---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com


Contents:
  Why Make Zima, anyway???? (Rod Prather)
  cap on foam / headspace (MaltHound)
  D-rest and keggers/bottlers (Dan Cole)
  Ballantine IPA (LLOM)" <LLOM at chevron.com>
  Gott/Rubbermaid Coolers ("Penn, John")
  A welcoming HBD (Jeff Renner)
  Re: slamming the AHA and anyone else (Jeff Renner)
  RE: : Help save my marriage! (LaBorde, Ronald)
  Re: Oxidation/AHA bashing ("Spies, Jay")
  DWV Help (Kyle_Druey)
  Anniversaries and such... (David Luckie)
  Re: PA Brewpubs <Dying> (PRS) - CPC" <PRS at NA2.US.ML.COM>
  Using a keg as a bottling vessel (Richard Johnson)
  Hey Charlie, post again, if you can ignore the moronic vitriol (NEWTRADBC)
  Oud Bruin (Christopher "R." Hebert)
  calculating pressure drop in a cooling coil ("Czerpak, Pete")
  Re:  Help save my marriage! ... an alternative. ("S. Wesley")
  storing stored yeast (Scott Murman)
  scorchmaster (Al Korzonas)
  1 gallon batches (Badger Roullett)
  Beer in CO2 regulator ("Michael Maag")
  Nasty People and such ("Rick Wood")
  Amen.  Stop slamming those with whom you disagree. ("Richard Scott")


Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy!

//////
(This space free to a good competition)
//////

NOTE NEW HOMEBREW ADDRESS:  hbd.org 

Send articles for __publication_only__ to post@hbd.org

If your e-mail account is being deleted, please unsubscribe first!!

To SUBSCRIBE or UNSUBSCRIBE send an e-mail message with the word
  "subscribe" or "unsubscribe" to request@hbd.org. 
**SUBSCRIBE AND UNSUBSCRIBE REQUESTS MUST BE SENT FROM THE E-MAIL
  ACCOUNT YOU WISH TO HAVE SUBSCRIBED OR UNSUBSCRIBED!!!**
IF YOU HAVE SPAM-PROOFED your e-mail address, the autoresponder and
  the SUBSCRIBE/UNSUBSCRIBE commands will fail!

Contact brewery at hbd.org for information regarding the "Cat's Meow"

Back issues are available via:

  HTML from...
        http://hbd.org
  Anonymous ftp from...
	ftp://hbd.org/pub/hbd/digests
	ftp://ftp.stanford.edu/pub/clubs/homebrew/beer
  AFS users can find it under...
        /afs/ir.stanford.edu/ftp/pub/clubs/homebrew/beer

COPYRIGHT for the Digest as a collection is currently held by hbd.org 
  (Pat Babcock and Karl Lutzen). Digests in their entirity CANNOT be 
  reprinted/reproduced without this entire header section unless 
  EXPRESS written permission has been obtained from hbd.org.
COPYRIGHT for individual posts within each Digest is held by the
  author. Articles cannot be extracted from the Digest and
  reprinted/reproduced without the EXPRESS written permission of the
  author. The author and HBD must be attributed as author and source
  in any such reprint/reproduction. (Note: QUOTING of items 
  originally appearing in the Digest in a subsequent Digest is 
  exempt from the above.)

JANITORS on duty: Pat Babcock and Karl Lutzen (janitor@hbd.org)


----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Mon, 07 Dec 1998 06:15:03 -0500
From: Rod Prather <rodpr at iquest.net>
Subject: Why Make Zima, anyway????

        For all who care (god knows why), Puyallup IS pronounced PEW-ALL-UP
or even PEW-ALL-IP and not PULL Yall up.  Also as a side note, why would
you want to make Zima?  While whe're at it let's make some Old English 800
too.

I like great beer, I kinda like Zima on occasion, too.  It;s clean, sweet
and refreshing.  Kind of reminds me of a gin 'n' tonic.  Great for a hot
summer day.  We also have some women who would take a Zima LONG before they
would even consider a finely brewed porter or an Amber Ale.  Besides, for
what it is, look at the price of Zima.  It costs as much in the stores as
most of the craft brewed beers yet it has almost none of the style and
technique.  Why not LOTs cheaper.  Just 7up made with clear beer and almost
no hops.

How do they get it clear, anyway?  Do they use an RO filter after the
primary filter?






Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 07:31:47 EST
From: MaltHound at aol.com
Subject: cap on foam / headspace

Warning:  I am not a professional brewer.  I don't even play one at home!

The way I understand it (from all of that reading that I do<g>), "cap on foam"
is a technique used when packaging already carbonated beer.  The bottling
machine squirts a small, precise quantity of sterile water into the pre-filled
bottle to generate the desired amount of foam.  Then the machine quickly
crimps a crown cap on the bottle before the foam recedes.  I imagine that the
manufacturer would have to slightly overcarbonate the beer to compensate for
the small amount of CO2 lost in the process.  Also, a small amount of dilution
would take place due to the added water.

As George de Piro suggested in his post, there are a lot of *other* ways for
air to get into homebrew during handling, priming and packaging.  My opinion
is that, for bottle conditioned beers at least, the ~1" of headspace produced
by the extraction of a standard springy tip bottling wand is of insignificant
consequence to the oxidation of the beer.  I have seen no problems with beer
storage / stability using the "normal" technique.  Some things are just not
worth worrying about. 

OTOH, for any beer that is filtered, pasteurized, or otherwise nonliving it
would seem to make a great deal of sense to eliminate any and all O2 in the
headspace.   ...just like the commercial guys do!

Fred Wills
Londonderry, NH



Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 07 Dec 1998 08:51:37 -0500
From: Dan Cole <dcole at roanoke.infi.net>
Subject: D-rest and keggers/bottlers

Fred Wills takes me to task for suggesting that homebrewers that keg may be
more well-read than those that bottle condition.  

I don't want to turn this into a "bottlers are less advanced than keggers",
so let me publicly state that I meant no offense (I myself only bottle
condition and have no short-term plans to move to kegs). 

However, whether keggers are better-read than bottlers, I still stand by my
statement as a possible explanation of the D-rest phenomenon. Those that
keg may need a D-rest (because they don't let their beers sit at room
temperature) and those that bottle condition may not need a D-rest (because
of their 2 weeks+ at room temperature), and this theory may explain the
different flavors that many people experience with the same yeast. 

Anyone have any experience that would validate/invalidate this idea? Can
anyone dig around in their notes and see if they ever brewed a lager (with
a yeast that is a known diacetyl producer), didn't do a D-rest, bottle
conditioned half the batch and kegged the other half? Any diacetyl
differences?

Dan Cole
Roanoke, VA
Star City Brewers' Guild: http://hbd.org/starcity/



Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 06:48:52 -0800 
From: "O'mahoney, Larry (LLOM)" <LLOM at chevron.com>
Subject: Ballantine IPA

Since many of you have been waxing nostalgic about "old" styles, CAPs and
krausening, I think I'll add a little grist to your discussion mills. For
quite some time, I'd been looking for a recipe to duplicate Ballantine IPA,
an almost legendary beer (and sponsor of the N.Y. Yankees for many years)
brewed in Newark, N.J. After some electronic poking around, I was fortunate
enough to receive a recipe from Jeff Renner.

I modified Jeff's recipe a little, mostly because I only had 6 lbs. of 6-row
and 1.5 lbs. of corn sugar.

Ingredients for 5 gallons		Jeff		My Brew

6 row pale ale malt			6.7 lb.		6.0 lb.
Light crystal (50-60 L)		0.75 lb.		0.75 lb. (10 L)
Flaked Maize				1.9 lb.		2.0 lb.
Corn Sugar					2.6 lb.		1.5 lb.

Hops
Bittering: Bullion or Tettanger	1.4 oz.		1.4 oz.
Flavor:	Cluster					1.4 oz.		1.4 oz.
Aroma:	Saaz					0.5 oz.		0.5 oz.
Dry hop:Saaz						---		0.25
oz.

Bitter to 40-60 IBU. Hop additions were somewhat improvised. I didn't know
how to partition the bullion and tettanger hops for the bittering, so I used
0.7 oz. of each. Using the Garetz method I ended up with 43 IBU calculated.
I put a very hard crush on the 6 row, and mixed all the grains with 1.2
quarts/lb. in the mash. I added two tsp. gypsum to the mash, as I have
extremely soft water. The step infusion was 126 degF/15 min. 153 degF/45
min. 158 degF/10 min. 165 degF/10 min. The sparge effluent was the most
beautiful, deep golden color I've ever had. The effluent cleared after less
than a cup (I use an Easymasher in a 5 gallon SS pot.) The sparge was
incredibly easy. I don't know why so many people knock 6-row pale malt. It
is great stuff.

I boiled for 70 minutes adding the Bullion/Tettanger for 60 minutes, the
Cluster with 20 minutes to go, Saaz with 5 minutes to go. OG = 1.069  at  60
degF. I used Wyeast 1098, figuring it would probably be closer to
traditional British IPA yeasts than Wyeast 1056, although Jeff recommended
1056 as the proper yeast used by Ballantine's. I dry-hopped after seven
days, as several references I have indicate Ballantine was "dramatically"
dry hopped. After two weeks of single-stage fermenting at 65 degF (FG= 1.012
 at  60 degF) I bottled using 5 PrimaTabs/22 oz. bottle (I calculated this to
be equal to about 3 oz. priming sugar per 5 gallons).

After a week in the bottle, I couldn't wait any longer. Excellent
carbonation (maybe too much), clearing nicely, great white head, and a bead
and Belgian lace that lasted over an hour. At this stage the taste could be
described as raw, muscular. After only one week it was "green" as expected.
After three weeks, it has mellowed well. It has a complex flavor profile.
First, there is a good clean, strong bitterness, followed by a very strong
Cluster flavor. Next, a pleasant but subdued Saaz flavor and aroma. All
these are underlain by a mild caramel flavor, probably from the crystal.
Normally, I don't care for caramel flavor in my beer, but this was good. If
you don't like Cluster flavor, this is not the beer for you. It is very
alcoholic (calculation ~ 7.1% ABV). Twelve oz. of this beer had me looped!

It's been decades since I had a commercial Ballantine's, but the moment I
tasted this IPA it struck a faint memory from somewhere deep in my mind,
which makes me think that this is a very close rendition of the original
Ballantine. I'm quite pleased with the results so far. If I were to make any
changes, I'd increase the 6-row to the original 6.75 lbs., and drop the
protein rest to 10 minutes. Fifteen minutes was too much for long-lasting
head retention. I'd maybe decrease the amount of Cluster flavor hops by
half. The bitterness was very clean, and did not display any of the black
current flavors many have associated with Bullion hops.

If there are any former Ballantine brewmasters lurking around out there, I'd
enjoy your comments on this, to see if I've gotten close to what you used to
brew.

BTW, since making the Ballantine's, I've made a CAP again using 6-row malt.
This really is great grain. Beautiful color, super easy sparge and the
flavor is fine.

Larry
New Orleans


Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 10:02:40 -0500 
From: "Penn, John" <John.Penn at jhuapl.edu>
Subject: Gott/Rubbermaid Coolers

	One off-season source for Gott/Rubbermaid coolers is
walmart.com.  I got a 5 gallon for about $21 plus $5 shipping.  A 10
gallon was about $37.  Check their latest prices.  As for the person
wanting to do 10 gallon batches and wanting a 15 gallon cooler, wouldn't
a 10 gallon cooler be big enough?  By the time you sparge you would
certainly get more than 10 gallons of runoff.  Also the poster on
no-sparge and getting a mere 40% efficiency, you didn't mention how
thick your mash was.  Was it 1.25qt/# or what?  I've been using 0.5qt/#
as just the residual water left in the grains so if you do a no-sparge
you will probably see a big difference in efficiency if your mash varies
from a mere 1qt/# versus 2qt/#.  At 1qt/# you are already leaving half
of your extracted sugar in the residual water left in the grains.  As
for me, the 5 gallon size is just right since I'm using an electric
stove still for heating and would need a cooker and larger pot to take
advantage of a 10 gallon cooler.
   John Penn


Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 09:38:19 -0500
From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu>
Subject: A welcoming HBD

John Adsit <jadsit at jeffco.k12.co.us> wrote:
>Those of you who are
>experienced brewers may ask this questions: do you think new readers of
>this list will feel as welcome as Paul and Brian made this beginner
>feel?  Do you see in this list the same communal friendliness that
>invited me to commit myself to home brewing?

(The last sentence seems like we're talking religious experience ;-)  )
This is a matter that's been on my mind for some time.  I think that in
general we are a friendly bunch of people, but a related question arises -
are we too involved with advanced homebrewing techniques such as all grain,
RIMS, kegging and so on to remember to welcome beginners and answer their
questions?  Do we get so involved with this as to seem an exclusive club
not interested in fostering the growth of this great hobby, which will only
occur with new brewers and their limited beginning skills.  I'm concerned
that there are fewer of these beginners and their questions on HBD.  In one
way this has resulted in a higher level of discussion.  But I second John's
concern - we need to welcome beginners and answer their questions, even
though we might not find them as intellectually challenging as our usual
discussions of 240v neutral wires (a gentle bit of fun, here, but no
criticism - I finally understand 240!).

Jeff

 -=-=-=-=-
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan c/o nerenner at umich.edu
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943. 




Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 10:19:44 -0500
From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu>
Subject: Re: slamming the AHA and anyone else

John Adsit <jadsit at jeffco.k12.co.us> asked about the reason for the strong
anti-AHA feelings.  This is my recollection of the history, which may not
be complete or entirely accurate (my apologies for inaccuracies), but it is
at least, I hope, dispassionate and reasoned.

There have been several factors in this.  AHA  and Charlie Papazian have
been perceived, and rightly so, IMNSHO, as having become isolated from and
uninterested in rank and file brewers.  Charlie is pulling down well over
100 grand a year from AHA/AOB, and for what?  I think he's sitting on his
laurels.  This is way more than most CEOs of a similar sized non-profit
make, and he seems to be less involved in the actual running of the
organization than would be expected for this kind of money.  AHA/AOB has
also refused to make its non-profit financial report to IRS public for
several years - some members have had to get it from the IRS at personal
expense and make it public.  This is how we found out where the money is
going.  Seems like a member-driven non-profit ought to be more forthcoming
and have nothing to hide.  The board of directors until recently has been
appointed by Charlie and are responsible to him, not members.  AHA/AOB was
unresponsive to criticisms of this type, and seemed to stonewall and adopt
a siege mentality.

Then, maybe three years ago, the longtime manager of our beloved HBD was
transferred overseas had to give it up, and it looked like we were going to
lose it.  AHA/AOB picked it up (this certainly seemed like a natural for
it) and put it on its server, but screwed up incredibly, and nearly killed
it from lack of technical know-how, resources and committment and then from
neglect.  It was a close thing when Pat Babcock and Karl Lutzen stepped up
and rescued it with help from other organizations and individuals.  All
hail Pat and Karl!

Recently AHA/AOB has had some people who have been more interested in being
involved with members and HBD than previous employees have been, but it
still seems to many to be a poorly run and distant organization.  I hope it
becomes the responsive, relevant and efficient organization it has publicly
said it would.  The BofD will be elected by members, at least.  What power
they might have is still unclear.

I think that homebrewing as it is today owes as huge debt to Charlie and
AHA for their contributions at the beginning of the growth of this hobby
during the late 70's and 80's.  I was brewing back then and know how hard
it was to get good information.  I still have an early typewritten, thin
"Joy of Homebrewing."  That and Dave Line's "Big Book of Brewing" were it
as far as reliable information.  Zymurgy was full of new stuff every issue,
some of it not as good as others.  I don't know if Charlie is simply out of
his depth, burned out, arrogant or what, but he serves an easy target and
seems to have brought this on himself.  Was his post last week an attempt
to mend bridges?  I hope so.

Jeff

 -=-=-=-=-
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan c/o nerenner at umich.edu
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943. 




Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 09:22:52 -0600 
From: rlabor at lsumc.edu (LaBorde, Ronald)
Subject: RE: : Help save my marriage!

>>>>
From: DGofus at aol.com

I have made a near fatal lapse in reason. My friend and I decided to
purchase
6 cases of beer and split the cost and beer down the middle. We got great
prices on some wonderful beers, but........my dear wife did not think that
the
idea was so great. So, to appease her and keep in her good graces;^), I need
to get rid of these case. 
I do not want to make money, just recoup my loses so that my understanding
spouse does not decide to rid the house of all my homebrew equipment and me
along with it! Price would be like $60
<<<<

This may be a critical point in your marriage and future.  Do not under any
circumstances sell your cases to become henpecked.  You life will become
total misery and be worse than death!

Not to brag, but my wife allows me to buy all the beer I want, and also paid
for half the brewhouse construction and helped me select curtains for the
new windows.  She also clips beer news items from the local papers for my
reading.  She doesn't drink beer, but she is very supportive of my hobby.

How much has your wife spent on expensive shinny pots?  On ice cream?  On
makeup (warpaint)?  On women's magazines?  You get the idea!

Ron

Ronald La Borde - Metairie, Louisiana - rlabor at lsumc.edu



Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 10:51:31 -0500
From: "Spies, Jay" <Spies at dhcd.state.md.us>
Subject: Re: Oxidation/AHA bashing

All -

Regarding the recent thread about oxidationin the
bottle/headspace/capping on foam, etc., I've always thought (perhaps
naively) that since CO2 is heavier than ambient air, the CO2 formed
during natural bottle carbonation would form a protective "mini-layer"
between the beer in the bottle and any air present when the bottle was
capped.  I don't know about the rest of you, but I normally leave my
bottles alone and undisturbed for the 2 weeks or so that it usually
takes to carbonate them, and move the bottles only when I'm ready to
chill/drink the beer.  I'd think that as long as you don't go sloshing
the bottle around, the CO2 layer should prevent what little air there is
in the bottle from ever touching the beer.  Is this totally off base, or
what??

Regarding the comments about Scott Abene's post -- if you don't share
his opinions, then page down.  The comments that collectively say "stop
bashing the AHA" can be seen as being as counterproductive as some have
seen Scott's to be.  If we are dissatisfied with the level of service,
attentiveness, and member support offered by the AHA, why shouldn't we
complain to them and anyone else who will listen?  How else will the AHA
know what needs to be fixed (if they ever will)?  Personally, I feel
that Zymurgy has become an ad rag, and paging through it usually only
makes me appreciate my BT subscription.  Brian Rezac seems to be trying
hard, and seems to have the interests of the homebrewing community on
his radar screen.  I don't think the same can be said of Charlie P.  I
feel that the member subscriptions only seem to fund his "world traveler
retirement account".  If the AHA is to become a viable organization, it
needs to provide some services to the homebrewing community as a whole
and adopt some semblance of a vision for the future.  It could start by
updating the lame excuse for a website that it offers.

<rant mode off>

Jay Spies
Wishful Thinking Basement Brewery
Baltimore, MD


Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 07:45:04 -0800
From: Kyle_Druey at na.dole.com
Subject: DWV Help

     Is there someone who could answer a few installation questions for me
     on DWV systems?
     I realize this is a nonbrewing related topic (coule be RIMS related?),
     but I need some help before
     I get myself into real trouble.  I recently gots bids from contractors
     to plumb a new bathroom in my
     converted attic for $3,000 (shower, W/C, & lav).  Yikes!  They think
     I'm a rich man.  They upset me so much that I have decided to DIY.
     Anyone who could offer some help via email would be appreciated.

     I am going to attempt a no-sparge brew in a few weeks.  From what I
     gather one can expect an efficiency from the maximum theoretical yield
     of about 50% to 60%... is this correct?  Thanks,

     Kyle Druey
     Bakersfield, CA
     druey at ibm.net




Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 07 Dec 1998 11:10:22 -0600
From: David Luckie <dluckie at datasync.com>
Subject: Anniversaries and such...

I've been brewing great beer for a couple of years now.  I've been
lurking this list for almost just as long.  My $0.02 on Mr. Papazian,
the AHA and the leadership in this hobby:

The hobby of crafting great beer at home thrives despite the AHA, not
because of it.    The real leaders in this movement have selflessly
given their time and talent to a hobby that they love.

Korzonas, Palmer, Liddil, Lutzen...  These guys and their compatriots
are the real heroes of homebrew.  I've learned more from one HBD post
(from a gentleman listed above)  than I did from one week reading
Papazian's book, and I fortunately un-learned in the former what I had
learned in the latter.  I make better better beer because of the HBD and
the great brewers who make it.  I've never been a member of the AHA, so
I can't honestly ask myself the same question about it.   Maybe someone
else can offer an opinion.

If you live in a state where brewing beer at home is of questionable
legality, as I do, can you honestly state that the only national
advocacy organization for craft brewing has been helpful?  Despite
numerous attempts by the many dues-paying, card-carrying AHA members in
this state, the organization will not get involved.  For the third
straight year, a bill to specifically allow home brewing has died in the
legislature.  We've written legislators, we've faxed newspapers and
we've transmitted email.  We get no help from AHA.  They just don't seem
to give a shit.

Email goes unanswered.  The web page remains inaccurate and outdated.
The same old people seem to be doing the same old thing--zilch.  We need
an organization that seeks the input of its members, formulates a
strategy based on the needs of its members and operates itself for the
sole benefit of its members.

We ain't got one of those right now.

Back to lurk mode.




Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 12:05:33 -0500 
From: "Santerre, Peter (PRS) - CPC" <PRS at NA2.US.ML.COM>
Subject: Re: PA Brewpubs <Dying>

 "C and K" <Cuckold at cornerpub.com> writes:

Here in Washington State, as I suspect elsewhere, the big boys are getting
into the game.  You can go into most any store, and there is Michelob (aka
Bud) Heffeweissen for $3.80 a sixpack.  Other styles available, too.  I
would imagine they are taking a loss, trying to strangle our microbrew
industry.

To which I reply:

Boy, if only we could prove that!  I'm sure we could get those
mega-factories out
of the craft brewing pond so they would quit muddying the water.  Can we say
anti-trust laws?  Maybe Netscape or Janet Reno could help us out ;)

 -=ShockValue=-


Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 07 Dec 1998 13:51:22 -0500
From: Richard Johnson <ricjohnson at SURRY.NET>
Subject: Using a keg as a bottling vessel

George de Piro says:
I can bottle half of a batch then fill the keg with the rest of the beer and
force carbonate.  It is always fun to compare the bottle-conditioned vs.
mega-brew style of conditioning and serving.

How do you measure the amount you are going to bottle so your primings are
correct?

Richard Johnson
Mt. Airy, NC



Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 14:20:55 EST
From: NEWTRADBC at aol.com
Subject: Hey Charlie, post again, if you can ignore the moronic vitriol

Celebrated on the anniversary with a group of homebrewers in the local club
(FOAM), drank from a wide selection of big seasonal beers, including some
belgian ales and homemade lambics.  It's amazing how far the hobby has come
since I first began homebrewing with the ole can of syrup and cane sugar (and
it was still better than the typical swill we bought in college) in 1983.

First homebrewing book I bought (like many others) was "TheCompleteJoy of
Homebrewing."  A book I still have and enjoy perusing, despite the cover
falling off and virtually every page stained with wort.   Buying that book was
my epiphany (sp?),  having only previously relied on the recipes on the labels
of syrup. So thanks Charlie, without that book, and the other AHA material
back in the dark ages, I'd never learned to  enjoy beer and brewing like I do
now.

Please ignore the foul, trub-like bitterness hurled your way here on the HBD
by a few souls that apparently feel have been pursacuted (sp. again?) and
taken advantage by you to the ends of the earth.  It's no wonder you so rarely
post, but don't let angry electrons censor you.   Especially answer reasonable
questions like goals for the next 20 that have been posted.  Post again,
methinks the  bitter folks that offer nothing other than ranting lunacy, if
nothing else, need to have bile back up into their throats every so often.

A toast to another 20.


Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 07 Dec 1998 14:31:16 -0700
From: Christopher "R." Hebert <CRH at ny.rfny.rflaw.com>
Subject: Oud Bruin

I've got the patience, I've got the time, and I have the Oak Barrel.  What I
don't have, however, is a good recipe for Oud Bruin/Rodenbach. 
Nothing in Cat's Meow and Phllip Seitz doesn't seem to be around the
HBD these days.  So, last resort, does anyone out there have a darn
good recipe that they'll share with me.  

Any advice, too, would be very appreciated.  I intend to age the beer 2
years (per the Rodenbach label) and then blend with new beer. 
Proportions?  I'll probably blend to taste when the time comes, but is this
the best course for something that'llsit around for a while longer?
Yeast?  I'm currently trying to propigate some yeast from the bottle, but
barring this, what kind of yeast regimen can I use?
 Thanks in advance...


Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 16:40:14 -0500 
From: "Czerpak, Pete" <Pete.Czerpak at siigroup.com>
Subject: calculating pressure drop in a cooling coil

Edgell at cari.net <mailto:Edgell at cari.net>  posted about cooling coil
pressure drop in the Wed. or Thurs. HBD last week.  It referenced a
March brand mag-drive pump with 13 ft of head and thought that it might
be too wimpy for flow through  25 ft of coiled 3/8" copper tubing.

To calculate how big a pump is required to push fluid through the
coiling coil at a given flowrate 

(WARNING: these relations only account for pressure drop due to the coil
and not due to height differences between inlet and outlet or frictional
losses through contractions, expansions, valves, bends, Ts, or anything
else.  Those require more engineering work (number crunching and
assumptions) and can't be generalized so easily)

H = 2 V2 L F / (G D)

Where 	H = pump head rating in m
V = linear flow velocity in m/s
L = tubing length in m
F = friction factor due to coil (dimensionless)
G = gravitational constant (9.81 m/s2)
D = tubing diameter in m

F = 0.079/(Re 0.25) + 0.0073/(Dcoil / D)0.5

This frictional relation for coiled pipe flow was taken from Perrys
Handbook for Chem. Engineers for turbulent flow in coils.

Where 	Re = Reynolds number (dimensionless) = D V Density / Viscosity
	Density = temperature avg. density of water (about 1000 kg/m3)
	Viscosity = temperature avg. viscosity of water (about 0.0005 kg
/ m s)
	Dcoil = coil diameter in m

Assumed was perfectly smooth pipe, where copper tubing is fairly close. 

The basis for calculating pumping capacity from these relations are that
there is no net height gain or loss between the level of the water in
the hot tank and the level of the water in the cold tank.  

How to account for changes in level won't be covered unless requested
since it is fairly indepth.

For the spec of 25 ft of 3/8" coiled tubing, I calculated an avg max.
flowrate of about 2 gpm if the pump is located at or above the level of
water in the cold tank and at or below the water level in the hot tank.
A coil diameter of 1 ft was also assumed along with no losses due to
fluid compression into the pipeline and out of the pump, as well as no
losses due to elbows, valves, etc..  Thus, this pump will work to pump
water through the coil if no net height gain is required.  Height loss
(ie. hot tank is higher than cold tank) will increase the max possible
flowrate.  A smaller coil (ie. 3 to 4 inches) ,than the assumed 1 ft,
will increase the frictional losses by about 25%, but will still enable
flow albeit slower than the 2 gpm.

Posted or private questions ok.


Pete Czerpak
Process Engineer - Chemical Division
Schenectady International, Inc.
Schenectady, NY

pete.czerpak at siigroup.com



Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 07 Dec 1998 17:19:03 -0800
From: "S. Wesley" <sWesley at maine.maine.edu>
Subject: Re:  Help save my marriage! ... an alternative.

Dear Bob, 
	Rather than trying to unload the beer on someone else try 
unloading it on your wife.  No joke, allow me to elaborate.
	When I first started dating my S.O. she drank coors if she drank 
beer at all.  Over time I introduced her to a wide variety of different 
beers in local bars, restaurants and brewpubs.  I took the time to 
explain what she was drinking, what to look for in the flavor and a 
little bit about the historical background of the style.  She didn't like 
or even finish everything at first, but over time she has developed an 
appreciation of beer that is fairly sophisticated.  She will now drink 
just about any variety of beer but extremely heavy stout, and from time 
to time she shocks bartenders in brewpubs by correctly identifying the 
hop varieties in the beer she is drinking.  She has even gone so far as 
to accompany me on a trip Birmingham and the Black Country to sample 
Milds, and to brew a batch of all grain from her own recipie (with a 
little guidance from me.)
	Since I have taken the time to make my obsession with beer 
something which includes rather than excludes my S.O. she NEVER gives me 
any grief about beer.  Well, that's not exactly true.  She does complain 
if I go and visit a new brewpub without her and she gets a little testy 
if we run out of one of her favorite varieties of Homebrew, but other 
than that things are fine.
	So here is my alternative to selling off your collection: Make 
her a multi course dinner and serve a different beer with each course. If 
she doesn't finish each one you may have to help her.(|:^) I would be 
prepared to explain what it is about these beers that makes them so 
unique both historically and flavor wise.  
	Remember, if she doesn't go for it, divorce is still an option!  
Good luck from the sensitive 90's kind of guy whose also known as...
				
				Simon Andrew Wesley


Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 14:20:36 -0800 (PST)
From: Scott Murman <smurman at best.com>
Subject: storing stored yeast


OK, I've got too many strains of yeast already, and I continue to add
more.  I store them in small dram vials.  How are folks storing the
damn little vials (don't say "upright")?  I tried pushing holes in
styrofoam, to no avail.  I don't want to spend $$ for some lab
supplied solution.  Some type of glue pad maybe?

 -SM-



Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 16:57:09 -0600 (CST)
From: Al Korzonas <korz at xnet.com>
Subject: scorchmaster

Jay is concerned about the fragility of an EasyMasher screen.

You clearly don't own an EasyMasher... they are anything but fragile.
You can bend them, but it would be difficult to break one even if you
tried very hard.  Really!  See my website -- I use something very
similar.  I stir with a commercial kitchen spoon which looks not unlike
a small oar.  Never had any problems (well, one time I did swing one
of the copper arms upwards but that was because I hadn't properly
tightened the compression fitting... but that wasn't the fault of
the screen).

Al.

Al Korzonas, Palos Hills, IL
korz at xnet.com
http://www.brewinfo.com/brewinfo/


Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 14:58:15 -0800 
From: Badger Roullett <branderr at microsoft.com>
Subject: 1 gallon batches

hiya.

i just recently bought a 2.8 gallon carboy for use in doing small Test
batches....  I have some questions for the more experienced brewers out
there..

Is there any tips on scaling up or down to 1 gallon batches?  I want to
create a few new recipes based on some medieval reserach, and then scale up
the tasty ones to 5-10 or even 15 gallon batches.

and how about scaling a 5-10 or 15 batch down to 1 gallon for refinement?  

is it simple straight math?

***************************************************
Brander Roullett aka Badger
Homepage: http://www.nwlink.com/~badger
In the SCA: Lord Frederic Badger of Amberhaven

 "It had to be a linguistics professor who said that it's man's ability to
use language that makes him the dominant species on the planet. That  may
be. But I think there's one other thing that separates us from animals. We
aren't afraid of vacuum cleaners."       --Jeff Stilson



Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 19:15:30 -0500
From: "Michael Maag" <maagm at rica.net>
Subject: Beer in CO2 regulator

I never thought it would happen to me, but, I got some beer in my CO2
regulator.  I have heard it "will ruin it".  How? Can it be saved?  The tank
went empty while carbonating a corny.  A little beer went up the line into
the regulator before I could shut it off.  I blew it out the next day after
I got more CO2.  That was a week ago.  I carbonated another corny yesterday,
and the beer tastes great.   The regulator seems to work ok.  Should I take
the regulator apart and try to clean it out?  IMRR?
TIA
Mike (In the middle of the Shenandoah Valley)
8*)




Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 11:12:59 +1100
From: "Rick Wood" <thewoods at netpci.com>
Subject: Nasty People and such

Hello John Adsit and HBD,
I noted you post the other day and just had to post in support.  The HBD is
full of wonderful information and discussion.  But there are a certain group
of people that have a real chip on their shoulder and are very biased and
don't think twice about posting their venom.

My first thought when I say Charlies post was that it was certain to bring
out the HATE MONGERS, and it certainly did.  I am always amazed with the
viciousness of the diatribes.  But it also brought out support and that is
the good part.  So thanks to you Charlie P for having the courage to post to
this group, a group with so much information to give freely (I'd mention
names here, but could not do justice to all, so won't) and so much Hate and
Venom to push (I'd mention name here, but we all know who they are, so
won't).

So Congratulations to you, Charlie and the AHA and the IBS.  You have done
much to support our wonderful hobby and many of us thank you and appreciate
it.

Regards,
Rick Wood
"Brewing on Guam"




Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 20:30:01 -0600
From: "Richard Scott" <rscott57 at flash.net>
Subject: Amen.  Stop slamming those with whom you disagree.

I appreciate John Adsit's <jadsit at jeffco.k12.co.us>
remarks regarding AHA, HBD, and avoiding nastiness.

The quality, tone & texture of our public discourse have 
become abysmal.  Is a witty remark, a carefully crafted double-
entendre, or a clever back-handed compliment beyond 
our reach?    

It is as if Jerry Springer and his guests are "normal".

I appreciate the efforts of any person or group
that honestly seeks to improve their abilities (brewing or
otherwise) or improve the abilities of others.  I trust
that many who read HBD feel similarly.

Richard Scott
Coppell (Dallas) Texas



Return to table of contents

---