---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com


Contents:
  re: Regulators (John_E_Schnupp)
  Re: Weinacht Weisse (The Greenman)
  re: RIMS False Bottom for GOTT (John_E_Schnupp)
  re: Aluminum questions (John_E_Schnupp)
  Old bay beer (Mikey Beck)
  Miller Commercial ("Houseman, David L")
  Glass Carboy Valve (randy.pressley)
  Re: flat beer (Jeff Renner)
  Re: Aluminum questions (Jeff Renner)
  Battle Creek, Kalamazoo, Holland, Grand Rapids, LaPorte & Hammond ("Bruce Garner")
  yeast suck-up clarification ("Spies, Jay")
  How to make a Bock from a Doppelbock (Charley Burns)
  Zymurgy and Nottingham (AlannnnT)
  NPT/MPT (John Wilkinson)
  Re: Brass and Lead (John Palmer)
  RE: Aluminum questions (LaBorde, Ronald)
  Thanks To Pat and Karl (ThE GrEaT BrEwHoLiO)
  re: Chill haze and RIMS (MaltHound)
  stokes flow - fact or fiction?/isinglass preparation/old bay/wyea (Boeing)" <BayerMA at navair.navy.mil>
  flavor not foot, low malt beer ("David R. Burley")
  Sparging temperature (Charley Burns)
  O2 gauge & corona mill (RMerid7682)
  Another Belgian Ale problem (SRNagley)
  Fw: gas on fire ("Thomas Kramer")
  reply to: "Regulators" from HBD#2877 (Herbert Bresler)
  Re: Pressure sparging (David lamotte)
  Re: Power Sparging (Bret Morrow)


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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 22:23:16 -0800
From: John_E_Schnupp at amat.com
Subject: re: Regulators

>This weekend I purchased a regulator at a flea market for 10$.  It looks
to
>be in good condition. It appears to be brass; it has (I think) a 7/8"
female
>tapered thread flare fitting on one side, and a 1/2" tapered thread male
>nipple on the other.  It says "Listed compressed gas regulator" "2 stage
>oxygen" "Craftsmen model #313.54302" on the face.  It has two intact
guages,
>one to 3000lb the other to 150lb.
>
>Could I use this for C02?

Probably not in it's present configuration.  It sounds like this regulator
was
used on an acetylene tank, but can't be sure from the description.  There
are
several types of CGA (compressed gas adapter) fittings.  Each one is for
different types of gas.  You wouldn't want somebody accidentally hooking up
a N2 bottle instead of compressed breathing gas, would you.  That's why the
different fittings.

The oxygen label means that it is suitable for use with oxygen, but it
doesn't
mean that it has been used on a oxygen tank.  O2 is a very strong oxidizer
and
can violently react with internal working of the regulator if they were not
designed for O2 use.  NEVER use a regulator on O2 that does not have an
oxygen use certification.

That being said, if there is a gas supplier in your area, you should be
able
to take the regulator to them.  They'll probably have the correct CGA
fittings
for CO2.  The most expensive part is the regulator and it sounds like
you've
got a deal.  I'd also think about getting the functionality of the
regulator
checked.

John Schnupp, N3CNL
Colchester, VT
95 XLH 1200






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Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 03:17:40 -0700
From: The Greenman <greenman at sdc.org>
Subject: Re: Weinacht Weisse

Greetings Steve and all:

I used the question posed by Steve as an excuse to call
my German friends.  Once I had been on the phone long
enough for my Deutsch to come back, I asked the question and
after some initial confusion associated with morning(I forgot 
about the time difference and called at 8:30 am German time)
I got some answers.  They then called a friend in Bavaria
and got some better answers when they called back.

Accordingly, this is what I was told.  They style you asked
about is better known to homebrewers as "Weizenbock."  There
are some guidelines,  it is 50-60 percent wheat malt, sometimes
lower.  Its full bodied, and bitterness is extremely low.  
Traditionally, Weinacht Weisse is Dark with some toasty malt flavor.
and the original gravity should fall somewhere in the 1.070-1.075 range.
My dear friends assumed it was a hefe-weissen (with yeast) so it may
cloudy stuff.  They forgot to ask the brewer (oh-well)  Personally,
I enjoy hefe-weissen

Steve, you should ask your friend if he remembers the color and if 
it was cloudy, and shoot from there, if he remembers it well enough,
tell me because now I'm curious.  Weissbeir is my thing.

I would probably brew using Wyeasts Weizen Yeast (3068) and if it wasn't
cloudy, It was suggested to roll it gently across the table.

Hope that helps!

Daniel "Greenman" Griffin
Socorro, NM

- -- 
 .-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-.
 T. Daniel "Greenman" Griffin  
 "Knowledge is the herald of Sorrow" 
 "When it is dark enough, you can see the stars"
 Student/Spod/ANGSTer/Brother/SysAdmin  
'-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-'


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Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 04:08:13 -0800
From: John_E_Schnupp at amat.com
Subject: re: RIMS False Bottom for GOTT

>Do any of you GOTT RIMSers have a false bottom design that's
>particulary elegant, easy, cheap, etc?  An enquiring (though

I made mine from some SS screen with 1/8" holes.  I used SS screws
and nuts to make the legs.  The one thing I did was to cut the screen
slightly undersized and then cut slit in a length of poly tubing.
I wrapped this around the edge of the screen.  Provides a nice
tight fit and the rough edges of the screen don't cut into the
side of the cooler.

My outlet is a 3/8" NPT male fitting thru the original grommet.
On the outside of the cooler I used an oring and a female
fitting.  I haven't had any leaks.  There are several others
who have done similar things.  You'll find some good
descriptions on various web sites.

John Schnupp, N3CNL
Colchester, VT
95 XLH 1200




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Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 04:23:24 -0800
From: John_E_Schnupp at amat.com
Subject: re: Aluminum questions

>How did you get your fittings installed? Did you weld in a
>coupling? Did you use bulkhead fittings? Any specifics would be greatly
>appreciated.
>
>BTW, I'm getting a 60 qt for the mash/lauter tun, and an 80 qt for the
>boiler. The aluminum is 1 gauge (.281")

My pots are thinner (not sure of the exact gauge) but here's what I
did.  I drilled and tapped a 1/4" NPT hole about .5-1" up from the
bottom.  Your .281" thick should work great.

I soldered a bushing into a ball valve and tapped it as well.  I then
inserted a close nipple in the valve and soldered.  The valve assembly
was then screwed into the pot until it was good and tight.  In  my
set-up, there were enough threads protruding into the pot so that I
could attach a 1/4" NPT female to 3/8" compression fitting.

I've done this to a 32 qt pot (my former boiler, now hot water tank)
and a 60 qt pot (my boiler).  Never had a leak.  Just be sure you
don't strip the threads in the aluminum.  I did mail order some
solder that is lead/toxic metal free and is supposed to be able to
solder almost any metal except titanium.  I haven't tried it yet
but this might work either by itself or in addition to the threads.
I'd use it in addition to threading.  The threads would provide
the mechanical connection and the solder would seal any leaks.

John Schnupp, N3CNL
Colchester, VT
95 XLH 1200




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Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 06:00:33 -0800 (PST)
From: Mikey Beck <stilts121 at yahoo.com>
Subject: Old bay beer


>Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 09:44:56 -0500
>From: "Spies, Jay" <Spies at dhcd.state.md.us>
>Subject: Old Bay beer / flat beer

>All -

>Mikey Beck has the unmitigated temerity to call Old >Bay (seasoning
of the Gods) **RANCID** !!!  You shall >be immediately drawn and
quartered if you are caught >setting foot in Maryland . . .

Since you're not the only proud Marylander to suggest I be "drawn and
quartered" for calling Old Bay "rancid", I will have you know that I
do indeed live in Maryland, just outside of Bawlmer :^).  So
pbbbbbbbbbbttttttt :P

glad to be born and raised in Pittsburgh, PA, 
mikey.



_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free  at yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com



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Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 09:33:57 -0500
From: "Houseman, David L" <David.Houseman at unisys.com>
Subject: Miller Commercial

One of Miller's recent TV commericals comments on the powdered sugar on
the donut as just a layer of protection between the greese on the
mechanics fingers an his nutrition, going on to say that, hey even if
some of the grease on his fingers makes it to the donut, "that's just
flavor to a Miller man."  Well, I guess it had to come from somewhere
;-))   

Business week had an interesting article on Miller's frustrating and as
yet unrewarding attempt to gain market share.  A new plastic bottle.
Innovative TV advertizing (actually pretty entertaining).  Yet if they
just spend a little of what they spend on advertizing on additional malt
and hops....

Dave Houseman


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Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 9:34:56 -0500
From: randy.pressley at SLKP.COM
Subject: Glass Carboy Valve

I saw a picture in a magazine ad of a carboy with a valve attached on the 
bottom.
Has anyone tried to modify their carboy and attach a valve.  I'm 
interested
in how difficult it is to cut through the glass.  My thoughts were to cut
 a 
hole
big enough to attach one of those bottling bucket valves.  The tricky 
part
would be holding the nut from inside the carboy in order to tighten
the valve.  My hope is to avoid the bottling bucket and the siphon hose.
Also transfer into the secondary would be easier, not to mention getting
gravity readings without having to use a wine thief.


Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 09:34:59 -0500
From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu>
Subject: Re: flat beer

"Spies, Jay" <Spies at dhcd.state.md.us> writes that when bottling:

>I try to "steal" some of the yeast from the primary by
>siphoning off some of the primary cake.  I swirl the racking cane around
>in the primary to suck up a lot of the yeast, and usually don't end up
>taking more than a cup or so.

Yikes - a cup of yeast in 5 gallons?  I'm not worried about the flavor
contribution, but all the yeast in the bottom of the bottle spoils the
clear brew I've worked so hard to achieve.  While I mostly keg now, I do
still bottle.  I generally try to carry over as little yeast as possible,
and certainly don't try to get more from the primary of another brew.  I
want as little yeast on the bottom of the bottle as possible.  I generally
get no more than the thickness of a coat of paint.  Fining with gelatine
ehlps fi I'm in a hurry.  Then even a careless pour results in nearly clear
beer, and with a little care, I get no yeast at all, even after carrying
the bottles somewhere.

I've also never had a failure from dead yeast, including lagers.  It may
take a while, but they always carbonate.

Jeff

 -=-=-=-=-
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan c/o nerenner at umich.edu
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943. 




Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 09:57:57 -0500
From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu>
Subject: Re: Aluminum questions

William Graham <weg at rmi.net> asks:
>	So, does anyone have any experiences using aluminum that they
>would like to share?
>	How do you clean your pots?
>	How did you get your fittings installed? Did you weld in a
>coupling? Did you use bulkhead fittings? Any specifics would be greatly
>appreciated

I use three 10 gallon aluminum stockpots in a bottom fired RIMS.  I really
like them.  Mike O'Brien of picoBrew fitted them with bulkhead mounted
valves and fabricated copper false bottoms for the mash and boil kettle.
He used copper bushings and I have been concerned about electrolosis
between them and the aluminum kettle, but so far, so good.  I have cleaned
the boiler once in dozens of brews with Five Star cleaner (can't remember
the name).  Did a good job.   Otherwise, I use a nylon "chore-ball"-like
scrubber when I'm done brewing each time.

As Bill says, the big advantage of aluminum (other than cost) is heat
conductivity (10X that of SS, I read here many years ago).  That is also
its disadvantage, at least in a mash tun.  I've wrapped mine in aluminum
foil/plastic bubble wrap.  This works well, but the burner head does
eventually ruin the bubbles.  I've rewrapped mine once and it's about time
to do it again.  I'd guess it lasts maybe 15 brews, maybe a little more.

I've recently begun to use a 10 gallon Igloo for the sparge water, so I
really don't need the third kettle.  Folks have posted here in the past
that the Igloo is safe for hot liquids, and I've had no warping, but the
smell of the hot container after I'm done leaves me with some health
concerns.  I do wonder what kind of plasticizers or other nasties are being
leached into my sparge water.  It has no taste, but that's not infallible.

Jeff

 -=-=-=-=-
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan c/o nerenner at umich.edu
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943. 




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Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 09:20:36 -0600
From: "Bruce Garner" <bpgarner at mailbag.com>
Subject: Battle Creek, Kalamazoo, Holland, Grand Rapids, LaPorte & Hammond

The above cities are the destination for the Madison Homebrewers
and Tasters Guild as we take our yearly road trip this weekend.
The tentitive itinerary is below.
Hope that some of you "just west of Jeff Renner" types (Forrest and Eric
come to mind off the top of my head) can find the time to meet up with 
us and have a beer. We have tours going at many of the places we 
are visiting and can probably add you in.

Bruce Garner

Friday, November 20 
9:00 am - Depart Madison 
5:00 pm - Arcadia Brewing Co., Battle Creek 
7:00 pm - Olde Peninsula, Kalamazoo 
9:00 pm - Kraftbrau, Kalamazoo 
10:00 pm - Bell's Eccentric Cafe, Kalamazoo 

Saturday, November 21 

10:30 am - Roffey Brewing, (perhaps followed by New Holland) Holland
3:00 pm - Grand Rapids Brewing, Grand Rapids (tentative) 
5:00 pm - Bob's House of  Brews, Grand Rapids (club dinner) 
8:00 pm - Arena Brewing Tour

Other evening choices: Canal Street Brewing, Big Buck Brewing & Steakhouse 

Sunday, November 22 

11:00 am - Bell's Brewing, Kalamazoo 
11:00 am - Packers play Vikings 
1:00 pm - Back Road Brewery, LaPorte, IN 
3:00 pm - Three Floyds, Hammond, IN 




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Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 10:22:19 -0500
From: "Spies, Jay" <Spies at dhcd.state.md.us>
Subject: yeast suck-up clarification

All -

It's clear that I wasn't clear in my post about "stealing" yeast from
the primary for use at bottling.  I *meant* to say that I suck up a cup
of *liquid*, not a cup of *yeast*.  The amount of actual yeast is
probably no more than a few tablespoons full.  I've gotten several
puzzled replies, and figured a clarification wouldn't hurt.

Jay Spies
Wishful Thinking Basement Brewery
Baltimore, MD



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Date: Tue, 17 Nov 98 07:45 PST
From: caburns at egusd.k12.ca.us (Charley Burns)
Subject: How to make a Bock from a Doppelbock

How to make a Bock from a Doppelbock

Or, Stupid Brewer Trick #134. The day was fantastic, 55 degrees, sparkling 
blue sky, very light breeze and the mountains white with their first good 
snowstorm of the year. I was set to once again brew the Dopplebock that did 
so well last year in competitions. I had taken very detailed notes from that 
brew (assisted by Brian S) so I was very hopeful that duplicating the batch 
was possible.

Everything went as planned, got the grains measured and milled, mashtun 
heated up, strike water heated up and nailed the 138F protein rest. Pulled 
first decoction, took it up to saccarification  at  158F, rested 40 minutes and 
boiled it for 20. If you've never done a decoction - do it. The aromas of 
boiling grain that has been mashed at 158F are incredibly heavenly. Dropped 
the boiled grains back into the rest mash and nailed 159F - perfect.

Heated and treated to PH 5.75 6 gallons of sparge water. Took second 
decoction and boiled it 15 minutes, once again heavenly aromas. Back to the 
rest mash and hit 165F. Its too good to be true, the brew is going perfect! 
So, why not, have a couple of homebrews with lunch. Started at 9:30 am and 
its 1:00 now, ready to start sparging. Re-circulated a gallon before wort 
ran cool. Boiling grains really blows them apart and it takes quite a while 
to set the grain bed.

Now for the slowest sparge I have ever done, took 1 hour and 15 minutes. The 
brew smells so good I can hardly contain myself. But, I'm worried. This 
looks like its really strong. I was targeting 1.090-1.095 for an original 
gravity. So I stirred up the 7.5 gallons of wort and then took a reading. 
1.093! Oh my god, wayyyy too strong, it'll boil down to 1.116! I quickly did 
some more math and decided to take 1 gallon out and replace it with 1 gallon 
of water. 

So I go into my 90 minute boil, everything is progressing fine, hops and 
Irish Moss go in on time and I chill it down to 68F. After settling it goes 
into the primary along with a 1 quart starter of Wyeast 2308 and I pull a 
sample from the kettle as it goes. 1.077! Huh? What happened? Here's the 
stupid part. Even though I had stirred the wort to take my pre-boil sample, 
I have a false bottom in my kettle to catch the hops. The wort UNDERNEATH 
the false bottom never got stirred up into the wort at the top. When I took 
the sample, I took it from my kettle spigot at the BOTTOM. All the first 
runnings wort, the absolutely strongest, was under the false bottom, causing 
the sample to be totally wrong.

So now I have a bock, instead of a dopplebock bubbling away in the primary. 
Oh well. In two weeks when the primary is finished, I'll have one helluva 
yeast starter for a 1.091 dopplebock which I will try again.

I did take that 1 gallon of heavy wort and mix it with some second runnings 
and made a half batch of 1.040 spiced holiday ale too. So it wasn't a total 
loss anyway.

Charley (a few mile west of Jack) brewing just down from the snowline in N.Cal



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Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 10:26:03 EST
From: AlannnnT at aol.com
Subject: Zymurgy and Nottingham

Andrew Stavrolakis wrote..I haven't read the Zymurgy article rapping dry
yeasts, but I have used Nottingham extensively to brew *many* different types
of beer and have found it to be very predictable in its performance.

Andrew, did you notice that the Zymurgy article stated that the sample beers
were all shaken in transport to the tastings? The authors concede that the
tasted samples were turbid (my word-not theirs) because the corny kegs of beer
samples did not have time to settle after transport to the tasting site. That
makes all the rest of the article useless. Can you discredit a beer yeast for
being "yeasty" after you stir up the yeast? 

Perhaps the next time, a little (prior, ha) planning will help make the
results more reliable.

Just my opinion,

Alan Talman
East Northport, NY



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Date: Tue, 17 Nov 98 10:21:06 CST
From: jwilkins at wss.dsccc.com (John Wilkinson)
Subject: NPT/MPT

AlK wrote:

>I made a copper NPT (national pipe thread, despite hundreds of books
>saying otherwise, "MPT" is an incorrect acronym) nut by cutting a
>copper MPT-to-brasing fitting.

Which is it? First he said MPT was incorrect and then wrote MPT-to-brasing.
A typo, I suspect.
Interesting note, though.  Last night I was in an ACE Hardware store buying
some fittings and noticed they had packages of fittings marked MPT and FPT
for male and female NPT fittings.
It seems they don't know either.  Or do they?

John Wilkinson - Grapevine, Texas - jwilkins at wss.dsccc.com


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Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 08:59:46 -0800
From: John Palmer <jjpalmer at gte.net>
Subject: Re: Brass and Lead

Bill asks if a study has ever been done to examine whether lead is
re-exposed or leached from brass fittings after many batches.

To the best of my knowledge - No.
I suppose we should get some Lead Detection swabs and swab our parts and
see if any lead is detected.  I can think of several parts I have that
were de-leaded several years ago and have seen a lot of use since.  I
will try to remember to test them.

I am not worried about it because of the compatibility of wort and
brass/copper alloys.  In addition, the amount of lead in a brass fitting
is small. Less than 7% in all alloys that we would be using, some as low
as 3%.  Think about it.  If you have 100 grams of fittings, you have
less than 7 grams of lead, of which you are only exposing the surface
area of the part for dissolution. You would have to calculate the
surface area of all the fittings and figure the volume percent of the
lead phase (less than wt%) and determine how much you are ingesting
based on dissolution rate.  It is going to be tiny.

But you are right, this question should probably be answered
definitively.
John Palmer
metallurgist
jjpalmer at realbeer.com
Monrovia, CA



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Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 11:10:25 -0600
From: rlabor at lsumc.edu (LaBorde, Ronald)
Subject: RE: Aluminum questions

>>>>
	How did you get your fittings installed? Did you weld in a
coupling? Did you use bulkhead fittings? Any specifics would be greatly
appreciated.
<<<<

I never weld.  I know most do, but why?  I like to fabricate bulkhead
fittings - or really just use various fittings in combinations that achieve
a bulkhead fitting.

Once welded, always welded.  Also, the welding can cause sanitary problems,
rusting problems, etc.. !!-SHIELDS UP SCOTTY-!!.
I like to experiment and be able to make changes and this gives me the
flexibility to do that.  I can remove everything if I want to do a thorough
cleaning.

Ron

Ronald La Borde - Metairie, Louisiana - rlabor at lsumc.edu



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Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 11:39:42 -0600
From: ThE GrEaT BrEwHoLiO <skotrat at wwa.com>
Subject: Thanks To Pat and Karl

Hi all, 

About two years ago some of you may remember the the AOB/AHA was killing the
HBD. The end of this great resource was surely doomed if something was not
done to save it. 

Well anyway, I suggested to Pat that he was the only sucker errrr I mean
brewer that could really do it justice by taking it over and saving it from
the sure untimely death that my buddies at the AOB/AHA were giving it. 

Pat contacted the OEONLINE people and somehow suckered the already over
worked/underpaid/rarely thanked and all around great guy named Karl Lutzen
to go along with the idea of saving the HBD.

To make a really long story short these guys brought back the HBD to what it
was... A great free brewing resource for all to enjoy.

Being that the 2 year mark is right around now I personally wanted to say

THANK YOU PAT AND KARL FOR ALL YOUR EFFORTS AND UN-ENDING HARD WORK!!!

The entire Homebrew community owes you's bumbs a great big thanks.

Hats off to you guys... 

I will now return to my normal grumpy plaid loving self...

C'ya!!!

 -Scott "Geesh I am tearing up on me Kilt!" Abene




ThE-HoMe-BrEw-RaT
Scott Abene <skotrat at mediaone.net>
http://skotrat.dynip.com/skotrat (the Homebrew "Beer Slut" page)

"The More I know About Cathy Ewing, The More The AHA SUCKS"



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Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 13:36:24 EST
From: MaltHound at aol.com
Subject: re: Chill haze and RIMS

In HBD 2877 Charles Beaver said:

<>

Charles,
I noticed a very similar pattern when I first switched to a RIMS system.  It
might be the mash-out that is the culprit.  My theory is that by raising the
mash temperature to 170 deg F you may be liberating more starch and protein at
a temperature that the enzymes are no longer able to deal with them.  After a
few hazey batches I loweredc my mashout temp to ~160 deg F and are more
careful to sparge at a bit lower temp.

Of course, YMMV
Regards,
Fred Wills
Londonderry, NH


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Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 13:50:29 -0500
From: "Bayer, Mark A (Boeing)" <BayerMA at navair.navy.mil>
Subject: stokes flow - fact or fiction?/isinglass preparation/old bay/wyea

collective homebrew conscience:

paul wrote:

>Scott references "stokes flow".

>From the CRC Handbook of Chemistry and Physics:"Stokes Law: Gives 
>the rate of fall of a small sphere in a viscous fluid. When a small 
sphere 
>falls under the action of gravity through a viscous medium, it 
ultimately 
>aquires a constant velocity." Clearly, this has nothing to do with the 
flow

>of a liquid (such as wort)through a porous medium (such as a grain 
bed). 
>It may, however apply to dropping a rubber gromet into a batch of high 

>gravity beer ;). Also,Stokes has nothing to do with the Reynolds 
number. 

actually, it is reynolds number that defines stokes flow.  for some 
good
pictures of stokes flow, check out An Album of Fluid Motion, Van Dyke,
Milton, The Parabolic Press, Stanford, Calif., 1982. 

also, i never got a response to the isinglass preparation question.  
i'm
still mystified, if anybody has any advice.

regarding old bay:  being a recent transplant to southern maryland, i 
am a
big fan of the ubiquitous blend.  celery salt seems to be the 
overriding
flavor, but there's a lot of pepper and paprika also.

in michael jackson's beer companion book, he writes that one of the 
most
memorable meals of his life was a peppery crab feast in a brewpub in
baltimore that was accompanied by.......irish dry stout.  the 
pepperiness
was undoubtedly from old bay or a close imitator.  jackson writes that, 
at
first thought, this seems an unlikely combination, but given the 
excellent
pairing of oysters and dry stout, it's not too much of a leap to 
believe
that whatever it is about dry stout that accentuates the taste of 
oysters
could do the same for the flavors in blue crab.

for michael jackson to say it was one of the most memorable meals of 
his
life, that's a strong statement.  this guy has probably tasted a 
broader
selection of authentic cuisine than all but a few on the planet.
(supporters of old bay rejoice).

unfortunately, i'm due to move back to st louis in the spring, and blue 
crab
will be out of season until then.  i never tried stout with blue crab.  
:-(

my klschbier came out of the 7 gallon carboy this morning.  i've 
never had
to use a blowoff with a 7 gallon carboy before.  wyeast 1007 - temp in 
room
68 deg f.  truly a top fermenter, from the amount of yeast blown out.

brew hard,

mark bayer
great mills, md
*south* of jeff renner by a good piece, i reckon

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Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 18:14:27 -0500
From: "David R. Burley" <Dave_Burley at compuserve.com>
Subject: flavor not foot, low malt beer

Brewsters:

Donald Breistle and Ted Major insist on interpreting Wurz
as foot,base,source etc. Breistle now suggests that perhaps it
Derives from the German word for value.

Wurz is German for foot of a mountain, and the like, as indicated.
WUrz ( with an umlaut over the u ) is the German word for wort.
WUrz (umlaut)  has a meaning like spice, flavoring, zest and
malt liquor when applied to beer making. Wine drinkers will
know this as a component word in the grape and wine named
GewUrztraminer -"SpicedTraminer"- to describe the taste. 


It does not derive from "wert' - German for worth or value.
- -----------------------------------------------------------------
The Wall Street Journal; today (Monday) had an article on a
new low-malt beverage ( called Buddy) that Bud is introducing
into Japan.  It has introduced a competitor in the beer style called
Haposhu which has much lower malt ( like 24%) and Bud's has
higher alcohol (6%) than competing low malt beverages on the
order of 5 to 5.5%.  Normal beer in Japan has to have at least
66.7% malt to be called "beer". Haposhu means
"sparkling alcohol drink."  This low malt beverage is being sold
since it can be made from lower cost ingredients (beans, millet, rice
and a barnyard grass calle "hie") and has a lower price in these
restrained economic times in Japan.  The price?  a 12 oz can sells
for $1.20 versus $1.80 for beer! Yeah, per can.

This is the first time Bud has ever brewed a beer different
from their mainline brew.  The reason says A-B "We're
trying to cater to a diverse market"  Yeah right.

Bud hopes to up their market share in the market to
1.2% from its current 1% and to be at 3-4% by the year 2002
( the year that spokesman obviously retires)

Pass the Zima!

Keep on brewin'


Dave Burley
Kinnelon, NJ 07405
103164.3202 at compuserve.com
Dave_Burley at compuserve.com  

Voice e-mail OK 


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Date: Tue, 17 Nov 98 16:17 PST
From: caburns at egusd.k12.ca.us (Charley Burns)
Subject: Sparging temperature

"Gregory M. Remake" <gremake at gsbalum.uchicago.edu> asks about sparging temps 
in hbd 2877:

I've found some contradictory information regarding proper sparging
temperature.  I understand that to avoid tannin extraction (assuming an
appropriate pH), I don't want the grains to reach a temperature much above
170F.  Many sources state this as the reason to heat sparge water no higher
than 170F.  However, other sources maintain that due to thermal losses, one
may use sparge water near boiling temperatures and never raise the grain
bed above 170F (assuming a properly slow flow rate).<snip>...

Yes, there are lots of different recommendations on this. I read in George 
Fix's notes (either Vienna book or the 40/60/70 article) that he recommended 
sparging at about 160F. The last few batches I've been keeping my eye on 
what my grain bed temperatures are throughout the sparge. Frankly they don't 
change much at all and it doesn't matter if the sparge water is 185F down to 
170F. My last batch was a double decoction and the grain bed hit 165F dead 
on with the second (mashout) decoction. I sparge for 1 hour and 15 minutes 
and the grain bed never changed a single degree. Started with 185F water and 
it was 170F by the time the hour was over.

One point, I never let the grain bed run dry anymore. I always heat up 1 or 
2 extra gallons of sparge water and keep and even flow the entire time. I do 
this because the first time I did it by accident, it resulted in a very nice 
clean, nearly trooooob free wort. If you've ever watched the clear tubing 
from your mashtun as the grain bed runs dry you'll see that your clear wort 
all of a sudden gets filled with chunks of grain as the water runs out.

Charley (oversparging) about 2,000 miles west of Jeff, 2200 miles west of 
Al, 3,000 miles west of Dave B, 30 miles east of Dave Sapsis, 29 miles south 
of Martin Lodahl, 90 miles north of Randy, 60 miles east of Brian Gros, 70 
miles east of Fritz Maytag, 20 miles north of Dave Brattstrom and on my way 
to Las Vegas for 24 hours of Comdex.



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Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 19:17:17 EST
From: RMerid7682 at aol.com
Subject: O2 gauge & corona mill

Hello all
 
Someone picked up an oxygen gauge and asked if it will fit a CO2 tank. Gauges
will usually only fit one type gas cylinder. But they can maybe be refitted to
fit. The stem with the large nut on it is different. They can possibly be
changed to one that fits. Do you have a friendly local welding supply shop?
Take in and talk to them,  they will usually tell you if it will work or can
be made to work. Sometimes they may have a used gauge that you can trade in on
if yours can't be made to work.
You can get a hose barb to screw on the small fitting for your CO2 line to the
keg in the size to fit you CO2 line.

Someone else asked about setting up a Corona mill. Check Miller's "The
Complete Handbook of Home Brewing". Basically turn in adjustment screw until
until you can feel it touch the ball bearing and beginning to push the outer
plate towards the inner one. Back off one full turn and tighten wingnut. Crush
a cup of malt and look at it. If the crush is too coarse, tighten another 1/2
turn. Or vice versa too fine a crush. Crush another cup. Check and fine tune.

Roger Meridith
Decatur,IL


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Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 19:37:04 EST
From: SRNagley at aol.com
Subject: Another Belgian Ale problem

	Hello all,
   I'm a first time poster although I've been lurking for a while.
  A recent problem I've experienced and a similar one to Dean
  Fikar's has driven me to post. Although, I'm a recent convert
  to all-grain brewing (2 batches so far), the problem involves my
  last extract brew, a Belgian Tripel.
    The beer started at 1.084 SG and I pitched what I thought was
  plenty of starter (the entire slury from a previous batch of lower
  gravity Belgian Ale). It did sit in my fridge in a quart jar for 2-3
  weeks before making the starter for the tripel. The brew took off
  within a couple of hours after being aerated by pouring back and
  forth between my boiling kettle and a plastic pail.
    The beer fermented for about 8 days in my basement at somewhat
  cooler temps (65F) than I had expected. I also realized that I had 
  somewhat more than 5 gals in my 6 1/2 gal primary carboy, so when
  I racked to secondary I was prepared with a gal wine jug for the
  extra volume. Both of these bottles were kept in the same area of my
  basement at the same temps. I actually moved them closer to a space
  heater because I thought the temp may have been a littler too cool.
    Anyway, without making this any longer than it already is, the 1/2
  gallon or so in the small jug cleared like a charm and after 3 1/2 weeks
  the 5 gallon main batch is as cloudy as the day it was racked. I checked
  the gravity on both and the one in the 1 gal jug is 1.010 - the other 1.020!
  There doesn't appear to be any activity.
     I'm at a loss for why this happened and am wondering what I should
  do now - pitch more yeast? - add some kind of finings and bottle anyway?
  The brew was one of the simplest I've made - 9 lbs. of DME, 1 lb candi
  sugar and 1 lb of table sugar, lightly hopped - oh, and the yeast I used
  was Wyeast Abbey II (1762). Any help would be greatly appreciated.

      Steve Nagley
      Old Forge, PA - that's NE PA
      brewing in the heart of coal country


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Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 20:17:16 -0500
From: "Thomas Kramer" <tkramer at monad.net>
Subject: Fw: gas on fire


- -----Original Message-----
From: Thomas Kramer <tkramer at monad.net>
To: post@hbd.com <post@hbd.com>
Date: Tuesday, November 17, 1998 8:09 PM
Subject: gas on fire


>while I guess this is tom 2 cents on fire safety.  Today I was brewing a,
>all grain Belgium ale. Every thing was going fine my grains were mashing,
>while I had my sparge water heating outside on my propane cooker, all of a
>sudden I hear the noise from the propane surged, I look outside and I saw a
>big fire ball.  Some how my propane tank had caught on fire, there were
>flames everywhere on the tank, on the line from the tank to the burner, it
>look like it might blow up any time. Luckily I had a fire extinguisher near
>by, and I sprayed the thing down and it put the fire out.  The regulator,
>and gas line was melted through, and now there was yellow chemicals
>everywhere.  I am not shure were the leak came from, but I know one thing I
>was glad I was near by and that I had a fire extinguisher, and also I only
>lost my sparge water not my beer.  From now on I will always do a soapy
>water leak check before I use my cooker, and will never leave a cooker
>unattended, and I will always have a extinguisher near by.
>
>Tom,, Keene, NH
>



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Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 22:11:08 -0500
From: Herbert Bresler <bresler.7 at osu.edu>
Subject: reply to: "Regulators" from HBD#2877

In HBD#2877 Andrew Stavrolakis asked about the gas regulator he bought cheap:

Andrew,

Sorry, the regulator you bought is intended for oxygen and almost certainly
has the wrong fitting on it -- it won't mate with a CO2 tank.  The fittings
are made different for different gasses (to avoid mix-ups).  Also, the
second stage (to 150 psi) is probably too coarse for proper regulation of
CO2.  You really want better control of your CO2 (to within 0.5-1.0 psi).

On the bright side, you already have a regulator for oxygenating your wort.

Good luck and good brewing,
Herb
Bexley (Columbus), Ohio




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Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 14:21:02 +1100
From: David lamotte <lamotted at ozemail.com.au>
Subject: Re: Pressure sparging

ShoCKValue (AKA Pete Santerre) wrote: 
<snip>

< This got me to thinking - (Uh oh)
<
<Would it be possible to put in an 'easy masher' type pickup on the
<end of the 'Out' line in a corney keg and use this to do a 
< pressurized mash?

</snip>

I doubt if any of us have mashed as you describe, but I do have one
datapoint on using a corny as a hop back after the boil which may be
relevant.  I simply fitted a stainless 'scrubby' to the end of the
'out' dip tube and threw in my handfull of whole hops.  I then let the
hot wort run into the keg instead of putting it through my counterflow
chiller.

It worked great BTW, and not only filtered as required, but imparted
the delicious hop aroma that I was seeking.  

But I had the following problems, and I believe that you would face
the same issues with your setup.

1. It took forever (1 hour actually) to run 22 litres through, even
though I was using ~ 50 PSI of CO2.  The scrubby just packed solid
with all the trub.  I would expect a squishy (pronounced like SQUEEGY
but with a fISH sound in the middle) mash would compact even more.

2. Due to the high liquid temperature, it pretty much ruined all the
rubber parts on the keg.

While I don't know for sure, I expect that the mash filters used to
make industrial beer would gently squeeze the mash over a large
surface area so as to avoid totally pulverising it.


David Lamotte
Brewing Down Under in Newcastle N.S.W. Australia
Just a few quick keystrokes from Jeff Renner, wherever he may be.



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Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 11:22:48 -0500
From: Bret Morrow <bret.morrow at mci2000.com>
Subject: Re: Power Sparging

Pete asked about using CO2 pressure to "power sparge."  Randy Mosher had
a design in Zymurgy, Vol 17, number 2, page 29.  It is a real nice
design.  The only concern I have is the location of the wort uptake
manifold in the mash keg--it is a 6" piece of 1.5 inch (who cares how
many cm!) copper pipe with slots of holes drilled into it.  The
potential problem I see is that the upper most slots or holes are at
least 6.5-7 inches off the bottom of the corny keg.  It may or may not
be important.

Pete,  I was just going to e-mail you, because everyone else reads
Zymurgy!  ;->

Bret Morrow
Johnson Brewing



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---