---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com


Contents:
  Using Little Apple's recipe for Big Brew ("Brian Rezac")
  Brew room Exhaust (gdhipple)
  Burlington, Princeton and Eugene and  Michigan trip ("Bruce Garner")
  Dixie Beer (LEAVITDG)
  Brewery Design (Al Korzonas)
  Back Road not Brick Road ("Bruce Garner")
  AHA: to bash or not to bash (Alan Edwards)
  Getting yeast cake out of a carboy (Elijah Daniel)
  St.Louis Brews competition results posted (Jack Baty)
  The AHA (Jeff Pursley)
  Yeast Worries!! ("Tim Szala")
  Got them Carbon Monoxide blues... (Hmbrwrpete)
  Mills and Buckets (Jack Schmidling)
  Charlie, are you out there? (ThomasM923)
  Smoke Peated v.s. Smoked (Ted McIrvine)
  Re: Acronyms?  Is there a FAQ somewhere. (Steve Jackson)
  re: books and such (Mikey Beck)
  To Brian Rezac and Rob Moline, I apologize (Jason Henning)
  Low Attentuation (Dan Listermann)
  Re: HELP-low attentuation (Jeff Renner)
  Weissheimer Pils? (Paul Shick)
  peat smoked malt (Stephen Cavan)
  To Al K on acronyms (Rod Prather)
  Re: Fries with that beer, Sir (Rod Prather)
  Legal status of homebrewing and AHA (Lee Menegoni)
  Re: Acronyms?  Is there a FAQ somewhere. (Joel Plutchak)
  Paul Gatza/Brian Rezac and the AHA board (ThE GrEaT BrEwHoLiO)
  Badger's Medieval Ale Recipe ("Greg Lorton")
  (R) Paul Gatza's fable (Badger Roullett)
  Addressing the Digest (pbabcock)


Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy!

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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 12:31:14 -0700
From: "Brian Rezac" <brian at aob.org>
Subject: Using Little Apple's recipe for Big Brew

In HBD #2900, Jason Henning wrote:
>Subject: Headspace o2, Brian Rezac and X-mas books
>
>Quite a few people tout Brain Rezac as one of the good guys over at
the
>AHA. Is he? I wonder.
>
>Brian helped Rob Moline further his personnel vendetta against his
>former employer, Little Apple Brewing Company. Brian used Rob's
stolen
>Big 12 barleywine recipe as the cornerstone of the AHA's Big Brew '98
>event. Although Rob formulated (Rob also brewed it and was solely
>responsible for getting the beer to GABF where it won BOS) the
recipe,
>it is still the property of the Little Apple.
>
>Where would the AHA be had the Little Apple filed suit and won? I
don't
>know what kind of a judgement could come of that but I bet it's 6
>figures. I can't imagine putting the limited resources of the AHA at
>risk like that.

Jason,

First of all, I would never intentionally put the AHA at risk.  The
recipe we used for Big Brew '98, Big 10/20 Barley Wine was based on
Little Apple Brewing Company's Big 12 Barley Wine and we attributed
that to them.  If they could file a suit against us for that we would
all have to stop discussing clone recipes and there wouldn't be any
clone recipe books.  (I don't understand this subject as much as Louis
Bonham.  Hopefully, he can add a better explanation.)

A couple corrections - Big 12 didn't win BOS.  It won the Gold Medal
in the Barley Wine category of the 1996 GABF.  Also I, personally,
don't think that Rob has a vendetta against Little Apple.  There were
some rough times and differences of opinions while he was there and
when he left, but he's at another brewery and he has moved on.  During
that time, however, I remember him handling himself and the situation
in a very professional manner.  Even at times when a few homebrewers
thought that a vendetta was an appropriate response, Rob kept his cool
throughout.

We chose the recipe out of respect for Rob, his achievements and his
contributions to the homebrewing community.  But to call it "the
cornerstone of the AHA's Big Brew '98 event", is incorrect.  The
cornerstone of Big Brew is that all of us homebrewers come together
and simply brew a batch of beer together.  The particular recipe, the
beer style or even if the beer isn't a particular style, are all
secondary to us just brewing together.  Rob was in to that as well.

As for me being one of the good guys over at the AHA, I wonder as
well.  I am not perfect.  I wish I could get more done faster.  I get
frustrated with the "change takes time" thing.  But I can tell you
that Paul and I are working to move the AHA into a more member-driven
organization.  And, you are correct, we do have limited resources, but
we are always open for suggestions.

Brian Rezac
Administrator
American Homebrewers Association
736 Pearl Street, Boulder, CO  80302
303 447-0816, ext. 121
brian at aob.org        http://beertown.org



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Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 13:34:04 -0500
From: gdhipple at mmm.com
Subject: Brew room Exhaust


Al Korzonas writes -

> The ventilation over the kettle & mashtun is the one part on which I would
>like some design help.

I brew in an old house basement and exhaust my 'brewing fumes' (heat and 
moisture) Basically I use a powered dryer vent arrangement.

My basic components are:

     - outdoor dryer vent with animal screen
     - damper (to prevent cold air back flow)
     - various duct work connectors, elbows, etc. (as required)
     - flexible 4" dryer vent tube
     - a $5 blower from a surplus store
     - a 5 amp dimmer control (fan speed control)
     - a plastic wash tub from someplace like KMart

Install the dryer vent like any dryer vent. I mounted the blower between 
the joists in the ceiling along with the dimmer control so it lined up 
with the vent. I cut a hole in the center/bottom of the wash tub and 
attached a 4" duct connector. This hangs from the ceiling inverted over 
my brew kettle to act as an adjustible hood (I can raise and lower it as 
needed).

I don't have any fresh air supply. The old house leaks enough that I 
don't need to punch in any more holes intentionally. If you wanted to 
added an air make-up line (as in a new construction), I would put a 
simple air-to-air heat-exchanger (available at building supply stores) on 
the discharge side of the exhaust to reclaim some of the heat (it 
actually gets fairly hot - over 100 deg). Do not 'power' (add a fan) to 
the fresh air supply. It should make-up only what is expelled. Otherwise 
you might cool the exhausted air too much and have condensation problems.

You can see my basic set-up in a picture at:

     http://members.aol.com/garyh20/wakefield/graphics/boil.gif

You could also find a new/used kitchen or bathroom exhaust vent and mount 
it above the brewing area. My set up gives me more power (the 1 amp 
blower can move about 2,000 cfm at full throttle) and the flexibility to 
locate the hood where it is needed and get out of the way when it's not.

Do yourself a favor and install a CO monitor as well. The plug-in type, 
with a digital ppm level display.

Hope this is somewhat helpful.



Gary D. Hipple
3M / Filtration Products Laboratory
Bldg. 60-1W-17
2465 Lexington Ave. - South
Mendota Heights, MN  55120
**************************
   voice: 612/736-5627
     FAX: 612/733-6349
   email: gdhipple at mmm.com
**************************



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Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 13:33:19 -0600
From: "Bruce Garner" <bpgarner at mailbag.com>
Subject: Burlington, Princeton and Eugene and  Michigan trip

New business and old business:

I have daughters returning for XMAS to Madison, WI from Burlington, VT,
Princeton, NJ and Eugene, OR. They are looking for suggestions for special
and local bottled beers to bring dad for the holidays. The wish list
includes but is not limited to Alts; lactic Wits; English Milds, Bitters and
Porters which are the styles I brew. Are the Alaska Brewing beers available
in Eugene? Private email is probably best in this situation.

A belated report: The Madison Homebrewers trip to Michigan the weekend
before Thanksgiving was a big success. 11 breweries in 3 days was quite an
undertaking. We stapped in two cornies of brew from Angelic and JT Whitney's
and set off at 9:30 Friday morning in a 22 person bus. This proved a great
way to do a tour like this. We talked and played cards while Ursula handled
the driving. (We'll have to find another driver next time. We parked early
enough each night that Ursula was able to walk around with us in K'zoo and
GR: She's since joined the club.) The folks at Arcadia in Battle Creek; Old
Penninsula, Kraftbrau and Bell's in Kalamazoo; Roffey's in Holland; Arena,
Grand Rapids Brewing, BOB and Canal Street in Grand Rapids; and Brick Road
in LaPorte provided good beer, appreciated tours and six packs, cornies and
half barrels to be enjoyed and remembered for weeks to come. Thanks to all
of our hosts and tour guides. An aside: some of the brewers I spoke with did
not know of the HBD and are interested in subscribing. I will be sending
them our address.

Bruce Garner



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Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 14:50:08 -0500 (EST)
From: LEAVITDG at SPLAVA.CC.PLATTSBURGH.EDU
Subject: Dixie Beer

I recently tried the Dixie brew and liekd it.  Perhaps the previous
poster had a bad bottle?
Note: it is not my style, but I found it to be refreshing...probably
better for a summer brew.
 ..Darrell


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Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 14:45:07 -0600 (CST)
From: Al Korzonas <korz at xnet.com>
Subject: Brewery Design

I received many emails on Brewery Design.  Rather than summarise them
all, I believe that Harlan's pretty much covered all the points that
everyone else mentioned.   One thing that Harlan didn't mention that
Lee Menegoni did, was to make a separate room for malt milling (because
malt husks are notorious for harbouring lactic bacteria).  Another thing
that Lee mentioned was to use fireproof wallboard even if I plan to tile
on top of it.  My intent was indeed to make the room out of wallboard
and then later (after occupancy permit issuance) tile it.

Thanks everyone for your help.  This last week end, however, we got
some prices on a room addition and we may be moving sooner than
expected.  We either needed to (A) add a room or (B) move to a bigger
house and it looks like it's going to be plan B.  You can bet that
there will be a room in the new house for a brewery, but the custom-
built house will have to wait.

With Harlan's permission, I'm posting what he suggested:

>From blacksab at midwest.net Fri Dec 11 11:48 CST 1998
>X-Sender: blacksab at midwest.net
>Mime-Version: 1.0
>Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 11:44:16 -0600
>To: korz at xnet.com
>From: blacksab at midwest.net (Harlan Bauer)
>Subject: Venting a brewery
>
>Al, you wrote:
>
>>On one of those "This Old House"-type of shows, I saw a heat exchanger for
>>fresh air supply.  I believe this is needed on some of the new super-
>>insulated houses which are virtually airtight
>
>It's called an air-to-air heat exchange. The "core" of these things look
>like a cube (~1-ft3) made up of many layers of what look like corrigated
>cardboard. This "cardboard" is actually made from a semi-permeable membrane
>(Gortex), and each layer of this "cardboard" is oriented 90* from it's
>neighbor, e.g.,
>
>/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
>================
>/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
>================ <--looked at from this side, the ='s would look like /\/\'s
>/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\    and the /\/\'s would look like ='s
>
>
>In this way, 2 sides serve as the pathway for cool, fresh air IN, and the
>other 2 sides serve to expel the warm, stale air OUT (the arrows show the
>direction of flow below):
>
>                      cold, fresh outside
>                      air IN (outside of house)
>                       _________________
>                       |               |
>                       |  <---         |
>cooled, stale inside   |   top view    | hot, stale inside 
>air OUT (outside of    |            |  | air OUT (inside of house)
>house)                 |           \|/ |
>                       |_______________|
>                       warmed, fresh outside
>                       air IN (inside of house)
>
>
>
>As they pass by, they exchange heat (This is one of those things that is
>easier to show than to explain).
>
>You are correct in thinking these are needed for superinsulated
>houses--specifically, ones with continuous vapor barriers. In such houses,
>there are literally no drafts, so the air in the house must be mechanically
>changed--x number of changes per hour. Rather than just venting out hot,
>stale air and replacing it with cold, fresh air, an A-A HE allows for some
>of the heat to be recaptured. 
>
>NOW, the reason it is made of a semi-permeable membrane is condensation.
>Superinsulated houses are notorious for high humidity levels. Hot, wet air +
>cold, dry air = condensation at the interface. 
>
>Therefore, I do not think this would be an appropriate use of the
>technology--you're going to generate so much steam that it will over load
>the core, and these cores aren't exactly cheap to replace.
>
>However, there are some solutions:
>
>1. use cold outside air to feed the flame
>
>2. use an exhaust hood or wall fan to vent the steam out. This will work
>fine. This is all we have at the brewery and it is perfectly adequate.
>
>3. use either low pressure propane or natural gas--high pressure burners are
>very inefficient and produce a lot of CO
>
>Recomendations:
>
>a. install a trench-type floor drain (don't say I didn't warn you!)
>
>b. install a hose that can handle both hot and cold domestic water
>
>c. make sure the entire room can be hosed down (incl. ceiling), tile is best
>
>d. build a walk-in cooler
>
>Want to know more? I'm fairly knowlegable in the area of enrgy efficient and
>solar desgn. Also, feel free to cc this to the digest if you think it would
>be of general interest. Also, I recall reading a funny article by Bill Owens
>on what he was going to do with all the steam when he first opened his brewery.
>
>TTYL,
>Harlan.
>
>
>          Harlan Bauer             ...malt does more than Milton can
>         Carbondale, IL               To justify God's ways to man.
>     <blacksab at midwest.net>                          --A.E. Houseman
                


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Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 14:48:37 -0600
From: "Bruce Garner" <bpgarner at mailbag.com>
Subject: Back Road not Brick Road

Correction: Madison Homebrewers went to Back Road Brewery not Brick Road in
LaPorte, IN

Bruce Garner



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Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 13:33:35 -0800 (PST)
From: Alan Edwards <ale at cisco.com>
Subject: AHA: to bash or not to bash

Jason Henning writes:
|  
| The reason most people post negative comment about the AHA is because
| they want a better AHA. There are a lot of problems with the AHA. To sit
| silent is almost as bad as tell others to keep their opinions to
| themselves.

I don't agree.  I simply don't care about the AHA's problems.
I don't need them.  For anything.  To be fair, there was a point
in time that I did get lots of useful information from Zymurgy...and I
paid them for it.  But they stopped delivering quality, so I stopped
paying them.  What have they done for you lately?

The HBD and Brewing Techniques is all I need.
And I would like to thank YOU ALL for that!

 -Alan in Fremont, CA


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Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 16:36:17 -0500
From: Elijah Daniel <Elijah.Daniel at digital.com>
Subject: Getting yeast cake out of a carboy

After reading with some astonishment the recent posts claiming to be
"neophyte questions" which are still over my head, I have a really basic
one.  Having just started brewing (2 extract batches), I am doing
single-stage fermentation in a 5 gallon carboy.  I am interested in
harvesting the yeast from the bottom of the carboy for use in future brewing
and/or baking experiments.  So how the heck do I get it out?  Or is everyone
who is reusing their yeast doing a primary fermentation in something with a
wider mouth?

Thanks for your help, and keep the brewing wizardry coming.

 -Eli Daniel
Brewing in Somerville, MA


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Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 16:18:39 -0600
From: Jack Baty <jack at wubios.wustl.edu>
Subject: St.Louis Brews competition results posted


The results of the 1998 St.Louis Brews Happy Holidays Homebrew Competition
have been posted
on the club's web site: http://www.stlbrews.org/

Thanks to all who supported the competition with their entries, prize
contributions, and judging
expertise.

Judging forms will be sent soon.  They may be in the mail as you read this.




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Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 19:20:19 -0600
From: Jeff Pursley <JPursley at Tulsa.E2M.net>
Subject: The AHA

I just read Paul Gatza's AHA version of A Christmas Carol.  I have been
brewing for only three years and I am sure I don't know all of the
stories and past problems associated with the AHA.  But it was only when
I discovered Zymurgy that I discovered the depth and breadth of this
great hobby.  

I too have been wondering when I would see some more services from the
AHA.  But this is an organization for homebrewers. It should be a
grassroots organization.  I like what Paul has to say about engaging the
homebrew clubs out there.  I do not see another national organization on
the horizon.  I believe that a national organization is necessary for us
to have strong regional and local organizations.  How can we make the
AHA stronger and better?  By joining an AHA-affiliated club.   By
offering constructive criticism and advice.  And by participating in AHA
competitions and festivals.  And if participation also means
volunteering, then we've discovered the best that the AHA can bring us:
fellowship with our fellow homebrewers.  I wish the best for the AHA.
And Merry Christmas to my fellow brewers out there on the HBD.

And lastly, I'm looking for fellow homebrewers to connect with here in
Tulsa, Oklahoma.  If FOAM is dead, let's start something new.  Come on
Tulsa, let's brew.

Jeff Pursley
Tulsa, Oklahoma


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Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 22:20:39 -0500
From: "Tim Szala" <tim.szala at mci.com>
Subject: Yeast Worries!!


Got a few quick questions.....I have recently begun brewing again after
a 5 year hiatus.  Coming from No.Cal where I didn't have very many 
opportunities to brew lagers because of the temperature constraints,
I am trying an Oktoberfest style lager.  My crawlspace maintains a 
temperature of approx. 58 degrees.  I used Wyeast 2206 (Bavarian).  I 
broke the yeast packet at 2 pm and let it rest for 11 hours before 
pitching it in a yeast starter  at  ~75 degrees.  The next day I brewed 
and pitched the starter (I did see increased yeast amounts and a little
krausen at the top, not much though) 17 hours later in wort  at  74 degrees. 
I immediately moved it to the 58 degree environment.  The problem is,
approx. 24 hours later I see no fermentation activity.  

My questions: 

Was the yeast selection appropriate for the style attempted and fermentation
temperatures? What else would have been better? 

Did I let the yeast rest long enough prior to initiating the starter? 

Was the pitch temperature appropriate? 

Will/should fermentation activity pick up in the next 24 hours?  

Is 58 degrees too warm?

If it doesn't what are my options? re-pitch, etc. 


Thanks, Tim 

    


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Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 22:19:24 EST
From: Hmbrwrpete at aol.com
Subject: Got them Carbon Monoxide blues...

First off, thanks to all of you who helped me with my flat Weizenbock problem.
It carbonated nicely. Thanks again!

Here's another one for you...

I bought a Superb brew stove from East Coast/ Precision Brew supply this past
summer. I planned on using it in the basement so I wouldn't have to go outside
in the dead of winter. I finally ran the extra gas line to the "brewery" put
up the range hood, vented outside, and fired up the burner. Within 15 minutes
my CO detectors went off. Upwards of 100ppm in 15mins.

After a few phone calls to PBS, the gas company and my friend the registered
plumber the consensus opinion was toss a gas appliance regulator on that
sucker and brew til your hearts content! So today I did that. Fired it up and
after 15 minutes...nothing. After 30 minutes...nothing. So I got cocky and put
on my 15 gallon Polarware kettle. 5 minutes in I hit 31ppm. Another 5 minutes
88ppm. 5 more minutes go by for a total of 15 minutes with the kettle on the
burner and I'm up to 128ppm (yes, there was water in the kettle). I took the
kettle off and 3 minutes later the reading was 108ppm. 2 minutes after that
88ppm, I then shut down the burner scratched myself and said, "Hmph."

For grins, and because my two children were there, I had put a CO detector in
the living room. Luckily no alarms. But I was getting a reading of 28ppm. I
know it's low but with a 4 year old and a 2 year old tossed in to the equation
it's still too high.

So what gives? I had 2 fans going in the basement. I adjusted the flame as
best as possible (still some orange showing), lowered the range hood,
redirected the fans and even partially enclosed the burner area with cement
board walls! 

Should I totally enclose the burner area as a fellow club member suggested? Do
I need a bigger rangehood, is the size of the kettle, 19" across, vs the size
of the burner, 12" across, spreading the flame out so much that it's pushing
the CO out? If so would I be better off using a converted keg (taller and
slimmer) for boiling and make the polarware into a mash tun?

I'm stumped, your help is needed and very much appreciated!

Pete Gottfried
Buffalo, NY

PS Hurry, this beautiful weather can't last much longer ;)


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Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 21:22:25 -0800
From: Jack Schmidling <arf at mc.net>
Subject: Mills and Buckets

It has been pointed out that a mill can be difficult to deal with on
a bucket and that mounting it to a table is a superior way of dealing
with it.  I won't argue that crushing carapils over a bucket can, at
times, seem like wrestling an aligator but it is simply one way that
our mill can be used and for convenience and portability, it can't be
beat.

Having said that, there is no law that says our mill must be used
on a bucket and it can just as easily be clamped or bolted to a table.
On the other hand, the other mill in question can not be used on a
bucket because of its upside-down design.

js


- -- 

Visit our WEB pages:     http://user.mc.net/arf

ASTROPHOTO OF THE WEEK..... New Every Monday



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Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 00:48:34 EST
From: ThomasM923 at aol.com
Subject: Charlie, are you out there?

Volker R. Quante wrote concerning the "uvular r":

"...Definitely not. Our southern neighbors, the Austrians, sometimes do, maybe
also some Bavarians, but most Germans do not. They roll the "r" in the back of
the mouth - the so called "uvular r", performed with the fluttering uvula."

Fluttering uvula...sounds like a name for a C. Papazion recipe, i.e.
Fluttering Uvula Belgian Steam Ale...; )

Thomas Murray
Maplewood, NJ


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Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 01:59:38 -0800
From: Ted McIrvine <McIrvine at ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Smoke Peated v.s. Smoked

There are actually several types of smoked malt; German smoked malt
(over wood, Beechwood, I think) for making Bamburg-style Rauchbier, and
Peat-smoked malt for making Scotch Ale.  Hugh Baird now markets a
"lightly peat-smoked malt" and this has caused havoc with my
award-winning recipe.

Some Scotch ale recipes that beer judges in New York rated highly had
about 2% roasted barley and 4-6% peat-smoked malt.  (I've never used
Beechwood-smoked malt in a Scotch ale and never would.)  The new Hugh
Baird formulation is much milder, and I haven't figured out how to
adjust my recipes.  If anyone has data on the Hugh Baird "lightly
peat-smoked malt" I'd love to hear from them.

To me, one of the great things about homebrewing is that we don't have
to have recipes that AHA Beer judges like.  You like peaty/smoky scotch,
I like peaty/smoky scotch (Lagavulin rules!) so a Scotch ale with 1/2
lb. of strongly peat-smoked malt is a possibility.  I've used as much as
1 lb. and the Scotch addicts went wild.  (But the beer judges gave me
first prize for the cowardly version with 4 oz.)

Not everyone will like this beer.  But when Budweiser is the
best-selling beer in America, why worry about what everyone else likes?

Ted McIrvine

> 
> Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 08:24:06 -0500
> From: Rod Prather <rodpr at iquest.net>
> Subject: Smoke Peated v.s. Smoked (was liquid smoke)
> 
> If you want a smoked brew, I would use smoked malt, about 1/2 to 1 lb.
> This is not to be confused with smoked peated malt, I have never used it,
> but have heard many horror stories about it.
> 
> So what is the difference.  I thought the smoked peated malt was used in
> Scotch Ale.  I have also heard that anything over 3% to 5% will definately
> mess up your brew.  Being a Scotch lover, I have particular fancy for a true
> smoky scotch ale.
>


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Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 05:18:09 -0800 (PST)
From: Steve Jackson <stevejackson at rocketmail.com>
Subject: Re: Acronyms?  Is there a FAQ somewhere.

IN HBD #2901 (Dec. 15, 1998), Rod Prather (rodpr at iquest.net) wrote:

>>>>
Does anyone have a FAQ on this echo and acronyms used with their
meanings.
I know most of them are common beer acro's.  Although I have
understood a
lot of the basic chemistry for brewing for years, I am not that savvy
to the
hobby and would like to be able to understand some of the discussions
here a
bit better.
<<<<

It's not a FAQ per se, but there is a list of frequent brewing-related
acronyms located at http://brewery.org/brewery/infobase/Acronyms.html

Rod continued:
>>>>
Examples:  CAP, FWH, AOB, AIK, NHC, BJCP (Beer Judge Certification
Program
got that one), GABF, BOS, AIK, HMWP, MMWP, LMWP and others.
<<<<

For the ones I remember off the top of my head: CAP=Classic American
Pilsner (AKA Pre-Prohibition Lager); FWH=First Wort Hopping;
AOB=Association of Brewers, the parent org. of the American
Homebrewers Assoc.; AIK=Actually, AlK, our own Al Korzonas, a frequent
HBD contributor, author and pretty decent guy; NHC=National Homebrew
Competition; GABF=Great American Beer Festival; HMWP, MMWP, LMWP=High
Molecular, Medium Molecular and Low Molecular Weight Protein.

As for Rod's other questions, a good source for this type of
information is the Brewery's library. The Brewery
(http://brewery.org), is maintained by Karl Lutzen, one of the HBD
mavens, and is an all-around good site. The library has dozens of
articles, ranging from beginner's guides to advanced discussions of
things like protein rests or first wort hopping.

 -Steve in Indianapolis
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free  at yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com



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Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 06:04:33 -0800 (PST)
From: Mikey Beck <stilts121 at yahoo.com>
Subject: re: books and such


Dave Sapsis <DAVE_SAPSIS at fire.ca.gov> wrote:

>First off, Dr Lewis is a Welshman, not a "Brit", a >distinction that
>would likely be honorably adhered to if it was you.


I reply:

A Welshman is a Briton...hence his distinction as a Brit.  In fact, a
Welshman has the most claim to the designation of a "Brit" because an
Englishman is generally of Anglo-Saxon-Norman descent, while a Scot is
of Irish-Norseman descent.  A Welshman is a descendent (generally
speaking here of course) of the Celto-Britains who inhabited the Isle
of Great Britain (hence the name Briton or Brit) when the Julius
Caesar first invaded.  

Sorry to split hairs but this is a touchy subject with me :)

cheers,
mikey.
BSSC/121

_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free  at yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com



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Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 14:49:51 GMT
From: huskers at voyager.net (Jason Henning)
Subject: To Brian Rezac and Rob Moline, I apologize

To Brian Rezac and Rob Moline, I apologize.

I spoke harshly of their actions concerning the Big Brew '98 event. I
spoke with half the facts and none of the correct conclusions. I was
clearly wrong. 

Again, I regret my words and sincerely apologize.

Respectfully,
Jason Henning
Big Red Alchemy and Brewing
Clawson, Michigan

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Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 09:45:46 -0500
From: Dan Listermann <72723.1707 at compuserve.com>
Subject: Low Attentuation

Timo Peters writes that he is getting poor attentuation with his all 
grain
brews.  The best cure for this is longer mash times and / or lower mash
temperatures.  If he does a mashout or starts his sparge right after a
negative iodine test without waiting for the larger sugars to be reduced,

he will get a high final gravity every time.  I mash a minimum of 90
minutes anymore.  


Also I recommend against shaking carboys to aerate.  It is not very
effective ( there is little air in them when shaking ) and, more
importantly, it is dangerous.  One could disembowel one's self.  It only
takes one time!

Dan  Listermann               dan at listermann.com

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Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 08:32:06 -0500
From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu>
Subject: Re: HELP-low attentuation

>Timo Peters <tpeters at zfn.uni-bremen.de>, who no doubt knows how to
>pronounce "kraeusen" and "Zum Uerige," writes that he is having problems
>with underattenuation.

I'd like to suggest another possibility that you didn't mention - high
conversion temperature.  A thermometer that reads only a few degrees low
will cause you to mash at, say, 70 C when you are aiming at 67 C.  This
would lead to less fermentable worts such as your 67% AA Pils, although
probably not the 54% Old Ale.  That could be caused by fermentation
problems unless you were really off on your mash temperatures.

A 2 liter starter is on the low side for a 5 gallon (19 l) batch,
especially for lagers; 4 liters is better.  Best is to ferment often enough
to reuse yeast.  In my experience it keeps for weeks in the fridge.

Sufficient aeration can be accomplished without pure O2, especially if you
pitch an adequate amount of yeast.

I'm sure others will have more suggestions.

Jeff

 -=-=-=-=-
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan c/o nerenner at umich.edu
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943. 




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Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 10:10:14 -0500 (EST)
From: Paul Shick <SHICK at JCVAXA.jcu.edu>
Subject: Weissheimer Pils?



Hello All,

	I've got 55 lbs each of Weissheimer Pils and Munich on
order at my homebrew shop, preparing for some serious lager production
over the next few weeks.  So far, the plan is to do 10 gallons of 
German Pilsner, followed by 5 gallons each of Maibock and Doppelbock,
each on the yeast cake of one carboy.  Visions (smells?) of Hallertau 
Mittlefrueh are dancing through my head....

	My question concerns the mashing schedule for the Weissheimer
Pils malt.  A year or two back, someone posted a "typical" analysis for
this malt, listing a Kolbach index in the 38 or 39 range.  Looking at
the Weissheimer web page, though, I can't find any analysis for their
malt products, only for this year's harvest of various strains.  The
Kolbach indices listed are all in the 42's. The protein levels are all
reasonably low.

	Does anyone have a malt analysis for Weissheimer Pils?  Is the
Kolbach index low enough to require a rest at 131F or 135F?  Failing that,
has anyone used a recent vintage of Wiessheimer Pils?  Did you get away 
without a protein rest?  Any clarity issues?  

	As usual, thanks in advance for any help.  I hope that you find
time for holiday lagering, too.


			Paul Shick
			Basement Brewing in Cleveland Hts, OH



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Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 09:37:48 -0600
From: Stephen Cavan <paddockwood at sk.sympatico.ca>
Subject: peat smoked malt

>Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 08:24:06 -0500
>From: Rod Prather <rodpr at iquest.net>
>Subject: Smoke Peated v.s. Smoked (was liquid smoke)

>So what is the difference.  I thought the smoked peated malt was used in
>Scotch Ale.  I have also heard that anything over 3% to 5% will definately
>mess up your brew.  Being a Scotch lover, I have particular fancy for a true
>smoky scotch ale.

As a rule Scotch Ale does not use Peat smoked malt. It can be very
interesting in a Porter, and last year a Porter with 5% peated malt won
first prize in Edmonton, I believe. I made a Stout using just peated
malt as base malt, and discovered two reactions: love it or hate it.
When I racked it, I thought I had encountered a new type of infection.
The smell was horrid, but then I realised it was just peat. I served
this Stout at a conference, and warned people that they might only wish
to sniff it. Of the 5 brews I passed around, only this one came back for
seconds! If you like single malt Scotch, you might really like this
Peated Stout.

Cheers, Steve


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Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 08:30:27 -0500
From: Rod Prather <rodpr at iquest.net>
Subject: To Al K on acronyms

Please forgive me for believing you were an acronym ,AIK, of beer processing
instead of and ICON of the HBD.





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Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 09:17:11 -0500
From: Rod Prather <rodpr at iquest.net>
Subject: Re: Fries with that beer, Sir

>Al wondered about the "French" in french fries.  My understanding is as
follows:
>French fries are actually French-cut fried potatoes.

>I'd wager the modern day "french fry" was invented in the US of A.

Being a much better chef than a brewer, I have a bit on that.  I can't find
the reference.  French fries were originally Pomme Frits and are definately
a french invention.  The real ones are similar to the puffed up thin sliced
wedges found in BW3's and in some of the "upscale" hamburger joints.  They
are made by thin slicing the potatoes lengthwise in to wedges and immersing
them in ice water prior to frying in hot fat when they puff from the steam.
McDonald's sells the bastardized americanization of the original.  So, pass
me another IPA as we fly back to the topic at hand.







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Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 11:29:38 -0500
From: Lee Menegoni <Lee.Menegoni at digital.com>
Subject: Legal status of homebrewing and AHA

Steve Jackson posted:
 ...  Ditto for legalization efforts, since most of us live in states
where our hobby is legal...

Homebrewing may be legal in most states but possession of outside the
home,transporting home brew or , holding competitions is either illegal
or a violation of liquor commission policy in many states.   

Lee Menegoni
Compaq Computer Inc.
Phone: 978-506-6034
DTN: 226-6034
email: Lee.Menegoni at Compaq.Com



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Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 11:04:09 -0600
From: plutchak at lothlorien.ncsa.uiuc.edu (Joel Plutchak)
Subject: Re: Acronyms?  Is there a FAQ somewhere.

In HBD #2901, Rod Prather wrote:
> Does anyone have a FAQ on this echo and acronyms used with their meanings.
 ...
> Examples:  CAP, FWH, AOB, AIK, NHC, BJCP...

   I'll leave the rest to somebody else, but AIK stands for
Artificial Intelligence Korzonas.  It's a highly sophisticated
AI program that takes the HBD and other brewing information as
input, synthesizes it, and outputs high volumes of good brewing
advice and the occasional batch of beer.
- --
Joel Plutchak <plutchak at ncsa.uiuc.edu>
A couple hundred miles SW of Jeff Renner and about 100 miles
due south of AIK.  (Don't hurt me, Al! :-)

P.S. To the janitors: the digest heading says to send submissions
to post@hbd.org, while the web page and the reply-to mail header
says to use homebrew at hbd.org.  Which is correct and/or preferred? 


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Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 11:57:54 -0600
From: ThE GrEaT BrEwHoLiO <skotrat at wwa.com>
Subject: Paul Gatza/Brian Rezac and the AHA board

Hi all, 

I would like to thank Paul Gatza for posting to the HBD and also responding
to my personal email so promptly. Perhaps now that this line of
communication is open we as a homebrewing collective can start suggesting to
Paul, Brian and the Board things that we all feel that the AHA is doing
correctly, incorrectly. Or for that matter start using Paul as a figure to
give ideas for change to.

We have heard so much about Paul and Brian being great guys (I know for one
that Brian is a fantastic guy with his head in the right place). So let's
see if they can get something done. 

The HBD is a powerful brewing force so what better a place to grab ideas for
the AHA?

C'ya

 -Scott "this message is dedicated to my new special HBD email friend" Abene

ThE-HoMe-BrEw-RaT
Scott Abene <skotrat at mediaone.net>
http://skotrat.dynip.com/skotrat (the Homebrew "Beer Slut" page)

"The More I know About Cathy Ewing, The More The AHA SUCKS"



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Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 09:56:49 -0800
From: "Greg Lorton" <glorton at cts.com>
Subject: Badger's Medieval Ale Recipe

Greetings!

Back in August (HBD #2814), Badger Roullett posted an old recipe for
housewives on how to make beer.  His quoted recipe was...

<snip>
In a reprint of an old book for housewives (yes, its true. Women did MOST of
the brewing in period) that contains a section brewing there is a
description of brew day that i would like to throw past you....

Here is a typical brewing day...
(only the first runnings are mentioned.small beer omitted)
 - grind your grain, and set to boil your mash water
 - put half of your grain in your mash vessal
 - pour bit by bit "with scoops or pails" the boiling liquor over the malt,
and stir
 - add rest of malt
 - let stand for an hour or more
 - "let the first liquor run gently from the malt"
 - put into boiling vessel, and add hops
 - boil for an hour or more
 - drain thru a sieve to catch hops
 - cool overnight
 - pitch Ale Barm (yeast essentially)

<snip>

Badger was curious how the reverse set of mashing temperatures (first high,
then low) would affect the beer.  Intrigued by it, I tried his procedures
for an old ale.  I brewed a 3-gallon batch in October with this recipe, and
then three weeks later, a second 3-gallon batch with a conventional double
infusion mash.  I used British pale malt (86%), some 60L crystal (5%), a
little chocolate malt (3%), peated barley (3%), and flaked barley (3%).  The
amount of grain (9 1/4 pounds) was designed to give an OG of 1.073, assuming
80% extraction efficiency.  Both worts were boiled for one hour with an
ounce of Kent Golding pellets added at first wort, 1/4 ounce added at 30
minutes, and 1/4 ounce at 15 minutes before the end of the boil.  (IBUs
calculated at about 33)  I used Wyeast London Ale yeast (#1028) for the
fermentation.  Both beers were fermented for 8 days in primary and 14 days
in secondary.  Fermentation temperatures ranged between 60 and 65F for both
beers.

With the "medieval" recipe above, the highest temperature reached was 159F.
There was quite a bit of cooling (more than I expected) as the boiling water
heated up the grain and the kettle, and I added the water slowly (over about
15 minutes) to make sure that the mash didn't get much hotter than 160F.
After letting it sit for an hour, the temperature dropped to 151F.  I then
added the other half of the grain, and the temperature dropped to 144F.
Over the next 45 minutes the temperature dropped to 142F.  The OG was 1.071.

The second batch (using my standard double infusion mashing) included a
25-minute protein rest (127F) and an 90-minute saccharification step at
154F.  The OG was 1.069.

The final gravity of the "medieval" recipe was 1.019 (71% apparent
attenuation), while it was 1.027 (61% apparent attenuation) for the
"conventional" recipe.

My wife and I did a side by side taste test yesterday.  The "conventional"
recipe had been in the bottle for three weeks, and the "medieval" recipe for
six.  The "conventional" recipe tastes like a light version of a barley
wine, as would be expected, with a faint, pleasant  smoky character.  It has
a nice malty flavor and aroma, and a medium body.  There wasn't much of a
head (damn protein rest!).

The "medieval" recipe is lighter in body, has a much more pronounced
alcoholic flavor and warmth, and has noticeable spicy and grainy flavors.
It's less malty and the smoky character is more apparent.  The carbonation
is higher, and it retained a nice head.

In essence, we tried to keep as many variables constant, except for the
mashing procedure.  It seems that Badger's recipe resulted in a more fully
attenuated beer.  The first step of the mash allowed the alpha amylase to
break down the starches into a lot of dextrins, and the second step added a
lot of fresh beta amylase to convert much of the dextrins to fermentable
sugars.

Did anyone else take on Badger's challenge?

Greg Lorton
Carlsbad, CA

Go 'Cats!  Beat the Cornhuskers!!!!



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Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 11:11:36 -0800
From: Badger Roullett <branderr at microsoft.com>
Subject: (R) Paul Gatza's fable

Steve Jackson Said about Subject: Paul Gatza's fable

>I wanted to express my appreciation to Paul Gatza for his entertaining
>little fable on the past, present and future of the AHA.

 I would also like to agree with Steve here, and commend Paul for his
excellent post...

>The biggest challenge the AHA is going to face is providing something
>else to make the cost of a membership worthwhile. Very few people are
>going to the GABF, so the members-only tasting and reduced admission
>fee perks don't mean anything to most of us. 

>As I said, I really don't have a suggestion for what that "something
> else" is. All I know is, until that something else is found to add
> value to an AHA membership

Hmmm.... maybe this would be a good forum to let paul know just what he
could add to the "perks" list.  I am not a member, and I also use other
magazines. (brewing ones, you dirty minded old coots!!)  BT is far and away
the best (IMNSHO), and I rather enjoy BYO for its articles.  Getting Zymurgy
is out, i have two magazines already.

What would HBD'ers suggest for spiffs?  As a favor to Paul, and in the
spirit of good will, lets leave out the Acrimonius Diatribes, and Critisisms
in favor of Constructive Advice.

>Ditto for legalization efforts, since most of us live in states where our
hobby is legal.

I think this is an important task of the AHA, and I appreciate them for it.
Those that have it legal should appreciate it, since they might not have the
legal right to do it..  (we'd probably do it anyway :) but then we would
have to be a bit more quiet about it... which would suck! I love talking
Beer..)   How many states haven't got it?

*********************************************
Brander Roullett aka Badger (Seattle, WA)
Brewing Page: http://www.nwlink.com/~badger/badgbeer.html
Badgers Brewing Bookstore: http://www.nwlink.com/~badger/brewbook.html



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Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 14:28:57 -0500 (EST)
From: pbabcock <pbabcock at mail.oeonline.com>
Subject: Addressing the Digest

Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your lager...

Joel Plutchak writes:

> P.S. To the janitors: the digest heading says to send submissions
> to post@hbd.org, while the web page and the reply-to mail header
> says to use homebrew at hbd.org.  Which is correct and/or preferred?

They are interchangeable. Use whichever YOU prefer!

 -p



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---