhaps covering it with a "blanket" and somehow getting the "cool" inside the blanket. Can anyone point me to methods of doing this? TIA Pete PCalinski at iname.com Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 13:02:17 -0400 From: STROUDS at POLAROID.COM (STEPHEN G STROUD) Subject: RE: Return of the Son of AHA Bashing Hi All, In HOMEBREW Digest #2741 Tue 16 June 1998, "Mark S. Johnston" <msjohnst at talon.net> said: > This year the problem [with the AHA First Round in the > Northeast] appeared to be that either no one volunteered, > or the volunteers pulled out. In either case, the > specific fault of the AHA, as I see it, was in not > lining up a backup. >From my viewpoint the problem was the former, not the latter. The AHA scheduled a place/date for the First Round judging in the Northeast before getting the necessary volunteers. Our club was asked to do the organization back in August 1997 and we gave the AHA an immediate and very clear NO (what part of that answer did they not understand?). Apparently the ensuing 8 months weren't long enough for them to find another northeast club to organize the competition. I find it disturbing that the AHA decided to bash the Worts for the AHA's own shortcomings (gotta point the finger at someone else I guess). I sincerely hope that Brian Rezac will publicly address this point when he returns to his keyboard. Steve Stroud The Boston Wort Processors (see http://www.wort.org/ for club info) CC: Brian Rezac Return to table of contents
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