---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com


Contents:
  Partigyling ("Michel J. Brown")
  Pumpkin beer (Bill Jankowski)
  Cider Priming (Bill Jankowski)
  yeast culturing and crystal malt vs. unfermentables ("Czerpak, Pete")
  Southern Stainless (Jeffrey Rose)
  DeKoninck and Brewing books (Sjef van den Berg)
  Yeasts from Brewer's Resource? (Andrew Ager)
  Woodruff and Gelatin (Nathan Kanous)
  Channelling in Batch-Sparging (Ken Schwartz)
  More Kegging problems (Steve Milito)
  Cleaning brushes for dip tubes (Dan Johnson)
  Re: Woodruff, Gelatine ("Houseman, David L")
  Largering (Eric.Fouch)
  RE: Chimay yeast? (LaBorde, Ronald)
  RE: Largering (LaBorde, Ronald)
  Chimay yeast / Recipies ("Spies, James")
  Re: Chimay yeast (Robert Arguello)
  Reusing Yeast (DejNiki)
  Pumps and Plumbing (WayneM38)
  Re: DeKoninck ("Tomusiak, Mark")
  Pitching rates for steam ("Kirk Harralson")
  Re: Yeast Update (Scott Murman)
  Re: Belgian Tripel/Pale (Scott Murman)
  wyeast 1338 (JPullum127)
  oregon brew crew (JPullum127)
  canning wort ("C and K")
  Re:nummy Belgian beers / candi sugar (Bill Wible)
  Chill Haze (Jorge Blasig - IQ)
  Chill Haze (Jorge Blasig - IQ)
  stale malt (Randy Ricchi)
  Happy Holidays Homebrew Competition (Jack Baty)
  Use of Flaked corn in CAP-mashing procedure (NEWTRADBC)


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Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 01:22:49 -0800
From: "Michel J. Brown" <homemade at spiritone.com>
Subject: Partigyling

Tried Louis Bonham's method of no sparge brewing, and made an IPA (5 
gallons at 1.050), and ordinary bitter (5 gallons of 1.032) from 15 lbs 
of grain. This means my efficiency suffered a 15% loss, but I will 
report on the flavor components on my next posting when I start drinking 
these experimental brews with the Oregon Brew Crew. The wort tasted 
pretty good, even the ordinary bitter tasted pretty good for a *small* 
beer. Think I'll keep on double mashing for at least a little while -- 
it seems to make for a good use of time for return on investment vs 
production gained. TTYAL, God Bless, and ILBCNU!

                Dr. Michel J. Brown, D.C. {Portland, OR}
      2222 miles due west of Jeff Renner
                         homemade at spiritone.com
              http://www.spiritone.com/~homemade/index.html
    "In the field of observation, chance favors only the prepared mind"
          L. Pasteur 


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Date: Mon, 02 Nov 1998 19:25:56 -0500
From: Bill Jankowski <wjankowski at snet.net>
Subject: Pumpkin beer

Just a side note. Brewed a pumpkin ale last night. I was a little concerned
as the recipe called for 4 oz of Cascade Hops, that the beer may be overly
hopped. So I used 3.5 oz instead ( and changed the grain bill a little bit,
and ...) I tasted a chunk of pumpkin after the boil and it was way bitter.
Anyways, whole point is that the pumpkin chunks absorbed a lot of the hop
bitterness. I'm guessing that this is why it called for a lot of hops for a
relatively un-hoppy style. 
	Recipie:
	9Lbs Maris Otter (store was out of American pale 2 row)
	4 Lbs Crystal (40L ideally, I used 2Lbs 20, 2 Lbs 80)
	4 Lbs Pumpkin
	3.5 Oz Cascade (3 oz for 60 min, 0.5 oz for 10 min)
	Ale yeast (EDME)

	Mash in at ~150 for ~60 min with 4 gal of 170 water. Sparge with 3 gal  at  170.
	While you're doing that, take your pumpkin, clean it, and bake at 375 for
1 hour. Let cool and cut into 1 in cubes. Add to wort.
	Boil for 60 mins. Add hops as necessary, clarifying agent if desired.
Cool, pitch, let it sit in the basement until it finishes. 
	If you want a spiced beer, the book said to run 1 Tablespoon of pumpkin
pie spice through the coffee maker and add the "spice tea" to the beer at
bottling/kegging. I'm still not sure about this.

Bill Jankowski
Colchester, CT				Texan in Exile.



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Date: Wed, 04 Nov 1998 05:39:28 -0500
From: Bill Jankowski <wjankowski at snet.net>
Subject: Cider Priming

As usual, I'm flying by night, and hadn't thought about all points of my
brew prior to throwing it in the fermenter. I've got 3 gallons of cider
fermenting with champagne yeast, and am planning on bottling all of it. If
I prime it with more fresh cider, how much should I use to get adequate but
not excessive carbonation?

Thanks,
Bill Jankowski
Texan in Exile



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Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 08:41:03 -0500 
From: "Czerpak, Pete" <Pete.Czerpak at siigroup.com>
Subject: yeast culturing and crystal malt vs. unfermentables

To all that culture yeast from carboy bottoms:

I'm using the method of culturing yeasties from primary fermentation
carboy bottoms sludge recommended by Wyeast and was having trouble
deciding when to pour off the "suspended" yeast from the sludge (hops,
tiny grain pieces, etc).  does the trub appear to be courser particles
than the fine yeast?  or is it better just to pitch the whole lot of
stuff from a practical standpoint.  I am just trying to pitch a decent
count of yeast since I am having trouble reaching high conversion when
just pitching from the packet or a single starter.  My OG tend to be
about 1.050-1.060 and it seems I never get much below 1.020 or 1.018
which are about 10% below the supposed attenuation of London Ale 2
yeasts from Wyeast.

Also, I seem to remember a relation between L (crystal malt color) and
percentage unfermentable sugars.  is it high L, high unferementables, or
the other way around?

Thanks all.  Private replies are ok.

Pete Czerpak
pete.czerpak at siigroup.com


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Date: 04 Nov 98 09:23:16 -0400
From: Jeffrey Rose <jeffrey_rose at eri.eisai.com>
Subject: Southern Stainless

Has anyone dealt with these guys?  They make affordable SS pots for
brewing (~$120-150) but don't appear to have much of a clue about the nature of
the brewing process.  They sold me a false bottom with 1/2 inch holes
then, after I tried to explain the uselessness of such large holes, they sent
me a round piece of window screen to lay over the false bottom.  The
false bottom itself sits on 3" legs that effectively separates the water from
the grain-again, a fundamental flaw in the design.  I'm going to have to
hacksaw the legs off and find a better way to utilize the false bottom. 
The guy on the phones at So. Stainless seems to be number than a pounded
thumb.

Jeffro



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Date: Wed, 04 Nov 1998 09:25:49 -0800
From: Sjef van den Berg <vandenb at uconnvm.uconn.edu>
Subject: DeKoninck and Brewing books


It was interesting to note in Brad Railsback's posting re: DeKonick ale,
that home brewing books in The Netherlands are much less advanced than
those  available in the U.S.

S. Beck and J.Child ( yes-- the very Julia) (in "Mastering the Art of
French Cooking") say (on p. 84)  "Thus you cannot even find a bread tin in
a French household store, and there are no French recipes for homemade
bread".  From the reputation of French baking alone that makes loads of sense.

I wonder how many of us would be homebrewers if we could sample from the
variety and quality that the fortunate Mr. Railsback has had access to for
the last two years.  Oh, gerstevlokken would be flaked barley.



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Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 08:26:07 -0600
From: Andrew Ager <andrew-ager at nwu.edu>
Subject: Yeasts from Brewer's Resource?

Greetings,

Two days ago, I received a late birthday gift from my future father-in-law:
a complete yeast culturing kit from Brewer's Resource!  I just need to pick
6 strains...

So, any advice on good strains from these guys?  I don't see any lagers in
my fermentors any time soon, as I don't have adequate temp. control.

Thanks!

Andy Ager 		Beer Geek, Beer Judge
Chicago, IL		Homebrewer Ordinaire
- --Chicago Beer Society -- Silver Medal Homebrew Club of the Year, 1998 --





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Date: Wed, 04 Nov 1998 08:29:25 -0600
From: Nathan Kanous <nlkanous at pharmacy.wisc.edu>
Subject: Woodruff and Gelatin

Sweet woodruff syrup is used in berliner weisse...apparently the sweetness
melds quite nicely with the sourness of the berliner weisse.  Don't know
about any other appliations.

I've used gelatin to make slants just as you describe.  They seem to have
held up well for a couple of months and then break down.  Maybe the yeast
begin to autolyze since I can't keep them near freezing and the "spilled"
enzymes begin to break down the gelatin.  Don't know.

I've switched to using sterile distilled water...we'll see how that works.
Hope this helps.
nathan


Nathan in Madison, WI


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Date: Wed, 04 Nov 1998 07:47:02 -0700
From: Ken Schwartz <kenbob at elp.rr.com>
Subject: Channelling in Batch-Sparging

Kelly C. Heflin mentions channelling in batch-sparge brewing:

"Anyway I'm curious how this will relate to my system where I do a type
of
batchsparge. Recirculating at high speed with a pump, and then diverting
that line into the boil pot. It doesn't seem the fluid would have time
to
start channeling."

One of the interesting "features" of batch-sparge and no-sparge brewing
is that channelling has *no impact* on efficiency as it does in a
sparged mash.  The reason is simple -- channelling in a sparged mash
robs you of efficiency because clear water bypasses sugar-laden grains. 
When no-sparge or batch-sparge brewing, ideally all the wort in the
mashtun is of the same gravity, and the sugar in the grain has been
evenly distributed throughout the wort.  Therefore all the runoff is of
the same gravity and even if channelling exists, it is of no consequence
as long as the desired quantity of wort is run off.

- -- 

*****
Ken Schwartz
El Paso, TX
kenbob at elp.rr.com
http://home.elp.rr.com/brewbeer


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Date: Wed, 04 Nov 1998 09:44:00 -0500
From: Steve Milito <milito at radonc.musc.edu>
Subject: More Kegging problems

I hate to belabor a thread, but I too am having problems with
dispensing. This weekend I filtered and kegged a 5 gal batch of pale
ale. I chilled the keg to ~40 F and pressurized it to 10 PSI.  I pushed
the CO2 through the liquid fitting, allowing the CO2 to bubble through
the beer, and purged the gas 2-3 times. I then rocked the keg a few
times until it stoppped taking the gas so readily. I then let the keg
sit for 2 days (minus a couple of 'test' beers'). Well the beer gushed
out. So having Dave Miller's excellent book, I read the kegging chapter,
and I realized I was using 1/4" ID vinyl tubing. So I went out and
bought 3/16" tubing and measured out 3.3 ft (9.9 lbs restriction), and
poured a beer. Still gushed out! I then lowered the pressure to 8 lbs,
and purged the gas. Still really fast. I then removed the tubing from
the fittings, and attached the remaining portion of the 10' I purchased.
So now the length is ~ 6'8", which should provide 20 lbs restriction.
Yet the beer still gushes out. How fast should the beer come out of the
faucet? Does 3/16" ID tubing really have 3lb / ft restriction? Could my
pressure gauge be that far off? Any ideas?

Best Regards,

Steve



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Date: Wed, 04 Nov 1998 10:07:14 -0500
From: Dan Johnson <shag at ipass.net>
Subject: Cleaning brushes for dip tubes

Fellow Brewing Brothers and Sisters,

A top 5 homebrew gadget purchase this year for me was a dip tube
cleaning brush from American Brewmaster ( 919-850-0095) in Raleigh, NC.
This product erased all doubts about whether I had a clean keg or not.
It is approx. 30"  of twisted metal strands (similar to a bottle brush)
and has bristles on the last 3-4" . The usual disclaimer about "no
affiliation" applies.

Or another thought.....
An old oil dipstick and a ball of cotton might work. Yea! Off flavors
galore. Do I see (taste and smell) a new style on the horizon? :>)

In a brewing frenzy,
Dan Johnson
Raleigh, NC


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Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 10:34:56 -0500 
From: "Houseman, David L" <David.Houseman at unisys.com>
Subject: Re: Woodruff, Gelatine

Eric asks about the use of woodruff in beer or mead.   Although woodruff
is sold in homebrew stores (sometimes you can find it there in dried
form), I must be one of the few brewers who have used it.  I once tasted
a wonderful beer by Andreas Brewing Company that was a very pale
Woodruff Ale.  I was able to replicate this fairly closely but never got
to try mine and theirs side by side.   But in trying I learned a lot
about woodruff.  It's a perenial herb.  But the essential oils that give
you the sweet flavors and aromas unique to woodruff only are formed upon
drying.  So you have to use dried woodruff.  I did buy some plants and
they are now a ground cover in my yard but I sort of lost interest in
woodruff about the time they started paying off.   The oils in the dried
woodruff are only soluble in alcohol.  So putting them in the kettle is
a waste of time.  Dry spicing is the way to go.  And it doesn't take
much at all to over power a beer.  I'd recommend starting with 1/4oz in
a 5 gallon batch and go up or down from there.  Cascades hops goes very
well with woodruff, so brewing a light ale (fruitiness also goes very
well) with Cascades hops for a flavor and aroma addtition followed by
dry spicing with woodruff and some Cascades for aroma (here maybe only
1/2oz) will yield a very pleasant beer.  The spicing needs to be subtle,
not over powering.  Balance of malt, hops and the spice is needed.  I've
also found that when this sits in the bottle for a long time, the
woodruf does go away over time (months), so drink up.   A slight amount
in a wit might be interesting, but woodruff results in a flavor that can
be described as sweet and this isn't really one you want in a wit.  But
just a little may make for an interesting wit.  Certainly the same sort
of very light base beer is what you're looking for anyway.  

Dave Houseman


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Date: 4 Nov 1998 11:07:21 -0500
From: Eric.Fouch at steelcase.com
Subject: Largering


HBD-
Willy wants to know:

Date: 3 Nov 1998 11:38:02 -0800
From: "William Warren" <wwarren at geron.com>
Subject: Largering


11/3/98
                                                       Largering

I have a question about brewing a larger.

I heard that you can larger beers without the use of a fridge. Is that
true and how is it done. I would like brew a Pilsner and I will have the
opportunity to use my refrigerator. Any suggestions would be helpful.


A recent BT article covered this.  In it is covered how to brew small batches
of high gravity, then diluting it with water at bottling to make it larger.

Hope this helps!  ;)

Eric (I have a masters degree....In Science!) Fouch
Bent Dick YoctoBrewery
Kentwood MI


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Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 10:09:28 -0600 
From: rlabor at lsumc.edu (LaBorde, Ronald)
Subject: RE: Chimay yeast?

>>>>
From: "Penn, John" <PennJE1 at SPACEMSG.JHUAPL.edu>

	I got a bottle of Chimay with the red label and put it in the
refrigerator for a day.  I then poured the bottom of the bottle/yeast
sediment into a 12 oz starter of wort.  After two days, nothing so far.
Did I damage the yeast by putting the bottle in the refrigerator for a
day?  Can I culture Chimay yeast this way or is there a better way?  How
long before fermentation should start?  Is Chimay yeast the original
yeast or is there a second yeast added at bottling time?  Sorry for all
the questions but I'm hoping to be enlightened by the very knowledgeable
yeast culturers of the HBD.  
 	 I also got a bottle of Duvel.  Same questions about the yeast
and culturing.  Thanks,
  John Penn
<<<

I am happy to see your post, as I am in the process of trying to grow some
Chimay yeast also.  I had a dated 03-98 on the cork bottle of Chimay red.
Well, I cooled it in the fridge for a couple days so I could drink the
Chimay.  Then I swirled the remaining 1/2 ounce of Chimay to loosen the
sediment, then quickly blowtorched the neck, and poured it into my
Erlenmeyer flask containing 100ml of 1040 wort.  Placed this on my nifty
magnetic stirrer, stirred for four days and nada. No sign of fermentation.
So:

   1) IMYR (is my yeast ruined)?

   2) Is 03-98 too old?

   3) What is the youngest cork anyone has seen?

   4) Any suggestions to improve the chances?

I have been using the stirrer on Wyeast 1968 and following the HBD
procedures of feeding a couple of times for a couple of days, I then cooled,
decanted and fed early on brewday.  And did it ever make a difference on my
ESB, the fermentation was obvious four hours after pitching, and I got a 2-3
inch krauesen head in the primary.  After 3 days the SG was down to 1016,
and still fermenting after racking to secondary.  Haven't measured the FG
yet, but before when I used 1968 without stirring and feeding three times,
it stopped at 1018.

Ron

Ronald La Borde - Metairie, Louisiana - rlabor at lsumc.edu



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Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 10:22:14 -0600 
From: rlabor at lsumc.edu (LaBorde, Ronald)
Subject: RE: Largering

>>>
I have a question about brewing a larger.

I heard that you can larger beers without the use of a fridge. Is that 
true and how is it done. I would like brew a Pilsner and I will have the 
<<<

The temperature needs to be steady, and at the optimum for the beer you are
lagering.  If you are lucky enough to have this kind of weather, and you are
on good terms with your weather radio, then - go for it!

With a fridge, on the other hand, you can be the weatherman.

Ron

Ronald La Borde - Metairie, Louisiana - rlabor at lsumc.edu



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Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 11:40:19 -0500
From: "Spies, James" <Spies at dhcd.state.md.us>
Subject: Chimay yeast / Recipies

John Penn asks about culturing Chimay yeast from the bottle . . .

I've successfully cultured from Chimay bottles before, and they rarely
fail to start - with a caveat or two --

First, I'd look for as new of a bottle as possible.  The longer the
yeast sits in the relatively high alcohol % of Chimay, the more time it
lags before starting.  (with the increasing demand, it shoudn't be hard
to find a bottle of Chimay Red that's only a few months old . . .)

You were correct in refrigerating the used bottle.  Here's my usual
procedure -

Let the unopened bottle sit still for a day or two to settle most of the
yeast (it's pretty fluffy and roils up off the bottom easily as you move
the bottle around).  Open, and decant the beer very carefully (don't
glug-glug the beer out).  Leave about 2 inches in the bottom of the
bottle (or stop when the yeast makes a break for the bottle lip).  I
usually flame the mouth of the bottle as well as a (3"x3") foil square,
cover the mouth of the bottle, and refrigerate for a day or so until
it's convenient to make a starter.  Make your starter as usual (I
usually aim for the 1050's - not sure why people make such weak
starters), but decant the starter into the *bottle*, not the other way
around.  This just lessens the risk of uninvited guests (flame the lip
of the bottle and sanitize the funnel that you use).  Affix an airlock,
and swirl the bottle once or twice each day until the yeasties wake up.
Often they are slow, but they always wake up.

Chimay used to bottle with a different strain, but they switched (I
think in the '80's) to the fermentation strain, so when they start up,
you've got the real deal.  Build up the starter in about 3 or 4 steps
until you've got a good slurry (I don't decant anything until probably
step 3).  Pitch as usual . . .

I got a lot of interest in my recipies for the Belgian Strong and
Dubbel, so FWIW, here goes . . .

Devil's Advocate Belgian Strong
(pale Belgian strong)

13 lbs. DeWolf Cosyns Pilsner
- -----
2 lbs. table sugar, dissolved
- -----
1 oz. Styrian Goldings (60 min)
 .75 oz. Styrian Goldings (10 min)
- -----
Pitch good quantity of Wyeast 1388 starter or Duvel starter
- -----
Single infusion  at  149 for 60 min.
- -----
OG - 1.087
FG - 1.017

(pretty simple, huh?)  The relatively low mash temp promotes
fermentability and makes the beer fairly conducive to attenuation.
Wyeast 1214 can also be used, but it gets estery, and I don't like that
in this style - YMMV.


Holy Grail Trappist Ale
(belgian dubbel - abbey style ale)

10 lbs. DWC Pilsner
1.5 lbs. Weyermann's Munich
1.5 lbs. 60 lov. crystal
 .75 lbs. DWC Aromatic
 .33 lbs. DWC Special-B
- -----
1 lb. amber candi sugar
- -----
1 oz. Hallertauer (60 min.)
1 oz. Styrian Goldings (60 min.)
- -----
Pitch good quantity of Wyeast 1214 starter or Chimay starter
- -----
Single infusion  at  158 for 60 min.
- -----
OG - 1.092 (way high for style, but what the hell . . .)
FG - 1.022
- -----

This is one of my favorites.  .33 lbs. is about the max on the Special
B; don't overdo it.

That's all folks.  Hope this helps someone . . .

Jay Spies
Wishful Thinking Basement *Brasserie*
Baltimore, MD


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Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 09:25:00 -0800 (PST)
From: Robert Arguello <robertac at calweb.com>
Subject: Re: Chimay yeast

On Tue, 3 Nov 1998 10:14:03 -0500 
John Penn asked about culturing Chimay yeast.

>	I got a bottle of Chimay with the red label and put it in the
>refrigerator for a day.  I then poured the bottom of the bottle/yeast
>sediment into a 12 oz starter of wort.  After two days, nothing so far.
?Did I damage the yeast by putting the bottle in the refrigerator for a
>day?  Can I culture Chimay yeast this way or is there a better way?  How
>long before fermentation should start?  Is Chimay yeast the original
>yeast or is there a second yeast added at bottling time?  

 
I will say that the following is "better" only because, (for me), it has
been foolproof with nearly 100% positive results. 

Rather than pour the dregs of a single bottle of Chimay into a starter wort,
pour it into a petri dish with an agar/wort growth medium then dump out the
excess. Cover the dish, set in a warm location and leave alone for a few
days. You can use the yeast cells now growing on the agar to innoculate a
small, (5 mililiter), starter then build it up until you have produced a
pitchable sized starter. You would benefit by learning a bit about yeast
culturing procedures beforehand. If you are unwilling to go the culturing
route, you can increase your odds of success by using the dregs of multiple
bottles of chimay to innoculate your wort. I have had good results, (about
50% success rate), obtaining enough cells to directly innoculate a small
starter wort by pitching the dregs of 3 bottles of Chimay into 1/2 cup of
starter wort, letting that work for a day or two, then building the size up
gradually. You will probably have no difficulty in finding a couple friends
to help drink the Chimay. Whether you go the culturing route or direct, make
sure everything is as sterile as possible and "flame" the lip of the Chimay
bottle before pouring. I asked Chimay if they used the same yeast for
bottling and was told that indeed they do. (This was in reference to the
Grand Reserve).


********************************************************************     	
Robert Arguello <robertac at calweb.com>
Corny kegs - Mahogany 6-pack carriers and ProMash Brewing Software
http://www.calweb.com/~robertac
********************************************************************



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Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 12:34:57 EST
From: DejNiki at aol.com
Subject: Reusing Yeast

Hello!
I've been brewing for some time now with pretty good results (BEER). Until
know I usually got my yeast from the local homebrew supplier. But as allways I
like to try something new. To make a long story short I want to try to reuse
yeast from my current batch of IPA in my next batch of brew. I have never done
this before, so I would like to get some tips, pointers and ideas on how to
reused my yeast.
Thank you on advance.
Dejan
Chicago, IL
e-mail is OK
DejNiki at aol.com


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Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 13:04:34 EST
From: WayneM38 at aol.com
Subject: Pumps and Plumbing



>Ken asks:
>>My basic question is, can I use reducing coupling to change the inlet
>>on my pump from 1/2" down to 3/8" or 5/16" in order to accomodate the
>fittings
>>on my mashtun, boil vessel, and sparge vessel. Will I burn up the pump by
>>doing this? The almost non-existent instructions that came with the pump
>
>
KEN:

To avoid those type of design problems on my HERMS-RIMS, I plumbed my pump,
etc. as follows:

Quick connnect fittings on all pump inlet and all outlet flesible hoses and
matching fittings on brew kettle, mash tun and HLT.

Pump inlet has 1/2 inch norprene high temp hose and pump outlet has 3/8inch
braided hoses. The 1/2 inch and 3/8 inch quick connects are interchangable so
it is easy to switch the pump from HLT to Mash tun to brew kettle to
fermenter.

 I had to do a re-design after the first batch because the pump would not
prime consistently.  A call to Bill Stewart, Moving Brews, no affiliation,
satisfied customer, yada yada yada., fixed the design problem by reducing
sharp 90 degree bends in the internal plumbing of HLT and Mash tun.   I would
think that pump primming would be your biggest design concern.  Magnetic pumps
are not self primming and too much reduction on the intake might make starting
the flow of hot liquids more difficult. Test your design with actual working
temps to determine the most efficient design.

I almost did not buy the quick connects because of the price, but now that I
have run 6 batches through my system, I am glad that I invested the money. It
has made my system very flexible.. no pun intended...

Have fun

Wayne
Big Fun Brewing
Milwaukee


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Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 10:18:45 -0800 
From: "Tomusiak, Mark" <tomusiak at amgen.com>
Subject: Re: DeKoninck

Thanks to Brad for posting a recipe for DeKoninck obtained from a Dutch
homebrew book.  Just to provide another data point, Michael Jackson's "The
Great Beers of Belgium" indicates that DeKoninck is made from a blend of
pilsner and vienna malts and is hopped entirely with Saaz, sometimes of the
Belgian variety but most often with the Czech variety.  My tasting
recollections would indicate that the grain bill probably contains something
other than pilsner and vienna malt, but I think the all-Saaz hop bill is
probably correct; DeKoninck has a very delicate spiciness to it.  Another
thing I love about DeKoninck is its very soft mouth-feel - any guesses about
that?  Is it the water?   Wishing I was in Antwerp, 

Mark Tomusiak
Boulder, Colorado


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Date: Wed, 04 Nov 1998 13:44:05 -0500
From: "Kirk Harralson"<nie1kwh at ismd.ups.com>
Subject: Pitching rates for steam

     I've always read that you should pitch at least twice as much 
     yeast when making a lager as you would with an ale.  Since I've 
     never brewed a lager, I never questioned why.  Is it because of 
     slower starts at the reduced temperatures; or is it something 
     inherent in lager yeasts?  I just naturally assumed it was 
     because of the lower temperatures involved.  If this is the case, 
     then steam beers would be pitched at more of an ale rate, 
     correct?  I'm currently planning to pitch 14g of Superior lager 
     yeast into 4.5 gallons of wort at approximately 62F.  Will this 
     be severely underpitching?
     
     Kirk Harralson
     Bel Air, Maryland



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Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 11:55:21 -0800 (PST)
From: Scott Murman <smurman at best.com>
Subject: Re: Yeast Update


> Widmer adds a different yeast when they bottle their Hefe. As you have
> found out, it is used because it is not flocculant and is not a good
> fermenter. I would suggest BrewTek CL-980 to brew a Widmer style Hefe.
> 
> Brett Gober

I don't believe this is true.  Widmer has been very proud of using
their Alt strain and keeping it in the bottle.  I've cultured from the
Widmer Hefeweizen bottle, and used it in several brews all with great
results.  Things may have changed in the last few months with Widmer,
but I'm doubtful.  I think Jeremy just had a culturing glitch of some
type.  It happens.  I'd suggest trying again, or using the WhiteLabs
American Hefeweizen strain.

 -SM-



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Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 12:38:24 -0800 (PST)
From: Scott Murman <smurman at best.com>
Subject: Re: Belgian Tripel/Pale

> Has anyone tried 'parti-gyle' brewing, Belgian style?
> 
> I'd like to brew a tripel (2 gal) of about 1.085-090, and a
> pale (5 gal) of about 1.045-050.
>
> Steve

Steve, 

Don't take this as discouragement, but one of the attributes of
Belgian high-gravity ales is that they are lighter in body and highly
attenuated due to the addition of sugar to the kettle.  A tripel (I
have no idea how to spell that any longer) will have 2 lbs. of sugar
or more added to raise the gravity.  While using a parti-gyle method
for these brews will likely make a great beer, it may not be exactly
what you're aiming for.  Then again, it may be better.  Just plan
accordingly. 

 -SM-



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Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 17:20:21 EST
From: JPullum127 at aol.com
Subject: wyeast 1338


i used wyeast 1338 european ale yeast 8 days ago for a 1.048 wort. temp
according to fermometer strip has been pretty steady 64-66. airlock bubbling
has slowed considerably but i still have at least 1& 1/2 inches of krausen
that shows no interest in dropping yet. . I haven't taken a gravity since
there is no hurry and why screw around with it if your not going to do
anything. has anybody had much experience with this
yeast? is this usual for this strain? later marc




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Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 17:25:14 EST
From: JPullum127 at aol.com
Subject: oregon brew crew

I am still looking for a connection with a homebrew club  called  the  oregon
brew crew with an objective of getting some pointers to cloning  their
wonderfull collaborator milk stout.any help would be really appreciated thanks
again     marc


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Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 16:04:57 -0800
From: "C and K" <Cuckold at cornerpub.com>
Subject: canning wort

Just when you think you know it all :-)

For the last year, I have been saving 1/2 bottle of boiled wort from each
batch.  I carefully sanitize bottle, cap, and everything else in contact
with the wort.  No canning, no pressure cooking.  Just commandeer part of
the post boiled wort (hopped), cap the bottle, and save in the basement.  

Seeing all these canning posts got me curious, so I rechecked Charlie, and
do see where he recommended refridgerating the results.

I have never had a botulism problem.  Once, I did notice a substantial
pressure buildup while uncapping a bottle of wort for starter.  At the
time, I just attributed it to capping the wort while still hot.

This may not be the smartest way to do things, and I am presently
reevaluating my methods, thanks to all of you, on the HBD.  Thanks for a
great forum, no spam, and a welcome, learning, and sharing environment.

Chris and Karin (My expert taster.  She's German!)










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Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 20:25:15 -0400
From: bwible at wanda.vf.pond.com (Bill Wible)
Subject:  Re:nummy Belgian beers / candi sugar

In response to this:
Belgian Candi sugars are definitely different from ordinary table/cane sugar,
the biggest difference being that Belgian candi sugar is made from beets,
while  regular table sugar is made from cane.  Big difference.
I made 2 or 3 Belgians this year, all trippels.  Still trying to get it
right. ;)  I've only used clear candi sugar, no amber or dark.
I found you can buy rock candy at some of the candy outlets, and rock candy
is very similar to clear candi sugar.  It works well in a trippel, anyway.

I also read several articles in the past 2 or 3 issues regarding Belgian yeasts.
I have read and heard that you should not attempt to re-culture yeasts from
Belgian beer.  Most Belgian breweries add a second yeast at bottling, which
is different from the yeasts used for primary fermentation.  And most
Belgian
beers, lambics in particular, also have bacteria intentionally introduced
at some point.  Rather than re-culture from the bottle, you're better off
buying yeast.  Wyeast has several different Belgian yeasts, and there are
others like White Labs.

Homebrewers can make great Belgian knock-offs.  I know, because I've done
it, and I've only been brewing for less than 2 years.  :)





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Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 22:46:19 -0300 (GMT-0300)
From: Jorge Blasig - IQ <gisalb at fing.edu.uy>
Subject: Chill Haze



Dear friends,
I have tried several ways to avoid chill haze formation with no success.
All batches I have prepared show chill haze when the beer is cold. I would
appreciate your suggestions plus a good description on how chill haze is
formed. That would give me an idea of the best method to eliminate is if
there is any.
thanks.

Jorge Blasig
First homebrewer in Uruguay.



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Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 22:46:19 -0300 (GMT-0300)
From: Jorge Blasig - IQ <gisalb at fing.edu.uy>
Subject: Chill Haze



Dear friends,
I have tried several ways to avoid chill haze formation with no success.
All batches I have prepared show chill haze when the beer is cold. I would
appreciate your suggestions plus a good description on how chill haze is
formed. That would give me an idea of the best method to eliminate is if
there is any.
thanks.

Jorge Blasig
First homebrewer in Uruguay.



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Date: Wed, 04 Nov 1998 21:53:03 -0500
From: Randy Ricchi <rricchi at ccisd.k12.mi.us>
Subject: stale malt

In Tuesdays HBD, Jim Booth asked how long others store their malt, and in
what manner.

I only had trouble once storing malt for an extended period of time (6
months or so) in the original bag. It was Briess 2-row, 50# paper sack.

I store all of my malt in my basement, which is cement block, 10 year old
construction, cement floor. It's not a leaky, wet basement by any means,
but is somewhat damp, more so in the summer than in the winter, because the
furnace tends to dry things out a bit in the winter, I assume. I live in
the upper peninsula of Michigan.

I have never thrown out any of my old malt bags, because I am somewhat of a
pack-rat. I think, "say,,, nice big bag,,, might have a use for it some
day". As a result, I have quite a few empty plastic and paper grain sacks
laying around the place.

When I opened this particular bag of Briess and started grinding it, I
noticed it didn't grind as crisply as it should; it seemed damp.  I smelled
the malt and it smelled like fresh hay. I figured it must have absorbed
moisture, so I weighed the bag and estimated I gained about 8 or 9%
moisture.  I was wondering whether I should use the malt or not, and
decided I would at least mash in, and then see how the mash smelled.  I was
brewing a pils type beer, with nothing but the Briess 2-row.  The mash
smelled fine, so I brewed the beer, and it turned out fine, as did the
other beers I brewed with the same grain. I just got 8-9% less
points/lb/gal than I usually do, which I expected.

I looked at the bag the malt came in and noticed that it was three layers,
all paper. The middle layer of paper had the Briess printing on it just
like the outer layer.  I could have sworn that I had looked at paper sacks
before and found them to have an inner lining of plastic or something, so I
dug out a couple of old empty Briess bags and saw that the middle layer in
those bags was a wax-paper coated paper, with no printing on it.  I never
had problems storing malt in those bags, nor in any other bags, and I have
used Shreier (paper, with a plastic liner), Hugh Baird, Muntons, Durst,
Weissheimer, etc.- all plastic bags. It appears that the only time I had a
problem was because I had grain that was sold in a faulty bag.

That's my experience. I have read in this digest that in some locales there
is a problem with small bugs being able to get in through the stitch holes.
I guess I've been fortunate in that respect.

I also have chocolate, Black patent, and Roast barley that I bought 3 or 4
years ago, and I still use it, and it's just fine. I use the original
plastic bags and just twist and tie them off tight.

Anyway, that's my two cents and couple of hundred words.



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Date: Wed, 04 Nov 1998 21:15:50 -0600
From: Jack Baty <jack at wubios.wustl.edu>
Subject: Happy Holidays Homebrew Competition

The 1998 edition of the St.Louis Brews' Happy Holidays Homebrew
Competition will take place on December 11 and 12.  After the
competition we will have our annual Christmas banquet, awards
presentation, and visit from Santa.  Visiting judges are invited.

Entries are due by December 5.  Visit our website, www.stlbrews.org, or
contact Head Judge John Sullivan, sullvan at anet-stl.com, for details.  

Please take a look at our style descriptions.  We have what we believe
to be a superior set of style guidelines.  These guidelines are based on
an analysis of several published guidelines along with extensive
experience in brewing, judging, tasting, and competing.


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Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 22:17:21 EST
From: NEWTRADBC at aol.com
Subject: Use of Flaked corn in CAP-mashing procedure

I'm about to make my first-ever CAP, and first-ever use of flaked corn.  Do I
need to gelatinize it with a boil, like rice, or can I just throw it in the
mash and do a simple 135F protein rest followed by sacch rest, or do I need to
do lower temp protein rests as well.

Thanks much.  Tom Bergman


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