---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com


Contents:
  Plate chillers (Al Korzonas)
  WARNING:the unit police (Dave Sapsis)
  RE:One Step ("Marc Battreall")
  Re: One Step ("Steven J. Owens")
  personal experiences with (lack of) sanitation (Stephanie Deter)
  polyclar, bentonite (Randy Ricchi)
  Kettle Fining with IM (bernardch)
  Staling compounds (Dave Williams)
  Can 'o worms / Line's Continental Pilsner (Nathan Kanous)
  home brew work bench (Stankau)
  Gold- Thanks HBD (Bob Wilcox)
  Wild yeast (Dave Humes)
  help me increase my efficiency (Jonathan Edwards)
  4th Annual 8 Seconds of Froth results (AllDey)
  Eis ale? I now need to dilute it.... ("Gregg Soh")
  Snot in my beer; hops and styles (James_E_Pearce)
  Grist% / High Hops! (Jeff Schroeder)
  Tap Handles & CO2 Tanks ("Marc Battreall")
  Water question (WALT.CROWDER)
  RE: Wing Cappers/Rubber Bottoms/Oud Bruin/Webmasters (Alan Monaghan)
  More crystal malt / slaked lime additions (George_De_Piro)
  Fridge cycling (fridge) (Dave Hinrichs)
  Extract Brix Ratings (Fred Waltman)
  The question is:  Does the pumpkin contribute anything other (dbgrowler)
  Beer Currency and Exchange Rate ("Jeffrey M. Kenton")


Have you entered a MCAB qualifier yet?


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Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 13:32:41 -0500 (CDT)
From: Al Korzonas <korz at xnet.com>
Subject: Plate chillers

Scott asked about "plate chillers" and I immediately thought of
"cold plates" which is what I was referring to in my post.  Now that
I read it again, clearly Scott was asking about "plate and frame"
chillers!  Duh!  Yes... these do work quite well, but are extremely
expensive (they come apart for periodic cleaning).  All I can suggest
is that you try to find a used one to make it cost-effective.  I
know that Pub Brewing Systems come with a seriously undersized one
and you may be able to find one of these used.  It seems to me that
any owner of a Pub Brewing System might be willing to sell you theirs
so they can get a properly-sized one.  Look in the back of Brewing
Techniques and/or The New Brewer magazines for used equipment sales.

Al.


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Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 13:54:31 -0700 
From: Dave Sapsis <DAVE_SAPSIS at fire.ca.gov>
Subject: WARNING:the unit police


Having absolutely nothing better to do during my lunch break, I came
across the following from our good friend Scott the BrewRat:

	>Friday morning July 3rd, I woke up and found two 7.75 gallon
Firkins sitting on my front porch.

Personally, I love firkins, not the least because they are 9 gallons.
Nine *Imperial * gallons.  Otherwise known as about a wee dram shy of
10.8 US gallons.  My old and trusty CRC Handbook (1956-57) does list US
Firkins as being 9 U.S. gallons, but I am pretty sure that measure is no
longer used.  In any event, if they are 7.75 something, it aint a
firkin.  
Judging from the pictures, I think you got yourself a real, bona-fide
ponk keg of the illustrious Golden Gate variety.  These were common
before the advent of the univalve Sankey designs.  Top fitting is for
gas, bottom fitting for dispense, bunghole for filling/cleaning.  That
said, they do work well for gravity dispense when a breather valve is
hooked to the top valve.  Try Fox for bungs, valves and valve keys. 

One of the highlights of my recent trip to London was touring Fullers,
and being set aback in the kegging factory.  In addition to the firkins,
they are also currently using kilderkin (18 Imp gals) and the inspiring
barrels (36 Imp gals.)   I instantly looked at my wife and asked:  "I
wonder how much it would cost to ship over one of *those*".

cheers,
- --dave, sweating in Sacto



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Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 17:14:22 -0400
From: "Marc Battreall" <batman at terranova.net>
Subject: RE:One Step

Steven Owens writes in HBD 2761:

   The reason I sought out the homebrew mailing list on this
particular evening: how soon is one-stepped dishware safe to eat off
of?  I'm going camping in a couple weeks and I was thinking about
taking along some onestep to make cleaning up after eating a bit
easier.  This is not "roughing it" - we're going to be at a campground
with faucets, etc, but we can't really trust the water.  I'm hoping
onestep might be a convenient way to sterilize any nasties in the
water.

     I know onestep biodegrades and is safe in two weeks, but how safe
is it two hours after you set the plate aside to dry?  Twenty minutes?
Twelve hours?


Steven,

I just recently purchased a bunch of One Step (TM) to use in my home brewery
and inquired to the collective about its use also. A few things I will tell
you before I quote a reply that I received privately from Al Korzonas.

I am no chemist, but One Step, or any other similar agent does not sterilize
anything. It merely cleanses and sanitizes. About the only good way of
"sterilizing" something is to boil it in water for a few minutes or better
yet, autoclave it in a pressure cooker for 10-15 mins at 15 psi if it can
handle the heat (around 250F inside a pressure cooker). Unfortunately for
me, I got Al's e-mail after I bought a couple of pounds of the stuff. But
hey, it was only a few bucks and I will use it eventually. In my experience,
good old fashioned Clorox bleach works about as good as anything for
cleaning and sanitizing at a rate of about 1-2 ounces per gallon. And its
about as cheap as it gets. I also use Iodophor for glassware, tubing,
stainless steel items, and just about everything else because it rinses alot
better, and used in the right concentration, does not need to be rinsed at
all. As far as your camping trip, I would just boil the stuff you can and
take your chances with the rest. Heck, a bottle of good whiskey will kill
just about anything!!! Same goes for a good barley wine or strong ale!!!!

Anyway, here is a copy of Al's e-mail to me with the One Step info for you
and the collective. (I didn't see him echo it to the HBD so I apologize if
it was already posted and I missed it in the queue).

Al Korzonas wrote:
Marc--
I don't know that much about pH meters, but I would not use the One
Step after a few hours and don't expect much sanitation if you have
grungy equipment.  It is basically something similar to washing soda
mixed with hydrogen peroxide.  As you know, when you put H2O2 on a
cut, it fizzes *for a while*.  Once the fizzing stops, you have water.
Same with the One Step, surmise.  I would even go so far as to say
that if you use it to clean something that is soiled, make up fresh
stuff to sanitize (don't count on stuff that has had contact with
organics to have much sanitation ability left).

Hope this helps Steven,
Have fun camping,

Marc

=======================
Captain Marc Battreall
Backcountry Brewhouse
Islamorada, Florida
batman at terranova.net
captainbrew at hotmail.com



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Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 14:35:43 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Steven J. Owens" <puff at netcom.com>
Subject: Re: One Step

Marc,

I askeD:
>> how soon is one-stepped dishware safe to eat off of?
>>
>>  I'm going camping in a couple weeks and I was thinking about
>> taking along some onestep to make cleaning up after eating a bit
>> easier.  This is not "roughing it" - we're going to be at a campground
>> with faucets, etc, but we can't really trust the water.  I'm hoping
>> onestep might be a convenient way to sterilize any nasties in the
>> water.

You wrote: 
> I am no chemist, but One Step, or any other similar agent does not sterilize
> anything. It merely cleanses and sanitizes. About the only good way of
> "sterilizing" something is to boil it in water for a few minutes or better
> yet, autoclave it in a pressure cooker for 10-15 mins at 15 psi if it can
> handle the heat (around 250F inside a pressure cooker). 

     I guess I was unclear;  we're using bottled water to drink because 
we don't trust the faucet water (at a campground with about 10,000 campers
the local water table gets a bit overstressed...).   Simple enough;  however,
I'm kinda leery about washing dishes in the faucet water too.  I don't want
to lug along three times as much bottled water just to wash the dishes, so
it occurred to me that maybe OneStep might be the answer.

     OneStep is supposed to clean well enough to keep odd things from
growing in my beer, so the question is, can I use it to clean my
dishes and then eat off them an hour later? Or is the residual OneStep
on the dishes bad for you?

> good old fashioned Clorox bleach works about as good as anything for
> cleaning and sanitizing at a rate of about 1-2 ounces per gallon. 

     My mom used to do this, using a dollop of bleach in each
sinkload, but I was never very comfortable about it.  How quickly and
how completely does the bleach evaporate off the dishes?

> all. As far as your camping trip, I would just boil the stuff you can and
> take your chances with the rest. Heck, a bottle of good whiskey will kill
> just about anything!!! Same goes for a good barley wine or strong ale!!!!

     Yes, well I plan to regularly sterilise my digestive system with
single malt scotch on this trip :-).
 
Steven J. Owens
puff at netcom.com


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Date: Tue, 07 Jul 1998 02:07:29 -0600
From: Stephanie Deter <stevi at frii.com>
Subject: personal experiences with (lack of) sanitation

Peter Perez wondered what others had to say about their experiences with
less-than-perfect sanitation.

There's only one time I was less than perfect about sanitizing the ole
turkey baster, and that was checking up on a batch of cider. It smelled and
tasted great at the time. When I checked a few weeks later, I discovered I
had made one damn expensive batch of vinegar.

I've decided that for my purposes, the few extra minutes it takes to
sanitize is worth the effort.

- --Stevi 
- --
stevi at frii.com



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Date: Tue, 07 Jul 1998 21:10:13 -0400
From: Randy Ricchi <rricchi at ccisd.k12.mi.us>
Subject: polyclar, bentonite

I've used polyclar a number of times over the years, more or less following
Dave Millers guidelines in the Complete Handbook of Brewing.

My need for it waxes and wanes; sometimes I'm in a relaxed mood about chill
and yeast haze, other times I am more concerned about beer clarity.

I've generally gone with 2 tablespoons per five gallons (US). As D.M.
mentioned in his book, it does seem to do a decent job settling powdery
yeasts; at least as good as gelatin. As far as chill haze, I'll still get
it, although it MAY clear in the fridge a little sooner than untreated
beer. I prefer most of my beers at cellar temp., so I'm not always
concerned about chill haze. When I really want to chill-proof a beer, I'll
use bentonite at the rate of 5/8 tablespoon per 5 gallons, along with the 2
tablespoons of polyclar.  This treatment, I have found, chill PROOFS beer
right away.

The way I prepare the finings: Sanitize a pint mason jar in bleach
solution. Rinse (I have safe tap water). Boil a cup of water in the mason
jar in the microwave. Put the bentonite and polyclar in the boiling hot
water, stir with a sanitized spoon, and cover the jar with foil, or plastic
wrap & rubber band ( I use foil). Every couple hours, whenever you think of
it, pick up the jar and gently swirl the solution to suspend everything.
The bentonite really clumps, and needs this swirling over the course of a
day or so to totally dissolve in solution.

I'll do all of this the day before I plan to rack to secondary. AFTER I
have racked to secondary, I'll get the beer swirling with my racking cane,
then swirl the fining solution to suspend everything one last time, then
pour it into the beer.  You don't want to swirl the beer like a wild
animal, creating a whirlpool that could possibly aerate your beer - be
gentle!  You also don't want to pour the fining solution into the secondary
before racking the beer, because the bentonite will stick like the clay
that it is to the bottom of the carboy and not mix with the beer. This I
learned the hard way. I like to swirl the beer as opposed to not swirling
it, because the dispersement of the fining solution is immediate. Once the
solution is in the beer, I put my racking cane in and gently swirl for five
or ten seconds every minute or two to for the first five minutes to keep
the stuff suspended.  I then fasten the airlock and leave it alone.  The
next day the beer is surprisingly clear, and probably could be bottled, but
I usually wait another day, maybe two, then bottle by racking again and
adding priming sugar, etc.

I have found that the beers treated this way carbonate as quickly as
untreated beer, they suffer no loss of head retention from the bentonite
treatment, the flavor seems unaffected by the treatment; perhaps cleaner,
if anything, but no loss of malt or hop character, and I can put the beer
in the fridge at 45 deg. F and pull one out the next day and it is clear as
can be.

I don't use the bentonite too often because if I just go the polyclar route
I can omit the day of intermittent swirling. I just add the polyclar to the
cup of boiled water, swirl, and dump in the beer. Settles non-flocculant
yeast (providing primary is completely over) in a day and I can bottle or keg.

One other drawback of bentonite other than the added fuss is it forms a
much larger sludge on the bottom of your carboy than polyclar, so you
probably lose a little more beer in the process, but boy, it works to
chill-proof a beer.

Also, if you have any self-respect as a brewer you will freak out a little
at the thought of pouring this grey sludge-like mud in your beloved beer.

Now, after all that, I have a question:

Since polyclar is supposed to bind with phenols and drop them out of
solution, I have never tried using it in beers like Weizen or Belgian ales
to settle the yeast out, although I would like to. I believe the 4-vinyl
guiacol (sp?) responsible for the clove-like flavor in a weizen is a
phenolic.  I don't know if this is the same as a phenol, so I was afraid
something like polyclar, which removes phenols, may remove weizen character
from a weizen.

You may wonder why I would want to clear yeast from a hefe-weizen.

I want to see if it will increase flavor stability.  My weizens are much
better in the first month or two of their life, than they are when they are
older. They don't really go off; they still taste like weizens, they just
lose some of the fruitiness, and become drier.I want to see if reducing the
yeast population in the bottle will slow the evolution process.

Does anyone know if polyclar would reduce the clove character in a weizen,
or other desirable phenolics found in some belgian ales?



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Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 20:41:23 -0500
From: bernardch at mindspring.com
Subject: Kettle Fining with IM

David Humes writes in HBD #2761 . . .

>The last time I used Irish moss in the kettle I swore I'd never use
>it again.  Now I remember why.  I made an America Pale Ale this
>weekend and used 4 tsp of Irish moss in an 11 gallon batch.  I
>thought this was a fairly modest amount.

I think its about DOUBLE what you should be using.  From what I've read
Miller (Complete handbook) suggests as little as a 1/2 teaspoon in five
gallons while Al K.  (Homebrewing Volume I, sorry Al, gotta make a plug for
the book) recommends 1 teaspoon in five gallons.

I dimly remember a thread about irish moss use in the HBD either early this
year or in 1997.  Search the archives.  I think Al K. did some experiments
on amounts and effect.  Al - help me out here!

I do find it works much better if you rehydrate it in some water just prior
to beginning your brewing session.  Smells like bait, but works better.

Chuck
Bernardch at mindspring.com
Music City Brewers, NAshville TN - Music City USA




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Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 22:33:59 -0400
From: rdavis at gator.net (Dave Williams)
Subject: Staling compounds

Hi HBD,

Back in February I asked a question that was never answered on the list (or
if it was, I missed it).  While I did recieve a couple of helpful private
responses, I was hoping for something more pedantic.  I invite the much
maligned mavens to jump in.  I appreciate your posts even if Paul N.
doesn't.  There was a recent thread on staling and I'd like to start a more
indepth discussion.  Toward that end, the following is my original post
edited slightly:

"Greetings Brewers,

I opened a bottle of American Pale Ale last night that had been stored at
room temperature for about 7months after counter pressure bottling.  I had
saved this beer to compare with subsequent batches.  It had a distinct
sherry flavor so it was obviously a victim of oxidation somewhere along the
line.  Since I have a problem with procedure somewhere in my system, I'd
like to try to narrow down the probable cause.  

So my question is this; at what point in the brewing process is oxidation
most likely to create the compounds that are responsible for the sherry
flavor in my beer?  Is HSA the culprit or have I been reckless in my racking?  

This  problem has not reared its ugly head until now because I've stored all
of my beer in the fridge until it's consumed and none of it has lasted long
enough to become stale.  But I want to enter some competitions and I would
be mortified to recieve a judging sheet that recommends entering my brew in
a *wine* competition.  Which leads to my second question.  How long does it
take at room (or UPS truck) temperatures for a beer to develop the sherry
flavor thing?"

Now back to the present

I have already answered my second question through experimentation.  It
takes about 4 weeks for the sherry flavor to be detectable.  Unfortunately,
I've also confirmed that I still have the oxidation problem.  I was leaning
towards HSA as a probable cause, but I've eliminated the suspected source of
the problem and I don't think  I'm  getting significant HSA.  

The simple fact is that I'm not really sure.  That's why I'd like to see an
explanation of how the sherry flavor compound is created.  Specifically
whether it is most likely to be produced by HSA or post-fermentation
oxidation.  I know that some infections can result in sherry flavors, but
I'm reasonably certain that's not the problem.  I could go through some
possible causes, but this post is already long enough.  If someone can point
me in one direction or the other (HSA or post-ferm), I'll re-post with some
possibilities.

So how about it Steve A, Al K, Dr. George, George D.P., Mort O'S. or anyone
else who'd like to chime in.  I'd be grateful for your input.

Cheers, 
Dave Williams
Newberry, Florida




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Date: Tue, 07 Jul 1998 21:44:21 -0400
From: Nathan Kanous <nlkanous at pharmacy.wisc.edu>
Subject: Can 'o worms / Line's Continental Pilsner

Alright, in discussing hop combinations, AlK mentions that dryhopping a
bohemian pilsner with Saaz hops was way off style.  Now, I've never ever
read anything that says you should dryhop a continental pilsner.  Not true
to style.  But you know what?  This guy named Dave Line wrote a book titled
Continental Pilsner.  In it, he recommends to dryhop every beer with Saaz
hops.  Why does he do this if it is not true to style?  Maybe I should have
been suspicious when he recommended dryhopping with pellets, eh?  I mean no
disrespect to Dave Line.  He surely knows more about beer than I do, but
his recommendation seemed out of whack with everything else.  What goes?

Nathan in Madison, WI


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Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 23:07:39 EDT
From: Stankau at aol.com
Subject: home brew work bench

I'm having to relocate my homebrewing from the kitchen to the garage. I plan
on building a 4 or 5 foot long combination work bench/homebrew bench. I plan
on using it for both homebrewing and storage of HB equipment. At present I'm
using an igloo for a mashton w/ 10 gal steel pot and propane burner. I'm
requesting advice on construction. (Also have two cats that have been banished
to the garage and must protect equipment from cat hair.)

Stan Kauchak
Albuquerque, NM


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Date: Tue, 07 Jul 1998 20:20:51 -0700
From: Bob Wilcox <bobw at sirius.com>
Subject: Gold- Thanks HBD

I am the proud owner of a Gold Ribbon from the Alameda County Fair for
the Light Lager.I wish to thank HBD for all the advise I have gotten
over the last 3 years. I brewed a Bohemian Pilsner using stuff I learned
from the posts on HBD. FWH with Saaz, I was going to do a no sparge but
did a mini 2 Gal batch sparge. Some of the comments were,Aroma - nice
hoppy, Taste- well balanced-Soft Malt Soft Hops. So that stuff can make
a differance. I used Weyermann 2 row Pilsen Malt and White Labs Pilsner
Lager Yeast without a starter. I'm not saying you dont need to make or
use a starter,we all know the benefits of pitching a big starter, but it
can be done. I also dont have any special equipment, Phils Floater
bottom in a 6 gal plastic pail, 8 gal enamel on steel Kettle. So you new
brewers and even you old guys dont be afraide to try something differant
it cant hurt you may be as suprised as I was with a Ribbon. 

Thanks Again HBD

Bob Wilcox
Long Barn Brewing
Long Barn & Alameda Ca.
p.s. I wish I had more than one bottle left



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Date: Tue, 07 Jul 98 22:51:15 -0400
From: Dave Humes <humesdg1 at earthlink.net>
Subject: Wild yeast

Greetings,

I made a Bavarian weiss 30 days ago that was my inagural brew on a brand
new system.  It was in the primary for a week at 68F, moved to secondary
for another week also at 68F, and then primed, kegged, and conditioned for
a final week at 68F dropping to 44F for serving.  This was by far the best
beer I had ever made.  I had battled with headless weizens for a year and
thought I had it beat this time.  The initial servings would pour a head
you could eat with a spoon like whipped cream.  It was everything that I
had hoped for.  That was last week.  

I started noticing a slight drop in the foam stability around the middle
of last week.  But it was till very good on July 4th.  As of today, it has
no head at all.  It is still very well carbonated as I'm sure some of you
remember me talking about keeping 27 PSI on the kegs to maintain 3.5
volumes of CO2.  Also, the body of the beer has thinned out noticably and
the FG has fallen some although not dramatically (1.014 to 1.012).  The
flavor has changed a little, but is not objectionable.   Mainly I've
noticed that it's now hard to pick up the hint of malt complexity that was
there in the beginning from using 8% Munich malt in the grist.  I took
care during the mash to avoid time spent in the 120F region, and I believe
this paid off with a beer that at least started off with a perfect head
and good body.

George DePiro and I discussed this earlier today and he suggests wild
yeast.  This sounds like a very plausible argument, but what little bit I
could find on wild yeast did not suggest such a rapid proteolytic
degradation.  This beer literaly went from fantastic on July 4th, to
headless and thin today.  I've got an AIPA fermenting now and it will be
interesting to see if it suffers a similar fate as my sanitation
procedures were the same.  Your suggestions will once again be very much
appreciated.

- --Dave

- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
Dave Humes <humesdg1 at earthlink.net>                  Dave Humes
- -----------------------------------------------------------



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Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 00:11:21 -0400
From: Jonathan Edwards <jdedward at us.ibm.com>
Subject: help me increase my efficiency

hey now,

i've been doing all grain 11 gallon batches for about 2 months now. my
efficiency has been pretty much around 70%..sometimes lower, sometimes as high
as 75%. i use a GOTT mash/lauter tun setup with a modified keg as a boiler.
sometimes i mash in the keg and transfer the grains to the lauter tun which is
equipped with a phils phalse bottom. i always mashout at 170F for 15 minutes. i
use sparge water that is typically 190F which i use a pump to get it to the
hlt. usually i use 1tsp of gypsum in the mash water and 2tsp gypsum and 1/4 tsp
of acid blend in the sparge water.  my sparges last from one hour to 1  1/2
hours. sometimes i batch sparge and sometimes i use the phils sparge arm. in
any case,  using the 190F sparge water generally gets the grain bed to about
165-170F. i don't have a ph meter yet and ph papers are generally worthless in
my experience but i usually sparge until i have 13 gallons then boil down to
12.5 and start adding hops. i usually end up with 11 gallons after 90 minutes
of boiling.

i'd really like to get higher efficiencies just to know that i can do it...but
i'm stumped as to where to improve my process. i'm hitting my dough in temps
fine...i've used klages, marris otter, and belgian pils and usually get the
same efficiency percantage.

can anyone offer me some help or advice? i'd appreciate it!

jonathan


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Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 00:05:56 EDT
From: AllDey at aol.com
Subject: 4th Annual 8 Seconds of Froth results

The winners list is posted on our High Plains Drafters web site at:

http://www.vcn.com/~bbriggs/drafters.html

also note, there is a link for results from the professional division in which
34 microbrews from the northern Colorado and Wyoming area were judged.

Congrats to Paul Claussen of NM for his BOS pils.


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Date: Wed, 08 Jul 1998 00:15:59 PDT
From: "Gregg Soh" <greggos at hotmail.com>
Subject: Eis ale? I now need to dilute it....

I have a question for the collective, and am wondering if anyone has got 
a solution to my problem with a frozen ale. Well, let's see, this is 
what happened. I crash cooled(obviously too much) and dryhopped my keg 
of pale ale and then finally(one week) transferred to another keg. I 
hadn't tasted the ale at the point. When I went about cleaning the empty 
keg, it was caked with ice! Went back to tasting the now 'finished' 
brew, it was too strong! Now I'm wondering if anyone has been successful 
in diluting his brew, without oxidizing it, as water will contain 
dissolved oxygen. I think it's impossible, but maybe someone knows a way 
to get around this. Any help would be great.

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com


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Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 15:22:32 +1000
From: James_E_Pearce at nag.national.com.au
Subject: Snot in my beer; hops and styles





From: James E Pearce at NAG on 08/07/98 03:22 PM

The last beer I made I ended up with long strings of green stuff after
chilling.  They were all over my copper coils.  The only thing I did
differently to normal was boil more vigorously with the lid covering half
the pot.  I used rehydrated Irish moss.

What was this?

*************************************************

On another note, AlK responded to someone's (I forget who) query on hop
combinations with a reference to hops and styles.  Although your attempt at
dry hopping with Saaz was not like a Bohemian pilsener, was it any good?

After all that's what I want to know.  Not being a judge, or even being
familiar with American competition styles, all I care about is if the
outcome is good (and repeatable).  That is, unless I'm trying to replicate
(or improve upon) something I've bought.


Cheers

James in Melbourne




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Date: Wed, 08 Jul 1998 00:49:40 -0700
From: Jeff Schroeder <jms at rahul.net>
Subject: Grist% / High Hops!

I saw this discussion of recipe formulation go by with little notice in
the HBD last week, and I'm always curious about little details like
this. It may seem a bit pedantic, but, hey, isn't that what the HBD is
for?  ;-)

Al Korzonas writes in response to a question about grist %:
>Michael writes:
>>In a percentage type recipe, such as;
>> 
>>        90% 2-row
>>        5% wheat
>>        5% cystral
>> 
>>Do you calculate the grist by the weight of the malt or by the points >>of
>>sugar that each malt contributes?

>Unless otherwise specified, recipes specify the percentages of the >grist
>by the weight of the malt.

See, now I would have assumed the opposite. If a recipe author is giving
the grist in percentages (and, presumably, a target O.G.) rather than
absolute weight of each grain, she recognizes that that is the most
accurate way to reproduce the recipe on another system with a different
efficiency. She should also recognize that different grains from
different malsters could have different extract potentials. Therefore,
it would be more accurate to specify the grain bill in terms of
percentages of extract from each grain, and let the brewer figure out
how much of each grain to use based on extract potentials and system
efficiency.

Anyway, that's what I would have assumed. The only recipes that I've
seen that specify grain bills in percentages are those published in the
_Stout_ book in the style series, and Dr. Lewis does mean percentage of
extract. But, then, Dr. Lewis does state that, so it doesn't contradict
Al's answer.

I'm curious if I've missed something here. Is it a de facto homebrewing
standard that grist percentages refer to percent of grain weight unless
specified otherwise?

=====

Dan Morely seeks advice about his hops:
>My hop plants are doing very well. The are planted on the south side of >my
>house and have already grown the 20 feet up the side of my house. I can
>think of 3 options now:

>1)Just let them grown and hang where they may.
>2)Clip the tips of the shoots and force them to branch out
>3)Try to train them horizontaly along new string. (I would guess that I
>would have to climb up there every couple of days to wrap them around >the
>string, this being a PITA)

Last year (the first year for my hops) I did number 1. When the hops
reached the top of the string, they started to hang down about 3-6 feet
in a big clump. That clump was were the bulk of the cones were produced,
so it didn't seem to affect the health of the plant.

I'm not sure why you would consider number 2. If you did produce
multiple new shoots, you're still faced with the problem of where to
train them, especially if they form near the top. Curiously, the shoots
on my plants did start branching on their own when they reached the top.

I'm jealous that your plants are that tall already. The best of mine are
at 10 feet right now and climbing very slowly. Our cold, wet spring in
California didn't help things, I imagine.

 - Jeff
- -- 
Jeff Schroeder
San Jose, CA
jms at rahul.net



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Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 07:08:56 -0400
From: "Marc Battreall" <batman at terranova.net>
Subject: Tap Handles & CO2 Tanks

Hello All,
Just recently purchased some new tap handles and the installation kit for an
old refrigerator I keep in my home brewery/"new taproom". They came as a kit
from Brewer's Resource (not affiliated) and seemed like a pretty good price
at just over $100 for 2 handle set ups, hardware, and a drip tray. The
installation was a breeze and the only tools I needed to purchase was a 1
1/8" metal hole cutter. Anyway, they are working great and make a fine
addition to my set up. I have one minor question though; There is a small
ring around the outer portion of the valve mechanism itself that seems to be
a lock ring of some sort and there is a spanner wrench that was included
with the kit to tighten/loosen it. Is there something more to this ring
other than just being used to secure the handle to the shaft? Is this maybe
an adjustment of some sort? I simply snugged it down when installing and
like I said before it seems to be working fine. I assume that this is just a
way to disassemble the shaft from the mount to clean it easily.

Also, I put a CO2 tank and regulator in the refrigerator along with the
Corny kegs and was wondering something. I know that the tank's pressure
reading changes with temperature same as with scuba tanks and the like but
the volume does not. So, do I adjust the output pressure at ambient
temperature and leave it alone or re-adjust it after placing it in the
refrigerator and allowing ample time for the temperature to adjust?

Anyway, any answers will be appreciated.

Thanks,

Marc

=======================
Captain Marc Battreall
Backcountry Brewhouse
Islamorada, Florida
batman at terranova.net
captainbrew at hotmail.com



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Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 08:10:42 -0400
From: WALT.CROWDER at gsnetworks.gensig.com
Subject: Water question

Hello collective,

    This is my first post after lurking for a couple of years.  I recently moved
to a new home that has a well.  My previous house had public water and my beer
was always fine.  I haven't brewed yet :(   I'm still getting my brewery
together.  My water goes through a purifier and softener.  I will be getting a
basic water test from the people contracted to take care of the softener.  I
wondering should I just brew and see how the beer is, or is there a general rule
to follow with softened water.  I have mostly brewed partial mashes but am now
getting the equipment for all grain.  I have done one all grain and was quite
happy with the result.  Many thanks for any replys.  I'd like to add my voice to
the chorus "I sure have learned a lot for the HBD"


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Date: 	Wed, 8 Jul 1998 08:43:36 -0400 
From: Alan Monaghan <AlanM at GardnerWeb.com>
Subject: RE: Wing Cappers/Rubber Bottoms/Oud Bruin/Webmasters


I too deal with web sites and their programming issues. I am going a
different way with the recipes on the web. I have found that I can use
Include files with a  standard outline of a recipe and make a good look
and feel but I am not using a database but rather using the search
engine to do all of the work. That way, I just produce the recipe using
a standard form, post it and poof, there it is. The user can search on
any or all things with in the page and I am also using the category item
in the Meta section to fine tune the search for styles and notes. Note:
this is NT w/ IIS v4.0 and Index server v2.0 along with the old virtual
notepad. 

As a question, I have just gotten into my 1st kegging unit. I am
starting with 30psi for a day or two and then kicking it down to 10psi
for the pours. My only problem is the CO2 doesn't stay in the beer for
long periods of time. By the 10 to 15 minute mark, I have nothing
bubbling up from the bottom of the glass. What can I do to try to
correct this? I have reset the pressure to 30psi this morning and I was
going to try the beer again tonight to see. My real problem is there is
a competition this coming Aug in Cincinnati and I don't have the
experience with kegging to get that part right and I am thinking of
letting the yeast do the work in the keg instead of the CO2.

Thanks for such nice info people. I love to read this in the morning
with my 1st coffee. It make work a whole lot better.


Men are like gas: they take up the space available.

Alan G. Monaghan
Gardner Publications, Inc.
AlanM at Gardnerweb.com <mailto:AlanM at Gardnerweb.com> 
http://bullwinkle.gardnerweb.com <http://bullwinkle.gardnerweb.com> 




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Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 09:11:16 -0700
From: George_De_Piro at berlex.com
Subject: More crystal malt / slaked lime additions

     Hi all,
     
     Al K. points out that I said that crystal malt contains lots of 
     melanoidins, which helps increase the perception of sweetness, etc.
     
     While there are melanoidins in crystal malt, what I was thinking was 
     "caramel flavors," which are not caused by melanoidins.  Thanks for 
     pointing out the mistake, Al.  Mr. Brain and Mr. Fingers weren't 
     communicating well at that time...
     
     For what it's worth, I liked Mort's post about crystal malts best of 
     all.  He gave some solid info supporting the notion that crystal malts 
     are less fermentable than paler malts, despite what happens in the 
     mash tun.
     
     Another note:  Mort's post points out that saccharification is not 
     complete during the production of crystal malt (with the endosperm 
     intact, how can it be?).  I have always wondered about this, with 
     regards to steeping grains in extract batches.  It would seem to me 
     that you would get starch into the wort steeping any type of grain.
     
     Last week I brewed my first extract batch in 4 years (I am teaching a 
     beer appreciation class and thought they would find it interesting to 
     actually brew).  The sub-boiling wort was quite clear until after I 
     steeped the Paul's Crystal malt (~40L).  What a murky mess that made!  
     I unfortunately didn't have my iodine with me, but my guess was that 
     we had introduced a decent amount of starch into the wort.
     
     I'm quite curious to see and taste this batch.  Perhaps the amount of 
     starch introduced by steeping crystal malt is not too great, and the 
     beer will survive it (that would make sense; people have been steeping 
     crystal malts for decades, sometimes producing excellent beer).
     
     As a side note, the pleasure of being able to brew on a weekday 
     evening was amazing!  3 hours, start to finish (with much question and 
     answer from the 10 other people).  Extract brewing is definitely the 
     way to go if you lack time, but feel the urge to make some beer.
     -------------------------------------
     Steve asks about using slaked lime (calcium hydroxide, Ca(OH)2) to 
     reduce the alkalinity of his water.
     
     1 Ca(OH)2 reacts with 1 calcium bicarbonate (Ca(HCO3)2, soluble) to 
     form  2 calcium carbonate (2 CaCO3, insoluble) and 2 water (2 H2O).  
     The amount of Ca(OH)2 added obviously depends on the amount of 
     bicarbonate in the water.  It won't do the mash (or you) very much 
     good to have an excess of Ca(OH)2 (it will raise the mash pH, and the 
     LD50 in rates is ~7g/kg; not super toxic, but not healthful).  This is 
     what makes the home use of this technique a bit tricky.
     
     Of course, you could use acid to neutralize any excess Ca(OH)2 (using 
     pH as your guide), but that would be too much like playing chemistry 
     rather than brewing.  You still have to deal with separating the 
     treated water from the precipitated calcium carbonate, too.
     
     I wouldn't bother with it.  When making pale beers in my crappy tap 
     water, I simply dilute it with distilled or reverse osmosis (RO) 
     water.  Works every time, and I can achieve a Pilzn-like hop character 
     because all of the ions get diluted this way.  It adds about $6 to the 
     cost of a batch.  This is much cheaper than the potential damage I 
     could do to myself, my property, and the large, furry, lunk-headed 
     black Lab that would inevitably get underfoot while playing with and 
     storing caustic calcium hydroxide.
     
     Have fun!
     
     George De Piro  (Nyack, NY; where the tap water literally stinks)


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Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 09:21:15 -0400
From: Dave Hinrichs <dhinrichs at quannon.com>
Subject: Fridge cycling (fridge)

> "AllDey" Paul asked about his fridge that runs too much, and 
>doesn't cool properly.


Forrest Duddles - FridgeGuy Responded
> Keep in mind when shopping for a used fridge that one more than 
>10 years old will probably cost enough more in energy cost to pay 
>monthly payments on a new fridge. 

Also don't forget to contact your local utility to see if they have rebates
for replacing old fridges and incentives for purchasing a high efficiency
replacement. Many also will come and take your old fridge away for
recycling, for free.

***************************************************************
* Dave Hinrichs                 E-Mail: dhinrichs at quannon.com *
* Quannon CAD Systems, Inc.             Voice: (612) 935-3367 *
* 6101 Baker Road, Suite 204              FAX: (612) 935-0409 *
* Minnetonka, MN 55345                    BBS: (612) 935-8465 *
*                http://www.quannon.com/                      *
***************************************************************



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Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 06:36:06 -0700 (PDT)
From: Fred Waltman <waltman at netcom.com>
Subject: Extract Brix Ratings


JPullum askes about Alexanders extract:

All of the Alexanders extracts are 80 brix according to the info sheet I
have from them.

Fred Waltman
Culver City Home Brewing Supply (Los Angeles area)
fred at brewsupply.com   *or*   waltman at netcom.com
http://www.brewsupply.com
"You can make better beer than you can buy."




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Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 09:44:32 -0400
From: dbgrowler at juno.com
Subject: The question is:  Does the pumpkin contribute anything other 

John asks about punkins. Here's what I've learned from my annual 'never
again'  with the stuff:
Probably the main contribution is _color_ , pumpkins being mostly water &
fiber. Contribution to OG is minimal, and can be pretty much ignored (I
guesstimate that the 2 - 6" pie pumpkins I used most recently added ~
 .004 to my 5 gal. batch). They do contribute a very subtle flavor, and
slight acidic bite (at least at my house). If the beer is really spicy,
you'd never miss it if it was left out, though the color is very
appealing.

Mike Bardallis
Allen Park, MI

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]


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Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 08:55:24 -0500
From: "Jeffrey M. Kenton" <jkenton at iastate.edu>
Subject: Beer Currency and Exchange Rate

Howdy folks. My dad asked me a while ago about putting a roof on our
family's new summer cottage. I don't want to charge my dad anything for
helping because he is going to be feeding me and lodging me, but for those
instances where I didn't want to be paid in money, but would accept
something in return, I had two questions.

1. Is there a system of beer currency? It seems logical that there should
be one. Most of the classic beer producing countries have long-standing
forms of currency. For example, a bottle of Samichlaus 1996 would be worth
a given amount of money, but how much would that be in terms of work, time,
etc.

2. Is there an exchange rate for beer? For example, if I wanted a bottle of
New Glarus' Belgian Red from 1997 (Gold at GABF), but none was available,
how many bottles of, say, Pilsener Urquell would that be worth?

Here is my suggestion:
For manual labor, by the half-day (assuming food is included): One case of
any commercially produced Macrobrew (Bud, Miller, Coors, Leinies).

For clerical labor, by the full-day (assuming food is included): One case
of microbrewed beer, or four growlers of brewpub beer.

For advice (regardless of the hour): One bottle of macrobrew beer per hour.

For advice that you would actually use yourself: One bottle of microbrew
beer per hour.

Remember, first and foremost, that I am not advocating toiling long and
hard in the sun to just be paid two cases of Bud plus food. This is
intended as a way to politely accept payment for something that you would
have done for nothing. That is, the person requesting your help expects you
to let him pay you, but you don't want money. In other words, this is just
for fun.

This is one of those things that isn't very important in the grander scheme
of things, but if you want to pursue it, I would be happy to discuss it
offline at brewer at iastate.edu.

I love the HBD

Jeff

Jeffrey M. Kenton    jkenton at iastate.edu
Ames, Iowa           brewer at iastate.edu




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---