---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com


Contents:
  Beer Kit ("Steven J. Owens")
  re: RIMS ramp time (RobertJ)
  Re: soap (Jeff Renner)
  Re: RIMS ramp time & CAP (Jeff Renner)
  Soap ("George De Piro")
  Christmas Bounty ("Mark Vernon")
  Yeast starters ("George De Piro")
  yet more mills (Jack Schmidling)
  RE: 7oz. bottles (TDBEER)
  Mills (Dan Listermann)
  Yeast Culturing, Honey, Autoclaving, etc... (ALAN KEITH MEEKER)
  Adjustable Mills (Alan McKay)
  Canadian Maltsters (Alan McKay)
  OMMEGANG, MILLS, (Jack Schmidling)
  Fwd: Re: Assistance with instructions (not junk mail) ("Lucas Rice")
  The effects of modification on mash recipe formulation. (TO RIDE, SHOOT STRAIGHT, AND SPEAK THE TRUTH)
  new belgium brewing co. (JPullum127)
  Half-filled Bottles ("David R. Burley")
  architect named Schmid (Scott Murman)
  Experience with Whitelabs Trappist? (Dan Cole)
  5 Gal. carboy too much for 1 gallon batch? (Mike Beatty)
  re: Buggy Malt (David Lamotte)
  CO update: Part Duex (Hmbrwrpete)
  Mills & Fridges (Kyle Druey)
  6-pack carriers (TPuskar)


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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 00:00:54 -0800 (PST)
From: "Steven J. Owens" <puff at netcom.com>
Subject: Beer Kit

Hey kids,

     I know this is a bit of a low-end question, considering the
normal traffic on this list :-), but...

     I'm in unknown lands (Pasadena, CA) and without my brewing setup,
which is back on the east coast.  One of these days I'll make it down
to the Maltose Falcons monthly meeting; I'm thinking of buying some
equipment to set up one of my friends who moved out here permanently.
Thought I'd bounce my shopping list off the list and see if I'm
missing anything.

Consumables:
     Malt Extract
     Hops
     Specialty Grains 
     Yeast Packets

Boiling Equipment:
     Large stainless steel pot (3 gallons?)
     Lid for pot
     Large Spatula

     Measuring Cup
     Weighing Scale
     Mesh bags (several) for specialty grains & hops

Fermentation Equipment:
     5 gallon carboy
     Funnel for carboy
     Airlock for carboy
     Plug for Carboy
     Spare Carboy for racking off?

Bottling Equipment:
     Siphon (hose & straight piece, clip for anchoring hose)
     Bottling bucket (or spare carboy & siphon)
     Bottle-Capper
     Bottle-Cap blanks


The above assumes, of course, that he's not going to do full-mash
brewing, which is probably a valid assumption.  If he did, presumably
he'd need a second pot, and some sort of filtration system.

I haven't done any full-mash (or is "all-grain" a better term?)
brewing myself yet, but I'll be exploring it sometime in the near
future.  Here's a question; is it okay to use some sort of mesh bag
for full-mash brewing instead of a filter?

Steven J. Owens
puff at netcom.com


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Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 08:38:40 -0500
From: RobertJ <pbsys at pbsbeer.com>
Subject: re: RIMS ramp time

"RZUK" <rzuk at IX.netcom.com> wrote:

If I start with 1 qt/LB water in mash for the 100 F rest and add 1/2 qt/LB
200 F additional water to kick start the ramp time what is the upside and
downside of this procedure?
- ------

In my experience, adding 1/2 qt per lb of 205F water will raise a 121F mash
to about 145-6F. The only negative to this procedure is that you will have
a thin mash during sachrification. A thin mash will tend to give a higher
Final Gravity. In my opinion this would only make a difference in certain
styles and can be somewhat compensated for with low mash temp and yeast
selection

Bob
Precision Brewing Systems URL http://www.pbsbeer.com


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Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 09:51:51 -0500
From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu>
Subject: Re: soap

"George De Piro" <gdepiro at fcc.net> wrote:

>yes, that is
>how soap is made (fat, usually from a vegetable source, is reacted with
>caustic).

I'm pretty sure the vast majority of soap made in the US is made from
animal fat; at least it was when I worked two summers at Proctor and Gamble
back in the mid 60's).  Proctor & Gamble and Armour got started in
historically big meat packing cities (Cincinnati and Chicago) due to the
low cost and availabilty of fats.  Palmolive became famous for its
vegetable soap (palm and olive oils, get it?  Many people have never
thought of it), but I suspect that even it was (is?) made largely with
animal fat.  Vegetable fats are more costly than animal fats.

BTW, soap making is another of my (minor) hobbies, and I know from HBD that
other homebrewers make it as well.  I think it has the same
make-it-yourself appeal.

Jeff

 -=-=-=-=-
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan c/o nerenner at umich.edu
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943. 




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Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 10:26:36 -0500
From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu>
Subject: Re: RIMS ramp time & CAP

Bob Z "RZUK" <rzuk at IX.netcom.com> is concerned that he may be spending too
much time in protein rest country for the good of his modern malts:
>My ramp time is 1.75
>degrees/min. If I use a 100 F rest and the next rest is 140 F it will take
>23 min getting there. Perhaps this is too much time in the 122 F corridor if
>I want to avoid the 122 F point.  What are my options?

This is my SOP.  I think that it offers the best of both worlds.  The mash
passes through all of those good temperatures but doesn't spend too much
time there.

>If I start with 1 qt/LB water in mash for the 100 F rest and add 1/2 qt/LB
>200 F additional water to kick start the ramp time what is the upside and
>downside of this procedure ?

I can't say for sure, but it is certainly an option I have used.

And he asks:

>I am planning to brew a Classic American Pilsner -ref  J. Renner. If I use 2
>row brewers malt will I fall out of style. I suppose it will not be
>representative of pre-prohibition but what is with modern malts.
>What would be a good step mash profile for such a brew ?

George Fix wrote recently in Judge Net Digest that he has come to prefer
brewing CAPs with 2-row, feeling that they are a little more refined.  So
you have it from a good authority that it works well.  He has also come to
not use Cluster for bittering for the same reason, but acknowledges that
some may prefer either or both.  I think I may be one of those, although
I've never done side-by-side comparisons.  Perhaps I like the "rusticity "
of 6-row and Cluster.  Two CAPs made with 2-row I've had from other brewers
seemed a little lacking in character.

Up until now I've stuck with mashing in at 100F and ramping up to 140F,
resting for 15-30 minutes, then 158 for 15-30 minutes, then mashout at 170.
However, for a recent all-malt Vienna, I tried a 149F mashin and rest, then
boosted to 158, then 170.  This is a schedule that another brewer reported
seeing at a large German brewery.  My first rest fell to 144 over 30
minutes.  I ended up with more attenuation than I had wanted for a Vienna
(1.051-1.012), but it produced a very good, clear beer.  I think I will use
this on my next CAP (in which I will try rice rather than corn, just to see
what it does), but I will reduce my OG from my usual 1.048 to 1.045 so I
don't have too much alcohol.  That Vienna tastes great but it packs a
little more punch than I want for a drinking beer.

Good luck with the CAP.

Jeff

 -=-=-=-=-
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan c/o nerenner at umich.edu
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943. 




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Date: Sat, 26 Dec 98 10:33:47 PST
From: "George De Piro" <gdepiro at fcc.net>
Subject: Soap

Hi all,

Jeff Renner corrects my statement about soap usually being made
from vegetable sources.  He also says:

"BTW, soap making is another of my (minor) hobbies, and I know
from HBD that other homebrewers make it as well.  I think it has
the same make-it-yourself appeal."


As I implied in my original post, soap making can be fun, but it
is best not to make it from your own lipids.  Be careful when
handling caustic!

Have fun!

George de Piro  (Nyack, NY)


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Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 10:10:03 -0600
From: "Mark Vernon" <mkv at netins.net>
Subject: Christmas Bounty

Seasons Greetings fellow beer lovers. I hope the holidays were as good to
you as they were to me. My wife (gotta love her) gave me two great beer
gifts, a Thermostat for my chest freezer and an Automatic brand  adjustable
malt mill. With these two new items I have a few questions:
1) Does anyone out there have one of these Automatic adjustable malt mills?
And if so what setting are you using, any good/bad experiences, fixes or
tweaks you have found would be greatly appreciated.
2) Now that I have a thermostat I want to lager - so who has a good All
Grain recipe and schedule for a Marzen or Oktoberfest that they would be
willing to share? Any tips or pointers on lagering will be greatly
appreciated (my first attempt)

TIA (god I hate those little abbrv.)

Mark Vernon
mkv at netins.net




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Date: Sat, 26 Dec 98 11:07:17 PST
From: "George De Piro" <gdepiro at fcc.net>
Subject: Yeast starters

Hi all,

Fred asks some general questions about yeast starters.  He wonders
if he can achieve better yeast growth through frequent periodic
aeration without contaminating the starter.  He also wonders how he
will be able to taste the difference between slight contamination and
the "normal" flavors of a high-growth yeast starter.

Periodic aeration of the starter will increase yeast growth.  You must
be sure that there is fermentable material for the yeast, though, or the
aeration will do more harm than good.  When yeast are exposed to
oxygen they will try to grow.  If there are no fermentables around they
will use their glycogen reserves for energy.  They could quickly starve
themselves in this way.

If you pump filtered air into a starter solution you will be creating
positive pressure n the vessel.  This actually helps to keep the
atmosphere in the vessel clean, so contamination should be less of
an issue.  I have had good results simply closing the starter vessel
with foil and a loose rubber band and maintaining air flow to ensure
that nothing can drift in.  If you are more paranoid you can use a
stopper with two holes drilled in it to allow air in through a tube and
out through an airlock.

Constant agitation of the starter will really help increase yeast growth,
too.

While the flavor of a high-growth yeast starter is not as pleasant as
beer, it is not the same as a contaminated beer.  Common flavors
associated with contamination are phenolic (spicy, smoky, burnt
plastic, medicine, swimming pool), musty/moldy (rare), and vegetal
(over-cooked or rotten produce, ketchup).

The flavors associated with highly aerated starters are high fusel
alcohols (fruity, harshly alcoholic, perhaps solventy), esters (ethyl
acetate (nail polish remover), very fruity), diacetyl (butter).  As you 
can
see, the flavors of each are quite different.

Diacetyl can be caused by a pediococcus infection, but if you
havent had that problem in your brewery before, assume it is from
high yeast growth and continue.  Fortune favors the bold (of course,
LMDA plates can end the guess work...)

Have fun!

George de Piro  (Nyack, NY)


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Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 22:24:02 -0800
From: Jack Schmidling <arf at mc.net>
Subject: yet more mills

"George De Piro" <gdepiro at fcc.net>

"Actually, the efficiency of the crush is quite easily measured, and
most certainly can effect the beer's character.  Too course a crush
will yield low extract.  Anybody with a hydrometer can measure that...

I was not questioning the procedure.  I was questioning the ability
to measure the difference in gravity of two worts made from, 
(for example) the same malt run through a fixed mill and one tweeked to
your heart's content.  Not only the ability to measure the gravity
on our crude instruments but as the difference (if any) will be 
so slight as to be totally unreliable and unrepeatable.

Saying too coarse a crush will yield low extract is saying the 
obvious.  What you must prove is that a fixed mill produces a
crush that is "too" coarse. 

It is my experience that as often as not the adjustment provides 
the ability to screw up the crush.

"  How significant these effects are is up to the consumer
of the beer.

But if you are going to blame a fixed mill for the effects, you need
to quantify things a little better than that.

"Please explain how a gap of fixed size can be perfect for crushing
grains of various sizes....

Who said "perfect"?  I said optimized, i.e. good enough that you can
not measure or detect any difference in the end product.

One thing occurs to me is the fact that no one else making mills uses 
the coarse knurl that we use on the rollers and this might just be the
serendipitous reason it works so well on so many different types of
malt, while other mills have to be diddled with to produce an
equivalent crush.

" Water chemistry is probably the least of all the causes of poor 
extraction....

Agreed but it fills pages and pages of books and articles and provides
all those nice folks something to write about.

" and sparging really isn't all that tough to master.

Neither is riding a bicicle once you master it but that does not
make falling off feel any better.  I would, however, rate it as less
critical than the actual mashing which also is pretty simple stuff.

"I will agree with Jack about the variability of malt being a factor,
although in general it has not been a problem for me......

No problem at all once one figures out who makes the lousy malt and
stops buying it.  Unfortunately, the beginner does not have that
advantage and usually buys the pits and then complains about the
crush.

"Wolfgang Kunze, in _Technology Brewing and Malting_ talks a
bit about when to mill finely, when to mill
coarsely, and mentions that the grist quality effects the mashing
process, brewhouse yield, fermentation, beer filterability, beer
color, taste and overall character.

Now ask him how that all extrapolates down to a 5 or ten gallon 
batch.  Everything commercial experts have to say is no doubt
true to the letter but much of it irrelevant to homebrewing. 

js
- -- 

Visit our WEB pages:     http://user.mc.net/arf

ASTROPHOTO OF THE WEEK..... New Every Monday




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Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 12:00:05 EST
From: TDBEER at aol.com
Subject: RE: 7oz. bottles

Another source of 7oz. bottles is Corona "Coronita" bottles.  They are 7oz.
pry off caps.  Only problem is the direct printing on the bottle.  The clear
bottles are nice for viewing the clarity of beer and yeast settling.  I used
them for my Lambic style and meads.

Tony DeMarse,  Greeley CO


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Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 12:55:22 -0500
From: Dan Listermann <72723.1707 at compuserve.com>
Subject: Mills

Jim Liddel writes:<  Also I was reminded about how abrasive grain is to
aluminum. 

The original Listemann mill our club had had an aluminum deflector plate 

inside that was literally ground away by the malt passing by it. >

There seems to have been a misinterpretion of what happened to the mill 
Jim
is takling about.  The grain did not abrade the deflector plate, the 
roller
did.  The early (very early) mills had a deflector plate that was rather
long.  The weight of the grain would evidentlty bend the plate so it
touched the roller which wore at the plates underside.  Except for the
aluminum chips getting into the grist ( fairly harmless), it was a self
limiting problem.  The plate would wear until it no longer touched the
roller.  After this problem was discovered ( years ago ),the plate was
shortened.  There are thousands of Philmills out there and I can't 
remember
the last time someone had a deflector plate problem.

Dan Listermann    dan at listermann.com

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Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 15:58:29 -0500 (EST)
From: ALAN KEITH MEEKER <ameeker at welchlink.welch.jhu.edu>
Subject: Yeast Culturing, Honey, Autoclaving, etc...

There were some posts last go around which may benefit from some
corrections:

AUTOCLAVING:
>For glassware, sure you can spend many hard earned dollars on "lab"
>quality glassware.  But these fruit juice glasses with twist caps work
>great, get a couple of different sizes for step ups.  I have used
>growlers
>with fair success in the latter stages, but dont cap them off after you 
>have
>autoclaved them a few times.  The clear glass ones  seem to have a
>tendency
>to blow the bottom off at a certain psi...

This sounds like the autoclaving is not being done properly. Either that
or these containers may be experiencing temperature shocks during
cooling which may break the container. I've seen this happen on neumerous
occasions. Bottles usually break at their bases as they cool, probably
because of the difference in glass thickness between the base and the side
walls. One way to help prevent this is to autoclave bottles in a pan
containing an inch or two of water. The water acts to insulate the glass
from (relatively) rapid temperature changes during cooling. Try to disturb
the bottles as little as possible when they are cooling. Another 
alternative is to switch to pyrex containers such as labware flasks, etc.
These will not break and have the added benefit of being able to be
"crash-cooled" for those of us impatient types! Pressure should not make a
difference unless the containers are CLOSED. Autoclaving CLOSED containers
defeats the purpose of using the autoclave in the first place. Surfaces
must be exposed to the wet heat of the autoclave or the pressure-cooker
for sterilization to occur. Autoclaving closed glass containers is a
dangerous business - you could be making bottle bombs of the worst sort!
One more possibility is the rate of decompression - even open containers
can blow due to pressure changes if the pressure is released too quickly
at the end of a run. Especially for liquids, if the pressure is not
released gradually the liquid will immediately begin to boil which can
cause boil-overs and container breakage. This problem is exacerbated if
the opening of the container is restricted in some way.

YEAST AGAR SLANTS:
> Slants are a waste - IMHO - for storage, you need to redo them fairly
>often to
>keep the strain viable, and cleaning/reusing the tubes is painful...

In my experience, I have seen no apparant loss of viability from slants
stored at 4 deg C (refrigerator temps) for over one year. This has been
true of all the yeast strains I have examined so far (1056, 1084, 1098,
1272, 3056, 2565, EC1118). Of course, with the exception of the
champagne strain these are all ale strains so I can make no claims with
regards to lager yeasts.To keep costs down I make my slants in 1 dram
(4 ml) screw-cap vials. They are also easy to store as they are fairly
small. My slants are made with agar and contain 10% Yeast Extract, 20%
Peptone, and 10% Dextrose (Glucose).

HONEY USE:
>Adding to the kettle is easy but spores will not be killed, some
>spores survive autoclaving, not many but some.  

NO spores should survive autoclaving, if it is done properly. This is the
main reason for using the autoclave - to kill off all bacterial endospores
present. If spores are surviving then (1) the container is closed (not
exposed to the wet heat), or (2) the combination of temp/pressure is not
correct (in this respect it is most important to be able to monitor the
temperature as well as the pressure) a combination of 121 deg C and 15 psi
is usually employed, or (3) the contact time is not long enough. This is
especially important for cold objects - which require time over and above
the time at which the chamber temperature reaches 121 deg C - to warm up.
For example, a 1 litre bottle of fluid needs to be autoclaved for 25
minutes after the chamber reaches 121 deg while a 4 litre container will
require an hour for sterilization.   


HONEY INFO:
>There is a place in California, National Honey Board or something 
>like that that has info on brewing with honey. 

There are several good sources on the web of honey and its uses, many
stemming from the mead community. If anyone wants some links e-mail me and
I'll be happy dig them out for you...


HAPPY NEW YEAR ALL!

 -Alan Meeker
Baltimore, MD



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Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 19:19:27 -0500
From: Alan McKay <amckay at mail.magma.ca>
Subject: Adjustable Mills

Miracles never cease, I can't agree with Jack more :

George DePiro says :
"     2.  In my experience one of the most common causes of poor
     extraction efficiency is poorly crushed malt.  While water
     chemistry and sparging technique play a role in extraction
     efficiency, they are secondary to a proper crush.
 
To which Jack responds :

As a manufacturer of both milling and lautering equipment, I could
not disagree with you more.  Once one gets out of the Corona class,
varying the crush is tweeking at the margins.  Virtually every
customer I have ever talked to with yield problems blamed on the
mill, eventually found that the problem was either the malt or 
the lauter system or process.  I would put the greatest burden
for variability on the malt, in particular, bottom end American
malt.

And I say :

In all of my tweaking of my own brewery, I've found that most
variables only increase my efficiency slightly.  The one variable
I find that has a HUGE influence is lautering equipment.  I've
made several really large jumps in efficiency by redesigning
my  lauter tun.  I've switched between several mills (Jack's,
Valley, and Phil) and have noticed no appreciable difference
in crush or extraction.  Mind you, I've never been in "the
Corona class" ;-)

cheers,
 -Alan

- --
   "Brewers make wort, yeast makes beer"
    - Dave Miller's Homebrewing Guide
http://www.magma.ca/~bodnsatz/brew/tips/


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Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 19:32:56 -0500
From: Alan McKay <amckay at mail.magma.ca>
Subject: Canadian Maltsters

Joe Rolfe wrote the following :

With one minor change "bottom end North American malt" - now Jack, 
your [sic] leaving out our fine maltsters from north of the 
boarder;).... There is alot of crappy malt out there.  Some returned 
by micros that found it unacceptable.  And where do you think it 
ends up, on a bargin to some homebrewers. It happens alot more than 
you think. I wont name names ( it is Christmas and I will be nice 
for a change) here but they are out there.

And my response :

Sorry, but I can't leave this untouched.  You are implying that
we're all a bunch of kniving bastards up here "north of the board".
I've been using Canada Malting products almost exclusively, and
have been nothing but completely thrilled with them.  Very good
price, very good product.  I've also used some of the Bioriginal
malt (organic) from Saskatchewan, and have had only good experiences
and products there, too.

I can't let you drop a blanket statement like that without 
asking you to be more specific.  That's just far to nebulous
left as-is.

cheers,
 -Alan

- --
   "Brewers make wort, yeast makes beer"
    - Dave Miller's Homebrewing Guide
http://www.magma.ca/~bodnsatz/brew/tips/


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Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 17:34:02 -0800
From: Jack Schmidling <arf at mc.net>
Subject: OMMEGANG, MILLS, 

Joe Rolfe <onbc at shore.net>


"With one minor change "bottom end North American malt" - now Jack, your
leaving out our fine maltsters from north of the boarder;).... 

Actually, the worst are American as in U.S. and I have little 
experience with Canadian malt and assume it is all crushed with
that nice Canadian mill.

Here is an anecdote for the files:  I had been using malt from a
U.S. maltster and when developing the MM, I assumed that if it
crushed this stuff, I would have covered most of the market.

Well, after shipping a few mills, I ran out of malt and bought
another bag and it just rolled around for the ride and would not
pass through the rollers.  It seemed a lot more polished in addition
to being larger than the last bag.

I called the maltster and was informed that the particular lot was 
not up to their specs and they just put it aside for homebrewers.  
When I pointed out that the homebrewer, using more primitive milling
equipment, had even tighter constraints than the commercial brewer,
he was sort of at a loss for words.

Some time later, I worked out a mill that only used one knurled roller
and the other was smooth, to appeal to the anal folks.  It worked 
great on the current bag but not at all on the next.  So I gave up
on the project and looked for the coarsest knurl on earth and never
looked back.

That's the mechanical side of it.  Just so happens that my extract
yield went from random low 20's to never less than 30 when I switched
to Belgian malt and again, I have never looked back.

When someone calls complaining about the yield, I tell them to make
the next batch with Belgian malt and call me back if they still have
a problem.  

Guess what? 

No one ever has called back. 

js

p.s.  I would love to say some very profound things about ommagang
but I haven't even a clue what it means.

jjs


- -- 

Visit our WEB pages:     http://user.mc.net/arf

ASTROPHOTO OF THE WEEK..... New Every Monday




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Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 00:57:32 PST
From: "Lucas Rice" <lucas_steph_rice at hotmail.com>
Subject: Fwd: Re: Assistance with instructions (not junk mail)

Dear sir/ma'am,

   I am writing this email in hopes that you can help me.  Mr. Dave 
Draper gave me your email address in order to get some instructions on 
brewing with the Mr. Beer homebrew kit.
   I am in the military, and was recently sent to the Republic of Korea.  
Unfortunately in the move, the instructions for my brewkit were lost and 
I am stuck with ony Korean beer (an trust me that has very little to 
offer).  I am hoping you can either send me another copy of the 
instrcutions and let me know where I can find them.  I am hoping to brew 
soonest to help crave this temptation for a "micro-beer."
   I would appreciate any assistance you can offer.  I thank you in 
advance and wish you the happiest of holidays.  

Lucas Rice

P.S.  I have attached Mr. Dave Draper's response to my initial email.


>
>Greetings Lucas,
>
>Unfortunately I know nothing about Mr Beer kits, having never used 
>one and not being affiliated with the company in any way.  I *can* 
>however recommend a great group you can call on for help, namely 
>the Homebrew Digest.  This is an email mailing list with thousands 
>of subscribers who have a vast amount of experience in brewing, 
>and there will almost certainly be someone who can give you the 
>info you need.  Simply send your email message to post@hbd.org 
>and explain as you have to me what your difficulty is, and be sure 
>to include the email address where you can be reached, and ask 
>for private replies-- within a couple of days I am sure someone who 
>knows your answers will be in touch.
>
>Wishing you the happiest of holidays and good luck in your quest,
>
>Dave in Dallas (till the new year, then in Houston)
>Dave Draper, UTDallas Geosciences until 12/31/98, then
>NASA Johnson Space Center, Houston. New contact info soon.
>(Apologies for the Netzero ads tacked onto my messages... 
>There is nothing I can do to stop it.)


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com


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Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 02:49:18 -0800
From: sguernes at ptdoa1.al.intel.com (TO RIDE, SHOOT STRAIGHT, AND SPEAK THE TRUTH)
Subject: The effects of modification on mash recipe formulation.

	Greetings all!  Happy to be here.  I have been trying to research the
effects of modification during germination and how this effects optimum mash
schedules.  I understand that poorly modified malts particularly warrant a step
mash schedule, especially a protein rest.  But how much and what temp?  I can't
find any information for particular malts.  I bought a 55 lb bag of
Weyerman Light Munich Malt and have no idea how modified it is or how
modification is even expressed.  I know that early Munich malt was
undermodified and was one reason for the intensive triple-decoct but has it
modernized?  Does any one know of a good reference material for this?  Perhaps
the Fix Brewing Science book?

Thanks
Steve
new member
first post


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Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 09:25:13 EST
From: JPullum127 at aol.com
Subject: new belgium brewing co.

i got a nice christmas present of a 12 pack of the wonderfull abbey ale from
new belgium brewery  and
 also a six of a special beer from them called 1554 brussels style black ale.
very nice beer . jet black but very smmooth with a roasty maltiness that is
excellent. the bottle label said it was from a 1554 recipe book. a very nice
product
would anyone have any hints on how to clone this one. thanks marc


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Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 12:08:21 -0500
From: "David R. Burley" <Dave_Burley at compuserve.com>
Subject: Half-filled Bottles


Brewsters:

David Humes comments on the "counter-intuitiveness"  of having to
expect some yeast growth from the oxygen contained in the headspace
of the bottle of a naturally conditioned bottle. AlK has also objected to

the idea that we want yeast growth at this time ( with regard to my
recommendations on how to get reliable carbonation).  How else could
you explain the phenomena of AlK's  " double deaf" experiment in
which he confirmed the behavioir of a partialy filled bottle versus
an overfilled one by observing the head formation, if it wasn't oxygen
( and therefore,likely, yeast colony size)  dependent?

I agree with the German writers that it is necessary to have a certain
amount of active yeast to complete reliably the carbonation of the
beer in a naturally conditioned bottle. After the clarification of the
beer, somehow you need a certain colony size to finish the priming
sugar before the yeast flocculates and falls out of solution. Thus you
Have two competing reactions, flocculation and ceasing to carbonate
Versus metabolism of the sugar. Higher populations of yeast consume
the sugar before the yeast leave the scene.  Some yeast growth in the
primed beer in the German's and the homebrew case will guarantee the
reliable carbonation. That's how I explained the results to myself
long before I heard of the German rationalization of the effect. 


I use a different technique and that is to prime with an active krauesen
starter made up from priming sugar, 1 tlb malt extract ( to provide
FAN for yeast growth in the starter) and a small amount of yeast
and beer from the bottom of the secondary. Let the starter just reach
kraeusen - about 12 hours in my experience and bottle. See the archives.

The explanation that there was some use of the headspace oxygen
by the yeast is the only one that I could imagine could explain Al's
( and many other's) results. Once I switched to this kraeusen priming
starter technique, I do not recall the overfill problem. 


Hoppy New Beer!

Keep on brewin'


Dave Burley
Kinnelon, NJ 07405
103164.3202 at compuserve.com
Dave_Burley at compuserve.com  

Voice e-mail OK 


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Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 11:46:42 -0800 (PST)
From: Scott Murman <smurman at best.com>
Subject: architect named Schmid

Does anyone have info on a brewery architect named Schmid (German) who
supposedly built many of the breweries in the Chicago area.  Probally
around the turn of the last century.  Just found out he's closely
related to me.  TIA.

 -SM-




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Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 15:45:37 -0500
From: Dan Cole <dcole at roanoke.infi.net>
Subject: Experience with Whitelabs Trappist?

I just brewed a belgian Dubbel using the Whitelabs Trappist yeast and
wonder if anyone has had experience with this yeast (I've checked the
archives and didn't come up with anything).

A major question in my mind is the best temperature for this yeast. The
Whitelabs description says to keep it under 65F for best results. Reading
the classic beer style series on Belgian Ale, it suggests that the unique
flavors/aromas of several of the trappist ales are due to high fermentation
temperature. Does anyone know what the source of this yeast is and have any
experience with it (preferred temperature, etc.)

Dan Cole
Roanoke, VA
Star City Brewers' Guild: http://hbd.org/starcity/

>From Whitelabs web-site:

WLP500- Trappist Ale Yeast: 

>From one of the six Trappist breweries remaining in the world, this yeast
produces the distinctive fruitiness and plum characteristics. Excellent
 yeast
for high gravity beers, Belgian ales, dubbels and trippels. 

Attenuation: 73-78% 

Flocculation: Medium to low. 

Optimum Fermentation Temperature: should be held below 65 F for best
results.


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Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 18:27:30 +0000
From: Mike Beatty <mbeatty at ols.net>
Subject: 5 Gal. carboy too much for 1 gallon batch?

Hello all-

For Xmas, I received a number of "kits" allowing one to brew a 1 gallon
batch. The kits are fairly good, (DME, some crushed grains, hop
pellets), but I have not had much success in finding a 1.5/2 gallon
container to brew these in and was wondering if a 5 gallon carboy allows
too much headspace. If so, how detrimental will that be to the finished
product? Any suggestions on smaller containers that I can put an airlock
on?

TIA!
- -- 
Mike
 ________________________________________________
Adopt a Collie! Check out: <http://www.collie.net/~pcc>
______________________________________________
Do you believe in Macintosh? Please check out: 
<http://www.evangelist.macaddict.com/>


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Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 10:25:00 +1100
From: David Lamotte <lamotted at ozemail.com.au>
Subject: re: Buggy Malt

Ronald LaBorde has bugs in his malt, and while of course I have never
had bugs in mine, I did read about a brewer in an Aussie brewing
magazine.

They gassed the little criters by purging their malt bin with CO2,
which sent them to the top gasping for air.  A quick scoop and they
were gone.

Perhaps you should let your local shop know so that they can deal with
their problem.

David Lamotte
Brewing down under in Newcastle, NSW, Australia.



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Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 19:41:54 EST
From: Hmbrwrpete at aol.com
Subject: CO update: Part Duex

Happy Holidays to everyone!

Yes, you are detecting a spring in my step and a song in my heart! My basement
brewery is finished and everything I said I was implementing in my last post
has been implemented.

I fired up the burner and for 15 mins ran it with no kettle. No CO. I then put
on my new keg/boiler (thanks wife) with about 5 gals of cold water. Hey no odd
smell and no CO! I let this go for 15 mins while checking CO monitors in the
basement and the first floor. I then turned the burner up to almost 1/2 way
and watched for 30 mins. No CO!

It looks like I'm there. I think the fresh air pipe stationed less than 1ft
from the burner is the biggest help. I'll be christening the system New Years
day with a batch of IPA! And maybe the following week another attempt at
Kolsch, then some more Bitter, then a Munich Helles, then a...

Thanks too all who helped. If you came in late and want to know what the hell
I'm talking about just e-mail me.

Thanks again,
Pete Gottfried
Buffalo, NY

PS Any advice on drilling a hole in the keg for a screw in thermometer?


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Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 05:35:12 -0800
From: Kyle Druey <druey at ibm.net>
Subject: Mills & Fridges

Jim L. says:

>You don't need a JSP mill and a RIMS unit...

You sure don't, but if you are using RIMS it helps to be able to
optimize the crush via an adjustable roller mill.  Being able to adjust
the nip so that the husks are as whole as possible will help in avoiding
a stuck mash.  You can purchase a high quality adjustable roller mill
and motorize it for less than the JSP fixed gap mill.

Anyone have ideas on where to obtain a good beer fridge for less than
$200?

Kyle
Bakersfield, CA


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Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 20:57:05 EST
From: TPuskar at aol.com
Subject: 6-pack carriers

Does anyone know where I can get some blank 6-pack carriers?  I'd like to make
a couple of brews for a family reunion this summer and would like to make
labels and custom carriers.  I figure I'd need a couple dozen or so.

Thanks,

Tom Puskar
Howell, NJ


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