HOMEBREW Digest #2861 Wed 28 October 1998

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		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com

  Re: hbd # 2859, 10/26/98 ("Fred M. Scheer")
  Re: Brown Malt (Mike Uchima)
  re: RIMS - Pump clogging potential/Manifold (John_E_Schnupp)
  FWH, hbd 2860, discussion....... ("Fred M. Scheer")
  Cleaning dip tubes (Paul Edwards)
  re: sanitizing the HERMS setup (RobertJ)
  pH papers - my experiment ("Frederick L. Pauly")
  Thomas Fawcett & Sons Malt/s (LEAVITDG)
  Cereal Mash ("Matthew J. Harper")
  Re; Canning wort for starters ("Matthew J. Harper")
  IBU calculations ("Czerpak, Pete")
  Polarware Thermometers (Brandon Brown)
  re: Canning Wort for Starters (Michael A. Owings)
  in defense of Hank's (Vachom)
  Gott thermometer installation (LaBorde, Ronald)
  Wort Stability ("Phil Barker")
  HOPS BOPS 98 (nancy george)
  One Gallon Oak Barrel (Tim Anderson)
  A toast! (Dave Sapsis)
  Bottle or Keg it? (Jonathan Nail)
  re: HERMS Sanitation (Ronald Babcock)
  FWH Experience ("Houseman, David L")
  Koelsch Yeast for Fake Lagers (Ken Schwartz)
  Re: pH papers (Jeremy Bergsman)
  FW: Dusseldorf & altbier (Kim)
  Indoor all-grain full boil ("Andrew Avis")
  Dispensing Kegged Beer (Thomas S Barnett)
  Rusty freezers, clogged pumps and FWH utilization (Paul Shick)
  Canning wort for starters ("Steve")
  re: Prime Tabs, Freezer Repair (Mark Tumarkin)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 20:48:41 -0700 From: "Fred M. Scheer" <maltster at marsweb.com> Subject: Re: hbd # 2859, 10/26/98 Fred M. Scheer wrote: > > Date: Fri, 23 Oct 98 22:53:12 PDT > From: "George De Piro" <gdepiro at fcc.net> WROTE: > Subject: Munich malt / Brewing all-grain vs. extract > The maltsters claim that they seek out this barley because > it yields higher levels of amino acids during malting, which are then > transformed into melanoidins in the kiln. I have wondered (out loud > in this forum)if this is really necessary: there should be more than > enough amino acids present in a barley with 10% protein to yield a plethora of > melanoidins upon kilning. > > George, you're right, it is not necessary to have a high Protein malt > ( six row or two row) to make a high quality MUNICH Malt. > A 2 rowed barley with 11 - 11.5% total protein has enough amino > acids avaialable for the melanoidine reaction. > I just purchased 25,000 bushels of 2 - row Harrington with total protein > ranging in 10.7 - 11.5%. I will use that barley also to make MUNICH Malt. > > George wrote:Could there be something to the German maltster's > desire for higher protein barley, or is it just differences in > the kilning methods? Hmmm... > > George, HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM...German Maltster do not desire higher protein > malt to make specialtys - one of the reasons is that they have Malt > with higher Protein ( ranging > 11.5%). The lower Protein malt's (10.5 - 10.7) > is used in the production of Pilsener Malt and others. > Also, there is a difference in the kilning process. Temperatures and time > will dictate the outcome of the malt, and sometimes I'm questioning > (now even loud on this excellent forum)if they don't make malt (specialty > malt) extra for export purposes; as they do with Export beer preparation???. > > George wrote: I say that you can use malt from any country > you want in any beer you want. This is America, damn it, a great melting > pot! > > George, you said it............................................... Fred M. Scheer Malt Montana Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 23:00:53 -0600 From: Mike Uchima <uchima at pobox.com> Subject: Re: Brown Malt Darrell asks: > > The next day I added this 4 lb of brown malt to 4lb of Mairs Otter Pale malt, > along with 1 lb flaked barley, and about 1/3 cup of Black Patent. Protein > rest (a la Miller), conversion for 2 hours, etc.... > The pH was much more acidic than I'd expected...which led me to believe that > I may have made the mistake of using a malt that was highly modified....ie > that I used too much of it. By "highly modified", I assume you actually meant "dark"... ("Highly modified" means something else.) If this is anything like the Brown Malt I've used, using it for 40% (give or take) of your grist is going to result in a very strong roasted coffee character. I've never used it for more than about 30%... > Is this a malt that should be used like crystal, in which case 1 lb or so > would be the upper limit? IMO, you can use a lot more than a pound... but 4 pounds might be a *little* on the high side. > The mash had a wonderful aroma.... Brown Malt is great... especially in Porters and Stouts. - -- == Mike Uchima == uchima at pobox.com == Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 22:09:26 -0800 From: John_E_Schnupp at amat.com Subject: re: RIMS - Pump clogging potential/Manifold Randy asks, >Also concerning the copper manifold. Seems like the H shaped >manifold using 1/2" copper pipe and tees is the most popular >design. My question here is instead of soldering the copper >together could I just use flare fittings. This could save me some >money on soldering equipment. Flair or compression fittings should work fine but would be on the expensive side. Try this instead, solder your manifold together and then take it apart by heating the joints to get the solder to flow again and then pull the connections apart with a pliers (or other similar device). Then used sandpaper to smooth the solder until you can force the pieces together with a good friction fit. If it is for the return manifold the very slight leak won't be a problem and if it is for the pickup manifold in the mash a slight leak there won't matter either. John Schnupp, N3CNL Colchester, VT 95 XLH 1200 Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 23:27:43 -0700 From: "Fred M. Scheer" <maltster at marsweb.com> Subject: FWH, hbd 2860, discussion....... RE; FWH While I was brewing in Europe, we made some test's with FWH. To make a long story short, we observed that with increasing IBU's ( above 20 ) the Hop Aroma got lost as IBU's increased. Below 20 IBU, we got more Hop aroma as IBU's decreased. The UV-spectrophotometric analysis (at 275 nm) where correlated to the taste panel results, and we had some very close correlations. The tests where made with German and Czech hops. We concluded that dry hoping was a better way of getting a Hop aroma in a beer with more than 20 IBU's; and as Homebrewers beers (most of the one I taste) have that, I recommend dry hoping. By the way, I would like all you Brewers to know that I really enjoy the postings very much; and I learn a lot. Txs Fred M. Scheer Malt Montana Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 07:09:17 -0500 (EST) From: Paul Edwards <pedwards at iquest.net> Subject: Cleaning dip tubes "dead-eye" renner wrote: >I've found that while the .22 cal. brush works OK, a much more thorough >way is to use the .22 bullet itself. Just line up the dip tube *exactly* >with the barrel of a .22 rifle (I suppose a pistol would work), clamp in >place and fire off a round. Be sure of what's down range (i.e., no >240v GFIs, large glass carboys, CO2 tank necks or fruit flies). At 1200 >fps, that little slug will scour out all residual beer sludge! Of >course, there may be a bit of deposited lead, but it'll be sterile! My method is similar, but here in Indiana we can buy copper-jacketed .22's, so lead build-up is not a problem. For those of you forced to use regular rounds, a tincture of coriander will remove the lead. - --Paul E. Thankfully waaay down range of Ann Arbor Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 07:46:42 -0500 From: RobertJ <pbsys at pbsbeer.com> Subject: re: sanitizing the HERMS setup Peter.Perez at smed.com wrote I have a question for the HERMS users. How do you sanitize the inside of your copper coil heat exchanger before you start pumping wort thru it? PBS HERMS does not have to be sanitized. The coil is submerged in water that is reaching from 170 to 185F which, I believe, would be pastuerizing temp. range. In addition, the wort will be boiled after going through the coil. We recomend the coil be back flashed after use with clean water and allowed to dry. Should you still be concerned you could, 1. boil water in the HLT, 2. run B-Brite (to clean) and iodophor through it Bob Precision Brewing Systems URL http://www.pbsbeer.com Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 08:03:48 -0500 From: "Frederick L. Pauly" <flp2m at avery.med.virginia.edu> Subject: pH papers - my experiment Just my 2 cents worth on the pH paper thread. I tried many types of papers and also a few cheap ($100) meters and could not get comparable readings from any off them. My experiment with papers was to buy some pH 5.0 buffer and test all the strips I had. The only paper that gave me an accurate reading was the Phil Frank papers by Fil-Chem. Now this is only one experiment but it was good enough for me. You can find them at Fil-Chem at juno.com and I think there might be some info about them on the web. Rick Pauly Charlottesville,Va Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 08:31:42 -0500 (EST) From: LEAVITDG at SPLAVA.CC.PLATTSBURGH.EDU Subject: Thomas Fawcett & Sons Malt/s Date sent: 27-OCT-1998 08:19:50 I recently posted regarding a brown malt (British, I believe) and THOMASM at aol.com advised me NOT to perform a protein rest in that I may inadvertently break down medium length proteins. Thankyou Tom. Now, how does one understand the "INdex of Modification" that Fawcett publishes? ie, what is low and what is high? For ex, Malt index of modification also elsewhere Maris Otter 38-42 38.5 Halcyon 38-42 39.5 Pipkin 38-42 40.0 Lager 38-42 Wheat 32-35 35.0 Oat 30-33 My question has to do with how to know what is and what is not modified... to what extent...? Is it the case that if there is NO number for the index of modification, then it is NOT modified, and therefore could use the protein rest? ...Darrell _/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/ _/ _/Darrell Leavitt _/ _/INternet: leavitdg at splava.cc.plattsburgh.edu _/ _/AMpr.net: n2ixl at amgate.net.plattsburgh.edu _/ _/AX25 : n2ixl at kd2aj.#nny.ny.usa _/ _/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/ Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 08:41:04 -0500 From: "Matthew J. Harper" <matth at progress.com> Subject: Cereal Mash In today's Digest Jeff Renner (A little less than 1/2 a country away) discusses using a cereal mash on coarse corn meal for hiS CAP. The procedure he describes *sounds* like a decoction to me. Am I missing something, or is it just another name since it's not (so much...) malt that gets boiled? -Matth Matthew J. Harper Principal Software Engineer Progress Software Corp. Nashua, New Hampshire matth at progress.com Sometimes you're the windshield - Sometimes you're the bug Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 08:46:06 -0500 From: "Matthew J. Harper" <matth at progress.com> Subject: Re; Canning wort for starters Here comes the botulism thread again!!!!!!!!!! <grin> Andrew Lynch asks if it is OK to pre-can wort for use in making starters... Andrew, sure its OK. TO do it By The Book you should use a pressure canner due to the acidity levels of the wort being canned and potential for botulism type ickies in the resulting product. However, many people, myself included, use the more traditional preserve method with longer than typical boils. I also only make small batches of canned wort up at a time to minimize my exposure to The Big B. Still others I know keep wort in well sanitized jars in the fridge, making a couple each batch. Then they use the dreggs from the last batch as the starter base in the next batch. It does make creating and stepping up starters a snap though! 5 minute turn around time, can't beat that! -Matth Matthew J. Harper Principal Software Engineer Progress Software Corp. Nashua, New Hampshire matth at progress.com Sometimes you're the windshield - Sometimes you're the bug Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 08:55:18 -0500 From: "Czerpak, Pete" <Pete.Czerpak at siigroup.com> Subject: IBU calculations When using the various software packages for recipe formulation, usually there is a choice for hops calculation method. I was wondering the inherent differences between the methods (Tinseth and Rager) and why they yield vastly different number in terms of IBUs. For my recipe, they yielded values of about 25 and 48 or so. When books are written about styles, is there a given standard method that is used?? For example in Daniels book or Papazians?? Thanks, Pete Czerpak pete.czerpak at siigroup.com Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 07:04:09 -0800 (PST) From: Brandon Brown <brandonbrown at yahoo.com> Subject: Polarware Thermometers I recently bought a Polarware 40qt mashtun/lautertun combo with a false bottom and temp gauge. After my first three beers had some problems, I checked out all of my equipment and determined that the gauge was off by at least 9 degrees (F). I bought three digital thermometers (for different stages of the all-grain process) and returned the Polarware to the store and got a new one. The new gauge actually will read past boiling, but the gauge is again off, and almost to the same amount the first one was. Is there some adjustment for the gauge I need to make? I don't see a screw for adjusting it anywhere on the gauge. Has anyone had similar luck with these gauges? I'm in Chicago so the maximum correction value for altitude would be 1 degree, but these tempatures I'm measuring are all for the mashing, not for boiling. Any ideas? Brandon == Brandon Brown (773)251-5353 Director of Development Fax:(773)442-0131 Protech Solutions Inc. bbrown at protechinc.net _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free at yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 15:20:56 GMT From: mikey at swampgas.com (Michael A. Owings) Subject: re: Canning Wort for Starters > ... I fill the fermenters, and boiling bath can it in quart jars. Bet you'll get a lot of responses to this one. Basically there are two camps on canning wort: One side claims that boiling water bath canning of wort poses a small but deadly risk of botulism -- thus you should always pressure can. The other side claims that while a boiling water bath may not kill botulism spores (which it won't) wort is a sufficiently hostile medium to discourage spores from "hatching" (or whatever the correct term is). Try searching the archives at http://www.hbd.org. You should find plenty of arguments on both sides, as this issue pops up from time to time on the hbd. Personally, I pressure can wort. *********************** Lord grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change. The courage to change the things I can. *** And the wisdom to hide the bodies of the people I had to kill because they pissed me off *** Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 09:23:17 -0600 From: Vachom <MVachow at newman.k12.la.us> Subject: in defense of Hank's In #2860 Hans lights up Henry Weinhard's (insert color here) and amber ale in general as a cross-over beer for the masses. Well, I agree. Lots of micros make the ubiquitous flagship "golden" and "amber" as a way to tap into the massive light lager market; it's pretty much an economic necessity. But, I have to stick up for Hank's in this respect: Stroh's, the people who brew Hank's, saw a market niche and capitalized on it. Hans recalls shelling out $3.50 for a 12 of Hank's some years ago while attending college in California. Let us picture the young college student and pals standing before the beer case: Bud, MGD, Coors--$3.00 a six; Deschutes, Anchor, Redhook, Oregon Brewing--$7.00 a six; and then, Henry Weinhard's, on sale for $3.50 a 12!-- probably goes for about the same a six back in Portland, but the brewery's trying to gain a share in the California "designer" beer market by flooding it with a bargain basement priced product. Of course, they go for the Hank's! This is the key to the Weinhard brand success. The clever marketers at Stroh's recognized that micros were (still are) WAY overpriced, and that there was a huge customer base out there--particularly in the micro-swamped Northwest-- who would be willing to buy a product of lesser quality than the best micros (and that there were a bunch of overpriced micros out there that weren't much better than Hank's) but more flavorful than the increasingly less flavorful trend of draft/ice/dry beer. I suspect they also realized that the advent of micro breweries has created a new kind of consumer--the person whose beer choice depends on the occasion. This more discerning consumer ponies up for the Deschutes or the Catamount for himself and for special occasions, but when it's a picnic for 20, he loads the coolers full of Henry Weinhard--palatable to himself but not going to freak out his Bud-swillin' friends, and, most importantly, not going to send him to the poor house. Mike New Orleans, LA Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 09:26:20 -0600 From: rlabor at lsumc.edu (LaBorde, Ronald) Subject: Gott thermometer installation >>> From: Peter.Perez at smed.com Has anyone installed a dial thermometer on their Gott mash tun? Where did ya get the therm from and how did you install it? Thanks, Pete <<< Yes, and it took me a while to get it all together. I posted it to the HBD earlier, you must have missed it. Anyone has a good chance to find an answer to a common question if they try a search of the HBD archives first. Here is the post: I got it all together and it works well. Purchased two 1/2 inch NPT female to 1/4 inch NPT female brass fittings, and one 1/4 inch male nipple. Drilled a hole through the Igloo side to accept the small diameter of the 1/4 inch female end of the fittings, used a rubber hose washer on the inside fitting, and teflon tape on the male threaded nipple. The pieces all fit together nice, and I snug it all up with wrenches (gently here, don't want to crush the Igloo). The Ashcroft thermometer with 1/2 inch NPT threads, just screws onto the outside fitting. Ron Ronald La Borde - Metairie, Louisiana - rlabor at lsumc.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 09:39:20 -0600 From: "Phil Barker" <pbarker at earthlink.net> Subject: Wort Stability A couple of whole grain batches ago I collected two quart jars of cooled wort for later use in yeast starters. My question is: does the wort degrade over time? It has been stored in two sterile mason jars at 40 degrees F. Thanks, Phil Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 10:57:46 -0500 From: nancy george <homsweet at voicenet.com> Subject: HOPS BOPS 98 The Homebrewers of Philadelphia and Suburbs would like to invite you to enter and/or judge the HOPS BOPS 1998. By having a relatively freeform competition, we are in no way throwing stones at the formal judging process, style guidelines or all the dedication, knowledge and hard work that judges do to further the craft of brewing. We just want to have fun. HOPS BOPS 1998--Homebrewers of Philadelphia and Suburbs/Best of Philadelphia and Suburbs Homebrew Competition November 15, 1998 at Red Bell Brewing Company, 31st & Jefferson Sts. Philadelphia PA. Tired of the "Style Nazis" goose stepping across your score sheets? Do you feel that the need to pigeonhole beer into a predetermined parameter stifles the creativity of your brewing process? Have you brewed a beautiful Dry Stout that you dry hopped, have all your friends say, "This is the best beer you ever brewed-- it's a winner!" -only to be shot down by the judges because it's "not appropriate to style"? If you've noticed you either have to choose between brewing to compete or brewing to be creative and all of this has turned you off from entering homebrew competitions, then this year's HOPS BOPS Homebrew Competition is for YOU! So send in your Wheat IPA's, your Rye Pilsners, your dry hopped Octoberfests. We promise the criteria for this competition will be- Is it clean?, Is it good?, Is it well balanced?--Beer style be damned! The only caveat is- if your beer does resemble a classic style, please explain in a few words why your beer is not that style. (Example: It's a dry stout, but I dry hopped it.). (Classic styles are still welcome, within the criteria.)(Or if it is a classic style, please tell us.) So the gloves are off, restrictions are off- and may the best beer win! Entry Categories are divided by ale or lager, other or none of the above (wheat yeasts for example), cider & mead. The subcategories of ale and lager are light, amber, dark or strong (above 1055 O.G.). 1. Each entry will be made with two (2) brown or green bottles, 12 to 16 ounces, free of labels, with plain or blackened crown caps. No raised lettering/symbols on the bottles, no porcelain caps. Entries are $5 for the first entry, $3 for additional entries. There is a $5 surcharge at the discretion of the organizer for late entries. Checks should be made payable to 'HOPS'. 2. All entries must be received by November 11,1998. Ship/drop off entries at Home Sweet Homebrew, 2008 Sansom St. Phila. PA 19103. (Anyone else who wishes to act as a drop off may do so, provided entries are delivered to the above address by the cut off date.) 3. For returned score sheets, entry must include SASE. All other score sheets may be picked up at Home Sweet Homebrew after the competition. 4. Competition open to all homebrewers. Beers produced in a commercial establishment will not be accepted. 5. Each brewer is limited to one entry per subcategory. 6. All entries become the property of HOPS. 7. Prizes not awarded at the competition may be picked up at Home Sweet Homebrew, or by other arrangements. Any added expense of shipping the prizes is the responsibility of the contest winner. HOPS BOPS will also be holding a benefit raffle in memory of Mark Johnston, a local National BJCP judge. Mark was tragically killed in an automobile accident last summer. We will be donating the proceeds from the raffle tickets to his wife and family in his memory. For all those who had the opportunity to know Mark or to judge with him, his loss leaves a void amongst our community of homebrewers. His wry wit, good humor and exurburance for the hobby always made him a welcome addition to any competition. Raffle tickets may also be purchased by mail or phone for those wishing to help get his family through this horrible loss. For further information or to register as a judge, please call Home Sweet Homebrew at 215-569-9469, or e-mail homsweet at voicenet.com. Also, info can be accessed at the HOPS website:http://www.netaxs.com/~shady/hops/archives/events/199811.html Nancy & George HomeSweet Homebrew 2008 Sansom St. Phila PA 19103 USA 215-569-9469 215-569-4633 (fax) homsweet at voicenet.com Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 07:55:24 -0800 (PST) From: Tim Anderson <timator at yahoo.com> Subject: One Gallon Oak Barrel I've gotten some email enquiries since I mentioned my one gallon oak barrel in an earlier post on a different subject. In case others are interested: My wife got the barrel for me for Christmas last year (damn I love that woman!). She bought it at a local homebrew and winemaking shop. It is the cutest thing. Made exactly like a big barrel (big thick staves and heavy duty metal bands) but on a small scale. It's made with American oak. So far, the oakiness is pretty intense, and in a one gallon vessel, the surface-area-to-volume ratio is pretty high, so I just use it for a few days to a week at a time. What I do is put one gallon of a five gallon batch in the barrel for the secondary ferment, with an airlock in place of the bung, or let it condition with the bung in before kegging. Even with just one fifth of the batch on oak for a few days, the oak character is profound. We were gone for an extended period this year, and I filled it up with cheap white rum, which sat for about three months. What came out was amber colored and almost painfully oaky. I like it, my wife doesn't. Most of the time it sits with a sanitizing solution in it. If you get a new one, be sure to follow all the conditioning steps. At first it isn't even water-tight! By the way, the shop where she got it is F. H. Stenbart: http://www.pcez.com/~fh_stein/ in Portland OR. They carry a variety of sizes, up to some pretty big honkers. But I would guess with shipping, something local would make better sense. == Please ignore the advertisement below. Thank you. _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free at yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 08:02:54 -0800 From: Dave Sapsis <DAVE_SAPSIS at fire.ca.gov> Subject: A toast! Well, I was derided by an American Maltster for suggresting to use continental malts in continental style beers. (Fred, send me some malt, ;-)). And George dP is absolutely right (saying he likes to use some German Munich in English Ales) . My bad. Use what gets you there. I have no doubt that there are some real good things out there I have not seen. And I meant not to stifle creativity. To clarify my point: malt is a primary ingredient, thus constitutes a first order factor in the end product. If you are having trouble honing in on the flavors you are looking for, look at the first order factors before worrying about lesser, albeit interesting, things affecting beer flavor. Specifically, pay attention to the type, characteristics, and condition of the base malts. AlK also points out some confusion regarding my ascription of the word "toasty" to describe the influence of good Munich malt. He prefers "melanoidin". The problem is that the aromas and flavors in munich to which I speak are from melanoidins, but quite different than other melanoidin flavors/aromas (e.g, caramel, roasty, etc.). While I fully agree that toasty is not a perfect word, I do think it captures some of the essence of the aromas and flavors found in fests, bocks, and to a lesser extent, alts. Toasty, as in the aromas that come off a toaster as you heat bread. Certainly not the *same* but rather deeper, richer, with a note of sweetness to them. And Al is abolutely right, compare a colored beer like Becks dark to something made with a high proportion of Munich, and these characters will be very easily perceived. And if anybody comes up with a better descriptor, pass it on. peace. - --dave, sacramento Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 09:31:33 -0800 From: Jonathan Nail <jnail at dvdexpress.com> Subject: Bottle or Keg it? Greetings! Watching and waiting for that right moment when I should move my Spiced Maple Porter from secondary to its final home before consumption... but not sure which storage medium would be best. This is definitely a beer to be enjoyed around the holidays, rather robust and a little high in alcohol, and (hopefully) nicely spiced. I was thinking of bottling this one and letting it condition naturally, but then again I would love to keg it, force carb it and then bottle it and let it rest a bit more. This will give me the bottles I want (so I can share as gifts) but also a sediment free bottle, which is what I really want. But I am not certain what is the best way for the flavor of the beer. I guess I could keg it with priming sugar (real maple syrup), let it condition for a month or so and then draw off a bit to rid it of settled yeast and then counterpressure bottle. Or alternately I could buy a three gallon corny, keg three gallons and bottle the rest for natural conditioning and compare... but man... that is a little more expense than I was hoping for... Has anyone experienced the difference of force carbonating a strong ale, then bottling and letting it rest that way as compared to conditioning in the bottle with the lees for a long period of time? How do those who make the Barleywines and other heavy strong beers, or specialty ales that benefit from "laying down" do it? Do they condition naturally with the yeast present in the bottles or keg it and then transfer to bottle? Private responses welcomed. Thanks! Jonathan Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 11:45:34 -0700 From: Ronald Babcock <rbabcock at rmii.com> Subject: re: HERMS Sanitation Pete asked how does one go about sanitizing the inside of the heat exchange coil. When I get finished with the previous brew session I make a 2 gallon batch of Five Star - PBW to clean out the residual wort by recirculating and holding the temperature at 130 deg. At the beginning of brew day I sanitize the inside of the coil with Five Star - Star San by circulating it for about 5 min. I follow that by a rinse of water to purge the coil of any residual Star San. This produce would not typically be rinsed but the coil does not drain well. The Five Star products is what I prefer to use but any comparable product should work fine. - ----------------- On another note I just modified my system to include a PID controller and did the preliminary test this past weekend and was thrilled with the stability of the temperature in the MLT. After calibration it maintained the mash temperature +/- .2 deg for over a period of an hour with a big grain bill (28#). I'm sure that amount of grain helped dampen the fluctuation of temperature. I did not test out the ramp function on the controller, but when I set the temperature at the next rest the temperature increase was better than about 2.5 deg a min. I am wandering how well the 3-way valve will hold up under the consistent opening and closing of the valve to circulate thru and to bypass the heat exchanger. I guess time will tell. The next test batch will be a smaller grain bill at about 16# and will have to see if it does as well. Maybe I can figure how to set up the ramp function so I can control how long it takes to reach the next rest. Once I get more data and a suitable enclosure for the electronics I will put the info and pictures up on my web site. Cheers, Ron Ronald Babcock - rbabcock at rmii.com - Denver, CO Home of the Backyard Brewery at http://shell.rmi.net/~rbabcock/ Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 14:09:59 -0500 From: "Houseman, David L" <David.Houseman at unisys.com> Subject: FWH Experience Jeremy and Al have commented on FWHing. To add fuel to the fire, I'll relate that my exprience with FWH has been a great improvement in my all-grain German beer styles where hop flavor and aroma should be either not present or at very low levels. I've simply put the bittering hops in the kettle during the runoff. I typically don't try to get a leg up on boiling until I've at least nearly completed the runoff and determined the volume and OG of my wort which then get's adjusted with water as necessary to compensate for a 1.5 hour boil. I've found that there is a very slight hop flavor and aroma that adds a subtle complexity to Dunkels, Bocks, etc. without it being as assertive as it would if I'd done flavor/aroma additions for other styles. Bitterness seems to work out correctly for the styles, although I will calculate IBUs for the high end of the range for the style so I end up within the range. While I haven't read the German texts and have no facts to back up my assumptions or experiences, other than the beers do very well in competitions, I do find the simple matter of adding all the bittering hops to the kettle and letting the wort run in then boil gives an accurate and pleasing complexity to certain styles of beer. Besides, it's easy. Dave Houseman Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 12:24:45 -0700 From: Ken Schwartz <kenbob at elp.rr.com> Subject: Koelsch Yeast for Fake Lagers Randy Ricchi writes: "I was wondering if anyone has used it to brew lager-style beers such as pilsner, Octoberfest, Bock, etc., and if so, did you feel the yeast made a good pseudo-lager?" I just did my annual Oktoberale using White Labs' version of this yeast. I entered it in our club's Oktoberfest comp and one of five judges noted some slight fruitiness. I have to admit it seemed to throw a bit of fruit at first but it's subtle and it seems to have subdued since then. It is otherwise pretty clean and malty so I'd say it was at least somewhat successful at making a fake lager. I fermented at 65F; White Labs indicates this yeast craps out quickly below 62F so I didn't want to push it. Truth be told, I had much better luck (as for neutral flavor) with Danstar Nottingham dry yeast in a Bohemian Pilsner last spring, fermented at 60F. Scored around 42 in each of two separate tastings, with the judges not knowing it was made with ale yeast. I've also used Wyeast Eurpoean Ale (#1338?) in an OFest with pretty decent results. I'll probably try one of these two next time. See the article at the Brewing Techniques website for more on this: http://brewingtechniques.com/library/styles/1_2style.html - -- ***** Ken Schwartz El Paso, TX kenbob at elp.rr.com http://home.elp.rr.com/brewbeer Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 11:45:17 -0800 From: Jeremy Bergsman <jeremybb at leland.Stanford.EDU> Subject: Re: pH papers "Bayer, Mark A (Boeing)" <BayerMA at navair.navy.mil> asks > what would be helpful is if you have the calibration data, jeremy. then we > would all know how much and in which direction our ph papers suck. Well, that was several years ago and I don't know which papers I tested. I have just made up fresh .1M succinate buffer, which my just-calibrated Orion 710a pH meter with its combination probe says is pH 5.296 (significant figures joke). I have two of those multipaper strips here in the lab. When I dip them in the first thing I note is that none of the tabs looks exactly like the colors on the box. In each case, however, you can see that 2 of the 3 tabs are irrelevant as they are for determining other pH ranges. Unfortunately the one we are interested in in each case is supposed to be a brownish orange at pH 5.3 so any beer color is going to add to the difficulty in determining the true color. Anyway, I don't know if this is what the homebrew stores are selling, but I have here Sigma P4536 designed for pH 4.5-10, and colorphast 9588 for pH 5-10. IMO even with three overlapping papers these are too wide ranging for our purposes. The tab of interest changes from orange to red from 4.5 to 7 for the sigma, and from orange to purple over 5.0 to 8 for the colorphast. Now let's try to read these papers. Both of these are better than I remember for the ones I tested several years back, but still do not clearly indicate the pH. In each case you would probably assign the pH between the example given for 5.0 and that for 5.5, but I would guess much closer to 5.0, probably 5.1 for each. So these are off by .1 to .2 if wort color does not throw you off. The ones I suggest are not only easier to read with a clear solution, but also less subject to wort color trickery. Also they're much cheaper! I will retract the descriptor "suck," at least as far as these two are concerned. *************************************************** fridge at kalamazoo.net writes: > After reading my receptacle tester post this morning I > thought I sounded like I was picking on Jeremy. That > wasn't my intent, and I'm sorry if it sounded that way. I > used Jeremy's name to identify the source of information I > was referring to in my post. No sweat. I almost posted a "thank you" for picking up my dropped ball. You were absolutely right of course. - -- Jeremy Bergsman jeremybb at stanford.edu http://www-leland.stanford.edu/~jeremybb Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 14:02:55 -0600 From: Kim <kim at nconnect.net> Subject: FW: Dusseldorf & altbier Will be in Germany the middle of November and am wondering if anyone has suggestions on where to stay while in Dusseldorf, Berlin, Dresden, Leipzig and Munich? thanx. Kim Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 12:02:17 -0500 From: "Andrew Avis" <Andrew.Avis.aavis at nt.com> Subject: Indoor all-grain full boil Greenman has an electric stove and would like to get into all-grain brewing. I brewed for 1.5 years on a gas and then electric stove top by splitting boils between two 16 qt SS pots ($20 each at most department stores). It means some juggling, and it takes forever (especially on the electric) to bring ~3 gals per pot to a boil, but it works and is probably safer than propane cookers in the basement. You may want to protect the stove top with some flashing or foil, as the heat is more intense than with regular cooking. Best of luck, Drew in Calgary Andrew Avis Technical Writer, Nortel Terminals Documentation ESN 775-7393 Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 14:47:19 -0600 (CST) From: Thomas S Barnett <barnets at mail.auburn.edu> Subject: Dispensing Kegged Beer Hello all, I have recently purchased the necessary equipment for kegging my beer using the 5 gallon Cornelius Kegs. I drilled a 1 in. diameter hole in my fridge and attached a faucet/tap for dispencing the beer. Does anyone have information on 'balancing' the system? That is, i'd like some way to determine how long the tube from the CO2 tank to the faucet must be in order to dispence a beer with a good head. My current system uses a 6 foot tube, which works well for some beers and not so well for others. I've been told that the beer at the faucet should be exiting at about 1-2 psi for proper head formation and that there's a 3 psi drop per foot of tubing as the beer travels from the keg to the faucet. Of course, the guy who told me this served me what i considered to be a pretty flat beer directly from his system. Hence, i have reason to question what he's told me. Is the information he's provided correct? Any other suggestions? Thanks. Tom Barnett. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 16:16:23 -0500 (EST) From: Paul Shick <SHICK at JCVAXA.jcu.edu> Subject: Rusty freezers, clogged pumps and FWH utilization Hello all, Robert Arguello asks in HBD 2860 about rust problems in his chest freezer. Getting rid of the rust might be as aesy as spraying some Rustoleum paint on it, if it's not too bad. Preventing it is even easier. Some months back, Al K, among others, suggested using a dessicant in chest freezers that are kept above freezing temperatures. I kept forgetting to try this until about two months ago, and I can't believe what a difference it makes. The moisture and "moldy" odors are completely gone. It cost about $7 for a canvas bag of dessicant that you can dry out in the oven every few weeks. A great deal. Randy Pressley asks about grain clogging up the pump in his new RIMS setup, and whether or not to build a filter. I've wondered about this question myself, especially since folks have recently suggested using SS "lint trap" scrubbies around the pickup (under a false bottom) in converted keg mash tuns. I think that this is more worrying than you need to do, in general. Most pump users have a valve at the exit of the pump (probably a gate or ball vavle) that they use to regulate the flow. During the first few minutes of recirculation, I find that I have to clear this valve pretty frequently, using just a quick twist to open it and reset it. This give any trapped grain a chance to flow back into the tun, without raising the flow rate long enough to cause any problems with compaction of the grain bed. After a few minutes, the grain bed has established itself, and there's no longer a need to worry. Unless there's a massive failure of the false bottom, it's pretty much impossible to get enough grain through to hurt the pump. (Don't ask about how I know about failing FBs, please.) On the other hand, I'm kind of leery of the scrubby around the pickup idea, especially if you're using a jet burner under the mash tun. I can picture grain clogging up the scrubby badly enough to restrict the flow, and having a lot of scorching going on as a result. Has anyone tried this with a jet burner? Any problems so far? Finally, lots of folks have asked recently about utilization rates for hops used in FWHing. Some people have been using about the same rate that they get for a 20 minute boil, others the same as a 60 minute boil. In their "Analysis of Brewing Techniques" book, the Fixes measured a HIGHER utilization for FWH than for a 60 minute boil. My own tasting has me tending toward the lower end of the utilization scale, but I don't have any hard measurements to point to. This sounds like a job for Louis Bonham and the BT Experimentation Team! Louis, do you have any plans for experiments along these lines? Paul Shick Basement brewing in Cleveland Hts OH Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 18:50:42 -0500 From: "Steve" <stjones1 at worldnet.att.net> Subject: Canning wort for starters Andrew writes about canning wort to make starters. I started doing this about a year ago, and asked for opinions here on the digest. The most common response I had was the fact that I used a quart starter, but only about 50 ml to start with. After a day or so, I'd step it up to 250, then the full quart. The time lag may have allowed the remaining starter to become contaminated. Although I never noticed any problem before, I decided to can wort in quart jars and half pint jars. I use the half pints to start my slants, then step up to the quart jars so I don't have any open jars setting in the fridge for a day or two. Actually, I usually brew 2 8 gallon batches on brew day, so I make two starters from one half pint, then step up each one with a pint (half of a quart in each), then step up again with another quart each. So, I can 3 quarts for every half pint. As always, YMMV. Hoppy Brewing, Steve State of Franklin Homebrewers about 625 miles south of Jeff in Johnson City, Tennessee http://home.att.net/~stjones1 Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 19:05:57 -0500 From: Mark Tumarkin <mark_t at ix.netcom.com> Subject: re: Prime Tabs, Freezer Repair Tim Martin asks: Will someone please direct me to a mail order source for "prime tabs". These were mentioned four or five months ago but nobody mentioned where to get them. They sound perfect for my occasional split keg/bottle situation. Page 12 of the Sept/Oct Brewing Techniques has an ad from Venezia & Company, apparently the makers of PrimeTab. Their phone number is 206-782-1152. Standard disclaimers apply - and then some. I'm not even a satisfied customer, never having tried the product, just saw the ad. ************************************* Robert Arquello asks: After only a couple years of service as a fermenting cooler, my relatively new chest freezer is rusting. The rust is eating at the interior walls and floor of the unit, especially at seam areas. There is a LOT of moisture present in the freezer at all times so I suppose that I shouldn't be too surprised at this development. Can someone suggest a treatment? I suspect that it will involve some sanding of the rusted areas then a coat of some sort of paint? Suggestions as to what I should use to cover the interior surfaces would be greatly appreciated. A long time ago I had to repair the rusted out floor of an old VW bug, hardware cloth and fiberglass did the trick in that case. I'd suggest you try fiberglass resin after removing the rust either by sanding or chemical rust remover. Doesn't sound like it's rusted through so you probably shouldn't need any fiberglass cloth, certainly you won't need the hardware cloth. : ) Mark Tumarkin Gainesville, FL "I'm glad my bottle opener is Y2K compatible." - Bradley Dilger Return to table of contents
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