---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com


Contents:
  Re: skunk smell (sadownik)
  Nimrod (Dan McLaughlin & Christine Griffith)
  update: bitter/sweet ("Frederick L. Pauly")
  Big Brew Labels; Teflon Tape (Charley Burns)
  Counter Pressure Filling (BernardCh)
  A Primer on Steam (Part 1 of 3) ("William W. Macher")
  Corona? Really? (Some Guy)
  No-weld ball valves made easy ("J. Lonner")
  Citric beer/dextrose-malto dex (JGORMAN)
  Carry-On Homebrew and the Airport Security (Dan Schultz)
  Aeration of partially fermented Wort (Steven Gibbs)
  Re: Kettle Drain Fittings NO WELDING! (Krweisel)
  A Primer on Steam (part 2 of 3) ("William W. Macher")
  windscreen (dbgrowler)
  AHA Critique (Jim Liddil)
  CP Filling Mini Kegs (Rick Theiner)
  A Primer on Steam (part 3 of 3) (william macher)
  Where Have All the Posters Gone? (John W. Braue, III)
  brewing at sea;  rims heater control (AKGOURMET)
  Grain mill settings ("Raymond C. Steinhart")


Have you entered a MCAB qualifier yet?


NOTE NEW HOMEBREW ADDRESS:  hbd.org 

Send articles for __publication_only__ to post@hbd.org
  (Articles are published in the order they are received.) 

If your e-mail account is being deleted, please unsubscribe first!!

To SUBSCRIBE or UNSUBSCRIBE send an e-mail message with the word
  "subscribe" or "unsubscribe" to request@hbd.org. 
**SUBSCRIBE AND UNSUBSCRIBE REQUESTS MUST BE SENT FROM THE E-MAIL
**ACCOUNT YOU WISH TO HAVE SUBSCRIBED OR UNSUBSCRIBED!!! 
IF YOU HAVE SPAM-PROOFED your e-mail address, the autoresponder and
  the SUBSCRIBE/UNSUBSCRIBE commands will fail!

For "Cat's Meow" information, send mail to brewery at hbd.org

Homebrew Digest Information on the Web: http://hbd.org

Requests for back issues will be ignored. Back issues are available via:

  Anonymous ftp from...
	ftp://hbd.org/pub/hbd/digests
	ftp://ftp.stanford.edu/pub/clubs/homebrew/beer

  AFS users can find it under...
        /afs/ir.stanford.edu/ftp/pub/clubs/homebrew/beer

JANITORS on duty: Pat Babcock and Karl Lutzen (janitor@hbd.org)


----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 16:57:51 +0200
From: sadownik at delta.sggw.waw.pl
Subject: Re: skunk smell

In HBD # 2750 Tom Alaerts asks:
"how those crystal-clear bottles of Corona that are in a brightly lit
store for more than a week don't develop this bad smell. Does anyone
know the reason ?"

I'm sure many know and many will answer... but in a context of a recent 
"fearful lurker" debate decided to show up with my explanation:

Skunk smell in beer derives from hop's isoalpha-acids (isohumulones) which
decompose in light (energy) splitting off isopentenyl radicals (molecules
carrying unpaired electron). These highly reactive species end-up as
methylbutenthiols (or methylbutenyl mercaptans) after possible abstraction
of thiol group (SH) from beer peptides (cysteine).
Anyway, the same methylbutenthiol is a major constituent of a skunk defence
excretion.
So, Corona and other transparent glass bottled beers must be brewed with a hop
extract in which alpha-acids have been previously isomerised (chemically, in 
slightly alkaline conditions; not prolonged heating as in kettle required ) 
and resulting isoalpha-acids chemically modified before additon to wort.
Modification here is just a carbonyl group (C=O) reduction to a hydroxy group
(CH-OH) easy to achieve with a sodium borohydride as a reducing agent.
Such modified isoalpha-acid isn't prone any more to easy decomposition in
light but retains it's bittering properties.

 - Do not think bad about chemistry !
 - Long live HBD !

Andrzej Sadownik
Warszawa, Poland

 


Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 11:01:32 -0400
From: Dan McLaughlin & Christine Griffith <danchris.mcl at erols.com>
Subject: Nimrod

Nimrod is also a British designation for one of their military planes, I
believe it is similar to a P3 Orion in size and used for anti sub
warfare.
	Dan


Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 11:05:41 -0400
From: "Frederick L. Pauly" <flp2m at avery.med.virginia.edu>
Subject: update: bitter/sweet

That bittersweet flavor I sense in Domminion Brewery's Hop
Pockets is comming from dry hopping. I just kegged a 10 gallon
batch, half of which was dry hopped with 1 oz. of Cascade leaf
and one that was not. The flavor difference is amazing and the
flavor I was looking for.
Thanks to all of you who pointed me in the right direction. Also
thanks to the great hops from Peterbourough Farms and Fresh Hops.
Rick Pauly
Charlottesville Va.


Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 26 Jun 98 08:22 PDT
From: caburns at egusd.k12.ca.us (Charley Burns)
Subject: Big Brew Labels; Teflon Tape

Has anyone designed a special bottle label for Big Brew '98? Please send me 
electronic version of it if you have (bitmap, tiff, gif, etc.). I've got two 
cases of big brew that I'd like to label for posterity.

Got at least a dozen emails that said "use the teflon tape" when attaching 
the stainless ball valve to the stainless nipple on my new kettle. Got one 
email that said "don't do it, it'll burn!". Randy E. looked it up and said 
the burning point of teflon tape was >500F. I used it last night, boiled up 
some water for a cleaning run and it's just fine.

Charley in N. Cal



Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 11:08:25 EDT
From: BernardCh at aol.com
Subject: Counter Pressure Filling

Dave who just started kegging in HBD 2750 asks about CP fillers. . . 
 
> I just started kegging and would like to be able to fill bottles
> occassionally.  The new CP filler from Phil's looks interesting since
> it only has one valve and sounds a lot easier to operate than the
> 3-valve designs.  <snip>  Can anyone offer suggestions on a good CP filler?

On this forum and others I've noticed every so often people lamenting about
how difficult their 3 valve CP fillers are to use.  Most comments center
around the human body not having enough hands to operate the thing
effictively.

I kept this in mind when looking to purchase a CP filler and finally settled
on the Hoptech (www.hoptech.com) filler (insert standard "no affiliation"
boiler plate verbage here).  What distinguishes this filler for almost every
other filler I remember seeing is that is has only one valve and can literally
be operated with one hand, leaving the other hand available for homebrew.

The top of the filler at the "T" where the usual valves are placed for the gas
and beer lines have been replaced by a 3-way valve.  The usual location of the
third valve has been replaced by an adjustable spring loaded pressure relief.
After calibrating the pressure relief prior to a bottling session (about a 30
second operation) the operation of the filler is simple.  Simply place the
filler in the bottle, turn the three way valve to the gas side, allow the
bottle to flush the air out the pressure relief and fill the bottle with gas.
After about 10 seconds turn the valve handle 180 degrees to the beer side.
The beer bottle will fill and the excess gas will bleed through the relief.
When the bottle is full, shut the beer off (very important - see below),
remove the filler and cap.  If the beer tends to foam, just a little
"feathering" of the escaping gas by placing a finger over the reilef does the
trick.  Also I disassemble the pressure relief after every use to clean it (2
pieces) - See below.

The only complaint I have with the filler is that if you forget to shut the
beer off when the bottle is full,  a stream of beer ends up shooting out the
pressure relief hitting the CP filler operator in the center of the forehead.
This, however is an operator problem.  Perhaps I should place a government
type warning on my bottles (do not drive, operate heavy machinery or CP fill
while drinking Homebrew :)

Chuck
BernardCh at aol.com
Music City Brewers, Nashville TN - Music City USA
Treasurer, Newsletter Guy, and Webmaster Wannabe



Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 10:19:22
From: "William W. Macher" <macher at telerama.lm.com>
Subject: A Primer on Steam (Part 1 of 3)

A Primer on Steam (part 1 of 3)

Hello all,

I hope there are enough of us out there interested
to make this post worthwhile.

This write up reflects upon the first step in what I fear 
has become an odyssey in steam-injected RIMS 
building...as I have become very good at starting 
various hobby projects over the last years,  and 
EVEN BETTER and not completing them!  But not 
this one!  There is no higher priority than home 
brewing...is there?

Disclaimer...I do not claim to be a Steam 
Engineer...or even an engineer...or even to exist at all!  

The following are the highlights of what I have 
learned recently while digging into the basics of 
steam,  as it may be employed in a RIMS system,  as 
an alternative source of heat in place of the standard 
electrical heating element....

I was attracted to the idea of building a steam-
injected RIMS because I had a gut feeling that steam 
could have positive benefits.  I soon discovered that I 
had no real knowledge of what steam really was,  why 
it was used, or what made it desirable to use.  My first 
readings on the subject,  for whatever reason, made 
the statement "two plus two equals three" seem 
reasonable.  But I soon learned, after spending a  little 
time digging around,  the basic principles are quite 
simple,  once you get the hang of them.

The purpose of this posting is to share what I have 
learned with others who may be interested in applying 
steam to the brewing process,  or just interested in 
learning a bit about a process that they may not have 
considered before, while at the same time possibly 
saving them the need to do the "grunt work" of 
pulling out the old physics text book, and so on.

So here is my interpretation of the facts...accurate to 
the best of my understanding...hope you find this as 
interesting as I do.  I have attempted to keep the math 
to a minimum,  and stress an understanding of the 
process.  The articles referred to at the end dig deeper 
into the calculations, and other concerns. Please do 
check them out.

And here we go...!!

Steam is an excellent medium for transferring heat 
energy from one location to another.  I think it is the 
simplicity of steam that caught my imagination.  
Natural gas,  oil,  coal,  can all be burned to produce 
heat (Gee,  how long did it take you to realize that, 
Bill ? :-))  This heat can be distributed by using steam 
as the medium to carry it,  or it can be used to 
produce electrical power ( turn a turbine,  which turns 
a generator...),  and electrical power can later be 
turned to heat with an electrical heating element.  
Each stage of the process adds its own 
inefficiencies...

What makes steam so good at carrying heat?  Just a 
basic, physical property of the substance we call 
water [H2O].  I guess it is a law of nature.  Water 
exists in three forms,  solid,  liquid,  and gas.  Three 
phases if you like. When water in any form changes 
temperature,  it either absorbs or gives off heat.  To 
quantify this process,  units of heat are used.  
Common units are the BTU and the calorie.  These 
units simply represent the amount of heat that is 
required to raise a certain weight of water one degree 
in the system being considered.  The calorie is the 
metric unit,  and the BTU is the British unit.  One 
refers to the amount of heat that is required to raise 
one gram of water one degree C.  The other is the 
amount of heat required to raise one pound of water 
one degree F.  Surprise quiz:  Which is the metric 
unit?

Don't be confused by the differences in these units.  
Water behaves the same, regardless of how you look 
at it.  I will refer to BTUs here...the numbers are 
smaller and easier to deal with mentally (at least for 
me :-))...but calories work just the same way.

Let's look at a pound of liquid water.  If you add 
enough heat to raise it one degree F. you have added 
1.0 BTU.  If you wanted to raise a pound of water 
from 32 degrees F [just at the freezing point] to 212 F 
[boiling point] you would have to put 180 BTU of 
heat into that pound of water. [212-32 = 180].  One 
pound of water times 180 degrees of change = 180 
BTUs required.

When water changes temperature, or from one phase 
to another,  it either absorbs or gives off energy,  
depending which direction the change is going.  The 
interesting thing is that MORE than 1 unit of heat 
energy is required to change one unit of  liquid water 
to one unit of steam.  A LOT MORE.  This is the key 
that makes steam so attractive.  

Watch these figures closely!  To change a pound of 
liquid water 1 degree F in temperature requires 1 
BTU of heat to move either into, or out of, the water.  
To raise a pound of liquid water from freezing to 
boiling requires 180 BTUs of heat.  To convert one 
pound of liquid water to one pound of steam requires 
1,150 BTUs of heat!  BLINK AND LOOK AGAIN!  
To convert a pound of liquid water to steam takes 
more than SIX TIMES the amount of heat that it 
requires to bring that same pound of water from 
FREEZING TEMPS TO BOILING!  That is a LOT 
of heat energy!

I suppose this fact alone does not mean a whole lot...  
WRONG! This is the key that makes steam so 
attractive!  Because the reverse holds true also.  The 
heat that is input into the pound of water, to make the 
steam is called the "heat of vaporization." When the 
phase change goes the other way...that is, when the 
steam condenses into liquid,  it gives off just as much 
heat as was put into to the liquid water to cause it to 
change to steam in the first place.  This is called the 
"heat of condensation."

Parts 2 and 3 to follow...I love the HBD too!

Bill




Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 13:00:37 -0400 (EDT)
From: Some Guy <pbabcock at oeonline.com>
Subject: Corona? Really?

Tom A. asks about skunking and why it doesn't happen in Corona.

Huh? Have you tried it? Admittedly, I have not attempted to drink a Corona
in well over 9 years, but it was *always* skunked back then. And, one of
the oft repeated "jokes" in instructing someone in the making of Corona is
to let the carboy sit on the windowsill for a while before bottling. 

I guess the short answer is that it DOES skunk in the crystal clear 
glass. I'm not sure what manner of sorcery is employed in the Belgian 
imported Corona if it doesn't. 

(Aside: Miller High Life purportedly uses an extract in which the <highly 
technical compund name of which my feeble mind cannot recall> is removed 
so that the beer will not skunk in their crystal clear bottle. To the 
best of my knowledge, the same is not true for Corona.)

See ya!

Pat Babcock in SE Michigan         pbabcock at oeonline.com
Home Brew Digest Janitor           janitor@hbd.org
HBD Web Site                       http://hbd.org   
The Home Brew Page                 http://oeonline.com/~pbabcock/brew.html
   "Just a cyber-shadow of his former brewing self..."



Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 10:06:18 -0700 (PDT)
From: "J. Lonner" <jlonner at u.washington.edu>
Subject: No-weld ball valves made easy

Brewers,

In response to the recent requests for step-by-step instructions on how to
install a no-weld ball valve (including tools and part numbers), here's
what I did to install one in the converted 10-gallon cornelius keg that I
use as a boiler.

Swagelok is a company that manufactures and sells industrial valve and
tubing supplies.  They make bulkhead fittings in different sizes and
materials.  I bought the 1/2" size in stainless steel (part #SS-810-11-8) 
and paid $20.50 for it.  Pricey, but it's so nice and shiny... 

Anyway, the fitting is basically a coupling that passes through a wall
(bulkhead) and is tightened down by a nut.  One end has a compression
fitting on it, the other has 1/2" pipe thread (or NPT as you'll see it
called in hardware stores).  The compression fitting end accepts 3/8" 
tubing, and I used soft copper to fashion a circular manifold with hacksaw
slits in the bottom.  This part goes inside the boiler.  For outside the
kettle, I bought a 1/2" ball valve to connect to the bulkhead fitting, and
a hose barb to fit the ball valve.  This allows me to direct cooled wort
into my fermenter by using vinyl tubing of the sort used in racking.  This
just happens to fit my needs well; YMMV. 

Anyway, to install the bulkhead fitting I used a 3/4" bimetal hole saw
to drill a hole in the side of my boiler, about 2" up from the bottom. The
bulkhead fitting just barely squeezes through this opening.  To make the
seal more watertight, I used two 3/4" fiber washers (one on each side of
the boiler) that I fit over the bulkhead fitting before tightening it
down.  You then attach the manifold and ball valve to their respective
connections, and you're good to go.

This setup has worked very well for me (no leakage at all), and makes the
transfer of cooled wort to the fermenter very slick.  I still get about
1-2" of trub in my fermenter (depending on the grain bill) but I choose
not to worry about it.  A few caveats:  I only use whole hops, under the
assumption that they will help to establish a filter bed more effectively
than pellets.  Also, I haven't tried this setup using Irish moss or a
really proteinaceous grain bill.  I intend to brew up a wit before too
long, however, and we'll see how my manifold handles the goopy hot break I
expect to get by using 50% unmalted wheat.

Cheers,

Jay Lonner
Seattle




Return to table of contents


Date: 26 Jun 1998 13:14:49 -0400
From: JGORMAN at steelcase.com
Subject: Citric beer/dextrose-malto dex


Has anyone ever tried to use lemon or other citrus fruit in the secondary
(particularly in wheat beer)?  What was the result and how much did you add?

Is dextrose sugar and malto dextrin the same?  If they are not is malto
dextrin fully fermentable?


Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 13:01:00 -0700
From: Dan Schultz <dschultz at primenet.com>
Subject: Carry-On Homebrew and the Airport Security

I have taken carry on homebrew many a time on the west coast without a
problem. I have also given out many to work associates that are on their
way out of town. Being a frequent flyer, I know better than to pack it
in my checked luggage. If you must, I suggest lots of absorbant padding
and a sealable bag to prevent leakage and hard side luggage.

I happen to have a carry-on size of luggage that holds two six packs
nicely. I put it through the X-ray machine which usually draws a search
of the bag. I note that it's homebrew and they let me on my way. Maybe
because homebrew is so popular in Oregon, the airport security have
gotten used to seeing it.

I guess if I was drinking Budmilloors all the time and saw someone come
through my security post with homebrew, I'd confiscate it too. So offer
them a random bottle and they'll probably let you go on your way.

Burp,
 -Dan



Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 11:11:04 -0700
From: Steven Gibbs <gibbs at lightspeed.net>
Subject: Aeration of partially fermented Wort

I have a problem. Yes, those of us who have brewed for years still
encounter issues which really confuse us. I brewed a Belgian Tripel OG
1.097 using a conventional grist recipe and adding 2 lbs. of corn sugar
to get to my 97. My problem is that I cultured from a slant a 250 ml
paste in a 1 liter starter to pitch into my 4 gallons of tripel, and
after 4 days of excellent krausen and blow off fermentation my gravity
had only dropped to a 1.071 where it has remained for 3 days. Help! On
the one hand I want to just drop my stone into the partially fermented
wort and blast the heck out of it to re-aerate the brew. By the time you
read this I will have already done just that but I have this lingering
feeling that I will be creating an intolerable staling effect and other
"off" flavors for the long term storage of the hopefully fully
attenuated tripel.

However, I discussed the problem with another brewer (who originally got
me into the hobby some 12 years ago) and his take on the problem was
that once the yeast was roused and surrounded by a sufficient amount of
O2, that the little worker yeast's will probably scrub out most of the
problems that I am worried about as outlined previously. I do understand
that my real problem was under pitching and I think that the yeast went
aerobic and tried to reproduce to the appropriate level but the
available O2 was extinguished before enough viable yeast could grow to
finish the ferment. At least it has approx. 4% alch. already which may
be enough to inhibit other infections until the aerobic portion ends and
I get it back to the anaerobic fermentation level.
Happy Brewing
Steve in Bakersfield



Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 12:38:45 -0400
From: Krweisel at ra.rockwell.com
Subject: Re: Kettle Drain Fittings NO WELDING!

I've constructed a rather unique post boil Kettle drain / Wort chiller.
Might as well add it
to the current discussion.

I use 3/8" copper tubing, bent into a U shaped top that connects to a 25'
3/8" coper tube
in a garden hose chiller. The U part is long enough on the straight section
of the
U  (used upside down) to fit over the top of the boil kettle and siphon the
hot wort up
and out of the boil kettle, down into the coiled chiller. The outlet of the
chiller has
a standard 1/2" water valve soldered in line, ending with a 3/8" copper
tube. I
slide a plastic siphon tube onto the end of the copper and run that into
the fermenter.

I normally boil in 10 gal batches outside on our back porch, the wort
chiller sits about
6" below the bottom of the boil kettle. (left on the propane burner stand)
I run the plastic
hose through the basement window and down to the fermenters so I can get a
good
siphon head. No lifting or carrying of any hot liquids, and even the
carboy(s) are in the
basement at the end. I sanitize by draining the bleach solution from the
carboys through
the contraption, rinse, and leave filled with tap water with the valve
closed to carry
it up to the kettle. Then attach the plastic drain hose, open the valve and
we're off
and running...

Simple assembly with no holes / welding in the main kettle, all built with
off the shelf
copper parts. You may have to look to find the proper compression fittings
and such
for a 3/8 to 1/2, and to end the hose with a garden "T" compressed onto a
3/8 tube,
but all the parts are available.    Why bother drilling holes and welding
stainless,
let gravity siphon it !

Karl Weisel - Cleveland Heights, Ohio.




Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 14:44:17
From: "William W. Macher" <macher at telerama.lm.com>
Subject: A Primer on Steam (part 2 of 3)

A Primer on Steam (part 2 of 3)

Hello again :-)

A few more details...

Since so much energy is absorbed in during the 
transition from liquid to vapor,  the steam can be 
transported via a pipe,  and then condensed where the 
heat is needed.  When the steam condenses,  the "heat 
of condensation" is released.  The net effect,  
especially if the lines transporting the steam are well 
insulated,  is practically the same as if the heat source 
itself were located at the end of the pipeline,  where 
the steam condenses and gives off it tremendous heat 
content.

The temperature at which liquid water changes to 
steam is dependent on pressure.  At sea level the 
conversion from liquid to vapor occurs at 212 degrees 
F.  As elevation increases,  pressure decreases,  and 
the temperature at which liquid water changes to 
vapor decreases...water boils at lower temperatures 
on mountain top...as we all know.

If the pressure on the liquid water is increased,  say 
like in grandma's pressure cooker,  the boiling point 
increases...at 15 psig (Pounds per Square Inch Gage, 
which means 15 pounds above normal air pressure) 
the boiling point increases to about 250 degrees F.  

When heat is applied to liquid water and this water 
reaches the boiling point,  the temperature "locks in" 
and holds at the boiling point,  and the water begins 
changing state and turns to vapor.  This vapor is what 
we call steam.  If we heated alcohol it would also 
reach a point at which it changed to vapor, but 
naturally we would not call this steam. I know it is an 
obvious point... 

What is less obvious,  is that the temperature inside 
the vessel will not increase above the boiling point of 
the water (at the given pressure) until all the water has 
completely turned to steam. 

Anyway,  the steam generated in a pressure cooker 
will be at the temperature of the liquid within the 
pressure cooker. And the liquid in the pressure cooker 
will be at the temperature determined by the pressure 
within the pressure cooker.  This is normally a 
function of the litter "jigger" that rests on the top of 
the cooker and "chuga, chuga, chugas" as the 
potatoes are being cooked...The reason we state that 
our canned wort (for yeast starters)  needs to be 
pressure cooked at 15 psig to kill the botch....[Oh, no! 
Not THAT again] ...spores is that by stating the 
pressure we ensure that the temperature is high 
enough.  15 psig = 249.8 F,  while 5 psig = 227 F.

A couple other points to consider:

What is a pound of steam?  Simply the amount of 
steam that is generated by converting a pound of 
liquid water to steam. 

How much water is in a pound?  A gallon of water 
weighs 8.33 lb., so a quart of water is about 2 lb.  So 
roughly,  a pint of water is a pound, more or less.

Would direct injection of steam add liquid volume to 
the mash?  Yes...a pound of water,  converted to 
steam,  and injected into the mash would add a pint of 
liquid to the mash. 

When water turns to steam,  how much does it 
expand?  The density of water at atmospheric 
pressure at sea level is about 59.8 LB per cubic foot 
(at 212 deg. F). Steam density at the same 
pressure/temp is 0.037 LB/Cu. Ft.  The amount of 
expansion is therefore 59.8/0.037 which equals 1,602.  
In other words,  when a quantity of water is converted 
into steam, it expands to 1,600 times its original 
volume. Conversely,  when steam condenses,  a 
bubble of steam will reduce to 1/1600 its original 
size,  as it gives off its Heat of Condensation and 
becomes a tiny drop of liquid water.

How much steam might I need to mash the grains for 
a 10 gal batch?  Well,  let's see...

Using round numbers,  lets just work with plain 
water,  and assume that the extra water compensates 
for the grain that would normally be in there.  Let's 
use 10 gal of water to represent the mash mix, for 
simplicity.  Let's also raise the 10 gal of water from 
100 F to 150 F,  and follow that by a temp raise to 
167 F.  (I know this "over simplifies" the real 
situation,  but it certainly does convey the basic 
principles.)

10 gallons of water weighs 83 lb.  Temperature rise 
from 100 to 150 F is 50 degrees.  BTUs needed for 
this temp rise is 83 x 50,  or 4,150 BTUs.

A pound of steam gives off 1,150 BTU when it 
condenses.  4,150/1,150 = 3.6 pounds of steam is 
required.  Since a quart of water is about 2 lb.,  about 
1.8 quarts of water would end up in the mash as the 
result of the steam condensing there.  Naturally,  the 
condensate would be at 212 degrees F,  and it would 
add some heat as well,  but the condensate would add 
less than 10 percent of the total requirement, the "seat 
of my pants" tells me.

Moving up to mash-out temp,  is only a 17 degree 
rise.  17 x 83 = 1,411 BTUs required.  1,400/1,150 = 
1.25 pounds of steam.  This equates to a little over a 
pint of condensate that will be added to the mash.

I know this is simplified,  but I think it conveys the 
point well.  To heat 8 gal of water from 100 to 167 F,  
using steam,  results in an additional 2.5 quarts of 
water condensing in the tun.  Add something for temp 
loss during the mash,  and the net result is still less 
than a 10 percent increase in liquid.

Part 3 of 3 to follow...

Let's all spend a moment to thank the Janitors for
their work in keeping the HBD alive and well...

Bill





Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 17:44:21 -0400
From: dbgrowler at juno.com
Subject: windscreen

Tim writes:
"I am thinking of making a sleeve to go around my cajun cooker. The Idea
that I have is to cut a 55 gal drum perpendicular to its axis at a length
that would just be taller than the top of the burner. The reasons for
this 
are to block the wind (I brew outside) and to focus the heat on the 
bottom of the converted keg boiler. If anyone has done this before I
would 
greatly appreciate the do's and dont's."

DO provide some means for air intake, or the burner DON'T burn too well!

Put lotsa air holes or slots in your windscreen below the burner level to
allow 
air in for combustion, or make "legs" to keep the bottom of your wind
baffle a
few inches off the ground.

Mike Bardallis
Boiling over in Allen Park, MI


_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]


Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 15:58:07 +0000
From: Jim Liddil <jliddil at azcc.arizona.edu>
Subject: AHA Critique

This is an AHA post, PAGE DOWN NOW if you don't want to read this.  But
first on the issue of bandwidth.  Get real.  I bet the majority of ISP's
have unlimited use limits (or like IBM.net,100 hours) so I really doubt in
this day and age people are paying to download the HBD.  I am sure their
are exceptions to this.  Also the bandwidth of the HBD is a drop in the
bucket compared to the bandwidth used browsing the web.  Look at the
hbd.org page itself and the way it has banners that constantly reload.
Three of the listservs I get generate more stuff in one day than the hbd
does all week.  Make the digest come out twice a day at 12 and 1 am.
Brewery.org is one of the few sites that has not gone to the groovy  java,
frames etc. model.  It looks essentially like it did from it's inception.
Remember how web pages used to look?  You can always unsubscribe and read
the hbd via html.

Which reminds me the brewery.org is only as good as the links.  So if you
know of any broken links let the janitors know so they can fix them.

So now how can we get rid of the AHA?  As far as people saying "let's work
to improve the AHA".  Check the rcb and hbd archives and you will see that
people have been "trying" for years.  It's won't work until Castro (Charlie
p, I like the analogy someone used, beard, cigar) is dead!  People keep
saying how they started out with the NCJOHB etc.  Well there have been many
leaders of fanatical groups who at the time were viewed as great and also
wrote books.  Mao (little red book), Hitler (mein kampf), marx (communist
manifesto) come to mind.  History ultimately decided they were not so
great. Stalin also comes to mind.  I see parallels between Hitler and
Charlie in the way they try to use their speeches to get people into a
crowd mentality (RDWHAHB).  Many of these leaders tried to conquer the
world and started out small.  Look at Charlie he started in homebrewing and
now is holding boondoggles all over the world.

And many of these "leaders" had henchmen to do their dirty work.  Hitler
had the Gestapo and the SS.  Charlie has Cathy Ewing to spill the blood.
Why do you think  Jim Parker and Amahl bailed?  Granted they had other
opportunities, but recall how positive they were about "change" a year ago?
Recall the post about judges being dis-invited to the party in Atlanta
"Charlie only wants Brian and the lady who disinvited us"  Guess who that
lady was?

Remember that is was the AOB that screwed up the hbd a while ago and made
various excuses about what happened.  The AHA talkback forum is a joke.
Weeks go by with no one from the AHA posting and then they make all sort of
apologies.  Check it out for yourselves use 31621 as an id and 013198 as a
password.   

Again I'll reiterate that the AOB lists on their tax form as their PRIMARY
reason for tax exemption "promotion of homebrewing".  So why aren't they
spending more money on Zymurgy than they do on The New Brewer?  Why are
they spending money on the 1998 International Beer Executives Symposium
rather than spending the money to make sure the NHC is run correctly?

"Boulder, March 3, 1997 ~ The curtain is ready to be raised as the American
Homebrewers Association (AHA) unveils a "new AHA" to the organization's
more than 23,000 members.   Based on input from members and the homebrewing
community, the AHA has added new membership benefits designed to appeal to
a wider variety of homebrewers and improved responsiveness to members with
new programs and operating procedures. "

Here we are a year later.  Same as it ever was.

>More Book Discounts
By screwing over the small retailer

>Brew U, the long awaited beer evaluation program, is approaching roll-out!
A complete class schedule and in-depth self-study course will be available
in April 1997. 

Non existent.  

We don't need the AHA or the NHC.  I think homebrewers can get along fine
with BJCP sanctioned comps.  The AHA is doing nothing to help improve
competitions or train judges.

More Disinformation:

"Representation has also been addressed. In an effort to better represent
the membership as a whole, the AHA Board of Advisers has expanded from 12
to 15 members. The Board's role has also been expanded allowing Board
members more opportunities to provide input and become directly involved
with programs. A new Board subcommittee structure will also be adopted. In
addition, a new Association of Brewers (AOB) Board of Directors liaison
position has been created. A member of the AOB Board of Directors will be
actively involved with the AHA Board of Advisers, giving AHA members a
direct link to the AOB governing Board."

I don't know about you but the AOB looks like the USSR to me. Propaganda
and disinformation.  We never hear a peep out of the BofA one way or the
other.  How the heck can they be representing us if they never ask us our
opinions?

"A new Association of Brewers (AOB) Board of Directors liaison position has
been created. A member of the AOB Board of Directors will be actively
involved with the AHA Board of Advisers, giving AHA members a direct link
to the AOB governing Board. "

Again I'll ask who is this person?

I'll be spending my money at Siebels rahter than the NHC conference and I
Imagine by the time this hits the queue that's where I'll be.  

Jim Liddil	Tucson, AZ


Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 20:22:27 -0400
From: Rick Theiner <logic at skantech.com>
Subject: CP Filling Mini Kegs

>> I will need to get a bung to fit the 7/8 inch hole in the mini-keg in 
>> order to fill it with the CP filler. Does anyone know the bung 
>> size/number for this diameter? 

I have done this by using a #8 rubber stopper.  It doesn't actually plug
the hole properly, but due to the flat surface around the hole of the
mini-keg, it does provide a pretty good seal.

- -- 
Rick Theiner
LOGIC, Inc.
LOGIC at skantech.com


Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 19:47:33
From: william macher <macher at telerama.lm.com>
Subject: A Primer on Steam (part 3 of 3)

A Primer on Steam (part 3 of 3)

Hi, back again :-)

The grand finally...like at the end of the fireworks...
Is that how you spell it?

A possible advantage to steam over an electrical 
heating element is that it is self limiting;  that is, the 
maximum temperature it can impart into the mash is 
whatever the steam is generated at.  This is set by the 
physics of the system.  Directing steam from a 
pressure cooker into the mash should result in a very 
low pressure steam.  There is little back pressure felt 
by the steam at the injection point,  and the 
temperature of the steam is a set by the pressure at 
which it is generated.  This pressure will be the sum 
of the pressure drop in the steam line and the pressure 
of the liquid at the injection point. [comments on 
super-heated steam to follow momentarily ].  So it is 
very likely that the maximum temperature one would 
experience with steam sent directly from a pressure 
cooker to the mash would be about 220 F (2 psig).  If 
the pressure in the pressure cooker were 5 psig,  the 
steam temp would be 227 F. This  should eliminate 
the likelihood of scorching.  Steam may be a kinder, 
gentler heat source for a RIMS application!

Super-Heated Steam

While steam as generated by boiling of water will be 
at the temperature of the boiling water,  it is possible 
to raise the temperature of the steam.  This would be 
done if you wanted to boil the wort in your kettle with 
steam,  rather than by using a flame under the kettle.  
It is unlikely that super-heated steam would be an 
advantage in the mashing application,  and more 
likely that it would cause problems with over heating 
of the grain in the area of injection, if direct injection 
were used.

One way of super heating steam is to take the steam line
that brings the steam out of the kettle,  and make a coil 
of  tubing [ stainless steel tubing] that can be 
put in the flame under the pressure cooker [see: 
Steam Injection, by Charlie Scandrett,  referenced 
below].  The steam comes out of the pressure cooker 
at near 220 degrees F.  As it passes through the coil 
of tubing in the burner's flame,  it will increase in 
temperature.  The amount of temperature increase 
will be a function of coil length,  steam flow rate, and 
burner used.  It will certainly be a good bit above the 
boiling point of the wort in the boiling kettle.

Super-heated steam can be used to boil water/wort if 
desired.  It has been reported that using steam is 
advantageous when brewing very light beers.  Seems 
reasonable, as again,  the maximum temperature 
inflicted on the wort would be a function of the steam 
temperature.  And the steam temperature,  even when 
super heated as described above,  if very likely 
significantly lower than a gas burner flame under the 
kettle.

Another advantage of using steam for wort boiling 
would be that the boiling kettle sides and bottom 
could be fully insulated. It has also been pointed out 
that the condensate which is results from steam 
injection can replace evaporative losses incurred 
during the boil.

Please refer to the following additional articles 
related to using steam in home-brewing:

Steam Injection, by Charlie Scandrett,  at:

http://www.brewery.org/brewery/library/SteInjCS1295.html

Direct Injection of Steam for Mash Temperature 
Control,  by Kelly E. Jones, at:

http://brewingtechniques.com/library/backissues/issue2.4/jones.html

There is also a neat beta shareware Water and Steam 
Properties program that runs under Windows NT or 
Windows 95,  at:

http://users.lia.net/katmar/wasp.htm

And...1995 was an especially good year for discussion
of steam injection on the HBD.  You might want to search
the archives....

As my experience in the fabrication of a steam 
injected RIMS continues,  I will post updates if there 
is anything of interest to report.

Hope this is of interest!

Bill 

Thank you Janitors!  Thank you contributors!  The 
HBD is great!  Let's keep the positive vibes flowing!



Bill Macher   macher at telerama.lm.com  Pittsburgh, PA   USA


Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 21:08:01
From: braue at ratsnest.win.net (John W. Braue, III)
Subject: Where Have All the Posters Gone?

In HBD #2750 "A. J. deLange" <ajdel at mindspring.com> writes:

>Sam Mize wrote:
>
>>>... people with good opinions are being
>>> driven off-line for fear of impending head bashing.
>
>>I am pleading with anyone who agrees with that comment.
>
>I'm afraid I must as I remember one case from the past well. I can't
>remember what the post was about but the poor guy got just about
>everything back ass. There was nothing reasonable to do but write the
>guy privately and say something like "Gee, I'll bet you haven't looked
>at this stuff in a while because water isn't really 13 times heavier
>than mercury, it's the other way around". I did this but several others
>chose to flog this poor guy publicly. He sent me private e-mail saying
>that he'd never post here again, and he hasn't. I've also noticed that
>some of the names I used to see don't appear here any more. There are
>lots of reason why this may be true but I know of at least one case
>where it was the tone that drove a contributor off. It just never, ever
>hurts to be kind.

And Charles L. Ehlers <clehlers at flinthills.com> suggests:
>Subject: Re. Fearful lurkers, please help me
>
>Sam,
>  I'm not a *fearful lurker*, but can understand why some may be hesitant to
>post.
>  First, HBD can appear to be a place for advanced brewers only.  Second, in
>the past year (the time since I first subscribed), HBD has become quite a
>nasty place.  Third, there is a slight tendency toward, not so much
>arrogance, but more like an over-inflated sense of importance or
>snobbishness by some of the experts.

Well, I haven't been in a good fight in hours, so permit me to waste
some bandwidth on this topic.

I haven't posted to the HBD in months.  I no longer brew, and will
probably never brew again, as my health has deteriorated to the
point where it is unsafe for me lift a kettle of boiling wort (I'm
typing this one-handed, as my left hand is, as is usual at this
time of night, a paperweight).  Nonetheless, I still subscribe to
and read the HBD.  I enjoy it, I find it interesting, even the
discussions about rechnical trivia of brewing methods far beyond
those that I ever mastered, or even attempted.

I certainly hope that my reason for abstaining from posting is not
that of everyone whose .sig has vanished from the HBD.  Still, we
must concede that the HBD is not the be-all and end-all of
existence.  There are good reasons for not posting, or even not
subscribing, to any given mailing list.  Short of polling everyone
who has ever posted an article here (and a representative sample,
and honest answers, and...), the reason why names have vanished
will likely never be known.  OTOH, I remember a lot of names (the
owners of some of which provided me with substantial help at times)
from a few years ago.

As for the chap who stated that water was 13 times heavier than
mercury...if that was the only glaring error in an otherwise
sensible post, it might well have been a typo (I was famous in
other circles for that sort of mistake).  If everything was "back
ass", however, he was probably butt-ignorant, and no more to be
tolerated than someone who claimed that a daily dose of prussic
acid would give one a shiny coat. 



- --
John W. Braue, III                     braue at ratsnest.win.net


I've decided that I must be the Messiah; people expect me to work 
miracles, and when I don't, I get crucified.



Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 22:10:22 EDT
From: AKGOURMET at aol.com
Subject: brewing at sea;  rims heater control

>Steve Cloutier offers a gimballed carboy stand as a solution to Keith
>Zimmerman's friend's problem of brewing at sea...
>Hans Geittmann suggests using a carboy handle ($5) and hang the carboy
>from a piece of rope attached to a sturdy beam with a hook somewhere on the
>boat- basically a pendulum instead of a gimbal mechanism.

I wouldn't trust a carboy handle to support a full carboy.  However, one of
those carboy slings that uses nylon webbing looped under the bottom of the
carboy would probably work.  I also like the idea of fermenting in a corny keg
- -- they have built in handles for suspending from something (pendulum-like)
and won't break if they happen to fall or bump into something.  
- ----------------

Now for my question:  

I'm in the process of designing a RIMS (recirculating mash infusion system)
and would like to know what is currently available for a heater controller.  I
don't want to spend the money for a PID right now, so I'm looking for
something less than $100 that will maintain a constant temperature without me
having to stand there and fiddle with it.  Circuit plans are fine.  I don't
understand how they work, but I can solder and follow instructions and we have
a Radio Shack here.  I have the old Zymurgy gadget issue with Rodney Morris's
plans, but I've read some reports that there are flaws.  Does anyone have
updated plans?  I've read most of the digest archives and visited several RIMS
web pages.  So far, I like Keith Royster's system the best, and C.D.
Pritchards CAD drawings are great.  Also thanks to Dion (I forget his last
name) for lots of good information in the digest archives.

Thanks for any help.  Private email is fine or through the HBD.

Bill Wright
Gourmet Alaska - The Quality Kitchenware Store & Homebrew Supply
Juneau, AK


Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 22:23:17 -0500
From: "Raymond C. Steinhart" <rnr at popmail.mcs.net>
Subject: Grain mill settings

John, as I recall you asked about a specific grain mill.  I use a Valley
mill.  I use about .049" for two row pale and .035" for wheat malt.  

Probably no one wants to be chastised for having too fine of a crush or
too course of a crush or not having good efficiency with this crush or
that crush. You get the picture?  I was told to have only husk and
endosperm.  I got extremely poor efficiency.  I try for 1/3 flour 1/3
husk and 1/3 endosperm.  I think I am about 75-80% efficient.  I don't
have a haze problem and sometimes I forget to use Irish moss.

Hope this helps
- -- 
My All Electric RIM Brewing System
"http://www.mcs.net/~rnr"


Return to table of contents

---