---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com


Contents:
  Dixie's Blackened Voodoo (Jeff Renner)
  Off topic question regarding lead.... ("Dawn Watkins")
  rodenbach (Jim Liddil)
  Heat exchangers for houses/brewhouse setup (Jim Cave)
  Re: diffusion of gases within kegs (Robert Arguello)
  wyeast 1338 (Boeing)" <BayerMA at navair.navy.mil>
  Protein rest discussion ("Bridges, Scott")
  Chimay Cinq Cents clone, part deux (Matthew Arnold)
  Protein is dead, Long live Protein (Dave Sapsis)
  Re: fusel formation and hops/trub question (Jeff Renner)
  Headspace o2, Brian Rezac and X-mas books (Jason Henning)
  Brewing in Poland (VQuante)
  German pronounciation (VQuante)
  A Question regarding temperature rest and maltotriose... (LEAVITDG)
  Brewing calculators & more ("Steven W. Smith")
  Ghosts of AHA past, present, future (Paul Gatza)
  Air in Corny ("J.Kish")
  CAP; New Hop Varieties (G. J. Fix) (BrwyFoam)
  funny smell (VQuante)
  Re: Rye home-malting (Alan T) ("Mark Nelson")
  re-fusels ("Nathaniel P. Lansing")
  Re Converted Keg Mash Tun (RobertJ)
  Favorite Books ("Richard Scott")
  HBD Web Page (LaBorde, Ronald)
  RE: Converted keg mash tun (LaBorde, Ronald)
  Grain mills (Norman Odette)
  Not quite a 'Darwin Award' attempt but... (Skip Jonas)
  RE: LD Carlson Fruit Flavoring (John_E_Schnupp)
  Things growing in my moist freezer (Rod Schaffter)
  Re: LD Carlson Fruit Flavoring ("rrscott")
  Rye toxins and built-in home breweries (Jason Henning)
  Malt Advocate (Jason Henning)
  Loss of brewpubs ("C and K")


Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy!

//////
(This space free to a good competition)
//////

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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 11:19:55 -0500
From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu>
Subject: Dixie's Blackened Voodoo

John_Simonetta at ittsheraton.com (John Simonetta) writes, referring to
Dixie's Blackened Voodoo:

>     This brewery, with its "pervasive aroma of ammonia" does seem like a
>     fitting place to me for the production of the above brew - possibly
>     the worst beer I've ever had.

Was this a fresh sample and you just don't like the rendition or was it in
bad condition?  I found it to be a very nice rich dark lager, albeit it
with a common flaw for this style (IMNSHO), tasteable black patent malt
(although very subtle).  But I wasn't just swayed by the mystique of the
brewery and the name, Michael Jackson in his newest 6th Edition Pocket
Guide to Beer rates it "**-*** ... deep, tawny colour and a malty, treacly,
palate ... ; really a respecatble Kulmbach-style lager?"  The Kulmbach
beers do have a bit of that black malt character.

Jeff

 -=-=-=-=-
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan c/o nerenner at umich.edu
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943. 




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Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 08:11:54 -0800
From: "Dawn Watkins" <Dawn.Watkins at mci.com>
Subject: Off topic question regarding lead....

I have a question that is off the topic of beer, but is alcohol related.

I just bought a very pretty leaded crystal decanter that I had thought to
fill with a homemade cordial and give as a Christmas gift to a friend.

When I got home I got to thinking about the discussion of lead that was
going on not too long ago, and I am now wondering if the decanter would be
safe, or if it would make the cordial toxic.

Does anyone know if leaded crystal is safe to use?

Thanks,

Dawn Watkins
Wyterayven at aol.com



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Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 09:30:36 +0000
From: Jim Liddil <jliddil at azcc.arizona.edu>
Subject: rodenbach

I suggest folks who want to know about rodenbach first go to 
http://hubris.engin.umich.edu:8080/cgi-bin/dothread  and search the lambic
digest for posts on rodenbach look at the searches for 96 and 97 that have
already been done.

Jim Liddil




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Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 08:47:51 -0800
From: Jim Cave <cave at psc.org>
Subject: Heat exchangers for houses/brewhouse setup

Al Korzonas asks about the utility of putting a heat exchanger into his 
brewhouse setup.

	There is a potential problem with this setup and that is moisture.  In 
very cold weather (Al it gets cold in Chicago doesn't it? :-) If you are 
venting hot moist air from inside and exchanging it with very cold dry air 
from outside, you could risk having the condensation freeze and block the 
system.  This problem was explained to me by an expert at a trade show and 
is even a problem in houses with regular moisture levels at times.  Perhaps 
there are folks out there on the HBD who are in the business and could 
comment further.

	I really like my setup outside, with construction in a shed with a 
concrete floor.  It was the heating/filter room for an old above-ground 
pool that was in place when I moved to the house.  I took down the pool, 
filter and heater, and installed hot and cold water and a sink, and presto: 
 brewery!  Natural gas and electricity were already there.  What I really 
like is cleanup:  I just blast the floors, walls counters with hot water. 
 Looks real impressive in the winter!  If it were me, building a new home 
and brewery, I'd build an out-building and install the brewery there.

					Jim Cave








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Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 09:05:50 -0800 (PST)
From: Robert Arguello <robertac at calweb.com>
Subject: Re: diffusion of gases within kegs

"Czerpak, Pete" <Pete.Czerpak at siigroup.com> wrote in part:

The diffusional process goes like this: with a open keg, it initially is
filled entirely with air (unlimited supply of O2).  Now you close it and
the amount of air and O2 contained becomes finite.  Now you add CO2
under pressure until the pressure in the keg equilibrates with the
cylinder pressure.  


Allowing the keg pressure to equal the cylinder pressure will most likely
result in an explosion. Soda kegs are designed for maximum pressure in the
100 psi range. C02 cylinder pressure is in the 800 psi range. I am sure that
Pete did not mean to suggest that you should put 800 psi on your corny keg,
but I felt that a clarification was appropriate. I use basically the same
system for purging O2 that Pete describes in his post, but would add that
you will want to limit the pressure to a safe level. I set my regulator for
35 psi, and purge twice. A very effective way of purging C02 from a keg has
already been mentioned....fill the keg with water and push the liquid out
using C02.

Robert A.

********************************************************************     	
Robert Arguello <robertac at calweb.com>
Corny kegs - Mahogany 6-pack carriers - ProMash Brewing Software
http://www.calweb.com/~robertac
********************************************************************



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Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 12:08:20 -0500
From: "Bayer, Mark A (Boeing)" <BayerMA at navair.navy.mil>
Subject: wyeast 1338

collective homebrew conscience:

wouldn't 1338 be a good yeast for an old ale, due to its unattenuative
nature?
(or is it not alcohol-tolerant enough?)

brew hard,

mark bayer
great mills, md


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Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 12:30:29 -0500
From: "Bridges, Scott" <ScottBridges at sc.slr.com>
Subject: Protein rest discussion


I also followed this discussion last year with interest.  I don't have a
technical background, but for some reason I enjoyed it more than most of the
very technical  things that get airplay here and tried to grasp what was
being thrown around.  I summarized the discussion for a club meeting.  I
also cut and pasted what I felt were the more "significant" posts (with
attribution) by Steve Alexander, Dave Burley, Al Korzonas, Charles Rich and
Dr. George Fix into a file for a handout during my club talk.  It's probably
a little too much to post again, but I'd be happy to email it to anyone, if
there is no objection by the authors mentioned above.  Below are *my*
conclusions based on the thread that went on for a while.   BTW, the thread
was last Sept/Oct, in case anyone wants to search through the archives for
the whole discussion.


Loose consensus seems to indicate that a 122 protein rest (emphasizing
peptinase) is no longer necessary, and if the rest is used for too long a
period of time will degrade too many high and medium molecular weight
proteins (HMWP and MMWP) into low molecular weight proteins (LMWP).  Effect
of this, especially on lower-protein, higher-kilned pale ale malts, may be
loss of body and head retention.

Recommendation #1
		For brewers who use a protein rest, use a 135 F rest (to
emphasize protease enzyme) which will break down HMWP into MMWP.  This
should enhance body and head retention without breaking down too much of the
mash protein content into LMWP.

Recommendation #2
		Some less modified, lower kilned malts (like lager or pils
malts), may benefit from a short rest at 122.  This can serve to increase
the solubility of the mash and increase mash efficiency.  This will also
allow the beta-glucanase enzyme to break down some of the haze forming gums,
which can cause slow/stuck sparging especially in high-adjunct mashes.	 


		Scott Bridges
		Brewing in Columbia, SC


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Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 17:10:02 GMT
From: marnold at ez-net.com (Matthew Arnold)
Subject: Chimay Cinq Cents clone, part deux

I guess I was somewhat surprised that no one in the collective had attempted to
brew a Chimay Cinq Cents clone, but from scrounging around at several sources
(BT Brewing in Styles column on Trappist Ales, Rajotte's "Belgian Ale", several
recipe websites, private correspondence with AlK, some Michael Jackson books,
and Phil Seitz's treatise on Belgian beers) I was able to come up with a recipe
that I hope will do a pretty good imitation. For anyone who might be
interested, here's the recipe:

Nickel Tripel (based on a faulty translation of "Cinq Cents")
10# German Pilsner
1# German wheat malt
1.5# Clear candi sugar or table sugar
2 oz EK Goldings pellets (5.8% AA--1.5 oz for 60 minutes, .5 oz at knockout)
1 oz Hersbrucker pellets (1.3% AA--.5 oz FWH, .5 oz at knockout)
Starter of Wyeast #1214 Belgian Abbey
7/8 cup or 1 cup of corn sugar for priming

Single step infusion mash at 150F. Primary ferment at 60-62F. Age as long as I
can stand it. Rajotte said that candi sugar is 99% sucrose and the clear
variety just hasn't been caramelized at all so plain table sugar should be a
perfectly fine substitute. 'Course, I found this out after I already shelled
out $5 for 500g of clear candi sugar.

I hope to brew this soon. If anyone has any comments, please let me know!
Thanks,
  Matt
- -----
Webmaster, Green Bay Rackers Homebrewers' Club
http://www.rackers.org        info at rackers.org


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Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 09:34:35 -0800
From: Dave Sapsis <DAVE_SAPSIS at fire.ca.gov>
Subject: Protein is dead, Long live Protein

While the posts indicating effects from protein rested mashes and those
without are insightful, it is important to understand that both the
malt/grist characteristics *and* the style of beer being brewed will
likely influence whether you would want to do one.  And while we have
battered around the notion that truely low modified malts are tough to
find, recognize that portein content in the finshed beer has both
significant physical and taste qualities.  I for one would do a 130 rest
with American malt if I were making a Steam beer, cause thats what they
do.  Similarly, full body is not appropriate in all beers, and whether
you like them or not, Amertican Premium lagers are very well made beers;
its just that high foam stand and full body are not part of their
profile.  Also, strictly from a brewhouse operations standpoint, low
temperature rests are often useful when doing decots, as you end up
having a significant dose of heat  (well above the sach. range) to deal
with.

Brewing is full of half-truths.  Its whats in the glass that counts.
Now, what I'm really wondering is how to purge that gas from my gullet.
Oh, never mind....

- --dave, sacramento


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Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 12:54:15 -0500
From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu>
Subject: Re: fusel formation and hops/trub question

"Czerpak, Pete" <Pete.Czerpak at siigroup.com> writes

>I just got results back from a competition where my imperial stout (OG =
>1.084, FG = 1.025, 2 wk primary, 2 month secondary, 1 yr bottled) did
>pretty well.  The main problem was solvent liked flavors due to fusel
>alcohol formation.  Could the age, high OG, or large amt of hops used,
>have anything to do with these fusels.  I don't rack the wort of the
>trub and spent hops before primary, I just pored it all in to the
>carboy.  Also, I didn't use a starter or external source of O2 although
>the yeasts (Wyeast Irish) seemed to do pretty ok with high attenuation.

Two things we can eliminate as possible causes of fusel "oils" (higher
alcohols) are the high hopping and the age.  Hops will have no effect and
fusels are formed during fermentation and age will not affect them, except
to reduce them as they form other products such as esters.  Of course,
solvent flavors/smells are actually esters (formed by alcohols with acids),
not fusels, but my guess is that they were there pretty early.

More likely causes include stressed yeast from underpitching and/or
underoxygenation.  This is always going to be more of a problem at high OG,
too, where more higher alcohols are formed anyway.  Some and their products
are actually a positive part of the flavor profile of high OG ales, but not
the solvent-like ones.

What temperature did you ferment at?  I'd certainly avoid over 70F (19C)
for high gravity ales where fusels are unwanted.  Belgian ales are an
example of where they are appropriate, but even there, keep it under maybe
78F.

I think that the presence of excessive trub may increase fusel production,
but I can't remember for sure.  The archives and/or some of our experts may
know for sure.

I was going to write that fusels are responsible for hangovers, or at least
headaches, but Charlie Banforth writes (Beer: The Art and Science of
Brewing) writes that there is very little evidnece for this.  Learn
something every day.

Jeff


 -=-=-=-=-
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan c/o nerenner at umich.edu
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943. 




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Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 18:04:53 GMT
From: huskers at voyager.net (Jason Henning)
Subject: Headspace o2, Brian Rezac and X-mas books

Hello-

There's been a lot of talk about cap-on-foam bottling here. I understand
the idea but is it necessary when bottle conditioning. Isn't yeast an o2
scavenger? I'd think the best process is to fill the bottle, cap, move
to storage, all as gently as possible. 

Oxidation occurs when the o2 and alcohol react together. If the
headspace isn't mixed with the beer, won't the yeast metabolize the o2,
effectively stopping oxidation in it's tracks?

- ----

Quite a few people tout Brain Rezac as one of the good guys over at the
AHA. Is he? I wonder. 

Brian helped Rob Moline further his personnel vendetta against his
former employer, Little Apple Brewing Company. Brian used Rob's stolen
Big 12 barleywine recipe as the cornerstone of the AHA's Big Brew '98
event. Although Rob formulated (Rob also brewed it and was solely
responsible for getting the beer to GABF where it won BOS) the recipe,
it is still the property of the Little Apple.

Where would the AHA be had the Little Apple filed suit and won? I don't
know what kind of a judgement could come of that but I bet it's 6
figures. I can't imagine putting the limited resources of the AHA at
risk like that.

- ----

Here's a book I think every brewer should ask NOT to get for X-mas. It's
Bob Klein's _Beer Lover's Rating Guide_. This book might be worth the
money for comedic value. 1200 beers are rated (0-5, higher is better)
and briefly described. 

Big Foot got a .2-1.3 rating while Rolling Rock weighs in at 3.6. Klein
use such wishy-washy language, it makes just about every evaluation
useless. Shinerbock, "some what flabby"; Anchor Steam, "too much
heartiness and zest are lost at the bottom of the glass"; Hieneken,
"crunchy sharpness in both taste and texture". I could go on but you get
the picture.

Cheers,
Jason Henning
Big Red Alchemy and Brewing
Clawson, Michigan

Sometimes we brew in no particular way but our own

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Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 15:20:48 EST
From: VQuante at aol.com
Subject: Brewing in Poland

In summer this year I had to move to Poland and am working now in Warsaw. Does
anybody out there in the homebrew universe know, if homebrewing in Poland is
legal?

And if, are there - maybe - other homebrewers out here in Warsaw? Contact
warmly welcome!

Volker R. Quante

Brewing and working in Warsaw / Poland, but definitely a German Homebrewer


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Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 15:20:42 EST
From: VQuante at aol.com
Subject: German pronounciation

in hbd # 2898 Spencer W Thomas <spencer at engin.umich.edu> wrote:

>>> As I recall, the German "R" is trilled briefly at the front of the
tongue <<<

Definitely not. Our southern neighbors, the Austrians, sometimes do, maybe
also some Bavarians, but most Germans do not. They roll the "r" in the back of
the mouth - the so called "uvular r", performed with the fluttering uvula.

The Polish for example do, as Spencer assumed.

Volker R. Quante

Brewing and working in Warsaw / Poland, but definitely a German Homebrewer


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Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 15:39:11 -0500 (EST)
From: LEAVITDG at SPLAVA.CC.PLATTSBURGH.EDU
Subject: A Question regarding temperature rest and maltotriose...


I have been reading...and Fix states something to the effect that lager
yeasts can metabolize maltotriose as well as maltose, BUT that ale yeasts
have a hard time metabolizing maltotriose, and that one might want to,
therefore, increase the maltose/maltotriose ratio..., and that a temp rest
between 140 and 148 would do this (optimal for beta-amylase). Whew!...now,
that said, my question is:

  When making ales, why not keep the temp between 140 and 148?  Why would one,
in making an ale, want a rest above 154?  Perhaps to get a sweeter brew based
on some style/s?

 ...confused..
 ..Darrell
<Plattsburgh, NY>



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Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 13:55:37 -0700 (MST)
From: "Steven W. Smith" <SYSSWS at gc.maricopa.edu>
Subject: Brewing calculators & more

  If ever there was a group of people who'd appreciate every sort of geeky 
calculator devised... If you haven't seen it (as I hadn't 'til just now)
visit

   http://www-sci.lib.uci.edu/HSG/RefCalculators1.html#COOK-BEER

  Besides a good selection of brewing-related apps, you can find a calculator 
for nearly any application.  Beekeeping, Ionosphere, welding... You get the 
picture.  They claim "over 7,480 calculators".  I believe 'em.
  BTW, has anyone mentioned that you can purge O2 from a keg by filling it
with water and pushing it out w/ CO2?  They did?  *How* many times in 1 
digest??? ;-)
  Ob. Beer:  About to perpetrate Tooncinator Motley Cru* again after a long
haitus, this time with 2 packets of Nottingham.  I'm hoping it'll ferment in 
under a month this time :-)

* as seen in The Cat's Meow (that must count as my 15 minutes of fame)

Steven W. Smith, Systems Programmer, caring nurturer, not a licensed therapist
Glendale Community College. Glendale Az.
syssws at gc.maricopa.edu


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Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 14:02:30 -0700
From: Paul Gatza <paulg at aob.org>
Subject: Ghosts of AHA past, present, future

I'll be Ebenezer Splooge of the AHA. 

Ghost of AHA Past
I was awakened three nights ago by the ghost of AHA past. He showed me
what a cute caring AHA I was when I was young. I used to have fun with
all of the neighborhood brewers. We had a nice small community and threw
fun homebrew events such as the National Homebrew Competition with the
following categories: Beers and Lagers - light and dark, Ales - light
and dark, Stouts and Unusual Brews. I put together events for the beer
lover such as the GABF and issued the 12-page Zymurgy.

The hobby got bigger, the organization grew, money flowed in,
information was available from other brewing magazines and over the
computer. We were brewers, not computer people. We started making
mistakes--we did not have the technical expertise to handle our
malfunctioning of the HBD. Pat and Karl resucitated it. We mishandled
other items such as the BJCP and some of our interactions with
retailers. 

We also did some good for the hobby. We researched the homebrewing laws
in every state and helped craft legalization legislation; we helped
further beer judging and beer styles standards; we helped individuals
form homebrew clubs in their communities; we helped homebrewers measure
the quality of their brews by helping with and organizing competitions;
we helped homebrewers brew better beer with articles and recipes in
Zymurgy; we helped promote the hobby as our mission.

Ghost of AHA Present
I was awakened two nights ago by the ghost of AHA present. He was happy
some times and unhappy other times. He showed me the void in staffing
and leadership last April when the I went from a three-person staff to a
two-person staff to a one-person staff who had to seek local help to fix
the blundered Northeast NHC site. He showed me the people coming up to
Paul when Paul came aboard saying "You have a hell of a job in front of
you" and "Do you know what you are getting yourself into"? We would like
to be instantly responsive to the hundred e-mails that arrive each day.
We do our best and we really do care. We are passionate homebrewers and
we wish everything worked out according to plan. We have also seen
membership dropping at the same rate that homebrewing is decreasing
around the country. As a result we try to be responsive to our members
at the same time we try to be proactive with our program work with less
staff and money. 

The ghost showed me a pile of comment cards from Zymurgy magazine. I
looked at the first card. It said "Too much beginner information. Please
make Zymurgy more technical." He flipped to the second card. It said
"Too technical. Please make Zymurgy more for the new brewer." He flipped
to the third card. It said "More recipes please." He flipped to the
fourth card. It said "I don't have time to brew anymore, more microbrew
information please."

He showed me cobwebs on the beertown.org website. I said I have already
submitted my updates and that some are waiting for the web redesign. He
showed me the perception of one individual carrying a sack of money
overtop the backs of the membership. I told him that less than 10
percent of that sack is charged to the AHA for attendance at meetings,
writing for the magazine, speaking to homebrew clubs and the national
conference. Roughly 40 cents of a member's dues go into that sack. The
experience and advice he provides is certainly worth it I tell the
ghost.

The ghost of AHA present showed the AHA the corporate behemoth that the
public perception has made it out to be. The AHA staff are good folk,
but are magically prevented from being effective by the corporate
behemoth. He also showed us the back burner filled with work the AHA
would love to tackle but has not had the staffing available for. Work
such as standardizing homebrew shipping and shipping containers
nationally. Work like tying up the loose ends on every project over the
year. Even responding to the hundreds of e-mails and dozens of phone
calls each week. The ghost showed me willing volunteers in Kansas City
planning the AHA Conference for June 24-26, 1999, volunteer site
directors and stewards, competition entrants and judges and big brewers.
I said to the ghost "Yes. This is the AHA. This is what we are." 

Ghost of AHA Future
Just as I was drifting off last night the ghost of AHA future came into
the room. He showed me the town recycling center. In the metals bin were
rusty, empty, lonely brew kettles. He showed me an empty AHA office and
a one-page membership list. I felt a chill wind.

Today
I thrust open the window. "Boy down there. Where is the AHA? Have they
served out their usefulness and gone to the graveyard"? The boy, leaning
on his crutch said "What is the AHA"? I told him that we promote
homebrewing and all its cultural beauty. The boy said "You can brew your
own beer"? I inform him that he could make great beer at home. I give
him instructions and point to a retailer where he could get equipment,
ingredients and a helping hand.

He asks where the AHA is headed and why he should join such a group. I
tell him "the AHA does not have the resources to do everything it wants.
What it does have is many committed homebrewers who want to see
homebrewing succeed nationally, so that they can continue to get good
ingredients and advice locally. The AHA is more than Paul Gatza and
Brian Rezac and Zymurgy magazine. The AHA is each individual member. The
AHA is everyone who wants to participate. It is the homebrewers in the
Hudson Valley who have volunteered their help in investigating the
possibility of planning and running a homebrew jambeeree in the
Catskills tied to the first round NHC site that the AHA botched so badly
in 1998. The AHA is the Kansas City-centered homebrewers who are
planning the agenda and marketing and running of the 1999 AHA
Conference. The AHA does not have the resources anymore to be anything
but a grassroots organization. My job as director as I see it is to
guide and push the transition of the AHA from the traditional nonprofit
"organization" into a member-driven "association." Frankly we would not
be having a 1999 Conference without the willingness and drive to make
their AHA succeed without the support of the volunteers in Kansas City.
Likewise with the whole NHC. The 760 homebrew clubs registered with the
AHA are already organized and the AHA will be seeking greater
involvement of clubs in planning and running AHA events. In addition the
AHA Board of Advisors is spread geographically to provide support
throughout the country. The Board has determined that its membership
should be elected by the general membership of the AHA." 

He asks why he should join the AHA. I tell him "you should join if you
want information that will help you learn to brew or brew better beer.
You should join if support the social aspects of brewing or enjoying
homebrew. You should join if you want homebrewing legalized in every
state. You should join for the camaraderie and learning derived from
participating in AHA events. If you plan on going to the GABF, you
should certainly join for the savings and openness of the members-only
tasting. I tell him if you support the national promotion of homebrewing
by a nonprofit group, you should join the AHA." I tell him that "if he
wants perfection, he will not find it in the AHA, perhaps nowhere. What
you will find is commitment to the members and the hobby." 

Apologies for the length of this post/novel. I'll try to work up a
screenplay next.  
   
-- 
Paul Gatza
Director
American Homebrewers Association	(303) 447-0816 x 122
736 Pearl Street			(303) 447-2825 -- FAX
PO Box 1679				paulg at aob.org -- E-MAIL
Boulder, CO 80306-1679			info at aob.org -- AOB INFO
U.S.A.					http://www.beertown.org -- WEB


Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 04:44:07 -0800
From: "J.Kish" <jjkish at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Air in Corny

 Poirier, Bob wrote:
>Subject: Diffusion Confusion

>of air before you rack your precious brew into it, how can you be
>sure that you've gotten rid of all the air??
 .
  Bob,  Have you ever realized that you can blow some CO2
into your Corny keg backwards, into the liquid line, causing it
to bubble through your beer?  Stop the CO2 after the foam
starts coming out of the loose cover, then clamp it shut.  That
way, there is absolutely NO air in the Corny! Now, Pressurize!
    Joe Kish



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Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 18:54:36 EST
From: BrwyFoam at aol.com
Subject: CAP; New Hop Varieties (G. J. Fix)

There is no doubt that many turn of the century American Pilsners were brewed
with 6-row barley.  I do, however, reject the notion that this type of malt is
essential to producing an authentic version.  My formulation, which has won an
award in the AHA nationals for the last two years, uses domestic 2-row, flaked
maize and is FWH with the domestic aroma hops (Crystal and Tettnang).  There
are several references (e.g., Nugy's and Zimmermann's books) which have
explicit recipes with similar versions.  Moreover, records show that various
breweries (e.g., Coors) have been using domestic 2-row malt throughout this
century.

Ever since CAPs became a recognized style (thanks to Peter Garofalo, Del
Lansing, and Jeff Renner for this!)  I have played around with several
versions.  To my palate those using 6-row malt and cluster hops seem crude
with rough edges not found in alternative versions.  Clearly, there are some
who completely disagree with this, but I do not see this as a conflict between
right and wrong.    Indeed, such disagreements can be traced back to the turn
of the century, and reflect the diverse ways American brewers responded to the
"Pilsner Revolution" that was sweeping through Europe at that time.

******************************************************************************
****

Last month I received some new hops from Hop Union.  Included are new
varieities:
(1)  Horizon - a high alpha hop with noble characteristics (e.g., low co-
humulone, low myrcene, high f/c ratio).
(2)  Santiam - a moderate alpha hop with noble characteristics.

I brewed a CAP with these hops, and the batch is currently in maturation.  I
promised to send Ralph Olsen of Hop Union some beer from this batch, and it is
my understanding that several others will be doing the same with other beer
styles.  If what we are tasting in our batch (still only three weeks old) is
any indication, the domestic hop quality bar has just gone up a couple of
notches!
Cheers,
George Fix


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Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 02:59:37 EST
From: VQuante at aol.com
Subject: funny smell

in hbd # 2899 Ian Lyons <ilyons at biochem.adelaide.edu.au> wrote:

>>> and SAFLAGER dried yeast bcs the Wyeast bohemian starter smelt funny <<<

I've made the experience, that Wyeast bohemian - but other czech pilsner
yeasts as well - always produces "funny" gases, in the starter as well as
during the first two or three days. Maybe sulfuric? But the beer - after
bottling and lagering for three or four weeks as a minimum - tastes wonderful.
No sulfuric clues left.

Volker R. Quante

Brewing and working in Warsaw / Poland, but definitely a German Homebrewer


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Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 09:01:13 -0500
From: "Mark Nelson" <menelson at mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Rye home-malting (Alan T)

Alan T posted in #2899 about home-malting rye, and mentions a toxic spore
that can grow on rye.

I've been reading Harold McGee's "On Food and Cooking" which is sort of a
food science book for laymen.  I've made it through the chapters on grains,
and am struggling to keep from skipping ahead to the chapter on
fermentation.  Anyway, back to rye...

He says, in brief, that rye has culinary properties, and if the spore is
present, has pathological and pharmacological properties too.  The
fungus/spore is called ergot and was responsible for frequent epidemics of
Holy Fire or Saint Anthony's Fire from the 11th to the 16th centuries.
There are two main sets of symptons:  "progressive gangrene in which
extremities hurt, went numb, turned black, shrank, and dropped off; and more
sporadically mental derangement, twitching and fits" (p. 236).

As it turns out ergot was also used as a drug - to hasten labor during
childbirth, for one.  Later the Swiss scientist Albert Hofmann, while
researching some of the toxins in ergot, including lysergic acid, discovered
lysergic acid diethylamide or LSD.

Just thought I'd pass this info along since I just two or three nights ago
read a good source for rye and ergot.

Back to lurking

Mark Nelson
Atlanta GA
 - where we're trying to repeal the 6% limit on beer -
www.beerinfo.com/worldclassbeer




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Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 09:09:29 -0500
From: "Nathaniel P. Lansing" <delbrew at compuserve.com>
Subject: re-fusels

Ooops, through the cutting and pasting and transferring
through different applications to get my post out as ASCII,
things came out wrong. I meant to say, but it came out
confusing: Fusels can come from high fermentation temperature,
low pitching rates, and inadequate oxygenation.
The large starter I recommended is to avoid the low pitching
rates and will minimize the effects of under-oxygenation.
The racking off the cold break is just a suggestion to act as
kind of "yeast washing" to eliminate dead yeast and trub left
from the yeast cake. A small bit of cold-break carryover is
benificial for yeast nutrition. Hope this is more lucid.

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Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 09:28:11 -0500
From: RobertJ <pbsys at pbsbeer.com>
Subject: Re Converted Keg Mash Tun

Robert Phelan" <rephelan at excite.com> wrote


I need a little help.  Every converted keg mash tun I'vve seen uses a false
bottom or equalilent with some sort of bottom to side siphon for extraction.
My basic question is, WHY?

Wouldn't simply draining straight out the bottom of the tun work just the
same?  If not, why not?
- -----

Because a keg has a concave bottom there is a larger amount of "wasted"
space under a false bottom than with a pot. One solution to reduce the
amount of wasted wort has been to drain from the very bottom (center) of
the keg. However, a center drain in the bottom of the keg would require
piping pass through the burner, making setup more difficult.  Also wort in
the drain pipe will become overheated and may carmelize. To avoid these
problems, many have used a siphon center drain.

In the kegs we have converted we prefer to use a side drain with the false
bottom fitted just above the drain to reduce the space under the screen as
much as possible and avoid the need for a siphon


Bob
Precision Brewing Systems URL http://www.pbsbeer.com


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Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 09:14:05 -0600
From: "Richard Scott" <rscott57 at flash.net>
Subject: Favorite Books

Thank you to the many (!!) who responded (HBD & direct email) to my request
for your favorite books.  I did a quick compilation and list below the
responses, generally in the order of frequency of recommendation (MJ's in
total).  I'm sure there are more, but with only a few days remaining for
Christmas shopping, I wanted to put this list in Wifey's hands.

Homebrewing Vol. 1 by Al Korzonas
Designing Great Beers by Ray Daniels
Michael Jackson's Beer Companion
Michael Jackson's Pocket Guide to Beer
Michael Jackson's Great Beers of Belgium
Dave Miller's Homebrewing Guide
Beer: Tap into the Art and Science of Brewing by Charles Bamforth
Brew Your Own British Real Ale by Graham Wheeler & Roger Protz
Clone Brews by Tess & Mark Szamatulski

and, yes, I had one recommendation / affirmation of:

The New Complete Joy of Homebrewing by Charles Papazian

Merry Christmas to all!
Richard Scott
Coppell (Dallas) Texas



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Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 09:46:01 -0600
From: rlabor at lsumc.edu (LaBorde, Ronald)
Subject: HBD Web Page

>>>>
From: pbabcock <pbabcock at mail.oeonline.com>

If you're referring to our site (HTTP://HBD.ORG), the information IS there
via links to many quality homebrewing and homebrewing club pages. Also,
the HBD site is being redeveloped offline to enhance its utility for those
who use it.
<<<<

Yes, the HBD web site has been really spiffed up.  Recently, I took a look
at it and was impressed with the changes and additions.  I encourage
everyone to take a look, and if you like what you see, remember, 'tis the
season'!  Sending them some support would be greatly appreciated and well
used.

Ron

Ronald La Borde - Metairie, Louisiana - rlabor at lsumc.edu




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Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 09:52:51 -0600
From: rlabor at lsumc.edu (LaBorde, Ronald)
Subject: RE: Converted keg mash tun

>>>>
From: "Robert Phelan" <rephelan at excite.com>

I need a little help.  Every converted keg mash tun I'vve seen uses a false
bottom or equalilent with some sort of bottom to side siphon for extraction.
My basic question is, WHY?
<<<<

Cuz most people apply heat at the bottom!  A ball valve can be difficult to
adjust for flow at room temps, try it at 212F.

Ron

Ronald La Borde - Metairie, Louisiana - rlabor at lsumc.edu




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Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 08:08:41 -0800
From: Norman Odette <nodette at earthlink.net>
Subject: Grain mills

With all the recent discussion about grain mills, I was surprised not to

see mention of the mill in BREW WARE (Lutzen & Stevens).
I built one two years and 50 some batches ago for about ten dollars and
couldn't ask for a better mill.
I followed the plans in the book for the most part and now have a
rugged,
dependable machine and it comes with a life-time warranty!

Norm




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Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 11:29:50 -0500
From: Skip Jonas <skip at eclipse.net>
Subject: Not quite a 'Darwin Award' attempt but...

A recent Courier News (Bridgewater, NJ) newspaper article:

"Prison Plot to Make Booze Goes Sour:

"North Brunswick [NJ]: A plot to ferment homemade booze turned rotten when
more than two dozen inmates at the Middlesex County Adult Correction Center
came down with violent diarrhea, officials said.

"About 30 inmates in the same housing unit went to the jail's infirmary
Monday and Tuesday complaining of severe intestinal distress, Warden
Rudolph Johnson said. Of those, 10 were still so sick [that] they remained
in the infirmary Wednesday. All are expected to recover.

"Corrections officers Tuesday searched the housing unit and found a foul
liquid in a garbage can, Johnson said. Inmates told officers it was meant
to be alcohol.

"Several inmates who work in the jail kitchen smuggled apples and oranges
into the housing unit, where the fruit was left to rot.

"Then the inmates stole bread, intending for its yeast to ferment the
mixture into a fruity liquor.

" It didn't, and instead stayed a combination of rotten fruit juice laced
with moldy bread. The inmates drank it anyway.

"It is against the rules to smuggle food out of the kitchen or to attempt
to make homemade alcoholic beverages, but no charges will be brought.
Johnson said [that] the inmates may already have suffered enough."

 ...they probably hadn't read the AOB's style guide to Lambics....

Cheers!

Skip Jonas
Hampton, NJ




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Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 08:29:27 -0800
From: John_E_Schnupp at amat.com
Subject: RE: LD Carlson Fruit Flavoring

>Jeff writes:
>(stuff deleted)
>>I have two options: add the flavor when I rack to secondary or add it at
>>bottling.

Skill says:
>I would add it at bottling.  These are the small bottles, right?  Like 2
>ounces?   I have seen these recommend using the entire bottle for a 5
>gallon batch but, I would start out small and work my way up.  Add 1/4
>bottle in the bottling bucket, stir and taste.  Add another 1/4, etc.
>If you add too much initially, you're hosed.

I've used the peach and cherry.  The bottles I got from my local shop were
4 oz.  I can tell you that the flavour diminished over time.  Also in both
cases I used the whole 4 oz in a 5 gallon batch.  I don't think it's
overkill, but I do think if you only added 1/4 - 1/2 the bottle you would
be hard pressed to actually taste the flavour.  I added it when I racked
to my secondary so this my have had an effect on flavour strength.  The
beer was in my secondary 1-2 weeks before bottling.

John Schnupp, N3CNL
Colchester, VT
95 XLH 1200




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Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 12:00:47 -0500
From: Rod Schaffter <schaffte at delanet.com>
Subject: Things growing in my moist freezer

Paul is having problems with mold in the freezer:

(SNIP!)

>For what its worth, I don't often open the chest freezer (allowing 
more humid air in), and I have a typical wood collar around the top
(pine 2x10 boards sealed at the joints with silicone).

The moisture is probably coming in through the pores of the wood.
Covering the inside (and perhaps the outside while you are at it) 
of your extension with 7 or 10 mil polyethylene film should help.
Lap it down an inch or two onto the metal and secure all of the 
joints with pastic packing tape.  Painting the wood with an oil-
based gloss paint might also work

Cheers!
Rod Schaffter
Hockessin, DE


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Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 09:10:35 -0800
From: "rrscott" <rrscott at jps.net>
Subject: Re: LD Carlson Fruit Flavoring

RE: LD Carlson Fruit Flavoring

Skill writes:  "I would start out small and work my way up.  Add 1/4 bottle
in the bottling bucket, stir and taste.  Add another 1/4, etc."

One data point: I added all 4 oz of raspberry flavoring to a 5 gal US batch
as the fire was turned off from the boil (Munich dunkel style with only
about 5 IBUs of Tettnanger, steam fermented at 70 with White's SF lager
yeast) .  It's been lagering in a keg at 40 degrees for 5 months and is very
well liked, especially by my bride.  It started out with a bitter note that
mellowed out completely after about 2 months lagering.  The malt and
raspberry flavors balance well. IMHO the 4 oz was not too much, and besides
the flavor at addition is not what it will be after aging.  It's a great
dessert or after dinner beer worth making again.

Bob



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Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 17:31:24 GMT
From: huskers at voyager.net (Jason Henning)
Subject: Rye toxins and built-in home breweries

Alan T AlannnnT at aol.com in 2899 says:

+ All this talk about homemalting makes me want to point this out. 
Malting rye
+ at home can be dangerous. I have checked this out in a few published 
sources
+ and they all say the same. There is a toxic spore you can grow on rye, 
and
+ it's allegedly very toxic. I hate to be so vague here. Maybe Al K. can 
help
+ with more specifics.

Ergot, a fungus that grows on rye kernels produces the toxin that's
lysergic acid, the principal ingredient in LSD. Some historians believe
the Salem Witch Trails can be linked to rotting rye.

I just knew someday I'd be able to use something from that "Drugs in
American Culture" class I took in college.

- ----

AlK and other have been talking about designing breweries in their
homes. I too have thought about this. I plan on fire proofing the whole
works. That's means double sheetrocking. The seams are taped and
staggered. I'll fire chalk around any penetrations (gas line,
electrical). And a good door, either solid wood or metal. I'll also have
a disconnect for the power and a shut off for the gas on both sides of
the door.

Either that or I'll have a stand alone building in the backyard.

Cheers,
Jason Henning
Big Red Alchemy and Brewing
Clawson, Michigan

Just brew it

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Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 17:46:15 GMT
From: huskers at voyager.net (Jason Henning)
Subject: Malt Advocate

Hello-

Malt Advocate is nice quarterly magazine to complement your brewing
literature. It's a rag devoted to the appreciation of scotch, bourbon,
whisky and beer. It's not about home brewing per se but does have a lot
of side bar type info I like reading about. I picked up a copy at a
bookstore and subscribed the same day.

It's $14.95 a year, $26.95 for two years. Here's their info:

Malt Advocate
3416 Oak Hill Rd.
Emmaus, PA  18049
1-800-610-MALT
http://www.whiskeypages.com
maltman999 at aol.com

This magazine would make a great stocking stuffer.

Cheers,
Jason Henning
Big Red Alchemy and Brewing
Clawson, Michigan

Stick that in your tun and mash it

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Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 09:45:20 -0800
From: "C and K" <Cuckold at cornerpub.com>
Subject: Loss of brewpubs

From: "Tim Green" <timgreen at ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Loss of Brewpubs

One question on the below comments, have you tried the "Michelob (aka Bud)"
microbrew style beers?  You may see them as a threat, but I see brews at
$8.00 a six-pack that is only marginally better in quality as a threat to
my wallet.
Tim

Actually, I agree with you, Tim.  The Michelob Heffeweissen is not too bad.
 However, how many major breweries in the U.S. are there now, compared with
20 yrs. ago?  They've all merged!  It's all for the almighty
buck/stockholders.  I can see it now.   AB buys out Widmer, then shows them
how to brew a better Heffe

Chris
Seldom correct...but never without doubt


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---