HOMEBREW Digest #2743 Thu 18 June 1998

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		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com

  REMINDER:  Summer Cap-Off '98 ("RANDY ERICKSON")
  Attitudes (bob farrell)
  Wyeast 1968, Special London (Jeffrey_Glenn_York/UTK)
  Good brew doggie, unstuck ferment, AHA/NHC bashing ("Michel J. Brown")
  Colour (Al Korzonas)
  Head retention (Al Korzonas)
  Attitude (Al Korzonas)
  BJCP exam (Al Korzonas)
  RE Trip to England ("Bill Jackson")
  AHA NHC ("Brian Rezac")
  Re:Attitudes (irajay)
  RE: Fermentation chiller idea (Darren Scourfield)
  Re: Blueberry vs. Raspberry (Tom Alaerts)
  Re: clone recipes (Tom Alaerts)
  Brewing On The Open Sea ("Keith & JoAnn Zimmerman")
  Strange Mash Tuns  :  ) ("S. Wesley")
  Fermentation Chiller Idea (Ken Schwartz)
  Jack's PU, my PU, and just plain P.U. ("Dr. Pivo")
  Sour notes in beer ("David M. Campbell")
  Dehumidifier (fridge)
  Stirring Primer (EFOUCH)
  Mashing equipment (Bill Giffin)
  Sour grape flavors (Samuel Mize)
  Re: Fermenter temp control ("Jim Busch")
  Big 'ol food warmer (mash tun) (Mike Spinelli)
  Re: stuck fermentation (Hutch)
  re: re: Alternate Bottle Filling Technique - Vacuum ("Peter J. Calinski")
  Rye Pale Ale Recipe (Charley Burns)
  RE: Fermentation chiller idea (LaBorde, Ronald)
  Why cani sugar in Blegian brews? (Mike Spinelli)
  cleaning flux off of copper pipe (Wade Hutchison)

BUZZ's Buzz-Off competition is June 27-28. Information is available at www.voicenet.com/~rpmattie/buzzoff or via R. Mattie at rpmattie at voicenet.com. NOTE NEW HOMEBREW ADDRESS: hbd.org Send articles for __publication_only__ to post@hbd.org (Articles are published in the order they are received.) If your e-mail account is being deleted, please unsubscribe first!! To SUBSCRIBE or UNSUBSCRIBE send an e-mail message with the word "subscribe" or "unsubscribe" to request@hbd.org. **SUBSCRIBE AND UNSUBSCRIBE REQUESTS MUST BE SENT FROM THE E-MAIL **ACCOUNT YOU WISH TO HAVE SUBSCRIBED OR UNSUBSCRIBED!!! IF YOU HAVE SPAM-PROOFED your e-mail address, the autoresponder and the SUBSCRIBE/UNSUBSCRIBE commands will fail! For "Cat's Meow" information, send mail to brewery at hbd.org Homebrew Digest Information on the Web: http://hbd.org Requests for back issues will be ignored. Back issues are available via: Anonymous ftp from... ftp://hbd.org/pub/hbd/digests ftp://ftp.stanford.edu/pub/clubs/homebrew/beer AFS users can find it under... /afs/ir.stanford.edu/ftp/pub/clubs/homebrew/beer JANITORS on duty: Pat Babcock and Karl Lutzen (janitor@hbd.org)
---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 10:20:01 -0700 From: "RANDY ERICKSON" <RANDYE at mid.org> Subject: REMINDER: Summer Cap-Off '98 It's a Cap-Off, Jack! REMINDER: The Stanislaus Hoppy Cappers, Ceres, California invite you to enter Summer Cap-Off 1998, our AHA-sanctioned homebrew competition. See http://www.jps.net/randye/capoff98.htm for full details, forms, and the AHA style guidelines. Now accepting entries until June 27, 1998. Judging will be on Sunday, July 12, 1998 at 9:00 a.m. Call Wayne Baker at (209) 538-BREW or BarleyLW at aol.com Judges welcome. Contact Randy Erickson at (209) 526-7491 or randye at mid.org Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 10:15:32 -0700 (PDT) From: bob farrell <bfarrell at windermere.com> Subject: Attitudes This lurker is grateful to those individuals who frequently respond to questions by replying directly through HBD. You've helped me increase my knowledge of brewing techniques and improve the quality of my beer. Thanks for making this hobby more enjoyable for me. Bob Farrell Portland, OR Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 14:29:37 -0400 From: Jeffrey_Glenn_York/UTK at ln.utk.edu Subject: Wyeast 1968, Special London I've brewed approx. 30 batches of all-grain beer over the last year, and had two become, what is in my opinion, infected. Both of these were attempts at ESB using Wyeast 1968, Special London. Now, this could just be an coincidence, but I'm wondering if anyone else has had this kind of experience. The infection makes the the beer appear cloudy in the secondary with sluggish fermentation. Flavors are metallic and sour/lactic - similar to a young plambic exposed to untreated steel. Blech! This is really annoying because now I've got 10 gallons of the stuff. Any advise, similar experiences, etc? Jeff York Knoxville, TN Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 11:40:05 -0700 From: "Michel J. Brown" <homemade at spiritone.com> Subject: Good brew doggie, unstuck ferment, AHA/NHC bashing Got a new puppy the other day -- a Jack Russell Terrier. While I was brewing, the little guy lapped up some boiled over wort on my back porch. He seemed to like it, and it caused no ill effects, other than to clean up my deck a little. On a related note, he also found my slug bait saucer (Bud Light), and sniffed it, growled at it, then turned around and peed on it! Maybe he's a critic, or just doesn't like "lite" beers. Either way the slugs are gone, and I have a nice brew dog. Thanks to AlK, JeffR, and all the numerous others (too numerous to count -- TNTC), my Belgian Strong Ale (Dominator) is back on track. Apparently, with the coming of Spring, the temperature changes allowed me to turn off the gas heat and it dropped from 72 to 68. Not too bad for me, but for the Wyeast 'lil wee beasties, it may have made a difference. But at any rate, I upped the temperature to 72, used 2 oz of Amylase, 2 pkgs. of Danstar Nottingham yeast, and 4 oz of yeast energizer. This got things rolling again, and the ferment is slow but steady, and getting down to 1.040 as I type (I'm hoping for at least 75% AA and an FG of 1.038). Will all the contestants in the latest diatribe please go to a neutral corner for a 10 count time out? Having read all the personal attacks, defenses, accusations, and assertions, all I can say is if you don't like what the AHA/NHC does, then *DO* something about it! Cancel your membership, send snail mail to the director (they're required to keep regular mail for 5 years since they are a nonprofit corporation), organize the other dissenters. I was raised to take complaints to the source, and if that doesn't work, then go to a mutually respected authority (incorporation department of the local secretary of state will do), if that fails, *then* go to the public venue and vent your spleen publicly for open discourse. 'Nuff said? Good, then let's get on with beer brewing, tasting, and judging...btw, what about an updated sensorineural map of the tongue? Ttyal, God Bless, and ILBCNU! Dr. Michel J. Brown, D.C. {Portland, OR} 2222 miles due west of Jeff Renner homemade at spiritone.com http://www.spiritone.com/~homemade/index.html "In the field of observation, chance favors only the prepared mind" L. Pasteur Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 13:57:19 -0500 (CDT) From: Al Korzonas <korz at xnet.com> Subject: Colour AJ writes: >Color relationships (H.B.S &Y, p 811): > >EBC = 2.65*SRM - 1.2 > >SRM = 0.375*EBC + 0.46 H.B.S.&Y. is a little dated on this point. Since about 1987 the formula has been: EBC=1.97*SRM. Al. Al Korzonas, Palos Hills, IL korz at xnet.com http://www.brewinfo.com/brewinfo/ Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 14:28:21 -0500 (CDT) From: Al Korzonas <korz at xnet.com> Subject: Head retention Dave quotes Charlie Bamforth: >"Second, any foaming during the >process [fermentation] reduces the amount of material that will survive to >support the head on the finished beer in the glass. <snip>" I don't disagree with this, but it is important to keep everything in perspective. In my blowoff-vs.-nonblowoff experiment that was written up in Brewing Techniques, I had the lab (Siebel) test for protein. The amount of protein that was lost was a very small percentage and the resulting beers had no difference in head retention as judged by a number of BJCP judges (some National and Master). Around one quart of beer was lost to blowoff (about 5%) so these were not wimpy fermentations. Now, since then, there has been mention of the fact that whether the kraeusen falls back in or is removed from the fermenter may not make a big difference in protein content or head retention, there may be a big loss simply from the foaming itself. While this may be true, ALL the test beers had excellent, long-lasting heads, including the 1.048 OG American Pale Ale. So, while it may be true that foaming earlier in the brewing process reduces head retention potential, I don't think there is a big concern for our all-malt beers, which seem to have more than enough head retention potential, as long as we do everything else right (watch sanitation, don't use extended 122F protein rests, don't use excessive amounts of refined sugar, etc.). *** Getting back to Scott's referencing The Practial Brewer regarding the role of dextrins in head retention, I did look up that point and indeed it is mentioned. In my edition, it didn't say alpha-glucans, but rather simply carbohydrates. I also checked several other books and found in Malting and Brewing Science (p.269): "...glycoproteins may act as foam stabilizers" and it referenced Anderson, F.B. (1966) J. Inst. Brewing, 72, 384 for this concept. (Glycoproteins are made from carboydrates and proteins.) In neither of my two sources (unlike Scott's) are dextrins named specifically, but it would not be unreasonable to presume they were. Al. Al Korzonas, Palos Hills, IL korz at xnet.com http://www.brewinfo.com/brewinfo/ Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 14:54:32 -0500 (CDT) From: Al Korzonas <korz at xnet.com> Subject: Attitude Paul writes: >Cheers! My sentiments exactly. What particularly annoys me is the >attitude of a few individuals who think it is their sole responsibility in life >to respond to every question posted in the HDB. Like it is their job or >something. I don't know how many times I've have read a post that >begins like this: > >"Sorry I haven't been able to get to all of your posts lately. I've been on >vacation (busy at work, in the hospital, whatever). I will try to answer all >of the posts over the next few days, so please be patient........" > >Like anyone gives a rats *ss. Anyway, when I challenge these people >(and you know who they are), I usually get a very noble response that >goes something like this: > >"I care about home brewing and I am just trying to help further the hobby. <snip> Clearly I'm one of "these people" that Paul refers to and I have probably written to him one of those "something like this" "noble" responses. I have never made brewing more difficult than it has to be (as Paul implies that "people" like me do). Rarely do I say "you must" or "it is required," but rather I warn "if you are having trouble with..." or "if you do this, you should be careful not to..." The fact of the matter is that while I was off in the hospital, 20 or 30 questions went unanswered. If you would have gotten off your high horse and answered a few questions, perhaps I would not have had to. I don't feel that answering HBD quesions is my sole responsibility in life, but rather it is *all* our responsibility as a homebrewing community. It's just that I take that responsibility more seriously than you do, obviously. You are the person with the attitude problem, so stop wasting bandwidth and belitting the work of others. I suggest heckling some soup kitchen or sandbagging volunteers in stead... there you can't hide behind your terminal. Al. Al "one of these people and proud of it" Korzonas Palos Hills, IL korz at xnet.com http://www.brewinfo.com/brewinfo/ Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 15:14:45 -0500 (CDT) From: Al Korzonas <korz at xnet.com> Subject: BJCP exam Dennis writes: >It seems that the Study Guide for the BJCP Exam makes it clear it is >important to know commerical examples to common beer styles. My question >is the various study guides seem to list the brewery at times, and other >times the name of the Beer. Which is expected for the exam? Enough to identify the beer clearly. "Old Speckled Hen" is probably enough without "Morland's" and frankly, I can't remember the brewer of "Dos Equis," but you'll have to include the brewery in "Fuller's ESB" or "Pabst Blue Ribbon." It certainly wouldn't hurt, though. >Also when dealing with Commercial Styles that have a geographical necessity >in the name for beers sold (such as Lambic, Kolch, etc.), is it then by >necessity that only those Commercial Styles from that region are looked >for, i.e. A Kolch-style beer out of its region; or a made-like-a-Lambic >from Great Britain. If you simply gave a minimal answer to each question, I don't think you would get more than an 89. One key to getting 90+ is showing "depth of knowledge." If I were scoring an exam and someone brought up the fact that there is a beer made in Great Britain that is made with similar microbiota as a Lambic, I would consider that showing depth of knowledge and it would contribute to their receiving a 90+ score from me. Al. Al Korzonas, Palos Hills, IL korz at xnet.com http://www.brewinfo.com/brewinfo/ Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 17:04:24 PDT From: "Bill Jackson" <jackew at hotmail.com> Subject: RE Trip to England Hi Wade, If you're going to York try "The Maltings" http://www.maltings.co.uk. It was excellent when we were there in February. Good British Ales and Belgians. Also try http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/petef/beer.html for lots of good York pubs. Bill J Adelaide, South Australia ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 18:54:58 -0600 From: "Brian Rezac" <brian at aob.org> Subject: AHA NHC Fellow HBDers, There's been a lot of discussion about the AHA's National Homebrew Competition (NHC), especially the First Round Site in Lowell, Mass. With this discussion, there has been some misunderstandings and finger-pointing. So let me attempt to clear up some of this. (I will also respond to some of you individually.) First of all, the Lowell, Mass. First Round Site is not a failure or debacle. To me, failure would be not taking the best care of the entries or rushing through the judging with sub-par judging. I will not let that happen. It will take longer to judge the entries than anticipated, but all the entries will be treated properly and be judged by the best judges possible, BJCP certified judges. The judging will be completed by next weekend. Secondly, the Boston Wort Processors are not responsible for this delay. I had mistakenly said that they, as a club, were boycotting the NHC. But Jeff Flood, BWP President assured me that there was no organized boycott. We knew of the animosity toward the AHA by some homebrewers in the Boston area before we set Lowell as the site. Most of this animosity predates my tenure at the AHA, so I don't know all the specifics. However, if we are going to effectively change and improve the AHA, we need to hear what's good AND bad with our programs. I know that there is a lot of homebrewing knowledge and experience in the ranks of the Boston Wort Processors and I am open to all constructive criticism. Let me also add that to tag the Northeast as "anti-AHA" is ludicrous. Of all the first-round sites, the Lowell site was the largest with 583 entries. To suggest that we avoid that area is ridiculous. Having only been involved with the NHC since April 20th of this year, here is what I have learned in such a short time: - The AHA staff needs to schedule the National Homebrew Competition better. - The AHA staff needs to make sure we have all the Site Directors in place way ahead of time. - The AHA staff needs to make sure we have all the Site Directors in place way ahead of time. (This sentence was repeated intentionally.) Here is what I already knew: - The success of most of the AHA/AOB events and programs depend on volunteer efforts of the homebrewing community. We need to improve how their help is rewarded. In closing, let me thank Jim Barlow, Terry Bradigan, David Gannon, Seth Goodman, Donna Gouvua, Will Fields, Peter Girouard, Claus Holten, Chip Jarry, John Leak, John McCafferty, Bill Medinger, John Naegele, Shekhar Nimkar, Arnold Peterson, Stephen Rose, Les Stoddard, Paul Zocco and Joe Zadrozny. All of you were amazing! Brian Rezac Administrator American Homebrewers Association 736 Pearl Street, Boulder, CO 80302 brian at aob.org http://beertown.org Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 21:18:04 +0000 From: irajay at ix.netcom.com Subject: Re:Attitudes As always, I find the opinions of Paul Niebergal to be refreshing in what is usually a sea of pedantry on HBD. I know that having said that probably opens me to the usual tongue clicking that I usually get when I try to make a point here but what the hell. I've never met Paul but I bet he does have the impeccable taste he boasts. And that he seems to be able to see through the humbug which makes up so much of this list is - I'll say it again - refreshing. Now let me stress that I don't think everything everyone says is humbug. I, too, have learned a great deal from people who are selfless in their advice. But as Paul, I have some trouble with the self appointed mavens and wish that some people could lighten up. I attended a homebrew weekend in Woodland a few months ago and was impressed and also shocked at the incredible sophistication some people had brought to the (I thought) simple skill of homebrewing. But I also found something refreshing there as well. One of the instructors talked about HBD. He said it was comprised of a group of people who knew more about a subject than they should. Now you can look at that anyway you want. Like I have said, I have learned a lot from HBD and I have also seen a lot of strange behavior. Ira Plotinsky Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 09:12:41 +0100 From: Darren Scourfield <dscourfi at ford.com> Subject: RE: Fermentation chiller idea George said; >I built a cold box that I keep at ~37F (2.8C). My idea is to keep a >reservoir of cold water in the box, with a copper coil running through >it. This coil will be hooked up to another coil outside of the cold >box. This second coil will be immersed in water in an insulated >container of some sort (this will be called the "fermentation >reservoir"). The fermenters will sit in the water with the second >coil. A pump will circulate the liquid between the two coils. Why not delete the coil in the "fermentation reservoir" and just circulate the water in the "fermentation reservoir". This would eliminate one heat exchange operation. - -- Darren Scourfield Billericay England Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 12:19:28 +0200 From: Tom Alaerts <TomA at BUT.BE> Subject: Re: Blueberry vs. Raspberry Dear HBD people, Thanks for all the info you sent me. I decided to use 3kg (6.6 lbs) of raspberries for my fruit wheat beer. It is now fermenting VERY enthusiastically. There's enough headroom in the fermenter, so I don't expect a volcano. However: one question remains: I received a mail by a real brewer who claimed that he resulting beer would be way too sour. He referred me to http://hbd.org/brewery/library/SugAcid.html <http://hbd.org/brewery/library/SugAcid.html> . Some other info: I already steeped some 150-200gr of crystal malt while making the wort, because this would enhance the sweetness, since I expected that the resulting brew would be somewhat sour, but not that it would be extremely sour. I admit, I am getting a bit nervous about it (it is also my most expensive batch till now). Can anyone give me advice? Perhaps I can add something while priming? Cheers, Tom Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 12:29:14 +0200 From: Tom Alaerts <TomA at BUT.BE> Subject: Re: clone recipes A while back I posted a question about the puzzling differences between "clone" recipes. I got a few interesting answers. Now, I accidentally deleted a mail (together with some spam-junk) from someone who got real recipes from Pete's and Sierra Nevada. Could this person email me back? Thanks, Tom Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 06:07:14 -0500 From: "Keith & JoAnn Zimmerman" <keithzim at computron.net> Subject: Brewing On The Open Sea Here is one I doubt anyone has seen on the HBD before. A friend of mine plans on living on a yacht once he retires. He questioned me about the possibility of brewing on his boat. I'm not sure this is possible because of the pitching of the boat in rough water. I'm wondering if something could be easily built to keep his fermenter steady. I told him that I would check around and see if I could by some strange chance find someone who may have developed a way to accomplish this feat. Keith Zimmerman, Lake Jackson, Tx Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 07:06:12 -0400 From: "S. Wesley" <wesley at MAINE.MAINE.EDU> Subject: Strange Mash Tuns : ) Hi Folks, Do you ever find yourself wandering around your local home improvement superstore muttering "hmmmm I bet I could use that in the brewery"? I'm getting ready to enlarge my system over the summer from .5+ barrel to 1.0 + so my eyes (and mind) are always wandering in this vein. I've been using a 75 qt manifold based cooler which works well enough but this will obviously not hold the grain bill for a 1 barrel batch. I have considered using two mash tuns in tandem, but this seems like it will be a bit of a pest to operate. A large, inexpensive food grade mash tun could be made out of a (don't laugh) 1'x2'x4' enamel coated steel bath tub which costs $85. Add your own lid insulation and manifold and you've got a mash tun. The best part is that it comes with a built in drain which is already set up for plumbing fittings. Next we have the commodious porcelain mash tun with built in hot liquor tank. Just jiggle the little handle and you're sparging.:) Bye, Simon Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 06:20:48 -0600 From: Ken Schwartz <kenbob at elp.rr.com> Subject: Fermentation Chiller Idea I'll take this opportunity to announce a change in my email address & web page. I haven't completely moved the web page yet and I'll continue to monitor my AOL address probably through summer, but please contact me through the new address (kenbob at elp.rr.com , http://home.elp.rr.com/brewbeer) in the future. George De Piro asks about using water for a Fermentation Chiller: > I built a cold box that I keep at ~37F (2.8C). My idea is to keep a > reservoir of cold water in the box, with a copper coil running through > it. This coil will be hooked up to another coil outside of the cold > box. This second coil will be immersed in water in an insulated > container of some sort (this will be called the "fermentation > reservoir"). The fermenters will sit in the water with the second > coil. A pump will circulate the liquid between the two coils. The advantage that ice has is that it takes a lot more BTUs to melt it from 32F ice to 32F water, than is required to change the temperature of ice or water. You can figure the BTUs required by knowing that it takes 0.5 BTU to change 1 pound of ice 1 degree F, 1 BTU to change 1 pound of water 1 degree F, but 144 BTU to melt one pound of 32F ice into 32F water. Figuring your ice comes out of the freezer at 0F, and will be replaced when it melts and rises to 65F: 0 to 32F ice = 0.5 x (32 - 0) = 16 BTU/lb 32F ice to 32F water = 144 BTU/lb 32F water to 65F water = 1 x (65 - 32) = 33 BTU/lb Since there are 8.3 lb in a gallon of water, these figures translate to 133 BTU for the ice, 1200 for melting the ice, and 274 BTU for warming the melted ice, for a total of 1607 BTU, 75% of which come from melting the ice. My Chiller leaks maybe 30 BTU/hr through the insulation & gaps so this represents something like 54 hours of service per ice change. ***** Ken Schwartz EL Paso, TX kenbob at elp.rr.com http://home.elp.rr.com/brewbeer Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 14:39:08 +0000 From: "Dr. Pivo" <irv at wireworks.se> Subject: Jack's PU, my PU, and just plain P.U. Jack Schmidling wrote: > I suspect Dr Pivo will enjoy my new web page wherein I describe in > abject humility, the World's Greatest Brewery. I looked there, but found nothing under any "World's Greatest Brewery" titleage. Maychance 'tis the material under "applications"? If so, plenty of interesting stuff there. Some of it I would need some greater clarification of, and some I might even tend to contest, but surely don't need to do that here. If you don't mind being pestered with some questions, wave a flag . further... > In particular, the > fact that experts can't tell difference between my PU clone and the > real thing. That I find even more intrigueing. Not a mean trick to pull off, especially considering the numbers of breweries who have borrowed the name through time, without getting anywhere near the product. I think I would be more interested in investigating by nose and mouth rather than description, but likewise have a ton of questions, if you don't mind. and even further..... > This is only reinforced by the fact that REAL connoiseurs > prefer mine. If these people are comparing with the exported Urquell, I don't find this so difficult to believe. I've made the point earlier in referring to English Ales and oxidation/transport damage, that I think the "bigger they are, the harder they fall". The whimpy beers just seem to remain unperturbed. I don't much care for the exported Urquell myself, and I hate to sound snobbish on this, but if you haven't tasted Urquell near the source (the "Urquell"), you haven't tasted Urquell. I might just add, that I am guessing by your comments, that when I was referring to the demise of a Bohemian brewery, that you and others might think I was referring to Plzen..... I wasn't. There was over 130 breweries in Czechoslovakia then, some of them churning out AMAZING stuff. Urquell also got it's own personal "waxing" and sung their own interpretation of the "Bohemian "Rape Me"" (1990's version of the "Bohemian Rhapsody"), in 1992. While the original stuff will likely never be available to the public again, since the brewery was still state owned, rennovation was not as well "market adapted". They did one thing that I have great respect for.... They have retained a semblance of the old brewery as a "taste reference". While even if you drink at the beer hall at the brewery itself, you won't be getting anywhere near the "real stuff" (they serve the same surrogate that goes in the bottles), at least it still exists (As opposed to many, which shall remain but a soft spot in the hearts, minds, and livers of those who look fondly back to when one could fall through the looking glass, into the unperturbed cradle of brewing (bring up violin volume to pianissimo, now)) Dr. Pivo Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 09:06:49 -0400 (EDT) From: "David M. Campbell" <campbell at dickinson.edu> Subject: Sour notes in beer As a first time brewer, I am excited to have discovered the network of beer drinkers and brewers out there who like myself, enjoy a good home crafted beer. I brewed a light, summer ale about a month ago, and it has been conditioning in the bottle now (chilled) for about 3 weeks. When I recently poured a sample, I noticed a slightly sour aftertaste. I wonder if anyone could help me identify what that might be. I hope that it is not due to any sanitation procedures, because I was extremely careful about this process being that it was my first time brewing. I also used about 2 ounces of apricot extract, just enough for a faint smell, but hardly any flavor at all. Could this account for the slightly sour aftertaste I am picking up on? Any advice anyone has would be welcomed! Thanks, Dave Campbell Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 09:36:02 -0400 From: fridge at Imbecile.kzoo.edu Subject: Dehumidifier Greetings folks, Peter Calinski asked for help in using a dehumidifier as a cooling source for his fridge. Dehumidifiers are "high temperature" refrigeration units, much like a window air conditioner. The evaporator will only cool to 35 degF or so, which is great for a dehumidifier or perhaps a fermentation chiller, but lower temperatures for lagering may be difficult to achieve. Many dehumidifier evaporators are simply loops of a very soft aluminum tubing held vertically by a few supports. If yours is made this way you may be able to remove the supports and gently fold the evaporator outward until extends horizontally from the dehumidifier. Do this very carefully and get it right the first time - the tubing will work harden very quickly and get brittle if you try to rebend it. The dehumidifier may now be attached to the side of a fermentation chamber or other cold box so that the evaporator extends through the chamber wall. Mount the vaporator high in the chamber to take advantage of natural convective currents which will help even the temperature throughout the chamber. I have not heard from anybody who has tried this. Since a dehumidifier has a relatively large compressor, the chiller will tend to be an energy "hog". If I were to build something for my own use, I would look for more efficient cooling source. Please let us know how the project turns out. Hope this helps! Forrest Duddles - FridgeGuy in Kalamazoo fridge at Imbecile.kzoo.edu Return to table of contents
Date: 17 Jun 1998 09:40:12 -0400 From: EFOUCH at steelcase.com Subject: Stirring Primer Randy Pressley (hey, is Lisa Marie busy tonight? Why won't she return my calls?) asks about stirring the priming sugar into your bottling bucket. I used to just rack into the bottling bucket on the priming sugar too. It worked great. Until in an epiphanous fit, I tied a bag filter on the end of the racking tube to keep some hop/trub particles out of the beer. It kept the particles out all right. It also kept the racked beer from swirling sufficiently to effect mixing. A smarter (or soberer) person would've caught this. I did not. Subsequently, the first two bottles got 90% the priming sugar, and promptly exploded. Now, I routinely stir the contents of the bottling bucket with the racking cane. I don't think this should cause many problems (certainly less than making bottle bombs) since the siphoned beer will release CO2, and push out the O2. Eric Fouch (I like working with wood) Bent Dick YoctoBrewery Kentwood MI Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 09:53:18 -0400 From: Bill Giffin <billg at ctel.net> Subject: Mashing equipment Top of the morning to yea all, Homebrewers have come up with an array of vessels to use for mashing and lautering. The Igloo coolers both chest and drink style have been pressed into service as combination mash tun/lauter tun as well as any number of RIMS systems. All of these methods have merit and work fairly well and each has it champion. If you use one of these combination methods and are happy with the way it works for you, great keep on using that method. In my opinion I find mashing with a simple mash tun, then transferring the mash to the lauter tun allows me to use any method of mashing commonly being used. I use a glass on steel 5-gallon pot as mash tun for most of the beers I brew. I find the larger diameter of the 5-gallon pot easier to mix the mash in then the taller and smaller diameter of the Igloo. The healable pot allow the mash tun to be directly fired which eliminates having to dilute the mash in order to maintain its temperature or raise the temperature. Many homebrewers have gone to the Igloo to maintain the temperature of the mash as the Igloo is insulated. Maintaining the temperature of the mash in the steel pot can be done in a number of ways. A very easy way is to pop the tun into an oven heated at the temperature of the rest you want to maintain. Another easy method to maintain the temperature of the tun is to make a box from 2" foam board, then covering the tun. This will maintain the temperature in the tun for about 90-min. Transferring the mash to the lauter tun only takes a couple of minutes and allows the filter bed to set up better the in the single tun method. Your Igloo isn't a lost venture. Use it as the lauter tun. Bill Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 09:15:03 -0500 (CDT) From: Samuel Mize <smize at ns1.imagin.net> Subject: Sour grape flavors "Sour grape flavors - If you're getting a lot of sour grapes in your organization, don't blame the component groups. Face up to the fact that your procedures are not clean enough. Disorganization, often enhanced by warm holiday weekends, and sluggish response to complaints is to blame for sour grape beer. " Isn't that advice just wonderful? Best, Sam Mize - -- Samuel Mize -- smize at imagin.net (home email) -- Team Ada Fight Spam - see http://www.cauce.org/ Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 10:33:06 +0000 From: "Jim Busch" <jim at victorybeer.com> Subject: Re: Fermenter temp control George asks about using a cooling resevoir to chill his fermenter. Sounds like a good idea to me. Let me share some data points with you. I ferment my pilots in a unitank that can easily ferment 1 BBL of wort. I use a chill loop inside the manway to provide a heat exchange surface. When I first setup this system I used a 15 gallon stock pot to hold chilled water inside a very cold fridge. The fridge was kept at 31F. A pump is used to circulate this chilling water through the manway loop and back into the holding tank. I routinely fermented and held 62F in the unitank for ales with this setup and post fermentation I could drop the temp to around 56F before the fridge locked up with frost. Worked for ales but defeated some of the main features of a unitank, being able to crash cool and drop proteins and yeast and carbonate to 2.5 Vols while holding at 32-40F. One obvious drawback with this system was the very poor heat transfer beteween the cold air of the fridge and the coolent. (BTW, remember that the main load issue is during high krausen when it takes more BTUs to hold a higher temp than when no exothermic activity is taking place post ferment at a lower temp.) I finally invested in a glycol chiller to resolve this. I settled on a nice small unit sold by Rapids called Panacea long draw chiller. It holds an 11 gal resevoir of glycol (I use a 50/50 water/glycol mix with the Sierra brand glycol so if my precious Lab Dunkles gets in, he hopefully wont die on the spot). The chiller encorporates two copper coils in the glycol resevoir for heat transfer. When I set this glycol at 28F, I could keep a fermenter of 1 BBL at 50F. When I dropped it to 22F I could keep the fermenter at 43F. This has worked great for ales like Altbier so far. One of my current limitations is that the chill loop inside the fermenter is not completely immersed in wort/beer when I only ferment 1 BBL batches. I think this will work better/more efficient when I brew slightly larger batches to keep the entire chill loop immersed. BTW, even with an efficient heat exchange as in this chiller, the compresser does run often as it is chilling 11 gals to transfer a load into 31 gals. Unitanks are fantastic for all the reasons cited in yesterdays digest but are of course quite pricy. Mine cost 2K before I put triclovers and digital temp controls on. Add another 1K for the chiller and these things do add up. But, I now have the ability to confidently perform temperature controlled ferments with gradual temp reductions which mimic the same process done in professional breweries. I loved my open fermenter too but it did have its limitations. Prost! Jim Busch Colesville, Md Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 17 Jun 98 10:32:16 est From: paa3983 at dscp.dla.mil (Mike Spinelli) Subject: Big 'ol food warmer (mash tun) HBDers, Cory in 2741 acquired a monster Gott-like square food warmer and wants to use it to make a ba-zillion gallons of beer. My kinda guy : ). If I had it , I'd put a drain near the bottom of one of the sides. When I was mashing in a 10 gallon Gott, I learned thru the HBD that by simply unscewing the OEM spigot, a standard Fass-Frisch mini-keg red rubber bung fits in the spigot's place perfeclty. The hole in the bung acccepts 1/2" OD refrigerant copper pipe perfeclty w/o leaks. The Fass-Frisch might work depending on the wall thickness of the warmer. At the very least, you could simply put a bulkhead fitting like those offered in U.S. Plastics' catalog. Then inside the cooler attach an Easymasher or make up a slotted copper manifold. If you intend to fly-sparge with this thing, that is, drain out the wort while at the same time adding sparge water at the top of the grain bed, you could just lay the sparge water tubing right on top of the grain bed in a snake-like pattern. Just make sure yyou've got a inch ot two of water above the bed. With this thing you could make 10 gallons of Barley Wine. That alone makes it worh it. Mike Spinelli Mikey's Monster Brew Cherry Hill NJ Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 10:38:08 -0400 From: Hutch <kahlua at intrepid.net> Subject: Re: stuck fermentation regarding the response in HBD #2737, re: stuck fermentation. I would ? the value of not aerating the stuck wort/young beer. I may be wrong with this so please comment if you have any information that would be helpful. What's the difference in aerating now as opposed to the aeration during the initial pitching (maybe 4 or 5 days)? The new yeast, if healthy should absorb all the O2 during its respiration phase. Basically your just working with a wort that's at a gravity of 1.029 or whatever. In general, I was under the impression that it takes some energy (on the part of the brewer) to properly aerate the wort in the first place. Also, I'm not sure that someone could adequately aerate the yeast in the reduced volume of a starter. If that where the case than wouldn't we all just aerate the starter and not aerate the wort with all our beers? At worst you may expose the already fermented portion of your beer to O2, but you still have almost a half of your beer that has not fermented yet! If re-pitching means that your trying to recover from a problem that you already have, than what do you have to loose? Perhaps there will be some reduction in the life span of your beer (oh well). I guess you will just have to drink it up a little faster, and try to get it right with your next batch. What do breweries do when they pitch another type of yeast for big beers, do they aerate at all? Isn't that basically the same thing we have with a stuck fermentation. If we don't aerate the beer than how does the new yeast begin its life cycle, with no oxygen or not enough? How can that be healthy for the yeast? Hutch <> Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 09:46:36 -0400 From: "Peter J. Calinski" <PCalinski at iname.com> Subject: re: re: Alternate Bottle Filling Technique - Vacuum >>Here's a alternative solution: Get a bottling bucket that has a spigot >>at the bottom. No siphon hassles here. >Use a drilled stopper and some tubing. Jam the stopper into the spigot >(on the inside of the bucket). Cut the tubing so that is just long enough >to reach the opposite side of the bucket. >When you bottle, make sure the bucket is above the bottles. For the most >part, the beer in the bucket will drain into the bottles, but and this is >the neat part, when the level of the beer drops below the level of the >spigot, you will be siphoning the last few bottles of beer. > >Works for me, and there is rarely ever more that 1/2 cup or less of beer >left in the bucket. I assume you still need something on the "bottle end" to stop the flow. Something such as a Phil's Philler. That is what causes my problem. The left over hops from dry hopping in the bucket clog the Philler or any other device that "necks down" the flow. With the vacuum method, I just use a straight tube - no neck down. The flow stops when I lift the stopper from the bottle rim and break the vacuum. >From the replies I have received, everything seems to indicate that a better solution is to get rid of the hops before I fill. I just haven't found a good way to do that without leaving a lot of beer behind or disturbing the sediment on the bottom of the fermenter. I guess I need to work this angle harder. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 17 Jun 98 07:55 PDT From: caburns at egusd.k12.ca.us (Charley Burns) Subject: Rye Pale Ale Recipe I got a few requests for the recipe. Here it is: Deer Valley Rye (5 US Gallons) OG 1.055 FG 1.016 Est IBU's 35 Est Color 1012L Malts/Sugars: 0.50 lb. Crystal 100L 1.00 lb. Rye (malted) 0.50 lb. Flaked Rye 2.25 lb. DWC Munich Light 7.25 lb. HB Pale Ale 0.50 lb. Malted Wheat Hops: 0.50 oz. Chinook 12.5% 60 min 0.75 oz. N. Brewer 8.1% 30 min 0.50 oz. Kent-Goldings 4.9% 10 min 1.00 oz. Cascade 4.8% Dry Hopped 10 days 1 Teaspoon Irish Moss at 15 minutes Mash Temperature: 155F Wyeast 1056 - 9 days at 60-63F 1 Teaspoon gelatin finings when transferred to secondary Notes: Next time do a glucan rest for 15 minutes at somewhere between 95F and 105F based on recommendations of several brewers from HBD. Need to do more research on exact temp for Rye due to variations in recommendations. Jim Busch got a comment on that? Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 10:06:37 -0500 From: rlabor at lsumc.edu (LaBorde, Ronald) Subject: RE: Fermentation chiller idea George asks about building a fermentation chiller. I once built one that used a submersible aquarium pump in the cooling water which circulated the water through the cooling coil. It worked well and only needed one coil. Another idea, I did not try was to use my regular brewhouse fridge (set at lager temps) to hold a small container of coolant and the pump, that way I would not need to keep feeding it ice. The only catch here, is you will need passage for the two hoses and the power cord (all may be very small diameter). If you can get some sort of radiator type of heat exchanger, like an automobile AC condenser core, then you could maybe circulate liquid coolant through it with a small muffin fan to blow through it. This could be used in one or both locations, you would not need to submerse the fermenter in water, but instead could use a large insulated box. And yes, you can use a thermostat to control the pump, it works very well. Ron Ronald La Borde - Metairie, Louisiana - rlabor at lsumc.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 17 Jun 98 11:27:55 est From: paa3983 at dscp.dla.mil (Mike Spinelli) Subject: Why cani sugar in Blegian brews? HBDers, If candi sugar ferments completely as does dextrose, sucrose, etc, then what's the purpose of it? To up the gravity? Or to impart a winey taste to the brew? Is this one of those things that's just "tradition" and that's why we still do it today? I mean if the candi sugar imparts a flavor unobtainable with malt tha n I could see using it, but if it's just to bump up the gravity then why not just use more malt? Mike Spinelli Cherry Hill NJ Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 11:39:32 -0400 From: Wade Hutchison <whutchis at bucknell.edu> Subject: cleaning flux off of copper pipe Cleaning with solvents will probably not be needed. Plumbers use the paste flux on potable water lines all the time, and don't flush with acetone. If you have PVC ball valves in the system, acetone will soften and ruin them. If you have stainless/brass ball valves, the plastic seating material should be teflon, and would be unaffected by the solvent. I would reccoment flushing with very hot water. Then run some cool water through the pipes and taste it. If you feel you have to use a solvent, try rubbing alcohol (isopropanol). It's a very mild solvent that's cheap, and can be rinsed away with water easily. If you can get to the insides of the joints, get a small bottle brush, (or test tube brush), and swab them out with either TSP solution, B-Brite or PBW. That'll do the trick. Stay away from gasoline or acetone, since you will then have to clean the pipes again to get the solvent out. Hope this helps, -----wade hutchison >Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 13:36:18 -0400 >From: "Ludwig's" <dludwig at us.hsanet.net> >Subject: Re: Cleaning your nightmare > <snip bulk of message from John Palmer> >> >> The liquid fluxes can be washed off with detergents and water. >> >> For final cleaning, I recommend white distilled vinegar. >> >> John Palmer > >John, >I used the paste. I'm concerned about the effects of gasoline or acetone >on the plastic (?) seals in the ball valves. They are soldered in place. >Do you think a diluted acetone solution would work ok. Say half acetone >and half h2O and a 5 minute soak followed by a quick rinse. Also, I'm >curious what the significance is of using high octane gasoline. How >about TSP? Acetone scares me a little (though I use it occasionly for >thining epoxy) and gasoline, well, wouldn't have been my first choice >though I used to use gasoline as a solvent religiously back in my dirt >bike days. ;) >Thanks, >Dave L. > > Return to table of contents
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