HOMEBREW Digest #2752 Sun 28 June 1998

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		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com

  Re: EstroHops (Paul Ward)
  question of respiration (Domenick Venezia)
  RE: yeast ranching questions (Hutch)
  Welcome new posters 2749 (Samuel Mize)
  Nettles in beer (Hutch)
  Old Wyeast Viability ("Gregory A. Lorton")
  Respiration---again (Christopher W Kafer)
  BACKLOG - don't quote more than you have to! (Al Korzonas)
  Style Series books, teflon ("Bryan L. Gros")
  Videos/CDs ("Michael O. Hanson")
  Saint Feuillen (Jorge Blasig - IQ)
  Hops and Kraut (Jesse Krusemark)
  Attitudes ("Kevin R. Martin")
  re: Summer Yeasts ("Chris Carolan")
  Is this the HBD or what? (Charles Hudak)
  re: Estrohops (Jesse and Meegan Benbow)
  Heineken (Brew Rat)
  RE:Citrus Notes/Anchor Steam Clone/Eisbock in VA/Beer Bullets ("Marc Battreall")
  Clear bottles, skunky, Corona (Ari J{rm{l{)
  Labelling laws ("Brad McMahon")
  Flights of Homebrew ("Buchanan, Robert")
  Re: re: skunk smell ("Mark Nelson")
  Cherries, Secondary fermentation ("David Johnson")
  Beer Color, Equipment (BrwyFoam)
  Skunk-proof beer / Roller mill spacing (George_De_Piro)
  Burro Urine (Kyle Druey)
  Quit Bitchin' / RIMS...the final froniter (Mike Spinelli)
  re: skunk smell (Tom Alaerts)
  Kubessa process question (George_De_Piro)
  Stout history; corriander; hop pests; hops FAQ (Doug Moyer)
  heating element temp ("Ludwig's")

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 11:34:24 -0400 (EDT) From: Paul Ward <paulw at doc.state.vt.us> Subject: Re: EstroHops In HBD 2749 Alan Meeker offered: > Greetings. This week's Science News contains an article on research into > herbal-based remedies for menopause-related hot flashes. Specifically, > they were looking at the ability of various naturally-derived substances > to bind the receptor for the hormone estrogen, the decline of which is > thought to underlie the symptoms associated with menopause. Here's an > interesting excerpt: "Hops also showed estrogenlike binding, and so might > mimic the hormone, a finding that fits with folklore about hops workers, > she added. Men who worked in the hop fields were said to suffer from a > lackluster libido, whereas female field hands were said to be sexy." To which I reply (sorry about the BW): If you find your sex drive flagging, And you no longer feel like bragging, And you just can't stand the nagging, Then have another beer! If you're tired of all the ragging, About your parts a-sagging, And you know that tongues are wagging, You deserve another beer! So if you feel like gagging, Over all those needs now lagging, And your lower lip is dragging, Could it be the beer? GAWD, I HOPE NOT! Paul in Vermont paulw at doc.state.vt.us - -- According to government height/weight charts, I'm seven and a half feet tall. Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 09:00:34 -0700 (PDT) From: Domenick Venezia <demonick at zgi.com> Subject: question of respiration In HBD 2749 "Nathaniel P. Lansing" <delbrew at compuserve.com> quotes two different dictionary definitions of "respiration" then says: >So by definition 1 the utilization of oxygen for the biosynthesis of >sterols is respiration. By definition 2 the anaerobic fermentation of >glucose is still respiration. > >Authorities should try to be more specific in their language to avoid >making it even more difficult to come to the truth of the matter. To >simply state "Yeast do not respire in wort" is in error. I hesitated to respond to this obvious troll, but thought that it might be taken seriously and thereby cause confusion. Dictionary definitions, even medical dictionaries, are not technical volumes and list common, simple definitions. Respiration, as has been discussed in the context of the HDB, refers specifically to "cellular respiration", not gross inspiration or expiration, or cutaneous respiration like some salamanders, or breathing through the eyeballs like some Zen masters. Quite specifically it refers to the aerobic oxidation of pyruvic acid into carbon dioxide and acetyl-CoA thence through the Krebs cycle yielding cellular energy in the form of ATP and more CO2. The Krebs cycle is also known as the tricarboxylic acid cycle (TCA) also known as the citric acid cycle. Since it is a cycle there is no endpoint, but the last step in the cycle before starting again is formation of citric acid - hence one of the names. Cellular fermentation and cellular respiration both share the process called glycolysis in which glucose is metabolized to pyruvic acid without the use of molecular oxygen. Fermentation processes the pyruvic acid into CO2 and ethanol, and respiration processes the pyruvic acid into CO2 and ATP. The point of the "yeast do not respire" post was that in a solution of greater than ~0.4% (any wort) yeast utilize glucose through fermentation and NOT respiration even in the presence of molecular oxygen (the Crabtree effect). They only use the oxygen for the biosynthesis of sterols to stabilize their cell membrames. Yes, they must absorb it to use it, but absorbtion is NOT cellular respiration. As previously posted in the deep, dark past, I suspect that the evolutionary reason for the Crabtree effect is that given a rich source of food, that is, high concentrations of glucose, it is in the yeast's best interest to metabolize it quickly yet inefficiently into alcohol to out compete other organisms for the food supply. In the presence of molecular oxygen yeast will then metabolize the ethanol through respiration to yield more cellular energy. Essentially, it is a great strategy to convert a rich source of food into what is a poison for your competitors, then later and at your leisure use the poison as food. This is why aerating late in the fermentation is a bad idea. The reprocessing of ethanol results in all sorts of stuff that shouldn't be in your beer because it tastes horrid. Domenick Venezia demonick at zgi dot com Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 13:04:18 -0400 From: Hutch <kahlua at intrepid.net> Subject: RE: yeast ranching questions >Subject: Yeast Ranching Questions >1) Usually some condensation forms on the inside of a culture tube >after it has been sterilized, filled with sterile media, cooled, capped, >then placed into the fridge to solidify (this is all before innoculating >with yeast). Does this pose any problems? As for your questions, here is a bit of information from several sources, BT March/April 1997, and an ATCC workshop on yeast culturing. You can draw your own conclusions. To sterilize your work area use a 10% solution of clorox (in a spray bottle), and then a 70% alcohol solution to wipe everything down. The procedures for preparing an agar slant should include: Boil the agar/wort mixture until the agar has dissolved, then fill (1/3) the vials. Pressure cook them (with the caps on loosely) for 20 min at 15 psi to sterilize the vials and their contents. When the pressure cooker has cooled but is still warm to the touch remove the the vials, and carefully prop them at an angle until they solidify. Then go ahead and inoculate your slants. After letting the slants incubate for a few days at room temperature 23-25c (avoid placing the cultures in direct sunlight), check the culture. If it looks ok tighten the cap and wrap in saran wrap, and then store in the refrigerator (4 degrees C) for up to 3-4 months. >2) After innoculating the slant, most of my yeast form little white pin >dots. These dots expand until they grow into each other, but the yeast >never form a consistent white layer. Is my yeast ruined? Doesn't sound like it. The yeast doesn't need to cover the entire area in the slant. What you should be checking for is any discoloration or a fuzzy look. The culture should have a uniform smooth creamy white appearance. Anything else should be discarded. >3) I just recultured some 6 month old slants. When I opened the >culture tube the yeast smelled terrible (hey Fouch, know anything about >bad yeasty type smells?). I decided to use this to innoculate anyway. >Is my yeast ruined? Anytime you get something that doesn't seem right, culture up some and check for the things listed above. That should give you your answer. In a side note, for those of you wanting to store your cultures at room temp. for up to 2 years. Use the procedures for storing your cultures in sterile distilled water, BT March/April 1997. Once you have a good slant transfer a little yeast to a solution of distilled water using the methods above. Cap and shake the vial, the yeast should settle out as a thin white film on the bottom, and last for as long as 2-3 years. Also, you can check the back issues of BT May/June 1995, for an article on how to build a laminar flow hood for as little as $100 Good luck Hutch <> Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 12:03:00 -0500 (CDT) From: Samuel Mize <smize at ns1.imagin.net> Subject: Welcome new posters 2749 Welcome to the new (in '98 anyway) posters in HBD 2749: William E. Steimle, Rob Vermeulen, Rod Schaffter, Nathaniel P. Lansing and David Rinker! Sam Mize Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 13:29:08 -0400 From: Hutch <kahlua at intrepid.net> Subject: Nettles in beer I am looking for some beer recipes that include Nettles (Utrica dioica, U.chamaedryoides, or U. urens). Does anyone have any old recipe books that might include this ingredient? Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 10:50:31 -0700 From: "Gregory A. Lorton" <glorton at cts.com> Subject: Old Wyeast Viability A week or two ago, there was a thread about whether old Wyeast packs were any good. Here's another data point. Brewing a lambic, I pitched an American ale yeast for primary, and am getting ready to pitch Wyeast's Belgian Lambic Blend (#3278) into secondary with a bunch of raspberries and other goodies. The lambic blend was dated July 16, 1997 when I bought it on June 18, last week... 11 months old. I brewed on Sunday, June 21, and figured that I had better smack the lambic blend that evening so that it's ready in seven days when I rack into secondary. Well, as of this morning (Thursday, June 25), the pack is fully puffed up and ready to go. (If the primary would only go faster!!!) Of course, this is the lambic blend, so who knows which of the thousand species of bugs in there are really active. But then again it's a lambic. This more or less confirms a rule of thumb that I've experienced: divide the age of the yeast in months by two or three to figure how many days in advance to smack the pack, and then add a day for the starter. These older yeasts always seem to respond faster than Wyeast's recommendation of one day for each month of age. Greg Lorton Brewing in Carlsbad, CA (Hiding from Charles Hudak at the QUAFF homebrew club meetings. See ya Sunday, CH!) Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 12:58:26 -0500 From: Christopher W Kafer <ckafer at iastate.edu> Subject: Respiration---again First a suggestion, if you want to talk about biochemical definitions it might be a good idea to invest in a biochemistry text and not refer to Webster. Respiration, when used correctly, does not mean what you have quoted. Respiration is an ATP generating process in which an inorganic compound (such as O2) serves as the ultimate electron acceptor. The electron donor can be either an organic or inorganic compound. Fermentation is an ATP generating process in which organic compounds act as both donors and acceptors of electrons. Fermentation can occur in the absence of O2. (Stryer, Biochemistry 4th ed, 1995) After several discussions with real yeast experts it appears that Al K. may in fact be correct on this Crabtree effect! 8-) Back to lurking. >There has been a growing trend to say that yeast do not respire in >brewer's >wort.Someone must have a unique definition of "respiration." I checked 2 >references for the exactly what is respiration and found the following: >from "New Gould Medical Dictionary" -"The interchange of gases of the >living and the gases of the medium in which they live, through any >channel, >as in cutaneous respiration" > >from "Webster's New Universal Unabridged Dictionary"- "2. biol. a. the >sum >total of the physical and chemical processes in an organism by which >oxygen >and carbohydrates are assimilated into the system and the oxidation >products, carbon dioxide and water are given off." > >So by definition 1 the utilization of oxygen for the biosynthesis of >sterols is respiration. By definition 2 the anaerobic fermentation of >glucose is still respiration. > > Authorities should try to be more specific in their language to avoid >making it even more difficult to come to the truth of the matter. To >simply >state "Yeast do not respire in wort" is in error. > Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 14:38:25 -0500 (CDT) From: Al Korzonas <korz at xnet.com> Subject: BACKLOG - don't quote more than you have to! See the subject... Al. Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 13:14:57 -0700 From: "Bryan L. Gros" <gros at bigfoot.com> Subject: Style Series books, teflon >Steve Jackson <stevejackson at rocketmail.com> wrote: > >In HBD #2745 (June 20, 1998), Al Korzonas wrote: > >[snip] >I just got off the phone with a HB supply shop owner... no doubt >you know about the fire sale Brewers Publications had on the Beer >Style Series books. I just learned from this shop owner that >these incredible prices were not made available to homebrew shops >and now customers are coming in saying: "$11.95!? I just bought >four of these for $3.95 each at a bookstore!" > >Not only does Brewers Publications' decision stink, it exhibits a >complete lack (or worse, disregard) of business sense. ... >This one step virtually guarantees that not only >will Brewers Publications have had trouble selling previous style >series books (at least I'm assuming they did, since they're unloading >them), they will assuredly have trouble selling them in the future. Actually, it makes good business sense. BP is, I think, re-issuing all the style series books in the new formats. (Which stink, IMO). Therefore, they expect all shops to update their stock with the new books and the old books in the new format. And yes, my local shop owner is also very pissed about the deal. The old formats look much classier ***** caburns at egusd.k12.ca.us (Charley Burns) wrote: >Got the 1/2 barrel kegs cut, nipples and couplers welded. Do I use teflon >tape when screwing the stainless ball valve to the stainless nipple or will >it melt when I fire up the kettle? If not teflon tape, is there something >else I should use in that joint? The teflon tape should be fine. At least mine is okay. - Bryan Bryan Gros gros at bigfoot.com Oakland, CA Visit the new Draught Board homebrew website: http://www.valhallabrewing.com/~thor/dboard/index.htm Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 16:45:50 -0700 From: "Michael O. Hanson" <mhanson at winternet.com> Subject: Videos/CDs Does anyone on the Homebrew Digest know where I can get quality inexpensive videos and CDs on homebrewing? Thanks in advance, Mike Hanson Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 19:02:47 -0300 (GMT-0300) From: Jorge Blasig - IQ <gisalb at elmer.fing.edu.uy> Subject: Saint Feuillen Dear friends, I tried Saint Feuillen Stout and would like to prepare someting similar. Could any of you send me a recipe which resembles this nice stout belgian beer. Thanks, Jorge Blasig Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 15:29:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Jesse Krusemark <krusemark at yahoo.com> Subject: Hops and Kraut Hello All, HOPS: I am successfully growing my own hops in central Illinois. I have three plants, each is doing quite well. One, however, and I'm not sure of the variety, put on what seem to be full sized hops a few weeks ago, while the others have only blooms. The hops are papery and very fresh smelling. Are these ready for harvest? KRAUT: I know this isn't beer related, though kraut is often enjoyed with beer, but this is fermentation related. All of the kraut recipes I can find observe no sanitary considerations. They rely on airborne yeasts. Can anyone help me with a recipe that would kill wild yeasts, possibly through blanching? Any yeast recommendations? Reply off the list if you like krusemark at yahoo.com Thanks _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free at yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 19:22:59 -0500 From: "Kevin R. Martin" <kmartin at creston.heartland.net> Subject: Attitudes Hello fellow brewers, I have read many of the posts regarding this thread, and I believe that some people are missing the point that was trying to be made, or at least the one that I would like to see made. I would like to start by saying that I read HBD regularly and I have learned much. I understand how much time that it must take for some of the regular posters of great advise and interesting tidbits to actually type and send these E-mails. I am VERY glad that they do this. I would also like to point out that this is a very helpful group. I have posted questions, and each time I have gotten many responses. Most were brewers that were willing to share their experience and ideas to help me out of the situation that I had gotten myself into. I am grateful for every single response that I recieved which the sender intended to offer advise and share experiences. I hope to be able to help others too. However, there are some responders with a serious attitude problem. I actually had one person accuse me of being, " a poor slob in search of a cheap drunk" just because I brew with extracts. If this is the best thing that they have to say to me, I would just as soon have them not respond. I may decide to brew with all grain one day, and I am sure that if I do, I will turn to the HBD for advice, but this type of insulting is immature and we would be better off as a group without these types of responses. Best of brewing to all, Kevin Martin kmartin at creston.heartland.net Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 20:33:28 -0700 From: "Chris Carolan" <spiralc at ix.netcom.com> Subject: re: Summer Yeasts Danny Breidenbach asks, >"What yeast do you people recommend for brewing ales in the summer. I'm looking at ambient temps fairly stable around 70 deg. F, and I'm looking for a fairly clean finishing yeast at such a temp. Suggestions?" My former brewshop in Georgia strongly recommended Yeast Lab A07 "Canadian Ale" for summertime brewing. He swore it fermented clean up to 80 deg F. I since noticed that the only Wyeast strain that uses the word "Canadian" in its description, British II #1335, also has the highest rated temp (to 75 deg F) of any non-Belgian Wyeast strain. I suspect the two may be the same yeast. The Yeast Lab A07 has been described in some places as the Molson strain. Who knows for sure, though. Either yeast would be (and will be) my choice for summer brews. Chris Carolan chris at calendarresearch.com http://www.calendarresearch.com no beer stuff here, just my biz. Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 18:19:10 -0700 From: Charles Hudak <cwhudak at home.com> Subject: Is this the HBD or what? Greetings, God, I hate to have to do this, but I'm going to have to chime in. I'm getting really sick of these public displays of stupidity lately. This is the Homebrewer's Digest. Let me repeat, this is the Homebrewer's Digest. This is not a forum for pining on and on about your right to be the resident homebrew guru or providing your incredible insight on whose posts are the most helpful or to post your thoughts and opinions on other peoples thoughts and opinions ESPECIALLY when they are not beer or brewing related. There are quite a few folks who spend a good deal of their time educating the rest of us and for that we are grateful. Let it be known that, regardless of the dryness of the subject matter at times, they are providing an invaluable resource, especially since it is archived. We may not feel that we need that information now but we may find, that as we mature as brewers we turn to the archives for valuable knowledge. That said....Guys, you know who you are......pat yourselves on the back and be done with it. If you are posting because you are waiting for kudos to come down from the heavens, forget it. Most of us will silently or only occasionally voice out appreciation of you and those who don't WILL NEVER GET IT!! Don't waste time trying to sway their opinions. Focus on the beer. As far as wasting bandwidth goes, Sam, I love ya bud but you are violating your own advice and admonitions. Sam writes: >How about adding, up at the top, a pointer to some web resources for basics? >For instance: > > "Many basic brewing questions are answered at: > http://www.brewery.org/brewery/Library.html" > >This would help neophytes, might reduce newbie-question bandwidth, and >would discourage nobody from posting. Anyone dislike this idea?>If you know people who are fearful of posting, I assume you do everything >you can to encourage them. Please let me know if there is some concrete >action I can take to encourage them. > >Perhaps you could serve as an unofficial ombudsman -- or a helper, if >that's too pompous -- to encourage them to post to the HBD. We DO want >new people to post. He then goes on, in another post to write: >> Is bandwidth a commodity or something? > >Yes. HBD is limited to one 50K email per day. This is an intentional >bandwidth limitation, which works in tandem with the "cancel" function. >The idea is that people will answer questions publicly, for the benefits >I listed above. However, if you see several replies already in the queue, >you can cancel your reply and reduce redundant repetition. Considering Sam's opposition to bandwidth wasting, I'm curious that he's appointed *himself* the HBD ombudsman and has been posting "Welcome new posters....." for the past couple of digests. I find this a very *large* waste of bandwidth. Sure, it gives us that warm fuzzy feeling, but Sam, if you feel so inclined, send these folks private emails encouraging their further contributions to the digest. I think that you'll agree that lately there has been much more beer-unrelated material on the digest than there should be. I'm not interested in getting into a headlock with anyone over this. Rebuttals to this post either publicly or privately will be paged past or discarded. I think that we need to get back to the topic at hand: Beer, brewing and other *related* subjects. Hey, my beer is getting warm....finally. C-- Charles Hudak cwhudak at home.com Living large on the left coast....... Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 21:12:50 -0700 From: Jesse and Meegan Benbow <benbow at jeffnet.org> Subject: re: Estrohops In HBD2749, Alan Meeker wrote: >"Hops also showed estrogenlike binding, and so might >mimic the hormone, a finding that fits with folklore about hops workers, >she added. Men who worked in the hop fields were said to suffer from a >lackluster libido, whereas female field hands were said to be sexy." > >Hmmmmmm OK guys, how many of you hop heads have experienced a loss of your >sex drive? I suppose the logical solution is to include some ground up >Viagra tablets when priming heavilly hopped beers. And Paul Ward wrote: >A word to the wise, gentlemen - if your S.O. ever is feeling amorous >on a Sunday afternoon and invites you to the bedroom *NEVER* utter >the phrase, "hold that mood honey, it's time to start sparging." > >Sigh. Ummmmm, Paul? Maybe you should go a little lighter on the centennial, columbus, and chinook hops in your search for the grapefruit IPA! Jesse Benbow in Medford OR Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 00:53:08 -0400 From: Brew Rat <brewrat at beer.com> Subject: Heineken Hey collective, In my 54 years of brewing I have tried without success to make the perfect Heinie clone...and finally I have discovered the secret. I racked into the secondary, a clear glass carboy in a closet with 1000 watts of flourescent lighting. I let it sit there for 18 months and now it resembles what I wanted. Any suggestions? Ku8 SUX!!! Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 02:19:30 -0400 From: "Marc Battreall" <batman at terranova.net> Subject: RE:Citrus Notes/Anchor Steam Clone/Eisbock in VA/Beer Bullets Paul Ward was asking about replicating citrus notes in an IPA that he likes and Jeff Renner replies: >Let me suggest something radical - ask the brewer. You might get >rebuffed,but you just might get your answer. I was pleasantly surprised >when I got pretty much all I asked for about Oberon (formerly Solsun) wheat >beer at Larry Bell's Kalamazoo Brewing Co. Identify yourself as a >homebrewer and ask intelligent questions. Good advice to follow. I go out skiing every year in Vail Colorado and always visit my new found Brewmaster friend, J.R., at The HubCap. (Funny, I look forward to that more than the skiing sometimes!) After shooting the breeze with him, mostly about the yeast that the brewery uses, not only did he tell me what it was, he gave me a nice 50 ml vial full of fresh slurry. Come to find out it was a strain that is not available to homebrewers (that easily anyway). Wyeast 1187, a.k.a. Ringwood Ale. I have found that what Jeff says is true at most brewpubs and micro's. Remember, most of these guys and gals were more than likely homebrewers first and professionals second. As a matter of fact, I betcha alot them wish they were merely "ordinary homebrewers" again!!! Tom asks about an Anchor Steam clone; I am strictly an all grain brewer now Tom, but I did try an Anchor Steam clone a few years back with extract. I used 8 lbs. of Alexander's Light liquid and got pretty good results (6 US gallons). I have since then done alot of research regarding both Anchor Steam and Anchor Liberty Ale. I use US Pale Ale malt and a pound or so of 40L crystal for color and a hint of sweetness. According to my findings Anchor Steam has Northern Brewer hops exclusively and uses a yeast strain extremely similar to Wyeast #2112, if not that exact strain. That point can be argued back and forth, but if you use #2112, in my experience, you won't go wrong whether or not it is the exact strain Anchor uses. Try fermenting the primary around 55-57F till the SG drops to 30-40% of the OG and rack to a secondary for a few weeks at 45F or cooler if you have the capability. I think it'll turn out pretty darn close to what you are looking for in a California Common. Good Luck! David Rinker makes a comment about Eisbock thread; >Why do I ask? Welt, in my home state (VA) distilled liquor cannot be >sold in any other store than a state-licensed and run ABC store. Since >Eisbock is readily available in supermarkets and other stores, it seems >that VA's ABC board doesn't regard Eisbock as a distilled product. Sorry David but this one cracked me up. I have been in alot of supermarkets and I'll be damned if I have ever seen an Eisbock in any of them! Tell me your kidding?? In Virginia???? We just got a new high falootin' Winn Dixie Marketplace and all it has is that new fangled Sam Shepherd's Iced Wicked Dry Huckleberry Ale!! (Just kidding, I live on a small island and don't get to the mainland much) The stores here in South Florida are just now getting around to stocking a few good micro's. Hope we can get more diversified someday. I have a question of the collective. Since I do live on an island and don't get to the big city much I am kinda outta touch with HDB jargon. I found a file of HBD acronyms but didn't see "beer bullets" on it. Can someone enlighten me as to what a "Beer bullet" is exactly? I have seen this term used alot lately in this forum so I assume it is not a bad word. Regards to all, Marc ====================== Captain Marc Battreall Backcountry Brewhouse Islamorada, FL Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 10:24:03 +0300 (EEST) From: Ari J{rm{l{ <jarmala at pcuf.fi> Subject: Clear bottles, skunky, Corona Tom Alaers asked how is it possible that Corona does not get skunky while it stands long time in a clear bottle. I'm not sure if this is the actual reason, but it may be possible, that they use reduced isomerized hop extracts at the brewery. These new hop extracts are known to be non-skunky even in bright sunlinght. When using these you must not use _any_ other hop products, if you want to avoid the possible skunkyness completely. There are more info in new publications about hops and hop products. Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 17:50:16 +0930 From: "Brad McMahon" <brad at sa.apana.org.au> Subject: Labelling laws Sam Mize wrote: >Until recently, we were forbidden to put the strength on a beer >bottle, also, to prevent competition based on the strength of the >beer. This was recently overturned, based in part (I think) on the >argument that a person can't responsibly control his alcohol intake >if he doesn't know what it is. Beer sold in the USA may now list >its alcohol percent, as long as it's a discreet informational line >and not an advertising claim about how blasted it'll make you. I went through my collection of labels from my last U.S. stay some eight months ago, and none of the microbrewery labels had that information on them. I found it mildly worrying that people don't know what they are getting strength wise. I think its irresponsible for them NOT to put it on. As we all know too well, most people don't know much about beer. I can envision where people who are used to (say) a six-pack of Coors Lite, knock back a six of Sam Adams Double Bock and then jump in the car, none the wiser. OK, so people who drink Coors Lite probably won't like dopplebocks, but you get the drift. Most other countries require producers to list alcoholic content. In Australia we have gone an extra step, where the amount of standard drinks it contains is displayed on the bottle. ie. on a bottle of Coopers Sparkling Ale :" 375ml 5.8%alc/vol, approx. 1.7 standard drinks." Much easier to work out your consumption. I think U.S. producers should start doing this as a matter of civic duty. Brad McMahon Adelaide, Australia (and part time Sea Cliff, NY) Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 08:14:53 -0400 From: "Buchanan, Robert" <RBuchanan at ChristianaCare.org> Subject: Flights of Homebrew Rob D. posts about the Security guys with a taste for Homebrew. I too have taken many bottles of homebrew and commerical beers on board. Granted security is always an issue in our troubled, terrorist- laden world,but seems Rob's family either ran into an over-zealous group or guys who KNEW what was in those bottles. Hope they (the guards) enjoyed that beer !! Steve in Indy responds with some good advice on packing it in your checked luggage, if you've ever watched those luggage guys toss your suitcase on board I'm suprised that my shving cream CAN hasn't burst !! Also one note to pass on, be careful with some higher carbonated beers like Belgians or Weiss beers, pressure drops can cause these beers to blow the top off in your suitcase. I found this out when bringing some Paulaner Hefe back form Germany. Bob Buchanan "Give a man a beer and he wastes an hour, teach a man to brew and he wastes a lifetime" Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 08:49:06 -0400 From: "Mark Nelson" <menelson at mindspring.com> Subject: Re: re: skunk smell Tom A. asks about skunking and why it doesn't happen in Corona. I know that some mass-produced commercial beers are made with a hop extract that is stabilized to prevent becoming lightstruck. This the case with several American clear-glass beers, and may be the case with Corona as well. Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 07:48:13 -0500 From: "David Johnson" <dmjalj at inwave.com> Subject: Cherries, Secondary fermentation Brewers, I was out picking cherries last night from my Montmorency (sour) cherry tree. I have a bumper crop this year. I have enough to make beer (besides enough to make pies and give away). I am looking for suggestions for a beer to use these in. Most of the recipes I have seen have suggested stouts. I am not really a fan of the classic dry stout. Perhaps a foriegn style or imperial cherry stout? I do like New Glarus' Belgian Red. But since I have an idea of what the brewer does to make it, I feel I am unlikely to make that kind of effort. I also want to ask, pits or pitted? I am leaning towards pits. Is 6-7 pounds enough? I plan to pasteurize. A Melomel would also be OK but I thought that it might be a little acidic. I have a porter in the tertiary that was transferred a week or so ago. Gravity had gone from 1.058 to about 1.024. I had let it spend five days on an ounce of steamed oak chips. It appeared to be clearing, so I swirled it to resuspend the yeast and didn't check it until this AM. Vigorous fermentation had started again. I had used 2 yeasts in this batch and knew that one was supposed to be more attenuative than the other. Does this explain this behavior? It smells OK. I have cleaned out the air lock (I didn't expect this vigorous fermentation) and replaced it. I also consider the possibility that this is due to contamination but it smells OK (good in fact). Even if it is a wild yeast, this was to be a 18th century style porter (yes I know oak may not be appropriate) so I was considering adding Brettanomyces anyway. Not really concerned, just curious. Dave Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 09:25:53 EDT From: BrwyFoam at aol.com Subject: Beer Color, Equipment SUBJECT: Beer Color, Equipment I disagree with Al de Lange's assertion that spectrophotometric methods (i.e., absorbance at 430 nm) are intrinsically superior to visual methods (e.g., the one that is presented in Laurie's and my book) because the latter is less "objective". I do agree that a case can be made along these lines for light colored beers. For example, our methods are hopelessly inadequate for distinguishing the color of the two top selling "light beers". The best we could do is say they both are very light and fall in the range 1.5 to 2.0 deg. Lov. A spectrophotometer, on the other hand, would pick up this difference. BTW one is at 1.6 and the other is at 1.8. Where I have a problem with de Lange's assertion is in the color interval from full gold to deep brown, say from 6 to 18 deg. Lov. to cite a specific numerical range. Here it is not at all difficult to come with examples which have similar SRM values (absorbance*10), and yet are discernibly different in color. The point I believe de Lange may be possibly overlooking is that the human visual system absorbs light waves at many different wave lenghts. It is true that those at or near 430 nm are important for "amber" beers, but they are not dominant as they are for lightly colored beers. On the other hand, the visual methodology is by no means perfect as far as color measurements in the 6 to 18 Lov. range are concerned, but to quote Allen Greenspan (who was speaking about the measurement of inflation), "I would rather be approximately correct than totally wrong". Once one goes much beyond 18 deg. Lov., then even visual methods become suspect. I feel this is an excellent research area for a combined chemistry/mathematics approach. I see the SRM as being equivalent to using only one term in a Fourier expansion. It appears that a more fruitful approach is to go about things mathematically with full spectral approximations. The biggest application of this sort of work is undoubtedly in the evaluation of the effect of color malts. As things stand now this is highly problematic both on the commercial as well as homebrew level. But all this is for some other day, and some other forum. ********************************************************** I think it is a serious mistake to think one can improve the quality of one's beers by throwing $ at equipment. As I have said before on this forum, the single most important thing I have done in the last 10 years is to force myself to do the following three simple things on a regular basis. 1. To do actual yeast cell counts. 2. To get reasonably accurate estimates of cell viability. 3. To do this same for bacterial levels in pitching yeast. One of the things that I find most exciting about Louis Bonham's new series for BT is that it will open an on-going forum for these sort of issues. Hopefully, this will help break down the phobia that all of this is beyond the scope of the average budget conscious homebrewer. Cheers, George Fix Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 09:29:31 -0700 From: George_De_Piro at berlex.com Subject: Skunk-proof beer / Roller mill spacing Hi all, Tom asks why some beers can be packaged in clear glass and not be skunked. Thanks to the magic of modern science there exists a product called "tetrahydro-iso-extract." It is isomerized hop extract that is light-proof. This extract will also improve foam stability. It is important to note that to make beer light-proof requires that no "normal" hops be used anywhere in the production process. Even the yeast must be free of "normal" hop iso-alpha acids. This must be what Miller was referring to as the "heart of the hops." --------------------------------- John asks about appropriate gaps for roller mills. I believe the best way to determine the gap for your mill is to run some grain through it, evaluate the crush, and adjust it. Once the crush is to your liking, measure the gap (if you feel the need). Different grains are different sizes, so to optimize the grind you may want to adjust it for each type of grain. This way, you'll get the best crush for the grain you are milling at that moment, rather than relying on somebody else's settings. Have fun! George De Piro (Nyack, NY) Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 18:45:01 -0700 From: Kyle Druey <druey at ibm.net> Subject: Burro Urine Tom asks this of Corona: >So I never understood how those crystal-clear bottles of Corona that >are in a brightly lit store for more than a week don't develop this >bad smell. Does anyone know the reason? Yes, you can't smell it because of the overwhelmingly bad taste! Here in the southern San Joaquin Valley Corona is referred to as burro urine. Kyle Druey Bakersfield, CA Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 26 Jun 98 09:32:54 est From: paa3983 at dscp.dla.mil (Mike Spinelli) Subject: Quit Bitchin' / RIMS...the final froniter HBDers, On bitching: I try as best I can to focus on the good that people do as opposed to the bad. Without question the HBD "gurus" have contributed more to homebrewing than any other resource I can think of. And they don't ask for $33 membership dues or for you to make a purchase at their HB store. Do a search of the HBD archives with my name in it. You'll see a guy who in '94 was wet behind the ears and didn't know jack about brewing. Skip forward about 1,200+ HBDs and I'm now up to 30 gallons at a pop while at the same time making friends in almost every corner of the world. All in large part t due to the HBD. None of us are perfect.......focus on the good. - ------------------------------------------------- RIMS.... In my quest to step-mash a 60 pound mash, I've learned thru the HBD "gurus" the pros and cons of steam injection. One thing I hadn't thought about til now was doing the temp. increases via RIMS. I've got the pump, so I guess all I'd need is a heat source to raise the temps. Could it be as simple as running the wort thru the pump and then thru a coil of copper tubing which is submerged in hot water that's heated with propane? Could it be this simple?? Seems alot easier than building a 1/2 barrel steam cooker. If I used, say a 50' ft. roll of 1/2" coppe r and placed it in a 1/2 barrel keg filled with water that's heated underneath, would it raise the mash temps. in an acceptable time? Thanks to all of you and long live the HBD !!! Mike Spinelli, Cherry Hill NJ Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 09:54:49 -0400 From: Dave Hinrichs <dhinrichs at quannon.com> From: Tom Alaerts <TomA at BUT.BE> Subject: re: skunk smell I know that brown glass is a much better protection against this phenomenon than green glass or clear glass. Here in Belgium Corona is ridiculously expensive for what it is, so the bottles are not taken from the shelves often. So I never understood how those crystal-clear bottles of Corona that are in a brightly lit store for more than a week don't develop this bad smell. Does anyone know the reason? Tom Alaerts I don't know the method but talking to the head brewmaster at Minnesota Brewing which makes Grain Belt in a clear bottle. It takes alot of care and several tricks to toughen the beer to light. He would not reveil his secrets. I suspect that a chemical is added as well. Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 10:01:46 -0700 From: George_De_Piro at berlex.com Subject: Kubessa process question Hi all, The Kubessa process is a mashing technique where the husks are separated from the rest of the grist and not added to the mash until just before vorlauf (recirculation). The goal of this is to minimize the amount of grain phenols that get into the wort. Kunze talks about this process a bit (a really small bit) in _Technology Brewing and Malting_, and says that it is seldom used. Why is it seldom used? Sounds like a good idea. If you were using a mash filter, you would not need the husks at all. Is this done? Have fun! George De Piro (Nyack, NY) Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 09:11:26 -0400 From: Doug Moyer <Douglas.Moyer at geics.ge.com> Subject: Stout history; corriander; hop pests; hops FAQ Dearest collective, I have several questions, but not much time to read the HBD anymore, so a direct response would be preferred. (1) At our next club meeting, I will be discussing the history of stout as a style. I know that this was discussed a bit recently, and if I have time, I will do a archive search. Short of buying more books (not in the budget) can any of you suggest some good on-line references? Or, if you feel like typing, could you send me info from your books? (2) I have a nice cilantro plant growing in my herb garden, and I would like to use the seeds for a wit. Any advice on how to process the seeds? Should I let them dry on the plant, or pick them and dry them myself? If the latter, how? Any other pointers? (3) I've noticed that my hops (first year) are starting to show a certain "laciness" to the leaves. I don't know what kind of bug is eating them. Any suggestions on killing the bugs, or keeping them away? If I use a pesticide, what considerations must I make? (I've never done any type of gardening prior to this year, so I'm basically lost!) (4) Are there any good FAQ's or other resources on the net for growing hops? TIA & CIAO Doug Moyer Star City Brewers Guild: http://hbd.org/starcity (under construction) Pictures of my baby: http://www.rev.net/kmoyer Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 10:49:46 -0400 From: "Ludwig's" <dludwig at us.hsanet.net> Subject: heating element temp > Does anyone know (or have a good estimate of) the surface temperature of a > RIMS electrical heating element, when it is in the condition of full on, > say at the start of a temp. raise period? I guess I am referring to the > low-watt-density elements, that are run at reduced voltage and 1/4 power > with great success in electrical rims systems. Bill, I think that's a tough one to answer because it depends on the heat transfer rate from the element. The element surface temp is going to be different depending on whether it's immersed in a stagnent vessel of water, or in a tube with water flowing through it or if it's out in the air and the temperature of the liquid itself. I would suspect that the rims systems that experience carmelization have a higher element surface temp than the others that don't and that would be due to higher watt density or lower flowrate or maybe more entrained air in the mash liquid. I'm not a rims user or use heating elements so no first hand knowledge. Also, the more I think about the steam idea. Is there any significant advantage to injecting say a lb of steam at 215 deg and a lb of water at 212 deg? If your injecting the steam through a nozzle in to the flow, soon as it hits the flow, it will just be a dribble of hot water and would take a lot of steam to heat effectively. Dave Ludwig Flat Iron Brewery SO Md Return to table of contents
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